MrMori
MrMori
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In the last year the only real nerfs killer has had to hooks and tunneling is Shoulder the Burden and +10 seconds on hook timers. Those two helped push us toward this meta a bit, but I also think the meta is just evolving on its own as well.
Basekit BT, new OTR, no unhook grabs, etc, has been in the game since summer 2021, it's been a long time now. I don't think those are the reason why the slug meta is emerging now. I think this is an arms race where very good survivors are stacking second chances and are hard to catch, while very good killers are slugging more and more often to build pressure and circumvent these second chances.
Very curiuos to see how BHVR plans to address this meta.
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@Lixadonna said:
They tried to fix it by giving Survivor extra distance on fast vault but that lasted a week before it got reverted because Killer complaints. 🤡
Well, did you ever play against those vaults? They were absurdly powerful. Vaults were fine before this change when both sides have low ping, so in any low ping match it just made window vaults utterly broken. Plus you could vault straight over trappers traps. Crazy.
I believe they did end up buffing fast vault distance by a little bit which is fair imo, right now it is some kind of middle ground between the old and new vaults distance. The funniest part about this whole thing is that male fast vaults had like twice the distance as female fast vaults due to a bug for weeks and weeks.
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I think an easy solution to Plot Twist giveups would be that if any survivor can self-pickup, the surrender option isn't available. I'm also willing to guess that AFK crows will be improved, and the item drop and pickup trick will be removed. Interestingly, recovering while on the ground, which you can even do while having full recovery will also prevent AFK crows.
Remember that the roadmap says "Anti-Slugging/Surrender Option" so it could be that they'll implement some measures to make 4 man slugging a weaker strategy. We'll have to wait and see.
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That's high MMR for you. I just wish they'd tone his addons down some more. With such a strong base power it's lame that he still has such a decent set of addons and addon combinations. If they nerfed him too much you'd begin to see Nurse every lobby but we could tone her down too, like player aura reading blindness when charging/using power, change her mangled and lunge range addons, etc.
Truth is there just aren't that many viable killers once you reach top MMR, but Blight is strong enough to keep up, and fun to play. Also I think since casuals are probably playing 2v8, the 1v4 matches are even more sweaty than usual.
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@Pulsar said:
Can't say I've ever been fond of powers that are, "I clicked a button, leave the loop or die"
Depends on the loop, you can crouch the single scanline pretty easily now and still avoid getting hit in many loops, both by SM and the scanline since you're immune to getting scanned when vaulting windows and pallets. And if SM is about to get a lock on, the survivor can just crouch to force an M1. And once you're injured, she has to fiddle around with her drones and spin them around and get lock on just for some haste and hinder which may not even be enough.
Her antiloop isn't oppressive in the slightest anymore, it's frankly awful if you know the counterplay. Out of the killers that can force hits at loops, she's probably among the easiest to loop against. I'm surprised people don't find it fun honestly, she's almost a pure M1 killer now if you just crouch the scanline.
The honest truth is people still remember her as the double scanline stealth scan noobstomper, or the awful 3 gen merchant. Few players have actually played a serious match against nerfed single scanline SM.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880558#Comment_3880558
Unless they did it intentionally.
It just doesn't make sense to me that it could be intentional, because the entire point of the incentives was to get people to play the side that has the least players in queue, aka the quickest queue times right? Well I'm consistently getting incentives on the side that has the longest queue times and the most players, where for example my killer queues are less than 10 seconds, survivor queue is more than 2 minutes, but the incentive is 25% on survivor. Usually happens during the evening when killer queues are the fastest, and I'd be always getting 100% before.
100% survivor during the day when the survivor queue is also something I haven't seen in a long time. And even though my survivor queues are almost instant in the midday, there are no incentives.
It's been like this since the last Lights Out like someone mentioned too. You really notice on your BP gains that you never have 100% incentive, even when you're playing the most needed role.
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Charms on survivor would be better if they were big enough that you could actually see them at all. I'd prefer one nice large charm that is placed in a pretty visible spot on the survivor, than 3 tiny, almost completely invisible ones.
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I'm gonna write my own little novel here on this, I think it's part of why I feel so tired of this game. The biggest issue I have is how inconsistent everything is, from matchmaking to how people behave in post game chat and if they BM ingame. One game you're going against average players that are super easy to destroy. They immediately leave match after dying, they maybe say gg or just say nothing in post game, they're chill but generally not very good at the game, so the matches are very easy and uninteresting, probably for both sides.
Then the next game you go against super sweaty douchebags. You can just tell they take it extremely seriously, loop everything absolutely perfect, wait at gates for as long as possible after winning purely to rub it in even when they see you leave the gate, abusing silent flashbang and bagging after every save, and just ######### lashing the hell out in post game chat despite winning or playing better than you.. When you're on a killer you rarely play, even though your MMR is supposed to be low on those killers. Sore winners are absolutely rampant in DBD and it makes learning new killers quite frustrating, and the crazy part is these players are often quite good, yet always bring the absolute strongest stuff and map offerings. It almost feels like these players get stomped by actual strong killers, and then unload their whole load of frustration on the next killer they manage to beat. It's crazy and insanely immature.
I guess it's a skill issue on my part to care about any of this at all, "just close chat", yeah I get it. But I actually do sort of want positive interactions post game, at least a small acknowledgement that "Hey, we all played a pretty good match there", a show of good sportsmanship. But matchmaking is so unpredictable and all over the place, you never know what to expect from neither gameplay nor if people will be super toxic or not.
I wouldn't mind if chat was just an opt in feature by default that can stay completely turned off, hell make it avaiable to console players too for all I care. But also add a little "gg" button next to your nameplate or something you can choose, and make the "Give Props" thumbs up actually gave some kind of feedback. That way, even console players could feel like there's some communication and community, instead of relying completely on post game chat for this or messaging people on different platforms.
Maybe I'm just bored of this game. But with this matchmaking, I don't feel like I can enjoy it as a serious competitive game, nor a silly, unserious party game.
@Aven_Fallen said:
Yes, MMR was a mistake. And I think the damage MMR has done is beyond repair, since the whole player mentality also changed. Since MMR was introduced there is much more sweating going on and even if they would change the matchmaking again, this would still continue.
The thing about MMR is just that it feels so inconsistent. Because it simply is, once you are above the Soft Cap you get grouped with everyone above this Soft Cap. I have written it in another post a few days ago, but when I played Billy, a Killer I play a lot and would say are at least decent with, I went against Survivors who did not really seem to know what they are doing. And when I played Twins, a Killer I have not played for months (I dont think I played them in 2024 at all), I had very good Survivors - simply because I am above the Soft Cap with my Killer MMR and this is also used for Twins. So with the Twins-Game I got players who were way above the Soft Cap and as Billy I got some who barely reached it. Yay.
And on top of that, all of the Matchmaking is thrown away when it comes to backfilling. It was quite long ago, but I once faced a Trapper with below 100 hours… While the Survivor Team had around 25k hours combined (my SWF-Mate and I and then another 2 man SWF). Poor guy got backfilled and obviously had no chance at all. Nobody was bullying him or anything, but he did not achieve anything. And backfilling still happens, but this was probably the most extreme example I have seen.
Personally, I think Rank-based Matchmaking with a hard Rank Reset would have been the best. Their reasoning for watering down the Rank Reset back then was that people who dont play as much would feel left out when they cannot reach Rank 1. This was a pretty bad reasoning considering that it is totally fine it people play more that they get more rewards. But nowadays you get set back even more in your Grade AND you get BPs as a Reward. So their reasoning back then is completely gone. But overall, I would say that having a hard Rank Reset and a slight tweak of the Emblem System would have been enough to create good Matchmaking.
Nowadays all you get for playing well is an increase of an invisible Number. And even Grades are basically non-existend, you have to make extra clicks to actually see your Grades in the Lobby. Most of the time I only see my Grade at the 13th of the months when it gets reset, I see a few BPs and think "neat" and thats about it. (Let alone that playing well for MMR means that you escape or kill someone… Which is just so bad. If I play a game and end up with 8 Hooks but 0 Kills, I played worse than the Killer who only got a Hook with NOED at the end and camped that person to get a 1K… Likewise, as Survivor I can run the Killer for 5 Gens and then die to NOED and am worse than the other Survivors who did not have any Killer Interaction at all, but were good at pressing M1…)
It baffles me that they haven't removed pregame lobbies yet. It would massively improve so many things in the game. Much harder to snipe people, no more killers bringing perks to counter items because you saw them in lobby, no more lobby shopping/dodging and backfilling from either side, which completely messes up matchmaking and wastes everyones time, no more identifying weak links before the match even starts. And probably the best of all is how insanely much time is would save, especially if we could skip the offering screen and just go straight to loading too.
You just queue up, and the moment 5 suitable players have been found you press "Accept" and go straight to loading the next match and boom you're in-game, 30 seconds after you found a match. Faster, better quality matches. No downside. Just gotta have your loadout ready by the time you start your queue.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878436#Comment_3878436
Ahhh, I see what you mean, and yea it's only an advantage then for killers who are bad in chase.
Nah, it's an advantage for any character that naturally gets bloodlust during chase, straight up buff really. Even good players get bloodlust when they're playing M1 against strong survivors in tiles with decent windows for example, although good players also tend to predrop strong pallets a lot so then you don't get bloodlust as often but whatever.
The real limitation with the perk is that any killer that actively uses their M2 in chase and thus can't really get bloodlust without screwing themselves over in chase can't use the perk. But I think we'll see some people and content creators using it in creative ways and it'll get some niche popularity. Like the person that mentioned it on Oni in this thread. Could work on other killers that sometimes will M1 in chase and can get Bloodlust, but also benefit from undetectable, like Myers, maybe Bubba.
The killers I play the most can't get bloodlust easily, but could benefit a lot from the stealth, so I'm a little disappointed that this perk is still tied to bloodlust. I'd have loved to try it out in some undetectable build but it's just not feasible for my characters.
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@SpitefulHateful said:
Because people play competitive multiplayer games to abuse and bully others. Survivors never feel that tbagging at the exit gate before escaping is enough - they also need to go to the Killer's Steam profile and smear their verbal feces all over it. When they're denied what they think is their God's given right, they become furious.
The realest take, also powerful name.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I touched on this in another thread, but I think the devs have the causation completely backwards here.
Players aren't playing like "rats" because it's effective or fun. They're doing it to salvage unwinnable situations. Wake Up or not, there is still ZERO reason for survivors to work on a generator or participate in normal gameplay during most 3v1 and 2v1 situations. It just prolongs a lost game. The gens are not going to get done. It's actively detrimental to your chances of survival to do anything but hide.
I have a hard time fathoming that the devs would be blind to that. You can nerf Wake Up, but that doesn't change how utterly pointless it is for me to save anyone or do 15% of a gen in a 3v1 with 3 gens remaining. This obsession with locking in results at the 5 minute mark and extending the game to 12 minutes has to stop.
It's a complex topic because in some matches, if people just stuck to gens in the 3v1 and one of the survivors manages to hold the killer in chase for a long time, you may be able to barely get the gens done and still get a 2 man escape. But that's assuming everyone plays perfectly. If it's a 2v1 at 4 gens, then it's totally impossible to run the killer for like 6 minutes while the other survivor does the 4 remaining gens.
The 2v1/3v1 scenario is just badly designed in general. If they wanted to encourage players to not hide for hatch, at least give lots of objective points for doing a gen when there's few people left, remove the huge BP bonuses you get for getting hatch, etc. They've done nothing to reward players that despite the odds at least try to get the objective done even when the game is probably unwinnable.
Why take a huge risk with little reward, when a much smaller risk with much larger rewards exists? I've always thought it was dumb almost all your survival bloodpoints come from escaping itself. Why get 7000 for escape, instead of 1000 per gen done in the trial, and 2000 for escape? Why does hatch even give 2500 bonus objective points on top of that? It's no wonder people choose to rat, the game rewards it heavily.
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Yeah I'd say he does need alll those things. He's not overpowered. Strong, very viable if you're very good at him, but has counterplay and is not a top 5 killer in most people's opinions. Even his high level techs have counterplay, but you need to know about them or you can't predict them, like hugtech, etc.
As for if his kit is bloated, If you were to remove the infection mechanic completely, for example, he'd lose a serious time waste he forces survivors into. His infection needs to give hindered and instadown or people would power through the infection.
In terms of displacement, it could be changed so once he grabs you, he slams you into the ground and gets the hit every time, then loses both his charges, sure. But that would simplify him and remove a fun aspect of him, letting him zone you by throwing you into a bad spot. And it would remove the skill floor of needing to slam people into objects. But it would also remove a weakness, the fact that he has to slam you into an object somehow to damage you.
His power feels the right mix of simple and complex but without feeling bloated, it's in a good spot imo.
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Regular wake up call for BHVR to make it so when you've got a crow you lose collision with everyone until you don't have it anymore. Such an easy fix.
Also some option to give up once everyone is either slugged or hooked and there are zero self unhook or self pickup perks. Maybe you could vote to give up as a team, and then DC without penalty while keeping your points if you've given up.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
Its not a new effect, they just made it only work once (not sure if it's once per chase or game) and for a limited time. It's a MAJOR nerf.
The previous version of Beast of Prey gave you undetectable while you had Bloodlust, which you lost immediately upon losing Bloodlust, aka getting a hit, using your power, breaking a pallet, or losing chase. It also gave 50% more Hunter points at all times.
The new version of Beast of Prey gives you 40 seconds of Undetectable when you reach Bloodlust 1, and the perk goes on a 40 second cooldown at the same time as you have your Undetectable, and is ready to be activated again the moment your Undetectable has run out. It can be used as many times as you'd like, not just once. I would also guess that even if you run out of Undetectable while in a chase, you'll immediately get it back if you're still Bloodlusted anyway, since the perk is now off cooldown again and you have Bloodlust. It is in no way a nerf other than the BP, from a gameplay perspective it's a pure buff.
The problem is that the perk is still tied to reaching Bloodlust, which a lot of killers don't naturally do in chase, plus you have to commit quite a lot of time just to get Undetectable, which may not even help you. Still this new version seems like a pretty fun perk if your killer tends to get Bloodlust naturally in chase, since you now can break off chase and go flank with the Undetectable.
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@BurnedTerrormisu said:
I don't think it's broken, but rather it was changed by a conscious decision by BHVR. The amount of the bonus seems to have been drastically reduced for whatever reason.
I second that. Before you'd get 100% bonus almost every evening on killer, and 100% survivor bonus in the midday. They must not have been a fan of that and changed the weighting for when you get the bonuses because now it's rare to ever get more than 50%, and having no bonus or 25% bonus is more common. Even during times when queues are almost instant for one side.
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We already have Sac Wards which are brown now, I think they work fine. If we were to add an "anything but this map" offering, we'd get another 25 offerings in bloodweb which is already bloated to begin with when Sac Ward already somewhat serves the same function.
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I just don't get why they claim to want to make it an "altruistic perk" but then keep it at 25% for 2v1 and barely make it faster for 3v1. Opening gates when there's only 2 people left is one of the most altruistic things you can do, putting yourself at risk of being spotted by the killer and opening an escape for both survivors, giving the other survivor time to open the other gate.
Even if you just open the gate and get out in a 2v1, now the other survivor has a much better chance of living, since they can now either escape through hatch, the open gate, or even begin to open the other gate while the killer has to patrol the first two.
And Sole Survivor + Wake Up has never been a complaint by anyone really. If 50% bonus on Wake Up is too much when paired with Sole Survivor, why not make wake up 25% when you're the last survivor, but 50% otherwise? What a strange nerf.
If they actually wanted people to use Wake Up for reasons other than ratting, they could also improve the info it gives to other survivors. Why can't it just show the exit gates to everyone in the trial at all times once gates are powered, as well as your aura to everyone when you're opening a gate? That would make it kind of like Kindred but for gates. So much they could do before they weirdly nerf/sidegrade an already niche perk.
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It's only a nerf when you're the last survior compared to the Live version but still, absurd that they'd nerf it from PTB version.
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Yes please, and if they can't add a button like that, at least make spending BP by clicking manually the same speed as using auto bloodweb. And skip all the animations between bloodwebs and animations in general, it's s slow for no reason.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876967#Comment_3876967
Oh, don't you worry! We're already looking through early feedback and will be comparing this against feedback we receive once the update's in players' hands :)
Also, to add to what's in the Dev Update, part of the intention behind giving this increased period of Undetectable is to give Killers the option to disengage from an extended chase and surprise another Survivor if they see an opportunity.
This is a good idea, but since it is tied to bloodlust, many killers will struggle to get value from it when playing normally.
Consider making it like this:
- After being in chase for 15 seconds consecutively, Beast of Prey activates
- You gain Undetectable until the chase ends.
- The Undetectable effect lingers for 20-30 seconds after chase has ended, and the perk goes on cooldown during this period
Now it would be much more consistent, and also work on more killers. It would also work better on Huntress which is good since it is her perk.
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That part about escape being incredibly heavily rewarded is a really good point, and part of why the survivor BP gain can feel awful for newer players too, as well as ratting being as big of an issue. Why do you get 7000 points for an escape, while you get 0 if you die? It would be way, way healthier if you got 1000, or even 1200 survival points per generator completed globally in the trial, and 2000 for escaping.
Hatch is even worse at this, also giving away 2500 objective points for no reason. That should honestly just be removed. Hatch is a consolation prize and not a main objective and shouldn't give any extra reward other than the escape bonus.
When there's 2 players and 2 gens left, do you:
- Do 35% of a gen as the last person is chased, get like 500 objective points, get found after the last person gets hooked or runs by you, die
- Hide and wait for hatch, possibly getting 9500 points (7000 survival and 2500 objectve)
It's no wonder people choose to rat. With my changes, just finishing a gen would clearly be the best choice for everyone since you'd be getting 1000 points to survival.
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Tunneling is a very complicated issue, because there are many kinds of tunneling. A Nurse that gets a down within 20 seconds of the match on the player with the least hours (they checked), semi-proxies the hook but makes sure to pressure survivors off gens, waits for an unhook and immediately blinks back and to instantly straight for the unhooked player, , all while running quad slowdown, that's one form of tunneling.
But what about a different scenario? There are 2 gens left, and the killer has 3 hooks, one person is death hook, and they were also the most recently hooked survivor. The killer finds this person who is on death hook healing someone injured. Instead of committing to the injured person, they choose to try and down and sacrifice the death hook survivor, because if they don't they'll probably lose. That's also tunneling.
But these two scenarios are very, very different. If you add strict and oppressive punishments to tunneling, this may help create a more balanced match in the first case, but it could very well take away any chance of winning from the killer in the second case.
Like someone mentioned, tunneling is a part of the core game. Penalizing or punishing tunneling too harshly could feel unfair to killers that tunnel opportunistically when the time is right, or the survivors make a big mistake that makes tunneling them out easy. Also, depending on the punishments for tunneling, survivors could weaponize the anti-tunnel measures. The best case is that tunneling is no more and everyone adapts and games are more fun for everyone. The worst case is that Blights and Nurses continue to hardtunnel at 5 gens and power through the anti tunnel measures, while weaker killers are completely destroyed by it. Or maybe people just begin slugging everyone to death instead since hooking has too many downsides.
I'd rather they nerf the most powerful perks, killers, items and addons a bit on each side if they want to make games more balanced than to attempt any huge change like that. Though I'll admit that relying on survivors bringing licensed perks like Decisive Strike, or perks you need to buy a character to get like Off the Record to counter tunneling is pretty lame for new players. At least add some solid anti tunnel as a general perk or something.
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Very good, but needs some tweaks.
- Better controls. Just remove pallet "mode" completely and make it so tapping CTRL sets or detonates a dream pallet, holding CTRL teleports, and M2+M1 uses dream snares. Simple and straightforward.
- Make dream pallets appear completely real to dreaming survivors, keep them bloody for awake survivors
- Add some feedback when you hit an awake survivor with a dream pallet or snare to indicate that your attacks actually do something, like a small animation where the survivor looks down and "nods off" for a split second
- Make him a little weaker at slugging, for example by making it so healing a downed survivor won't trigger killer instinct at all, lingering for 1s after they are picked up
Way, way more fun and better than pre rework though, exciting stuff. Though I fear he may be one of the best sluggers in the whole game which could be a problem. Imagine something like Sloppy+Knockout+2 slowdown perks, maybe Jolt or something, and you just keep teleporting around and slugging. Could be nasty, especially paired with the right addons.
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@Slan said:
The problem is the mechanic itself. I believe that it should be changed so that you could mori the last survivor on the ground if every other survivor is hooked and on stage 2 so that they all get a chance to do a comeback. Until then, I am afraid we are all in our right to do whatever we deem if we wish to see the mori.
Someone dropping the last survivor next to hatch and then mori-ing them will do that regardless of how you change the mechanic. Making the mori available earlier like you mentioned wouldn't cause them to do it any earlier either, that's why they're waiting for hatch in the first place instead of unhooking, to close it in the survivors face.
But I do agree that you should be able to mori the final survivor if everyone else are on hook and stage 2, because at that point there's zero chance for a comeback if the last standing survivor also gets downed. Then everyone on hook could immediately be sacrificed during the mori. That would speed up the final moments of the game significantly when you've ended the game by slugging multiple survivors.
As for how to fix slugging for the 4k I have some ideas, mostly by adding incentives for killers to take the 3k as a win. Like once they've got a 3k, the killer can leave the trial get some bonus for it. But players like this SM would just ignore that mechanic and slug for the 4k anyway.
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I don't think they should remove it, I think they should make it a setting that's opt-in or opt-out, but also available on all platforms. And once you change the setting, you need to go to main menu for it to go into effect, it couldn't be changed mid game or at the post game screen. You want to see postgame chat on console and type with your controller back, sure go ahead. Also add an icon that shows whether or not this person has chat enabled to the post game screen. I'd personally opt out, it's a waste of energy.
I also wouldn't mind then if they added a separate ban from a game ban, which is a chat ban. Right now the only repercussion to being a huge ######### in chat is if you break some very specific rules regarding slurs or doxxing and get yourself game banned. But if all someone uses post game chat for is to be rude, mean, hurl insults, be passive aggressive and unpleasant, just chat ban them. They could still play the game all they wanted, but they just couldn't chat. Of course it would need to be manually reviewed if the system couldn't pick up some really clear evidence that the person was being awful.
I'd also add an option to remove the profanity filter completely, it's stupid and gets in the way and makes no sense in an 18+ game.
But I don't think they'll be changing post game chat in any way, ever. Only if there was massive community uproar, or controversies came from it.
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It's not reportable since it's during EGC, but it is honestly embarrassing that BHVR haven't done something about stuff like this already. Why blocking people like this purely to grief is still possible is absurd. All they need to do is make it so survivors with crows lose collision, that's it. It would have zero impact on regular gameplay, and even if it did once in a thousand games, it would be well worth it for the many times it would solve issues like this.
It's the easily fixable, incredibly frustrating pain points like this that make people not take BHVR seriously when they ask for Labor of Love.
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I personally chose to not play the event mode because there were clearly lots of casual players there, which made for pretty effortless and frankly unfair matches. Now I'm getting obliterated in regular queue but at least I'm playing against players I can learn something from.
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My life depends on getting the 4k. I need the 4k. Anything except a 4k is a crushing, devastating loss to me, and an unrecoverable blow to my ego. Stakes are high, and stress is through the roof.
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I'd like the invocations to stack, the effects by themselves aren't worth it and it could make for some interesting builds. If it becomes a balance issue, make each additional invocation you bring make the ritual take like 20 seconds longer or something. Another thing they could do for balance is make each invocation have its own unique downside, then using multiple can make you quite the weak link with many different debuffs.
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It looks pretty normal to me. Also comparing the peak from july which is anniversary to now isn't really fair. Look at averages, they're about the exact same as they were last december. The playercount always go up during summer, then down nearing the end of the year, then pick back up again as anniversary approaches.
I especially wouldn't worry about playercount when FNAF is coming next year too.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858520#Comment_3858520
Who says 3K is a win?
The survivor sitting on hatch teabagging and waiting to leave in front of me?
Nah.
This reason is why I constantly suggest a way for the killer to "end" the match after killing 3 survivors. Like in basement a glyph spawns that they can go through to leave the match and get some bonus BP, basically saying "I killed 3 of you, I win, I'm out", then the last survivor can do whatever they want in the empty trial.
This glyph could also be made available during EGC too, so if survivors wait at gates, you don't have to go push them out or wait for EGC to run out, you can just head to basement, interact with the glyph and peace out.
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@EternalRique said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857678#Comment_3857678
This is so strange cause same; like my goodness folk that nasty in this community?? (I know it's not all thankfully but too many).
I'll say "GG WP <3" and I've had folk legit message me separately in steam about how kind/appreciative they were.
It gets worse the higher MMR you go. I find the more serious, or even skilled the players, the saltier and sorer winners they are. It's so telling that often, the best player in the match will be the one bringing a map offering and be the most rude in chat.
The overwhelming majority are just quiet or simply say gg, but I notice this shift very clearly when my MMR bounces between average lobbies and high mmr lobbies.
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Doesn't sound like a gamemode that would be very popular, but it reminds me of some other games where you can join a special "waiting for a match" gamemode while in queue to find a game. Like deathmatch in Overwatch. Would probably be too technical to implement for DBD though and the queue times are too short anyway.
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Maybe it's a license thing where licensed maps need to have their own map offerings.
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The whole point of incentives is to give people extra BP for playing the side that has few players at the moment. If you're getting long killer queues, then there's many killers queueing and not enough survivors. Adding incentives to the side with the longest queues would just make the queues even longer, that makes no sense.
What frustrates me is when I have 10 second killer queues but still no killer incentive.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857291#Comment_3857291
The worst I could do as killer that you described without the hatch, I can do that with the hatch... just do it in 2 v 1 situations. So instead of getting 3k to be in that position it's 2k currently. What I suggest isn't only removal of the hatch but swapping it for a button similar to a glyph you mentioned that the killer and survivor can press instead of the hatch which activates egc. Instead of giving survivors a free escape and a reason to hide for the free escape and a reason for the killer to slug to prevent a free escape, it would be a simple button or glyph on the map that would start the countdown. If it's down to last survivor and there are multiple gens left, they have lost and should die one way or another not given a free escape.
If there are multiple gens left, that button is pretty much a guaranteed loss for the survivor because they can't finish the gens in time or leave even if given the choice. At that point, the button may as well just instantly kill the remaining survivor. Or better yet, if there's still gens left on the map when 3 survivors are dead, the last survivor immediately dies as well. If we're placing the last survivor into a situation they can't win from literally no matter what they do, may as well make it quick, this game already wastes enough time as it is. But at the same time, wouldn't it be a little boring that the last survivor just immediately dies too?
I just don't see the harm in the killer simply leaving the match with a BP bonus from the basement glyph. At that point, does it even matter if the survivor lives or dies? The survivor team lost. If it's very important, maybe the survivor wouldn't get any extra BP for escaping if the killer chooses to do this, and it wouldn't show up as an escape on the scoreboard because the killer "gifted" it to them.
The only thing I don't like about hatch is the randomness of it, and how gate spawns can make it either super easy or super hard to prevent the last survivor from escaping after the third is dead. I'd much rather have the option to either cash in the 3k through a glyph, or even challenge the survivor to a chase directly for the 4k, whoever wins gets a nice BP bonus. Is it that important that the 4th survivor dies to feel like you've won the match? Anything after the 3k is just formalities at that point, the game is over, why make it feel hopeless and pointless for the last survivor by locking them into a 2 minute EGC they can't even escape from no matter what?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857284#Comment_3857284
Most SM's were already going to show up to the gen as part of their patrol. They don't get slowed down, they'll just pass near the gen and drop a drone on it while they chase people off.
That minigame is also not as easy on Console.
No, I didn't touch SM after I learned what she was. I did have the unfortunate pleasure to play against her though. If most players find something problematic why shouldn't we fix it? If SM is killing normal players at a 70% KR, but high level players at a 50% KR, that SHOULD be a sign that there's something hugely wrong.
What you actually found with SM was that it was higher level players that just went next. She was completely beatable, but she was extremely tedious to go against and a lot of those players don't like that part of the game, which is fair.
Fair points, but I still think her issues weren't with 3 genning and that they should have compromised between the current version and the previous one instead of completely gutting her. They should have looked into why average players couldn't deal with her and fixed those things one by one, the real problem was and still is the unintuitiveness of her power and how little it teaches you as you play against her.
They were on the right track with making her more easy to understand when they made the scanlines white when you can't be scanned. But there was still no way for beginners to know how stealth drones worked. Her radar isn't explained or hinted at either, so I still find people crouching in a corner when they're claw trapped, because the game never once indicates to the survivors that I can see them on the radar, or that I even have a radar. Her getting random haste across the map was lame, so I'll admit I like the new way she gets haste now more. But why not have a special walk animation when she's hasted so survivors can know that she even has haste in the first place instead of just getting downed when they otherwise would have made a pallet or window?
Tying this into the knotted rope nerf, I think sometimes BHVR read into stats the wrong way. They found that players using knotted rope with certain combos have a high killrate, but who exactly would run that kind of combo in the first place? Players that are already experienced enough to understand that said combo is powerful, or follow the meta outside of the game and heard it from some high skill content creator, which probably means they're a better player than the average because they're less casual. Then they drive up the killrate of the addon, while average players just put on some random addons. If they were going to nerf it, at least they could have nerfed it to like 5-8% instead of completely neutering it, or better yet buffed her weak addons.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856561#Comment_3856561
I'm not saying hatch is the sole reason for slugging. Much like when the Mori update was released, loads were saying get rid of it because now killers are slugging more than ever. Hatch is the same, it gives reason to slug. I'm just saying reduce the reasons why a killer would slug and you would find slugging as a whole would reduce...not stop but urviviors would see less of it. Like me, I wouldn't slug anywhere near as much as I do if mori and hatch didn't give me a reason to. Some will slug regardless but people like me wouldn't slug as much.
We need to think extremes before doing something as drastic as removing the hatch. Think worst case. If you meet a bunch of new players, and 3k at 5 gens, what is the worst you could do to the remaining survivor? You could follow them as they finish all 5 gens, then kill them the moment they've opened the exit gate. You could do literally anything you wanted with them with zero natural way for the game to end other than them to finish gens or you to kill them.
You could wait for them to do gens, grab them and drop them, over and over to make sure they never bled out.
The worst you can do now is stand on top of hatch, which personally I don't get why it doesn't auto close to prevent stalling like that. Without hatch, I assure you that survivors would give up way, way more frequently. And at the same time, the 2v1 situation may actually get worse. Because there's one more reason to hide and prevent a 4k: To spite the killer and waste their time. In fact, the 1v1 could get worse too. How many survivors just run to a corner and hide once 3 players are dead, and wait out the entire EGC? Who knows how long these players would be willing to hide in a corner with no EGC to kill them.
Removing hatch would be bad for both sides. I have much more faith in incentivizing a 3k. How about this: After 3 survivors are dead, the killer can go to basement, interact with a glyph, and simply leave the match, also getting a nice BP bonus along with it, officially "winning" the game. Then the last survivor would be left alone in the trial and can leave or die as they please. If the gens weren't done, this would count as a 4k in terms of stats.
That way, killers have zero reason to slug for the 4k because at 3k, they've already won and can also leave the match without feeling like the fourth person "got away". What do you think about that?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856167#Comment_3856167
The fact that you have to disable the Drones to work on gens. It's not like you can just crouch away when SM shows up. That Drone needs to be gone or you're gonna get scanned when she comes back.
The fact that Drones made any and all gen regression stronger due to their mandatory time sink to do gens.
The fact that Drones could just be instantly replaced when patrolling with zero cooldown.
The fact that it's all a lot of players would do, simply because they could. Even in scenario's where they could win by killing Survivors, they'd choose to just keep stalling.
Who'd be better?
Hag? Not likely.
Plague? Maybe? Puke doesn't really do anything once your injured, unlike SM's Haste + Hindered. It also doesn't create AoE denials.
Singu? Again, maybe? His BioPods get disabled easy though, but being Slipstreamed is more impactful than being Infected against Plague.
Claiming that she can replace drones with zero cooldown and calling it a time investment for survivors makes zero sense. SM has to show up, remove the drone, then stand under it to replace it. Also, she gets a 10 second cooldown whenever she places a drone, in case you didn't know. Disabling a drone takes 4 seconds and is in no way a time sink for survivors compared to walking over and replacing the drone for Skull Merchant.
Claiming that the 4 seconds it takes to run up to and disable a drone makes gen regression stronger is a huge overstatement. If anything, the real problem with her 3-genning after the initial rework was that there is no way to remove lock on stacks, so eventually she'll get a down simply because the survivors gain lock on stacks.
Did you ever actually play Skull Merchant when she had 2 scanlines? Trying to 3 gen as her was not effective against good players especially ones on comms. Average players maybe, but any killer can hold a 3 gen against average survivors because the average survivor doesn't know how to play against it.
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@Pulsar said:
The difference is that one deserved it and one did not.
One had MASSIVE community outcry, the likes of which we have never seen, and the other just released.
Either way, BHVR needs to move faster when changing things.
Deserved depends on who you ask. I think the biggest issue with double scanline Skull Merchant was that she destroyed newer players and even average players, but was actually kind of mediocre at higher levels. Because of how bloated and frankly confusing her power was, and to an extent still is, most players would die without even understanding what happened. Meanwhile, players that were familiar with her would DC or give up without even trying and refuse to even learn the counterplay. It's pretty telling that people would still complain about how she could expose them, a full year after the expose was removed.
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In spite of people saying it's inconsistent, it's still an very good slowdown perk. I don't find the hook RNG to be as bad as people say it is. There's a reason it's still a staple in plenty of high tier killer builds, getting slowdown simply for hooking as long as you can reach a scourge hook is really good. Keep it a scourge hook perk.
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Yea her BP gains are terrible. Although most killer powers don't give any extra brutality points in the first place, only Singularity, Oni, Ghostface and Houndmaster have additional score events for that. It's a little strange that Oni and Ghostface get extra brutality points for their instadown power, but Bubba, Billy and Myers don't.
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I tried him a bit and the dash feels pretty bad now.
I don't get why they did it unless they have stats that show his killrate being really high. I havent heard many complaints about him after they changed his CD from 10s to 12s again in 8.4.0, so why nerf him? With 10m/s slice and dice, he gained 6 meters per second on a survivor during dash, now he only gains 4m/s. That's 33% less distance gained thanks to the 20% slower dash.
Sure it lasts longer, but if a survivor can turn a corner or reach a pallet then they're safe, so who cares if it lasts longer, it's not like it's used for mobility unless you have specific addons.
They could have just made his cooldown 14 seconds and called it a day, I don't think there's anything wrong with his dash being strong. Or at the very least make it 9m/s with a 1.5s duration. This nerf is too much.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/434719/im-tired-of-slugging-for-no-reason
Why i being slugged less fun for you? A hook timer is 70 seconds, meaning you could sit there for a full 3.5 minutes, with slugging its 4 minutes AND you can move around.
I never understood the survivor argument that being slugged is boring. When i play survivor and get slugged its better than getting proxy camped on the hook.
Self unhooking and then letting go so you die on hook takes like 30 seconds total if you count the death animation. Surely you can see why people prefer that to being slugged on the ground for 4 minutes for no reason at all when the game is already decided and everyone is one the ground with no way of recovering?
And I see you commenting earlier there that "Ah, you want to give up on hook eh? That's why you want to get hooked?" yeah, when 1 survivor is sacrificed, there's no unbreakables, 1 person is hooked and 2 people are slugged, I'd rather get put on hook and self unhook 3 times than to be bled out for 4 minutes. That much should be obvious.
Bleeding people out because they run into your face 2 seconds into the match because they dislike the killer you're playing is something completely different, and giveups on hook aren't related to being bled out. It also has nothing to do with slugging as a gameplay mechanic to gain pressure.
This post is talking about slugging purely to waste time when hooking would be a faster way for both the killer and the survivor on the ground to get into the next match, but the killer chooses to bleed the survivor out to rub it in, punish the survivor for something they feel they did wrong or whatever god awful reason they have.
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I like the change, but I agree with you. Since I only bring BP offerings, it doesn't help me much. I'll keep bringing BP offerings only and complain vigorously to myself the entire match when someone brings a map offering.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3854715#Comment_3854715
Most killers take map offerings so personally. What they don't understand is that the player using the offering has no idea who they are playing against nor what build they are running (complete opposite of the killer player who is able to see player profiles, items, and previously prestige). A lot of killers got their way with this poor band-aid fix, and are now gloating to anyone they see having any sort of criticism about it.
Now this is a comment I didn't see before commenting. I disagree with your idea about map offerings, but this is a very fair point.
I wouldn't be opposed to completely removing pregame lobby altogether and just send players straight into a match once 5 players have been matched together. That would not only speed up how fast it is to get into a match, but also be way better for matchmaking, since people dodging lobbies that were fairly matched, and people getting filled in as backfill into lobbies they don't belong in wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Or if they don't want to remove the lobby from the game, they could make it so killers can't see the item survivors are using, can't see the survivors name, and survivors can't be selected/interacted with at all. Why not right? It is pretty unfair that killers can check hours and see who's console/egc and stuff before the match while survivors have zero info on the killer.
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No
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@Bence said:
I usually slug in two cases:
1) When another injured survivor is near the down so I can get more downs.
2) When I wan't to prevent the hatch from spawning.
In the second case I only do it if the person is the obsession, as I usually play with Friends till the end, so if he's not the obsession, I get aura reading on the obsession for 10s, which means I can immediately start a chase with the last survivor for the hatch. If he is the obsession, I usualy just leave him on the ground as bait and hoping for a trade.So long story short, I think if they added aura reding when the second to last survivor dies to the basekit, it would greatly decrease the problem.
I just thought of a pretty cool compromise. What if doing the finisher mori on the third survivor gave you killer instinct on the last survivor for 5 seconds or so? Then you would be incentivized to mori the third survivor to find and chase the fourth, kind of like you mention, instead needing slugging or using Friends till the End.
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His terror radius is larger than all other killers to signal his superiority.
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I don't mind him having a 14 second cooldown instead of 12 seconds. But the dash speed nerf absolutely guts him. Think of any time you've ever been hit right before managing to round a corner to dodge his power. It's pretty common, right? Every single one of those hits would be a miss now, and that's just sad. Leave his dash speed alone.