MikaKim
MikaKim
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@R2k said:
Game definitely not survivor sided and I'm waiting for survivor mains to complain here how bad they are and killers needs more nerfs. (No joke)
I'm happy Otz finally recorded obvious. If he went full items and perks it is possible to have 100% winrate once u gather decent teammates.
Played since release and you won't get your survivor revolution unfortunately because of the history of the game and where we are now:
Since release, killer has been buffed, survivor nerfed. This is important to understand and through examples you’ll see why that has happened. It shows you why the game has had the trajectory it has and why you'll keep seeing 'poor killer' posts.
The story is that the devs failed to understand that people would want to play with friends in an online game (serious), what we got was ‘lobby wars’ at release. Where survivors would join different lobbies looking for their friends and leave if they couldn’t find them. It was horrible trying to find games. Hence why we got swf, that completely unbalanced the game by creating coordinated survivors that could communicate. The devs have been nerfing survivor ever since and crippled solo survivor play in that time.
Historically 2 escapes, 2 kills is the devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like that but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerfs and all the killers current buffs. Killers now are up around 70% kills and unfortunately due to the trajectory of the game the 2 escapes and 2 kills has largely been left behind un noticed.
There's been so many survivor nerfs at this point; Infinites gone, vaulting/perk/map/pallet nerfs, bloodlust added, end game timer added, hatch close added. All this has made being killer easier and survivor harder since release.
Look at the SB vs. NOED debates that happened at release all those years ago. SB now is mediocre at best where as NOED is still a high tier perk. SB got nerf after nerf after nerf, layers of nerfs, literally. We never used to have 'exhaustion' you could run balanced landing and SB side by side for separate bursts of speed. Survivors have largely learned that complaining won't do anything.
Killers have learned that if they complain, the devs will isten, this coupled with marketing and advertising. There’s nothing special about survivors, they are just reskins with some new perks that all play the same. THATS IT. EACH killer has its own unique play style and as you see from their advertising, its always new killers they promote heavily. Survivors get a mention, but its never really the selling point. The fact is devs prioritise killers over survivors and its obvious when you consider the following. It also means the devs have created a sense of entitlement around ‘poor’ killers.
DBD reddit, back in the day was all about poking fun at survivors and giving you the impression that every second game is SWF and heavily biased against killers. Which was a lie. OP SWF games are maybe one in 30 games with most swf games being friends who are just wanting to have fun and usually end up wiping. But there was no push back, the killer echo room there would down vote anything survivor sided. This forum is just an extension of that.
That coupled with the points I mentioned previously meant that a lot of survivor mains left the game, or in my case, come onto the forum to laugh at clueless killers only to ge mob by the killer dominated forums.
After you watch nerf, after nerf, after nerf as it all gets taken away. As a survivor you just adapt and overcome and play something else for awhile if it gets too miserable.
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Wow an actual honest appraisal of the situation. Its kind of rare on these forums.
Unfortunately I don't think this forum will like that, the narrative tends to be 'poor killer', the fact that an average killer will still get kills, compared to an avarage survivor who will never escape is telling you something about the current dichotomy.
Consider too, the fact that killers have been over 3+ kills holds well against your coordinated swf groups. (You say 50%?)
The points that I didn't see you mention was every game swf for him? If that's so, it would explain his high escape rate.
The real losers here are soloq survivors, which this forum continually fails to talk about.
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@Sweet_Tour said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2577989#Comment_2577989
That's because those killers got stomped on at medium or high MMR by survivors who think playing without meta perks is a travesty. So they end up at the same MMR as you somehow. Which I knew was gonna happen when they implemented this awful system.
Lol the reach.
What I observed when we were under ranks was low rank survivors getting fed to regular high ranks killers. The inverse was true too, if I got my face smashed by high rank killers they feed a low rank killer to me as a survivor.
The current system just lets the devs hide the fact.
We've been at over 3k kills for more than a year now and tribalistic killers still find something to whine about.
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Cheese hits.
@bjorksnas said:
That looked like a solid hit especially considering server jank
Even if that held true they could adjust the hits so that only a 'solid' hit registers.
A killer catches you on your pinkie and mortally wound you, makes the game look like a joke.
See OP post.
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Same here. Infinite loading screen. Has happened multiple times at this point.
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The only time I'm sure that a 'woke' referenced post has been allowed to stay up.
The annoying part is that it references one of the least impacted and relative 'woke' arguments.
It's only because it's in favour of the game/devs that its allowed to stand. Had it gone into any real meat of a 'woke' argument it woulda been taken down instantly.
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Killers complaining about survivors (again) on a killer dominated forum, for a perk that hasn't even had time to be fully flushed out.
Waaa poor killers post. Next.
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@blankfaced said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2493102#Comment_2493102
That entire post is a load of crap.
The developers themselves have put out the stats (they're old so it's probably worse now) and only 20% of matches had no one SWFing. It doesn't take being well coordinated to faceroll a killer.
What do most people find fun? Winning right? And what does this game consider a win? Escaping right? So the people "just playing with their pals having fun" are still sweating so they all escape whether they want to own up to it or not. (The type to claim they're not sweaty but bring 3 or 4 meta perks.)
I agree with the last part about a separate queue for SWF but the game's player base is way too small to do that. Killers already see 10+ minute queues.
Well according to you not many people are having fun as survivor anymore.....
You want stats?
Killers have been at 3+ kills for over a year now. So by your own metric they need to tone down the buff to killers and give something to the survivors. So, thanks?
gg
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2493165#Comment_2493165
First sentence is already false since it was always dependant on region and time of day and is mostly subjective.
My game in eu west after 8 pm in the last 6 months had queues so short that i couldn't even choose which BP offering to pick.
In the morning to afternoon I would've to wait 2-10 minutes.
Now with sbmmr there is no longer this extreme rank widening for matching with long queue time (for now). And the distribution of killers and survivors across ratings is most probably just not the perfect bell curve it would need for fast queues. Coupled with the disparity between the perfect 4:1 ratio depending on day time like before sbmmr.
Not sure how you could say its subjective when you could literally see the numbers of killers and survivors at any one time.
The rest is all valid points which can only be discounted with me going back, pulling the numbers, showing them to you and then you being a good faith actor with that knowledge.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2493227#Comment_2493227
I'll add more details as to why I believe that they don't mean new survivors I suppose, since that's what you're bringing up to me.
My guess is they didn't discount it because the average player is not a new survivor and no one was talking about new survivors afaik. Unless otherwise stated or hinted at, the assumption is that they are talking about the average survivor, not new ones.
That would make no sense, new survivors struggle with everything because they don't have any experience or knowledge, especially on "day 1". Also, who judges balance based on day 1 survivors? Its an unreasonable assumption to say they were talking about new ones with the statement they gave and the thread up to that point.
You're also specifically saying "you expect new survivors..." as if they mentioned new survivors or there's some reasonable reason to think they were talking about them when there's not. At this point you're putting words in their mouth.
When new survivors are spoken about they are singled out or explicitly stated as they are not the norm.
What have they said to give any indication whatsoever that they were talking about new survivors?
By the same token I could say "No they were talking about really experienced survivors, they have no excuse to not learn the spots." After all they didn't discount them either.
Honestly at this point just ask them if they meant new survivors, rather than make such a large assumption. Us debating what they meant isn't going to solve anything and a waste of time.
I was just pointing out that's very likely not what they meant as that would be out of nowhere and there's no reason to believe that's what they meant, and placing my own response to what you said that in the event that we bring up newer survivors they have access to maps and small game as well so they don't need to know the spots. The same way any survivor player doesn't need to know the spots, they have tools to find the totem(s) for them.
Adding on to that point, I honestly can't take you as making a good faith argument if you're trying to use day 1 players as a measuring stick for balance or expectations with anything for the overall game other than the new player experience.
I'm sorry but your first sentence is 'I guess' and then a paragraph that I started to read, but then realised we were still stuck talking about what kind of survivors.
The 'average survivor'? Define average, what are the units of metric to describe the average? Hours? Escapes?
You then finish with 'very not likely', I honestly wonder why you bothered typing so much to what boils down to anecdotal subjective talking points. I'll even throw in an over analysis of my original statement, while ignoring the fact that all the OP had to do was clarify what they were talking. Rather than your long winded 'I think so'.
Furthermore, as I had referenced previously, soloq vs swf play out vastly differently. So even in that context I'd still laugh at OP statement because it was so limited in scope and provides no context. Even if we discount 'new survivors'.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480060#Comment_2480060
I don't think they mentioned anything even hinting about new players so my guess is they're probably talking about more experienced ones. If I missed something lmk.
Even so, small game is also a base perk that "newb" survivors can get and so are maps (item). New players will struggle with everything though, so that's not exactly a good reference point imo.
They didn't discount it either. You point is kinda mute.
Like when the say 'survivors' and not soloq vs swf. Which are 2 completely different things.
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Killer queue times have always been longer.
You could actually track this with peer to peer. Not so much now that its centralised.
I suspect the average killer is more engaged with the game than the average survivor. Therefore killers are here to up their mmr/grade etc. Where as the average survivor has just been playing as usual.
Historically I've observed low rank survivors getting fed to high rank killers to try to bring down queue times. As someone whose played since release, if I saw a couple games where I was expected to carry low rank survivors, say 2 games, on the 3rd game id get a low rank killer. I guess to 'balance' it out.
The thing I find curious is that the devs havent ever really cared for their newb survivors. With the expectations around how to effectively manage your game; things like noed (cleanse totems) etc. Or before the ruin nerf, which was just creating trainwrecks at low ranks. I guess theirs an exponential amount of new survivors that keep feeding the algorithm.
I'm always curious if at some point the number will dry up. Because its generally a miserable experience for low rank survivors.
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Once again the killer dominated forums find something else to whine about.
Keys have been nerfed, even recently and are only useful when hatch ACTUALLY APPEARS.
And to compare keys with a mori which do completely different things just looks like desperation to begin with.
Build a bridge, move on.
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I don't think this is exclusive to pin head.
What I see is, the new system feeding low rank survivors to high rank killers. The survivor knows their in a game above their rank and so d/c.
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I've seen an uptick in what I perceive as low rank survivors getting fed to high ranks killers. I relate this to the uptick in d/c survivors who know they've been placed in a game above their rank.
If the OP 'feels good' because he's getting 4k after 4k. I consider my theory as holding true.
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Killers grossly over exaggerate how many games are good coordinated swf.
Some times (rarely) Ill sync well with soloq players and get accused of swf.
Its also worth pointing out that many swf groups are just friends having fun. Live or die they dont really care. That gets missed alot by killers too, when they whine about swf.
The devs should have had an 'opt out' for killers who dont want swf. Because killers, to this day, whine about that one game 30 games ago, where they were owned by an swf group.
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@dannyfrog87 said:
thats what happens i guess when most killers are underpowered and nerfed too the ground. gutted you know? lol.
That's not accurate.
Its more about path of least resistance.
Pick w/e killer makes your job easier. You can say its because other killers are under powered, but its only relative to those killers. The point being its easy to get a 4k with most killers, some just take more work than others.
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@Elcopollo said:
If you know you can beat them, then beat them. If you know you can beat them, yet you lose to them, then it's pretty much your problem lol
Sorry did I miss the state the obvious competition?
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@Foxy_Teltac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480474#Comment_2480474
First post got sent during internet issues so it didn't get picked up till later, so when my internet issues cleared up I sent the 2nd one because the 1st one was still on the way. Btw chill your ego please, you're one of the people that seriously make conversation something to loathe
Ups, I edited my post.
And no, if you're a legion main, its probably you who needs to look in the mirror.
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@Foxy_Teltac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480186#Comment_2480186
Sounds like you're projecting
Funny, seeing as how you replied to the same post twice (why not just edit it).
It looks like you are, thanks for playing.
EDIT: (See like this) BTW if your one of those legion players that WHINED about legion nerfs back in the day. Going into ridiculous threads, with post after post about how bad it was. Only for a developer to tell you guys, point blank, THAT IT WASN'T A NERF. That legion was still up around the SAME KILL RATIO. So it wasn't a nerf, it was a change that legion mains blew out of proportion.
It was because of moments like that, when viewing threads like these. That I have no respect for the OP, it just looks like more of the same. With killers not understanding how to play it, and its easier to come here and complain than it is to L2P.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480159#Comment_2480159
Sorry this is a non troll post thank you
Oh I'm dead serious.
EVERY dlc/update like this sees an OP EXACTLY like this one. Every. Single. Time.
Hence the NOED reference 'Why can't I get easy kills (instead of L2P the new killer)'.
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New DLC/update que NOED killer: 'why cant I get easy kills?'
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It's not hard to know where the spawn areas are.
That's a silly statement.
Some maps are harder than others.
NOED is a base perk that newb killers can get, but you expect newb survivors to figure out the whole totem cleanse (or else) noed on day 1?
hahahaha
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They're hedging their bets.
Rank has been a waste of time recently.
At release, when you had real infinites, making rank 1 killer meant something. Only time I see rank even mentioned nowdays, is when the lesser minded try to throw insults at you in end game lobby ie. You're rank 10, while I'm rank 8, you must be bad.
There's no point sweating rank 1. If these changes go through, it still won't be enough to sweat rank 1, but the devs hope it will be enough. If it isn't, they'll change it.
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-State of the Game-
Devs encourage it so people do it.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479849#Comment_2479849
Can you reccomend me some good necromancer builds?
Yes, yes I can <3
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@Zozzy said:
Garbage you made it swf friendly allowing them to communicate body blocks from NOED while still being annoying for solo players. Use a totem perk and sacrifice one of your meta second chances or stop complaining.
SWF at release or continue with 'lobby wars' were you even there?
'2 kills, 2 escape' metric, now have a bait and switch with 3+ kills for over a year now.
But lets keep those entitled killers floating around the killer dominated forum so they can QQ moar and yell 'sToP cOmPlaLiniNg'.
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@Nikkiwhat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479853#Comment_2479853
Thanks for stopping by 🧁
1k+ posts of nothing?
gg
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Doctor would still have to be up there. Even after the 'rework' doctor is still as annoying as ever.
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Anecdotal subjective post from OP, on a killer dominated forum.
Next.
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NOED, still carrying bad killers in 2021.
Said bad killers make mid rank based off a cheese perk, never learnt how to play the game and wonder why now they are getting owned.
NOED usage turns into entitlement: Que mid rank killers QQ posts about OP survivors and nerfs because said killer remained below average, never having learnt the game.
'It's much easier to maintain a belief system, than to investigate truth'
Stop encouraging entitlement.
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I think it just comes down to hardcore players who take themselves (too?) seriously. So your average skill level for PC games is generally going to be higher because of such factors. #PCMasterRace
But that's anecdotal.
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'If you camp with a M1-killer good survivor will always get the rescue. So its not a problem if some killer camp bc you can just rescue.
Granted in solo que it happens rarely but thats a problem with solo communication and matchmaking.'
What even is this statement, a good killer that facecamps isn't going to slip up. What your alluding too is coordinated swf because in your VERY NEXT SENTENCE you admit its not the same for soloq and therefore swf groups that don't coordinate.
Please post less but think about your content more. I'm 2 posts into you and already tired. How have you managed nearly 2k?
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'I personally dont mind camping so much, but i can understand that a facecamping killer from the start is boring. But camping has its uses to win the game and you shouldnt limit the killer in his options too much.'
And there it is, the justification of every killer main to camp, because the devs allow it.
Calling a face camp 'boring' is certainly a more positive take.
This is where you see the killer entitlement on the forums while watching the devs encourage that entitlement. While seeing said killers complain about entitled survivors on a forum dominated by killers. Oh the irony.
gg devs gg
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@SpaghettiYOLO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2386408#Comment_2386408
They can't fix user error. That's what that was here. Misjudged how much time he had and when to drop. So basically, stop camping pallets. If you're really going to drop it, then just drop the thing and gain your distance instead of half of the killer's job.
1) You've completely missed the point of my post, read it again, user error wasn't in question.
2) Your way of using a pallet is your play style (and inefficient from my perspective).
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2385511#Comment_2385511
I'm not saying a reinstated penalty won't prevent any DCs, just not enough all by itself.
And nobody's saying it will be enough by itself either. So it seems like we're in agreement.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2385548#Comment_2385548
I'm a survivor main. There are five players in each trial, four of whom are survivors. When you DC, you're ruining the trial for four other players.
If DC penalties were so easily bypassed, we wouldn't have DCers try to convince people otherwise.
lol
You have too much time on your hands and don't pay attention. We've already had this conversation else where, all you've done is stuck you fingers in your ears and gone 'lalalalalalala' rather than adress my points over there it seems.
BTW I still don't care if some d/c in my game.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2385511#Comment_2385511
I'm not saying a reinstated penalty won't prevent any DCs, just not enough all by itself.
And nobody's saying it will be enough by itself either. So it seems like we're in agreement.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2385548#Comment_2385548
I'm a survivor main. There are five players in each trial, four of whom are survivors. When you DC, you're ruining the trial for four other players.
If DC penalties were so easily bypassed, we wouldn't have DCers try to convince people otherwise.
LOL, the whole I play survivor mostly is usually the opening salvo of a killer main in my experience.
What your arguing is design choice. D/C is bad and easy for the average person to understand, to understand how steam, family share works takes a little more understanding, as you've just demonstrated with your un-insightful response.
FYI when a survivor leaves a game I'm usually like 'yea fair enough'. So no, that person did not ruin the trial for me. I have fun either way.
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In news this week:
A killer main complains on the killer dominated forum that survivors complain too much who consistently have their voiced trivialized on said forum.
Must be a slow news week.
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@GannTM said:
Are you being sarcastic? If so then I have to say that that looks like a clean hit.
Then they haven't fixed the real problem have they.
Because when you say (insert technical explanations about how you've improved it) only to watch the trade off still occurring, I don't really care what you've done.
They might aswell said 'me great' while chesthumping.
Yea kewl, it doesn't look any different and it plays out EXACTLY the same.
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Half these comments just read as killers missing out on their infini mori 4k so their epeen took a hit.
Besides family share on steam mitigated d/c penalties anyway, these post are just low hanging fruit, because its easier to point a finger.
I guarantee you, you've lost more new players because they got camped/tunneled out of a game so just left only to get penalised for the experience.
The players leaving because of no d/c penalty a small minority.
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Killers have been up around 3 kills per game for over a year now so the impact of SWF is minimal.
As always people have no insight into soloq which is just horrible relative to swf or playing killer, or anything else you complained about.
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The introduction of d/c penalties was hilarious. Before they were implemented I saw some really good discussions about why they were a bad idea and what alternatives there were.
Now that we've had d/c penalties some players are just going to be UNABLE to mentally move beyond that. They'll be that old man that has a romantic idea of 'back in my day they had d/c penalties and the game was great, now look at it!'
Sometimes I feel this games' success was luck rather than a significant insight into what the gaming population wanted.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2313121#Comment_2313121
You're telling me that if you queue 10-15 minutes for a survivor game and the killer quits instantly because they don't like the map or the first gen got done too fast you'd be 100% fine with that?
I'm not sure I believe it
I agree with @MissKitty95 I personally make my own fun.
Also, you provide a bad example.
Most killers don't leave like that, so your talking about the exception to the rule, so impact is minimal. Also who has 10-15min survivor queue times, I don't.
Furthermore, only a stupid killer would leave. Games are based on attrition, the longer a game goes the less survivors have at their disposal to survive, which obviously benefits killers.
As such it's mainly survivors who leave, because when you get camped tunneled out of the game by a sweaty killer, you leave with about 2k if this happens right at the start of a game. There's literally no point to stay beyond some ethical moralisation.
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@tippy2k2 said:
It's been very strange. I just got back from a week vacation (so no DBD) and with how many threads I saw on this topic, I thought for sure it would be a painful mess of a time but at least out of the six games I've played today, one person DC'ed (and I barely count that as they DC'ed on the hook after the party let them hit 2nd stage).
I'm not sure if I'm just lucky or what it is. I have avoided playing Nemesis as it sounds like it's still a huge mess for people so maybe that's part of it?
A percentage of the killer base on these forums is in short, entitled.
It's like those OP SWF games they always talk about. Yes, they're out there but the percentage of those games you encounter is so low. But with all the whining you'd think it was every second game.
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@MrBuffalo said:
I mean ive seen a crap ton of killers DC if the first 60 seconds arent in their favour so... At this point idc bout anyone Dcing. Which is an unpopular opinion but for a game that is a broken mess I think it was kinda stupid to have a DC penalty.
This.
For those who are stuck whining, read his comment again.
The D/C penalty was so far round the bend that the rest of the game hasn't had a chance to catch up. All the devs have done is offsided a % of the population with unfair penalties.
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On a positive note, the number of camping tunneling sweaty killers has gone down considerably.
So that's a positive.
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Really? My issue is I get bored as killer. I tend to 4k after 4k before I decide to go back to survivor.
Killer feels action orientated, survivor feels more suspense/thriller.
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Freddy was nerfed previously because he was so easy.
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At this stage aspects such as end game, hugely favours killer.
So to just focus on NOED is more like 'whatever'.
I think its more prudent to talk about how the devs have moved the goal posts in regards to how it was a metric of 2 escape 2 kills but we've been around 3 survivor kills for over a year and people still cry about 'poor killers'.
Those conversations address your concerns better. But the killer dominated forums can't deal with that unfortunately.
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@Triforcer said:
This is pretty obvious, but I've always thought the devs have a way, way longer nerf roadmap than they let on in the developer updates. The gut punches to survivors and killers are intentionally spaced and alternated to not drive away one segment of the population for too long.
Killers just got a meganerf this patch, and survivors are next in line with DS/OoO. That means the nerf guns (for the next mid-chapter patch) are squarely focused on the killers. Two of the following three things will happen:
(1) Freddy meganerf
(2) Spirit meganerf
(3) NOED being made useless (probably they will add a requirement that 3 of the 5 totems still be up for it to activate)
They won't do all three, and the third will be saved for the next killer nerf patch. But after those three dragons are slayed, there won't be a lot of obvious candidates to nerf on the killer side...
The only way I can think you managed to draw that conclusion is if you compartmentalized your information in some way.
Either that or its a form of cognitive dissonance. Your alternating theory is wrong.
History OF THE GAME:
Since release, killer has been buffed, survivor nerfed. This is important to understand and through examples you’ll see why that has happened. It shows you why the game has had the trajectory it has and why we are now in our current quagmire.
It all started with the introduction of swf and the 2 escapes, 2 kills devs unit of metric. Although that metric has held at a solid 3 kills one escape for over a year now according to recent stats.
The devs failed to understand that people would want to play with friends in an online game (serious), what we got was ‘lobby wars’ at release. Where survivors would join different lobbies looking for their friends and leave if they couldn’t find them. It was horrible trying to find games. Hence why we got swf, that completely unbalanced the game by creating coordinated survivors that could communicate. The devs have been nerfing survivor ever since and completely crippled solo survivor play in the process.
It also important to mention marketing and advertising. There’s nothing special about survivors, they are just reskins with some new perks that all play the same. THATS IT. EACH killer has its own unique play style and as you see from their advertising, its always new killers they promote. Survivors get a mention, but its never really the selling point.
100% killers are prioritized over survivors. Despite the group think mentality of this forum saying the otherwise.