MadLordJack
MadLordJack
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That's actually quite a good idea. It won't really be accurate, but it'll at least show overall concepts. And, perhaps, highlight reasons behind the decisions.
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You know, I'm down for that. Make Instasaw base kit when you reach a certain high overheat threshold. It would have to be pretty high so the resource management aspect actually kicks in, but it could definitely be a thing.
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That's a respectable effort. It won't really change much, though: Incompetence is rewarded all too often in DBD. Don't get me wrong, it's nice that survivors aren't punished as hard as killers, but DAMN. SC in a corner so you can get hatch WHILE 3 OF US ARE ALSO ALIVE? Some people never learn.
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I've definitely got to try it out more, but generally speaking the power comes from the ability to see everyone. It's like a pre-hook Kindred, with a nice side of letting peeps know you're on a gen.
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Yeah, ever since Instasaw and crack billy got removed you never really see him, even though his basekit change barely has any impact. That says a lot about the community, doesn't it?
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@MeatBycicle said:
Oni isn't a survivor or survivor perk, so probably on the back burner.
Uhh... What?
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People don't want to compromise. Or, rather, they want only a minor compromise. That is simply human nature.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1572440#Comment_1572440
Unless it's a swf second chance perks arnt really an issue imo, i can punish solo surviviors mistakes even if they use ds, unbreakable, dh, and bt
The issue is that you shouldn't have to, because when the ven diagram of incompetant players, second chance perkers and gen repairers cross over its gg's. No SWF needed. Sure, you can 4k a full team of DS/UB's... If they screw up massively, to the point their perks don't help them.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1572386#Comment_1572386
Theres Litrally 100s of examples...
And they often have perks to repair them, called "second chance perks."
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@BaldursGate2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1572191#Comment_1572191
No they don't. It lowers the dc's significantly and that is good.
That has neither been my experience nor what I see from streamers games.
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@Peanits said:
It affects all attacks, not just basic attacks.
Does it work both ways? One of the reasons I had to stop playing Plague was the robbed hits with high-ping survivors.
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The biggest shakeup happened when Ruin, a killer perk, got changed. Suddenly everyone and their dog was running UB because killers were forced to slug for map pressure.
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I like the visuals... But they don't really do anything gameplay wise, so there should totally be a menu option to reduce the intrusiveness. Same with Madness and Torment.
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Okay. I guess that's a good way of getting whiners to question themselves. But what happens if they realise that not everything in DBD is the same level of broken and/or counterable and that their skill and experience is worth nothing in the face of the strongest culprits?
Not talking about just killers here. There's some hearty scoops of BS everywhere.
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I'm not going to lie, I used to be all for DC penalties. Then I got kicked from a couple of matches for no reason (my PC connection was fine the whole time) and I cannot help but think about all the people that get that all the time, just because of the games buggy nature. I don't think penalties are worth it overall. Survivors just suicide anyways, and it's almost as common as DC's used to be.
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Uh... What perks have had their synergy nerfed? I'm genuinely curious, I cannot remember a single killer perk nerf except Ruin, Hangmans and Gearhead, and they never had synergy with other perks to begin with.
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@Dr_doom_j2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1571166#Comment_1571166
I'm sorry to say, this is all theory craft and imagination. Even if the best you can do against DS in a chase is try to force bad plays, that's not any different at a base level than any other killer.
You're talking about this from the killer side, but how many DS have you beat as survivor?
And the fact you play on console like me causes serious doubt that you are hitting anywhere near 90% of your shots, let alone 100.
Until I actually see a perfect DS game, I'm going to assume it's nigh impossible, and if most killers rely on survivor mistakes to work, I don't see why a killer that relies on survivor mistakes is so unfair.
Go watch Zubat if you're after a perfect DS game.
And the rest just doesn't make sense. I have genuine trouble seeing the point you are trying to make. Do you think that it's fair to not have your skill taken into account because your skill isn't taken into account in another scenario? How's that fair? Or your counterplay idea - that would make sense if you weren't extending your life for only a small handful of seconds. That's not really counterplay in any meaningful sense.
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If BBQ is so OP, why is it I only see an aura once or twice a game? If that?
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Deep Wound is not intended to pressure the survivor, not since it's change last year. Now it simply exists as minor game slowdown that only really slows down the game when it suits the survivors.
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DS/UB/Resiliance/Prove Thyself.
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I doubt it. As strong as his chase is, there is a clear lack of good Deathslinger's. If you don't believe me, look at all the people talking about his "counterplay." Plus, unlike Nurse and Spirit, he has no mobility or snowball potential and can easily be beaten via gen speeds, which is why despite his overwhelming chase he isn't the best killer in the game.
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In fairness, if dodging hits was easy and reliable... Screw that perk, make it have 2 minutes of exhaustion.
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@PoopoosEntusNunus said:
having early game and buffing weaker killers should be a priority
And claiming they are immune is bs lol
DS/UB: Make as many mistakes as you want and not get punished.
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@SeannyD115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568177#Comment_1568177
Slinger counter: make sure he doesn't have a good shot by using objects to block his shot. In other words lose Los. In a loop predrop the pallet just like against clown. Since he's only a 110 killer you can make distance. You can also use unpredictable moves so he can't land a shot.
pH counter: When looping him act like you are about to vault the window/ pallet then don't. Use unpredictable movements against him. When he misses his m2 make distance. His actual hit box for his m2 is just around the center
That Slinger counterplay isn't counterplay. That's exactly what he wants you to do. 110 killers aren't as slow as everyone assumes, and he's always moving at 110 speed because quickscoping. Sure, drop that pallet - I'll just zone you, break it and shoot you because Slinger isn't a 110 m1 killer and you literally cannot react to him unless he's playing like a moron and going for long shots. Literally the most basic play there is with him.
And "unpredictable" moves are still not counterplay, it's just the only way of making his shot harder that you have. Like it or not, even if you aren't wasting time zoning yourself, it's entirely on him to miss, not you to dodge it.
Same goes for that PH "counterplay" - that's just called faking, it's a normal part of gameplay, and the reason PH is so strong is because only an absolute moron would use his ability before you vault. His entire strength relies on just picking his sword up and hitting you. You literally cannot avoid that. Fake the vault or take it, he's hitting you regardless.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569625#Comment_1569625
You talk a lot about "assumptions", but you assumed my argument based on a question and replied to said assumed argument instead of actually answering a simple yes/no question and letting me reply. Now you insult me because I wouldn't have that.
That isn't a yes/no question and you know it: the truth about nerfs and changes is invariably complex and boiling it all down to a black and white answer is stupid and, yes, childish. You also deliberately misused the form of the word "argument," also a very immature thing to do. Am I insulting you? Yes. With alarming accuracy.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569600#Comment_1569600
It's a question, not an argument. The argument comes after you answer the question.
Grow up, please. Seriously, just grow up.
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@SquirrelKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569593#Comment_1569593
Not quite true. A lot of the changes for survivor over the years have been because of insane gamebreaking abilities. Superfast healing, no window blocks so infinite vaults, Old flashlights. All of these were labeled as balance changes. Killers are the main group to get changed for "fun" not saying that nerfs arent deserved or anything, but wording and intent is important.
Can you seriously not see what you just wrote? Why the hells do you think those "Game-breaking abilities" were nerfed? Because they were too enjoyable?
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569557#Comment_1569557
Do you think it's fun for killers to have their characters nerfed?
That argument goes both ways. In fact, it applies more to survivors than killers: After all, they have historically had more broken toys, and arguably continue to have more even to this day.
Edit: You're looking at this from a "main" mindset, aren't you?
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@SquirrelKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569489#Comment_1569489
BHVR does take a lot of consideration into fun. Its why most killer nerfs were labeled as needed for "survivor fun"
As is literally every survivor nerf for "killer fun", of which there have been and will continue to be much more of for obvious reasons.
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Some perspective: You are the entire team. Your mistakes are supposed to be 4 times as impactful as a survivors.
Just food for thought.
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This has been a clear and present issue in DBD for years. The Devs have done absolutely nothing about it except throw the occasional BP event.
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@mydogmax19 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568785#Comment_1568785
Who cares about shattered syringe when you can use the video tape addon. Like that's a last resort if one didnt have video tape along with John's file. Shattered syringe and John's file just makes up for video tape.
That doesn't make it a bad add-on in any sense.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569415#Comment_1569415
There is a fourth type of counter as well in the case of ranged killers like Deathslinger and Huntress: using terrain for cover to maximize the chance of a miss when they fire. Also you left out juking to increase rhe chance of a miss as well but that one applies to both melee and ranged attacks and generally is less reliable than the other types. There’s also a fifth subtler type which is understanding zoning to get into more favorable positions when chases are likely to happen in the first place.
Whether you think using terrain or zoning is “fun” is subjective. To me the question of where to run and where to be on the map is more interesting than the question of whether or not you can literally dodge an attack by watching for it to start. Dodging attacks is just reflexes and muscle memory built up over time, it’s not a thought process in the same way that planning loops and deciding when to duck or drop pallets or juke to cover is.
Using cover like that isn't really counterplay to Slinger. That's exactly what he wants you to do, because it wastes time and closes the gap. Against Huntress, it's genuinely effective, but Slingers whole deal is forcing you to choose between eating a harpoon or getting stabbed by one at a slightly later point in time, since he can quickscope you and effectively constantly chase as a Huntress with a tiny, dangerous hatchet permanently fully wound.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569516#Comment_1569516
I didn't assume anything. I said what your statement looked like. You may not literally be saying that the killers' fun doesn't matter, but when you say something is "not fun for anyone but the killers" (paraphrasing) and then say the fact that it's not fun is why it needs to change, you are effectively working on the notion that their fun doesn't matter.
No. That is an assumption that you are making, and an annoyingly straw-man one at that. Nowhere did I even imply that the killers fun doesn't matter, only that it matters that EVERYONE is having fun.
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@Buckoben said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569489#Comment_1569489
I have fun playing competitively, but I guess my fun doesn't count though. Also BHVR was rightfully clowned on for nerfing stuff due to fun it's a terrible excuse that now people use because the devs did. when almost all of us agree they don't know their game why are we taking balance advice from people who don't play the game!
Sadly, no. If you cannot enjoy a game outside of a competitive experience, DBD clearly isn't for you.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569489#Comment_1569489
killers with uncounterable chase mechanics are not actually "fun" for anyone but the killer
When you say stuff like this, you make it sound like you don't think the killer's fun matters. In fact, when you automatically exclude and insult everyone who disagrees with your definition of fun, you make it sound like you only care about your fun.
If you don't play to win, you shouldn't care if you lose.
You assume I don't know what I am talking about. I do. I main Deathslinger. He is fun for me to play. He is also an absolute unfun pain in the arse to go against and is genuinely quite boring, and I wouldn't mind the Devs making some form of change to make chases more interactive. There isn't a lot of fun in losing to a Deathslinger, because there wasn't much fun in the match. However, I genuinely enjoy the killer and he is quite challenging for me to play.
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@Buckoben said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569415#Comment_1569415
do you want to have fun or win. These two things are not mutually exclusive. and if they are to you you need to learn to lose. Why are we taking balancing cues from people who don't want to try something different because "fun".
You do realise that this is not, in fact, a competitive game and, as such, requires it to appeal to the widest range of players because, as we all know, there is some absulutely laughable crap that both sides can utilise.
Please take your competitive mindset back to the competitive gaming world. This is DBD, where losing is absolutely fun if you had an enjoyable experience because it is low stakes. However, amongst other things, killers with uncounterable chase mechanics are not actually "fun" for anyone but the killer and those rare masochists who call themselves "competitive gamers."
Also, the Devs do in fact take balancing tips from people that want to enjoy the game. This is something that they constantly reiterate in every balancing discussion or announcement.
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@Buckoben said:
What if, hear me out on this one, the counter to some killers is not looping.
There are 3 overall forms of counterplay in DBD: looping, stealth and holding W. One of these is fun for the whole family, one of these is fun for a small portion of the family, and one of these is just absolute cancer.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot number 4: Gens. Which, to be honest, shares the title of "cancer."
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The funny thing is if I, as a self-admitted player and enjoyer of such killers, point out the lack of counterplay that I, as someone currently benefiting from the belief that there IS counterplay, have observed, then I am in fact not one who plays said aforementioned killers and am, in fact, a "filthy survivor main."
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569199#Comment_1569199
I know what you mean, the blue glowing outline. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
yeah, so i maybe edited the comment and ranted about myself and everyone else that just does the old "crouch" tactic. I'm addicted to it an want a perk to punish me for it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569151#Comment_1569151
It’s persistent tracking though. The survivors can’t hide anywhere except lockers.
Even with it toned down on current Freddy compared to old Freddy (it used to be SUPER bright), sleeping survivors still can’t hide from me. They’re just too easy to spot. The difference is that against Freddy survivors can wake up.
With what your proposing how are survivors meant to counteract that if it’s always on?
I'm not meaning an actual aura, but an aura outline like the white outline you get when you're asleep in Freddy's Dream. The thing that stops you from crouching in grass and pretending you're skilled at stealth play. Walking behind a wall acts just the same as normal.
Edit: I just realised you knew exactly what I am talking about, so I'll say this: I hate that people can crouch and go invisible. It's unfair and stupid and shouldn't even exist, not with sounds literally being designed to not work. Anyone that tries that deserves to get bit in the arse by a perk like this, and I say that as someome that does it all the time and rarely loses on Yamaoka/Saloon/Haddonfield. Seriously, that's my go-to play and I wish it didn't work. I'm just lazy. I could ACTUALLY stealth, and often do... But there's always the Crouch Option, even for a Kate main.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568400#Comment_1568400
I like the idea, but it would probably need to be a hex
A hex totem to apply Freddy's mostly-forgotten base ability? Yeah, that sounds right.
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I'm super jealous. Trapper is right up my alley in terms of gameplay, I love being a cunning killer, but I cannot for the life of me enjoy playing as him. I just cannot stand his 1 base trap capacity, especially since he has so many good add-on combo's outside of Bags. I'm always going "well, that would have been nice if I had an extra trap."
It doesnt help that I started my trap-killer journey with Hag :(
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568785#Comment_1568785
Better for learning her, similar to Unrelenting as a perk, but terrible at higher ranks or with more experience as you should be hitting ambushes more than not.
Like I said, in the late game it's bad. But you have to test the waters and see if the survivor is actually going to stay at the loop, and while it's outshined by extra distance add-ons it still has its little niche. That being said, I am also super aggressive with her Dash and will never, ever stop trying to get ridiculous dash hits.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
John's Medical File, Combat Straps and Video Tape for ambush.
Gears, Tampered Timer and Annointed Plan for trap shenanigans.
Last Will for extra traps.
Nothing else is worth running.
Shattered Syringe is good as well. In the late game you can just predict that someone is going to run from a loop, but in the early game it can mean the difference between a between-loop hit or a pallet in the face.
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Lithe is super predictable, so much so that it's worthless against good killers. So is SB, but SB gets you initial distance. Lithe doesn't. I have seen the good and the bad with each exhaustion perk, and Lithe is not even close to being as scary as SB (they're never in a deadzone) or DH (press "E" to fix a mistake). Then you have Lithe (lock yourself out of vaulting and become super predictable at the start of a chase). It's not a bad perk, but it's not a great one either.
And maybe don't open your anti-SB statement by pointing out bad players. That's like using the "exhausted on the ground" crowd to say DH is weak.
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Talent isn't really something to put weight behind. If you struggle with Nurse, just keep practicing. Unlike Old Nurse, she actually requires dedicated skill, good game sense, and tactics.
Edit: I can't help with the first two, but as for the second: Don't predict survivors. React to them. If you lose LoS, blink to where you last saw them. If you can see them again, use your second blink to hit. If you cannot see them, float around for a bit til you can once more. Don't waste time blinking about the place. Even if they're in the open, use your first blink to go slightly behind them, closing the gap, and your second blink to hit.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568656#Comment_1568656
Well actually no matter how much experience you have you can never eliminate your own bias. Content creators' words should always be taken with a grain of salt because like regular players they have a personal agenda and will say or do things in a way that benefits their agenda. Critical analyse is for the individual, and should never be delegated completely to someone else.
Except that personal agenda doesn't mean "I want killers/survivors to be the superior." Unlike random individuals on forums, many content creators have built themselves on the concept of "fair play." If it is someone's bias that the game should in fact be fair and fun for everyone, and they stake their income on that concept, then clearly their opinions hold more weight than others.
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I agree. Learn to think critically. And a large portion of critical thinking is analysing which opinions have the most weight, and who is coming to the table with the most experience and facts. Which, like it or not, is usually the people who play the game for a living and genuinely attempt to critically analyse the situation presented to them.
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Your opinion is invalidated by gen speeds. Sorry, but that's just how it is. People can easily abuse second chance perks for free and easy map pressure, and you aren't getting "outplayed," but outperked. It takes no skill to use any second chance perk, especially not the Immortality combo. It just translates to free map pressure for the survivors, no question.
It actually seems to me that you have been going up against genuinely stupid teams that don't realise that doing generators is their objective and that second chance perks, especially DS/UB, are free gen time and/or free map pressure (free chases, free unhooks, free escapes, free momentum ruin, etc.) They are a plague in DBD, more so than anything that killers have, because you can easily win a trial without them if you just replace them with skill or, and this is the more important thing, tactics. Killers genuinely cannot say the same unless they are playing Nurse or Spirit (sorry, but all the other killers just don't have the mobility to rely on their own skill rather than gen control).
I have perspective. I test these builds and combo's before giving my opinion. And my opinion, and experience, is that these perks can go rot in hell. Theres no downside, it's just free gens, and killers have to rely on them screwing up MASSIVLEY before the survivors are in any sort of trouble. There's no skill, just immortality. I was disgusted at myself when I was testing, and I am disgusted at anyone who genuinely thinks it's okay to run this combo. Is it a free win? Not all the time. But when you do win, it is free. 0 skill or effort gaming, while you opponent is trying their hardest, pulling every trick out of the book, to beat a couple of perks. That is disgusting.
Edit: I should clarify, I was meaning royal "you", not you the OP. Everyone's opinion, even mine, is invalidated by the sheer speed of gens.