Nobsyde
Nobsyde
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Well this is easy, come on!
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@Peanits said:
It is intentional. You need to see a certain amount of them for stalking to work. If you can only see a tiny sliver of the survivor, you won't be able to stalk.
this question is a bit technical but I'm curious: how does this work, internally? Raytracing on certain vertex of the survivor?
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it depends: if the 1000 auric cells in the premium path are always present (meaning: buy once, and if you play enough you can self finance it) then yes. Otherwise nope.
@not_Queen any confirmation on this matter?
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Disclaimer: I play on console.
Actually I think the Hag is one of the best (free) killers in the game, with a few caveats that need to be considered, especially perk wise:
HAG IS SLOW
You cannot rely on her speed neither in chases, nor for gen pressure. This basically means that without hex ruin one or two generators will probably pop before you have a correct trap setup / have someone on hook.
Ruin itself is not always a smart pick: depending on its spawn you could be wasting time trying to reach it / trap the area around it without being actually able to defend it (if all the other generators are away when a trap is triggered) or even capitalise from your setup (urban evasion anyone?).
That's the reason why I usually avoid it altogether.
PERKS
Here's the perks that I'm using right now.
Monitor & Abuse - hag has a 28 terror radius, which means that together with M&A you are able to somehow circumvent your slow sleep and reach survivors, plus..
Nurse Calling - ...you can see survivors healing without them being aware of your presence until it's too late
Sloppy Butcher - I think it is the best perk right now to slow the game. Furthermore it happens to synergies VERY well with M&A and NC.
NOED - yeah yeah, baby killer, but here's the thing: if you are against an optimal swf team there's no setup will give you the pressure needed to stay in the game, they'll just rush the gens, even while injured, relying on adrenaline. Jokes on them: they won't be able to cleanse every totem before reaching the end game, and if you have a correct trap setup before this time, everything will fall apart for them. On the other side, if they are not a (competente) swf team hag can shine mid-game. You end up with never using one perk slot, but who cares: this is a must have plan B for gen rushers.
EARLY GAME
If you don't have at least 5 traps already planted in some interesting spots (like: between a jungle jim, on top of some stairs, inside the basement shack...), don't even bother following a survivor, even if injured. Chances are you won't catch up on him, those few traps you already planted could pop from someone else (slowing your mid game even more) and gens will fly.
Instead, keep on planting traps, especially where you think survivors will go head from a near generator if they hear/see you coming: if they run they will be triggered / you'll see scratch marks. If they crouch, you have the opportunity to find them once you reach the generator, just look around.
If you find a survivor off guard and you are confident you can close the distance, injure him and/or try to let him waste a pallet. Once he does that, destroy the pallet and leave him: your TR will decrease, and 3 things will happen
- you have time to place some other traps, if needed
- if he panics, he could trigger a trap, hence granting you a kill (or, worst case scenario, another pallet drop)
- eventually, go back in the general direction he escaped to, and be alert for Nurse Calling to trigger.
MID GAME
you should have either one survivor already dead, or at least two dead on hook. There will probably be 2 to 3 gen left.
The most important thing here is to stay always in range for all your traps - this also means that even if you can't 3 gen the survivors, you can't waste time to put traps / chase survivor if they get away from your trapfield. Let them escape and heal, if they want, and go back where you have defences. Don't get discouraged if they all seem to run away from you in the same way: you only need ONE mistake to change everything.
Also, if you injured someone and another trap is triggered, if you think you can't 100% strike the injured survivor in the following 2-3 seconds just teleport to the triggered trap.
Remember: if a trap was triggered, it's in your trapfield, and another one will probably trigger eventually. Those are the survivors you want to chase.
LATE GAME
if you did well in the mid game, well, you basically can't lose. Let's assume 3, or even 4 survivor are still alive though - here's where you need to act fast.
One trap will trigger. If it doesn't, you failed to plant your trapfield to begin with, and you deserve the loss :P, otherwise either they'll be too slow reaching the doors, or something will go your way.
once you hit someone, slug him and put a trap near him (and possibly another one a few meters away). Go fish for someone else: this is the one you want to hook, but don't camp him, just put one trap near him and another in the direction of the nearest exit.
Go back to your slugged survivor (now probably healed) and see what happens. If they run away, probably some traps have been triggered. If nothing happened, probably they are still nearby trying for the save / open the door.
From here on it is on you. If NOED is nearby, trap it and patrol it as well, otherwise don't bother - if you are at this point chances are this is a swf team, they will not leave anybody behind, act accordingly ;)
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I don't disagree with you @Irvin, but making hex totems more difficult to find could be a solution only at mid rank, while becoming even more infuriating at lower rank and not a problem at all for swf / high ranks (if anything, just let one in the party bring a map / small game and you destroy hex in a few minutes).
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@CruiseControl said:
Hex ruin is fine its in current state and doesn't need to be changed.
people should be able to power through ruin by hitting greater's.
just hit greater's or break it. It's not that difficult.
...and that's exactly why I suggest a change ;).
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@TAG said:
The issue is that this doesn't solve the problem of Survivors who are good enough to just power through Ruin.
If you mean players hitting all the great skill checks well, gg to them - but consider that when more than one survivor stays on the same generator the pause from progress after a good skill check applies to everyone of them, and every survivor is an added 100% chance to get a group skill check - or, in other words, if the mean is 1 skill check every 10 seconds, two survivors will get 1 each in this frame of time. Only one needs to hit a good skill check to pause the progress.
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@PolarBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/348068#Comment_348068
It's still 2 perks that could be used more efficiently. I do sometimes like to try unconventional builds myself and that's how I personally view your suggestion. It can be a good combo but there will probably never be anything that can top DS.
When I said "it's much better than DS" I was not comparing the mechanics of DS to the ones of Head On; my build as a survivor is Bond + Sprint Burst + Self Care + Urban Evasion, and I wouldn't switch any of those perks for DS - in other words, I consider those 4 perks "better than DS".
In fact I consider DS a very underwhelming perk - but you also have to consider I play on PS4 where due to low frame rate DS skill checks are much more difficult to hit.
...I guess we'll have to wait and see!
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/348043#Comment_348043
No, its just the fact that they will try to rework a killer before they even drop
nah :)
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I wouldn't burn Dance With Me on the window. Fast exiting a locker with DWM triggers the effect too, so I'd prefer to stealthily run while the killer is stunned in front of a locker, giving me a good shot to break the chase or at least search entirely.
yeah that could be interesting as well, in my example I "burned" it on the window simply because I needed the 3 seconds of distance from the killer to activate Head On. Depending on how much one feels confident it could be used as you propose.
Well you need 3 perks to execute this "new ds". so I wouldn't say it's better.
quick and quiet and dance with me are two wonderful perks, especially when used together, though. You're not "wasting" anything, it's just a kind of build. You have to sacrifice lithe for head on but that's about it.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@ Edys
For a real genrush, the survs start to work on 4 different gens. Killer finds and chases one surv, the others keep working on their gens. That way, 3 gens are done when the first surv gets hooked. If the map allows it and the surv is good, make it even 4 or 5 gens. It's not efficient to start working on one gen with several people.
Point is: how does corrupt intervention prevent this? If you chase someone while the other 3 do the gens it’s exactly the same thing wherever the generators are
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A lot of what's described is very vague and it's easier to see how things are when put into a game rather than a discussion.
yeah ok but this topic is called "what do you guys think of upcoming killer and perks?" and the thread starter is.. you :D. I was just answering.
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I think the perk is intended to save killers the time while picking up someone with a flashlight in lobby or with a pallet. If there's a scream, there's someone nearby. If not, it's probably safe
(tnx for the quote tip)
yes, I agree with you, but what I'm saying is that I don't really like this implementation, I don't find it useful.
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it's much better than DS though :P. As said in another topic:
quick and quiet + dance with me + head on = vault a window without getting noticed + don't leave scratch marks while you move away from the window and hide in a locker.. You should have gained 3 seconds of confusion in the killer: IF he's smart enough to look into a locker, you still have Head on!
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/347124#Comment_347124
Killer
Dark Devotion - I hope it lasts for a while.
Infection Fright - I don't know how useful it would be to hear someone outside your terror radius screaming unless you're slugging. Otherwise it may give a general idea of where someone is, but they're likely to have moved by the time you've picked up and hooked the downed person.
Corrupt Intervention - Some people seem to like it. I think its usefulness would be dependent on how much time it lasts, though.
SURVIVOR
Solidarity - I could see it being very helpful, especially with a healing build. It'll be good on time wasting, though. Instead of healing 2 people, you're healing 1.
Poised - Seems like a gimmick build sort of perk to me, but we'll see what use people can find from it.
Head On - Yeah, I thought the perk would be decent at the very least and give people more reason to randomly jump into lockers during a chase, which some already do. I think its usefulness may be dependent on how much of a stun it gives, though, and how long you need to be sitting in a locker for it to activate.
(@not_Queen pls give us back quotes... I want to quote a specific part of this post but I can't :( )
Answering to:
>Infection Fright - I don't know how useful it would be to hear someone outside your terror radius screaming unless you're slugging. Otherwise it may give a general idea of where someone is, but they're likely to have moved by the time you've picked up and hooked the downed person.
Yeah I just want a "general location". Slugging is incentivized with this current implementation, exactly because you may have the time to reach a close survivor screaming, not with my proposal. You have to imagine a BBQ & Chili that is not precise and "delayed" (actually... pre...layed :P?). If they move from their position after the scream that's fine by me, I slow down their gen repairs.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/347153#Comment_347153
Why? Genrushing is more effective if everyone is on their own gen. If discordance counters genrushing, they're genrushing wrong imo.
because you shouldn't be static on the map, you go look somewhere and search for survivors. If 3-4 people are on 3-4 different generators you would find at least 1 100% before anything is getting done, then you play from that. And remember my second point: "the perk incentivizes survivors to do the "correct" generators, that is the ones in the middle of the map."
The real "rush" happens when you can't stop a generator from being done before reaching it, and that requires multiple survivors on the same generator.
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Again for Corrupt Intervention's fans:
- if you find a generator that is "corrupted": congratulations, you know you spawned far away from the killer!
- the perk incentivizes survivors to do the "correct" generators, that is the ones in the middle of the map. This is a huge advantage late game!
- one time use - at the worst possible time as well (that is: at the very beginning of the match)
- I can't do generators? Well, let's search for the hex ruin instead!
However you look at it, there are no "pros". If one is really afraid of gen rushing, no matter where the generator is, one should use Discordance.
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No idea as far as killer is concerned, I haven't even really understood how her abilities work..
As for perks:
Killer
Dark Devotion - potentially interesting perk, depending on how much time does the TR switch last. Useless on Legion though. I can imagine it being useful with quick traveling killers like Hillbilly or Nurse. Still, won't ever become meta :P
Infectious Fright - could maybe be somehow useful against swf, to avoid flashlight saves, but I would have liked much more a perk that does the exact opposite: let survivors OUTSIDE my terror radius scream. That would have been VERY useful. Another possible change: let every INJURED survivor scream (wherever they are) - this would have given an interesting spin on the current no-heal meta.
Corrupt Intervention - the Deja-Vù perk killers never asked for (really guys, this is pretty useless, I don't know how you may like it).
SURVIVOR
Solidarity - situational, but I like it. Solidarity + Autodidact could be very interesting (but still situational)
Poised - meh. Again, really situational, seems like a waste of a perk to be honest.
Head on - now this is good! Imagine this combo: quick and quiet + dance with me + poised: you jump from a window without making any noise, gain distance without leaving scratch marks and then hide in a locker. If the killer is smart enough to find you: head on!
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Please
The translation is roughly "mee dry".
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/345041#Comment_345041
Just wanted to be sure. You baited him into thinking the hatch was on the hill when it was actually on the opposite side of the map right?
exactly, plus the bonus of me being able to see a large part of the map and making myself very visible to the survivor.
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Backwater Swamp - I'm the killer and it's time for an hatch stand off. Generators are not being done at all, I search everywhere but I can't find neither the hatch nor the survivor. I mean: EVERYWHERE.
Out of desperation I basically hug the wall and walk the whole perimeter of the map, and eventually.. I find the hatch! At the time I didn't know the hatch could spawn so much near the corner of the map, so much so that one couldn't even hear the sound of it without going really out of the way.
I go almost to the opposite side of the map on top of a hill, and camp there, pretending to be afk.
Eventually the survivor sees me, I see him but I do nothing, he's still too far away. Once he's 10-15m away from me, I run, and hit him.
Now he gains some distance due to the hit, runs for the hill and reaches its base.
He tea bags,
then, he realizes.
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@Daneryn said:
I have been afk making this thread and they still wont move, this is just sickning, I really wish I could record this because I know simply reporting them after will do nothing in all honestly...this is beyond toxic like..
set your smartphone to record the screen and go do something else.
come back in 1 hour.
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pretend to go afk for 5 minutes, don't move in any way.
If they are that toxic, chances are they could come near you teabagging.
...or they could just do the gens, escape and make you free.
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What about bold and italic text?
Also, can you re-instate a way to split a quote in multiple parts? Maybe I want to quote (and answer) only to a few line of a WoT but I wouldn't be able now
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I'm sure there is "a way" to reach (and even surpass) a 60fps minimum for console and whatnot maintaining the exact same appearance of the game.
The problem is what is behind the scene, what makes the game "appear": take for example the sentence "change the game from *tick based* to *event bases*" - yeah, easy to say, not very much to do, if all your program revolves around it :P.
One may speculate it would be easier to just re-do everything from scratch than to try a step-by-step update. Well, good luck anyway :D
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@Arroz said:
This will make matchmaking worse than it is, just imagine be with a rank 20 killer who dc and is in the hell queue?
Btw, I would like to be in the hell queue haha, most of the players of that queue are toxic..You would face a "rank 20 killer who dc" only if you are a disconnecter as well, otherwise you wouldn't be in his same queue.
Now, if you mean that the community is split 50/50 between who disconnects and who doesn't (I can't really say, only devs may have those numbers), I would imagine that this is only because there are absolutely no penalties to disconnect as of now. Start by having a mandatory wait-time after a disconnect (increasing in duration) and maybe those figures would change.
If they don't... well, DBD would be beyond saving and I change the answer to the OP to:
- make a violet gold skin for every survivor with a built in power-up: the player needs to be hit 3 times before going down, he's immune to exposed effect and has a built in deliverance with no penalties (even in struggle phase). It costs 50 € and can be used for only 10 games.
- make 10 million € and go live in the Bahamas, with a diet based on lobsters.
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@Delfador said:
You are talking to a wall at this point.Yeah I realized he/she's just a kid so I won't bother with him/her, but still, some more mature players may read this thread and gain some insight on how and why even overpowered add-ons can be fun sometimes, and why if you rely on them in order to win you're never going to improve your baseline.
Not everyone has the ability or the time to understand basic game-design concepts like these, as we just saw.
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@TreemanXD said:
Hell queue would cause grieving as players who didn’t care about the game would join a SWF party and dc putting their team in hell queue.No that's not what I exposed, what happens is this:
3 players (john, billy and francis) want to play a swf game.- John for some reason is in Hell Queue
- Bill and Francis are not
John Bill and Francis create their group, then try to join a lobby.
Even if Bill and Francis are not in Hell Queue normally, due to John all the other players in the lobby will come from Hell Queue.
Normal rules applies in the game - so if Bill and Francis do not DC they do not increase their DC count, and can join normal queues in solo (or in swf if all the players are not in Hell Queue) -
Disconnects
- flag system: user.has_disconnect = True/False
- 1 DC: flag becomes True
- 2 DC: 3 minute wait before joining / creating a lobby
- 3 DC: 15 minutes wait
- 4 DC: 1 hour wait
- 5 DC: 24 hours wait
- 6 DC: 48 hours wait
- 7 DC+: 48 hours wait + player can play only in hell queue
- every 96 hours (4 days) or every 7 games without disconnections (only solo, not swf) the player loses 1 from his dc count
Hell Queue
- a special queue for flagged players (basically, players that abused somehow the game. for now let's say disconnecters)
- once a player is in Hell Queue, he can play only against other players in Hell Queue
- if a swf group has one player in Hell Queue, the group will be queued in Hell Queue
- normal rules still apply: if a player disconnects from a game his counter still increases, if he cheats he's still reportable etc.
- players in Hell Queue do not know they are in Hell Queue
- once in Hell Queue, player record must go back to immaculate (e.g. if he's in the Hell Queue due to 7+ DC, he must wait for his counter to go back to zero before being able to go back to the normal queue)
(EDIT: increased the amount of time / games needed to regress dc count)
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you're not understanding:
prayer beads + surveillance is game over, you don't even have to add all the other perks I've mentioned. It doesn't matter if "you were never grabbed on a gen", you just are facing a very, very unfair game. Maybe you can escape through the hatch, but if the killer is a little competent there's no way more than one escapes.
You're free to believe otherwise, you would just fool yourself.Also, you can play however you want, I like challenges and because of that I never use ultra-rare add-ons, but some people want easy games, so that's only fair you are able to ask for a little (actually, huge) help once in a while (or even "always", if you want to be the farming kid of your example)
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@powerbats said:
I understand completely, but how is it any different as i asked earlier if it's a Mirror Myers on Lery's or an Iri King Doctor on Gideon's or an M&A killer?Well, first of all, let's take M&A out of the way: it is a perk, and as every perk for powerful as they may be, it just takes one out of your 4 slots. Maybe you have to take out nurse's calling, maybe BBQ, maybe Discordance.. then, M&A reduces terror radius by 8 meters, but it does not remove it. Once the player realizes there's M&A, he can run from the gen as soon as he hears the TR and he will be fine. (yeah there's the case of MM on Lery's, but that's for the next paragraph)
Now, your two other examples: this is exactly the point, scratched mirror on Lery's (maybe even with M&A) is cheap and unbalanced. A difficult skill check/massive terror radius build as doctor on The Game is as well, but here's the thing: you need rare/very-rare add-ons + sacrifices to make it work. It should be considered an exceptional event for it to be fun even for survivors. Yeah they will probably die, but if those builds happen once in a while that's more than fine to me.
Prayer Beads on Spirit are under the same principle:
Prayer Beads + whatever addon + Discordance + Surveillance + M&A + BBQ is gg, survivors can't win. Ever.
You can even try other perks, like an all out totem and Thrill of the Hunt, and it would be a very easy game as well (unless you are very very unlucky and the first totem to go is Thrill).Again, it's fine and fun if it happens once in a while, the problem arises when someone plays constantly using those perks / add-ons - it's exactly like playing always a swf game with ds, borrowed time, adrenaline, instaheals + a key. But let's be clear, it is not a problem for me, I won't play against you every time (in fact, I enjoy those once in a while impossible games), it is for you, that will never learn how to play under difficult conditions.
(and no, I'm not a survivor main)
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@Paddy4583 said:
Personally I think the hatch should have a timer, after the alloted time the hatch closes, and the survivor has to either do the last gens or use a key or perk to reopen the hatch.Or the hatch should have a grab mechanic for the killer, so if the surviour is in a certain proximity the killer has a grab option without the survivor having to jump first, instead of only being able to hit them.
The latter seems a more logical way to go and seems fair on both sides,in my oppinion.
I agree with your thinking, killer wise, but you also have to consider situations where only 2 gens have been done: with your solution the survivor cannot reasonably escape, only try to drag on the game or suicide, both being not very fun solution for either parties.
And yes I understand that "if only 2 gens are done, the killer deserves the 4k", but it is not always the case.
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btw it costs me nothing so... here's my opinion on how to change the hatch:
- Hatch spawns
- If the killer stays in a 28 meters radius of the hatch for 80 seconds (cumulative, they do no reset), the hatch despawns for 30 seconds
- After those 30 seconds, a new hatch spawns. It can be at the same place or a different one, it doesn't matter
- rinse and repeat
This way a killer can camp the hatch and "close it", but 80 seconds are enough to complete a generator, plus by respawning it in another location there's a reset of the active searching of it for both parties. A survivor is incentivized to do anything but to play the hatch standoff, since he would most certainly lose it, eventually.
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@Brady correct me if I've read you wrong, but are you stating that the hatch does not spawn unless the 3 boxes have been activated by the lever?
If so, you are simply changing the "hatch standoff" to a "chest standoff", where the killer is camping the chest containing the lever instead of the hatch.
note also that if the survivor manages to collect the lever, then the standoff is now at one box out of the three that are spawned.
..but it wouldn't be a standoff anymore in neither cases, in fact if the survivor is found he's dead - he can't insta-interact with anything to escape.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@EdysWhat makes something a side-quest; simple question inherently?
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Flowers refers to what I mentioned earlier. I said:
See the OP, but 1 thing changes: the generator transforms into a flower when a part is installed.Why would it matter if generators become flowers or zombies or a bit of common sense?
before their transformation in Tyrannosaurus Rex, you still need to accomplish the side quest produce and install parts
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there are no flowers in dead by daylight, sorry, stick to reality please.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Edys said:
You need a generator (remember the color scheme?).
The car is the generator.Producing a part is a side quest, deal with it and move on.
So I cannot complete the game through just parts and the flower?
yes you can: once you complete your side quest an alternative route is opened.
Still, you need to complete the side quest in the first place.
It's the same as a Hex Ruin.
Hex Ruin slow the progression of generators (indirectly). You can "complete the game" by fixing hexed generators or plain generators, but in order to do the latter you first need to complete the side quest "cleanse the hex totem".Why is it so difficult for you to just say "ok, building parts is a side quest"
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You need a generator (remember the color scheme?).
The car is the generator.Producing a part is a side quest, deal with it and move on.
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I can't believe you all are still talking about side questing lol.
You want to go to Rome (fix a gen).
You have a car. (mouse 1 button on a plain gen)
There is a plane that goes to Rome (a gen with parts installed on them), but you don't have a ticket for it (the parts that need to be installed).You can either take the car, or buy a ticket for the plane (producing a part and installing it) and then board the plane.
Buying the ticket is a side quest. Once the side quest is completed you open the alternative route to Rome. If you don't buy the ticket, you can still complete the main quest.
Now please, please, PLEASE stop this non sense everybody
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
What is an interesting afterthought to that is: Part of the fun, (which we haven't really discussed yet) is in the way crafting tables spawn/are available/how plentiful they are.
In a previous example I asked you if in order to gain a new item you would need to search a chest → tap a gen → search the chest again → tap a gen → repeat... you would enjoy it (I wouldn't).
This is what happens with the parts: even if there are multiple working bench, one can still go back to the same one, or even have to go back to the same one, depending on the overall positioning of killer and workbenches.A possible solution could be to spawn one working bench; once a part has been produced there, that same working bench de-spawns and another spawns elsewhere. Now there's an active search component in the mix. Of course the overall balance would need to change: a part could need more time to be produced (maybe even through co-op to speed it up) in exchange to a bigger increase in repair speed for part installed.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Doing a generators in the end game when there are few left in the end game is intense. In the early game; not so much.
I completely agree with this - in fact this is exactly what people complaining of "m1 holding simulation" are complaining about.
I also dislike the bear-timer and the mending, but I do like taking care of the dull-totems, which have a very similar timer and there's also running in between things.
and I agree with this as well, because it's not how much time one needs to accomplish the task the problem, the problem is what do you need to do, before reaching that part?
mending: literally nothing, you either are lucky enough that Legion is chasing someone else, or you simply can't mend at all.
removing a reverse bear-trap: use a wall-hack to locate where the jigsaw boxes are, then reach their spot and try your luck 1 to 4 times.
totem: search for a totem, decide if you want to invest 10 seconds for what is a dull totem but could help in the end game, or use that time elsewhere, if there's thrill of the hunt change your strategy (you can even try some mind game!) etc.It's not the debuff vs buff matter the problem, is the engagement in the activity that differs. Even sabotaging a hook is somehow more entertaining because there's a vague strategic component in it.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
As shown from the comments. People didn't mind doing totems (more M1) etc. The problem was that doing so wouldn't be them completing the main objective.
Again, let's agree to disagree - I mean, I can trust you that someone in the topic stated so, that doesn't mean this is the general consensus, nor my personal opinion.
Also, a shooter is not a button simulator because the "click" comes after (and during) "aiming", re-positioning, recoil correction and so on and so forth. Repairing a gen is a static endeavour, totem is static, healing is static... In fact the only "fun" parts come before and after those action (finding a gen / hiding from a killer coming / getting to a nice spot to heal your mate / searching for a totem...).
Yes, adding your mechanic increases the amount of time one is not holding m1 and is doing "something else", but is tedious all the same:
imagine that in order to take an item from a box you have to search the box, tap a gen, search the box again, tap a gen, search the box again... Yeah, you spend more time traveling but is it more fun? Not to me.In fact I think my two unfavourite things in the game are mending (...10 seconds...) and removing a reverse bear trap (...12 seconds...).
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
So I'm no longer trolling for stating the fact, right?Well it was based from a misunderstanding generated from my part so for now you're good
But there are 2 things about that:
1: It is not inherently what people complained about. (Which is simultaneously also not a real rebuttal to the idea of trying to break the trinity)Let's agree to disagree. I don't know what was posted in the topic you mentioned, but can we agree that the definition "dead by daylight is a m1 holding simulator" is broadly used and based on facts (I mean, you even demonstrated that something as trivial as unhooking is in fact a m1 holding simulator :P)?
2: That through such solutions that try to play around with moving variables are significantly less likely to ever tackle core issues with the game, where as the part mechanic does address core issues of the game; namely death-efficiency, and is one of the most perfect methods at doing so.
The core "issues" of the game are also part of its strength - and by the way I still think that your proposal is too survivor sided in a swf team, while too killer sided in a solo-team, especially at low ranks. Yes you proposed some ways to circumvent the problem, but I still don't see where a sweet could be, and to be fair I don't see a sweet spot at all. It's like legion, you can change frenzy duration / deep wound progress all you want, but the mechanic doesn't work anyway.
i don't know what is the "perfect" solution, I can only assume what I would like to see in the game, that is something entirely different. I would enjoy to try even your proposal, don't get me wrong, but just because it's something "new", not because it solves anything. That's just my opinion, of course.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
You can cancel unhooking. It's not on keyDown.you are right, I was thinking about "hooking", not "unhooking" but wrote the opposite.
Now that you understood better what I was talking about, do you get it or not?
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no, one event is a keyDown (unhook), one is a keyUp (generator/healing).
this is the difference between a m1 holding and a m1 pressing.
Gen tapping is still a keyUp event.The only exception is the struggle phase on the hook, but guess what... there's still a progress bar, and would be criticized just the same.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Unhooking is also a gen. It's a shorter gen LOL. It's all a progression bar; ranging from 0 to infinite seconds.and with this I'm now sure you're either trolling or really incapable of discussing with anyone, and I can't do anything for neither of the two.
Have a good evening -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Which means that everything opposite to this is you doing a gen. Sounds like a ridiculous definition.except that is exactly what you are not getting.
"doing a gen" in the context of this discussion is equivalent to "m1 holding". So yes, even "healing someone" is not that different than "doing a gen": which is exactly the point.You wanted a definition of something "different than doing a gen":
an objective that does not imply the holding of a button in order to be achieved.saving someone from a hook for example.
healing or cleansing a totem, instead, are basically "doing a gen", even with their difference on timing / skill checks / regression... they still are m1 holding. -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
I think you miss their point;No, I'm sorry but I'm sure you are missing theirs...
But again, feel free to ask them.
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@Free_Hugs said:
Sure.Off the top of my head, for a secondary objective, the killer has a gate key in their back pocket. A survivor must move behind the killer for at least 1 second to grab the key, which is then held as a secondary item.
A survivor must have a key to open an exit gate.
I second this.
A "true" new objective should be something that does not obey to the triad @AlwaysInAGoodShape arbitrarily defined as m1 / searching / picking up. There are other mechanics in the game as it is, like chasing (or hiding), staying in terror radius, blinding, stunning... , others may be created, or evolved from those. Perks already use this (think about the charging of Diversion, or the one of Deliverance), objective may as well.
The vast majority of the players which is complaining about the game being "a m1 simulator" don't care if it's a flower or a steak, they see the problem as intrinsic in the m1 holding. Splitting the m1 holding in shortest timing (that is: build a part - install it - fix gen) may not be what they want.
...for example in this topic a lot of the people participating feel this way.
You @AlwaysInAGoodShape can discuss semantics, meta-narrative and what not all you want, but you'd still be missing where they are criticizing you, and that's your loss - you won't be able to improve your idea by being so adamant in your way of thinking.