Malkhrim
Malkhrim
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573700#Comment_3573700
And that is why I think it shouldn't be a bannable offense... but a survivor shouldn't be able to instantly die on hook. My suggestion: keep second stage skill checks, but that instant death that happens after missing two in a row should not happen if there's more than one survivor standing (not hooked, in the dying state or already dead). If there is only one survivor left beside you or everyone is already down, it makes sense to be able to immediatly die to save time and/or to open the hatch as soon as possible, but not to do it at the start of the game. The first hook stage can remain as it is today, as the 4% mechanic is a fun thing that should stay.
As it is today, it's really problematic: intentional deaths on hook are a way for survivors to circumvent all the downsides of disconecting. They use a form of ragequitting that is worse than DCing (because it prevents bots from taking over), but they are incentivized to use this method because it allows them to circumvent all the downsides of DCing: the penalty and the denial of match rewards. Matches are ruined because of this every day. Players have complained about this for a long time, but now that we have bots, there's a bigger reason than ever to change this. Bots can't do their job if the player just dies intentionally on hook.
Either way, thanks for commenting here and clarifying stuff for everyone, Mandy.
I've already commented my suggestion to fix the issue, so I'm quoting it here instead of typing it again.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
A few things: Now that bots are in play there shouldnt be a DC penalty. Why? Cause a person who killed themselves on hook is only choosing this because they dont want the DC penalty. Now maybe keep the PIP penalty but not the time penalty, up for debate.
Secondly, killers can be a problem as well. Normally (in my matches anyway and I assume most) killers are trying for the 4k, they don't care about survivors rulebooks or them having fun, etc. But like magic a lot of the times when a survivor tries to get out of the game the killer switches into "I'm the survivors friend now" or They begin to actually think they're a real life killer and the objective is to torture by slugging rather than hooking to win.
Lastly, not all suicide hooks are created equal. I for instance have a lot of hours so I can tell real quick in soloq what type of teammates I got by certain subtle things, like are they doubling/tripling up on a gen often? are they overly altruistic? are they just following the killer around with a flashlight contributing nothing? How quickly are they going down at strong loops? etc.
Point is there's a number of reasons players may suicide on hook and not just a "rage quit" I find this to be apart of the game in soloq anyway, soloq is terrible, so I don't fault players for that and some people don't have friends (imagine that! a loner gamer with no friends, so rare right? lol).
The DC penalty absolutely NEEDS to stay because having a bot instead of a player is still detrimental to the team and can still ruin games, just not as much as a hook suicide because that leaves absolutely nothing behind. People are killing themselves on hook to avoid the penalty? Remove that option from them. Come on, the penalty is really low at first, if someone is going to stop playing because there is always a penalty when they ragequit, maybe they already shouldn't be playing to begin with.
Killer not caring about a non-existent rulebook is not a problem. A killer LEAVING the match and immediatly ending it with the fun of all the other players is a problem, but the killer has to leave the game normally and take the penalty, while survivors have a way of circumventing this.
Not all hook suicides are created equal? That is true because there is another reason for a player to SOMETIMES want to die as fast as possible: giving hatch to another player. That's why the instant death on missing hook skillchecks should only happen if there is only one survivor left standing. Otherwise, it's either a technical issue or a player wanting to quit the game. If you want to quit the game everytime you notice you've been paired with a weak team, that's on you, not on the game, and you're ruining the match for everyone else when you do so. If everyone decided to leave everytime they started to lose with no penalty whatsoever, it would be hard to ever finish a match.
Oh, but players might not be liking a match and want to leave? Fine then, use the LEAVE GAME option and take the penalty. You choose to leave, you get a penalty, it increases if you try to abuse it, as it should be. The penalty exists to give players an incentive NOT TO LEAVE. The bots exist to reduce the damage caused when a player leaves. Both are necessary, but the intentional deaths on hook give players ways of circumventing BOTH this measures, which shouldn't happen. Seriously, I've never seen any other game where part of the community acted as if people who ruin matches by abandoning them were poor victims just because they would need to wait 5 minutes for another match (the first DC of the day is not even that, it's less than a minute).
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@kin said:
Every killer has some limitations in his ability, sometimes they are appropriate, but sometimes they are not, and one could safely do without them (for example, I will call Michael with his limited evil).
What do you think without which limitations / elements restraining the mechanic (for example, the fact that the protection from re-sleeping that a survivor receives after using an alarm clock protects survivors not only from passive falling asleep, but also falling asleep through a hit) in the abilities of which killers could be safely dispensed with?
A downside that I understand why it exists but I think it should be at least reduced is that permanent directional noise the Dredge makes. I still think it's one of the best designed killers, but that noise limits its normal "m1 killer" mindgames a bit too much.
I mean, I get it, the Dredge's power can be used to make lots of mindgames too, and its abilities can easily throw off less experienced players, specially during Nightfall. It's a really strong killer against the average DbD player and a tremendous noob stomper, some of the reasons why it has such a high kill rate. However, it's not that strong against really skilled survivors who know how to counter its power. Because the noise is directional, it also makes harder to make mindgames as an m1 killer and limits the Dredge's tools against these survivors, so I think it would be nice if the noise was not so loud, with a smaller radius and not directional when Nightfall isn't active, so it wasn't so detrimental to the more ordinary "m1" side of the killer's gameplay. During Nightfall it should probably stay as it is today, because less experienced survivors would get stomped even harder if the Dredge didn't make noise while the map was dark (I'm taking into consideration that the devs balance over kill rates and the Dredge's were really high in the lattest stats).
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@GroßusSchmiedus said:
Adrenaline waking survivors up and maps revealing Freddy's traps and dream pallets, i don't know why but Freddy gets completely arbitrary extra downsides for no reason.
Hag having a limited range on teleportation, not only is it unnecessary but it also incentivizes 3 genning and camping so its a lose-lose for everyone.
Back when Freddy got reworked, one of the devs (I believe it was Mathieu himself, but I could be wrong, it was years ago) stated that Adrenaline would still wake up survivors because they saw no need to change it (to be fair, Freddy was significantly stronger than he is now, and the advantage gained by waking up was being reduced because now Freddy could finally HIT survivors who weren't in the dream world) and it made sense with the lore.
While something making sense with the lore is usually nice, I think this Freddy-specific downside is inconsistent with the way other perks and itens were balanced through the years. For example, Slippery Meat had an effect that was specific against Trapper, as not only it increased your chance of escaping from hooks, but from bear traps too. Needless to say, that feature got removed. If you think about it, the same argument about making sense with the lore could be used then (as the name suggested, someone could more easily escape from blades piercing their flesh, so it applied to both hooks and bear traps), and Adrenaline's feature against Freddy could potentially be considered MORE problematic, as Slippery Meat was a potentially fun but weak perk that was rarely ever seen, while Adrenaline has been in the meta for years and only become more common recently.
Also, devs took that "no killer-specific effects" thing further recently by removing the lightburn mechanic, even from the Nurse, as it made flashlights overly effective against some killers while weaker against others. Even the ability to burn the Hag's traps got removed. Still, Adrenaline keeps an effect that only affects Freddy's power.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573699#Comment_3573699
Can confirm here that this is not what the report form is referring to, hence it's saying that disconnects are not a reportable offence (although I do understand what you mean due to the way it's even on there).
Regardless, survivors dying on the hook is not a bannable offence nor a reportable one.
And you can't prove that someone died intentionally on the hook, that they missed skill checks on purpose or by accident - hardware failure etc. There's no intention of banning for this.
And that is why I think it shouldn't be a bannable offense... but a survivor shouldn't be able to instantly die on hook. My suggestion: keep second stage skill checks, but that instant death that happens after missing two in a row should not happen if there's more than one survivor standing (not hooked, in the dying state or already dead). If there is only one survivor left beside you or everyone is already down, it makes sense to be able to immediatly die to save time and/or to open the hatch as soon as possible, but not to do it at the start of the game. The first hook stage can remain as it is today, as the 4% mechanic is a fun thing that should stay.
As it is today, it's really problematic: intentional deaths on hook are a way for survivors to circumvent all the downsides of disconecting. They use a form of ragequitting that is worse than DCing (because it prevents bots from taking over), but they are incentivized to use this method because it allows them to circumvent all the downsides of DCing: the penalty and the denial of match rewards. Matches are ruined because of this every day. Players have complained about this for a long time, but now that we have bots, there's a bigger reason than ever to change this. Bots can't do their job if the player just dies intentionally on hook.
Either way, thanks for commenting here and clarifying stuff for everyone, Mandy.
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Remember when the devs announced map changes in 2020 that included reducing the size of maps like Rotten Fields? It was nice, but I really don't understand why THE BIGGEST MAP IN THE GAME never had it's size reduced, nor back then nor in its rework that came later. To make it worse, it's more cluttered now, so you have to walk even more around objects, which means you might take LONGER to traverse the map now than before. Also, the house can still spawn a god window depending on the RNG, and the clutter is quite deceptive: due to their shape and color, sometimes you just don't notice how big the tiles actually are. Seriously, I think I've never seen so many people getting randomly stuck in tiles during chases as much as in the reworked versions of Mother's Dwelling and Temple of Purgation.
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By the way, I just had a game were a Nancy ran away from me when I was trying to heal her, went to a completely unsafe spot to try to get healed by someone else, got caught by the killer and killed herself on hook.
On the same match, a Carlos DC'ed after being downed for the second time, leaving a bot to control his character.
Nancy was the one who did more damage when giving up, but she still got some bloodpoints and no penalty, while Carlos obviously got a penalty and no rewards.
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Posting in this thread again because I just had a game were a survivor killed herself on first hook before anyone could reach her and the whole game went downhill. Another survivor killed herself on hook not long after that and I didn't even have the time to do my challenge before the match ended. Once again players left in a way that prevented bots for appearing, which ruined the game even further for everyone else, but suffered no penalty whatsoever, not even the first person who did it. This happens way too often and needs to change, specially now that the game has bots for DC'ing players and they can't take over after hook suicides.
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The perk is funny as hell. The problem is that, because it's more detrimental then beneficial to you, there is no incentive to use it and we rarely see it. Showing the killer's aura is just not needed when you already see them. It could be useful for knowing where they will be next and what funny mindgames they will try, but because they are usually quite a few meters away and you scream at the top of your lungs, you usually already know where the killer will be: going right in your direction. Yeah, in SOME situations the killer may try to mindgame you, but because of the distance, there is no point in trying to mindgame someone who will just be running away. The exception is when you're running inside or around a building or other big line of sight blocker, but something so situational doesn't compensate for a downside that affects you in every situation.
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BT became base-kit for survivors because it was the only thing that could counter immediatly hitting a survivor off the hook, which pushed everyone into bringing the perk in case the killer camped. The perks the killers can feel pushed to bring are the ones that slowdown gens. The problem is... these are also the strongest killer perks. If one of them were to ever receive a base-kit version, it would have to be much weaker than how the perk is today. I think Corrupt Intervention would be the most healthy option and the one that would fit better into the gameplay, considering that survivors often spawn right in front of gens and sometimes can be spread apart, which can make the game quite harder for the killer due to RNG. Still, it would have to be a way shorter time than how Corrupt is, 15 to 30 seconds AT BEST.
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@GroßusSchmiedus said:
DBD Community always was very meta heavy. I have never seen a community that blindly abides metas (and content creators) that much at all. The only thing that keeps it in check is that the cost of unlocking perks so high that many get discouraged.
Hell even games like R6 Siege aren't that meta heavy in my experience even in ranked.
Never seen one? Have you ever seen MOBA communities? They start trashtalking to you if you don't follow the meta in those games. I've seen that happen even in begginer matches against bots.
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I see a lot of people trying to defend the undefendable here. No, the game doesn't "push" you to do this or "leaves you no other option". That's simply not true. If it was, people would do it all the time. There is a CLEAR difference between trying to stay away from the killer but trying to do objectives while they are away or hiding at the edges of the map while doing nothing. The rules are against it and there's a specific mechanic made to stop players from just hiding in a corner for long times while doing nothing. People who do it are aware of it but try to circumvent it by moving around a small area once in a while to stop the crows from appearing while STILL doing nothing, not doing objectives or participating in normal gameplay and, above all else, trying to make the killer unable to finish a winning game and potentially force them to DC. You can try and say it's "a battle between the last two survivors", but most of the time I've seen it happen, when I find one I quickly find the other, because they were actually hiding together. Once a hiding survivor I killed straight up admited they were trying to punish me for "hook guarding" (I guess it was a fancy way of calling me a camper). In other words, it's done to hold the game hostage, punish the killer and to atempt to force them to dc. So yeah, it's toxic and a violation of the rules.
And no, survivors DON'T need to be buffed because of this. It's already stated to be a bannable offense and most of the community seems to understand that. Still, every time it happens it's insufferable. What needs to be done is:
- Create a mechanic were all survivors get crows if none of them spends a certain ammount of seconds performing actions and also isn't in a chase after long periods of time. Again, LONG periods of time. There is a clear difference between a player trying to play stealthily and one hiding in a corner to hold the game hostage.
- Create a reporting system that actually works and gives the player the tools to give the devs all the needed information about the occurrence IN GAME, instead of having to open a ticket every time.
Do you wanna know why things like this are rarely punished? Because the report system is AWFUL. In-game you only have a tiny limited space to write your report, which is often not enough to explain what happened. To make it worse, there is something many people don't realize: the ONLY in-game reports that can lead to bans are the ones about hate speech and harassment. The other options lead nowhere unless you open a ticket, but this is not instructed in-game and lots of people report griefing in-game only without knowing it won't do anything.
To make it worse, not only you need to open a ticket, you need to provide recordings of the match. Most people don't record all the time to begin with, and doing it may decrease your fps. Even worse, the file size you can attach in a ticket is quite limited, so you ALSO need to edit the recording by cutting into smaller ones.
So, in order to properly report a griefer or cheater, you need to record as much as you can during the match, report in-game, then minimize the game's window, open a website, login, edit your recording, open a ticket with a larger text, attach your recordings and send. That is way too much work and time spent when what you actually want to do is just go as quickly as possible to the other match, so most people don't even bother. The best solution for this would be implementing some sort of replay feature that allowed devs to review reported matches. But I don't know if it's possible to make it work in this game at all.
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So, the Hag's appearance does have a few similarities to a Wendigo, but she is actually based on another mythical being, which is called exactly like her name, a hag, witch is a shortening of hægtesse, an old english word for witch. Her tome confirms that, as legends about witches are briefly mentioned (by the way, she still needs a second tome, because the one she got sucked). Having a hideous appearance, living in a woods or swamp, making use of magic and eating human flesh are all traits associated with hags. Another detail is how her body has the same colors as her swamp: her chapter's poster even had her looking more green, and sometimes hags are despicted with green skin. The only major difference between her and a traditional hag is that she is not an old lady, but a young one who got disfigured by her cannibal kidnappers.
Meanwhile, her hexes and the fact that she can spread her presence across the map seem to be inspired by The Blair Witch, as the characters from the movie find similar symbols made of sticks tied together, and they seem to be conected to the force that is keeping them lost in the woods.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567312#Comment_3567312
Buckle Up needs to be partially reverted to how it used to work so the Endurance only applies to the survivor using it, not them and the survivor they pick up. But the person picked up gets a 10% Haste for 10 seconds like the perk used to give.
After it's been changed to be less obnoxious then Original Pain can be nerfed to remove it's ability to facecamp.
I think it makes more sense to make so it gives endurance to the survivor who is picked up instead, because otherwise it would be a little redundant with Made for This, and it would also make harder to identify if someone has one or the other. But if MfT gets changed in the future and loses this feature, than ok, give endurance only to the person who applies the heal.
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Some level of balance is necessary so both sides can enjoy the event. You shouldn't have to choose a specific role just to enjoy an event, and you definitively shouldn't have to throw a game to interact with event features. But right now, that's how it feels. Going to the void and releasing ghosts takes way too much time, which is bad but manageable as survivor but terrible for killer. The event is SUPPOSED to give both sides benefits to compensate for that and incentivize interacting with the Void, but the benefits survivors get are clearly better. They can refill their toolboxes, get endurance, break chase (and bloodlust progress) by going into the portals (you can only interrupt them in time if you are already close), hide inside portals to confuse the killer, while the killer's best benefit requires luck, which is suddenly appearing next to a survivor when leaving the void. Undetectable can be fun, but it's way weaker than endurance. There's a reason why Myers, Ghostface and Wraith aren't top tier killers.
Also, there is another thing that gets in the way of fun: killer is incentivized NOT to enter the void. Survivors can actually gain some benefits from doing it. As a result, you will find survivors less often while you play killer. If survivors hide in the void while healthy, you might take some time to notice they're there. In the meantime, there's a good chance you will walk for a while without finding anyone, which is boring.
By the way, all the improvements the recent events had in comparison to their past versions were based on FEEDBACK given by players in the older ones. People need to point out the problems in the current event so it gets improved.
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Back in 2017, when I first started playing, I my first impression was that Hilbilly and Nurse sucked because they would spend way too much time getting stuck on walls and trees. I also thought that Wraith was also bad at first, but then I played a little more and started thinking he was actually good. Wraith was actually the weakest killer at the time. Nurse and Billy were the two best ones.
I also had way too much trouble against 360 spins... because took me too long to admit the graphic quality I was playing with was dragging my fps down by way too much, so I just couldn't track survivor movement during spins at all as they would skip multiple frames. Then I got tired of it and though "you know what, making the game look good is not worth the suffering", so I changed it and, oh boy, the difference...
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If you want to play both as and against zombies, I recommend the indie "Contagion". I loved playing it years ago, but the game is still getting updates (it got a big one early this year), so I believe there are still people playing it (it can be played alone, but the real experience is on multiplayer).
The game offers a different, more grounded and immersive approach to the genre. The maps look pretty realistic and the zombie infection is treated in a similar way to how it works in the movies: everytime a zombie hits you, there is a chance you get infected. If that happens, you will only notice when your vision start to get blurred and the sounds around you start getting a little distorted, indicating the symptions of the disease getting worse. You can tell that to the other players... or not. There is an animation from when a player transforms, and they immediatly start playing as a zombie after that, and start to respawn as other zombies if killed.
By the way, when you play as a survivor, you can sneak behind zombies and instantly kill them with a melee weapon. When you play as a zombie, you can grab a survivor and bite them. Yes, there is an animation for that, and the chance of infection is pretty big when you do that. To make it even better, player-controlled zombies don't look different from the others, so you can pretend to be an AI-controlled zombie until a player gets close and get them by surprise.
There are also different game modes. In one, the players have objectives to complete so they can escape (similar to Left 4 Dead, but survivors who die become zombies and must hunt the others). In other, it's free for all and your objective is to kill all the other survivors and become the last one standing (and yes, everyone who dies becomes a zombie and keeps playing). I also remember another one where there is always one person that starts infected and, once they become a zombie, must infect and kill all the others before the time runs out.
Also: in spectator mode, you play as a cockroach, you can even die if someone steps on you.
All this details are things are remember from years ago, but with the many updates, I don't know if some of this features I mentioned have changed.
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@Vulcan7471 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566130#Comment_3566130
I mean to be fair he did a LOT of killing without a mask, I still think he would be a good fit for a second Saw chapter, just don't know what his power would be, the RBT suits him more than Amanda (imo)
He did, but without his mask, in-game he would look just like some guy. A survivor with a knife. Wouldn't fit in DbD.
Also, I still think the RBT suits Amanda more because it was the trap used on her game, the reason why her power's name is "Jigsaw's Baptism". Hoffman also used it once and got hit by it once, sure, but it has more meaning to Amanda, as it represents the day she was recruited by Jigsaw. Still, the fact Hoffman used it once is another reason why he would make a nice legendary skin.
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@BigChapAlien21 said:
I think something that would really help was if Killers could move in and out of the Rift faster, as well as if their energy was worth more to the Haunts.
Been playing as Survivor and it seems like going into the Void and out of it, as well as transferring to the Haunts, is the same for Survivors as it is Killer. Seems like an oversight.
Killer should transfer energy to ghosts much faster too. Seriously, the amount of time you need to stand still next to a ghost is similar to the one Blast Mine takes from you.
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At the same time, they stated they won't be putting skins on chapter DLCs anymore. It shows they have been actually listening to the community (I really didn't expect an answer from them about this specific matter).
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@CrypticGirl said:
I would think the reason they don't put in Adam is because we already have an Adam (Francis). True, Tapp's first name is David, so they just call him Detective Tapp, but what are we going to call Adam Faulkner? Just Faulkner?
The Saw chapter actually came before Shattered Bloodline (the Spirit's chapter).
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@Vulcan7471 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565121#Comment_3565121
Hoffman as The Disciple, thats what people thought she would be called in the first place
Hoffman would be better as a legendary skin instead of another killer. I mean... another killer with a pig mask? It would be redundant, specially when compared to the Pig skin that also has Amanda wearing a black jacket.
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I like Tapp more because he is played by Danny Glover in the movie. Maybe BHVR tried to get his likeness or something, or they picked him because the character was tied to the most recognizable actor in the film.
But there are other possible reasons to why Tapp was picked: he is the only person in the first movie that gets into an actual confrontation against Jigsaw and survives. Sure, the other two met Pighead/Amanda, but they just had a quickly glance at her before being kidnapped. Tapp was trying to find Jigsaw and bring him down through the whole movie.
Besides, Adam can't be called a survivor because he didn't exceed at anything compared to the other Jigsaw victims. He got kidnapped, got put into a game and died, like everyone else. Lawrence did excel because he escaped the bathroom, but he became Jigsaw's ultimate successor, it wouldn't be fit for a survivor.
As for John Krammer, Amanda is more fitting for DBD than him because she was the one who appeared in screen doing the hard work, the "slasher killer work", in the first 3 movies: she was the one going after people with a scary mask and kidnapping them, while Krammer was the mastermind behind the curtain. We only see him tailing and kidnapping his targets by himself in flashbacks that appear on later movies. That's why I think he would be great for a Legendary Pig Skin, but Amanda was the best choice for a killer in DBD.
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@Caiman said:
Who's the person on the art team that's so obsessed with backpacks?
It makes sense for a halloween costume skin. It suggests he is trick-or-treating and carrying a backpack to store all the candy he receives and the material he will use for the tricks.
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Agreed. There should be an option to randomize your perks whenever you liked. And from time to time it would be cool to have an additional game mode where everyone has randomized perks.
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I have to play a little more to be sure, but my first impressions are like this as well. There is now an additional realm outside the map where any player can go... cool, but all the gens are still on the actual map! You have no reason to go there as killer until you think someone is hiding there, but you will only be sure it's the best choice when you start noticing you already went to multiple gens and there was nobody in any of them (you can pretty much end up walking alone on the map for some time, which can be boring as hell).
To make it worse, it takes little time to cross a portal, which means that a survivor who is just a few meters away from you, can quickly enter it and instantly break line of sight, which also interrupts bloodlust progress and forces you to stand still for the same time they did. In other words, they got a bit of time, you got nothing that useful in return.
There is a hook in the Void but the killer also has the blinded status effect there, which means you need to make sure where the hook is before you even pick up. It's pretty confusing at first.
If you, as the killer, still spend a little time to release a ghost from the void (which is way too long of a time to stand still doing nothing as a killer), you get... undetectable, which is fun, but among the weakest killer abilities due to how the game is designed. There is a reason why Ghostface, Wraith and Myers aren't top-tier killers. Meanwhile, survivors get ENDURANCE, which is arguably the best status effect a survivor can get.
And just to make it a little worse, the portals are tall and bright, you can barely see anything behind them until you're inside one, so they also serve as free line of sight blockers. You don't think it will be a problem until they spawn right in front of a doorway. When a survivor goes through, you only know if they entered the portal or the door once you get to the portal yourself.
The concept of the event is great, but right now it seems terribly one-sided. Even more one-sided than the original snowmen. One side gets more fun while the other gets harder to have fun with.
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Besides being really annoying, this bug also heavily nerfs one of the Drege's iridescent add-ons, as it's harder to tell when survivors are exposed for being in the end of Nightfall or not.
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@Crowman said:
He left and came back to stop a save and then stayed to make sure you went to next stage.
Nearby survivors will slow the bar build up. If he was solely just facecamping you without anyone nearby the bar fills up really fast.
They had already gone far away at that point, though. When the killer first came back, the bar wouldn't move because there were survivors nearby, as expected and stated by the devs. Then they ran far away, the bar started to move again, the killer came back and stayed, and it kept slow even when the survivors weren't nearby anymore. So, does that mean it stays slow forever if a survivor approaches at any point then leaves?
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@MetalJesus said:
Hmm, was it on Borgo yesterday?
No, it happened on Eyrie of Crows.
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@Skitten56 said:
As a person who mainly plays killer I actually agree with you. Definitely could be a bit faster.
For example, I had a match yesterday where no one went to save this poor Nea on hook and she hit stage two. I was annoyed with the survivors at that point so I was like, "I'll do it myself" and went to the hook to facecamp them so they could be saved by me instead since their team clearly wasn't going to do it. She ended up dying on hook anyways even though I got there somewhat quickly into stage 2. And to be clear she was passing all the skill checks on hook. I imagine the bar was really close to finishing but it is crazy that I can intentionally try to facecamp someone in order to save them and it is still not enough.
Damn, I feel bad for the survivor. More proof that the bar needs to be sped up a little.
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There would be a problem with this, though: it would become an anti-Dredge perk. The Dredge doesn't need an indirect nerf.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
I prefer map themed hooks
Yeah, hooks are way better blending with the map than fitting the killer. They are still part of the scenario afterall.
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Other awesome things about indoor maps:
- They are among the best looking maps. Lery's rework was one of the first ones to actually impress players with its great visuals and sounds compared to the ones of its former version. Not to mention Silent Hill, Hawkins and RPD.
- One of the reasons this game is not scary is that you can often see the killer coming from a mile away. Having less information about the killer's wherabouts and room for being surprised and ambushed increases the tension and is more fitting for an horror game. Not to mention the potential jumpscares.
- Indoor maps are the most unique. Outdoor maps have similar lay-outs and loop-patterns, and many of their tiles are the most common ones you see on every other map. Meanwhile, indoor maps have the most unique lay-outs and loops.
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Some indoor maps are actually among my favorites. And honestly, playing m1 killers on some indoor maps feels like playing them should always feel, specially the stealth ones. People complain a lot about holding W, but then they complain about the maps where this tactics are actually harder to perform. On them not only you can't see where the killer is coming from when you hear the terror radius, but the gens are also mostly on unsafe locations where you can be ambushed or at least won't have a lot of space to run away once the killer approaches. The only exception to this is RPD, because up to 3 gens there might spawn on extremely open and safe areas, but some of the others are actually on pretty good places to ambush survivors.
Indoor maps have downsides? Sure, but they are highly exaggerated by players quite often:
"You can't use the crows to track survivors": You can't see when they fly away, but you might still notice crows returning to their places after being disturbed by survivors, which also helps you to track. It's important to remember that is way harder to avoid disturbing crows while running on thight rooms and corridors, so they will be disturbed more often, which means Spies from the Shadows is actually worth using on some of these maps. Either way, crows are usually only the last resort for tracking a survivor when you're not getting info from any other source. The impact of not seeing them when they fly is quite small, and compensated by the fact that survivors can't see you approaching either.
"You can't see scratch marks": actually you can, and they are as useful as ever. Sure, you can't see them across the entire map, but that is not really needed on every map, specially considering the advantages this map already provides you. Additionally, aura-revealing perks are more relevant indoors.
"Some killer powers don't work well there": this is the most notable and most repeated argument against indoor maps. But you see, there are 37 killers (Xenomorph included). 5 of them have powers that are harder to use in indoors but can still work around it if the player is skilled (Trapper, Nurse, Cannibal, Oni and Blight) and 6 of them are actually put at a disavantage in indoor maps (Hilbilly, Huntress, Deathslinger, Singularity and Cenobite, Trickster). Meanwhile, All the other 26 killers actually benefit from it, specially 8 of them: Wraith, Myers, Hag, Pig, Ghostface, Sadako, Xenomorph and Knight. Just like indoor maps work against projectile powers, outdoor maps often work against stealth powers, and indoor maps is where stealth killers and builds thrive. Many of the killers who are weaker in indoor maps can actually benefit from them by using stealth perks and add-ons, sometimes even Huntress.
So, even though there's quite a few killers whose powers don't match well with indoor maps, there are far more killers who get benefits from indoor maps, specially stealth killers, who are among the weakest in the game (reworked Sadako being an exception right now, of course). Meanwhile, survivors actually have more space to try to counter the NURSE in these maps, as the best way to counter her is to get out of her line of sight so she doesn't know exactly where you are.
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Prediction: Sadako will have the top kill rate.
The Singularity will have the lowest kill rate in the game, second to Nurse AT BEST, but probably even lower than hers.
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I believe that happens because scratch marks take a little longer to appear then they did until a few years ago. Sometimes I chase someone to a corner on an indoor map and get close to them, but when I turn the corner right after them, there are multiple possible paths they could have just taken, and no scratch marks in sight. They only appear after a second or two, but that throws me off a little when it happens.
Other possible explanation could be maps where they are sometimes harder to see on the ground, like Ormond and Shattered Square.
Either way, scratch marks do act a little weird sometimes. Once I noticed they can appear in places the survivor didn't really sprint through, but where they were facing and seemed "about to run into" instead. Seriously, once I've seen a survivor run until he got behind a short loop and stopped there, but suddenly scratchmarks appeared right in front of where he stopped.
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@[Deleted User] said:
His kill rates might be high. Trapper sits above 50%. Most players don't play a style that approaches optimal at most MMRs. I genuinely think he's one of the weakest killers on the entire roster. I feel like I'm going crazy when I see Singularity ranked in B or A tier. He has many of the exact same problems as Trapper. High set up time with easy counterplay and low payoff. Singularity doesn't have map pressure if the survivors are trying to win the game. You tag someone across the map and an EMP immediately goes off. You just went AFK for 15 seconds, but you didn't apply map pressure.
Trapper's kill rates are higher because, despite him being weak, he is still quite simple to play (so no issue of players not even being able to control him right and outplaying themselves, and he probably feels at least decent for begginers too). Sometimes he gets lucky because survivors who aren't very good step in traps that should be obvious to veteran players. That propels his kill rates up. On the other hands, killers that are more clunky and have a high skill floor have usually low kill rates, because a lot of the people playing them are still trying to learn them and losing many games.
And Hux, well... he is the clunkiest killer in the game.
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@Malkhrim said:
Face camping: no, it's boring as hell. I only do it if there is no other way from preventing a escape, like when coordinated survivors are swarming a hook and I know it's impossible (or nearly) to catch up before they reach the exit gates.
Proxy camping: not very fun. Sometimes needed and sometimes it's simply the only reasonable thing to do (like when you know the only place the last standing survivor should be going is that survivor you have hooked).
Tunneling: not really, but I don't really care when I "tunnel" someone by accident. If I just happened to find them when I was looking for someone else, I'm not going to hold back and let them go for free. Tunneling for real, on the other hand, sometimes makes a victory feel way too cheap and unsatisfying is you succeed at it too early. I usually only do it from the start when I notice I am against skilled survivors who brought a map offering. Might not be the most fun thing, but will help me not to have an unfun or stressful game later (also, if they brought a map offering, they are trying to win as hard as me or even more, so no reason to complain).
Slugging: Hell YEAH! Absolutely YES! Slugging is a risky tactic that is quite satisfying when it pays off: I save time I would have lost carrying the survivor to a hook, so I interrupt a gen in time. Or I just use that time chasing a survivor who was near the first and apply pressure. That gives other survivors a chance to rescue the downed person before I come back and they get a hook state but might also give me a lot of pressure. It would be boring as hell if you were always forced to immediatly hook survivors every time you down them regardless of context. You have to make a decision, and that is good. Additionally, sometimes I slug when I already started the game really well, and don't want to kill a survivor too soon so I can have a fun game instead. Much better than tunneling a survivor out because I keep finding them again and again.
On the other hand, I don't like just bleeding a survivor to death. That is slow, boring and... unnecessary, really.
By the way, I just had a Sadako game were I avoided camping and slugging the whole game. There were 3 alive when I downed one and deduced they should be close to finishing the last gen. I teleported there, downed the injured one, but the other one finished the gen in my face and triggered adrenaline on the one I had just downed. This started a back and forth where I would slug the ones I downed to prevent others from reaching the exit gates, and the last person standing would heal another and make sure there were always too survivors standing, until I got the condemns and started killing them without spending too much time. In the end it was a really close game were the last survivor got killed at the exit gate entrance right after opening it. The person even said "gg wp" as it was a fun game for them too.
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Face camping: no, it's boring as hell. I only do it if there is no other way from preventing a escape, like when coordinated survivors are swarming a hook and I know it's impossible (or nearly) to catch up before they reach the exit gates.
Proxy camping: not very fun. Sometimes needed and sometimes it's simply the only reasonable thing to do (like when you know the only place the last standing survivor should be going is that survivor you have hooked).
Tunneling: not really, but I don't really care when I "tunnel" someone by accident. If I just happened to find them when I was looking for someone else, I'm not going to hold back and let them go for free. Tunneling for real, on the other hand, sometimes makes a victory feel way too cheap and unsatisfying is you succeed at it too early. I usually only do it from the start when I notice I am against skilled survivors who brought a map offering. Might not be the most fun thing, but will help me not to have an unfun or stressful game later (also, if they brought a map offering, they are trying to win as hard as me or even more, so no reason to complain).
Slugging: Hell YEAH! Absolutely YES! Slugging is a risky tactic that is quite satisfying when it pays off: I save time I would have lost carrying the survivor to a hook, so I interrupt a gen in time. Or I just use that time chasing a survivor who was near the first and apply pressure. That gives other survivors a chance to rescue the downed person before I come back and they get a hook state but might also give me a lot of pressure. It would be boring as hell if you were always forced to immediatly hook survivors every time you down them regardless of context. You have to make a decision, and that is good. Additionally, sometimes I slug when I already started the game really well, and don't want to kill a survivor too soon so I can have a fun game instead. Much better than tunneling a survivor out because I keep finding them again and again.
On the other hand, I don't like just bleeding a survivor to death. That is slow, boring and... unnecessary, really.
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Four sacrifices, oh, a challenge that requires DOING YOUR FULL OBJECTIVE encourages tunneling and slugging? So admit those are often needed in order of winning? Because if they are, then they aren't toxic.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511169#Comment_3511169
I guess the solution would be locking lobbies and not allowing players to dodge them.
Please, never do that. I sometimes have to dodge because I notice my ping is high, and I often notice other survivors doing that as well. Locking the lobbies would force players to play matches even though they know their ping will be way too high. Lobby-dodging is also needed when you end up meeting a cheater from a previous match.
@Tsulan said:
I still think that there shouldn´t exist a lobby. When someone clicks ready from the main menu, the next thing he should see is the loading screen for the match. No one should dodge based on teammates/players. On top of that, the mmr should consider the strength of items/addons in order to match accordingly. Players with red and purple addons against players with red and purple.
Skipping the lobbies would be even worse, as it wouldn't even allow you to know those things AND would get rid of lobby animations and voicelines like Thalita and Renato's interaction. All of that to TRY to solve ONE of the issues with the matchmaking, and people would still be complaining about bad matchmaking just like they do today.
Disbanding the lobbies in case someone dodges would make harder to start a match, so it would be an even worse solution. I've already had bad experiences on other games where I would have to look for a match multiple times in a row simply because someone was leaving the lobby at the last second every single time. If people don't want to suffer the risks caused by backfilling, they can just leave the lobby themselves. We don't need to make the time waiting in queues longer for THE WHOLE PLAYERBASE because of that.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511199#Comment_3511199
Anonymous lobbies from the killer POV would be good. I've seen suggestions to eliminate the lobby, but I think it's an important thematic element. They could even change it to just show the 4 survivors in default cosmetics sitting around the campfire with the same killer POV. Killers will absolutely dodge based on cosmetics and platform, so it's important to hide those along with names. I get dodged in solo queue a lot too if everyone is on PC.
I'm fine with most of that, but I don't think names should be hidden. Seeing player names improves player experience as it allows you to avoid playing against cheaters from previous matches or gamethrowing trolls. Additionally, even though I personally don't have a problem with that, some people don't like playing against streamers.
Cosmetics COULD be removed, but honestly, is dodging based on cosmetics THAT common? We must remember none of those changes will remove lobby-dodging for good, only make it less common, and that alone will not fix all the matchmaking issues in the game. I don't think cosmetics in lobby are that problematic to the point of needing a removal. Prestiges and items have a much greater impact.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511627#Comment_3511627
I mean this in the least rude way possible, could this be a you issue? All three of those Killers have a lot they can carry over to the other, and as a Billy main I wouldn't put any of the three as toughest (albeit all three are tough) .
Like I struggle too much with Trapper and Hag, but in no world would I call them hardest to master, I just ain't that good to plan everything out like that... if that makes sense :p
Honestly, when talking about max skill ceiling, I believe the Blight is the hardest of all. He and Wesker are the only killers that actually require you to know the colisions of objects on each map to master them, but Wesker only uses that on a couple of techs while Blight needs to make choices based on that all the time. Blight also requires you to know how to position your bounces on each tile, get used to the turn rate, and some of his techs require at least moderately high dpi.
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@BloodBird said:
@Rulebreaker Well, half of the game when it comes to any killer is anti-loop techniques, and unfortunately with M1 killers like the ones in the hard category, even knowing those is often not enough, you require a higher level of play and understanding of the game to actually be able to play those killers to a comparable win percentage that the higher tier killers can achieve much more easily. While yes trapper is straightforward in terms of you place traps and all that. It takes a complex level of play to learn how to strategically place traps and successfully force or funnel survivors into them lest you are nothing more than an M1 machine which would require insane levels of skill to be very successful at.
A lot of the easy killers are ones where the complexity of the killer is quite low and the difficulty in reaching their potential high quite achievable as they do not suffer a lot of the drawbacks as M1 killers do.
The killers in the middle tiers are ones that have a degree of difficulty in learning all there is to know about how to make them useful and vary in how rewarding it is for doing so. You will notice that nurse and blight are not labelled the easiest, but it is not that difficult to play a decent one, the reward for even being average with those killers is super high. However a Spirit while also highly rewarding is still quite difficult to master as the reliance on sound limits a lot of players without really good headsets and is a skill most players are not adept at utilizing in the first place.
I understand what you mean, but to me that is not difficulty to master the killer. That is difficulty to achieve a win due to the killer being weaker overall. Sure, it's harder to consistently achieve wins as Myers against skilled survivors, but that's because he is weaker. He is not harder to master than any other killer, simply because his power is extremely simple to use and learn. You must learn when to stalk without wasting too much time, 99'ing your stalks and sneaking up on people. Beside that, you just have to be aware of how to use the benefits of his TIII. Like, know when you will get a hit with your extended lunge and if quickly vaulting that window will award you with a hit or not.
All of those things are extremely simple and can be learned in less than a day. Beside that, it will all come down on your knowledge and skill on the basic killer mechanics. In other words, if you master the standard ways of applying pressure, M1 chasing, mind-gaming and making decisions while playing killer, you are close to mastering Myers even if you have never played him. Meanwhile, mastering almost every other killer requires you to master both the standard mechanics AND a power that requires more skill.
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Best: Nicolas Cage, because voicelines and, c'mon, it's Nicolas f***ing Cage!
Worst: Quentin. Because bringing remake Freddy wasn't bad enough, they had to bring the one character that didn't even exist in the original (even though he is based off Glen). It doesn't help that he does not look like the actor and looked like a goblin for years.
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If you want hits to match the animation, change just the animation, don't give survivors a free buff just because of it. Currently windows just propel survivors forward, giving them more distance than they should, and somehow that is more beneficial to male survivors than female ones.
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I am actually glad Ruin is not a meta perk anymore because needing a Hex perk in high level play used to be a really bad thing. Hex perks need a full overhaul right now, as most of them are pretty bad and unreliable due to the RNG nature of totems (many of them with really bad placement).
Besides, that feature that deactivates Ruin when a survivor dies should be removed. It would have made sense for the old regression numbers, where Ruin alone would slow the game down by a lot and could be overkill when you were already winning, but it makes no sense now. The regression COULD be buffed, but only slightly, maybe 100% to 125%, no more than that.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
Yeah I use to think Trickster was a bad Killer who didn't fit in the Dead By Daylight universe. Seeing Skull Merchant has me praising everything about Trickster. Skull Merchant should come as a warning to all of us... Things can ALWAYS..get worse... :(
Well, a few things that don't work on her design and lore were done a lot better on Trickster before.
Her lore describes her akin to a calculating psycopath. She wears jewerly and a shiny mask, even when that wouldn't help her at all at stalking her victims without getting caught. Some suppose she wears them because of how vain she is, but her lore doesn't show her worried about her appearance or beauty to that point. But we already have an extremely vain psycopath who cares a lot about his image: the Trickster, and his design and lore do that much better. The lore describes like how he always enjoyed being the center of attention, how he felt like a god when being greeted by great crowds. His design and animations emphatize that: he wears colorful clothes, shows off a spin of his bat when hitting a survivor and even winks at the player in the lobby. Also, while neither of them has a scary appearance, Trickster at least somewhat compensates for that with his yellow contact lens, the blood on his clothes and, specially, his creepy behaviour, laughing as he beat people up and making a stilish presentation when mori'ing a survivor. Skull Merchant doesn't have that much personality or coherence between her design and lore.
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@Ghouled_Mojo said:
I have little to no knowledge of Brazilian culture but with that amount of population and geographic location, there has got to be some fantastic cultural history and legends going on there. It really is a shame we got what we did.
i usually don’t get involved in discussions like these, but they did her wrong.
The headless donkey…
I’m going to have to check that out. Thanks!
I recommend you check out the legend of the Mapinguari too. It's one of my favorite creatures from brazilian folklore.
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@Warshluke said:
For starters... Yes, I am Brazilian, and no, I am not a survivor main...
With all of this in mind... Skull Merchant is by far the worst representation of Brazil I have ever seen! Not only is her lore based on something from another country, but it is also really poorly made...
Instead of acknowledging that we have our own rich histories, legends, and actual people who could inspire a killer, they looked to a japanese edgy girl and said, "Ah... Make her Brazilian, it will definitely make them feel represented."
Instead of just complaining, here are some ACTUAL ideas to showcase my country:
Historical: The bandeirantes were explorers who stole, killed, and ruined many people's lives... They could easily be portrayed as predatory hunters, stealing other people's cultures and ideas. This would create a killer who is seen in history as a hero, but is actually a highly corruptible and malevolent person.
Legend: There are numerous legends, such as a man who kidnaps children, a lady summoned when looking in a mirror, a walking predator that killed hunters inside the forest, and a headless mule. And this is just a glimpse of what can be found with a simple Google search!
Actual people: Lampião, Filho da Luz, Raposo Tavares... There are many historical figures that could be easily translated into the game as killers.
But noooo... While Japan gets 2 monsters from their culture, Chile gets a thoughtful representation of a victim of a dictator, France gets an ACTUAL soldier's clothing, the USA gets multiple characters from history, Korea gets a representation of their songs, Russia receives a representation of a myth, and Nigeria gets a character that illustrates the consequences of an internal war.
Seriously, Behaviour, make an actual decent representation of my country, a country that literally fills your pockets every day...
Well, I'm brazilian too and, while I agree that she doesn't really represent anything from Brazil, there are definitively some worst examples out there, since it's very common for Brazil to be represented by harmful stereotypes. Her case, while not harmful, is still a bad one: it's definitively possible to imagine a brazilian being like her, even if it is an obsessed cosplayer, but there is nothing on her design or lore that relates her to Brazil besides the brief mention that she was born in Fortaleza. She could be from any country with japanese immigrants. Just swap "Adriana", "Ceará" and "Fortaleza" in her bio with the names of a person, a city and a state in Canada and that's it, same killer, same story, different country.
To make it worse, she was associated with Shelter Woods, a map that doesn't really look like a brazilian forest. They COULD have changed the map to look a little more like an atlantic forest (since she was chasing Renato and Thalita in Rio before being taken by the entity) or a tropical forest in Ceará, but they didn't.
Or, since they wanted to make a "self made millionaire" so much, her lore could describe her shift from a poor or middle class reality to the one of a much richer person, and that could come with aspects of life in Brazil... but instead we just get "she was upper midle class, but she studied economics and suddenly she was a millionaire who devoured smaller companies!", like magic.
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The Singularity has the WORST power design in the history of the game, for real. Not one of the worse, but the single worst one. Sure, it was a great, original idea, but not so good execution. And I don't say that because he is weak, he can be strong if played well, but it takes so much to learn him and to make his power even descent that it's just not worth your time. He has a clunky power that usually has to be used THREE times in each survivor to finally do anything, which is just teleport him behind a survivor while STILL giving them a headstart. After that, he is an M1 killer with a temporary power up.
Freddy's original power was removed from the game for being frustrating and unfun when it was actually much less frustrating and more fun than the Singularity. The Nemesis was complained about when he released because his power needed to hit people twice to do anything. The Singularity needs to do it THREE TIMES, it doesn't even do immediate damage and it resets with each hook. All of that not counting the complications of having to position quickly switch to biopods, move your camera fast, and the multiple places where line of sight can easily be avoided due to the amount of objects in each map. The Singularity is just not worth the time it takes to learn him or the effort to get value from his power.