MarcoPoloYolo
MarcoPoloYolo
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@bm33 said:
Removing tools racists use to amplify their hate is a good thing and a win. What is bad and a loss is people directing their anger towards BHVR and the victims of the harassment instead of at the racists.
The "tools that racists use" in this case is content that non-racist players may enjoy, so no, that's not an objective win. At best, it's a net neutral. An action taken at the expense of some for the sake of innocent parties is not a win. You all talk as if the sole reason these cosmetics exist is for racism. It clearly doesn't, so we're going into the rabbit hole of "something can be abused, remove said thing regardless of its merits." That argument has no merit.
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@Phasmamain said:
Removing a method to be racist is still a good thing though
Hammers can be used for assault. Bans hammers. "We removed a method of assault guys, this is a logical train of thought."
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The issue isn't the concept of a boon totem. The problem is that infinite medkits is every bit as powerful as a hex perk, but boons lack the downsides of a hex perk. Basically COH is just blatantly overpowered. You really could consider it similar to a ruin that can't be cleansed, as both perks are designed to undo the damage one side can do to the other.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734054#Comment_2734054
Tired of explaining this.
Watch this instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE7RZv_dhC0
Don't care. Not outsourcing the discussion. Is it blackface? No. It's all about personal experience, which is nebulous and malleable.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733995#Comment_2733995
You're missing the key part of this whole ordeal, in which the SF cosmetic bore a resemblance to blackface. That is why it was used offensively and is being removed.
Other in-game cosmetics DON'T share this link and so have ZERO reason to be removed. What you're suggesting is nonsensical.
What "vague offensive connection" are they going to make from Neon Legion, Santa Clown, Elf Dwight etc. that could possibly warrant their removal?
You lack imagination. I already have one in my head that could qualify (lady Bubba) I don't think it'd be difficult to think of others. This entire discussion isn't about what's reasonable. It's not reasonable to associate Letherface's Claudette mask when it does not share the context of blackface. It's all about what some people feel.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733951#Comment_2733951
How is it true?
Show me where all of these so-called trolls are getting all of the cosmetics in the game banned. Where is the proof that the removal of the LF masks is going to lead to all other cosmetic being banned?
Simply put, it isn't there. Because this argument is a fallacy.
It's a prediction. It may not happen. Twitter, for instance, could become a wholesome place. Realistically speaking, we know that won't happen.
Trolls act to get a rise out of someone or to just ruin others fun. Hopefully this isn't in dispute. BHVR has now shown that a small amount of the player base can get items banned if people make enough of a stink about it (not much). It's not going to be difficult for trolls to make some vague offensive connection from cosmetics, and for BHVR to take this sort of action. It's not a stretch to go from a cosmetic that's part of a package deal from paid content to just outright paid content. I promise you, old lady Bubba is next.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733935#Comment_2733935
Can people stop with this ridiculous slipperly slope argument?
Just because you're SAYING these things will happen, doesn't mean they actually will. It's a fallacy. Stop it.
People will stop using it when it stops becoming true.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
It removes a tool used for racist behavior.
If you had neighbors that hated you and they kept vandalizing your car overnight by throwing eggs out of the basket of eggs you keep on your front lawn, removing the basket of eggs you keep on your front lawn probably wouldn't stop it all together, but it would remove a method they use to do it. That's the point.
Limiting ways people can cause harm to others is important as well.
A more accurate analogy would be all of the neighbor's baskets being confiscated and the selling of baskets banned all because a few neighbors misbehaved. This is not reasonable behavior. It's collective punishment for individual actions all in the name of feelings.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733085#Comment_2733085
No one is pretending that removing the masks will "solve racism", it's the removal of a tool that facilitates discriminatory behavior, it's a preventive measure and it's definitely not going to put an end on racist behaviors, but it's not going to help it either.
Ban tools because you can murder with them.
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@JudyIscariot said:
Their logic has been even if the report system works quickly and efficiently 100% of the time, someone still had to experience harassment in the first place that was made possible or worse by something they can remove. Reporting is a reactive measure, this is proactive. I'll miss the masks, but I understand what they're saying.
That's a non-argument that's meant to sound reasonable when it isn't. I could use the exact same argument to ban bats.
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@DeathBeam said:
I think I'm at the point that there is competition coming (VHS), I'll just stop playing the game until actual balance changes and console optimization comes along.
And then as soon as the pressure dies off if VHS dies, it'll be back to business as usual for them.
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Set aside the political merits surrounding the decision for a second. BHVR set a very anti-consumer precedent. They've gone down the rabbit hole of establishing that they will outright remove content from a paid package. I do not care if you agree with them or not. One person's sensible reaction is another person's lunacy. BHVR displayed a lot of disregard for the general playerbase.
So what's the next step in the saga? Every time there's a twitter mob, paid skins get deleted from the game or modified? I wouldn't recommend purchasing
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@Mandy said:
I honestly feel that the word "toxicity" has lost it's meaning completely. Pretty much the only toxic thing is insults/slurs in the after game chat.
Camping/tunnelling/tbagging/flashlight clicking is not toxic...these are things in the game.
And whilst you don't believe people are banned, if you saw how many messages that moderators get, and how many posts we have to delete due to people trying to appeal or complain about their game ban publicly, you wouldn't say that. Hate speech is bannable - they are temporary bans that do not show on their profiles (referring to Steam profiles here), consoles have their own methods for dealing with hate speech, as there's no in-game chat for these platforms. We do allow a certain amount of "smack talk" which is inevitable in only games, things like "gg ez" "baby killer" "noob" "learn to play" as well as swear words are not bannable, these are part of online multiplayer games (and yes people do report these type of comments).
Toxic hasn't necessarily lost its meaning, as it's a vague term in the first place. It's really an alternate way of saying mean or unsportsmanlike. Some people have an inaccurate idea of what's mean (annoying but effective tactics). Can you agree that either side actively wasting the other side's time as much as the game's mechanics allow is inherently unsportsmanlike or, dare I say, toxic? Survivors running the timers out on the exit gate in the hopes of taunting the killer from an area of safety (doesn't just waste the killer's time either, as a survivor may be spectating to see the killer's build only to wait an unnecessary 2 minutes), or a killer running the bleed-out timer dry when the game is effectively won are the primary examples of this.
Also, it should not be controversial that flashlight macros are inherently toxic, since they exist simply to make a sound more obnoxious than typically possible, and should have been patched out years ago. You can't even argue that "it's part of the game" as you have to set something up external to the game to engage in more annoying behavior.
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Haven't unlocked all the perks for a specialized build with it yet.
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Honestly, the big problem with the survivor vs killer toxicity in DBD boils down to the fact that, as killer, you're playing as a mute. It's not like other games where there's an equal amount of expression. I think if the devs added derogatory emotes for the killer, this wouldn't be an issue.
Aside from that though, it's rather aggravating that some losers will literally hold the game hostage for as long as the timer lets them. Killers should have the option to cut endgame short and just let everyone escape immediately. If the devs insist on keeping hook suicides, then killers should also get a way to cut matches short without receiving a DC penalty.
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A killer "snuffing" a boon destroys the dull totem as well. There you go.
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Against my better judgement, I played for a bit (at least with a VPN). The match I had as her makes me believe she can be insanely good with practice. Aside from the obvious strong anti-loop (which, yes, does have counterplay now that they can't act as traps with auto-damage), you can cut down on W holding if you're good enough. Angling the crows through a LOS blocker with proper timing can net you hits over time. I failed at this for a while, but managed to pull it off.
I actually only had one match against her as survivor. Unfortunately, I got chased to a lot of areas without pallets, so most of my experience against her is holding W, but that would have been the same for any killer. When I did get to loops, I could absolutely get her to waste her time whenever I had LOS blockers. You can force her to play around the loop, then leave when she's not expecting it, or actually go through the loop if she's expecting you to leave. She really doesn't have perfect info on you. She has to look where she's setting her crows after all. Either that, or the player was bad.
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Because everything that people fun about him was removed since survivors said that they weren't having fun. If everything that makes Deathslinger Deathslinger is taken away, why would people play deathslinger unless they're using a build that requires M1s to use?
Deathslinger was also a decent killer at best. The fact that they nuked his kit so hard and giving borderline nothing in return means that his viability is more on the "it's a chore to play" side of things.
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I'm excited, but I'm not touching the game until they fix their security issue.
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It's not the result for many, it's the process. You can typically average the kills to what the devs intend, but this would either mean you stomp, you get stomped, or you only get 1K before the gens pop and camp out your last kill. What's the problem with this? It's boring. SBMM in any game funnels people into the meta, and guest what, both the survivor and killer metas are obnoxious. SBMM just puts a spotlight on everything wrong with the game, and the devs aren't exactly stepping up to fix them. Heck, if anything, they're throwing balance out the window and just letting mid-high level players just wallow.
Also, when was the last time Tofu was right about something?
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He's getting nerfed because he's stomping casuals, and for whatever the reason, the devs still insist on balancing around the casual level even though MMR should be separating them from good Pinheads in the first place showing that, there is indeed no positives to the MMR system. Anyone at the mid to high level gets shafted because BHVR would prefer that their game's playerbase be a revolving door.
What's particularly puzzling is that part of what makes his chain hunt spam possible is a glitch that they are now fixing AND they're nerfing the add-ons that increase solve time. Like, BHVR, have you even remotely considered that possibility that the reason he was "overperforming" was because of the glitch that causes chain hunt to stop survivors from stopping the chain hunt and not because +4 seconds was too much on hits own merits? Maybe, just maybe, you should have just released the bug fix, see if that changed anything, and THEN considered nuking Pinhead's add-ons into oblivion after collecting the data. Let's be real. The only addons untouched and are "in line" are the ones that do borderline nothing relative to the typical killer add-ons in this game.
"When it comes to Pinhead: IMO Engineers Fang is pretty clear. Someone who does think that this Add On does not need any Nerf is biased."
Actually no. People are not biased in saying it wasn't too much. In what universe is an Iri rewarding Pinhead's power proportionally to other anti-loops in the game, and not being able to down with it this massively overpowered thing? He gets to have the skill requirement of Nurse and be rewarded it for the first hit, and basically have the same requirement, but with Clown's power for the second. Some just take issue when a killer has an Iri that has power proportional to the bloodpoint/rarity.
"I don't think they should have nerfed anything else, however, they should have removed the interaction with Hoarder and Franklins Demise."
So you just wanted the Pinheads to run 4 slowdowns. Got it. Really, you're just complaining about every aspect of the killer. Killer has an add-on that partially rewards him proportionally to their skill requirement->bad. The killer that embodies what survivors supposedly want (weak 1v1 but strong 1v4) has perk combos that allow him to more effectively use his 1v4 power->also bad. Just be honest and say you want Pinhead to be like Pig and be outright bad at both aspects of the game. This is why you get nothing but strong 1v1 killers, and why content creators that talk about 1v1 killers being unhealthy for the game have no idea what they're talking about.
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I think it's moreso that strong anti-loop is a popular mechanic that tends to have average performance in the casual level, being less of a pain for BHVR to "balance." Killers with even remotely good 1v4 tend to get the nerf hammer hard because they stomp the casual level coughFreddycough coughPinheadcough.
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@Thrax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2643532#Comment_2643532
it isn't necessary at 4 or 5 gens. go back under the bridge, troll
Actually, it can. Who knows if you get another opportunity to win again? A killer not choosing to pursue a slug at 5 gens should be treated as magnanimous, not as something all killers must do. If you have a problem with it, use a second chance anti-slug build to carry you through your mistakes.
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Nothing, because the devs haven't taken steps to check if something impossible occurs in game, and they expect you to basically make a court case that someone cheated, which won't happen with subtle hacks.
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Yes we should, stop being a looser.
- There are survivor players that use controllers and are fine. An example of this is Cope. Killers being able to be used to their full potential is not an objective problem. Your shortcoming are not a basis to just banish the PC playerbase.
- Yeah, the frames and network has nothing to do with PC, as much as a BHVR problem. Don't whine to us about things that the devs should have fixed a while ago. Ping should just be a matter of location. This isn't magic. All this means is that BHVR's servers are stationed at areas that Apex is not.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631743#Comment_2631743
I didn't wanna title the thread PSA but I'm hoping this can serve as an ample warning to at least all forums members
Well, the reason I brought that up is because, let's be real, only a small portion of players are on the forums or reading a Eurogamer article. Many are blissfully unaware that all it takes is one lunatic to cause very real harm to them.
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This needs a full-blown PSA regarding the issue until the vulnerabilities are fixed. Any statements about BHVR caring about the community are completely hollow with anything less.
In the meantime, don't play the game until they fix this, period. Even if this was the best game ever made, it's not worth it.
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
Thanks for the heads up.
Would anyone happen to know, does this only affect pc players?
Are console players safe?
I know nothing about how console networks do things. However, consoles are effectively PCs themselves, and you're still using your modem, so no. Presumably, console is in as much danger as PC.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629381#Comment_2629381
Off-topic, but I unironically think Vader could work if treated right. Imagine the lightsaber igniting when a chase begins - or the distorted breathing when he's close.
I mean, his role was basically like the Star Wars slasher villain, so that wouldn't be out of place.
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A killer getting value from 1 of 2 perks that he brings isn't an issue.
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Everyone wants to try her, so that might be why. I got a match in myself, but then I crashed in the second lobby, and then at the start of a queue.
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As the killer or as survivor? My survivor queues were instant.
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@Aneurysm said:
Wasn't it just the ultra rares?
Nope, anything other than the purple add-ons that actually have a use got their effects halved. Yes, all of his good non-purple add-ons were HALVED!
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@Ryan489x said:
I don't think Pinhead is over performing at all. I've maybe faced him a total of 4 times since it debuted in September.
Not a lot of people are actually playing him in ranked matches so the fact that it's being said he's over performing is a lie.
It might not be a lie. He may be overperforming at the mid-level. What clearly is a lie is that they look to the top 5% of players for their performance testing "Wraith is a wee bit OP" after all. Either that, or they really do look at the top 5% of killer players, but don't make sure that they only look at data where they verse the top 5% of survivors.
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Pinhead's nerf is a giant question mark. I mean, sure, I get the nerf to Engineer fang. I think it didn't need changing, but I know why it happened (everyone complained about it). The rest was just ######### territory. "Bringing the top 5 add-ons in line." AKA bringing them in line with the other non-purple add-ons that are actual garbage, and they literally just halved all of the effects. It's actually comical. Larry's remains is now brought down to the level of the current liquified gore. New liquified gore now delays the solving by a whole second on a 6 second timer, oh what a great add-on! The only non-purple add-ons they didn't nuke are his A. Range add-ons, which only serve to interrupt the box at best. B. His Cool-down addons. C. His turn rate add-ons. So, make no mistake, what they actually meant was "any add-on that can effect Pinhead's performance in a remotely positive way gets its effects halved."
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Because he's one of the killers that has a design that is focused to one aspect of the game instead of being one of the hybrids. He is designed to be really strong in anti-looping and downing quickly, but has no map pressure. Now, contrary to narratives, survivors hate the opposite end of the spectrum as well.
I think there's a psychological element to Trickster's knife spam as well I think. Realistically speaking, you don't stand any more of a chance against a good Huntress in a loop where a good Trickster is shooting you. Many people don't realize the shots you can pull off as Huntress. My guess is that the rapid-fire gives the feeling of helplessness even though the only knife that matters is the final knife. Maybe it just boils down to Trickster being a more intuitive killer than Huntress, which would make the average Trickster more effective than the average Huntress.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
IMO the first thing which should be looked at - is it possible to do on all Platforms? If not, it should be considered an exploit and fixed. Like, anything which messes with DPI should not be in the game because it is unavailable for console players. And this already shows that it is not intended.
For the rest, I dont really know what those techs mean, I probably know what the Blight player is doing in those scenarios, but I dont know which name describes which tech. But I feel if all of those would be removed, Blight would still be an S-Tier Killer, since he still has that insane mobility and can do some stuff at Loops.
Bringing up Nurse is a weak argument IMO, just because a design failure exists and will never be fixed, does not mean that other things should stay in the game.
The most used techs are things that are related to Blight's collision mechanics, and are the same between PC and console. Unless they changed Blight on console again, the techs that haven't been patched out are for both types of hardware.
I don't see Nurse as a design failure. If anything, she shows how broken the maximum potential for survivors are since she ignores the chase mechanics and can still loose to survivors that have a strong grasp on the game's macro decisions.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/291726/should-blight-techs-be-removed
- They were not intended so they should not exist
- Killer is unplayable without those techs
- Killer is unplayable against good survivors even with those techs
- Only 0,0001% of the killer playerbase are able to play Blight properly to win against average++ survivors
So Blight needs a complete rework, without the techs he is a pathetic M1 killer. With the techs, he is buggy but can be strong if mastered but as i have said, there are only 1 or 2 good Blight players in the whole community... it means a lot of how clunky and unplayable this killer is.
They were not intended, yes, but that's true about many things in the game that make it currently work. Survivors aren't intended to hug walls. Survivors are almost certainly not intended to be able to turn faster by making their camera turn the other direction to spin. Flick Billy is not intended ect. Bottom line, the devs (including the guy whom was in charge of Blight) know about the techs, took actions against the ones they weren't fine with, and left the rest alone. They are fine.
Blight's not unplayable without the techs, but they're a welcome addition.
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@Powder_Kegs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2600618#Comment_2600618
I thought said nerf Freddy into oblivion and this is all you can come up with?
Freddy is blind and deaf and can't deal damage until survivors fall in the dream state passively. Even when he can interact with the survivor, he moves at 110% while the snares are unchanged since they're oh so good. Maybe give him a 5 second stun every time he teleports. You know, it's only fair.
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In a perfect world? No. In the game's current state? Yes.
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@Pulsar said:
It's always going to be Legion
Legion has a sizeable fanbase. Twins do not. A character meant to entertain people entertains practically no one. Legion might have sucked for survivors, but was at least entertaining for those that played them. That automatically makes Legion a more successful killer design than Twins, whom appeal to no one.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2596675#Comment_2596675
"scandal". As I said last week, nobody is talking about that anymore. Which took a week.
@Topic:
We have 25 Killers, only natural that players dont use the most recent one anymore. I also did not touch him anymore since I prestiged him with all Perks. He is fun to play, but not as fun as the Killers I really enjoy.
Sadly, the only Pinheads I see nowadays are those who are using Engineers Fang...
Why would anyone be talking about it further than it already has when the entire conversation is "This is wrong, I'm leaving, goodbye?" I still don't see some of these people in the forums anymore, indicating that they've made good on their word and left for good, and then there's those like me who's sticking around the forums but not playing the game.
@OP
If you look at the Hellraiser chapter, it's most recent reviews are overwhelmingly negative. People, even if they still play the game, probably aren't playing Pinhead out of resentment.
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The Twins, and it's not even a contest. At the end of the day, a game is meant to be enjoyable. A killer that is notorious for being unfun to play as and against is a failure. BHVR somehow had the magic recipe for negative appeal for the Twins.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2596203#Comment_2596203
I mean, a killer needs to be enjoyable to face. Frustrating, but enjoyable. People hate doctor because he is frustrating, but you can still enjoy yourself against a doctor. Against a slinger? Well, no enjoyment to be had. It was literally just waiting untill Deathslinger closed the gap enough untill he could shoot you.
That's like a Demogorgon always being able to hit you once he is in range. That is like a Bubba always being able to chainsaw you once he is in range. That is like Huntress always being able to hit you once she has vision on you.
Any killer who can pretty much guarantee a hit when using his ability is a boring killer to face. Because what can you do as a survivor? Not much.
"B-b-b-b-but Deathslinger has a super weak 1v4" So? that is assuming survivors are always working as a team, which they are not. Most lobbies are 1+3, 1+1+2 and 2+2.
Yeah, Deathslinger is gonna need a buff elsewhere in his kit(heck, he recieved quite an underrated buff by reducing his cooldown from a succesful chain break to 1.5 seconds rather than 4 seconds, meaning he can very quickly pick up the chase again), but his quickscope needed to be nerfed.
You're arguing from subjectivity. I've stopped considering "fun" once I realized there's no consistent principle behind the killers that are complained about. Also, all BHVR did is make Deathslinger less "fun" for the DS players if you will. The problem is not solved.
You also brought up that he needed a buff in another direction, so you kinda agree with me. The NERF was not necessary. A rework was reasonable, but a nerf was not.
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Killers can't open the gates immediately, survivors shouldn't be able to exit the match early either. Unless you want to extend that to killers.
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Look at the language in the patch notes. They also know it wasn't necessary. They just did it to shut the whiners up.
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2 Years.
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I think there's really just a problem with Sprint Burst and Dead Hard. A lot of the other exhaustion perks are circumstantial or has a risk-reward. Sprint Burst, and Dead Hard, however, are just free, 0 counterplay value that has a big impact on chase. They could use a fat nerf for the same reasons that Deathslinger and Spirit did.
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Last time I checked, there wasn't a real boycott except for something, like one user posted. Many just had it with the company, and by extension, the game. Victory, in this case, is just walking away.
Also, these numbers mean nothing. DBD's playerbase always surges during patches, and this is one of the bigger ones. There's also only 2 real sources of information for why people are ticked. Twitter, and the forums, so this isn't exactly a popularity context of whether BHVR is right or not. As for me, I haven't been consistently playing before the controversy, and am not exactly feeling like coming back.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2577588#Comment_2577588
Which is why I don't like the idea of buffing this perk... it shuts down the survivors one and only chance of creating distance or continuing a loop.
That's not the case. All this would do is make pallet zoning better for killers that don't have it as part of their base kit. Other than that, it just means you can't reach a pallet at the other end of the map.