MarcoPoloYolo
MarcoPoloYolo
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@Warcrafter4 said:
To TLDR what all these people are asking for:
They want Deathslinger to be completely useless and loss nearly all of his power.
I mean how else can you explain them asking for gutting his zoning and quick scoping.
Removing deep wounds from his kit entirely.
Finally want his shot to be dodgeable even at point blank.
They also want him to have to charge up his shot despite him not charging is one of the main differences between him and huntress.
Needless to say they won't be happy until they never have to play against him again. So no change short of effectively removing him from the game will ever make them happy.
Be charitable. There's quite a few saying don't touch him at all. I myself, for the sake of those that find his M2 spam annoying would like a tradeoff to weaken the zoning but give him more mobility (his current weakness).
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No headphone Spirit is.......... a flex.
Well, you won't be hearing subtle sounds like footsteps, so Whispers is basically mandatory for you because of Iron Will. You'll get hate for it in endgame chat, but you're a Spirit with presumably bad audio, so yeah.
The objectively best perks remaining would be corrupt intervention, ruin, pop.
If you want a more unique style that can also be hilariously effective and downright evil, try ruin undying Haunted.
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@VSchmitt said:
Idk. what I don't like in him is the "zoning" with m2 spam. Maybe make him have a wind-up kinda like Huntress' hatchets?
Just do what games do about bunny hopping. Just make each ADS progressively slower until a cooldown is done. Problem solved. Deatshlinger maintains his identity without the infinite zoning. He should also have his mobility buffed.
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I've heard of the idea of it being a loadout point system. That'd be better. If BHVR can correctly rate the value of add-ons, then it would be a system of trade-offs and not "how much BP do you want to pump into a killer or Survivor." Granted, this would require major nerfs. Imagine some of the killer Iris or every survivor having BNP every game. That much would be awful.
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Because as a second chance perk it really doesn't feel good even if all exhaustion perks have different ways to accomplish the same thing (extend chases with no counterplay with Head on being the exception). Dead Hard for distance pulls the rug from under the killers. So the frustration that the perk gives is proportional to the effort required to corner the survivor in the first place. Basically, think of every reason why survivors hate Spirit, and make it a survivor perk. That's Dead Hard. Doesn't mean you shouldn't use it, but the feelings are valid.
@Crowman said:
I guess it's because DS got nerfed and OoO is getting changed that people needed a new perk to complain about.
Then you haven't been paying attention, because people have been complaining about DH for a long time before the DS nerf announcement.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/244331/mental-gymnastics-petitioning-for-the-olympics
Censor the names, just a heads up.
Fixed. Leaving the "use breakdown" name up, because that'd kind of relevant for intent.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2126669#Comment_2126669
Because if you buff them right now, they can very easily become that oppressive release Legion again.
Reduce his stun? He loses too little distance and hitting someone with FF is a free down.
Reduce the cooldown? Survivors have no hope of juking his power and having it be meaningful.
Legion needs a rework, sort of like what I proposed over a year ago, to help him get away from an altered design off of a broken original design.
Not really, because his power is no longer lethal.
Legion's fatigue is literally twice as long as Nurse's fatigue. Reducing it back to 3 seconds (the same as a wipe animation) will not suddenly cause Legion to become OP.
Even if it was 15 seconds, that is meaningful. Any chase where it takes longer than 20 seconds to get a hit is one you want to avoid as killer.
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I generally try not to DC, but 2 days ago I had a rough time. My left eye lid was swelling, and I took an allergy medicine in case it was related. First match as Nurse was at Hawkins. It was actually a wholesome match. Second match was Hawkins.............again. This time with immersed survivors genrushing. At that point I was both bored and frustrated at the match, and I didn't have double recharge on. That was the first DC. The second was the third match when I got Lery's. Then the fourth match, I was tilted, and had trouble hitting my blinks, (the allergy meds might have had that effect too). I was going to stick with it despite the BM's...............until I got the blink cancel...............5 times in a row. At that point, I had it with DBD and played Home Sweet Home. Had a better time.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2126224#Comment_2126224
He's badly designed and feels miserable to play, Survivors still despise him as well.
I can literally list everything that makes him awful, if you like.
I've never had people complain about Legion when I play them. And when they do, it has nothing to do with Legion. They unironically got mad over M1 mind games. Not every survivor has release Legion PTSD. They 100% need to have some of the changes reverted. The instant they removed the ability to lower deep wounds with consecutive hits, the problem was solved. Well, aside from mixtape, which is why Legion shouldn't be able to use the power at partial gauge. Really mixtape needs entirely reworked, but BHVR is just sitting on Legion doing nothing with them.
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Spirit - make her anti-loop less obnoxious but give her more map mobility
Deathslinger - Same.
Stealth and dash needs buffs for pig.
Plague needs to be able to inject corrupt purge on any pool.
Myers needs a rework. Either make evil within 3 worth being difficult to obtain and have limited uses, or remove the whole tier 1 nonsense and let him tier 3 as many times as he wants. He still wouldn't be a great killer with the later option.
Trapper needs to have all his traps from the beginning. Beyond that, I have no idea. What exactly do you do with Trapper other than make him able to telekinetically rearm his traps or something? Clearly BHVR doesn't want them hidden judging by reworked grass.
Trickster is simply ok, but I'd like to see his power reworked. A Gatling-gun style killer just conceptually doesn't work in DBD.
Twins should be able to switch quicker.
Legion needs their fatigue to be back to their old numbers. Perhaps they need a status effect for a second frenzy hit rather than lethality.
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Well, for starters, he has add-ons to increase his throwing movement speed. Dunno the numbers. Second, his movement at base starts at almost survivor speed when throwing. Third, why is him getting hits on T/L walls a problem? If he couldn't, he'd be the only ranged killer that struggles on them (and he actually still do).
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@GannTM said:
SWF is fine lol. Spirit and Nurse do need nerfs because they’re uncounterable in the right hands.
SWF is uncounterable in the right hands lol. That's why it's bitched about. You know, aside from ruining some mechanics.
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Ok, here's the thing. It's not just the number of pallets. It's the number of pallets that completely invalidate most anti-loopers in the game. Blight, Nuse, Spirit, Huntress, and oddly enough, Trickster won't have that much trouble, but most killers will. Why? Because survivors can just predrop the pallets, and the loop is so huge, that there's no possible way to get them after the fact. Because of this, most pallets have to be kicked and not played around. You know why old Clown sucked? It's because that was his counter. Survivors can literally predrop pallets, and give you long enough chases to get the gens done. That's what a huge chunk of killers on the map have to go through.
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Change her terror radius back to its original value so that she's not dependent on both Whispers AND Monitor.
Increase the duration of her dash so that she can play slightly bigger loops. As it is now, it is completely possible for a Pig player to outplay a survivor, and still not reach them. That's dumb.
That's it. That's all she needs to be good. Her problem is that 2/3rds or her kit aren't functional.
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I don't think he's going to be garbage. I think what we're going to find is that a lot of the changes were not particularly well thought out by BHVR. What makes Freddy strong is his teleport. That's unchanged. His other powers are just ok. Freddy's snares only deliver hits on survivors that don't understand that predropping pallets is its counter. Otherwise, it only serves as a threat to never loop a Freddy. In this sense, the nerfs don't change the "braindead" (because apparently killers are required to have 3X as much skill to anti-loop apparently) way to counter loops. You go to the pallet if they don't predrop it, you place the snares on either side to get the guaranteed hit. It'll play the exact same way. Survivors will predrop, or abandon the tile. The thing that will hurt is the dream pallet nerf. Like..........why? Why'd you have to nerf the fun Freddy BHVR? I only played a couple of matches with Freddy, and that's clearly my prefered way to play him.
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Killers that only have chase powers. If they have a power that A. Lets them move quickly B. Have a power that gets survivors to stop what they're doing, ruin shows its value. Or, rather, ruin undying does. For any other killer, ruin pop is one of the ways to go so early and mid-late game regression has its basis covered. Ruin by itself is terrible on killers like Huntress, Deathslinger, Trickster, and the like. Ruin is definitely not worth it on killers that require setup. Other than that, corrupt pop is an option.
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D TIER
Trapper, Plague, Myers, and Pig in that order. Trapper doesn't need an explanation, and neither does Myers. I downgrade Plague because her power is completely in the survivor's hands to choose the convenient demerit to face against. She has potential to be better than Myers, but Myers has better consistency and arguably better perk synergy. He's still bad because he has to jump throug more hoops to ge ta mediocre power than any other killer in the game (yes, including Trickster ever since his buff). His perk synergy carries him though. Pig is a jack of all trades that's mediocre in in 2 out of 3 elements of her kit. Her traps are good. The only argument is "muh RNG" and those people unironically run ruin. The problem is Stealth slows Pig, requiring 2 perks (monitor and Whispers) to be functional, and her dash requires her to win a potential of 2 50/50 mindgames to be useful. Mindgame 1. Do they stay at the loop? Mindgame 2. Can I fake the direction or double fake? And some loops are simply too big for it to be used effectively.
C TIER (the ok against casual squads killers that could use some further tweaks or a rework that change up the style a bit).
Ghostface. Don't get me wrong, he's decent, but he's just a normal speed stealth M1 killer with possible surprise one-hits. His crouch is useful, but not amazing. All this, and his cooldown is awful. Legion is next. His slowdown and information is extremely useful. He also gets the first hits on survivors easier than any other killer, and if survivors decide to not heal, he's just a perma insta-down killer. Info perks are not as necessary, so you can stack up on slowdown and chase perks. He's surprisingly effective. Trickster. He's much better now. That aim speed and movement speed is really helpful for poking down survivors or forcing survivors to either not drop the pallets, or nearly fill up laceration while doing so, and main event not being punishing fixes a lot of issues. It's a strong burst of damage that can also be a huge altruism or out positioned punisher. This is even better with Monitor causing him to be psuedo-stealth. Of course, he's 110%, so when he comes across shack and LT walls, he struggles because his power is not the best there.
B TIER (not separated into + and -).
First is Letherface. Yes, he crushes pallets and is great for insta-downing out positioned survivors, and punishing altruism, but windows are a weakness that needs to be addressed with bamboozle, and he is, at the end of the day, a killer with no mobility or slowdown. Huntress and Clown take up the next spot. So. Clown is really underrated. He actually is really good in chase. On just about any loop, if the survivor does not pre-dropped, they are getting hit if 2 purples or a purple and yellow is used. Even with predropping, he can still get hits with the yellow bottle if it's not a big safe loop. Of course, there's the reload buff they give him which helps massively enabling these kinds of plays. Next above them is Deathslinger. Great chase potential alongside stealth with Monitor. The first hit will happen regardless of the loop as long as he can aim, and he does a great job with the second hit. You'll notice that there's a common theme. Good in chase, no map mobility or secondary way to influence the match. However next is Doctor. He does have good chasing with shocks, and he has detection and minor slowdown. This being said, his secondary benefits are really good, but not THAT good, so B-tier for him. Wraith is next. Getting purple windstorm at base is massive as it frees up his other add-on slots, my personal favorites being bone clapper and ghost for better ambushing. He's the inverse of everyone on the list. Bad chasing, but great mobility, and hit and run tactics are very effective. That being said, bring Franklins if there's a lot of medkits.
A TIER
Freddy. He belongs in the bottom, though he's still great. So, he's basically the first iteration of clown with high mobility mid-late game thanks to his teleport. Nothing else to say. Pyramid head is next. So, he's oppressive in chase, and has little else, though the cage does have high-utility options. However, having the consequence of removing the sword from the ground makes him weaker than he was, so he is no where near as high up. Demogorgon. Why is he this far up you ask? Well, his mobility is going to be significantly buffed, and he has much of Pyramid Head's zoning potential (more situational though). This, and his new add-ons are actually good this time. Next is Billy then a tie between Oni and Twins. Some swear by Billy, but no, he has problems. Yes, Billy can be all over the map from the start, but is that worthy of putting him above Oni and Twins? Yes, they get a start up though M1's, leaving them vulnerable to survivors playing safe, but how different is that from Billy? His chainsaw isn't going to become useful for downing unless a survivor is more vulnerable than what is required for an M1. Sure, he can mindgame loops, but there are 4 outcomes that's a 50/50 of rewards or severe punishment. Billy charges the chainsaw at the pallet and gets rid of it quickly. The survivor greeds the pallet when Billy's charging, getting another loop. Billy fakes it, and gets a curve or an M1 when the survivor greeds. He fakes, it, but the survivor doesn't greed the loop, so he played as a basic M1 killer. Also, his add-ons are almost exclusively memes and don't help him functionally. I don't see how the setup of Oni and Twins make them below him. Also, Hag is top of A.
S Tier. Spirit, Blight, Nurse. If we're going by consistency, Nurse, Spirit, Blight. Why the distinction of consistency? Because Nurse is bugged to hades with chase-loosing bugs and some maps are just outright terrible for her. Hawkings and Lery's are borderline unplayable unless you happen to be using double recharge. Blight may have chase-loosing bugs, but you can learn the bugged collision. You can't teach yourself to avoid Nurse's bugs. They're random. That being said, with her best add-ons (the most expensive of which is simply a purple), she is the strongest killer in the game.
The reason why Blight is above Spirit is because he can get hits the majority of places Spirit can, and he controls the map far better to the point to where there's no comparison. Unless there's a tile that's literally surrounded by nothing, Blight can get you by winning a single double back midgame on loops if he takes control of the pallet. Pre-dropping is not a great option either since he'll just get back his power 2 seconds after breaking it, and can usually catch up. In order to beat a Blight, he has to screw up, or you have to outthink him. Even on his bad maps, he's still a 115% killer with incredible mobility. And while Spirit can get hit in more loops than him and easier at that, that's not worth the map mobility trade-off.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2124091#Comment_2124091
Actually, there is. The Nurse is by dictionary definition completely, utterly op to the point where she doesn't play DBD, she plays The Nurse: The Game. However a lot of people (not all, a lot) are more okay with Nurse than other killers due to the rarity of actually good Nurse players and the skill it takes to get there. Comparatively more skill than Spirit will ever take in her life.
No, not really. She ignores loops and has good (but not overwhelmingly good without certain add-ons) mobility. The result, when the best Nurse players play against the best survivor players, the results match up what you'd expect out of a balanced game. She's oppressive in chases when played perfectly and not having 5 blink bugs in a row (thanks BHVR, that legit makes me not to want to play Nurse again after getting Hawkings, Lery's, Hawkings), which is not the same as being overpowered. Overpowered means that amongst parties of equal skill, one side has something that gives a huge advantage in influencing the match results. Nurse has disproportionate say in how chases go and slightly above average influence in how the macro goes through blink mobility. Survivors still disproportionately determine that macro of a match. The result is what a truly balanced experience looks like. A lot of survivor teams win simply because they dominate the macro of DBD and the mincro (chases) is only slightly in the killer's favor, if that.
Also, on the subject of "playing DBD." Aside from that silly perspective that a survivor has to be able to loop a killer to be playing DBD, looping is effectively born from a collision exploit but got normalized and accepted as a game mechanic. Nurse is, technically speaking, what happens when the game is played as the developers originally intended. From a certain point of view, Nurse VS survivors is the most authentic DBD experience.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
We really need to bump it up to a faster pace than what it might be currently. Spirit is the most braindead easy killer in this game.
There isn't a single killer that truly meats the definition of overpowered. Obnoxious? Maybe. In need of a rework? Maybe.
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@BananaBlooD95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2111096#Comment_2111096
BT for camping and DS for tunneling. Those two merely slow down a killer that really want to camp/tunnel a specific survivor.
Most map are balance.
Most map have decent totem placement.
Pallet & flashlight save used to be way stronger, why can't you take 2sec and look around you for other survivor? + kIlLeR hAvE pErKs FoR tHoSe TwO tHiNgS.
Key are getting rework and End Game Collapse in it's current state was made so the game couldn't be taken hostage. Who cares for that 1 survivor that get a hatch escape 1 game out of 10? Gate spawn usually favor killer and if you have a mobility killer if there is less than 3 survivor by the time all gen are done it's easy to get a 4k.
"Most killers can't apply good pressure on big maps"
Wraith, Hillbilly, Nurse, Hag, Nightmare, Spirit, Legion, Demogorgon, Oni & Blight have good mobility.
Trapper, Doctor, Cannibal, Clown & Deathsligner are strong vs looping.
Plague either play vs injured survivor or AOE range attack.
Ghost Face can stalk & 1 hit survivor and/or free hit survivor.
Thing is you need to learn how to play these killer, they have different power, different gameplay.
At this point I'm not sure if you're just an entitle killer main or simply just a troll.
- Yes, this is a punishment for camping and tunneling. Stopping camping and tunneling entirely is pretty much impossible.
- No. Most gen spreads on maps are spread quite a bit apart and often have terribly balanced elements to them. In terms of map balance, I can immediately name, Haddonfield, the Game, The 5 badham preschool maps, most corn maps, and red forest maps (purgation being the lesser offender, and Ormond. That's a lot of bad maps for killer, and those are just the clear examples.
- Lol nope. For starters, there's no logic implemented in the spawns. They can always be spawned near a survivor.
- Ah yes, "key nerfs coming soon." Doesn't matter because it's been months since they nerfed moris into the ground, keys remain the same, and now survivors freely bring them frequently because they know killers have lost their nuclear option in response. We don't even know what the nerfs are going to be. It could be pathetic relative to the mori nerfs for all we know. End game collapse only partially stops holding the game hostage. Nothing is stopping survivors from being little turds and playing immersed when only 2 are left and simply tapping gens.
- Hag is a 3-genner. Legion doesn't have good mobility, just average overall. You're misinformed. Nurse and Spirit is only with add-ons. Effectively, they do have great map mobility, but it needs to be said that, otherwise, their map pressure on big maps isn't much better than a 115% killer. Demogorgon has to set up the portals in the first place, so it's semi map mobility. Oni only occasionally has access to mobility, and using it for mobility is a huge gamble.
- I wouldn't go as far as the guy as your replying to, because survivor's ease of play depends on the team. However, it really sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about but are trying to put yourself on a pedestal. It's well known that the majority of killers in this game are not viable for the highest level play. It really says something when the 2 viable comp killers are the ones that ignore the core mechanics of the game in some way or another (Nurse and Spirit). This talk of different playstyles does not matter, because if a killer does not have a way to get survivors off of gens, then the survivors win by default if they know where to hold M1 and how to not botch the saves. This is why killers whose only power is chase-oriented, but isn't oppressive at it, will never be high-tiers under any circumstances.
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Depends on the killer, but the serious answer for me myself is don't play immersed. Seriously. It's actually boring because it turns the game into a walking simulator. Looping strong structures is A-ok. I mean, that's expected. I really don't see people complaining about looping so IDK. I hate it when someone unhooks a survivor, and then hides, leaving only the person that was on hook out in the open. It's like, come on. You've left the A-hole choice as my only option, especially if I have no info where the rest of your team is. One thing I find annoying, but is more so a balance issue rather than survivor behavior is how survivors holding M1 at the right gens has more impact on matches than chases. Like, you'd think the game would be balanced around a degree of time efficiency on how well survivors can loop the killer, but it's really not.
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@mouse0270 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2109724#Comment_2109724
I didn't state this in my original post because it wasn't really needed. I mostly play killer. So a lot of this is based of my little time playing DBD as survivor with friends. Its the main reason I took the time to make opinion not only all caps but bold too.
I don't really use addons in a meaningful way on any killer, so addon reworks will always be left out of my opinions. Also Hag is top 5? Since when? I've been playing this game since 2017 (I think). Thats the last time I remember her holding that high of a spot.
But on to your major points. I don't play blight a lot as a killer but even when I do, I can see why j-flick is annoying... its because it isn't telegraphed. Its not something a survivor can know if the killer is going to do or not. It really depends on if the killer has a super high DPI like myself. I actually didn't know j-flicking was a thing until someone called me out on it... Its not something I did on purpose, I just happen to play at a very high DPI, 4600 to be specific. Also, j-flicking is something the devs said they are going to attempt to fix. So it really is invalid of an argument for anything because its a known bug and unintended game feature.
But besides a bug, I never really hear anyone complain about blight, they complain about people abusing a bug. Fake phasing on spirit isn't a bug, its just a "feature" people use that gives survivors ZERO feedback on what she is doing. It takes exactly ZERO skill to use and forces the survivor to guess. Everytime people complain about spirit, its her lack of feedback she gives survivors in chase. It allows her to zone survivors with no skill. Its all guess work on the survivors side.
As for your nurse arguments, like again, my views are based on my own opinions and those who we play with. We love playing against good and bad nurse's. Its boring to play against a god tier nurse, but those are so rare its almost not worth mentioning. We all depise playing against the following killers:
- Spirit: Because most run stridor and pop and there is nothing we can do but guess at what she is doing
- Slinger: Because at any point in a chase he can choose to end it, so we either have to always be weaving which lets him catch up ground quickly or hope he never chooses to fire in a split second notice. Huntress has a windup time and a sound alert, slinger has a split second windup and no sound alert... Thats our issue with him.
- Triangle head: Can fake his power for barely a slow down forcing you to fake a window or pallet and the go straight into a M1 swing, so it feels like you're taking a hit either way.
All of these killers suffer from the same problem, survivors, at least the ones I play with, feel like they have no choice. And that makes it boring, it doesn't feel like the killer won and I lost, it feels like the killer got something for free, unearned.
But really these are just my opinions and why I feel like these type of killer designs are boring.
First F*ck me, apparently editing my post has somehow deleted it.
Hag is consistently considered a strong killer. I've not seen a whole lot of people change their minds on this. I've also just about not seen anyone think that Billy is better than Hag aside from people that just hate Hag's playstyle. Also, to an extent, it's expected that addons are to be used on killers. Otherwise, Nurse is not a high-mobility killer.
Rushes are telegraphed. Saying that the J-flicks aren't telegraphed is like saying Hatchets aren't telegraphed. Also, to an extent, telegraphing too much just makes killers unviable as it just boils down to a reaction game from a survivor, which is a fancy way to saying survivors don't have counterplay under those circumstances. J-flicking being unintended is irrelevant. The core gameplay of DBD is unintended. Hugging loops was not intended, and simply a result of BHVR being weird with collision. Comms was definitely not intended. Billy curves are also clearly not intended. One of the developers indicating that he wants to remove it is not a final statement on what's going to happen. Opinions can changed, and until there's an official patch, it means nothing. Calling it abusing a glitch is also not accurate. BHVR just have failed tomake an actual cap. It's like if COD had a 200 RPM cap on a semi-auto, but if you could spam click at 500 RPM, it allows you to fire the gun at that rate. That's not triggering a glitch, BHVR just don't have a real cap on Blight's turn rate because of sloppy code. Regardless, it has nothing to do with my argument, because the reason why it's hated is because "It has no counterplay." The point being is survivors do not care if something requires skill or not.
So the last half of your post isn't really a counter to what I'm saying. I'll bet these elements are annoying, but what you'll notice is that all these killers are all top-tiers in chases, which is my point. Maybe you and your friends do find what you listed as annoying, but my point is, if you're looking closely at comments or forum posts, most survivors basically just hate Spirit's viability. They don't just have a problem with the power fakes. They have a problem with Spirit being able to conceal her movements, which is the only reason why the power is good. Even if the shards work better and telegraph her phasing and eliminate the stand-still mindgame, that'll be a footnote just like collision was. Spirit will always be complained about until she's not a strong killer. That being said, I do understand that there are things about her that can be annoying regardless, so she could use a rework.
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Infectious is the standard snowball perk. If you're having issues with immersed survivors, try Whispers and look at one of the guides on how it's used. It's great for sniffing them out. As for gens, corrupt pop might be the way to go. Some use ruin undying. Not sure if that's great on her. It's not like she exactly pushes survivors outside of gens outside of corrupt purge.
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@mouse0270 said:
Most people who play this game will say the top 3 dogs are, Nurse, Spirit and Billy. However most people complain about Spirit and not the other two. In my OPINION, its because I have indicators for what Nurse and Billy are doing that allow me to REACT to what the killer is doing. This means when I lose a chase to this killer, I don't feel like it was luck, They either outplayed me, or I screwed up.
- Nurse makes both a noise and plays an animation to display that she is about to blink.
- Billy makes a noise and plays an animation when he revs up his chainsaw.
- Spirit Stands still when she is and isn't phasing. There is no indication she is using her power, its a toss up if I should vault the pallet, run away from the loop, or stand still. I as the survivor have no way to outplay that, its literally lucky guessing.
I've rarely had anyone ever complain to me about spirit after my games, but I don't run stridor or pop and I never fake phase. I never stand still as spirit. I am always on the move. Meaning as long as the survivor doesn't assume I am fake phasing they can always react. When I my spirit is standing still, I am phasing. The ######### thing is, survivors don't know that, so they get annoyed because fake phasing is such a large thing spirits do, that a lot of survivors assume everyone does it.
- No, that's how it used to be. People would now say it's either Blight or Hag at the no.3 spot. Billy hasn't been top 5 since his add-ons were gutted by BHVR.
- I disagree with half of your premise. Most apparently didn't complain about Billy, but looking back, there have 100% people complaining about Nurse (not just her busted old add-ons, her base kit). I think people are pretending they respect the skill behind Nurse as a weapon to bludgeon Spirit players. I think the real reason that people don't complain about Nurse is because A. Nurse is not only not as common of a killer, but most can't use her effectively, meaning facing good Nurses are rare. Notice how complaints are starting to happen against Blight now? Some are complaining about his base kit, but the hot topic is the J-flick. It is 100% something that requires skill, and he does telegraph his rushes, but survivors hate it because it's viewed as something that can't be countered (some Blight mains do say all you have to do is go away from a loop making it a 50/50 mind game but IDK). Survivors do not care if something is telegraphed (unless it's a zoning tool, which is where the problems with Deathslinger are) or requires skill. If something causes them to loose a chase frequently, it will be seen as an issue.
Now, her power might actually be obnoxious for survivors because of the reasons you brought up as well. However, I think if Spirit was actually terrible, these complaints wouldn't be appearing as much.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2109117#Comment_2109117
tunneling is exactly the ######### same before DS change.
stop pretending it's more common.
It might be more common since non-obsession lobbies are more common, but that's a survivor problem. If the instant a supposed anti-tunnel perk isn't attractive to you, and you end up tunneled, you have no one but yourself to blame. It's indirectly admitting that all DS ever was to most survivors was an extra hook state.
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@Tsulan said:
Well they nerfed DS. So now to compensate survivors for this inconvenience, they buff a ton of survivor stuff and nerf killers.
Makes sense, doesn't it?
Absolutely not, that makes no sense. The DS nerf followed the ruin undying nerf (which wasn't an issue as long as DS BTW). There's no compensation to give. Killers don't get to slow survivors to a crawl forever, survivors don't get to slow killer progress to a crawl. Survivors aren't owed for having their meta nerfed after the killer meta is nerfed. That's absolutely insane entitlement.
That being said, the changes to the killers aren't overall bad. Demo does absolutely have better add-ons now and better base performance. The nerfs to most of his commons is dumb, but yeah.
Huntress only really got a nerf to a specific add-on combination, and has most of the utility she had with her old add-ons, but more options in other areas.
I think Dowsey covered Twins and said it's missed attack cooldown. That's whatever. The alarm bell came in when the notes simply said cooldown.
Freddy is nerfed in some ways that's counterintuitive. They said they added slowing to snare placement to incentivize tactical use of them, but then they nerf the amount he has, which discourages placing them in spots ahead of time. Seemingly, the slowdown isn't enough to stop Freddy from controlling a pallet and placing down 1 snare at each side of a loop, so good job, Freddy's playstyle hasn't changed at all and might not even have a negative impact on his performance. Also, dream pallets nerf #########.
Overall, the changes to the killers aren't terrible even though there's some notably ######### moments. The fact that only Zanshin has been looked at, is annoying however. I'm guessing their reasoning is that the object change is for killers? If that's the case, then why weren't there more perk buffs for killer when Undying was reworked?
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/241994/was-the-twins-change-really-necessary
This is a fair change to successful pounce cooldown when putting someone in dying state.
Your post also ignores the other positive changes they’re receiving AND the long list of positive changes they have received since release.
Um, they buffed their slugging without buffing their otherwise F-tier chase potential. It's fine to nerf the slugging if it's in conjunction with removing hostage Victor to make other gameplay styles viable. Because they aren't, this not only makes Twins an unfun killer to play for the majority of killer players, but also an unviable unfun killer. The other positives were slight add-on buffs and a quality of life change that's likely not impacting gameplay all that much.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/242003/so-no-further-blight-improvements
Weird. I have yet to really have collision issues. Other then occasionally getting sucked in at certain spots.
They still exist albeit different. Shacks for some reason are harder to collide on, and Ormond snow is still impossible to bounce off of. Car bounces are wonky. They still need to do some work. It's not terrible right now, but Blight is far from consistent or fixed. It still requires Huntress levels of map knowledge on understanding the buggy collision.
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@indieeden7 said:
Most likely to encourage players to use Victor for the first hit, rather than the second. Although using Victor for downs was the most efficient way of playing Twins, Victor has the same problem as killers like Demo or Deathslinger, he can just hold his attack to zone people, which players simply don't see as very fun. IMO, they need to look into bigger changes for the twins, the concept of their power is really good however they rely too much on tactics that are generally recognised as unfun.
They're not encouraging, they're punishing the alternative, and the reason why the few people who play twins choose the alternative is because Victor being the first hit is objectively terrible. You can't see the aura of Victor right away, so the Twins can't capitalize off of oblivious, and altogether, Victor has an effective cooldown that would make Ghostface blush, and this is without add-ons to lower it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099264#Comment_2099264
Achievements can be changed if they are no longer possible to do.
Gameplay is incomparably more important than achievements.
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Alright. Things I will comment on are things I take issue with, and presumably, I am fine with the rest.
- Why are dream pallets being nerfed? Do people seriously complain about them? I've been under the impression that they're a meme add-on more than anything.
- This is not mentioned, but I think we all know it's coming. Exhaustion add ons should not be removed. These are "modern standards" that are wrong. Exhaustion perks aside from Head On don't have counterplay in the first place, so why is it that some killers using an add-on slot to counter them an issue?
- The buffs on Demo look good. It doesn't solve the reliance on rat liver, though I suppose that's not a huge issue as a common add-on. What I would have liked to have been changed is the fact that survivors have more control over Demo's portals than he does since they can choose to destroy or leave them, but he can't. It'd be like if Trapper had to commit to a trap spot and could only pick up disarmed traps. That's my biggest problem with Demo, since it basically stifled creative portal placement, and you're naturally going to want to put 2 at crossroads to generators every time.
- Who boy! Twins. Let me preface this. I am not interested in how Twins play ever since PTB and have not gotten them. They're trash if you play them like a normal killer, and only become strong in 4-man slugging (the reason why I don't like them, because it'll turn the game into a slog for both sides). However, I see this as a massive nerf to their playstyle. So, one of the reasons why survivors hate Twins is being addressed, but you're also taking away the only reason to play Twins. There needs to be a draw to using them other than their add-on pass and the camera change if you want them to be played at all. If chaining downs on injured survivors is nerfed, the 1v1 needs a huge buff. It's fairly simple. A. Make the transition between Victor to Charlotte faster to make them feel more fluid and adaptable. B. Remove the timer on recalling Victor and make the recall available at any time. This timer is the reason why they're not good outside of slugging. They effectively have a 36 second cooldown on their power, and Victor is no where near oppressive enough to justify these numbers. Once again, survivors should never have more control over the killer's power than they do themselves. The risk that a survivor will prevent you from using your power for a long time in exchange for being unable to heal or work on gens is not interesting gameplay. It's incredibly boring.
- Is this action speed increase for OoO only during the aura reveal, or just there all the time. If the later, that's a problem. Gens go by too quickly relative to chase time as is. This is partially because of exhaustion perks extending chases on killers with lower mobility and some inherit problems like how much time hooking eats up (the reason why slugging is used). There shouldn't be perks to speed up gens, especially by a continuous rate. As of now, holding M1 is more impactful on matches rather than the relative chase skill of survivor VS killer.
- Why is Zanshin the only killer perk that's been looked at? There are plenty of killer perks that are in serious needs of buffs or reworks, many of them can be solved with simple number fixes. Blood Favor is bad because its range is so small, that the counter to blood favor is simply optimal survivor gameplay by using the on-hit speedboost to get to the next loop. For blood favor to be even remotely acceptable as a hex perk (particularly with a cooldown), it needs to have a range and duration to seal off pallets that survivors would reach with their speed boost. Maybe 32m for 30 seconds. Even that might not work because a survivor will have about a 16m distance after the wiping animation is done for killer, and it'll take around 20 seconds to catch up to survivors post wipe. Dragon's grip should have its cooldown linked to the activation time and/or exposed status like, you know, make your choice. Trail of Torment shouldn't have a cooldown. Oppression should have a 40 second cooldown. ect.....
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2091659#Comment_2091659
and why is it unreasonable for killers to be slightly OP?
killers are essentially bosses, obstacles to survivors
- Sluzzy is clearly a troll. Don't feed them.
- On the actual argument, being OP is just bad for balance and an enjoyable gameplay experience, which is bad for the game. On the flip side, there is no such thing as an OP killer in this game if we're talking about their ability to win a match rather than focusing completely on chase mechanics.
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The instant 50/50s were labeled as not "legitimate counterplay" is the instant this thread delegitimized itself. It's effectively admitting that you're crying about being bad. You basically just admitted evidence of couterplay as evidence that counterplay doesn't exist. The mechanics of DBD is all about 50/50s or a series of 50/50s. The only time this is not the case is when the gameplay has a power that always works in a scenario, or safe/god loops where the survivor can't be hit with the kit that a killer has. This immediately sounds like you want simply knowing how tiles work to be a 100% guaranteed win in a chase, which is the definition of killers having no counterplay to survivor. Do you complain when a killer does a red-light mindgame or Ghostface hides his? It's the same thing.
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You kind of answered your own question with the first sentence. The reason why survivor ends up as a priority (don't dispute this, look at who's prioritized with bug fixes or how an oppressive killer meta get nerfed way quicker than an oppressive survivor meta), is because they need more survivor players than killers. It comes down to the issue of an asymmetrical game. The killer side has one guy who's his entire team. He has total agency on his performance outside of how well the actions stack up to the enemy team. The survivor side, on the other hand, is cooperative in nature, which leads to frustration when someone else throws the game for the team, leading to good plays amounting to nothing. Even though it's completely logical and balanced, it doesn't feel good. This is why people complain about solos. So BHVR probably feels the need to make survivors feel individually impactful just enough to keep survivor an attractive option even if that design becomes utterly broken against the killers if there's 4 competent survivors together. BHVR probably want killers to eat that occasional displeasure rather than risk driving many survivors away.
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@[Deleted User] said:
She needs a huge nerf to her addons. Something like Nurse had. It's absurd that a killer with such a strong basekit has also the best addons out of any killer (yeah, and I'm even putting Iri Head and Tombstone in this). Even brown addons make her so much stronger than what she needs to be, and don't even get me started on MDR+Yakuyoke.
Her basekit is mostly fine. Her speed, duration, activation and recharge are actually fairly balanced imo as she needs to manage it well for both map traversal and chasing. Everything her basekit needs is a phasing animation, so she can't stand still to "mindgame" you.
Technically, she has a tell in the form of her shards lighting up, but it's hard to notice, so the obvious fix is to make them a bit brighter. This all being said, BHVR might as well not go down this road because the goal posts will be moved again. Even if all Spirit had to work with was grass and footsteps, people would complain about her. BHVR should either rework her in such a way that she maintains her current strength, but in through different means (like say better map pressure but a retooled anti-loop).
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Not to mention it's still a strong endgame perk. If you were the last one on the hook, and your rescuer was at full health, it's a free escape most times. That aspect hasn't changed. It also means that your farm proof.
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- Glitch from the survivor's perspective only.
- Not banable even if it was. It's less of a cheat than stretch res which isn't exactly getting waves of bans. This is if you could even classify something that just shows you where the center of your screen is as a cheat. Also, many monitors (pretty much any marketed as a gaming monitor) have that as a default feature, and that's never getting detected.
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@notlonely said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2075054#Comment_2075054
If that's so insanely unfair and gives such a big advantage why won't they simply fix that glitch then?
They for whatever reason can only nerf the glitch and not remove it. Ironically, shortly after Alf's video on it. Thanks Alf. Your community service is appreciated. Also, it doesn't matter, because all the fatigue cancel did was allow you to not be forced to look down, but you can unironically make yourself look up as Nurse just by moving your mouse up (I'm noticing a trend with BHVR not properly implementing restrictions to mouse movements from Nurse and Blight).
Also, remove the M1 bug and blink cancel bug soon BHVR so there aren't bugs that are advantage to either side regarding Nurse, thank you.
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So you want everyone in the community to have a negative reputation attached to their name because of salt?
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This patch isn't killing DBD. Let's not blow this out of proportion. They made a bad DLC, that's it. They also made 3 highly desired balancing changes this patch. No one's leaving the game unless they were already sick of it when, as a whole, this patch improved the game.
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@AssassinZodiac said:
I'm not sure yet on the viability of trickster in red ranks. I can say though, for me he is the most unfun killer in the game. He feels like a chore to play as. His kit is very clunky to use. I haven't seen a situation yet as playing him where getting 8 hits with my knives is more time effective than just hitting them with my bat.
When Twins came out I was struggling to get kills for a good while after starting playing as them, but they were a lot of fun to play as. Running around and flying through the air as Victor still makes me laugh. Trickster right now has no redeeming qualities in my eyes. Time will tell whether this remains the issue with him or not.
As a rank 1 killer that faced many all rank 1 survivor squads, he's terrible. Now, I have not fully leveled him, and his perk selection isn't great right now, but even with similarly suboptimal builds, I haven't struggled nearly as much with killers like Ghostface and Legion as Trickster. Bear in mind, Whenever there's clear line of sight, I'm hitting most of my shots, so it's not a failure in executing his power. He simply takes too long to down survivors.
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Use ruin undying Haunted on stealth or anti-loop killers that attack with M1 if it becomes a problem. I love that build so much because you're actively baiting the survivors to go for totems with ruin. At that point, Detective users, map users, and small game users are potentially hurting their team. You'll get a lot of Devour's utility out of it.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072344#Comment_2072344
The problem is that just ends up making it Devour in a slightly different form, that's only valid at end game. May as well run Devour instead.
There's a difference between the 2. Devour is just instadown with a potential mori. NOED is instadown with a speedup, making loops less safe. They'd each have their place.
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Yes and no. The effect isn't problematic itself. The problem lies in that a killer that is failing the entire match can get a potentially free kill once it's used, and so many bad killers use NOED. There's a difference between a killer potentially getting a 4k with NOED after getting 8 hooks VS a killer never winning a single chase, but get one person at the end because of NOED. I think the solution to this is adding a hook requirement to make NOED earnable so it's less of a second chance as much as a last push type of perk. Though maybe in that circumstance, it shouldn't be a hex. I dunno.
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@Phasmamain said:
Trying to stay on topic here but how exactly would they even play test a killer?
RNG players such a big part in a match’s outcome that getting consistent results with any killer is difficult.
Get survivors at various titles. Have the killer chase them, and see the average chase time, and analyze if there actually is something the killer can do in a given scenario. After the testing, tally up if the ability is actually useful overall. Since Trickster's power is very niche and only potentially time efficient out in the open and at short loops, leaving the majority of notable structures in the game making his power a massive timesink, and therefore, useless, and the fact that he's 4.4 leaving him with no fallback option in his mele, the devs almost certainly did not use the method I described. The company probably doesn't use playtesting. And no, that's not me being sarcastic or "insulting" mods. I genuinely don't think your company makes use of playtesting outside of PTB, which clearly has stopped being put into consideration since Twins. If the players of the PTB are the playtesters, then it was, from our perspective, not utilized, because everything negative PTB players have said about Trickster has come true on the live servers, resulting in a product that, from a gameplay standpoint, is almost unanimously agreed to be a bad one. It's in your best interest to take the criticism, change the Trickster ASAP so that there's the possibility that you get anything out of this chapter other than the initial burst of sales, because no one is buying Trickster with money other than aesthetic reasons or people just wanting the survivor and were willing to eat the cost of less value compared to previous chapters.
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@TheWarNung said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/239144/youre-probably-playing-trickster-wrong
OMG, I totally want to see a throwdown between shirtless David and Trickster now.
I haven't bought the chapter yet, because the only killers I straight up never play are the ranged attackers (Huntress, Slinger, and now Trickster). I still enjoy playing against them though, and I figure if Trickster doesn't vanish into obscurity people will be figuring out how to use him.
I'm also weirded out that so many people on these forums are enraged by this chapter for the exclusive reason that the killer is weak. IMO it's okay for BHVR to not make every killer S tier. Especially coming off the heels of PH, Blight, and Twins, I'm absolutely fine with being given a killer who's weaker than the average. He still seems fun to me, even if I won't be playing him.
Nobody's demanding an S-rank killer. Huntress and Deathslinger aren't S-rank, and he's a straight downgrade from either. "The way to play Trickster" in this discussion is actively hindered by his base stats. It actively makes him a terrible killer. The first version of Clown, and current Trapper are arguably better than him. He's that bad.
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@Brokenbones said:
It's not a tech, it's an exploit.
Here's a spicy opinion. Techs are exploits that raise the skill ceiling. If you get very technical, that's how techs work in games other than DBD.
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It's probably the new chapter. I think it brings out all the sweats and toxics. Ever notice that the same thing happens at the beginning of rank reset? On the killer end, I've had many, many premades with nothing but rank 1s and meta builds, sometimes with a favorable map offering for good measure because they want that extra advantage. Though in my experience, it's not so much toxic as much as sweat. Last rank reset was legitimately toxic. Give it a week.
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Define tunneling. More and more, I've noticed that the how the survivors use the term has broadened beyond the actual behavior people found annoying. Are you talking about immediately chasing a survivor off of the hook even when the unhooker is there to take agro, or are you talking about the killer chasing an injured survivor a little bit of time after the hook because the survivor decided to rush his objective instead of getting healed first? The former is not impacted at all. The only way it could is if a bunch of idiots on the killer side saw "DS Nerf" and didn't read the patch notes showing that DS still very much punishes their play style. The latter isn't tunneling.
The only killers that aren't impacted are the ones whom didn't tunnel, but aggressive survivors decided to hook bomb with an active DS and BT.
@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2063661#Comment_2063661
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2063682#Comment_2063682
I dont like to play killer and I worry a little for those who truly love ,,,I mean LOVE playing killer lol. Some of you killer mains love it so much you keep slashing players on the hook after they are dead??? Also, I find killer mains are the biggest babies who cry when they dont win 50 out of 50 games. I make the argument that killers win way to much,,,I have yet to see these longggggg string of swf victories that they keep complaining about.
Way to completely misrepresent killer mains. Kind of toxic and ignorant.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2065069#Comment_2065069
Yes if you run corrupt and the survivors hide for 2 mins and during that time you find no one. Then no you didn’t get any value out of corrupt at all. But the difference is how often does that happen, not even 1% of the time.
I disagree. If they're hiding, they're not doing gens, and corrupt has prevented the gens from being completed before I find the first survivor. This increases the odds that I get into a chase at about the same time as gen progress begins, whereas it would have happened before. The result is value by warding off the worst case scenario, but it's less value than ideal.