NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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Give it an effect. And better yet, make a method of doubling your BP basekit instead of tying it to perks.
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Hold on now. He said "unless no one is doing gens"
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Meh. Surge is better as a standalone perk than as a Ruin enhancer.
If you're going to combo Ruin with something then I'd try Dying Light. It slows gen repair speed and healing speed, meaning it takes Survivors longer to repair gens and longer to heal allowing gens more time to regress as well.
That being said, Surge is decent as a standalone on specific Killers. Specifically Myers, Spirit and Ghostface can get a lot of value out of the perk since they can quickly pop up in front of a Survivor and immediately down them triggering the perk before they can start running in the first place.
An important thing to note is that a lot of the value from the perk is how it saves time. This is why it's not a great ruin combo, because that aspect has overlap with ruin and it doesn't stack. So while you get SOME value out of it unlike PGTW, you still lose the most important part of the perk.
Though to be fair, it's still good even if a Survivor is still on the gen when it's popped, since not only does it regress the gen by about 6 seconds, but it also has a pause effect like with a missed skill check, which stalls the gen for about 2 seconds. This doesn't mean much if it's just one Survivor on a gen, but if there are several Survivors on a gen then that's easily double the effective stall power from that pause, that kind of thing can easily mean the difference between the gen popping and you getting to them and chasing them off.
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The Deathslingers primary strengths are his low terror radius and quick scoping. If you rebalance him around not having those, then what you are left with is the Huntress.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397313#Comment_1397313
I mean, thats what I wrote:
"E.g. the Outside-Pallets on Badham are fair and not too safe. You can waste some time here, but it is better to not stay at the loop too much. Sadly Bloodlust exists, so those fair Pallets become unfair, since the Killer gets a Speedboost after a while, which makes it even more difficult to play the Pallet or to make it to another Pallet."
This is one whole paragraph. So for me, it is logical that it is all for the same point - Badham Pallets. If that did not get delivered like that, sorry, but for me, it made sense when writing it.
Also, the 1v1 vs 1v4 mentality... Yeah, I know, fanboys of a certain Streamer brought it up. But the individual Skill of a Survivor should never be ignored. It should never be 100% guaranteed that a chase can end quickly, because it is a 1v4. And combining multiple Structures and being efficient with Pallets is the one thing which separates the really good Survivors from the good/mediocre Survivors. A really good Survivor might need to use two Pallets for a long Chase, while a mediocre Survivor needs to use four.
And I think it is also fine that there are Survivors where the Killer should not go on a Chase at this point in a match. This does not mean they should never be able to chase them, but it is a 1v4 - so there are 3 other Survivors who are potentially not as good as the one Survivor the Killer cannot catch OR are at weaker setups.
But, lets come back to Pallets:
In my opinion, Badham has really good Pallets. I am not talking about the School or the House of Pain, I am talking about the Pallets outside. Those are playable by Killers. They dont really need to break them to get a Hit, they can try to outplay the Survivor. The Survivor on the other hand can outplay the Killer as well and can get to the next Pallet.
I am not saying that Bloodlust as a general mechanic needs to be removed. But when it comes to Pallets like this, it makes fair pallets unfair, it does not take that long to get Bloodlust 1 and that should be enough to get a Hit. And while it is a mechanic which is still needed, because not all Pallets are fair, it is a handholding mechanic, after all. And well, bloodlusting Killers are the worse, sure, they will most likely lose and they are not skilled, but it still feels cheap to get hit or downed by this.
Now, when we look at the general Pallet Play, there are two issues in my opinion which affect both sides - there are too less Pallets and Pallets are too safe in general. Too less Pallets simply means, if a Survivor is ressourceful with the Pallets, they are fine. But not every Survivor is ressourceful, they sometimes waste the Pallets (e.g. after they got hit), which makes it unusable for other Survivors, since the Killer will kick the Pallet. Why would he kick it? Because it is too safe to be played.
And this is another thing - with a lot of safe Pallets, the Killer has to wait for the Drop and they have to kick it. For me, this is kinda boring gameplay. I would rather try to outplay a Survivor at an up or thrown Pallet instead of trying to outplay them while the Pallet is up and having to break them, while the Pallet is dropped. The peak of this can be found on The Game - this is w-gameplay on both sides. There are like two Windows on the Map and if we look at the Pallets near the Basement, there is not much Killers or Survivors can do. They press W until the Pallet is thrown, Killer kicks it and thats it. Neither is there any skill involved nor is it really entertaining.
So I think, really few safe Pallets and a bunch of unsafe/fair Pallets (not too unsafe of course, not something like Temple of Purgation downstairs) would be better and more fun to play with. And they would not ######### over Survivors if their teammates are wasting Pallets. Nothing worse than the Rank 15 Meghead who is throwing every safe Pallet for the gold Evader, while everyone else cannot do anything anymore.
And for that, Bloodlust would need to go. If Pallets are playable when thrown, Killers would also not really need Bloodlust IMO. It would also increase the Skill Level on both sides.
I propose the following bloodlust rework:
- After 20 seconds of chasing under the same conditions as now (no pallet breaks or whatever) the Killer gets the bloodlust status. No tiers, you either have bloodlust or you don't
- Bloodlust is +0.4 M/S (+10%) BUT also removes the Killers ability to see scratchmarks while it's active
- While the Killer has bloodlust the red stain turns white to signal to the Survivor being chased to hurry up and escape the chase
What this accomplishes:
- Bloodlust takes longer to appear in the first place (15->20 seconds)
- Bloodlust ramps up instantly but not as hard (the proposed speed is the equivalent of tier 2 bloodlust now)
- Bloodlust serves to ensure chases end relatively quickly, but does not ensure that it ends with a Killer successfully hitting the Survivor
That 3rd part is important. As the Survivor, once the Killer has bloodlust it becomes much harder to loop him but much easier to juke him. You can use this opportunity to escape the chase since prolonging it further is extremely risky depending on where you are. Obviously this can be tricky depending on the scenario, but it has to be in order to be balanced.
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Yes. It's great. Whispers is universally a great perk.
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Long story short.
Survivor win condition: Escape by any means necessary
Killer win condition: Kill the Survivors before they can escape
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For some ideas. Here are all of the perk idea's I've posted that have a speed boost component. Each dot is a completely separate perk idea:
- Start the trial with 3 tokens. Consume a token every time you strike a healthy Survivor. At exactly 3 tokens: Instantly down the Survivor. At exactly 2 tokens: You suffer no successful attack cooldown. At exactly 1 token: You receive a 5% movement speed bonus for 20/25/30 seconds.
- Gain bloodlust 50/75/100% faster. Gain an additional 2% extra movement speed per tier of bloodlust.
- Each time a Survivor is injured gain a token. When you down a Survivor lose all tokens and for each token you will move 1% faster for 20/30/40 seconds
- For every Survivor not within 32 meters of another Survivor gain 1 charge per second. At 80 charges gain 3/4/5% increased movement speed. Downing a Survivor will reset your charges.
- Each hooked survivor increases your movement speed by 5%. This effect is persists for 5/10/15 seconds after the survivor is unhooked. These effects are disabled if the hex totem is broken (this one's a hex perk)
- For each totem remaining gain a 1% increase in movement speed up to a maximum bonus of 3/4/5%
- Move 1% faster per injured survivor up to a maximum of 2/3/4% faster
- Each time you injure a survivor gain a token up to a maximum of 4. Each time you down a survivor lose a token. Whenever you start a chase gain a 3% movement speed boost for 1 second per token up to a maximum of 4 seconds. Afterwards this perk goes on a 40/30/20 second cooldown.
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As much as I support speed boosting perks, it needs to be conditional to work. You can't just give Killers a permanent free speedboost. Or Survivors for that matter, exhaustion perks are extremely temporary with a long shared cooldown.
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Obviously it's the Hag
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Note that I don't necessarily agree with the MAGNITUDE of the perks cooldowns.
It would be much better if the perks had their cooldowns start on the perks activation and not when the perks effect ran out.
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Some of the cooldowns make sense. Thrilling Tremors and Trail of Torment for example. Surge however, does not need a cooldown.
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Broken until healed means broken forever. Broken Survivors cannot be healed.
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Yes, yes I would.
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Nope. Different game sorry. That's Dad buy Delight.
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@ShrekTheThird69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/166982/deathslinger-changes
As a deathslinger main i really wouldn't want any of these changes, they are really unfair. His power is in a really good state right now the only thing that he needs is more movement speed.
There is nothing "only" about movement speed.
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@Mr_executioner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397968#Comment_1397968
The reason I added that was so that he has his identity and not stuck in the huntress’s shadow
Giving him more of the strengths of the Huntress isn't going to change that regardless of the effect on his viability.
Making him distinct means giving him strengths the Huntress lacks.
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Not sure all of that's necessary. Particular the dying state thing.
The numbers changes are all fine. But instead of it downing Survivors on chain break, I'd increase the reel speed significantly.
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@yobuddd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397525#Comment_1397525
Oh of course! Way to much for the in-game perk description, but I wanted the extra info in this post for discussion’s sake. People would discover things like the interaction with the fire barrel on their own, but I want it known here that such an interaction should be included.
No but like. That interaction shouldn't even be there. You're putting too many mechanics into the perk.
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Ice Age is too much for a perk.
Just make it:
"Every 20/15/10 cumulative seconds that a survivor remains stationary (including healing and working gens), they they gain a token, up to 5. Each token decreases the Survivors movement speed by 3% up to a maximum of 15%. Survivors may remove a token by walking for 10 seconds or running for 5 (or a combo of the two) - progress for removal remains when stopping, unless stopped long enough to gain a new token."
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@Kreggy_Frueder910 said:
All your ideas are convoluted and terriible. Here's how the Insidious rework SHOULD GO:
Insidious: After hooking a survivor, you gain the Undetectable status effect for 8/9/10 seconds.
There! A balanced perk that is simple, counters Kindred and instant Borrowed Time saves, and doesn't promote hard camping the hook. I really think the devs should take this idea.
That's just a completely different perk. We're trying to preserve as much of it as we can.
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@SnailTea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1395909#Comment_1395909
Thank you for reading my concept! As most killers such as Doctor have some sort of offensive or hindering ability, and Springtrap's just a tracker, I imagine he would have 120% speed, being the fastest killer in the game (Minus Legion in frenzy). He would also have a standard terror radius, although his 'Security Measures' perk could work very nicely with perks such as Monitor and Abuse. Thank you for the feedback! 🐌
You should probably make sure that's in the OP. Base stats are extremely important, especially when they are non-standard
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Look. Think of it like this:
There are 3 broad categories a Killers power can help you in:
* Lethality
* Patrolling
* Stall
These can then be further broken down into sub-catagories:
Lethality - Gap Closing, Anti-loop, Anti-Grouping and Max Downing speed
Patrolling - General mobility, tracking
Stall - Direct (ex: Deep wounds), Indirect (ex: Freddy clocks)
Now, Clown's power helps with Gap Closing, Anti-loop and Tracking. It doesn't do that much to help with the tracking part, but it at least does a decent job at the other 2.
However, compared to other Killers this power is doing very little for him. Note that beyond a negligible amount of tracking all of his power is in the form of Lethality.
Now this by itself isn't a problem, however for a Killer with exclusively chase power his chase isn't even that good. Compare him to Huntress, who is amazing in all 4 Lethality sub-catagories. Or Spirit who has amazing anti-loop and gap closing along with some general mobility. Or even Legion, who has one of the best Anti-Grouoing powers in the game along with the best stall and amazing tracking.
Or even Billy with his insane Downing speed with his instant down and gigantic general mobility and a decent gap closer.
Clown has power is as strong as I would expect a versatile power to be, except the power isn't actually versatile. That's why he's considered weak.
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Base stats?
Also his power is just tracking. So unless he's a 120% Killer or something he's going to end up just being outclassed by Doctor or Legion.
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I'd bring pack OG autodidact.
-20% first skill check
+80% with 5 stacks.
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@oh_0k said:
Ruin
or
Surge (the version they showed on the stranger things reveal stream that was 40 meters and 12% regression)
OG OG surge was still 32 meters. PTB was 24 meters 12% and then current version is 32 meters 8%.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1395837#Comment_1395837
What?
Are you forgetting Wraith's existence? One good build does not mean that a character is strong.
Maybe they should qualify that as the worst steath Killer at stealth?
As in her Crouch isn't very strong and her real abilities are her ambush attack for anti-loop and her RBT's for stall.
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@HighQualityDonut said:
Doesn't soul guard only give endurance when you are picked up from the dying state? It wont be usable in the tank build or the support healer build.
I didn't know that when I wrote those builds.
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Stats?
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Don't pick and chose. You have to use a mix depending on the specific context you find the Survivor in.
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Btw, I've tested the forced penance build I posted using ghostface. I ended up replacing Nurses Calling with Whispers, but otherwise the build actually worked! So I've been able to get good value out of that build unironically.
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@Anara said:
MoM + Bloodpact on the same survivor is not a good idea, you said to go help the obsession and take a protection hit but with MoM you have more chances to become the obsession..
But if you play with a friend it's good if you play MoM to have your friend with Blood Pact, I already tried it.
How much have you actually tested taking both? Because I'm not sure what the odds are exactly of being the Obsession with the combo.
And yes, MoM + Bloodpact over 2 Survivors in a duo should work very well. Blood pact user runs healing perks while the MoM user runs a breakout build or something.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1316178#Comment_1316178
It's funny that "Dark Devotion" and "Nemesis" is just this but with double the duration and more reliability.
Yup. I'm trying to make it work because that's the whole point of the thread, but I didn't exactly have much to work with here.
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While it's a little finiky I can't properly answer your question with just that information.
I will say tho that so long as you are within 32 meters of him, distance is a non-factor.
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@batax90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/166420/if-youre-smart-youll-stop-running-self-care
Self care take 30 sec to get heal a teamate heal you in 15 sec so 15 sec + 15 sec = 30 sec unless i fail my math in primary school i think im right. So you can use self care or get heal by a team its exactly the same
You're math was right but your numbers were wrong.
It's 16 seconds normally, self care is 32 seconds.
Your conclusion was fine tho.
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@sulaiman said:
Just another player thinking there is only one way to play the game, and tries to force his view on others.
Well, you might be right about efficency, but who cares about that? Efficency give you wins, granted, but it also makes the game boring.
Why should someone abandon a playstyle he likes to win a game thats not worth playing for him anymore?
So, no.
Not even. Self care is 100% efficient
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Just to point out some wording flaws:
Spotlight: "until they are out of the radius and they have the blindness status effect." Therefore, if you aren't running 3rd seal they are revealed forever because they will never get the blindness status effect in order to disable the perk.
Ok but really though. When exactly does the Survivor get the blindness status effect and for how long?
Rehearsal: "When putting a survivor into the dying state for the 4th/3rd/2nd time" does it need to be the 2nd time that specific Survivor is put into the dying state? The 2nd time you the Killer have put a Survivor into the dying state? Every 2 times you put a Survivor into the Dying state? Having 2 Survivors be in the dying state? TLDR: This needs a lot of clarification.
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Math checks out. Camping 2 Survivors is exponentially more effective than camping just 1, so the strat becomes a guarantee.
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Hold up, which community is this again?
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@28_stabs said:
We had many similar topics full of solutions for DS problems. For example - any action but running away from killer or healing deactivate DS. It was ignored. Devs really care only about selling new dlcs.
You'd think that be a good reason to nerf DS/BT/whatever. That way any newer perks they release would seem stronger by comparison
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Billy
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On a purely conceptual level a Werewolf Killer is something I want the most.
I've already made a werewolf Killer myself:
@NuclearBurrito said:
Another take at one of my older Killer ideas. Specifically a werewolf Killer.
The Wolf
Terror Radius: 0 (more on that)
Movement Speed: 4.4 (110%)
Power: Unholy Curse - You have 2 forms, Human form and Wolf form which each have unique effects. You start the trial in human form and can transform by holding M2 for 2 seconds, you move at 3 M/S (75%) during the channel and there will be a non-directional global audio que when transforming into a wolf in the form of a howl. (Transforming into a human is nearly silent)
Human Form:
- You are passively undetectable and move at a reduced speed at 4.4 M/S (110%)
- Basic attacks on Survivors will apply the tainted status effect, which lasts until it is manually removed (more on that) or until they are downed.
- Downing a tainted Survivor grants a Beast token, powering up the wolf form and consumes the taint. You may have a maximum of 5 Beast tokens which last for the entire trial.
Note: On injured Survivors, taint is applied BEFORE the down. Meaning a tainted injured Survivor will be untainted after giving the token, and an untainted injured Survivor will give a token after being downed in human form.
Wolf Form:
- You have an increased terror radius (40 meters) and an increased movement speed of 4.8 M/S (120%)
- Tainted Survivors within your terror radius are considered "Feared" which has effects depending on how many beast tokens you have and your addons.
- You must have at least 1 Beast token to transform and gain bonuses depending on the number of tokens you have. The effects of Beast tokens are the following:
- 1 Token: You may transform into wolf form
- 2 Tokens: Feared Survivors move 0.1 M/S Slower (5%)
- 3 Tokens: You see the aura of Survivors that become feared for 5 seconds
- 4 Tokens: You have an extended lunge range (same as T3 Myers)
- 5 Tokens: Your movement speed is increased to 5.0 M/S (125%)
Prayer Statues:
- 5 Prayer Statues will spawn all around the map.
- Survivors may pray at a prayer statue for 10 seconds to remove the tainted status effect.
- The Killer may destroy prayer statues while in human form disabling it for the rest of the trial. However this will also disable transforming for 30 seconds. Destroying a statue takes 2 seconds and is effected by anything that effects breaking speed.
Perks
- Mark of the Beast - Survivors you hit with a basic attack become marked. The next time they attempt to heal, repair, open an exit gate, open a chest, break a totem or sabotage a hook they will scream revealing their aura for 3/4/5 seconds and consuming the mark.
- Hex: Decay - After a Survivor has vaulted over the same pallet 4/3/2 times it will instantly break. This effect is disabled once the Hex totem is cleansed
- Hidden Rage - If you hit a Survivor with a basic attack within 5 seconds of them entering your terror radius this perk activates. Your next pallet break or vault action within 20/25/30 seconds will be preformed 100% faster.
Addons
Brown
- Decrease how long you are locked in human form after destroying a Prayer Statue (by 5 seconds)
- You do not howl while transforming into a wolf
- You transform from wolf form into human form 0.5 seconds faster
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 1 second
Yellow
- Decrease how long you are locked in human form after destroying a Prayer Statue (by 10 seconds)
- 1 less Prayer Statue spawns
- Decrease time to transform into Wolf form by 0.3 seconds
- Feared Survivors have a 5% reduced action speed
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 2 seconds
Green
- Decrease time to transform into Wolf form by 0.5 seconds
- Feared Survivors have a 10% reduced action speed
- The slowdown effect on feared Survivors is increased by 0.05 M/S (2.5%)
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 2 seconds)
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 3 seconds
Purple
- The first time you down a tainted Survivor, gain an additional beast token
- You can see the aura of Prayer Statues within 24 meters
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 4 seconds)
- Each beast token increases your terror radius by 2 meters while in Wolf form
Red
- You start the trial with a beast token
- You may obtain up to 6 beast tokens. The 6th beast tokens causes feared Survivors to have the exposed effect
Note: The aura of Prayer Statues are NOT revealed to anyone. They are considered to be Killer Belongings for the purposes of perks and items.
And I've seen some other people with some cool ideas too.
The mechanical stuff you suggested in particular sounds a little bland tho, but the core idea of a werewolf Killer is just the bestest.
You gotta make him a transforming Killer tho. Otherwise you're just not using the idea. Werewolfs are people that turn into wolf monsters, not just some generic anthro-beast.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1390961#Comment_1390961
Aftercare is entirely based on how altruistic you are, which isn't always something you can control. Some games all the action is taking place on the other side of the map and you're just doing generators for the first 3-5 minutes.Also, I don't love that it resets every time you get hooked because it encourages a passive playstyle. Ideally, you want to get chased evenly and spread hook states to prevent an early kill. But with Aftercare, you kind of want to avoid being chased in general to keep your stacks, which can end up screwing your team over.
And finally, Aftercare isn't very good for activating when you need it. Healing Survivors requires you to find them, which the perk doesn't help you with. And because of the perk's mechanics after being unhooked the only person you have Aura reading on is usually the one getting chased, so they can't heal you.
Hence why I don't run it.
I. Run. Blood Pact.
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@doitagain_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1390944#Comment_1390944
I tried to like blood pact but it’s pretty terrible especially compared to aftercare.
Personally I prefer the early usage blood pact grants. But yes aftercare is the more reliable perk overall. That's the tradeoff.
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@gatsby said:
Inner Strength is like Deliverance. You sometimes get a ton of mileage from it. Other times it's basically a waste of a slot.
Maps like Lerys, Midwhich, Hawkins and The Game all have difficult totem spawns so you'll spend way more time hunting for totems there or struggle to find them at all. Plus, if multiple Survivors on your team are running Inner Strength the totems disappear fast or at least the easy ones do.
Personally, I've switched to Blood Pact as my usual healing perk because its reliable and not map dependent.
I mean I also use blood pact in my main build but it's not even close to being because of it's reliability. The perk really isn't all that reliable since it only works with the Obsession.
That said I love the perk anyways, hence why I use it.
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Ok? It's a balanced perk, there is no particular reason to want to buff or nerf it at all in the first place.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1390709#Comment_1390709
I think changing the percentage of perks and rewriting up to 10 lines of code isn't as difficult as you think.
You'd be surprised
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1390623#Comment_1390623
How is it counterable when a survivor out of nothing hits you? You don't write anything about charge time or anything.
If you just refer to the Nurses scenario, then I am wondering how tall the snake is. Because how I read it, it would be invisible in tall grass like a Blendette. If the snake is as tall as the Hag, this might be a different thing
I was thinking it'd be comparable to a crouching pig or ghostface but with a darker color scheme. A little smaller but hardly something you'd fail to see if you're looking for it and it's out in the open or something.
The window you have to run is during the stalk. If the Survivor is already Assimilated then at that point you can get the hit, however if you're worried about that the stations I mentioned exist for a reason.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1389528#Comment_1389528
Yes but that might be a problem with the takeover. It is either useless which is annoying for the killer or you get free hits on people healing or working together on gens. And as you can for free take a look, you don't even need perks like Discordance or Nurses. Especially the insta downs during healing is a problematic scenario. I think this mechanic would need some kind of rework to make it fair and fun for both sides.
It is ok when it is strong, if it causes survivors to just keep distance in any case because they don't know when survivors might rage, it would perfectly create the atmosphere you want for the thing. But with the current state just think of Nurses. Find someone healing someone else, 8m of range outside of your TR, then split, move with 200% speed and stalk for 3 seconds, undetectable. This doesn't need much time and gives a free down, unless they haven't already healed like 2/3 until you find them.
The thing about it is that those scenarios you mentioned are all counterable of the Survivors are paying close attention to their surroundings. Sure you can get the stalk off either way, but you need to remain unseen to capitalize on it. Otherwise they will split up the second they see you and you'll have to try something else in order to get them.
It's a lot like ghostface, except instead of having a clunky reveal mechanic, the knowledge that you've been stalked is just inherently damaging enough to significantly weaken the effect.
Yes you're Undetectable, but you aren't invisible. Stalking people as ghostface with being caught is hard, it'd only be slightly easier here.
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@ihavesomethingstosay said:
Yeah the stations could be petrindishes and under them is a small fire you draw blood over and if you are infected the killer could have the chance to jump out of you there or just ignore you and your cured or at the very least know your infected and play around it.
Ehh.. that sounds like adding too many mechanics into something that should be simple.
Maybe assimilated. Approach the station, if you're not assimilated now you know, if you are assimilated then preform a channel and now you're not. No need to over-complicate it, the Killer is complex enough already.