NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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- NuclearBurrito
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I'd use it if I had the perk.
I don't though ;(
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Most people use Bond for that niche. I personally use empathy for ally tracking, but I'm in the minority
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Yeah Plague is not horrible. Corrupt IS really good (though I wouldn't say it's BS)
It has some counterplay, but for the most part it's very likely to down you if she's near you with it.
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Basically it ends up working like this:
Look at something broken that one side has (survivor looping is a good go to)
Give the Killer something to handle it effectively and reliably. This will itself be broken by design
Give survivors some tool to deal with it
Give the Killer a tool with the survivor's tool
Give survivors a tool to deal with the killers tool to...
you get the point. Anyways the goal is to use the same tool twice in this chain. Once you do that it becomes a loop and that means you win at designing counterplay.
Once you are at that point the specific balance isn't really THAT big of a deal since it means all strategies within the interaction set you were looking at will have counterplay.
Of course it's not that simple since there is more than 1 broken thing. But generally it's just:
Can the Killer counter gen rush and loops?
and
Can the Survivor's counter this Killer if he tunnels?
if the answer to these questions is a yes then you did a good.
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@FeelsVeryBadMan said:
What does your "viable" mean? If devs listened to most Killer Mains on these forums on "how to make all Killers viable", all Killers would be straight up broken.
By the way, just because many people think that only 2-3 killers are viable, doesn't mean that's true.
Personally I use the methodology of "solve a problem, check to see if you created a new one (you almost always will), repeat with this new problem" That way you always end up going somewhere.
My legion fix post is a great example of that in action
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/56821/legion-mega-fix#latest
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Also % of solo's >= % of solo only lobby's
If 100% of the solo's were not playing with SWF then that would mean that there are about 50% of solo lobby's (since SWF and Solo's are both 50/50 that means in order for them to be completely separate they would need to have as many lobby's to themselves)
Even if every 2 man lobby was together, since they are each a % of the total player base that means 2 solo's is statistically equivalent to a 4 man for these purpose.
However we KNOW that not all solo's are in the same lobby. Every 3 man game has exactly 1 solo in it, thus the % of solo only lobby's is less than the % of solo's.
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Just wanted to point out I never divided by 4.
I cubed the odds.
Those things may happen to be equal in the case of 50% (since 1/2*1/2 = 1/4) but the methodology is different.
And I wouldn't do that with a 4 man since once you establish that there is a 4 man you're done and any additional modifiers are double counting. Hence why it was to the power of 3 and not 4 for my initial.
Thought I would like to point out that 0.5^4 = 6.25% (stats show 6.22%) which is almost exactly the 4 man odds which means the number of 4 man games are exactly what we would expect given a random distribution of 50% solo's and 50% SWF without meaningfully distinguishing.
Same for 3 mans. 0.5^3 = 12.5% (stats show 11.95%) and 2 mans. 0.5^2 = 25% (stats show 28.62%)
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@brokedownpalace probably should elaborate on that.
While any given survivor will have a 50% chance of being solo. There are also 4 survivors any of which could be in a duo or trio even if one of the survivors is solo.
Thus in theory the odds of 4 solo's is 0.5^4
However once we have established 3 solo's the 4th is guaranteed to be solo making the above calculation inaccurate.
Thus 0.5^3
And that works out to 0.125
1-0.125 = 0.875
0.875*100 = 87.5%
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In that case. There is your hard data
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Is it safe to assume it was the 4 month period where DBD lost 50% of it's playerbase?
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@245_Trioxin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/456169#Comment_456169
Well, right now it's just hearsay. I would have to just give you the benefit of the doubt.
@245_Trioxin I mean you can check the steam player count
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Yeah. The most useful forms of data showed here is the game length (since it is organized by rank) and SWF odds (Be careful it is easy to misinterpret)
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actually 50% of players being solo's means that about 87.5% of games include SWF players
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Seems like you would almost never get the pounce off considering it's a full second channel. They would just round a corner making it more like a nerfed Billy.
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@McCree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/455063#Comment_455063
I never said he should let me go free but face camping is just stupid
@McCree and was he genrushed for it?
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Would it help if the Killers got something besides MS? Or if the value was increased?
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@Mat_Sella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/455648#Comment_455648
every killer benefits from movement speed, why do you think everyone was questioning whether Plague or any other recent release killer was gonna be 110% or 115%? a little movement speed is what devs balance around
@Mat_Sella they all obviously have a benefit. But for example the Doctor and Myers are going to get more of a boost from 1% extra MS than the Nurse or Spirit will. Simply because the top tiers move with their powers which generally aren't effected by MS modifiers besides addons.
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@Mat_Sella said:
so once again, the "holy trinity" benefit cause of their speed, and the others get clowned on by the now essence buffed survivor's.
I would like to point out that the best Killers also have the least benefit from extra movement speed besides the Hag.
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@Keanuqwerty an event would be a great way to test it out! Probably not with the chest perk interaction in that situation.
What's wrong with having special essence in the basement? It makes it a far more dynamic location with more reward for risk vs reward plays.
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But what does that actually DO?
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Disfigured ear
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Also. This is more of a proof of concept. Please treat it as such as the numbers and details are very much subject to change.
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Comparing it to league, think the difference between farming (collecting essence) and taking towers (doing gens)
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The reason why this might work is because in order for people to bother with the long game (AKA: Anything but gen rush/tunneling) they need to be able to build up power over time.
This is mostly supposed to be a survivor sidegrade but with some Killer interaction to make it more interesting.
Ultimately this is likely to be a survivor nerf, but that's ok so long as it isn't too overbearing.
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Ok first of all how would the tiers work?
And second of all how would you go about making sure this doesn't end up countering strategies besides gen rush?
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@DocOctober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/452169#Comment_452169
That is not the intended use of Decisive Strike. DS is intended to punish tunnellers, however, in such a situation, you cannot not "tunnel" as Killer, there is literally no other Survivor around to go for. With your proposal, that would be a completely risk-free hatch escape since you'd be practically untouchable for 60 seconds.
@DocOctober not even. The hatch would be closed by that point.
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What if the activation requirement was "2 hits without being downed"?
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What if they changed the condition from "3 hits from M1" to "2 hits. Resets if you are downed"? That way you would have to win 2 chases in order to activate it.
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Honestly I wouldn't blame you. Maybe I should give it a cooldown? Or maybe only let it effect one generator at a time?
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Can we please not derail this into yet another "is gen rushing a problem?" thread? We have enough of those already and it misses the point of this thread.
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@Sairek Gen rush != doing gens. The rush is an important part of it.
Other examples are tower rushing in league or zerg rushing in star craft.
Yes the objective is doing generators. So whatever strategy the Survivors use it should eventually include "and then we do the 5 gens, open the gates and leave".
Or in otherwords gen rush is where you optimize gen completion for speed. Obviously this begs the question of what else you could optimize for.
An important distinction between games like league and dead by daylight is that league lets you upgrade mid game.
Maybe there should be some way for Survivors to build up power over time?
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@Vlieger said:
Balancing an asymmetrical game isn't really possible. There will always be power shifts to one side or the other as things get added/changed.
@Vlieger not true. You can balance an asymmetrical game the same way you balance any other game.
Even if it will usually never be perfect in any game which is sufficiently complex well... that applies to regular games too such as league of legends, TF2, Overwatch (even on symmetrical modes) and even CoD and Battlefront.
Regardless every game does at least in theory have a point which is perfectly balanced, and each change is designed to approach that point.
Saying that balance is impossible is just a pointless thing to say. If you mean that we should just give up on balance forever then guess what that's a terrible idea. And if you don't mean that then what exactly did you just add to the discussion?
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@No1TheLarch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/425301#Comment_425301
No he was fixed. No more Moonwalking exploit, and now he can win games without Franks Mix tape. And Honestly no-one has seen him yet, so save your whining for when hes on the PTB. I think Itll mean legions can play games without getting dced on so much cause noone wanted to play. They only problem I have is the frenzy move speed nerf, I dont think its necessary (unless they offset it with the move speed buff leaving it the same speed as it is now). We shall see but I think most people are just sad they break chase and follow until they fall over.
@RSB Id half agree with you, except at the highest level their is nothing the BEST survivors can do to counter the BEST nurses. The reason for this (in my opinion) is that the short range blink is near instant therefore you cant mind game or predict the nurse (outskill them) and the nurse doesnt have to be good and predict where the surv will go (like spirit the second best killer has too). Plus the recent change that removes the black screen on fatigue makes her EASIER which goes against your argument as well cause now she doesnt even have to use sound to track close survs.
@No1TheLarch ok so the PTB happened. NOW can I say the Legion is nerfed?
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@Victory again. Wrong thread.
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@Sairek while all of that is probably true. It's also NOT what this thread is for.
I am NOT trying to come up with a solution to rush here. Just strategically meaningful alternatives for survivors
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So as an example.
The alternatives to looping (attempting to extend chases for as long as possible) are immersion (not getting caught and thus never entering a chase in the first place) and juking (ending a chase by getting the killer to lose track of you)
The alternative to tunneling (focusing a single survivor so as to eliminate them without spending time on survivors that will take longer to Kill) is spreading (damaging all of the survivors at once to keep pressure on everyone so they can't do gens as easily)
and the alternative to camping (staying near a hooked survivor to wait for the rescuer) is patrolling (seeking out other Survivors with the time bought from the hook pressure)
What is the alternative to gen rush? What would that even mean?
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Agreed
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Honestly the only thing that I feel would make this problematic is the lack of a neutral exhaustion perk.
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@Karl_Childers said:
Id first like to see statistics released, excluding games with DCs, that shows throughout ranks that killer is averaging less than 2K per game. If that’s the case, we can talk about slowing survivors down only. Otherwise, to extend games things need to happen for BOTH sides. I don’t see why generator repair should be slowed down but tunneling (aka “kill-rushing”) should be left as is. Also, with anything involving the slowing of gens, we have to have hard measures against camping. Campers should never be buffed, which would be the case if killer remains untouched but gens are slowed. That’s common sense. Chaser penalty doesn’t cut it, hook progression should slow to a crawl also if the killer is standing in whatever proximity of the hook and not in chase. This would compensate for it taking longer to repair gens. That’s only fair.
I'd be down for finding a solution to both gen rush and tunneling. They both are somewhat problematic for slightly different but related reasons
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Excuse me my mind is encased inside of a skull which is itself encased inside of skin. Can I still participate in this thread?
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Thrill of the Hunt
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@ClogWench said:
Also your Legion buff is a disaster. You can't just "remove Moonwalking" without addressing how or altering how his power works. Maybe the PTB version isn't the greatest but classic Legion is infinitely worse and just damages the game.
^this
Moonwalking is a strategy, not a mechanic. And therefor it cannot be directly removed.
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@pemberley said:
I agree. I actually think Freddy is fine for the most part - he only needs qol buffs that don’t make his weaknesses feel so exploitive (aka “I’m right here you fools, run! And f your adrenaline!”)
Legion is hard to tell since I don’t have access to the ptb, but again qol changes like making sure frenzy doesn’t go away when stunned when NOT using it.
But god yes, Bubba is definitely the second weakest killer after Plague (and it’s only because he has an instant down and hook pressure in spades; plus he has bbq) and he needs something.
Tbh he should be the one with no stun or mobility slow down when using his saw, not Billy.
@pemberley but plague isn't even close to being the worst Killer. She has tracking, a pseudoinstadown and a surprising amount of map pressure. And that's even without getting into corrupt purge.
She's not the best or anything. But she's certainly better than most Killers.
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*cough*
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If someone assumes you used a crutch like SWF or Hacks when you didn't then that is an unintentional compliment. Thank them and move on knowing you played really well that game.
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You know I almost think it would be a nerf at midranks since right now people will just stop doing gens to find the ruin. While with this they would ALWAYS work through the ruin thus probably completing the gens faster than if they looked for ruin.
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I'm surprised they didn't ask anything about the actual PTB
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@CallMeSpidey said:
A Mori should be a rare sight, not a common one and when used it shouldn't let survivors know but it has to be very rare.
Devour Hope should be the "Go To" when it comes to Moris, they're too common and it cuts the gameplay by half.
Can survivors get an offering that cuts generator completion time by half?
It's the same thing.
Of course not! Survivors need uncommon reusable items to cut repair times in half, not ultra rare offerings.
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@legion_main said:
oh god permanent bloodlust on the obsession?
It´s an interesting idea but I think making bloodlust not go away is just going to incentivise tunneling the obsession and they won´t be able to do anything because YOUR FAST AS F*** BOIIIIIIII
@legion_main that's not how tunneling works
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I would like to remind everyone that the pregame chat exists and can be used to inform your team of your perk combo and strategy even in solo's. Being able to know your team's perks is not exclusive to SWF