ObsidianButterfly
ObsidianButterfly
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- ObsidianButterfly
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Kill rate means absolutely nothing and does not show how strong a killer is. Case and point: Nurse and Blight have the lowest numbers, but are the strongest in the game.
Merchant only had a 70% because survivors kept going AFK or run into her on purpose to suicide on hook, which massively inflated the number higher than it should be.
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"Down the line"?
That could be YEARS before she is even playable again after these nerfs.
"Mitigate some issues"?
Yea, apparently people still wanting to play her despite how weak a killer she is counts as an issue to them. They are correcting that with nerfs so heavy handed they make Freddy wince.
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At this point, they might as well rework her into the Predator knock-off she looks like she was supposed to be. Give her invisibility and speed with some sort of ranged anti-loop while getting rid of the drones entirely.
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I agree.
Remove the drones and turn her into the Predator knock-off she was supposed to be. Give her Wraith-style invisibility and speed with a ranged anti-loop in the form of nets, nerve-toxin or something like that. I'm sure survivors will love having to deal with both Wraith and Clown's powers at the same time.
On a more serious note: I love Merchant, but at this point, if they can't balance her properly, then she needs to be overhauled.
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So how many years will Merchant have to live in F tier before she gets looked at again?
How long has Freddy been in F tier? It's been awhile.
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I didn't think it was possible to nerf a character to be worse than Freddy, yet BHVR continues to surprise me. Congratulations Freddy mains. He is no longer the worst killer in the game and has moved up to bottom D tier.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791451#Comment_3791451
I run Hex: Ruin and Surveillance. Ive seen it a decent bit, it definitely isnt meta, but saying "basically nobody runs it" is just wrong. Ever since SH: Pain Res and Pop Goes got nerfed/changed, Ive seen a lot more diverse regression builds; there still is a clear meta that a lot of people run but Ive seen more perks I havent seen in awhile get used more.
I find it really good on high mobility Killers like Blight or Billy because they can use the information insanely well; and Killers that can pressure multiple areas or slow map traversal for Survivors like Knight and Skull Merchant also make good use from it.
And even if a perk "does not get used at all", I think it still is part of the perk economy and should still be considered. Ideally if a perk overshadows other perks, the other perks should be buffed to be more in line with that perk… the issue with information perks like Call of Brine and Surveillance is that their specific niche is way harder to work with, you could buff Call of Brine, but how would you buff Surveillance?
And all of this is also just ignoring that you dont need Hex: Ruin here… I just used it as an example but Surge works well too.
You just admitted that CoB is terrible in every regard. It's regression sucks and its information sucks and isn't as reliable as Surveillance. If it's good enough as is, why does it never get used? Does the fact it does both automatically mean it should be garbage?
For the record, I'm not of the opinion it should be buffed. I would probably prefer it be changed to do something else. However, I simply do not agree with your logic and argument.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791420#Comment_3791420
When COB surpasses Surveillance or any regression perk, it is always related to its own base regression.
That kind of my point.
Call of Brine is currently seen as more of an information perk than a regression perk, and it's not that bad either on Generator kicking builds; the issue is if the regression gets buffed, people will use it for the regression, but the information still overshadows Surveillance.
Killers only have 4 perk slots. Why run Hex: Ruin and Surveillance when you can run Call of Brine (at 200% regression) and get more regression, better information, and free up a perk slot? This is the fundamental issue with Call of Brine. If you buff it, it provides too much value for a single perk slot; in fact, Ive been saying for prior to Patch 6.1.0, since Call of Brine even released.
Your entire argument becomes moot when you take into account basically nobody runs Ruin or Surveillance NOW. Ruin being a hex perk is reason enough not to run it (because hexes suck) and I've never once seen a killer use Surveillance (there are better info perks than it already). So saying "CoB will overshadow perks nobody uses anyway" is kind of weird.
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Apply directly to the forehead
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Not really.
I like Castlevania, one of my favorite IPs, but from what I've seen, I don't think I would enjoy how Dracula plays. His perks don't seem very good (maybe the chest one might see some use in certain builds). And I don't play Dredge or Nemesis, so the whole patch is kind of a nothing burger for me.
Also, Castlevania is owned by Konami, which is a garbage company like WotC are, so I have no interest in supporting anything they do anymore just like I ignored the DnD chapter.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784129#Comment_3784129
She has massively changed compared to 1.0 though.
If survivors don't interact with TVs, their condemned racks up and can be locked in with hook-lock. Survivors can't just ignore TVs anymore, that's the main point I'm making with this. Tapes have to be interacted with, therefore creating a interaction between killer power and survivors, unlike 1.0. It's also why Iridescent Tape is so weak.
Also, making flicker stronger won't really assist in chase much, just mindgames. If you want condemned to be next to nonexistant, she'd need something more to aid her chase.
It's still insanely easy to avoid stacks. I've gone entire games never touching a TV and never got above 5 stacks. The condemn isn't map wide unless she is using the add-on to make it affect all TVs (and the range per TV isn't big enough to always reach multiple gens). It's an unreliable mechanic that needs to be better because her chase ability is such garbage.
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Can someone explain how basekit Unbreakable was abused and didn't work out? I'm having a hard time understanding that. If killers are doing their job, a survivor shouldn't be on the ground long enough for them to get back up, right?
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I just want to play a couple of matches with my favorite killers in a 1v4 after getting home from the gym in the evening without having to wait 30-45 minutes for each one only to get stomped on by high prestige survivors way above my skill level in about 5-10 minutes.
I like 2v8, but it's lack of variety and the horrible effects it has on queue times needs addressing ASAP.
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@Caiman said:
Larian wants nothing further to do with D&D so I don't think they'd be open to collabs.
BG3 and everything in it belongs to WotC, not Larian. It would depend on them.
If there is a BG3 DnD collab, I would probably prefer Orin the Red over anyone else.
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Imagine if they release it in June.
That would be wild.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772583#Comment_3772583
Tweaks tend to be smaller number adjustments while updates tend to change how something works in a more significant way.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772582#Comment_3772582
Still absolutely happening! This is not a comprehensive list, there's much more coming that couldn't fit into this roadmap. We'll have more surprises in store when the updates are a little closer.
You guys completely butchered Skull Merchant's identity with the recent update. I sure hope you guys have way more than a few "tweaks" in store to fix the abomination you made her into.
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Lobby dodging is just a symptom of much larger problem.
Maybe they should be focused on fixing the disease instead of just treating the symptoms.
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They shouldn't have completely ruined her identity to turn her into what we have now. They should have doubled down on the area denial/zone lockdown defensive game plan. Let the survivors come to her and close the trap around them.
Not every killer needs to be chase focused.
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"Ask me anything, but we won't actually answer anything important"
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@UndeddJester said:
I'd love a complete animations pass. Mori's especially. Freddy's is thematically on point, but the weight of the hit is off.
You compare this:
https://youtu.be/N0YIOMgDRh8?si=JNDZ6UZ_t5rb5cek
To this:
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx4OSiJNb92yoyKPXKYDcA2VzLBEtk4Qdn?si=R3ujuLwTjLihwcOu
It's in the right ballpark, but the weight isn't there, and is something BHVR have gotten much better at in modern mori's.
I would also love to see Pig get unique hook and carry animations thematic to Amanda. Her small size was a key plot point of the SAW films, and the inclusion of Detective Hoffman was specifically to explain how someone as small as Amanda and old/frail as John could place 200lb men as deadweight into Jigsaw trials.
Keeping her in a lower profile by dragging survivors instead of carrying them, and then using a mechanical hook on a chain to hook survivors would make her more unique, and be thematically perfect.
I love this idea for Pig. Also, they need to hire Shawnee Smith to do some voice work.
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Legion's power is completely anti-synergistic with what's it's trying to do. It actively gets worse the moment a survivor is killed because it becomes exponentially harder to get its benefit.
It needs a change. I don't know about a full rework, but certainly some alterations to how it functions or the benefits it gives.
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She's bad. Condemn is a joke of a mechanic and her chase is terrible. Her map mobility is the only thing keeping her from being worse than Freddy. They really need to buff Condemn back to being an actual threat rather than a minor inconvenience.
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Skull Merchant needs to drop to B. Objectively, she's really just not that good anymore. Better than the ones in C+, but she really just doesn't compete with the others in B+.
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@Zakon05 said:
Look, there's really no nice way to say this. If you think that rework Sadako was fine and that she sucks now, you were being carried by how ridiculously strong she was against 90% of survivors in this game. You're asking to bring it back for the same reason survivors wish they could bring back all of their old stupid broken garbage like old Dead Hard and Circle of Healing. I feel very passionately about this because she's gone from one of my favorite killers to most hated killers to one of my favorites again.
Rework Sadako is one of the worst designs they have ever made. She was extremely flowcharty and braindead. You just spammed teleport to stack condemn on people. If you had the Mother's Comb, you got notified any time a survivor interacted with a TV, so you knew where they were and where to go to slap it out of their hands.
Her gameplay basically involved just picking one survivor and harassing them to make sure they can never interact with TVs while building condemned on them. Unless they weren't an absolutely cracked survivor, they were eventually going to make a mistake and go down and then die. Do this early enough and you could basically play the rest of the match without using your power at all, a 3v1 is an extremely hard for survivors to play against.
Survivors couldn't get tapes from TVs which were turned off, and they were always turned off because of how much she was teleport spamming. Survivors also can't see the auras of TVs like she can, so they had to just wander around the map to find one which wasn't turned off to get a tape, all while she's building condemn on them from her teleport spamming. Then they got a tape, she gets told where they are if she's running Mother's Comb or if she's just paying attention and notices a TV turn off by itself, then she runs over to hit them and there's a good chance they could be mori'ed right after that since destroying the tape built condemn.
She took significantly more effort to play against than to play as, especially since she herself had a low skill ceiling and skill floor. She had nothing other than flicker mindgames as a mechanic to get good with because of how much her macro game played itself for you. Go watch that video Otzdarva posted where he literally wins while playing one-handed because of how little effort it took.
Yet for all of this, she was terrible against great survivors who could actually loop you and were efficient with generators, since all they needed to do was hold a tape to be protected while they rushed gens and the member of their team she was targeting to keep from interacting with TVs threw every pallet on the map to delay her as long as possible. After a point she had no choice but to keep committing, because she had no condemn built on anybody else.
Before her rework she was one of my highest prestige killers at that time. I straight up abandoned her because I hated subjecting people to what an unfun experience it was to play against her. Meanwhile if you ever got a good survivor team, it was miserable in the opposite direction.
Sadako now, by comparison, is an excellently designed killer and likely the best designed macro play killer in the game. Building condemn is once again something the Sadako must put effort into, and survivors actually need to care about it. She takes effort and thought to play as and to play against. But the fact it takes effort and thought to play as her now makes me unsurprised that people who really liked the easy braindead version think she's useless.
Do you not realize how baffling your takes are?
You go and describe a bunch of stuff that made old Sadako bad, yet fail to notice she STILL has those same problems, yet now condemn is also bad as well. She still is terrible in chase, but now also can't fall back on a condemn strategy. It stacks too slowly and is way too easy to remove.
Even worse than that, YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE HOW MANY STACKS THE SURVIVORS HAVE! You can only see if they have ANY stack or not (and if they have full stacks).
You say survivors have to respect condemn now, yet you then go on to basically demonstrate how it was actually a threat in the past and now it is not. I've gone entire games never once clearing my condemned stacks and escaped, never even getting close to max. Provided the survivors aren't all collectively sharing a single brain cell, she is just not threatening.
She's not Freddy levels of bad, but calling her balanced or in a good state is just being disingenuous or you have an axe to grind.
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@Zakon05 said:
Sadako in her current iteration is basically as perfect as her inherent design will allow.
Condemn is no longer a mechanic survivors can ignore, the slugging issue is mostly gone and she's actually encouraged to hook people now to preserve condemn stacks, and she's not as oppressive as she was in her first rework.
She's still very good, you just need to think while playing her instead of being able to just spam teleport and then bully whoever is close to being condemned to make sure they can't use a tape.
The only correct statement in here is "she's not as oppressive as she was in her first rework." I mean, yea, because she kind of sucks now.
Everything else is just objectively wrong.
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@Blueberry said:
Her phasing is desynced between what you see and what the survivors see and the duration of her disappearance also isn’t lasting as long as it’s supposed to (roughly .8 instead of 1.2). Both bugs have been acknowledged in the bug forum and are being looked into, no ETA yet.
She has a “stealth” that is basically non existent since it has a lullaby that tells them when you’re near and it’s even directional for that matter.
Surprise teleports don’t actually work because it’s again, directional, as well as showing you all the TV auras so there’s no chance for catching them off guard.
No difficulty in finding TVs for tapes as they’re all lit up for you.
No negative to holding tapes.
No longer realistic counter play to preventing survivors from dropping off tapes and removing condemn since they can drop off at off TVs and hits no longer destroy tapes.
They can completely turn off your power and map mobility by just walking around turning off all your TVs. It’s again the issue many killers suffer from which is survivors controlling your power more than you do. They decide if you get to use it.
Since hits don’t destroy tapes anymore and the tape drop of animation is so fast they can drop the tapes off at the TV right in your face preventing the stack lock in or the condemn.
The lock in limit per hook is so pitiful that it makes many Onryos just slug because the incentive isn’t good enough. Lock in condemn at one hook is the only thing that matters because once you’ve hooked them twice the condemn is now completely irrelevant since they’re dead on hook anyway. You also aren’t saving hook time on that condemn either since you probably wasted more time condemning them than that condemn kill saved.
Many, many bad addons and addons that functioned based on her old kit but were never updated with her rework so they just don’t make sense anymore.
I do very well with her but it’s because of people playing bad, not respecting her condemn or not knowing what to do, not because of her strength. She relies on bad players to do well.
Pretty much all of this.
Bad chase, laughable condemn mechanic, worthless stealth. Sure, she has decent map mobility, but that doesn't matter if she sucks at everything else. She's a slightly better M1 killer, but she needs a lot of help right now.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Sadako release version (1.0): D tier, top among worst killers in the game
Sadako 2.0 (first rework): A tier, the only killer that had bad chase power but had insane macro and slowdown potential. It was pretty unique since it was the only killer that didn't rely on chase power.
Sadako 3.0 (current): bottom C tier, just slightly better than original version in terms of chase but worse in terms of condement and power function.
Result: She needs buffs.
They need to turn her back to her 2.0 version, with some changes here and there. Let her stay bad in chase and boost her macro game and map-wide pressure. Condemn and TVs should be an actual threat rather than a minor inconvenience.
Not EVERY killer needs to be chase focused.
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@DetectiveDuckMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720669#Comment_3720669
spirit has a mori mechanic? when i play her i never saw that.. Also aren't moris supposed to earn you bps and rewards for doing them, not decrease the amount of bps you get?
I'm including Rancor in that since it is technically her perk. I know anyone can use it, but my point still stands. Replace Spirit with Pig if you want.
And mori's do give bonus right now, but that is the only way to make full Ebony mori fair while avoiding potential problems with every killer having access to it every game. The point is to prioritize hooking over tunneling while still allowing the mechanic to exist in a non-stupid way.
Having only the last survivor be eligible for mori is asinine and pointless.
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They just need to make her Condemn mechanic an actual, consistent threat rather than a laughable joke. She's already kind of bad in chase, which would be fine if condemn was more reliable and actually applied enough pressure. Sadly, it does not.
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Hold on to your backsides, folks. I'm about to give a hot take for my first forum post:
Make the Ebony mori baseline for all killers, but with a change; every survivor that gets Moried reduces the killer's final BP and emblem progress for that match by 25%. So if you mori all 4, you get no BP and no emblem progress, but your MMR still goes up.
Make the Mori another tool in the killer's toolbox to utilize, but at a cost because of how strong it can be. It should be an option for dealing with problematic survivors and annoying perks, but at the same time promotes hooking survivors and disincentivizes slugging and tunneling just to get it.
Note that this does not include killers like Myers, Sadako and Spirit who have built-in mori mechanics. Those function as normal.