NewPlayer100102
NewPlayer100102
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@KelMartigan said:
Hello, Iam just curious as this happened to me like 4-5 times in the last week. Even twice a day, once.
Its always in games where I have a good start as killer and quickly down and hook survivor after survivor, when I get disconnected from the game where it shows that everyone disconnected. I even got a penalty from one of these happenings the other day.
A few minutes ago, I encountered probably a 4 man swf throwing withered isle. I got 1 down quickly -> hook him on sourge. Someone else trades immediately on that scourge. They have 2 hook stages now, 1 injured surv and another on his way to the hook, unluckily running into me, dying. They should have like zeroi gen progress anywhere due to the scourges and me kicking a second gen before the hooks. Right when I want to pick the guy who ran into me up, I get like frozen in animation when the hand is right about to grab that surv -> disconnect.
Today, I started to record games like that. Is BHVR interested in the footage of games like that to find anomalies in like,... a game history of certain players? Maybe they can use that to analyze specified players games if that happens on a regular basis to killers playing against them. In my head I just like to think they have some meta data from games saved somewhere.
Or am I just paranoid? I usually have a stable internet connection.
Yes.
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Its been difficult to test the changes, because the only two options are survivors I can control by asking them to do or not do things, or public matches.
Controlled matches give a biased experience so it feels just fine under those conditions. It also strips away time pressure.
But in public, so many matches have a cheater or 4 now, its hard to separate what's intended from what's a manufactured outcome.
In an actual match all things considered I find no reason to drag the tail, and very little reason to use the tail between tiles. The drag weather over an object or to hit aside a survivor and drag through via strafe just doesn't hit often enough to make it worth the risk of the cool down. Added to that, in the open, its max range is extremely poor, its better to wait the fractions of a second and M1.
What it does do very well is hit animation locked survivors, survivors that check look the killer at a downed pallet or vault, and denies use of most clean short walled tiles(of which there aren't all that many) either via threat of an accurate tail hit over the object or simply because the survivor passes on the loop and feels forced to push toward a more traditionally strong looping structure.
It feels broken around window vaults when approached from a non-12 o'clock angle(so anything beyond about 10 degree deflection), these hits always seem to be rejected by the window tile.
If the tail had its range increased a touch, and it favored a strike on the survivor over object collision, I think it'd be a much improved experience.
That's just the tail concerns. The tunnels often spawn in messed up places when generator location is considered, it'd improve the mobility aspect of his kit if that was fixed. The tunnels are outright silly on maps with two floors, generator spawn dependent, I often just stop using them, its too slow on those maps. Maybe this could be fixed by letting the player control his orientation on exit of a tunnel, increasing speed in the tunnels or if nothing else increasing killer instinct duration on exit.
There are still places where you can see a survivor 100% in view and be unable OR be forced to take some wonky angle to hit the survivor. I think this is just the nature of DBD map objects.
I really like the turrets, they are powerful, they open up a lot of loops that were denied but they require either communication to use OR thoughtful consideration of their location AND the survivors predetermined path to an escape loop. I'm not sure if the time invested in placing them well, is worth it match timing considered from the survivor side(Its very hard to find a Xeno to match against in public games.).
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561090#Comment_3561090
I do not think me putting "DBD console killer" on my business card is likely to impress. 🤪
It demonstrates a willingness to work with broken tools to do the job as requested.
Hard to find that level of dedication in the hiring pool recently.
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If they couldn't quit, they'd be slaves, or interns..
Volunteers can quit.
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@Tsukihi said:
With the implementation of the Anti-Face Camp system, the killer's actions are restricted and the gameplay experience is greatly reduced. Could you please add more measures to help killers play the game comfortably?
Yes you are.
You have volunteered to be the challenge that 4/5s of the players signed up to overcome.
Put it on your resume.
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@EternalRique said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561047#Comment_3561047
Thwack on Nurse is god-tier.
👍️
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
And in the meantime UW got released. Maybe you should take a hint that BHVR is forcing for an interactive heavy playstyle for both sides. UW has even lower skill floor than MfT AND it benefits mobile killers much more.
All games have meta, sometimes the meta is slow and boring (gen kick meta), other times more exciting. ANd during those metas not every survivor/killer/champion/character/fighter is meta.
With UW, you have to find a locker, all by yourself. It does not come looking for you.
With MFT the killer assists you in activation.
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@EternalRique said:
Something about this perk need to be done; longer cool down? Make it only activate after a hook similar to Thwack? Something.
Provides too much information unearned and it's horrible on Nurse/Oni (in his power)/Spirit/Blight/Wesker.
I feel one good way to fix the perk would be to make it like Thwack.
"I feel one good way to fix the perk would be to make it like Thwack."
You want them to adjust a perk to be just like a perk no one uses?
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@Wowie said:
because fixing her hitboxes would be "unbalanced" or something
they said it in a Q&A once
funny that DS and trickster can have precise hitboxes tho
I think its only Huntress that gets this bonus.
It was explained to me as, only she gets target preference over environment with her hatchet, but i've seen images that asset her hatchets simply have a HUGE collision box around them. Hardly matters, she, in plain terms plays different from other ranged, melee+ types.
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It works.
If you stay up in their face, they can get off.
Success!
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@Neprašheart said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559734#Comment_3559734
I don't understand the first point.. „to be able to hit Survivors behind it“? As in, it was possible to hit survivors with the tail attack even if they weren't within the killer's POV, or .. What? I am really confused now.
If the talk attack didn't match the collision back then, I'd like to know if the current tail attack matches it.. Because it's literally quite a mess.
You could back the Xeno's ass up to a survivor and hit them while they were behind you. This no longer works.
As of today, the tail attack approximates its visual better than it did yesterday. You can still use it(or abuse it from the opposing side) to have the tail graphic go through the survivor and have no hit register.
Due to the difference in his POV and his tail hit origin in runner mode you can still hit things you can't see, sometimes.
Due to object collision you can still be unable to hit a survivor you can clearly see.
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Blight.
Wesker.
These are fun and inspire working to win against, they feel fair and usually not frustrating.
So I'd balance around those.
I'd say Huntress for ranged, but I really don't like/can't get used to her axes and their hitboxes, it feels like I have to go too far beyond an obstruction to be clear of a hit.
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I haven't been able to find one to play against in weeks.
He's still fun to use but suffers from some easily applied counter.
SWF using the turrets is super annoying.
The tunnel system is confusing on maps it works well on and not worth using on maps it works poorly on.
There are spots on most maps that a survivor can sit and the tail will not hit them.
His ability to counter an efficient gen focused teams is just average or below average.
There is no reason to drop Wesker, Blight, Nurse, Oni, Spirit or whatever in that range for this.
There is little reason to swap to this from any other killer you have invested skill building in.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557872#Comment_3557872
It's better many times to prioritize doing gens over getting healed. Self-care quite often encourages healing yourself over doing gens even when it would be better to just finish the gen.
Yes.
Its not a win perk.
Its a learn perk, as I see it.
The basic math behind why its bad is pretty clear.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557872#Comment_3557872
Awful numbers and even if it didn't have awful numbers there's a lot of times that you just shouldn't waste time healing yourself when you can be doing gens. Sure if you're an extremely selfish hatch maxer who is willing to grief their team then yea no downside, but the perk was actively worse than an empty perk for most players when it was at 50% but at 30% or whatever it is it's basically unusable if you're trying to win a match.
And that's ignoring how common sloppy is, which singlehandedly doubles the heal time on the perk.
Yah
Its not efficient and you can't win by being non efficient.
But, for new people, learning maps is about repetition this perk(potentially) lets you have some control of the lessons.
Regardless of what your team is doing.
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@Steakdabait said:
It amazes me how attractive of a perk selfcare is for new players. I really hope they just pity buff that perk so new players aren't unknowingly handicapping themselves lol
I'm going to regret asking this...
Why is self care a problem?
If you play solo. You already know its likely one of your friends will not be on the escape objective.
If you take a hit and drop chase by taking a strong loop, you can go to a dead zone alone and recover to practice the whole thing over, against most killers.
More chances to run loops and memorize the map. I don't see why self care is an issue, when you're single player focused.
Yes, I see it takes longer to heal yourself vs having a team mate do so, but often when playing alone that isn't going to happen.
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@supersonic853 said:
I guess the face of the perk is to make struggling more effective against the killer. But with a handful of maps what would be "difficult" becomes impossible. Especially with combined builds, forcing a death on the only hook in one corner of a map, or just bad map design in general inflated by map offerings being played(midwich and badham). So what would be the best approach. Going through every map to make a better spread so this never happens in the first place and future proofs any future perks that have to deal with struggle mechanic?(Also have of these maps would need such a change anyway. Midwich can have 90% of the hooks on the same floor. Making a unhookable area easily.) Reworking the perk? Or leaving it how it is?
(Its very unhealthy to just be left as is. But i don't face it to much. Although going to Ormond or Badham and having no option but play slug simulator for minutes at a time makes the game very boring)
Edit:(Forgot to mention. Boil over is known to target console players out over PC because of the way killer movement works on console. Making the perk inflated based on your platform. So do with that what you will)
Reduce bleedout timer to 1/2 of base value.
So, when there is a boilover player, they only have to wait 2 minutes to leave and harass another killer.
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I can fix this.
When the killer loads in, its special is separate from its visual representation and the special is randomly selected from the list of available specials.
So, in one match Wesker can bound. Next match he has traps.
This will fix your issue. Promise.
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@xEa said:
Hello
First of all before survivors jump on my throat: No, survivors are not more powerful then killer. If any, the matchmaking in pub is even or more likely killer sided - at least in terms of numbers. I dont want to debate that either. Second, i am not a killer main, i play on average 60% survivor and 40% killer.
But
Have you ever loged in DBD, intending to play killer, sitting there and thinking through witch killer to play and eventually switching to survivor (or closing the game) because you cant decide with what killer you want yourself stress out the next 5-10 minutes? This happens to me from time to time.
It almost feels like i am a little terrifyed even in advance to play that role. Dont get me wrong, i win most of my killer games, but sometimes alone thinking of it feels odd.
If you ever had this feeling, and i am sure some probably know what i am talking, why is that?
What makes playing killer so unpleasent? Or even the thought about a certain match?
And what is the solution to that problem? We are not talking here about "Buff killers", because that is surely not the issue, but rather how to make the game more enjoyable for us/them.
Kind regards
Well because as you said, in all situations the killer is more powerful than the combined survivors. If you fail in the killer role, its all your failure. And you failed when you held the winning hand to start. Failing as a killer means you're bad, and then twice bad!
Opposed to the survivor role where you can blame the other survivors, or even better, a tunneling killer, who face camps, and has OP perks!
I find the solution in skill building and expectation setting.
When the match starts I want to do a thing, it may not be killing the survivors, it might be figuring out how to use alien's tail. And that is what I'm going to do. I won't M1 anyone, I won't chase anyone in a tall walled loop, I won't hook anyone(wastes time). So I set the goal and I do that thing, I meet my goal and I learn and feel like I succeeded.
You might play a match and discover you suck on garden of joy. Your next ten matches you might run the map offering to get better at the map.
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@Atom7k said:
I get that playing with your friens is super fun.
But on the killers side it quickly can become a nightmare.
Dead by Daylight already has a lot of information for survivors. (HUD) Perks and maps/keys can further enhance this. I think the amount of information a party of 4 talking via discord is way out of the range.
With discord teams perks like for example ko and hex: the third seal become completly useless. Teams can constantly call out where the killer is, which way he is heading, which pallets are dropped, where the generators are located, the position of totems, the position of chests, the position of the basement, invisible killers or calling out which way the killer is facing for the flash light safe. Further hex plaything becomes very useless as the targeted survivor can simply inform the others about the perk and they can look for the totems on different positions of the map at the same time.
Also survivor can callout positions for healing, bodyblocking who is running for the gate, which locker are you hiding in, which generator are you repairing and so on.
This is quite a lot of benefits for a team compared to playing with only 1 friend yet playing alone.
If you play killer in a "fair" (survivor rules) way (which is my intention most of the time) you will get no kill in the entire game with a discord team.
Instead of boosting solo queue players (which already happened when the hud started displaying survivor actions) I think its time to nerf the advantage of a discord team.
I am not entirely sure how to do that as most of my ideas are too drastic but it could start for example with giving them less time on the hook stages. As camping becomes impossible with the upcomming patch this would put more pressure on a team. Generators could need 10 % more time to repair, hooks longer to sabotage etc you get the idea.
Something needs to change however. Having a tactical strike team as killer just adds up frustration as you barely get anything out of the game.
I dont think playing solo queue and playing with 1 friend is anywhat comparable to full prepared strike team with a battle plan made before the game and having all builds in synergy.
The community is very reluctant to discuss changes of any type to this system and determined to understate the advantages a SWF provides.
That's okay, if you play the game for a month, you're basically ensured to start forming your own SWF via the in game friends feature. And just using that, you'll be able to see the advantages for yourself, even if people with thousands of hours take those advantages for granted.
This is a lot of what makes survivor enjoyable on various levels, you really can't regulate it, or as you said "nerf" it. Its required for the game to keep being available.
But, as others indicated you can learn to play around it, use it sometimes to your advantage, or as I said, maybe try it out yourself?
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This would be a bad change.
Standing in front of the hook playing arms up arms down...
Was not good game stuff.
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Its avoidable with calm spirit.
Sort of like avoiding the annoyance of never being able to find a survivor squatting in a bush is possible with ultimate weapon.
It doesn't work like a normal info perk(BBQ and chilli), those show you the survivors direction of motion, allowing mobility killers to intercept with an impossible to dodge hit.
As a survivor you know when the standard info perks will be used, so you adjust your(primarily) range from the killer at those moments. The game forces a predictability onto the killer that survivors get used to.(I know I do).
Ultimate Weapon doesn't allow that, the killer can randomly open a locker whenever, wherever as long as the map allows.
Its annoying, thats why I think its been tagged as OP and needs adjustment.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556429#Comment_3556429
You can still do that, but the question with the such a system how long do you and the killer have to play tug of war before it should stop, if the Killer is 3 genning from the start.
@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556429#Comment_3556429
You’re 1 in a million mate. Never ever have I seen anybody kicking their feet excited for having to be playing chess in Dead By Daylight for 40 minutes, especially as a solo (majority of players). If you like that, don’t worry… Add me and we will have the craziest fun custom games for you. I offer myself as the killer :)
It gives something to do in the match related to the game as a whole. Its also not every match as many killers seem to ignore gen spawn grouping.
Even without communication most people get that on certain maps a tiny 3 gen will form, and if the killer applies the gen defense concept you don't lose when he hits you, you lost when you started because you made the map a tiny 3 gen for him.
Its a challenge its something to do, if you push him hard, you'll likely die and the game won't take 40 minutes. Try again, do your best to avoid the formation of the situation.
I find it a fun playstyle, Its also not that common of an approach, way less than 50% of my games feature a heavy area lock down.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557093#Comment_3557093
Dude…. SWF does not equate to a harder match. That’s the biggest misconception. MOST SWF’s are no better than your average solo Q team, maybe even WORSE because they are more prone to the circle of altruism.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557235#Comment_3557235
Yes, please do! 🥹
SWF is better as in it competes better.
If it was not better, you would see tournaments organized by randomly pulling players from a pool of people that want to play.
This isn't worth arguing over for two reasons.
Its an insane assertion.
Its also the reason the primary question keeps coming up. When you dismiss the valid experiences of players with a hand wave and "They're actually weaker", the player is going to get angry.
The points about altruism are of course true, and if you're trying to show new players the way, sure it clearly lies in exploiting a SWF determination to have 4 out.
But that doesn't make it easier or even hint that such adjustments equate to an enjoyable new play style for either side.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557132#Comment_3557132
You are missing the point. there is a better counter to sloppy than your sacrificing 2 perks idea. All i need is a SWF or friends i can communicate with earlier and 1 boon COH.
My friends would rush the boon area and we heal faster than anything else in the game.
We are discussing the disparity this creates specifically in soloq. which is what i play mostly and im sure many people share this gameplay style. Soloq temmates tend to be selfish and bring selfish perks ( Left behind is quite common would you believe it sometimes, plus haste perks adrenaline...ect)
Your suggestion is entirely dependent on the random team i will get in soloq. hoping they would bring well make it and botany to help me not get tunneled while injured if i dont bring medkit syringe ....
i hope you understand what i am " complaining about " .
I think the counter You're looking for is:
Don't get hit.
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No we don't need it.
But, they want it a lot, so like a new car at Christmas, they get one.
=)
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@HugTechLover said:
No, you can not opt out of SWF. You have never been able to. You cannot currently do it. You will never BE able to. This has been made very clear by devs. Idk why this thread comes up so often.
You cannot punish people for playing with their friends.
It comes up because people do not want to do it.
It will keep coming up until the game is shut down because people will never want to do it.
The rationalizations on both sides are sad.
SWF is a harder match.
Killer is not compensated for the work and most don't enjoy it.
Messing with the status quo on the topic threatens income.
So OFC, this won't be changed.
The community could however say " Yah, its harder cause coordination and familiarity, so you have to work harder to entertain them."
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No. Please don't do this.
When I have fun as a survivor it usually involves approaching that one static problem gen on a 3 gen tending map and figuring out how to get rid of it.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556136#Comment_3556136
“The problem with losing as killer is that it feels like a slowly twisting knife” man yall exaggerate💀
“If the killer slugs you, you can just go watch youtube for 4 minutes or play on your phone while you wait.” Ok then go watch youtube when you get your losing lmao if your solution to bleedouts is just watching youtube then do the same when you play killer
The survivors have a rage fit if you do that, because they don't get any chase points, altruism points. This is a great way to suddenly have your internet fail.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555650#Comment_3555650
One of the biggest problems with Xeno is its camera point of view. Xeno is super tall in normal mode, but BHVR gave this a normal height point of view. So then when Xeno goes into crawler mode, it’s stuck with a lowered point of view, which ends up confusing many people, because its tail attack isn’t based around this lowered point of view.
It honestly would be much better if Xeno’s point of view were a bit higher than normal when it is in the super tall normal mode, then Xeno would drop down to a normal point of view in crawler mode. This would make the attacks make way more sense from Xeno’s point of view.
Then BHVR could use aim dressing to fix the tail’s placement on the survivor’s screen, if a hit occurs.
If BHVR did these things, then we wouldn’t have so many issues where people don’t understand where to aim Xeno’s tail. I imagine that people that rely on tail dragging, will just miss some of their tail attacks, on crouching survivors or turrets, because instead of aiming correctly, they’ll aim over their target, will end up hitting the ground before they hit their target, then the attack fizzles so they end up missing the tail attack. I’ve seen so many people aim incorrectly on low targets, and it’s just sad. People just don’t seem to understand that Xeno sometimes needs to angle their camera dramatically downwards, to hit a low target with its tail.
His camera position in the three situations that I commonly see would benefit from examination.
In crawler mode, its too low. Can't see over bushes, maps like the swamp feel terrible to play and oddly matched to his tail strike zone. In walk mode I don't see an issue with raising it, aside from the increased FoV in that plane around short walls vs ducking survivors and tall walls during loop stuff. But they sound like welcome changes.
His other view mode is runner POV with the standing graphic because of how his body reacts when close to objects. This view and avatar combo seems to be just wrong and it interferes with survivor counter play at objects.
His tail still presents survivors with some situations that feel totally broken. And although the ability to drag it has many uses, it does solve most of the issues I've seen where survivors can be 100% in view but completely safe from a hit, due to object collision.
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Its also pretty fine for the OP to express their dissatisfaction with the game and see who agrees.
In all seriousness, the post is about a common but unpopular sentiment related to the game, its defiantly helpful to discuss it.
I'd appreciate if these posts didn't devolve into skill issue acquisitions or coded personal attacks about the players personality.
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@Evan_ said:
It's a good idea, but the survivor should also burn to death.
This is a good idea.
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@CatnipLove said:
Don't let the toxicity get to you. If you spend too much time focusing on it, you will just end up hating the game and despising everyone you play against.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555172#Comment_3555172
The OP has clearly had some bad matches. Why would you try and gas them up? That's not helping them, you're actively trying to make them more frustrated. You might as well tell them that the survivors were insulting their mother too, if the goal is to make them feel worse.
I honestly don't see it that way, and I hope you don't mind me mentioning it.
If you play a killer a lot, you will get attacked. The in game T-bagging is the least of the fun times you'll encounter. If you plan to keep at it, watching how a SWF conducts themselves during a twitch stream is an essential component of your education.
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This argument is so old...
OFC both sides should know if they're stepping into a competitive match.
They don't let you know about SWF up front because unless you're in the mood to fight, the killer will just pass on the lobby.
Those brave souls would be waiting like an hour for a match after a month.
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I saw one, and he lost.
And we felt really bad for winning.
So, if the goal was to depress everyone via killer design, they nailed this one. Killer sad he lost. Survivors sad they picked on a handicapped individual
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@Trex_Crazy said:
Since they added base kit bt, and the little speed boost, after unhook. The unhooked survivir tends to block fo their savior who is usually full health. I know some people dont like that fact and I di think its a bit odd and an unintended consequence of attemting antitunneling mechanics. The only issue, which isn't really an issue as it tends to lead to free wins, that arises is if a unhooked survivor gets in my way I just end up eating the endurance then downing them again. Some of the people have complained about tunneling but at that point you're asking for it if you're impeading my path to my only other known target. Thoughts?
The world needs more tunnels.
Always tunnel.
Unless you're Blight. That's bad tunnel.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555587#Comment_3555587
That scenario requires an upward tail drag, because the game yanks the camera downward if Xeno tries to do a tail attack at a steep upward angle.
Below is a screenshot from when I connected an attack with Jake, who was on the floor above. The tail itself doesn't look like it's angled high enough to reach the floor above.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y8Q0RT6FKEU1/image.png
Below is the yellow tail graphic that appeared shortly afterwards, which didn't match the tail's actual location at all.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D7WAM3S1LFXN/image.png
And here's a before picture, which shows that Jake was actually visible from this angle. Disclaimer... I bumped up the brightness of the picture, because he's barely visible in the actual video.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6LPBCBBJ2S9X/image.png
1) I'm wondering if the tail attack actually starts behind Xeno, (I thought of this because I think one of the bugfixes stopped Xeno from being able to hit survivors behind it, and I was wondering what could have possibly caused that).
2) Anyways, I'm guessing BHVR didn't expect anyone to try to make a tail attack this vertical, so they never tried to get the tail graphic to match the attack in this scenario. …Or maybe Xeno’s camera got yanked because someone at BHVR realized that sharp vertical angles make the attacks look bad, and they were hoping the camera yank would stop people from making attacks like this?
If the other player stands in the Xeno's lower half , the tail will hit them, and the Xeno player won't know it.
The PTB says this is fixed. It was apparently a game breaking exploit.
I don't see any real application for either the vertical or ass attacks.
being able to drag the tail horizontally and vertically would be ideal, because as it is now there are some places where survivors seem to be 100% safe from it while still clearly able to be hit. I think the easiest fix would be if it flexed a bit.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555548#Comment_3555548
You should look at the below screenshot, that is from Xeno's point of view, while not in crawler mode. That is the point of view that matters, because the tail's attack is based on the middle of Xeno's screen, as it is shown while not in crawler mode. Look at how much of the survivor is visible.
Remember that Xeno has a lowered point of view in crawler mode, and that the tail's attack isn't based on the lowered point of view.
After going back and trying to hit over that wall, aside from the stacked boxes which block LOS in either camera position you can hit a standing survivor without dragging. Pulling down never seemed to hit, curve, or linger on any object on the map.
Pulling up had an effect.
This does not hit. Although the tail graphic passes through the survivor head.
This does hit a half a second later.(although the killer could not see the target, he just kept increasing his angle off target, this is almost 90 degrees from his Pov.
I think the tail does not bend. I think it is very out of sync with what the survivor sees. And I think the up hit works because He just shorted the distance while increasing the angle.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555536#Comment_3555536
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4S9KDA4HYQZ5/image.png
That is what the survivor looks like when Xeno isn't in crawler mode. And considering that Xeno's tail attack starts higher than the middle of the screen (from Xeno's point of view while in crawler mode), then it makes sense that Xeno should be able to make this shot.
When you try to figure out if Xeno should be able to make a shot, you should look at Xeno's point of view, while not in crawler mode, because that would give you a much better idea of what shots it should be able to make.
It also helps when the survivor is uninjured, to give a better idea of what the survivor's hitbox looks like. Remember that injured survivors have the same hitbox as uninjured survivors, and the fact that the survivor is leaning forward, doesn't actually change their hitbox. This means a survivor's hitbox might be in a killer's field of view, even if the survivor isn't visible in the killer's field of view.
She wasn't injured, she was facing the attack, her hit box was the capsule vertical, as in line with the body as it ever gets.
I do know each object in the game has some collision thing around it. For whatever reason, that thing doesn't match with its graphical representation. So, to figure out how to use Xenomorph, you have to go to each object and toss the tail around it.
The question was does it linger and hook down now? I have no video clips of it doing so, and it gets very complicated because the object collision in a lot of places is very different than its graphical representation.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555061#Comment_3555061
Yeah, but when he threw the tail, he threw over the bench and dragged down. I can't quite tell but it also looks like the survivor crouched, because I can't see them over the obstacle.
Without a visible map of the hitboxes, its hard to tell for sure, but that looks a lot like dropping the tail hitbox to me.
Plus as I say, this isn't the example I wanted to find, but I can't the one that pulls it over over the barricade in RPD.
Would be happy to see a custom game where someone labs it.
The circle is the survivors bun and head.
One second later the tail hits.
It looks like the tail goes through the two desks.
This is the only hit I consistently land over a tall wall.
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Nope.
Just leave it alone, the more they remove the more predictable and boring this gets.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554638#Comment_3554638
This is the thing that most don't understand ... or don't WANT to understand. This was not a rollback, it was a nerf on top of said rollback. And they messed in some undisclosed way with the tails hitbox. I haven't played the Alien much since then, but it surely doesn't feel strong and accurate enough to warrent this massive counterplay and deletion of its power by tools that never run out.
I have played him exclusively since the change and it feels very different. Bad different, trying to explain it here is likely to result in a skill issue attribution of the concerns, so, I don't much waste my time with detailing the ability and how it interacts with the environment.
But, I will say, at this point the whole Xenomorph package feels pretty bad. It felt nice enough to motivate a purchase on the PTB, and very special for 5 mins on live...
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533147#Comment_3533147
I've still seen zero evidence that dragging Xeno's tail attack causes it to curve. Any attack I've seen done by tail dragging, looks like it could have been done without the tail dragging.
I swear it did on the PTB, I had a streamer scream fck when I did it around a corner, and I think on live for a short bit over RPD walls I was using it as such.
But, once they changed the cooldown the tail drag became limited to vertical.
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@dbdthegame said:
-signed by every Blight main. Red Forest dework is absolutely atrocious and made the map MORE survivor sided. Borgo has endless areas where you cannot bump into anything. Toba is full of garbage that cuts every rush short. Reworked Shelter Woods somehow killed the collision for Mac realm and made the trees as bad as Yamaoka in terms of inconsistency.
But Nostromo. Nostromo is a slap in the face of any Blight player that's ever drawn breath. The main is literally entirely covered in butter, it is quite literally impossible to use your power effectively here. Any wall you rush into will cause you to pluto yourself.
Why is this acceptable? Who is in charge of QA?
They did this on purpose right?
Its the much demanded Blight nerfing.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553698#Comment_3553698
I mean you can dodge it on prediction, that I can agree on. How ever there are very rare cases where such is required on Xeno's end.
The Scott thing was simply to showcase footage of somebody dodging it just like you said, it just wasnt on reaction.
I mainly hold this opinion because of another game that I play, being For Honor of which I have over 2k hours, (DbD I have over 6k hours). It being a heavily reaction based game has taught me a thing or 2 about 'reacting' and 'reading'.
Some things can be a read which then leads to a reaction, which is precisely what Xeno is. If you turn a corner and Xeno has to ready his tail before he turns the corner to get a last second hit, you can read that he's going to go for it, and then react to him turning the corner. At the end of the day how ever, thats still a prediction, one of which is heavily in Xeno's favor and doesnt feel good at all on the Survivor end.
Spirit and Slinger as mentioned before are 2 killers who were in the same boat as Xeno and were able to come out just fine. No reason to believe the same cant be said for Xeno
Changing the relationship(timing) between his strike and coil up would make survivors feel like they have more agency over the outcome?
Maybe? Sure... if they want to experiment with those elements of the ability, I don't have a tested reason to complain.
The issues I do have with the special have very little application to its use in an open field.
Also, I've been warned about arguing about changes based on historical performance of such changes. So I simply can not approach the topic.
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You can dodge it. I know this because I worked on dodging it.
Anyways, I understood your point from what you wrote in the previous post. Your writing was perfectly clear. However, Scott Jund stating the same thing in a more autistic fashion does not change what I participated in.
I think, we are just going to disagree on this topic. Weather we define dodge differently, make different assumptions about intelligent tail use, or hold different media figures in mind as authorities on the topic, doesn't much matter, because we disagree on too many points to even found a discussion on the topic.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553128#Comment_3553128
Because other than Huntress, these killers all have fast wind up times and hit speed which makes them practically impossible to dodge. The reason why we think were able to is because each of these killers have obvious sound cues and animations, but realistically as a Survivor you didnt dodge it because youre good, you dodged it because they simply missed. Think of it like one of those ticket arcade machines where you have to time it just right to hit the jackpot, how ever no matter how good your timing is, the game is rigged.
So why is Xeno complained about more than the others despite actually having the slowest hitspeed out of the 3 killers mentioned before (Nemesis at roughly 333ms, Huntress at roughly 190ms or 120ms with a fully charged hatchet without any add ons, and finally Slinger at also 120ms) at 400ms.
Put yourself in this situation, all of these killers already have their powers wound up, and you are told to dodge it at what is basically point blank range. Its basically impossible right? Well so is Xenomorph, but as said before, he technically is the slowest so why is he complained about the most? Its simple, a lack of feedback for Survivors. To them, him simply being in Crawler Mode is the equivalent of a Huntress already with a hatchet up, Nemesis with his tentacle up, or Slinger adsing. Instead of being given the illusion that its possible to dodge like the others with obvious sound and visual cues, you are given basically nothing.
A perfect example of a killer having their complaints completely die down after just giving Survivors feedback is Spirit. She was probably the most complained about killer for years, and eventually they changed her to not only tell when shes phasing, but also made it directional. Now was this change a nerf? Without a doubt yes, how ever it didn't change her spot on the tierlist because at the end of the day she still has more information on you than you do on her, while moving at a much faster speed. She didnt change in viability, but how frustrating she is to go against went down drastically. Without giving the same explanation, the same can be said with Slinger when they increased his ADS time from 250ms to 400ms.
So what could we do with Xeno to make him less frustrating? Increase his wind up speed, but decrease his hit speed. That way he becomes much less frustrating to play against but retains his viability.
The tail can be dodged. I recorded a lot of it being dodged. I just kept swinging and the player kept dodging. That is what happened.
You don't agree. However, I can not change the events I participated in. Nothing said will undo the tail being dodged. Across a car, easy dodge. Smash the duck button. Down the Midwich hall, a little harder, have to pick right or left.
I have no suggestions for any changes to the Xenomorph.
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@appleas said:
STBFL + Rapid Brutality lessens the impact if you are a M1 Killer
I tried this... A lot of times.
You can literally be looped for near to forever with rapid brutality, around seeming simple objects, like cars.
I want to like this perk, I can't make use of it as it is.
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I don't understand what these have to do with the topic.
@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552992#Comment_3552992
Let me ask you this
Assuming its the number 1 player of each of these killers, can you dodge Nemesis' Tentacle, Huntress' Hatchet, or Slingers Harpoon?
I don't understand what these have to do with the topic.
Two are ranged attacks, one of which can hit you twice across the map fractions of a second apart.
That is not related to how the Xenomorph works. Maybe with Nemesis, we have a relationship.
So.
Yes from what I've seen and from quick feedback via quizzing the locals on the topic under similar setups you can dodge these, except huntress, because of her hatchet hitbox and this is all range dependent.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552608#Comment_3552608
If a SWF is part of that growth path, I would assume the soloQ would want to do that.Playing in a SWF is not inherently playing better, it's playing different.
Let me use pickup sports vs organized teams. An organized team would beat a pickup team barring radical difference in player skill, but that's not because the team is inherently better players, they are playing a different game.
Organized teams spend a lot of time not just working on teamwork, but working on where you fit with a specific group of individuals. This is one of the reasons even if they added comms it wouldn't suddenly bring soloq up to the SWF level.
In pickup sports part of the fun is having different teammates every game. Sometimes you might be a strong player, sometimes weak. Maybe your role changes on what you are doing. Part of the skill, and joy, is the variability that style of game brings.
Both versions bring different skills and different types of enjoyment. Neither is inherently right or wrong, better or worse.
It somehow feels a little misplaced in its punitive focus to hold back balancing simply because some players have other people phobia.There's lots of reasons beyond just "people phobia". Mine is that I feel it would really ruin the game's immersion. If someone tells me on chat that the killer is headed my way and I can get a jump on them before I even heard the terror radius, yeah, that doesn't sound very fun.
This I feel confident in saying outright is wrong.
SWF is better.
You know the people you are playing with to a degree and you know what they tend to do, even without passing a word or line of chat, its better. This topic has been resolved by the community. I can't add much to it, aside from saying here, its an advantage, so we could continue the other aspects of the conversation.
As for the end of your comments.
Yes, I agree. The game is more fun when the competitive aspects are removed. This game works best when its just a murderer and some victims running away. I think only a few people would argue that hyper competitive DBD is the superior experience. But this whole thing was about balancing around the competitive aspects, not about restoring the game to a classic experience.