Mozic
Mozic
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@MrMori said:
If the survivors argument against this is "They're doing literally nothing to progress the game for a full minute", why is slugging them and coming back later any worse? Like a player affected by DS can't positively impact the game at all. They absolutely can. They can get healed, bodyblock, or get healthy and far from the killer if they're on death hook, take a chase with the killer and purposely get downed even after the killer hooks someone else.
That's what DS is for, not jumping into a damn locker because you're invulnerable in it for a minute.
I'd be fine with a 5 second free BT if DS deactivated upon lockers and when touching gates. Why doesn't touching a gate disable it anyway? That's a pretty clear example of progressing the game.
why is slugging them and coming back later any worse?If the killer chooses to leave the survivor in the locker, they're in a better position to exit the locker and heal up / reposition to re-enter the game as a valid target. Being slugged by comparison puts significant additional pressure on the survivors, which is worse.
why doesn't touching a gate disable it anyway?I'm not sure, actually. I imagine it has something to do with avoiding the risk of a survivor being put into a no-win scenario, or just being comfortable with the survivor being able to utilize DS as a late game survival tool (with the cancellation being directed more towards early/midgame usages when gens are still in play) - but I can't say for sure. I think it's fine as-is, though.
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Players already self-sort between playing in a serious vs.non-serious way by playing in a serious vs. non-serious way. MMR organizes them appropriately. Because monthly resets don't affect how the matchmaker makes matches, these camps should generally remain fixed.
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@Funky_lPunk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2979082#Comment_2979082
BPs are a currency, they already confirmed it will not be any sort of currency including bps, acs and iri shards
Well if it's not a currency and it's not a cosmetic, then I'm expecting a nice pat on the head and a non-committal thumbs up. 😁
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@Mat_Sella said:
Something tells me you've never played killer during Events in which survivors could sabotage Event Hooks, it is a miserable experience and leads to what every survivor says they hate: Camping and slugging.
You want killers to hook you, it just makes for a better game experience. Making killers not want to hook leads back to camping and slugging, which survivors say they hate but will do everything to ensure it happens to them.
I mean, hook sabotage is in the game. It's one thing to put the killer in a situation where they have no hooks and another to beat the killer to a hook and rob them of the pressure they're building - especially to counter one that's likely going out of their way to reach a scourge hook that may be further away than just prioritizing the nearest hook like killers usually do.
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I think it'd be a fine addition - just have the survivor see scourge hooks in a yellow aura and regular hooks with a red aura (meaning that the survivor would only see & know there are scourge hooks in the match once the killer is carrying a survivor)
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@Milo said:
After hooking a survivor, you can discern the progress of all generators by the intensity of their auras for 8 seconds. The generator with the most progress gives you a loud noise notification.That's, atleast imo, way too much info. Just the most progress one would suffice.
Making this change would cement "Relentless Killer" as a sufficient 'win' in the killer's book, incentivize playing to the emblem system, and providing an avenue for addon retention to produce parity with survivor's means to retain addons (via an escape through the gate or hatch with their item in hand).This isn't a thing since sometime ago. Well technically. If a survivor has Ace in the Hole then they do keep the add-ons, otherwise they just keep the item.
When you are placed on a hook, the entity immediately moves you to another, non-basement hook at least 40m away. If the killer stands within 16m of your for more than a few seconds, the entity moves you again to another hook at least 40m away and pauses your sacrifice timer for 12 seconds.Even with ur 1st suggestion, I still think that the killer would lose a bunch of pressure of that (most of the time, cages spawn near other survivors thus removing PH's pressure).
You can no longer be grabbed while healthy when unhooking.Eh... I'm like half on it, so won't comment further.
Thanks for the thoughts!
To the first:
The idea behind the auras AND loud noise notification is to give the killer a quick visual shortcut on which gen is the most progressed - it would already be discernable from observing all of the generators. It'd also continue to give the killer limited benefit in the event they're blinded when hooking, which is soon to become a thing - which would continue to provide the killer incentive to leave the hook even if they're blind. Some killer players tend to become pretty spiteful pretty quickly in the face of flashlights, so I believe it'd otherwise be too common a situation where a killer doesn't get their new on-hook info reward, cross their arms, and sit by the hook in a huff.
Since the noise notification is just communicating to the killer something that the auras would already communicate, I don't believe it has that strong of a compounding effect.
The second:
I did forget that the survivor addon retention is only tied to ace in the hole - I just run it all the time when I play survivor 😄 nevertheless, I think it'd be a great way to take advantage of lessons learned from what has elevated BBQ so high. Though on further consideration, it'd probably be appropriate to exclude iridescent addons from this refund system entirely (to emulate the way that survivor iridescent addons are consumed on use)
The third:
These two suggestions aren't really being made with the intention that they'd cohabitate. The killer won't need incentives to leave the hook if the hook leaves the killer instead! 😂
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@Clueless said:
They should make it, so you only lose a stack on a lunge that actually used the bonus.
This is really the only change necessary, and it's such a simple one that it wouldn't overcomplicate the perk. Coup de Grace lunges are really juicy on killers like Ghost Face and Meyers, so swapping the token generation for something that would provide more uses per match (hook states, a cooldown) could make it a mandatory part of those killer's kits. It just feels so bad to lose tokens on accident or end up caught in situations where it's neither advantageous to use a charge but not possible to land a hit without lunging.
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@Xord said:
I think it's important they communicate soon more details about that. It's important that we know because right now we know there will be rewards for P3, but we don't know what.
If it's like 100k bloodpoints, then I won't sacrifice offerings for that. If it's cosmetics, or shards, I probably will prioritize getting to P3.
But right now I'm unsure what's best to do with my bloodpoints.
They've already said it is absolutely not a cosmetic reward in other posts on the forum and used language to downplay expectations - I'm guessing it'll be a BP reward per prestige level per character or something similarly nice but simple.
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Also left-handed, certainly would appreciate the option even if it's just a simple mirroring!
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@Blueberry said:
I'd buff Plague but I don't really think she needs this of all things.
I've always wanted her vomit to also work as kicking a gen rather than making you vomit on it and then kick it. Would make her a little more time efficient which is one of her biggest issues.
I think itd be really cool if Plague's corrupt vomit could break doors on contact - palettes as well might be too strong, but doors would be fun!
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I don't know if it'd be too strong without testing it, but my first thought would be that it'd give Plague a pretty heavy incentive to use expose perks like Haunted Grounds and just worry about fully infecting survivors after she's downed them rather than the more unique chase & barf situation we have now.
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Itd be neat to at least have a sense of what's being adjusted. I'm sure that the changes are still in internal playtesting & balancing at this stage, or something equally "not ready for public playtesting" - but they did tell us about Ringu like many months in advance, why not put together a blog post previewing what's ahead in imprecise terms?
That said, of all the adjectives Ive seen come directly from BHVR employees regarding the upcoming base game changes, I'd fixate the most attention on the word "minor" - camping and tunneling in all likelihood will not be erased from the game, and neither will losing to efficient split & gen. Lessened, however? Hopefully!
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I agree. I was excited to give her a try after the nerfs and found the power really unsatisfying to use, even after going through the trouble to unlock Stridor III on her.
I feel like spirit should be adjusted up to 4.6m/s or have her basekit cooldown/duration improved. The changes she had to give survivors more counterplay options were great, but the other changes raised her skill floor considerably without making much impact on her skill ceiling.
In her current state she doesn't feel worth learning to me. Other killers just have more interesting powers while Spirit's feels tangibly shackled down to contain the amount of power her strongest perks still afford her.
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I failed to include that along with the proposed change to survivors being moved on hooks in a way similar to cages of atonement, the killer can no longer see the auras of hooked survivors.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970282#Comment_2970282
What?! In what way is an average search buff from 2.5 to 3 negatively affecting the chance of a headpop? And just btw, the party hats never were meant to be free kills in the first place. No.1 effect is game slowdown. If you want somehow reliable kills with it, you still can run Tampered Timers + the duration addon combo. But having a killer that gets free kills for the cost of a 4 second pickup animation instead of a 2 second animation would be silly.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970314#Comment_2970314
Yeah, so we have one single and rare occurrence that only in full SWF will be giving a good info to the team. Should I agree to revert an overall good rework to get back to a worse state? And what about the case that the last pick is a 4? Like the whole team is running scared like "don't touch the last gen or Im dead", right? I think this is still kinda balanced, right?
I'm not sure how to respond to the bulk of your question, but it appears to me that you have read into my observation as a criticism of the change. It is not.
If info exists in a tangibly trackable way, highly-motivated players will track it to advantage themselves. Counting and reporting on searches performed will become standard practice for groups in comms, and high-skill Pig players will also make an effort to track how many total searches they have remaining, and adjust accordingly. It seems like a welcome layer of on-the-fly strategizing to me.
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"That's good advice, I need to drop my 3D chess set and pick up a 4D chess set. I'll try to think more about the entire chase as a whole rather than just whatever tile we're looping. Running I'm All Ears is a decent alternative to having superior game sense, however."
I'm All Ears is terrific! I had a "Nonstop Nemesis" build I ran for a long time that was BBQ + All Ears + Lethal Pursuit + Hysteria that was dedicated to starting a chase as soon as the match loaded in and being in chase until the game ends. All Ears on Nemesis in particular is choice for sneaking surprise M2 hits through vaults as survivors very frequently double-back past them after vaulting. I eventually traded Hysteria for Hex: Plaything, and I'm considering No Way Out for it now. Obvious gap is the total absence of gen control, but honestly I enjoy chasing on Nemesis to the point that I contentedly cede the objective control game just to keep scootin'
That said, All Ears is a terrific tool for remaining sticky in chase. In addition to the immediate value, it'll help you sharpen your sense of how survivors route.
And as for more intentional pushing survivors around to where you want them to go - the most common consideration I make when approaching a gen is which direction I want them to see me coming from.
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These animations seem... idk, childish? There's an element of brutality on display here that I guess seems excessive to me. Like 2006-era violent stick person flash animations on Newgrounds.
I'd like the older killers to have moris that have more personality to them but maybe something of a better quality than these.
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While much easier said than done, you want to avoid following survivors to where they want to go - try and herd them into worse areas (or catch them while they're forced into suboptimal pathing to reach the better areas and then disengage). When it comes to avoiding the hold W strat, you need to be thinking not just about the immediate loop but which adjacent tiles are worse. If you're playing a killer who is primarily countered by holding W, anticipate survivors doing so and loop in a way that maximizes your visual information so you can catch those disengages and adjust to stay on their tail.
It's daunting on paper, but if you make a habit of thinking ahead, you'll be surprised far less often and open yourself up to a world of reads and mindgames that involve more than just hiding your red stain around corners.
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Tattle and Speedbump! They're my niece and nephew, and I love them very much even though most trials I am just performing zombie daycare.
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@TMCalypso said:
"In the event that addons adjust the number of traps, so is adjusted the number of searches. So with Amanda's Letter, she has two traps and six searches."
Correct me on this, but isn't this wrong? Each trap can only have 4 searches till the trap is removed. So isn't it still 4 searches even with just 2 traps? Or did I miss something entirely?
Six searches total between the two traps, meaning that the # of searches the first takes will guarantee the second takes the remainder. 4/2 or 3/3.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970282#Comment_2970282
Would it help if if I said that the new system makes it very likely that at least one person will have to search four boxes, which is the only way a Survivor has a chance to die to the trap (outside of hardcore tunneling, which is pretty gamelosing for the Pig anyways)?
Interesting to consider that very high skill SWFs will now know to count and announce searches to plan around who will have to dedicate more or can dedicate less time to searching. Especially in matches where you get a 4/4/3/1 - that last survivor may likely greed pretty hard knowing they just have the one search.
An even higher skill Pig may be able to count searches as well, in some contexts - it's really juicy info to have and will add a lot of strategic considerations at the upper layers of MMR pig matches
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Thank you for sharing! I understand that more technically-complex changes like this can be confusing to many and prone to mis-interpretation, but honestly this sounds like an all-around positive change that makes me more enthusiastic about playing Pig in the future!
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The novelty dried up pretty quickly imo.
That said, the "tell" that she's preparing to jumpscare is that she tilts her head up and her hair parts, revealing more of her face. Like others have said, if you spin the killer you'll also get a more obvious tell when she instantaneously resets her facing to look towards you again.
When Im playing Sadako I usually disable game audio until I get into a lobby - something I commonly do for a lot of killers since I find the bloodweb UI noise to be unnecessarily loud.
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Between trials, the killers congregate in a dimly lit, poorly stocked office-style breakroom before they're individually called over a crackling intercom that they're expected for their next trial.
This is based on nothing but I won't be convinced otherwise.
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"Furtive Chase - Removed from the game."
I've gotta stop you there - everything else you've suggested is definitely reasonable and should be basekit (😛), but what on earth did Furtive Chase do to you? 😆
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I'd love to see my niece (Tattle) and nephew (Speedbump) become a little more coordinated around the map! As it stands currently they provide value so inconsistently that when they do, I commonly see survivors DC over it.
I may be recalling incorrectly, but I think I remember back when Nemesis was in PTB a lot of folks reported a notable drop in framerate when they went against Nemesis, but that report has kind of vanished. I wonder if the zombie pathfinding AI (namely collision detection) was too demanding and they had to knowingly dumb it down. 🤔
In any case, as a nemesis main I'd definitely appreciate being able to see them as an asset in addition to being zombie daycare.
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I'm pretty excited! I'm really looking forward to seeing that 40+ perk change they talked about for this summer - it's likely to rock the game's foundation, for better or worse.
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Seems like a fine evaluation to me. I'd probably still run it at 10% regression - it really just needs to be enough that you can have time to get there before the survivors complete it if it's really close.
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Predators have eyes facing forward so they can track & pursue prey more effectively. Prey have eyes on the sides of their head so they can monitor their surroundings and detect predators more easily.
DBD imitates this relationship by giving killers a focused (punitively narrow) 1st-person perspective, while survivors get the more radar-like prey treatment.
We find being hunted particularly terrifying because our vision is specifically not well suited for handling it.
Limiting it to videogame experiences - try out the game Dark Deception. It's a first person maze game with AI monsters that hunt you down - it's effective, but you'll also find that the audio tells have to be EXTREMELY distinct because you have so little visual information to work off of.
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The closest thing you're describing is Eruption, which I'm pretty sure was intended to be the killer version of blast mine! Survivors touching a gen when eruption goes off get hit with a debuff that prevents them from doing pretty much anything for about 12ish seconds, which is pretty substantial.
I've been running Brutal Strength + Call of Brine + Eruption + Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance on Sadako and having a lot of fun with it, but I bet it'd work well on plenty of other kills, too!
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I stopped carrying to hatch a while ago, knowing how annoying it is to some survivors to have to wait for me to slowly amble around the trial searching for the darn thing while they hear the failed skill check noise endlessly while they let the wiggle skill check meter spin around. Nowadays I just run up to them until they realize I don't plan to kill them and do some twirling around while we look for it together. It's faster and leaves me open to go kick palettes and doors and such on the way.
I also run rancor in almost all of my builds because I love ending a match with a single mori, so I'm already pretty pleased as punch with this change.
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@jamba said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959161#Comment_2959161
You're talking like it's very complicated. It's not. I've been playing this game since 2018 and these situations happen A LOT (as survivor and as killer). You can't define what is a good or bad match for the killer talking this generally. It shouldn't matter how good or bad you were throughout the match because it's an isolated situation (it certainly doesn't matter for survivors, who can even get a free escape after the whole team dies at 3 gens remaining). I'm not saying that the killer needs to have the upper hand all the time. I'm just saying that some things are lazily designed and apparently the Devs are not willing to rethink them. Why nerf pig (a very weak killer) for using a strategy and just ignore survivors doing the same thing (even more efficiently)?
"Yes."
And you don't see my point? Wow. This game is doomed, isn't it?
I see your point, but I don't agree with it. The argument distills down to "I don't think bodyblocking is a valid strategy." If you want to isolate the scenario down to the very specific variables "A healthy survivor separates you from an injured survivor using their collision" then yes, there's nothing there you can do about it.
Twins specifically gets countered by survivors sticking near one another for this exact reason - which is also why notable Twins mains like Lynxi runs Forced Penance in most of her Twins games (due to the frequency of protection hits + the value twins gets from keeping all survivors injured).
I'm hoping you might stop to meditate on why its simultaneously possible for someone to understand your argument and not agree with it, or perhaps why depriving survivors of the ability to bodyblock for each other might end up being reductive for the game in terms of strategy and complexity.
As for Pig - there's not a parallel between a survivor placing themselves between you and an injured survivor in a loop, hallway, or corridor (like one leading to the exit) and the killer obstructing a jigsaw box. You have an option to move & pass through the obstructing David, even if you don't like that option (injured survivors have no collision for a few moments) while the survivors have no recourse to pass through or around the Pig to get at that box unless the killer decides to allow it.
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You've got my permission! If you want to leave, get on outta there!
That said, when I play solo survivor I wouldn't trade the raw feeling of power I get when I successfully rescue someone from death's door for anything.
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I'm more than certain we'll have a PTB with a huuuuuge blog post discussing the changes once they're nearer! For now, there's not much reason to worry until we can actually see what is being changed and how.
Anxious? A bit! But BHVR in my opinion has made almost exclusively good moves for a few months now, so I'm optimistic.
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@jamba said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2958740#Comment_2958740
It's not about protection hits. It's about literally blocking the killer and getting no punishment.
Do you even play the DBD? Survivors rule the game, this is kinda obvious today.
I'd like to help provide you some comfort so you can better reconcile the injustice you're seeing here, but I don't understand your comment. Bodyblocking to force you to swing at them is forcing a protection hit, the consequence is that the survivor is now injured. That they're within range of the exit when this happens and can escape at no risk to themselves is the cumulative consequence of an entire match's worth of successes, failures, and individual decisions - every trial is a power struggle between the killer and survivors, and if the survivors successfully establish control over the match (like, say, having a powered exit gate and uninjured survivors gathered at the gate ready to help run interference & escort injured survivors to the exit) then they not only can, but should take advantage of that for their mutual benefit.
You're right that when the survivors are very well coordinated (more coordinated than would be typically possible without the use of external communication tools) they can be very resilient and difficult to catch, but that's just the way this game currently exists. If the game was just a killing spree simulator on the killer's part, survivors probably wouldn't find the game very interesting. They're not loading up with the expectation to be easy prey.
@jamba said:
What do you do when things like this happen to you? Do you just accept that a survivor standing still just made you lose and you couldn't do anything to turn the situation around?
(and please don't come up with ideal/specific situations to get around it)
Yes.
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@Rogue11 said:
Hard to believe people are actually for this "feature". By the same logic, if all survivors are alive when the gens are done, the game should instantly end with a cutscene of the survivors jumping up and down celebrating. The killer already lost, so it's just entitlement for them to expect another chance at a kill. Or some such nonsense.
It'd be neat if, when loading into a trial, the Entity just picks a side to win without all of that silly "Playing the game" nonsense 😂
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@Chiky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2958878#Comment_2958878
Well, you got a really good point for the reason the pools heal. I hadn't thought it that way.
Fo her vomit trajectory, I'm sure it's lack of practice. If I "aim" to where the survicor will be (just like with the huntress or a kraber in titanfall), it's easier to get then infected. I still feel she's bugged when I get animation and sound effects of hitting the survivors, but they get no infection.
For her infection itself, I just want a way that her infection does something for when you're away. If a survivor away from me interacts with an infected object, I would like that they have a need to use the pools. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of giving them all those status effects to eventually make them use the pools.
There's absolutely ghosting! Ive had numerous times where just a small amount of vomit causes the survivors to shout as though they were infected, but it doesn't actually hit them. It's part of the pain of hit-validation that we just have to live with unfortunately. The only real solution is to vomit on them more than just a hair, which isn't always possible in those narrow windows of opportunity.
And fully infected survivors infect the objects they interact with, which helps with the spread. It is only impactful up to a point (all survivors max infected), but it's not nothing. That said, causing them to develop extra "symptoms" at random (blindness or obliviousness) would be pretty funny.
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@Xyex said:
1. No. That's boring. I'm not playing the game to bored.
2. Mories are worth more BP than sacrifices, lol. A hook is 500, the sacrifice 200, so you get 700 in total. A Mori is 1,000. And there's zero chance they'll give you a free hook of any type for this.
3. See 2.
4. No. Because the exit gate thing would happen for, like, a week. Then they'll just tbag and Dead Hard out before you hit them and nothing changes except now the Killer experience is just considerably worse. Killer is already frequently unfun to play. I should at least be allowed to make my own damn decisions about who I kill.
For the sake of accuracy:
In your scenario if you mori a survivor on first down (no hooks) you get 1,000 points.
If you hook that survivor you get 200 points (Caught!) + 500 points (Hooked) + 250 points (Late Hook) + 200 points (Entity Summoned) + 500 (Late Sacrifice) for a grand total of 1,650 points. (Possibly 1,400 points - I dont recall off the top of my head if you get hooked + late hook). BHVR will definitely know to accommodate for this.
As for the rest, I can't really speak to or modify your preferences but I acknowledge them!
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- Just escort them to hatch, go find things to break, etc. If you really want to let them get hatch, you still have the means to do so.
- They described this new mori as a "finisher mori" (or something like that) - moris I believe count as a weaker score event than sacrifices, but it stands to reason that this particular type of mori will probably not (and will probably also count as a hook for the sake of BBQ stacks - its probably possible for them to do this, too)
- See 2
- I do understand this one - survivors who end up in a corner of the map where the hooks are already used up might also just get left to bleed out by a killer who doesn't want to concede the stalemate. The insta-mori would alleviate this scenario. If the killer is carrying the final survivor, it seems fair to me to declare the killer the victor, there. Also, on the flipside, based on how this is described its hypothetically possible that the last survivor to exit the map in the exit gate is eligible for the insta-mori even if they are knocked down right at the exit gate. If this ends up being the case, it'd be a pretty interesting additional consideration for the last few seconds of the match, eh?
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Howdy! I love plague (if you haven't try Play With Your Food with her - she gets some unique value out of it because her green vomit does not cost stacks!)
Learning how to lead survivors even at point-blank range with the vomit is an acquired skill. The visual effect itself is a deceptive indicator of where "the vomit" actually is, which consists of a chain of invisible orbs that the vomit effect "latches onto" to create the visual effect you see (at least, so far as I understand it). That being said, you'll need to learn to whip your perspective pretty far ahead of survivors in order to coat them in a good, consistent stream. It's just how it is. If I recall, there are addons that increase projectile speed? If so, try that and see if you get more responsiveness from the power.
I really like the locker change (in part because it'd also be a cheeky way to screen for survivors hiding in lockers) and agree that hiding in an infected locker should count as 'interacting' with it and cause the infection to advance.
As for the thoughts about infection, I'm not sure if I agree. While the "best" way to counter plague is to avoid cleansing, it is still a greatly advantageous situation for the plague to only need to land one hit to win chases. The prevalence of dead hard is especially noticeable here though, and a dead hard rework could potentially cause Plague's oppressive influence to skyrocket. However, when you have a mix of survivors who do and don't cleanse, your corrupt purge becomes a MONSTER against those who remain infected. It's kind of like a sick prisoner's dilemma.
And you should be happy that survivors can heal using the fountains. It gives survivors a reason to use the fountains even if they aren't infected. Sure, it can be particularly advantageous to them in certain situations (especially in the endgame) but at the end of the day you do want the survivors to use the pools, and they won't do it unless it benefits them.
The issue, I believe, lies in the Plague's need to be everywhere despite having no mobility. In the early game she needs to infect as many objects as possible, and in the mid-to-late game she needs to be chasing efficiently, defending gens, and also finding the time to collect her power from fountains - which smart survivors will intentionally seek out out-of-the-way spots to cleanse. I don't think this flaw merits a buff, though. It's normal for killers to have a weak spot.
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
I personally feel that there should also be a mercy finisher mechanic if this goes through. It'd be fun that you get to choose. You are supposed to be the power role, after all.
Killer chooses mercy and then gets 20 missed calls from the Entity. 😥
Joking aside, I understand why folks want this feature to be optional, but it's really easy to just walk up to the final survivor and escort them to the hatch. It's my preferred way to do it since it's quicker, plus it's funny to chase a survivor and see how long it takes them to stop and realize I have no intention to hit them.
I know giving the hatch is a somewhat sacred act within the community, but the option is not being removed here.
Though 🤔I suppose it couldn't hurt as an options menu toggle for players who want to auto-mori vs. killers who want a prompt.
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
I personally feel that there should also be a mercy finisher mechanic if this goes through. It'd be fun that you get to choose. You are supposed to be the power role, after all.
Killer chooses mercy and then gets 20 missed calls from the Entity. 😥
Joking aside, I understand why folks want this feature to be optional, but it's really easy to just walk up to the final survivor and escort them to the hatch. It's my preferred way to do it since it's quicker, plus it's funny to chase a survivor and see how long it takes them to stop and realize I have no intention to hit them.
I know giving the hatch is a somewhat sacred act within the community, but the option is not being removed here.
Though 🤔I suppose it couldn't hurt as an options menu toggle for players who want to auto-mori vs. killers who want a prompt.
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I've been thinking a lot about ways to modify this perk, too. Ultimately, I think the issue primarily lies in the dual-value of the ability to use dead hard for distance AND to prolong a chase by saving it for activation at a critical juncture (swing near a palette).
As it stands currently, it's also a perk with such a reflexive value window that it complicates the process of properly validating hits when interacting with dead hard. I think whatever incoming rework targets dead hard will be best served by making its value relevant beyond the span of a killer's lunge.
To your ideas:
1) Certainly an interesting idea, having it incur multiple status effects for use (and thematically, it makes sense - pushing oneself despite injures to exacerbate them) but I wonder about whether it targets the ways in which dead hard is at its most powerful. If the survivor incurs the broken status effect and the exhausted status effect simultaneously, there's a peculiar mix of incentives at play that I think do more to conflict with themselves than create a clear image of what should happen next:
* A killer is more likely to remain committed to a chase if they know the survivor is exhausted. Dropping chase means the survivor will immediately begin recharging their dead hard again.
* A killer is less likely to remain committed to a chase if they know the survivor is broken. They know the survivor will remain injured and can potentially be caught out while injured.
* A survivor who brings dead hard is less likely to play safe while injured, as they have a chance at evading a hit while injured. Broken in this case is not as likely to feel punitive to them as healing is not as urgent.
2) This, if I understand correctly, would remove all risk from dead hard and make it even more powerful than it currently is - making it a literal third health state, something that it's already accused of being in its current state. Imagine how the nemesis mains would feel having to hit survivors four times!
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@DevilDragoon said:
little review and general feedback from a player with 1257h in dbd. [side info: mostly played solo/duo]
When i look back i'm not sure if i would say i had fun or a gameplay at all. Well, here's my story:
After many hours of getting better and better in chases against killers i got a point in matchmaking where i only met tunneler and camper every match, so I couldn't call that gameplay or fun when either one of the team or yourself is straight up tunneled or camped out over and over again. I've seen much from insidious camping bubba to killers setting timers to avoid ds but regardless of the no-fun part against this playstyle it is not even rewarding here an example:
Tunneling: If you are being tunneled out you might get 8k boldness bloodpoints and that's it nothing more because you have to run for your life and can't do anything else the whole time meanwhile the others couldn't farm boldness nor altruistic points leaving that categories at nearly 0.
Camping: Basically to be short the match ends boring (at some point i saw youtube vids on my 2nd screen during the match because when you are on the hook you're dead nothing to do about and if not the killer won't come to you anyway just camping that hooked dude) with additionally no one getting more than 16k bloodpoints.
Let's now think of some solutions to make such a playstyle as miserable as possible:
Against camping add this mechanic:
if a killer is within 32m (normal Terrorradius range) of the hook the timer is paused and resumed as soon as the killer leaves it. This would make camping impossible why is such a thing not in the game yet?
Tunneling:
1.) Add perks like: 30s cooldown: you can take a protection hit for someone without being injured.
2.) Ds shouldn't run out after such a short time (maybe add another minute or 2 then it would be ok) and if triggered either the killer is stunned for much longer (at least doubled the time) or just reactivate the perk over and over, so that the killer is forced to not tunnel someone out. This perk alone as "fear" (the existence of this alone, not that someone actually uses it) would be enough to reduce the amount of tunneling killers extremely because this would be a perk that will make tunneling killers loose this round completely.
After that said now to another part I think of quite important to mention:
The metaperks especially for survivors, if i understand it right you want now to rework and improve other perks to make them more appealing to play instead of the meta ones and in case of dead hard i can understand that reworking other exhausting perks could be the answer here but in case of bt and ds i doubt that will work. The reason behind this is simple: have you ever questioned yourself how this meta was formed? It's clearly obvious when thinking about that question that these perks are taken against a tunneling and camping playstyle and the fact that they are meta (most used) perks on survivors shows that this playstyle is not uncommon on killers so instead of doing something against tunneling and camping just making other perks more appealing with the same tunnel and camp issue would not change anything at least in my opinion. In my view bt should be even introduced in the base-kit I mean most current survivor-meta perks can be avoided by the killer by just not being/playing like an *******. For example: if you as killer don't run after the person which was unhooked instead chasing the person which unhooked... this 1000IQ move makes bt and ds 2 of the "strongest" and most-used perks completely useless and would bring fun back to the game but here we are killers complaining about those perks...
My final words are that I am currently in a state where I quit the game and I decided when someday something is done against camping and tunneling I will come back because its still a great game. Have a nice day.
I mentioned in my own post that negative "disincentives" to try and punish tunneling & camping out of the game will cause a lot of stress without addressing underlying incentives that encourage the behaviors to begin with.
"if a killer is within 32m (normal Terrorradius range) of the hook the timer is paused and resumed as soon as the killer leaves it. This would make camping impossible why is such a thing not in the game yet?"
If a killer wanted to grief, having an indefinite way to keep a hooked survivor trapped would be a pretty great way to do so.
2.) Ds shouldn't run out after such a short time (maybe add another minute or 2 then it would be ok) and if triggered either the killer is stunned for much longer (at least doubled the time) or just reactivate the perk over and over, so that the killer is forced to not tunnel someone out. This perk alone as "fear" (the existence of this alone, not that someone actually uses it) would be enough to reduce the amount of tunneling killers extremely because this would be a perk that will make tunneling killers loose this round completely.
I think increasing the duration wouldn't be a bad idea, though if you were around for before the perk was nerfed, you'll find that killer's "fear" of DS when it was more ubiquitous led eventually into killers adopting a mindset of "getting DS out of the way" and intentionally jumping on the opportunity to trigger it so that they could ignore the effect later.
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@jamba said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2954873#Comment_2954873
Read my comment above. It was very close to the gate. I couldn't pass through the door without hitting him. If I hit him, I lose. If I don't hit him, I lose.
You'd already lost before that point, sadly. Protection hits are a thing in this game and the health states exist as a resource for the survivors to strategically leverage to their own advantage. I know it's frustrating to be in those tense, final moments where an uninjured survivor plays quarterback to keep you from catching the one you want, but this is a game that already gives the survivors next to nothing in terms of explicit ways to "fight back" against the killer - it's for the most part indirect (like the scenario you're describing)
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Here's what I'd change
* Disarming a trap takes 2 additional seconds - this would make it significantly less productive / more dangerous to disarm traps, especially nearby the Trapper. No change to the amount of time it takes to rescue a teammate in a trap.
* 2 of the 6 traps begins the trial activated - RNG, but the fun sort that could provide early game misdirection towards survivors with the added risk of some early injures.
* Increase the radius a trap activates slightly - The ability to sidestep a trap placed in the center of an average-width corridor significantly defangs the danger of traps, especially at high levels. Trappers relying on the vacuuming effect of dropping a palette in order to secure traps on survivors is a major indicator of this.
* Make the existence of some kind of "low-medium height brush" object a standard for all maps and include them on maps that currently lack it. (Piles of trash, paper waste for indoor maps?)
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I agree it could afford to be even like 5% quieter. It's noticeably louder than most other chase music and it'll still be terrific even if it's more in line with the rest of the tracks.
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I dont know if it necessarily needs to be shown in the pregame lobby but it would be really nice to display in the post-match results screen. Dota 2 started doing this with pre-made groups a long time ago in a simple & elegant way:
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To help illustrate the point: Mad Grit + Agitation + Iron Grasp is a recognizable meme build because it's exciting, allows the killer to do something they otherwise can't do, and it's overall a pretty silly way to spend your time inverting a moment where the killer is somewhat vulnerable into one where they're deceptively dangerous.
Compare that to a build like Unnerving Presence + Distressing + Coulrophobia which is still a comical stacking of synergizing perks to produce a relatively unique effect - but the killer doesn't actually get to experience the bounty of these perks functioning first-hand, so even within the highly motivated subset of meme killers, you won't see it nearly as often.
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@Hanzo_Hasashi7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926108#Comment_2926108
if you hear then why no one fixes the maps and generators speed?
oh right i completely forgot
you can only hear survivor mains my bad
what?