Leon_van_Straken
Leon_van_Straken
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- Leon_van_Straken
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Well I know you don´t want to hear this… but you can also decide to not hide and get downed by the Killer and skip this whole hide and seek game.
But sadly the Killer has the control of this game the only dicision you can make is if you want to gamble for the hatch.
But if you want to try to escape the killer will do everything he can to Kill you without standing a chance.
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Well it is no problem for me since I only face Ghoul and Blight :D
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BHVR has always been wacky with some stuff.
But sadly some perks are stronger in the hands of some Killers than in others.
Till this day I will never understand why Nurse was able to use Noed after her blink.
The problem is the following:
Bhvr would need to look into evry perk on evry Killer in evry Situation and this would be overkill.
You can make some rules for perks like they only trigger on M1 and stuff but it gets really difficult.
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@Dem34888 said:
There're many reasons that have been discussed billion of times and that's not ony about killers
There is a difference between Missmatch/Nuke to BM.
From time to time I can loop the Killer for 3 to 5 gens and not a single T bag or Hump is made in a whole game althrough one side is clearly better than the other.
BMing is a personal problem which occours in nearly every game and has nothing to do with the games balance or MMR at all.
If you are a toxic person you will be toxic no matter what.
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Well if I remember correctly at the time I started playing DBD which was 2018/2019 (I am gettin old) I was also new to playing Killer and in my testing phase I had the honor to go against a bad manners squad.
Most of the time I am a chill dude which shruggs off most of the insults thrown at me and try to reason with toxic players.
So I told them, that such behaviour would lead most people away from playing or testing Killer and there was only a short answer which lives rent free in my head since this time.
"Well if there is no Killer left than we have won"
This was the day when I realized some people really just start the game to make other feels miserable and I think my point is kinda proven after all this time.
Survivor in the early game of this game where pretty OP and even if Killers had Instant Moris (which I hated btw especially with noed or 3 one shot hatched huntress), Survivors were on another league of easy gameplay compared with todays game and sadly this is where all the "Cheap" playstyles got form.
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Isn´t the emote of saying no a cold stare while shaking your head from the left to the right?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
lag, the servers are doo doo, that's probably the crux of it
Would really be a sad answer XD
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Yeah lets remove Ghould from the game.
While we are removing Killers which are not liked by the community we should add Blight, Nurse and Wesker to it.
Oh and Stealth Killers because in Indoor maps they are way to strong…
And Insta down Killers I really dislike them…While we at it, can we remove Trap Killers? Its not fair that they can interrupt good looping which such low level skill set ups.
Okay for real guys…
we need to stop make posts about removing Killers under the disguise for the argument "we want more variety"
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Seems unintential to me…
But I think Devs have to tell us if this is wanted or just an oversight
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066391#Comment_4066391
The whole point of an achievement is it is supposed to take work. 3ks are so common that getting a killer adept would take no work. Getting a 4k requires work and a little bit of luck. It doesn't need to be made easier. Sure a hatch offering isn't a guarantee, but it doesn't need to be, it still shifts odds in your favour.
Even with how the adepts currently work it still only takes me 2-4 games at the absolute max to get a killers adept. I think the only exception was blight, his adept took a while because I suck at playling blight, doesn't help I play on console. All of my killers are adepted, and aside from blight they were all pretty easy.
There's no point just giving out achievements for free just because people want to get them straight away.
I can´t agree here.
Getting a 4k over a 3k is no difference and will most of the time lead to slugging the 3rd Survivor and dragging out the game.
And after your own argument Hatch should not give the Survivor the archivment either because its not a total victory over the Killer by just having luck with hatch
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066461#Comment_4066461
I don't know if the great reward is enough to warrant changes, and the equivalent would be giving killers a skill check with a chance for a great when they kick a gen. But then what would missing it mean? No regression on kick? I also don't know why "bridging the gap" always seems to be about making survivor worse. It's already the role expected to lose more than it wins and this doesn't help the average players at all.
Greats are harder for console/controller players too. So there's a gap there as well. Hours don't make you perfect at skill checks.
Did you read my first post?
"Important: Don´t understand me wrong, I don´t want Skillchecks nerfed but I thought if it would be more fair for all if the Skillchecks would always give 0.5% progress if they appear and a great Skillcheck should only give more BPs, so that the outcome won´t be tilted to the veteran Survivors."
This would bridge the Skillchecks for all Survivors. New, Veteran, PC or Consol.
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@cogsturning said:
Do you think new survivors are mad you've memorized tile layouts or pathing too? You should be better at things. That's the whole point of time investment.
I quiet understand your point.
But a Survivor which plays longer gets most likely a Killer which played longer (in an optimal world with functioning MMR) So the Skill ceiling grows on both sides.
But a Killer never gets Bonus regression on Gens when he kicks it right?
And I say it again, I don´t want great Skillchecks to be useless just more filling the gap between pro and new Survivors.
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Yeah I get both of your points that it would dumb down the Skill ceiling and it is not that heavy of an impact but as you know I always try to take the randomness out of DbD so that it would be easier to balance.
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At first this is my opinion:
I played this weekend quiet a lot of Survivor and used fast track and these are my conclusions.
Negative ones:
- Obviously in games where I was tunneld out the perk did nothing for me at all.
- Games where somone else got tunneld out where mixed at my side, it dependes on the progress made while the last Survivor was tunneld out
- Sometimes you won´t get a Skillcheck or you are struggling if you should hit the great one or should save your stack but losing the 1% extra progress every time
Positive ones:
- Close games with 3 gens or all Survivors on death hook took a heavy comeback. It was kinda scary to get into the game and having 6 gens downstairs in visible range and two people doing the last gen from 0 to 100 in less than 30 seconds cause of two loads of fast track dumped into it.
- Getting a slightly refund against pain res, because everytime your gen explodes you get 3 tokens.
- Sick synergies with underused perks like potential energy, dumping both in the last gen is a huge chunk of progress
To be fair I like this perk, it feels good to use, sadly the times it feels good are games against not tunneling Killers.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066169#Comment_4066169
Because back in the day adepts were just for unlocking killers 3 teachable perks trapper,wraith,billy were only killers in the game and than it was get 4k for achievement than raks were changed so getting 4k while having merciless victory was required on top (basicaly getting 3 classes in points iridescent so double pip game with 4k, problem was some killers like twins or oni dont get points in that classes because of how they are made to be played slugging), this was than changed to get 4 kills which is it now but than hatch is issue because hatch can be effected by offering and killer cant see it now and its totaly rng which I think it should be 3k for adept for some killers that arent blight and have garbage perks this will be still challange.
For survivor at start it was same as for killer but than it changed basicaly to just escape and that was it.
With earning adept as survivor while killer disconnects I dont have problem but you will need to have 5 gens done and reached the endgame that would be great cap because getting achievement just because killer doesnt like map or 3 gens pop would be cheap, reaching endgame and killer dcing will be great point to make it there because you reached almost exit and killer throw your effort so you deserve it (my opinion hate it megheads but I think its great cap), for killer I would change it to 3k because like hatch is so rng and throws middle finger to killers all effort and when its not hatch than some maps like larrys have so safe gates that like 75% of killers cant deffend them and its easy escape for survivor if he doesnt screw it up (do gate infront of killer).
I think lowering adept for killer to 3k is fair hatch cant be controled and if its with offering than killer doesnt know that he cant see that like me claiming that stepping on mine in mine field is thing that you can control but its total bs.
Yeah I see it like this aswell.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066139#Comment_4066139
I mean I don't mind if killers play like that for adepts. You only do it once per character and if your mmr isn't bottom tier you'll really struggle to get a 4k with an adept build usually. I don't come across killers trying to adept all that often. We get plenty of killers who play like that without adepts anyway lol.
Yeah but why "support" this playstyle for slugging for the 4k at all?
I mean look at this:
You go into a game as a Killer with a perk less, from time to time really bad perks and do a 3k.
After all that the game is like "Let´s see if luck is on your side aswell"
Thats just designed to be frustrating.
I mean why you get addept as Survivor if you get hatch but not for a 3k with hatch escape.
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The craziest thing I have seen was potential energy + fast track to break a 3 gen in like 3 seconds XD
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How did you have a fast track moment?
If the game was that short you would not have that much time to finish chases so the perk gets active?
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I am afraid BHVR won´t change this in near future.
Same thing for Killer if you manage to 3k and last Survivor gets lucky hatch you get no adept. Maybe you should have played better in that case or slugged for the 4k but to be honest… adepts only ruining games for the most of the playerbase.
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Imagine being top MMR waiting 30 minute quques just to get either gen rush swf which finish the game in 3 minutes or hard slugged at 5 gens XD
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
the whole "Go Next Prevention" is like, the best example of what they shouldn't be doing.
I think the game was in a healthier place when there was no dc penalties for either side, coz you could avoid the terribly balanced killers/full toolbox hyperfocus/stake out games etc.
It conditioned the community more to be more mindful of others get better matches.
I don't really think there is anything in place that encourages people to play in a way thats fun for everyone:
-Emblem system was removed (it punished people for camping or doing gens way too quick AKA not engaging with everyone)
-DC penalty and go next pevention actively punish you for controlling your experience (there is arguable a lot more unhealthy things in the game now than pre 6.1.0)
-There isn't really anything truly effective in punishing tunneling/slugging without a full build to counter it plus most perk/item options have been nerfed into the floor
-Same for killer there isn't really anything to stop genrushing baseline aside from playing really well, I'd much rather base gen kick be way more impactful even if it meant a nerf to perks.
at this point though I'd rather they look at old DBD and maybe look at what they could learn from it.The big problem with the "Free" go next because "why should someone suffer a bad game" mentality is the following….
Where do you draw the line? Till the game becomes unplayable?
You need to see the whole cake and not just your own piece, DBD is a 4v1 game and this means everyone has a different opinion on all these categories:
- Who is the Killer
- Are the Survivors bullys
- Which map came up
- Which perks is the opposite running
- Which addons are in play
- Do you like the enemys playstyle
- Is the ping correct
- How long is your losing streak
- Did someone BM you
- How fast you got hooked
- How long does it take for a gen to be finished
These are just some examples which could be take for the stance "My Game is bad and I am suffering so I should be allowed to go next" and remember you have to think about these situations for every Survivor or Killer in every game.
Now I hear you saying that people won´t abuse a free go next and I am just asking "Do we play the same game?"
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065807#Comment_4065807
Save that for a ranked queue for people who take the game way too seriously honestly
Till today I didn´t understand how people think that a rank quque would lead the players which like to ruin over experience would go for a challenging game.
Be honest: Do you really think that bully squads or hard sweating killers want to go against good enemys? No they want to ruin/win at all cost and if their enemy is miserable thats the cherry on the cake for them.
So who would go into ranked mode? Maybe give something to people reaching a certain rank? Yeah this would bring the casuals into ranked mode because they try to get the free stuff…
So we have two quques both filled with people who want to ruin games and people who didn´t touch gras since the game launched.So nothing will change except there are some people "bragging with the I am Diamond Elo" stuff.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065364#Comment_4065364
Those are nonsensical arguments which happen every damn time someone picks out the current Survivor-Perk which is now a problem or a reason why Killers tunnel.
Subtle cheaters are no reason why the Perk should receive changes or not. Otherwise you can nerf every Perk with just saying "subtle cheaters". IMO if there is a Perk subtle cheaters might use it is Hyperfocus and if someone is using Hyperfocus without Stake Out, it is a sign, but even then, there needs to be more solid evidence.
And when it comes to tunneling - it is just another excuse for Killers who would have tunneled anyway to tunnel. We know those threats at this point which come up when a new Perk is released. But in the end, Killers will tunnel anyway. Saying that Fast Track might lead to more Killers tunneling is just not logical, tunneling is already the most efficient way to play Killer and also the easiest way to play Killer, which has no downsides (if you pick your right chases of course) and only upsides. So Fast Track excisting does not change anything on that.
Ofcourse do such perks change the number of people tunneling, I didn´t say its the reason why people tunnel.
But a healthy way for this perk would be that you get the tokens by the amount of Survivors sacrificed not for each hook. So you had a comeback against tunneling Killers and not against Killers which give you a "good" or "fair" game.
If we keep punishing Killers for spreading hooks with faster gen speeds and reward them for tunneling, tunneling won´t disappear.
The downvotes in this thread are so random. People get downvoted by saying that a perk which encourages tunneling shouldn't give Killer the reason to do so.
While they Claim in the next sentence that the perk is not strong at all. If this perk is no problem as the survivors claim then there shouldn't be a problem to change this perk to be anti tunnel than anti hook spreading as Killers ask for.
You Guys are wild from time to time...
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I am afraid aswell that this perk could lead to even more tunneling, because it is one of these "They could have this perks" because you will kinda only know in end game chat.
Another problem I see are subtle cheaters abusing this. I mean who could tell if a gen really only lost a certain % of whole progress.
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Becareful sarcasm:
Or you could buy Skins like the one from Deathslinger which got a crosshair built in :P
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Big Problem is… nearly no one likes the changes for new Killers.
Poor Myers…
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Someone was salty giving everyone a downvote XD
But I got another story while talking about the "old times" in dbd with friends.
A mistake I made was getting told by a friend that you could miss skill the bloodweb, so the first time around I red every single item waging on if I need the stuff or not.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062093#Comment_4062093
You thought he'd be Emperor Palpatine too, didn't you?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062094#Comment_4062094
To be fair, playing against a Billy that edged the hit by charging and stopping just before me over and over would at least be stressful, even if I'm in no real danger.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062097#Comment_4062097
I had the exact opposite problem. The moment I heard any kind of terror radius, I ran for the hills. You can imagine this was pretty problematic when dealing with lullaby killers like Huntress. I also thought stealth killers were unfair because I was so reliant on the terror radius to keep me alive.
You can´t be imagine how frustrating this was…
Friends told me game was bugged here and there but I saw my chainsaw going through the survivor and nothing happend XDDamn I cursed so much XD
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Oh I got another one buried deep in my memory.
When I started playing the game I played Hillbilly alot.
But I never got a chainsaw down because I thought i have to hit the Survivor with the animation while stoping the sprint.
Don´t ask me why but I didn´t thought about bumping into the survivors.
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Well… some people may remember the old tooltips in loading screen.
"Drop a pallet to make a loud noise to confuse the Killer"
Yeah…
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From time to time I feel and I beg you this is just a FEELING so please take it with a grain of salt… that 2v8 gets griefed by "Survivor Mains" to extend the quque times with afk bots.
How do I get this absured thought?
Well often when I play 2v8 and my mate is afk his profile is annonym.
I know this won´t be the real reason but from time to time it feels like this.
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My biggest problem with this statement is the follwong.
The rare times I touch Killer I play my favorites, Myers, Chucky, Clown, Trapper which are nearly all changed now… but I play them from time to time or I try to get archivments. So I can play all Killers atleast decent.
The funny Part is the following…
If I play some better Killers, like Wesker, Nurse or Ghoul the Survivors I face seem to don´t know what a pallet is. (before you say that I am in the Baby MMR with them remember I have all archivments so yes I got all 20 Jumpscares from Springtrap the legal way and not farming and so on so it is not my first 5 games with each killer)
But when I play a weaker Killer suddenly the Survivors mutate to a navy seal team, shutting my traps down before I walk to the next location.
Something is flawed with the MMR heavily in my opinion.
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Rework won´t happen but you could buff him like this.
- Put his stealth Audio down, I mean he should be with Myers one of the best Jumpscare Stealth Killers in the game and it is kinda annoying that good Survivors know you are there when every Killer with undetectable got better stealth…
- Make it that you have to see his mask to reveal him so that people can´t run behind him and making him powerless.
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From time to time I think and I beg you not to eat me alive for this but… how about if you get unhooked there is a sound clue but not for the unhooked one but for the unhooker? Like the Entitus ratting the one out which interrupted the sacrifice?
Maybe let it be delayed but show the Killer how he can keep his pressure but on another target? This would work with a time delay ofcourse so that the unhooked person can run away. (Maybe hide scratch marks and so on needed to be tested.
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Totally agreed…
Last Day I played Trapper and I couldn´t place my traps because the character model bugged out when I tried. So after placing a trap it instantly snaped as if I ran over it…
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061568#Comment_4061568
exactly! aside from being entitled, i've never understood why people hate the concept of "players playing how they want". The idea that some think they should be allowed to control how their opponent plays, just for their fun is just crazy to me
From time to time it remembers me on playing tag in my childhood. When you catch someone but the person say "nuh uh, I stand close to the tree now you can´t catch me" Trying to dictate a playstyle which is nowhere written down and just exist so you can play longer while completly ignoring the fun of the other side.
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A huge problem is to balance Genspeed overall without dictating a meta.
This is a example out of my head and nothing official
Lets say that BHVR wants a normal game of DBD to be around 7 Minutes.
Now you got the normal playerbase, some are good (needs less than 7 mins), some are mid (needs around 7 mins), some are bad (need more than 7 mins). This would balance out at some kind but… you still got the following.
- griefing players
- players playing for everything but the objective
- quest and archivment hunters
- people prefer the hiding factor
- and so one you know this kind of players
These players can be everything from good to bad players but they drag the game length and the time to finish a generator down. Killrates rise and less gens get done. Now BHVR gets envolved and trys to fix things for the masses of people. But this affects the bad players as hard as the good players, because the players which normaly reach times less than 7 minutes get even more tools to rush gens.
And so you get to a point where the gen speed feels incredible to compete against.
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Uff though game tho….
Yeah from time to time some unholy times can be reached in gen efficenty.
But thank god it is not that common, most of my matches pendle around 5 to 7 minutes (wins or loses)
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Why using your blink as Nurse?
Isn´t it boring to blink at your opponent and insta hit them without counterplay? (that was sarcasm btw)
Everyone plays the game they like it to play and if you like it or not the Wesker is allowed to tunnel if he wants to.
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Many people tend to forget the following…
Yeah the game is heavily sided in favor of Killer in a 1vs1 Situation and it should be that way. Killer by design has to get the Survivor. Just imagine each Survivor would be at the exact same level as the Killer strenght wise. 5 Gen loops would be kinda… normal in that case and would drop the Killrates into a bottomless pit.
But the game is not 1vs1 it is designed to be 4vs1 (sad reallity is that in soloque its more like 1v1v1v1v1).
The sad reallity in DBD is the modern media which leads to unrealistic standards and talking points. Often you can see the new "100000000" game winstreaks on perk and powerless trapper while standing 10 minutes afk with 12 hooks or the 5 gen chase against a hacker without using a single vault and pallet. (Yeah I know that these examples are out of anything but sometimes a little eyeopener is all whats needed.)
I nearly played this game for 5000 hours and most of the time I am playing with friends because I feel hyper stressed while playing Killer and I can tell you something after an amount of time "escaping" gets kinda boring for me. I live for the moments when I go for the impossible safe and pull it off even if it costs me my own life.
Is DBD balanced? Heck no… there are way to many things which has to be balanced around. (Maps, Pallets, Killer, Addons and so on) Do the Devs cater to one side? No they don´t which doesn´t mean that every dissision they make is the perfect one for each side.
So maybe… just maybe can we go away from all this us vs them and try to discuss things like equals and not like angry children?
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@ImWinston said:
- This game mode is already problematic in terms of engagement, in the sense that everyone wants to play killer and relatively few people want to play survivor. If we try to make a perfectly balanced game, we'll end up really not wanting to play 2v8 survivor anymore. From this last interaction, I'm already sensing a bit of boredom/fatigue with the mode in general, so instead of looking for punitive/rewarding solutions, I as a DEVS would do something more fun (and no, the flashlight class isn't the solution).
Yeah but… isn´t the usual complain from Survivors that we don´t want to get tunneld out? That this is a big part of what makes the game boring?
So… it would be better to not punish the Killers which are spreading the hooks and "punish the Killers which go for 3 hook elimination?
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Well both sides got some hypocrits in winning and losing match ups.
Hypocrit Survivor vs Meme Killer (Win)
Lol Baby Killer take a shower
Hypocrit Survivor vs Meme Killer (Lose)
Lol we didn´t even try (while using everything the games has to offer) or you play something op broken (like trapper with unrelanting)
Hypocrit Killer vs Meme Survivor (Win)
Easiest game of my life why even try to play?
Hypocrit Killer vs Meme Survivor (Lose)
The game is unplayable, gens are to fast (while using a full slowdown build as nurse) f**** Genrushers (Survivors carrying one grey toolbox)
As you see both sides are not free from guilt in here. It is in the nature of man to search for guilt in times for tragedy, but few try to find the guilt in theirself.
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I think nearly no one will run this perk tbh.
I mean there are some strong anti slug perks like unbreakable or boon exponential and weirdly even they get nearly no use.
Many survivors want a consistent value of their perks and this would be not consistent at all.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058616#Comment_4058616
This is why some form of Kindred is needed, even if it's limited to showing Survivors who are within a certain range of the caged Survivor.
I wouldn´t say Kindred is needed.
Just let me as Survivor log in a hook which is shown on the HUD that I am going for the unhook.
Like Alien can choose his exit before moving.
This would help Soloque only since SWFs already know that I will go. While aura read still can be abused.
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Seven Survivors running to one person to unhook…
Way to many times…
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@Skeleton23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4056828#Comment_4056828
Thats what I thought. If this was a returning bug. I just noticed how the game just started and the games done.
If anyone has footage of this please place it here or make a post of the problem. Im on switch so its not possible for me to show it
Well I am afraid that this isn´t a bug my dear friend. It works as intended.
As long as a certain amount of gens is up the game doesn´t differ the bonus gen repair speed it doesn´t matter if the remaining gens are at 0 or 99%.
So it gets… abused?
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From time to time I try to bring this topic to the light.
I think the biggest problem is that the actual number of gens is tracked and not the progress.
What do I mean?
Well if you play in an orginized group of Survivors over Discord or something like that it is highly possible to just not finish your gen as long as it is not in danger. So you got a 99% gen and all the others which are at another progression level still archive the bonus repair speed while in Soloque when the gen would have poped the extra gen speed would have vanished.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Im assuming you mean vecna? Try running aura read spam on him. You'll be vining people through walls in no time.
But yeah a lot of good survivor teams around atm. And i feel you on adepts. Survivor adepts all you need is to get one single escape. But killer adepts you need basically a perfect game and you have to make sure you've got the last two survivors locked down. So many times someone will bring a hatch offering
It is hard to bring Aura read Spam if you are only playing with his perks :P
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4056641#Comment_4056641
Oni is the punching bag untill he rages than its different game, thats what I like on him his explosive nature which surprisingly makes him balanced.
Problem is that Oni is only a punching bag till he gets power and in this mode he doesnt need to make a single hit by his own and could archive it. While even more blood orbs spawn cause more survivors on the map.
Maybe they should make it like this. That the blood bar of Oni only fill up a third if he hits a survivor with a M1 by himself
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@ImWinston said:
- When you consistently play as a killer, you'll encounter teams of survivors going completely in the opposite direction... survivors who literally took over the game maybe half an hour ago. We remember the difficulties more easily, but we rarely focus on the "easy" things.
Yeah but shouldn´t this the other way around?
If you play less Killer you should get easier Survivors?
And if you play more Killer and are better than casuals you get better Survivors?
And I give you the point ofcourse we remember the bad games more but since I played this year only these rounds as Killer and got my butt beaten as hard as possible this isn´t the case here.
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@SoGo said:
The potential thing that happened is maybe, you just got bad luck.
But also, the new killer is supposedly quite challenging to pick up, as he depends heavily on predictions, similarly to Nurse.
Plus, there is a bug that spawns way more pallets than usual in the 1v4 mode.
Hey there,
thanks for the answer. Yeah I noticed that his ability especially the ground thing is really hard to hit. But I never had such problems with nurse. Maybe because i can slightly correct my blinks with her attack a little bit.
But as you know you can tell if Survivors touch the game for the first time or they know what they have to do.
So yeah maybe it was bad luck but I kinda have the feeling that it always happens when I try the addept on killer.