MrMori
MrMori
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When there's nothing good to be said, nothing is the goodest you can say.
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@Aaron020 said:
the fault lies with the survivors for not wanting to die on the hook so that the murderer takes longer to make the Morí.
And the devs for making it so you can only mori someone when everyone is dead, even when the game is decided with everyone else on hook and 2nd stage.
At the same time if there's a bot struggling for 70 seconds on hook, definitely just hook the survivor then. But at the same time, if that survivor hasn't been hooked yet, now they can sit and wait on hook until the bot has struggled all the way and I don't know. It's just lame.
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If you get 50 or so 4ks in a row, you'll begin to meet much, much stronger survivors because your MMR will be high enough to get you into the top mmr pool. Note that while the event queue uses MMR, it doesn't alter your MMR at all, so if you're getting kills there it doesn't count.
Also try playing after 11pm, that's when the super strong players get online with their powerful SWFs.
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@Jay_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834637#Comment_3834637
by that logic why do we not get anything for p10 and above? What you work for after you unlocked all perks is items, offerings and addons. not to mention having that shiny badge to show how addicted to the game you are :)
Yeah that's a fair point. You'd think that something like a banner at P50 and a cool custom badge at P100 that shows off the character would be a given. Could be that there's issues with licensed characters but still. Anyway, I'd be all for removing perk tiers, it would make the grind very straightforward, aka "just get P1 on everyone and you're good".
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They should make it so if every other survivor but the last one on the ground is on hook and in second stage, the killer can mori the last survivor anyway. Because then it's not like there's any hope of the game recovering because everyone on hook can't self unhook anyway unless they have anticamp or something.
That would solve killers waiting out other survivors that are on stage 2 and on hook to get their mori.
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Was it a basic attack? It has to be a basic attack.
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Gotta give people somethin to grind for you know? I mean, say we removed perk tiers and gave people fully leveled perks at Prestige 1. What should the reward be for P2 and P3? Should we just shuffle all the other rewards 2 levels earlier?
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
My rework to knockout:
No longer hides dying survivor's aura
No longer has basic attack requirement
Prevents survivor from crawling for 15 seconds and slows down recovery speed by 50% (was 25%).
Doubling down on its secondary effect and making knockout the signature perk for short situational slugging - survivor cant crawl under pallet while you kick the gen or check for potential savers, nor can they recover fast to prevent quick medkit/WGLF pick up.
This is cool, preventing survivors from crawling is unique and could also be strong near exit gates too as well as near pallets with players hovering like you mentioned. Fits the perk thematically too. Maybe it could even have a special animation with the survivor lying knocked out on the ground without moving or something.
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Yeah, Visionary needs its cooldown removed and some secondary effect added. Right now it's just outclassed by Deja Vu, even if they don't do exactly the same thing. The penalty is unnecessary, same as the extra progress lost when missing gen skillchecks with Technician.
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I don't think those three are very good examples. Being healed off hook with adrenaline was silly and not fair to the killer, punishing them for picking up and hooking and rewarding them for waiting over downed survivors as gens pop to smack them and deny adren. It was bad game design. It also went from 5 seconds to 3 seconds but I think that's fine, it's still a very stong and top tier perk.
Boil Over got its wiggle strength and aura blocking range buffed, but also had a crazy wiggle progress bonus to drops added. That turned out to be too strong so they toned the wiggle bonus down to be based on current progress instead and now the perk is still better than it was before the changes.
And Distortion well I'll admit there's a ton of aura reading on killer, but Distortion is totally usable. The only difference is if you never take chase you can't hide forever. In fact, Distortion right now is actually even better as a perk to deny the killer aura reading in chase since you'll be regaining tokens during the chase. I like the rework, it incentivizes Distortion users to take chase instead of just hiding, while still helping their stealth outside of chase.
Also, you're glossing over lots of really nice buffs that survivor perks have gotten. Look at the last update! Blood Rush, Lucky Star, Inner Focus, Quick Gambit, Poised, all perks that were extremely low usage rate and overall pretty terrible are now sort of decent. I personally think the devs are doing a pretty good job balancing the game. Although soloq is pretty miserable right now.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3833569#Comment_3833569
This is very poetic; like, it's well written. But do some of those things actually happen to you in those situations or is this an exaggeration?
Pure exaggeration lmao. Though I'm not really a fan of hatch since it incentivizes playing really selfish as survivor or sweating for the 4k as killer. If I've downed the second to last survivor I rarely bother slugging for the 4k unless I already know where the last survivor is and it's convenient to go get them.
I think some changes could be made to the final 1v1 though, so it would be less boring and RNG. I personally wouldn't mind as killer if I could challenge the last survivor to a little 1v1. Like, once 3 survivors are dead, sure hatch would still spawn. But the killer could also instead challenge the last survivor to a final chase, and if they accept, all pallets respawn, the survivor becomes healthy and not exhausted, and you get a cool little final chase on a 2 minute timer. If the survivor lasts 2 minutes they get an escape, if not they get killed, but either way the killer and survivor both get a nice BP bonus for participating.
If the survivor doesn't accept, the game just ends without killing the last survivor or having them escape, like a "tie" of sorts, but the killer gets a decent BP bonus since they technically "won" in the 1v1 since the survivor forfeited. I do feel like since there's no real win condition that tells you "you won", many killers don't feel like they've truly won until they kill all 4 survivors. Maybe a system like this could help with that. Something has to change at least, I think people are right about that.
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@DeBecker said:
Why are killers so inclined to get their 4k?
When I've killed the second to last survivor, and the hatch has spawned, my stomach sinks immediately. I begin sweating and my hands begin shaking. Then when the hatch spawns, the longer I search for it, I begin hyperventilating and my tears prick my eyes as I dread the intense distress I will feel as the last survivor stands on top of hatch and taunts me in front of everyone spectating. And it's worse the longer I search, that horrible uncertainty of not knowing if they've found it or not makes me want to vomit, I feel my stomach churning the longer I look for hatch. And if I see them on top of hatch, I just break down crying. I can't even muster to walk up and hit them to get them to leave, I just cry. Luckily, most people just jump in, but some players don't and it's so painful I want to tear my hair out and scream at the top of my lungs to make the pain go away. Sometimes I do.
But if I do manage to find and close hatch first, my torment is still not over… Because then I have to try and stop them from opening gates, which is almost even worse, especially if the gates are obscured. I feel myself panicking the longer EGC has gone on, second guessing my every checkup on each gate, wondering if the survivor has managed to outsmart me with every time I walk from one gate to the other, unsure if they've already opened the gate and are simply waiting for me to rub it in and tbag me. Once it reaches that point, if I notice a survivor standing there at that open gate, it takes every fiber of my being not to DC, but I have to stay strong. So I try to distract myself as the EGC slowly runs out, while my hands and sometimes my whole body shake and I try to calm myself down, telling myself it'll all be over in just a few minutes.
So I usually slug for the 4k instead.
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People would strive to get the badges, it would have the opposite effect. Also, if people that felt they played fair were given the badges by salty players reporting them, it might have the opposite effect and make them go "Oh, so the game thinks I'm toxic even though I'm playing nice? I'll show them toxic!"
The only thing that can be done to combat the toxicity is adding basekit mechanics to help players deal with things like getting bodyblocked in a corner by your teammates or the killer, or getting bled out. But there isn't, so there's that. Also removing endgame chat or making it opt-in or something would help because then there would be less of a reaction to be had, so there's less fun in being toxic.
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What a strange scapegoat to blame finisher mori for 4 man slugging at the start, that's nonsense and they have nothing to do with each other. Slugging for the 4k I agree with though. Wish BHVR would just clean up the 3k-4k/last survivor mechanic already, give killers an official way to "take" the 3k and end the game instead of needing to 50/50 for hatch and gates.
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No, Dead Hard is finally in a good place, it's still very strong but limited as it should be. I absolutely do not want to go back to Dead Hard having 30%+ usage rate, even higher in higher MMR. You know it's still a top 8 perk right?
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They would probably have to rewrite most of the netcode from the ground up, since right now it simply trusts the client almost entirely because the game was peer to peer from the start. The most powerful hacks, like teleporting around the map and instantly downing and killing all survivors, or doing all the gens, or editing the health states and hook states of any player in the game, are in the game because the game fundamentally trusts the client too much. Obviously I don't know the technical details but still, these kinds of hacks aren't possible in many multiplayer games.
Unfortunately I don't think it's worth it for BHVR to fix cheats and rewrite the netcode and client server interaction. The time cost wouldn't justify the gains, and the overwhelming majority of players do not run into cheaters. I think making DBD free on Epic was a huge mistake. Right now, if cheaters are banned, it costs nothing to grab one of thousands of shelved epic games accounts and start cheating again.
I think the cheating epidemic would be less severe if it was more costy for hackers to get DBD accounts. If for example the Maddening Darkness pack was incorporated into the base game and the game was 12$ at its lowest , even on sale, that would make cheating a much bigger investment. Right now the game can be bought on steam for around 4$ if you trick regional pricing which of course cheaters will do.
Making the game more expensive wouldn't be great for new players, but actual legitimate players only have to buy DBD once, so I think it would have been worth it. But with the amount of accounts hackers have as backup on Epic from the free week, it's all a moot point. I'm sure BHVR are doing all they can given the current situation, but with the current cheating landscape, it's just such an uphill battle.
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Yes, that would be very nice.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831270#Comment_3831270
yes, fair point. it's a weird connection to make as well
I don't think so, he mentioned using slugging as a punishment for BM and I think it's safe to assume he means bleeding out. That's unacceptable behavior and should not be tolerated in our community, regardless of how rude the other side plays.
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He feels good now men! He has the nice bonus guard duration if you send long patrol paths, which makes assassin super deadly with the extra duation. He's got extra 2m map of the realm basekit. Can swap freely between guards, so if someones running around with a guard to keep it hostage you can just send out a different guard, which cancels the current one in the process. Plus you can use Carnifex to break a pallet and then immediately send a different guard.
Survivors can touch windows to trick your guards to run and touch it now though which is unfortunate.
I think he feels better than before! But he's still mid tier at best. But he feels good to play!
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@Coffeecrashing said:
If a survivor has been slugged for 60 seconds, then the game should automatically teleport them to a 2v8 hook.
- The slug timer is now 60 seconds
- If the slug timer reaches 0, teleport the survivor to a 2v8 hook
- If a survivor is hooked or caged, reset the slug timer to 60 seconds
I mean that's just a buff to slugging. Now slugging killers could get hook states for free without altering their playstyle.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831292#Comment_3831292
This isn't true. If the last survivor is slugged near an open gate, you can't bleed them out. We've all been in these situations occasionally, and this update denies survivors the chance to escape in that scenario. It takes the fun out of those endgame scenarios :(
Also, the mori animations takes time, so it doesn't save much time compared with carrying to a hook.
My point was buckle up and flip flop when it comes to bleeding someone out under a pallet. As for getting morid near gate, yeah I see your point. There are some scenarios where you could otherwise wiggle off if the killer juggled survivors a bit where you'll instead get mori'd. Sucks, but I still like the system.
It's definitely a time save though, average mori is 15 seconds, but the sacrifice animation is 15 seconds too. But, you gotta get picked up, moved to a hook, hooked and potentially go through stage 1 and 2 animations too if you're the last survivor and aren't already death hook. If we added the option to skip sacrifice animations and moris that would make the finisher mori a really nice timesave.
I think the whole "last survivor" aspect should be looked into anyway. Too many killers can't handle the last survivor getting hatch or escaping, so they desperately slug for the 4k, and I do think this has gotten worse after the finisher mori. If there was a way that the killer could end the game on their own terms after a 3k without needing to hunt down the last survivor, kind of like an official "win condition", I think people might slug less. But I guess that's a different topic. And that might be even less interactive. I don't know. Game's in a weird spot right now.
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@Senaxu said:
Yes, I agree with that. But it could also lead to a side effect that killers slug the last survivor to death if they have no more control to lock/force him into the Mori animation.
Stupid, I know, but I'm telling you, there will be such cases more frequently than previously.
"Some of you may be bled out, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make."
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831281#Comment_3831281
If the gate is opened or 99ed and the survivor is close enough that wiggling free would let them escape, you're not giving them a free escape by picking up. They've earned a chance to escape by getting into a situation where they're close enough to have a chance. I've definitely dropped survivors close to the gate (to get their teammates) and ended up having to choose between picking up or risking them crawling out. That doesn't mean I'm entitled to deny that player the chance they've earned to escape if they wiggle out. I have to earn it.
In that case, the mori is giving a free kill to the killer who would otherwise have to work for it. Near the gates, the survivor doesn't generally crawl near a hook. And the game isn't over for each survivor until they're on their last hook. The interaction of each survivor with the killer is different than the killer's effort to stop the team. If the killer wants to deny a survivor's abilities like that, they should have to bring an offering. I actually find those last-second chases fun, even as killer :)
That's not true. If they're slugged underneath a pallet next to gate, you could just bleed them out for 4 minutes and you'd get a kill. As for crawling toward gate, you can't mori until the second to last person has been fully sacrificed on hook, by the time that happens you can usually crawl out or wiggle off anyway. I don't think the finisher mori makes much of a difference at all here. If you were high wiggle and the other survivor is being sacrificed, you'll wiggle out or crawl out. If you were low wiggle, you'd get hooked anyway. Finisher mori is totally fine imo and in fact it saves lots of time that would be spend being picked up and carried to hook.
Sure near gates survivors don't usually crawl toward a hook but if they're not near gates but have to crawl a bit of distance toward them, it's almost guaranteed that they will pass close enough to a hook for the killer to hook them before they wiggle off, even if they have more than 50% wiggle progress or so.
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@Yoshirama said:
The only think I hate about finisher mori is that it can denies survivor any adventage they have while slugged: Power struggle, killer drop them and they can wiggle out, etc. And all of these without hooks
Let's say you're downed at a pallet close to gate with power struggle and flip flop as the last survivor. Before, the killer would have to either pick you up and give you a free escape, or keep you slugged for 4 minutes till you bled out. That's no good. Now the killer can just mori you, I think that's better.
Sure it makes for less "interesting" gameplay but at the same time, the game is over. Also, not being able to hook a slugged survivor is rare now that hooks respawn, but even then, unless you're slugged right next to gates, the killer could just wait until you had crawled close enough to a hook while crawling toward gate to hook you unless you were at like 90% wiggle progress. I think the mori is fine really.
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I think it had to go. You could use it to completely prevent unhooks and that was no good. Current cooldown is fine imo.
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Yes to that. And sacrifice animation on hook or from EGC too while we're at it!
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Why? That would be bad.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831264#Comment_3831264
yes, you shouldnt excuse slugging at all because it doesnt need to be excused. it's like saying excusing flashlight saves or doubling gens. people shouldnt have to excuse legitimate strategies with risk and reward to them just because they're playing pvp game and their opponent gets upset they didnt win.
you might be talking about bleeding people to death though, but that has a different name than slugging and it's important not to clump these concepts together, as you just discredit your point by that
I do discredit my point by that, but when he mentions BM as a reason to slug in the OP, does he mean he begins slugging to punish them? What does he does when he has them all slugged? People often say they get slugged for 4 minutes just as often as they say they get bled out. I agree slugging is a viable strategy, but I do not like the implication here!
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You can't excuse slugging someone for BMing. That's a slippery slope and at that point, and what someone takes as BM varies, plus how poorly said BM is received varies too. And if someone BMs you and they manage to escape, then what? Do you slug the next group of survivors because the last group BMed you? Seems to be a common mindset to handle the ######### feelings of getting taunted, but that's just unreasonable. That kind of slugging is entirely and utterly in the killers control and is a pure ego move. At least the other examples make sense from a gameplay perspective.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831245#Comment_3831245
This is making light of actual issues though, and missing the point entirely. I can tell you barely play survivor, and why would you if you want to win the game occasionally.
Saying "balance is at it's best" is completely tone deaf to the huge issues the current game has. Balance has steadily been shifting in the killer's favor for two years now, and that's been the stated goal since the devs are pushing for 60% kill rate. An arbitrary number picked out of a hat, that a lot of killer players didn't really care where it came from because it had meant a ton of bugs and changes to allow killers to win more.
Balance is the issue here. Trying to claim it's "skull merchant mentality" is insane. That killer has a 68% kill rate, and that doesn't include any games with a disconnects or games with people dying on first hook. That means the killer wins their games TWICE as often as the survivors they face. That's completely insane for a PVP game. It's a huge indicator that game balance is in a terrible place alone.
But having survivors giving up more frequently is another indicator that game balance and game health are in a terrible place.
OP nailed it: camping, tunneling, and slugging are out of control. Survivors don't feel they have any viable options to compete anymore with the cascade of killer buffs given out and seemingly endless survivor nerfs. We're nerfing distortion for crying out loud, that's how bad it's getting.
You talk as if she hasn't been nerfed already, her current killrate is 55% according to the allmighty nightlight. Lowest pickrate in the game too I believe.
Other than that, yeah soloq is absolute misery right now. I've noticed that most my games in killer have been surprisingly easy as well. Of course when I actually meet strong and coordinated survivors I struggle a lot, but that's so rare nowadays. It feels like matchmaking lumps just about anyone of any skill level into my games and it's so strange.
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More killers, flashlight saves coming back, what's not to like? It'll be fun, hopefully killer queues can be less than 25 minutes now. Should be better now too since we'll have better survivor gameplay, more killers to choose from and there will be less killer overlap in matchmaking.
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This take isn't as profound as many think. Spirit and Dracula in bat form are wildly different and not as comparable as people think. Bat form is faster yes, but has noise that obscures survivor audio. It is also completely visible to survivors, so a ton of counterplay is given for free, you don't have to listen at all to counter batform. Yet if you for any reason aren't able to hear directional audio either due to not having a good headset, hearing or anything, Spirit will destroy you.
People say Dracula can "immediately attack out of transformation and has no cooldown so he's stronger" but that's a gross overestimation. He's slowed down for more than a full second before he can even attack or act, his movement is glidey and inaccurate in bat form, his own bat noises overshadows the survivors noises heavily, making it hard to pinpoint their location in a chase. Spirit on the other hand not only can attack immediately after exiting phase, she gets a significant speed boost which she can use to do very unpredictable lunges and turn semi-safe tiles into extremely dangerous 50/50s, while having even tighter and snappier controls than regular movement.
As for cooldown Spirit has a cooldown yes, but she doesn't have to use her entire power and wait for the entire cooldown either. Slap on the yellow movespeed addon or even MDR for speed, and you're way, way more dangerous than Dracula is in bat form since you can catch up faster and get hits without depleting your whole power gauge, so the cooldown isn't that impactful.
What I will give Dracula, is that he's way more approachable and easy to play compared to Spirit. It doesn't take that long to learn how to use bat form for mobility and then follow up with hellfire. It's pretty telling that on nightlight, not that it's the most accurate website, Dracula is both the highest pickrate killers as well as extremely high killrate, which indicates pretty heavily that he's too strong for being so simple.
Dracula is for sure overtuned, but I'm tired of people pretending bat form alone is better than Spirit, that's parroted nonsense. It's batform with its incredible mobility and catchup combined with hellfire that makes him so extremely dangerous when played right, and he's pretty straight forward to play too.
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Yeah, it's painful, but remember that these players are geared with the sole purpose to escape, and they have to be prepared to face their 10th Nurse or Blight in a row that's hardtunneling at 5 gens with quad slowdown and the best addons. So they bring the absolutely most powerful builds they can to survive, just like the killers at high mmr bring the absolutely strongest builds and tactics to get as many kills as possible.
That's high mmr for you. If you've managed to get yourself info high mmr without much sweating, it can be pretty painful, but doing that isn't as easy as people say. Chances are that your playstyle is getting you many kills, which is bumping your MMR up.
If you just chill a little bit with your builds or make the choice to play slightly less serious with tunneling, camping, and just focus on chases and having fun without necessarily aiming to 3-4k, you'll eventually reach an MMR where your games aren't quite as sweaty and you aren't forced to play extremely serious every match to win.
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Nah, keep the permanent torment and add back that PTB change of torment on your M2 attack too.
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Why are you negging sable, man? Leave her alone!
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I've always though that maybe alongside hatch, another object would always spawn in main building or basement or something that the killer can interact with to "offer" the 3 souls they sacrificed and kind of "end" the game on their own terms, letting the last survivor get an escape, but the killer get a BP bonus. Like a way to quickly end the game once you've killed 3 players without needing to go hunting for hatch or the last survivor.
Make the animation to offer the souls satisfying, give a nice sacrifice points bonus to the killer for doing it to really show that the killer wins. That might incentivize killers that slug to secure a 4k to be content with 3k cause they've officially "won".
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Would be very good for accessibility for sure. I want the skillcheck sound to have a visual cue as well, if you're playing without sound or can't hear it for any reason it's like you're playing with permanent Huntress Lullaby. Seems like an easy fix.
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I wouldn't want my screen to go dark when chainsaw sweet is about to run out, that just seems distracting. You can learn the timing not only by counting the grunts, but also by watching him sweep the chainsaw left or right, or even watching the duration on the power icon.
If they wanted him to be even more accessible, they could just remove the whole chainsaw timing altogether and just give him a set +2.5s extra duration to his sweep every time he uses a charge to the remaing duration, same as if you did a perfect charge use every time basically. But I for one quite like the little minigame of timing his charge usage in chase to get the most distance.
The separate icon for tantrum is a good idea though, makes sense.
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He's a future spaceman from outer space. Every single cosmetic he has must be future spaceman from outer space themed, don't you get that?
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Nah, it doesn't work when injured and has a cooldown, also requires fast vault. Keep it the way it is, it's cool and I'm happy survivors have another decent chase perk. I don't think it's strong enough to warrant a nerf.
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Nobody would play the event queue gamemode if you did this.
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OTR is necessary, otherwise the only real free anti tunnel perk survivors would have is Dead Hard, but that's not very usable for newer players. If you really wanna counter it, slap the survivors right off hook.
There is an argument to be made for reducing the duration to 60 seconds from 80, but if you haven't done a conspicuous action and removed the Endurance in 60 seconds then you're just wasting time. I know you keep aura reading blocking and grunt suppression but whatever.
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Now that hooks respawn, it's extremely uncommon for the killer to not be able to hook the last survivor, and that's a good thing. As for power struggle flip flop, let's say you've got it active and you're 10 meters from gate. The killer could just slug you for 4 minutes, would that be better? I think finisher mori is fine as it is, in fact, I wouldn't mind if it activated when everyone else in the game were on hook and 2nd stage and you had downed the last standing survivor, but that's a topic people have mentioned in other threads already.
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It's perfect. Perfect.
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Isn't Vecna and Wesker in a pretty okay spot for both sides? I don't get why these are important to change.
Ghostface is probably getting a small buff, or maybe they'll change something fundamentally with the reveal mechanic. Drac is getting a nerf but as far as I can tell it's well deserved with the bat form swapping and all.
What I'm real interested in is the Myers changes. I have zero idea what's gonna happen. Guess we'll know next week, maybe even friday if they do a dev update.
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They're for sure going to make the visual effect less obsctructive. Other than that I have no idea. The way it works with Endurance and on its own is pretty clear, not sure what room for improvement there even is without overcomplicating it.
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Isn't Chucky considered one of the strongest killers in the game now? This bug makes him able to handle godpallets by perfectly controlling his movement after using scamper on top of his already strong slice and dice in loops. This doesn't seem balanced to me.
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Don't worry, it's getting nerfed in 1 month.
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Predator is fine, it's an entire perk slot to get aura reading when chase breaks.
Predator is not fine on Nurse though.
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@MrDardon said:
I think the finisher Mori should work on the last man standing, similar to low profile.
If everyone is hooked, then the last Survivor on the floor can me moried.. that way the waiting out for the hooked person to die wouldn't be a thing.
Yeah, that's been suggested. Specifically if everyone else is hooked and second stage, the last standing survivor can be mori'd. So you don't rob people of self unhook perks or attempts. Really hope they do that, would actually make finisher moris a fast way to end a match instead of the opposite with people waiting out people on hook to get it.