Nicholas
Nicholas
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- Nicholas
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Why do people always assume the negatives? There are times when someone is being tunneled and on death hook, I will gladly try to get The Killer's attention to keep someone else alive. If I have DS active and a friend is in trouble, that's not me being toxic, that's me being altruistic and smart.
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@MadArtillery said:
If you are last and slugged it's time to find hatch or crawl out a. Open exit gate. If hatch is closed and no exit gates are open I still can't agree though as it's just stealing points and possibly a pip from the killer at that point.
I've already addressed that, it would be optional. Not to mention the fact that you are awarded points for things you have already done, not things you may or may not do. Stating "stealing" suggests you are being deprived of something you are due. A Killer that slugs is no more owed points for killing than a Survivor that opens the exit gates is entitled to escape.
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@Cancan71 said:
Dammit, I spent a long time writing a post on this exact topic and someone bet me to it.
I would be in favor of something like this, but instead of bleeding out faster, I would do a vote so that all survivors would agree to surrender so a single survivor wouldn't screw over their teammates by killing themselves while the others had Unbreakable or something like it.
I saw it, was just gonna read it lol
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230158#Comment_1230158
Even so, if the hatch spawns nearby, that person has the chance to crawl out and escape. Same with an open exit gate.
Yeah, it's mainly there to be a path to move to the next match when it's hopeless. However there are some circumstances like perks and hatch and gates that would bring some hope and opportunity. People even forget Flip-flip and Boil Over, you may even wiggle free and reach the gate or hatch ;)
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230095#Comment_1230095
I'd be totally okay with that, personally, although it's definitely different from all the survivors being on the hook and in the struggle phase since there is nothing that could change the outcome of the match at that point.
(Also just to be clear, this isn't to say "This is happening". I can't promise that. I just wouldn't mind that as someone who plays the game.)
Nothing can change the outcome of someone without Adrenaline, Unbreakable or No Mither as the last one standing. Of course if someone has those perks, they can use them or wait (to earn Wiggle points?) or look for the Hatch. It would be a reasonable option in cases where you lack the aforementioned perks and it's hopeless other than wasting your time. So in that sense, I see no difference since the situation is the same and the stated goal would equally apply. Btw thanks for your insight and I totally understand that it doesn't mean this will happen. It may even be a bad idea for the health of the game, I tried to think of every point and can't think of any that justifies holding a Survivor hostage - especially as last one standing.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230104#Comment_1230104
Exactly. There are perks that just go unused when you insta-die, IMO, prematurely. I don't run Deliverance, but I do run DS. So if I happened to kobe, even if the killer was close, I would still have a chance at a stun and at least a bit more chase points. I think you get kind of cucked as the last guy, which is disappointing.
I also agree, you shouldn't be guaranteed a 4k. Thats not balance. But allowing survivors to bleed themselves out quickly or instantly, which could allow the last survivor the hatch, would just outrage the killer community. There would be multiple threads a day on how unfair it was and how the change needs to be reverted or the hatch needs to be removed. LOL
Yeah one way to make it more "fair" would be to limit the bleed-out option to when you're the last one standing. On the other hand, everyone will always complain about everything. Some other ideas could be to limit bleed-out until you're slug exceeds a certain threshold, like 30s. I do think there needs to be some freedom to accelerate your own death in some circumstances when your fate is sealed.
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@LALYTHIA said:
I wish the last survivor that got hooked, when everyone else is dead, had the same opportunities as every other hooked person in the match: kobe and struggle pts. In insta-bleed out would be nice, but killers would complain that it would remove their guaranteed 4k by slugging the 2nd to last person. 🙄 It would have to only apply to the last person alive and give the same pts as a hook if you didn't want to hear massive crying.
And Deliverance, for people that use that. As far as 4K, the game shouldn't make these an easy thing. There are risk and rewards, and one of those risks is someone may have Unbreakable or decide to bleed-out. So pick your poison, Hook the person to guarantee that kill or risk it all to get a 4K. It could make for an interesting Killer perk, a way for Killers to slow down the bleed-out during certain conditions.
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@Peanits said:
For slugging specifically, there are perks that could allow them to pick themselves up (Unbreakable, No Mither), unlike when you're in the struggle phase.
It would be a Survivor decision, like Hold L2 to "Bleed-out." That way the Survivor can still use Perks that may be active to use. Another example is last Survivor without those perks and The Killer decides to waste your time to do other stuff. You can now "get to the next match" without wasting minutes (not a mere 45s) by being held hostage any further.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1222728#Comment_1222728
Like I said before, DS's main purpose is to prevent tunneling. The developers specifically designed the perk to stop killers from hooking survivors who gotten unhooked at the worse possible time (something they had no control over).
However, the developers designed the perk in way that allows killers who didn't tunnel to get hit by the perk. Not directing this to you, but people in general, sometimes a perk doesn't work as intended. Needless to say, that doesn't change what the developers wanted DS to become, that being an anti-tunnel perk. If you do down someone from the hook and pick them up, you do take that risk of them having DS and wasting your time.
Knowing DS does its job [preventing tunneling] poorly due to the design of the perk, we can make it better by adding more conditions and make it more powerful against tunneling. 😄
Can you cite the source that DS purpose is to exclusively prevent tunneling? Because let's be real, it does a lousy job at tunneling. You can be tunneled beyond 60 seconds and you can be tunneled more than once per match. The existing iteration of DS isn't effective at dealing with tunneling.
Edit: quoted wrong person, I can't find who I was asking.
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@illusion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1224492#Comment_1224492
Not disagreeing with your assessment of old vs new DS, but having an obsession is just about irrelevant these days in determining who has DS. Most low tier survivors run DS and some will deliberately run an obsession perk.
Still, the OP has a point. DS is more than just an anti-tunneling tool that is was supposed to be.
Who said it's only supposed to do with tunneling? It's not even effective at dealing with tunneling, you can be tunneled twice per match and you can be tunneled beyond 60 Seconds.
@BigBrainMegMain that's a really good point, I've noticed some games without an obsession that it becomes free rein for The Killer to Tunnel hard and delete people quickly.
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Every time I see this happen it's because The Killer was extremely toxic. Including camping and hard tunneling so don't be surprised when you ruin the game for other people that the participants left in the trial are going to try to ruin your experience by wasting your time. This is a general you, I don't mean you specifically since I don't know the context of your match.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1223374#Comment_1223374
"i would say not having any fear of a killer is an issue tbh"
No. There is one perk in the game that removes some fear of the killer for a single minute of the match: DS. It was MEANT to be that way. It states it right in the perk description. It literally says: "There's nothing to be scared of." — Laurie Strode. In pretty much any horror movie ever, there is a victim who faces the killer head on and ultimate turns out to be the survivor. This is completely inline with the theme of this game and the DLC that released this perk. And it is a required perk to counter current rampant cheap game play by killers.
"it's not a 1v1, its a 4v1"
Great point, which is exactly why the killer can easily go for someone else. You don't HAVE to go for the person who is being freshly off hooked, nor do you HAVE to go for the person who was unhooked in the last 60 seconds. That's a choice. And if you make that choice, it only stands to reason that it should be risky. If you waste your own time because you tried to go for the low hanging fruit vs. give them a chance to play the game, thats on you.
This is also an assumption on your part that every single person is carrying both DS and BT. I admit, they are common perks, but I rarely have a match where every single person is carrying both of these perks. And there are killers, items, and offerings that allow the killer to insta-down survivors without having to even waste a perk slot to do it. A mori causes the killer to only do 30% of their job in a match. Tell me again how DS and BT - both mainly responses to poor game play tactics are unbalanced?
DS has never been a 100% anti-tunnel perk, and it shouldn't be. It works exactly as it is supposed to. The fact that you have to hit a survivor one extra time because you couldn't be bothered to flush out someone else in the course of 60 seconds or don't feel like running out the timer is dumb and entitled on the part of killers everywhere who seem to just want survivors to have zero useful perks against them...in addition to zero opportunities to escape chases...or the map in general.
Your last comment makes no sense. I know keenly the gen completion times, but your statement doesn't add up.
Wow 🤓
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Where was it ever said it was anti tunnel? Because you can be tunneled for more than 60 seconds and you can be tunneled twice in the match. So I never really considered it a perk to deal with tunneling. It can help with tunneling but it's not a remedy. I wish people would stop acting like the perk is so compelling at dealing with tunneling that it shouldn't work outside of it, the fact is it doesn't even really help with tunneling in the first place.
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I agree and the same rationale as to why survivors shouldn't be able to see The Killers gamertag applies in the reverse.
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The only thing that sucks about this situation is when either all of the survivors or camping the area trying to save and does nothing is getting done. Or the victims are accelerating the sacrificial process and then let go.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1218363#Comment_1218363
If this isn't a burner account and you aren't intentionally trolling then what does Legion have to do with DS? The two are completely unrelated. If you think Legion is overpowered (they aren't) then make a post about that in one thread. If you think Decisive Strike is underpowered (it isn't) then make a separate thread for that. Unless there is a link that I'm just not seeing.
Some fair points but don't act like your opinion about The Legion and Decisive Strike are authoritative and factual.
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Anti-consumer simply means not favorable to Consumers. It has nothing to do with the fact that you got something using either your time AKA your most valuable currency or your money. It would be nice if the game had a self-support option where if you purchased the wrong cosmetic or character and submit a request within 15 minutes it automatically reverses the transaction and refunds you. I think it's more of a limitation with the software and customer support probably doesn't have a mechanism to remove a character and credit you with another character.
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@Cheers said:
Do you mean BBQ and Chili? One of the most balanced perks in the game because you have to hook survivors for it to be even usable?
The closest we have for survivors if We're gonna live forever, which still grants bonus bp.
If you actually meant Judith's, it takes a long time to charge up, and rarely do I die to one.
It could be a lot more balanced as a tool to discourage tunneling. And the existing version provides free Deerstalker, imo BBQ should only work on healthy and injured State survivors. This would also eliminate the incentive to slug.
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I tried it and it's pretty cool, I just did the tutorial.
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Just because you've killed three people, doesn't mean you're entitled to kill the 4th. People need to stop acting like this game owes them anything. Games can never feel hopeless at any point for either side, if the outcome is predetermined at a certain point then there is no incentive to continue. That would simply encourage disconnects even more so. A lot of Killers think a 4K should be in the bag after they've killed three people but with that line of thinking, should an escape be guaranteed when the survivors have completed four generators?
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This is the pattern with these forums, when it's a Survivor experience that needs a remedy, you're told to get good or for people to do generators while you suffer. When it's a killer sided problem, perks have to be nerfed, adjustments have to be made and things have to be improved. The only perk I can think of besides BT is camaraderie. But even that honestly isn't that good. It only works during the second stage and I think off memory it requires another Survivor to be within a certain radius and it only delays 30 seconds?
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That's strange, I thought the twist of the story was going to be that you were trying to open it with a broken key. I remember a friend of mine go really excited because he said oh I found the key let's go get the hatch and we ran to the hatch and he couldn't open it and it was a broken key. We both died rip lol that's a weird glitch
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@Cheers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1213923#Comment_1213923
If the killer had a 3k, unless the three that died weren't good and the guy alive is amazing, even if the killer doesn't find the hatch, the killer deserves a 4k.
This is basic knowledge to me and many other survivor and killer mains.
It's not basic knowledge besides the fact that the developers disagree. The developers assessment is that you have to earn your Escape or kill, you're not entitled or deserve anything in the game. You could be the greatest killer in the history of the universe and kill three people in the first 30 seconds that doesn't mean you're entitled to kill the last person. You're not owed a kill and you don't deserve a fourth kill. People need to stop acting like the game owes them anything. I'm not suggesting that you think the game owes you anything and I understand your point of view.
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@Cheers said:
If the killer killed 3 survivors AND found the hatch first, you don't deserve to win. Simple as that.
Not true at all. That's a lot of assumption and that means the Killer is always entitled to get subsequent kills based on the number of kills he's previously achieved. It's much easier for the killer to find the hatch because I'm like the Survivor he can freely run around throughout the map to discover it. So that in itself is not a worthy criteria to determine that the killer deserves to get all four survivors.
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@shalo said:
The people working on the new MMR are the same people that can't fix the current system.
Embarrassing but true 😵
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Why did you feel it was necessary to accelerate the end of the match when everyone is on the struggle phase and why not allow us to accelerate our own death while we're slugged?
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I ran into this twice last night, the most frustrating was The Spirit because she was phasing for what felt like 2 seconds and she would teleport across the entire map. There was no time to react you would just get grabbed and then it would pause for a few seconds and you end up on the hook in the basement. The issue is when games reward lag, something that people can induce, there's an incentive to create lag conditions. Instead when The Killer is lagging that much, the survivors should get priority. The thing I've been running into quite often this week is extremely laggy Locker grabs. The Killer is way to the left or right of the locker or too far in front and then they instantly teleport and open it providing no opportunity to react.
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@Eradik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200180#Comment_1200180
What points? As killer, I break pallets as I go. Hatch is 250 points which I don't lose sleep over. Once hatch is kicked, can't kick gens. I'd rather get into another game.
That's what you do but sometimes people decide not to break pallets as they go. I understand some people want to get out faster, Survivors have that freedom but I just never saw any complaints from Killers about the struggle phase. Everyone I see uses the time to earn points or hit you. Yes including tasks like kicking generators, closing the Hatch, breaking pallets. People do what they want. I think a more pressing time sink is being held hostage to the match to bleed out for four minutes, let me accelerate my death so I can move on.
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Cat stuff would be cool.
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Maybe on projectiles don't allow favor the killer? That was painful to watch lol I've seen some hatchets go way off into my screen and then it still hits.
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On PS4, in-game chat would be extremely toxic and probably not worth it for them to implement bc they would need to moderate and manage it. I do however wish we had a basic system that announced what we were doing at the time of the button press. Some ideas: I'm cleansing the Hex Totem, I'm repairing a Generator, The Killer is near, I'm in a locker, I'm a potato hiding in a corner, etc. Just some basics to help get an idea what people are doing or seeing.
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He literally puts me to sleep. I just find going against him extremely boring.
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I agree that giving The Killer the advantage is painful but it does make the most sense as many games favor the hit. It's just not fun for the Survivor, and servers favor laggy Killers isn't ideal. The latency changes to minimize the desync between Killer and Survivor can't come soon enough. Hopefully it doesn't take years to implement.
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@Chaoutzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200683#Comment_1200683
You listed 3 perks. "countered by many perks such as..." No, not many perks, namely 2 perks that you listed. UB doesn't counter tunneling or camping. It's good if you manage to not get picked up, but like I'm saying, killer is rewarded wayy to many points for tunneling/camping. A killer who camps/tunnels one person will usually have more points in the end than a survivor who stayed on gens all game. You are almost required to run DS and UB at the same time to get the benefit of having another chance.
You're right; those perks don't do enough imo—especially DS which only works once. I don't think there is a way to completely eliminate camping or tunneling. I do, however, consider the game could implement some determent to discourage The Killer. Imo The Killer should always have the freedom and discretion to camp and tunnel if they want.
This issue reminds me of another major AAA title faced with one side engaging in behavior that wasn't an exploit, but it ruined the experience for the other player. They did some score and in-game "soft punishments" as they called it to deter the behavior but still allowing it. It was effective bc everyone stopped. The equivalent in DBD would involve points deducting at an accelerated rate in real-time during the match, capping the emblem at maybe Silver quality, bringing the Sacrificial Sequence to a crawl (perhaps 3x the standard rate) and providing a nice BP bonus to the victim, so they are encouraged to struggle. Idk what the anti-tunnel equiv would be bc the game is so different.
Let me clarify that I am not necessarily saying this is the solution for DBD. Each game and the devs have different goals they wish to advance. I am just posting the info bc I thought it was interesting for people to read and see how some other games have dealt with behavior, not at the level of getting banned but enough that they didn't want you doing it. I think camping and tunneling are in this category.
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@Cheeki_Beaky_Bird said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200180#Comment_1200180
I would consider a point in time where no player in the game is doing anything to further their objective a waste of time.
I don't play this game to see the pretty bloodpoint counter go up, I'd be playing an idle mobile game if that where what I where after. I'm here to play with and against people. To interact with, outsmart, and be outsmarted. Walking around kicking any gens that aren't regressing, and any pallets that where still in the dropped state, and maybe stomping on the hatch? Literally mashing my spacebar without paying any attention to what's happening on screen? There's no winning or losing to that. I'm not getting anything from it but imaginary bloodpoints. I'm not getting better at the game, or doing anything to try to out-think or out-play someone.
If this where such a concern, where where you before this change. Where you saying that when the last survivor is hooked, they should go through the full timer as normal? Did you find it outrageous that they wouldn't get their struggle bloodpoints (which where only recently added to the game) then?
That's your opinion and how you play but newsflash it's a BIG world out there and not everyone plays a game for the same reasons as you. If you find struggling a waste of your time, let go but the option is now eliminated for those that want to. There are people that love BPs, and go out of their way to get as much as possible per Trial. I don't see anything wrong with that.
What's advanced with this change? Potentially shaving a minute off at the end? It just doesn't seem like a worthy trade-off imo. While playing both roles, I almost always struggle and do stuff like close the Hatch during struggle phase. On your question, yes I do think the last Survivor should be able to attempt to escape or use Deliverance and fully struggle. However it's not something I ever felt strongly enough about to advocate over.
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No because you can still be camped and tunneled even during the EGC. There's always way too much advocating in favor of making things easy.
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@Cheeki_Beaky_Bird said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198954#Comment_1198954
There is no reason the killer should be forced to waste a minute of time or more while a survivor mashes spacebar repeatedly for the purpose of bloodpoints.
Waste? It's not a waste for me when I'm The Killer. I don't mind the opportunity to earn some extra points in the process. With that logic, the entire game is a waste of time. I just never viewed it as BM.
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1199065#Comment_1199065
You mean the perks that were almost used every match BECAUSE of gen speeds?
Don't get it twisted and sidetracked. My point was very narrow, what's another 60s in a game with many ways to prolong it?! I have np with slow down perks, but I don't see the need to get rid of the Struggle phase of the Sacrificial Sequence to "save time."
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What's the difference between PS4 and PS4 Pro editions? I never saw any patch notes listing the differences or enhancements. Most games offer high resolution, or improved frame rates. Curious what DBD offers.
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@Eradik said:
Oh my god people it's 800 bloodpoints. Cleanse a damn totem instead.
Lets be honest though, the only reason people struggle at the end is to BM the killer and waste their time. I cannot possibly believe that so many people care about 800 bloodpoints....
You really think people struggle to BM? lol In both roles, people just want more points. You have to take people at their word unless you can prove otherwise. As The Killer, I usually do a few last minute things for extra points or I just read the incoming hate mail from that Trial lol
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198954#Comment_1198954
Filled with ways to extend the match, like...?
In reference to the many slow-down perks and add-ons. It's an unnecessary change, was anyone complaining about the extra 60s?
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@Peanits said:
Basically when everyone is in struggle and nobody can possibly free themselves, it skips everyone straight to the sacrifice stage (much like when you hook the last survivor) so you aren't waiting around for a minute doing nothing and waiting for them to die. It won't change the actual gameplay, it'll just end the game when you can't possibly survive.
Why was this in need of a change? You're eliminating as much as 800 points to "save time" in a game filled with ways to extend the match. At that point, what's another minute? Especially since it allows The Killer to also get points by breaking pallets and even closing the Hatch. If anything, the last Survivor should also be able to struggle to the last drop for those points.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Try making sure your connection to the dedicated survivors are good, if it's green then you won't likely get hit through windows. If you don't know the timing between window vaults or what is a safe window vault and an unsafe window fault I suggest using spine chill and resilience or learning the timings.
Also, yes survivors can be laggy as well as the killer, that's the purpose of the little rectangle before the match starts, to show you whether or not you have a good connection to the server. I for one have fairly few cases of killers that are laggy, but I do notice an abrupt change when an automatic download pops up greatly reducing the speed of interactions within the game until I turn it off.
DBD devs revealed what many of us long suspected, the servers give the edge to The Killer. See https://www.twitch.tv/videos/551426466 @ 16:00 mark for an explanation of latency and how the game favors The Killer over the Survivor. So there's no connection to servers that can materially change this outcome. It's interesting how devs clearly are more sympathetic to Killers in this regard yet this forum is filled with people that complain they only care about Survivors. @Peanits points out how much of a "game changer" it would be if Survivors got the edge bc they could extend the Chase for another 30s but it's also painful for Survivors who could be on death hook and that lag hit in a window results in their elimination from the Trial. I wish they made it a top priority to address this.
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@FogNoob said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196040#Comment_1196040
But how exactly does the EGC favors killers? It only starts AFTER the gates are opened... just leave! If EGC started once generators are powered I would agree, but once you open the gates you won.. no need to stay back. If someone is injured or hooked just 99 the gates.. most survivors already do that.
In a last one standing I mean. The killer gets to see the lit up icon for the exit gates in perpetuity - making it super easy to go back and forth, they get to see any investment in an exit gate and all they have to do is guard the exit gate with some progress made and that's it. At that point in the match, it's too late for the Survivor to find the other exit gate and start progressing it. And because the killer gets full credit for the kill, he has no incentive to seek out the Survivor. Not to mention the spawn. I'm not going to get into the merits of who deserves to win and what should have been done before the match got to that point, the reality is matches do get to that point.
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I think the problem is that everyone assumes the endgame collapse is supposed to be a killer tool. The developers have made it clear it is not, it is there simply to bring the match to an end. With that said, I agree that the collapse heavily favors the killer in many many ways. And there are some situations where for example three people are together and they escape through the hatch with the key and then you're left behind? And maybe you're the one who did all of the gens or saved a lot of people or kept killer busy for an extended period of time? So now you can't escape because the killer can easily Patrol the two exit gates.
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It's already finalized and I wouldn't be surprised if the next two are nearly completed. I just wish they gave some sneak preview especially regarding who the killers and survivors will be for the challenges. It would be nice so that people can prepare to level up in anticipation of the launch.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194919#Comment_1194919
If you're gen rushed in 3 minutes, you as a killer did something wrong. As a survivor there's nothing you can do about getting insta downed straight after being pulled off a hook only to be mori'd. They don't give survivors the option to prevent another survivor from saving them.
I think we should be able to kick someone in the face when they try to unhook you and you don't want to be saved. Lately I'm running into people with borrow time at least but they are unhooking a millisecond after I got hooked and then I get tunneled use borrowed time and then have to use decisive strike. I don't understand why some people rush to unhook you that quickly.
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The perk is already complicated and has a long list of prerequisites. A lot of the ideas are from the perspective of The Killers experience but no one wants to talk about what the Survivor endures. This is the only perk that some what helps with tunneling and people want to add additional prerequisites and deactivation conditions. I'm fine with narrowing the reach of the perk to just tunneling but it isn't even effective at it right now. Where are the ideas to improve the effectiveness of DS at dealing with being tunneled?