Laluzi
Laluzi
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- Laluzi
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I get why they have to update the interface, moving forward, but I don't get why they can't just make the new code emulate the same layout as before. And that, personally, looks to me like they're just trying to shove the shop in the player's face at every possible juncture.
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Agree, this achievement is pretty annoying. It was way more feasible when Vecna was first released and every other match was him, but with such a huge killer roster, it's like trying to get Outbreak Breakout with no map offerings. It's RNG (vs Vecna) on RNG (get d20) on RNG (good teammates) and then hope you can escape.
And you also have to hope the Vecna isn't doing his own achievement and specifically wants you dead because you stole his body parts…
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@Nightram said:
If a person use hours and pay for the game. They have every right to play the game just as everyone else.
Some people might have bad weather from time to time to have a unstable internet. And all our freetime isn't something that can be pushed. We all got stuff to do. And people try again and again to play. I want to change less penalty for those players. Have a mechanic where the server know wich is a internet problem. And a manually DC. Then problem solved.
We can agree to disagree and leave it like that. I see your point. And it is a very closeminded way to think. I just want to suggest on how to have less penalty, since we got bots. Who play like gods sometime. It's better to have a bot than no one of one DC.
We can't do anything about plp who die on their hooks. And now we don't lose pips. So we might see this more.
Someone who doesn't abuse the disconnect function and has bad weather or a local outage will face DC penalties of 1 or 5 minutes. I've been there and it isn't a problem, because it's designed to forgive few and scattered DCs.
You can't really make this a connectivity/accessibility issue when in your first post you're advocating for disconnecting against killers you don't like, boredom, this match is too hard and the other players are too good, etc, etc. Your angle is plainly obvious.
Bots are not subs for players, they're inefficient stopgaps. They're bad teammates for survivors and they're bad prey for killers, because they cannot be engaged with meaningfully - they either go down in 3 seconds or they juice with wallhacks, and they ignore Undetectable and are immune to mindgames, and they can't react to some killer powers, and they hide incessantly and are bad at doing objectives and let teammates die on hook because they won't go in the terror radius.
Sure, you bought the game. But that doesn't mean you have free reign to do whatever you want in it. There are rules, and disconnecting is one of them - it's there because it's allowable in emergencies or sudden outages, but it was never meant to be a feature to leave matches you don't like, and that reason is because removing a player ruins the game for the other four people involved and because you cannot ever trust players to use their judgement about that. Because too many people are like you and think it's okay to dip from a match because it doesn't meet your specifications of fun. Your right to play the game stops at ruining the game for other people. This is a multiplayer game and the etiquette is baked in.
Or would you enjoy it if every time you started winning the game as a survivor, the killer disconnected? Every time you cleaned a hex one minute in? Would you enjoy playing against 4 bots every time your killer game got off to a strong start? I've played DBD at times the disconnect penalty was off and it was near-impossible to get a match that actually played out to its conclusion. Everyone started using it for match shopping and the game was damn near unplayable as a result.
I really love that as fractious as this community is, and as much as we fight with each other on everything… absolutely everyone bands together and agrees that rampant DCers are the worst. If you're not trying to mask your 'justified' DCs and you're actually getting dropped from matches several times a day, genuinely having internet issues sucks, but it's not an excuse; you shouldn't be playing these kinds of multiplayer games if your internet consistently cannot support them.
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The timing on this is so perfect. I was trying to do an archive challenge and realized I didn't have Kindred on Feng and had to mow through a bunch of bloodwebs. DBD had my back… and so did you with your PSA posts.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758401#Comment_3758401
Turning off for a split second doesn't disconnects you. It has to be several seconds.
It has to happen quite a lot too to get that high a number.
Usually the price of the service is for the bandwidth. It's supposed to be 24/7.
Can confirm this, I was having brownouts the other day that lasted for 3-5 seconds (measured by my fan turning off across the room) and it never disconnected me, just gave me a huge lag spike/everyone running into walls each time.
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@Nomercyforweakness said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758710#Comment_3758710
There is no common sense anymore. This company has truly given up.
Nah, I think it's the opposite. It's profits driven. All of their UI changes this past year are pushing towards shoving the shop in the player's face.
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@Langweilig said:
I don‘t like the fact that they give the pods auto aim. At this point they could make the killer player just an AI, when they don’t need to do anything.
This is such a gross exaggeration that I have to call it out. Like. When's the last time you played Hux? Singularity is one of the most horrendously complex killers to play for very mediocre returns. There's so much setup, his power is incredibly easy to deny from all angles even as a solo player, and it's so common for him try to do a play with the cameras only to mispredict where the survivor went and lose chase. As it stands, I'd much rather play Hag or even Trapper.
Auto-aim does not affect the only people who currently play Singularity, it just makes him possible for consoles to use. As it is, the pods already fired automatically from his cameras, you just manually had to track your FoV over the survivor. This is quicker and easier with high mouse sensitivity than it is controller pads.
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Frankly bizarre how it went from the most survivor-sided map in the game to the most killer-sided one. What a journey of questionable decisions we walk.
The thing is, the map in its middle incarnation was balanced. I don't think it was a good map, because it had really horrible elements for survivors (massive deadzones in middle of map, nerfed house of pain, tight 3gens and many exposed gens in general) and really horrible elements for killers (very strong main house window loop, near infinite at double window house.) But it had a strange sort of parity within that. The revamp just slashed survivor assets everywhere while not doing anything about the killer assets except the 3gennability.
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Personally I'd disagree the Game is terrible for Artist - all of those pallets in straight corridors are free bird hits. Instead I'd volunteer Swamp. Its uneven elevation makes birding gens from afar a pain (without the easy cross-floor access The Game offers), so she'll end up missing gens that look roughly on the same elevation but actually aren't, get faulty information, and can't do crossmap snipes for that same reason.
I get why Huntress and Billy love Rotten Fields and hate Lery's, but I don't think Demo plays by the same rules. He doesn't have the long-range potential of the other two, he can benefit from lack of LoS via portals, and personally I find Shredding harder when there's so much room to juke in any direction.
Otherwise, most of what I'm seeing checks out, though some of the maps have changed since then.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758618#Comment_3758618
It was nerfed back then to shake up the Meta. Look at the Nerfs from 6.1.0, so many of them are at least partially reverted. And some were just too strange and Iron Will was one of them IMO.
And well, even if you pair it with a different Perk than SB or Lithe, you would still have a Perk which does not have value at some point. And while not all Perks will grant value 100% of the time, it directly contradicts with it. It will probably be used by people who dont use any Exhaustion-Perks, but those are really a minority.
Hm. I follow your logic, but I don't think I really agree with it. Like, I run Quick and Quiet and Head On fairly often and that's two perk slots that are not giving me any value for the majority of the match, and they're not applicable in most chasing scenarios because I need to break LoS, have a locker at the ready, Q&Q can't be on cooldown from a previous fast vault, and I need either a previous small loop around the structure or enough leeway so that I can double back a bit and my scratch marks won't be obvious.
I can't always use them, and they come at the opportunity cost of other perks that could have given me value (ex. Lithe.) And like your IW + DH example, they disable themselves - I can't use the combo again for the rest of the chase, and for a while after that when I successfully lose the killer. But when they do give me value, that value is huge, and that justifies bringing the perks. Such is the case with Iron Will, and it's applicable in far more of the match than those two. If you're injured, the killer is nearby, doesn't have clear line of sight or aura read on you, and you're not exhausted, you're getting Iron Will value. That sounds like a lot of conditions, but it's most of the relevant time, whether you're in chase or not.
Agree about the meta shakeup, though. I thought most of the changes were good, Iron Will among them, but there were a lot of weird ones in there or ones that were clearly trying to kill a perk dead, like DS and Self-Care (and the immediate landscape following 6.1 was the worst I ever remember the state of the game being.)
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758618#Comment_3758618
I don't get what the point of nerfing it in the first place
There really wasn’t one. It wasn’t an issue to begin with.
But that, in and of itself, is a problem. I'm sidetracking from the actual question of Iron Will here (to answer, I hate it because I can't see well and have always relied on sound tracking more than scratch marks or visuals, and it gives too much value for free when comparative perks always have conditions or time limits), but nerfing perks just because they are used is a terrible development philosophy. It concerns me that they seemingly nerfed Iron Will just because it was meta and buffed it back just because it was underused, because if there's no meaningful difference between its state now and then, the only thing that ever mattered here was stats and that bodes very ill, because now actual perk balance is not the goal. See the Self-Care nerf.
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Admittedly I'm not that invested in this, because I didn't enjoy playing as or against Knight and I maintain that dropping a guard on a pallet is bad gameplay design… but one thing that bears mention is that his killer power achievement, get a hit on a survivor that has a guard chasing them, is going to be pretty dang difficult when his power is now not meant to be used that way and the guard will dip on him at light speed if he tries.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758610#Comment_3758610
It does not came back in its old state, the Exhaustion-part is still part of the Perk. It will be a niche Perk.
The exhaustion part is nearly immaterial. All this means is that you can't pair it with Sprint Burst or Lithe. It's fine with Dead Hard or other exhaustion perks with conditional user-controlled activation, or just not running an exhaustion perk at all, which is more viable than it used to be.
It's a bad perk for accessibility reasons and I don't get what the point of nerfing it in the first place was if we're just gonna jump right back to the meta of two years ago.
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Unhappy that Iron Will is coming back in its old state (time to put away Vecna and take out ol' reliable, Plague.) Very happy about the Singularity changes both current and planned and that they took off all those Owned stickers on the UI.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758562#Comment_3758562
are there any worries with devs' team that autoaim will be used to find people singularity otherwise wouldn't have known about or you're aware of it & considering it part of the intended design?
great compromise for now though, im glad its not being forced.
Survivors on cameras glow white - it's pretty hard to miss an exposed one, and if the survivor is hiding behind an object then the biopod can't target them anyway.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758380#Comment_3758380
I'm just calling this now when they add the rest of the killers Legion and Plague are gonna be S Tier in this mode
They absolutely would be - Freddy would be pretty good too, because he'd make everyone Oblivious and the other killer doesn't have a lullaby. But I suspect killers with mechanics like that will be the last ones to enter the mode, for exactly that reason - they're balanced within themselves but adding a chase killer on top of their macro power would get pretty nuts.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757196#Comment_3757196
I can share now that the dev update is out, there's some good news in there for you! The auto aim will be making a return in one of the following minor updates as an optional mechanic. Tapping the button will take control of the pod as usual while holding the button will take control of the pod and aim at the nearest Survivor in view.
We ultimately decided not to force it upon folks who prefered to pre-emptively aim their pods at hotspots, but many other people appreciated the feature, so this'll be the best of both worlds.
More info can be found here:
Oh, that is excellent to hear! I didn't think making it a choice was even a possibility, but that's the best of all worlds. Also thrilled about the change to remote biopod destruction. The Stridor change is also quite welcome with Iron Will coming back, as are the changes to the UI - the things that were reverted were the ones I was most unhappy with, so that's awesome. I'm seeing loads of stuff in the dev updates that kept cropping up in PTB Feedback and it always feels awesome that you guys are keeping a finger on our feedback.
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@Phantom_ said:
Depends, do we know if licensed Killers are allowed or not? Considering nothing changes for the killers, right? (E.g. they don't get shrunk or turned into a giant etc.)
Only Trapper, Wraith, Billy, Nurse, and Huntress are in the mode. Though they've said they plan on adding more killers later, I don't know if that will ever include licenses (given usage in different modes is evidently a problem given the absence of all licensed content in My Little Oni.)
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@Deathstroke said:
I only burn them with high prestige teammates who I can trust to be ok/decent. But in soloQ you never know. Well one reason to bring one is that your teammates get more bp as well and maybe some killers show mercy. I do that often and I try to let those who bring cake to escape. But most reliable way is to play on good swf and bring cakes then everyone gets bp decent amount.
Showing mercy for double bloodpoints was easier before they scrambled the in-match offering order :/ I used to do the same thing, but these last few weeks I've noticed it's randomly started lying to me. If I get a 4 or 5 cake game, nobody's dying, though.
But yeah, soloq cakes are a big gamble. Personally I've found the high prestige teammates are some of the quickest to hook suicide ASAP if they see something they don't like. You're really only safe with a SWF, and even then it's a tossup on whether your killer is normal, AFK, or challenging the world record for fastest 4k.
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@LordGlint said:
You got proxy camped by a Dwight?
…this is making me desperately want a Dwight-themed Dredge skin now. New killer: The Locker.
But presumably Dwight was obnoxious about wanting the save so the killer wouldn't pick the OP up and hook them, and Dwight wouldn't pick them up either because he didn't want his team to perform, he wanted to show off his sick playz. I haven't had a flashlight-hungry teammate leave me for dead indefinitely, but I have had flashlight-hungry teammates sandbag me so that I'd go down so that they could try to save me. (spoiler alert: they failed.)
Anyway, to the OP. A lot of people are burning double BP right now because we just got off the anniversary event, so I do think it's still worth it for stacking match multipliers. But my advice? When you get too many games like that, switch to killer. You're pretty much the DM of the match as long as you're not losing terribly and you can both make better use of your own bloodpoint offerings and be nicer to survivors in your position. Not suggesting you spare them and hold hands around a fire barrel, just that 12-hook games with the first death at hook 9 are a good palette cleanser after a bunch of crappy matches where you scarcely lasted three minutes.
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I think they already significantly have. When I started playing, killers could stand under the hook and hit you down the instant you were unhooked unless your teammates brought BT. As the safe hook rescue condition wasn't a thing, sometimes those teammates would farm you like this for points. There was no camp or tunnel protection, when any counterplay to those things was heavily reliant on comms or otherwise high game coordination which rarely exists in solo, and without Kindred, you had no idea what any of your teammates were doing when they weren't in your sight. You could only tell when the Obsession was being chased, if one was even in your game. You didn't know how far a slug had healed and could only guess via how long they'd been on the ground, so sometimes you'd go to pick someone up and realize with the killer breathing down your neck that that player had given up and not recovered at all.
The icons are revolutionary. Now you know what's happening on the other side of the map, how many gens are being done and whether they're close to popping. Used to be you'd have all three people coming for the save or none of them, all the time. Nowadays? People can still be stupid or fight each other for points, but usually people see three people are on a gen and decide that someone needs to get off and unhook, and if two people get off the gen, one will usually go back on the gen once they infer someone else is going for the save. Or if the person who got off the gen starts being chased, someone else on a gen will get off and go for the save in their stead. None of this used to be communicated without Kindred.
MMR is the only thing they've changed that actively made solo queue worse, since MMR punishes you for failing to escape by giving you weaker teammates, which are more detrimental than having weaker killers.
There's still room for improvement, of course. Like making AFC progress visible to teammates, showing perks, making some perks like Head On or Power Struggle light up the survivor when they're ready to use so that teammates can coordinate with them, a communication wheel. But we really have come a long way.
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The survivors played very badly if they didn't notice you stalking in plain sight and then crowded a T3 Myers (even if it looked like you didn't have tombstone after downing Leon), and Meg clearly gave up, so I'm almost inclined to think the tombstone didn't actually matter much to this trainwreck, but… well. Tombstone Piece is the most busted addon in the game by a longshot and nobody wants to play a 3v1 at 5 gens. So I get why Meg gave up. RIP that Gabriel's cobbler.
But yeah, winning like that without any resistance isn't fun, it's just depressing.
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This is one of the coolest cosmetic ideas I've ever heard. Freddy would be difficult to get because licensing, but why not do Trapper, as the game's mascot and iconic killer? With some twisted metal hooks and a distorted mask? Though I'm not picky - I'd love to see any killer made Unknown. (…Trickster would be particularly hilarious. The Unknown tried to be bishounen and did not especially succeed.)
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@jezebelthenun said:
I'm unsure of how this could increase tunneling at all, honestly. Tunneling is something that is 100% intentional, and almost impossible to do accidentally (Injured clone squads are really the only way I can think of to accidentally tunnel someone). You can't really accidentally chase someone who was just unhooked. The only way to tunnel is to ignore everyone else and try to down the same person again.
Running into the same person after they've left the area or after you've chased other people or kicked some gens is a bummer, but it's not a tunnel.
I've wanted visible hook states for killers forever. I've accidentally killed people far too many times due to thinking they were on 2 but they were really on 3. I always feel like a jerk when it happens.
This. I'm normally pretty good at keeping a running tally in my brain, but it starts to fall apart in games where people have been flashlight saved, slugged, when there was a flurry of activity where I was pressuring and downing several survivors at once… or the worst, if I didn't notice when someone hit second stage. The feeling of ultimate betrayal…
I can see this making survivors on death hook more appealing targets to killers who otherwise weren't paying attention, but tunnelers are already quite aware of what they're doing. This might help them if there's clones (not just outfit but name, too), but there's a lot less to remember when you tunnel than when you're trying not to.
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Gotta say Jane, but I have a big soft spot for Zarina and Yun-Jin. Queens, the lot of them.
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Neas are like frogs. The more bright and flashy the coloration, the more toxic the beast.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756854#Comment_3756854
She's the same but with more hatchets, bro. You literally said it. Huntress "proxy camps" hook whether she's trying to or not, because she's a ranged killer. If survivors think it's smart to heal under hook, or to not look for where she is before they unhook, that's on them. And the "throwing fridges" thing I keep seeing about her is the fakest claim. You try throwing over half the loops in the game, and watch as they turn into dust instead of hitting the survivor whose hitbox is clearly hittable. If the hitbox for her was so generous, she'd just hit them every time.
Do you really have to get so defensive about everything that remotely suggests killers need nerfs? My post was verbatim "She doesn't feel oppressive and her counterplay is fine but all the camptresses are annoying." I don't know how you interpreted that as a threat.
You've been around long enough to understand that a killer's average playstyle will change due to trends and mechanical changes across the game, not just tweaks to that killer themselves. Like Plague became more popular when CoH was meta, and Freddy became less popular when BT was changed to work regardless of TR, and Artist was actually played for a brief period of time when Dead Man's Switch was buffed to work with Pain Res and then promptly nerfed again. More people are proxy camping with Billy now not because Billy couldn't camp before, not because he's any better at it now, but because he's still good at it and he just got a flat power boost that attracted the meta crowd, while previously nobody was playing Billy except newbies and double engraving Billy fanatics. Meanwhile less people are camping with Bubba, the previous champion of camping killers, because he is no longer as good at it with the distance requirement. But those players are still playing DBD, they're just migrating to other killers who's better at how they want to play.
Huntress is good at camping because she does the same thing she always did, but she has more hatchets and doesn't trip the AFC, so more people are playing Huntress for that purpose. And more Huntresses are just patrolling hooks with pre-nocked hatchets and that's annoying. I don't really appreciate the implication that this only happens when survivors are stupid and heal under hook or lead the killer back to the hook, because I've vsed 2 hard proxy camping Huntresses since Monday out of… 15? survivor games. And saw several more during the event. My prior experience with Huntresses would occasionally contain this, but usually it was the opportunism you're describing and not a Bubba-like devotion to the hook. Or long-distance hatchets or endgame plays.
I'm not interested in debating the existence of poor hitboxes. The fridge claim is a colloquialism based on killer-sided server validation (which, before you jump down my throat, I agree is completely necessary, you couldn't hit survivors otherwise) and hits looking normal from the Huntress's end while clipping survivors who, from their end, had cleared a corner or juked by a decent margin. She actually throws beach balls. But c'mon. I've got 4000 hours in this game. I've seen some bullshit hits. You've seen some bullshit hits. To claim otherwise would be disingenuous.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757596#Comment_3757596
Basically every time slugging for the 4k comes up, a Lot of people come to the forums saying they only slug for the 4k because of BP. I assume they're telling the truth, so I came up with a solution that should keep everyone who does it for that reason happy.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757599#Comment_3757599
The hatch is artificially deflating kill rates, so if they remove that mechanic they'll have to nerf killers across the board in order to compensate (going by nightlight.gg data, kill rates would go up to 65%, well above the stated goal of 60%) I'm all in favor of anything that forces BHVR to give killers massive nerfs, so absolutely they should remove hatch.
Heh. Well. That would be nice, wouldn't it. Would also be nice if people only tunneled because they went up against comp SWF every match and ran quad slowdown because every game was 4x BNP.
The bloodpoints claim is particularly dubious because at the point where you're spending several minutes to hunt down a hiding survivor… unless your game has 5 cakes, you'd be making more bloodpoints if you moved onto a new game with fresh score events and way less downtime.
@Royval said:
just remove the trap door. I don’t understand why survivors get 2 chances to escape when they lost the match. It’s extremely pity.
Hatch is there because the game is balanced against survivors a la 60% kill rates and killers are the power role. When you're looking at survivors as a gestalt it might always seem that one slips away, but individually survivors die in most of their games, even in games the survivor team won - where the killer, win or lose, always plays out the entire match. It's a concession for fairness, not in the match itself but the compared experience of the roles, the fact that a single survivor will never be able to progress their objective, and also a carrot on a stick for survivors to continue fighting when they're losing the game.
Without hatch, survivors have little reason to keep playing a game that's 'lost' early on, eg tunneled teammate at 5 gens or Sable killing herself on first hook, and they have even less when it gets down to 2-man games and completing gens becomes impossible. Remove it and you can expect a lot more hook suicides and people running up to die, because now there's no point in drawing out the inevitable.
One survivor getting away when the both of you know the killer won the game really is not an issue unless it robbed you of an achievement or a challenge.
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I like this idea and support it, killers shouldn't be punished for unavoidable RNG, but I don't think it would change very much. I imagine most people who slug for the 4k are either doing it because they don't feel satisfied with anything less than a 4k by their own win conditions, bloodpoints immaterial, or - less commonly but more importantly - because they have a challenge or achievement that demands a 4k. Especially when it's a complicated one like Rightful Owner or Six Feet Under or Evil Incarnate where 'just try again next match' isn't really an option.
This would be a step towards disincentivizing slugging for the 4k, but I'm less confident that bloodpoints are the presiding factor in why people do it.
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@Langweilig said:
I don‘t think it would be as „strong“ as you call it. It would just make boons a bit more worth using and with the current boons we got it‘s not that big of a deal. Shure shadow step can be pretty annoying, but finding boons is still easy af since they are as loud as megaphone. I agree tho that a big factor of boons is the location.
Also one totem as item is one less toolbox….
I'd rather face a SWF with 4 BNP commodious than one with 3 BNP commodious and a quad boon they can put in the basement or some tiny main building corner with bugged collision the killer can't reach until BHVR killswitches the map or Literally Anywhere. Hell, I'd rather play the 4 BNP commodious than no toolboxes and one stacked free-to-place totem with a map offering. If you've played against quad boons on RPD, you should understand.
You're proposing creating a tool that is not very useful for solos (even if you bring it and have a map offering, you can't communicate to your teammates to come take hits for Exponential, distract, run Lucky Break or Lucky Star, don't run the killer into the room that actually has the totem, etc), but extremely powerful for SWFs.
Boons are hard enough to locate without unlatching them from RNG. Again, I'd like to point out that if a killer could bring Devour or Ruin and hide them in a spot of their choosing, one that survivors had no way of predicting or locating without Small Game/Counterforce/Detective's Hunch, this would be a problem. The same goes for boons. You're doing away with the ability to predict where it is while also guaranteeing that the user has the strongest possible spot on the map.
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@iCoerce said:
Ok how is corrupt intervention even supposed to be used? I have this weird belief that it's supposed to be used to assist you in actually setting up a build. But very often I only see it in builds with gen slowdown. And within those builds the killer loses it within 60 seconds anyway. Any time I personally use it, I'm using it to set to up a build on totality. I'm using it to hit and run and set up something that I'm planning to snowball later, how is everyone else using it?
Corrupt is useful on killers who have to set up before they start chasing survivors - Trapper and Hag with their traps (who want to focus on one part of the map anyway), Singularity with pods, Demo with portals (though Demo can play just fine placing them as he goes, he's not so reliant.) Plague can also use it very nicely because basekit her infection doesn't last long enough to keep all gens tagged, but if she reduces the number of active gens from 7 to 4, she can keep them all infected and get some information on survivor locations on top of that.
In other cases, though, Corrupt makes the survivors relocate from their starting position. Might get you some good timewaste on an indoor map with variable gen spawns like RPD or Lery's, and newbies will short out completely, but for the most part it gets you 15 seconds before survivors are on gens again. It decreases the amount of space the killer has to patrol and technically makes survivors easier to find, but sometimes the whole survivor team will respond to it by just hiding for the first 120 seconds of the game and doing bones or boons on the dead side of the map.
@AggressiveFTW said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757183#Comment_3757183
I don't agree on making Corrupt basekit, but it would be interesting having to collect parts before being able to repair. With the compensation of reducing gen speeds I guess. No one likes holding a single button for such a long time. I made a thread about how to reduce unfair and too powerful combos, it never got a reply but I'd appreciate if you would share your thoughts.
I'd like to see this as a new game mode and experiment from there, but on its own there's a few things it has to consider - it further advantages SWF over solo (say you're carrying a part and you see another part, you can tell your team that if you're on comms, otherwise nobody knows anything, and you might get chased before you can go back and get that second part.) The other thing I'm not sure about is how chases and especially tunneling affect this - if I'm carrying a vital part for a gen and the killer won't get off me, this potentially presents a problem to the team.
It would also make survivors harder to find in general, since they're spending more time searching in unpredictable parts of the map as opposed to actually on the gens. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is very different to the current gameplay loop.
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@jezebelthenun said:
As someone who plays survivor more than killer, but enjoys both, WA+Franklin's being such a hot topic kind of cracks me up. I was ready to jump on the hate wagon at first. The hype of it made it look ridiculously OP and uncounterable. Then I played against it a few times. Real talk, it's a nuisance at worst. It can be kind of annoying to have to jump off a gen, pick up my toolbox, and walk it to the map edges. It wastes a little time, sure. Getting hit with franklins is decidedly more annoying because I probably will lose my item charges and possibly a BNP if I'm lucky enough to have one. If I get hooked, hopefully a teammate picks up my box and carries it to the map edges. They waste a little time. Not a huge deal.
The real villains in this perk combo are other survivors who refuse to pick up and move items when they see them. Like, c'mon guys. It's not that big a deal. And if you know WA is in effect, STOP OPENING CHESTS FOR NEW OBJECTS.
All in all, a lot of hate hype for no reason.
Oh god, this. It was so bad during the anniversary event. Weave OP, but hang on a sec and let me open this party chest. Alright, got my sweet bloodpoints, but all this aura reading everywhere is so unfair!!!!
Personally, I think this perk is busted on two-story maps because the amount of info the perk provides all but doubles while making the item much harder to find, but otherwise it's fine. It tells you when it's in play. Even if you get Franklins'd, ideally you just leave the loop and clean up later.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757392#Comment_3757392
When circle of healing was actually meta, the counterplay was to snuff it.
That's also base kit, and takes you out of the way of the action. Killers swore that it took minutes to go deal with and was a huge waste of time (for survivors, that's called slowdown).
I also have no control over my teammates, so I can repeatedly drop an item in the corner, or not bring one at all, and still be completely screwed because my teammate dropped something in main, and I have no way to communicate that. It's also likely too late by the time I find out it's even there, too.
Not to mention that the survivor item is the closest equivalent to the killer's power. Do you not think that, if survivors had a perk that forced the killer to avoid using their power most of the match that would somehow not be a problem?
The issue with snuffing CoH is that it didn't accomplish anything but a stalemate when the killer's time is more valuable than individual survivors. You'd snuff the boon and the survivor would put it up again. Moving your item out of the way is a one-and-done deal. The killer can't put it back in the middle of the map.
Though I agree that not having control over your teammates is frustrating here, because finding their item litter is hard and makes you a target while you're doing it.
Items being the survivor power is a pretty poor analogy. They either have limited use or run out quite quickly, and losing your item is only really going to change how you play if you had a flashlight. And that could already be negated by Lightborn or just the killer being cautious. Contrast to if I'm playing Billy and suddenly I don't have a chainsaw anymore. It's not a great comparison. I don't understand the reliance on items, and that's solo queue talking.
I don't really have a vested interest in defending Weave Attunement. I used it precisely once for Adept Lich. But I don't think it's half the problem people are making it out to be.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757310#Comment_3757310
Cause unhooked one being save no matter how killer play good to secure this person
You got a hook state for 0 chase time and the hook you are trying to defend is still occupied. This is not a problem unless you were proxying the hook for a while and the 0 chase time is no longer true, because you essentially used all of your time camping to force that interaction and didn't pressure anyone else during it, or you are trying to force the unhooked player out of the game and your new hook stage is not on the survivor you want to pressure.
I'm not really weeping for either of these scenarios. Nor am I feeling that sitting next to the hook having a staring contest is 'playing good.'
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I don't like the idea of being able to place totems in user-chosen spots - that's automatically too strong for both boons and hexes. Like, imagine if the Devour totem you're searching for doesn't have to be a certain distance from another bone and isn't in a preplaced spot but can be literally anywhere on the map. That's scary, right? Boon perks in particular are very location-dependent and by not conforming to set spots a user can memorize (which balances the fact that some of those spots are sneaky), you make finding the boon too time-intensive - which, if survivors have brought a portable bone with CoH/Shadow Step/Dark Theory/Exponential and dropped it in a hidden nook in an empty room above a hot zone, is a problem.
I'd rather see totem spawns fixed to be less blatantly obvious, but still semi-regular in placement. More Lery's, less Ormond.
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757423#Comment_3757423
Boons are not good. I never see them in my games and I doubt you do. Nobody uses them for a reason.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757432#Comment_3757432
I don‘t think it would be broken, but a lot better than it currently is. You can still follow the pools of blood.
Boons are bad because they're horribly map dependent and RNG dependent on top of that. If you can get a two-story map where there are guaranteed totem spawns that are semi-central and cover multiple floors, boons suddenly become quite good, especially in indoor maps where LoS is easy to break. Shadow Step is the best boon (with the caveat that it's map-dependent), but a SWF can get plenty of use from Exponential if they keep the killer busy - and yes, I've seen this happen recently in my games, more than once.
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@DrBrain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757183#Comment_3757183
Current gen times are 90 seconds. Thats be fine in itself if this game was not a MMR matchmaking system and had a server list with open lobbies to hop in and out of to do pub matches. Im sure you are aware of this factor but once you reach top rank on Killer your experience in the high mmr meta is the gen rush 4 man comps. Now I am not against this or complaining specifically about this but lets do math. If say we look at the gen times chart for the amount of survivors on a gen without any perks or toolboxes we can see that just one extra person takes it from 90 seconds to 52.94 with a -15% efficiency penalty. However. Lets add in toolboxes and gen perks that remoce the penalty entirely. Just 1 survivor with gen perks and a toolbox and another without reduces the time to nearly 29 seconds. Put 3 survivors on it with at least 1 toolbox and 1 player with full party gen perks and you are looking at an easy 20 second gen. We are talking a drastic reduction in time. Your average Killer run times against competent players at high MMR is looking around 45 to 60 seconds if you do not get a lucky spotting and/or the comp team makes a mistake early on(which can 100% be corrected mid to late game).
if you run 1 player and down his within 60-80 seconds no matter how much pressure you apply. Without corrupt intervention on and without other gen slowdown perks for kicking or blocking you easily are looking at 2 gens minimum done within that timeframe(without deadlock which is slowly working its way to possible base kit status if we do not get corrupt intervention).
at this current time the only solution for high end MMR is to tunnel hard the first man out within 100 seconds minimum or face a 4 gen done deal unless you run a 4 perk gen block/slowdown build. Slugging comes second to this massive glaring problem. I havent even touched upon the 3 gen base kit kick blocks now that stop you from defending 3 gens permanently…
therefore, make Corrupt Intervention base kit just like Borrowed Time is now and the blocking of 3 gen meta us now. There is zero excuse not to do this and would completely make killers not hyper focused on tunneling out the first man they see as often as it is now. Killers are in a state of 1 strategy mode, tunneling. With slugging being the meme strat. This needs to change. It starts with gen speed and works it way down.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7TQJR5N7PKDA/img-5833.jpeg
I mean, I get this and understand this data in general, but from where I'm standing, the problem is that the solution you want to apply for high level problems applies to all levels of the game.
A fair portion of the userbase, if not most of them, will agree the game becomes survivor sided at high MMR and against comms. But the opposite is true at low levels, where survivors are more inefficient, don't know how to run tiles, waste resources, etc. The killer can already compete very well under those conditions - and data backs that up, because kill rates are higher at low MMR (iirc it was 38% escape rate as a low MMR solo vs 48% high MMR SWF?)
I have no qualms about giving the killer free corrupt when they load in against a 4stack with 4 BNPs, hyperfocus, overzealous, prove thyself, stake out, etc, but giving the killer free corrupt when they're up against 4 confused potatoes or even 4 mid-tier solos is not fair. And Corrupt is extra nasty in this regard because baby teammates are already bad at doing gens. When they can't find a gen at the start of the game, they're prone to wandering aimlessly and open chests or just hide. Solo queue is hard enough as it is when bad teammates are making minimal contributions, much less no contributions.
So while I do think gen speeds can be a problem, I think the way to address this is to either nerf the tools true genrushing SWF have, toolboxes and their perks and maybe even increasing inefficiency penalty… or, because all of those things on their own are quite weak (except BNP/commodious), to bridge the gap between solos and SWF to reduce their relative information advantage and then buff killers/nerf gens uniformly. But just buffing killers because things are bad at high MMR doesn't work - you shift the problem somewhere else. We saw this in patch 6.1 and it was utterly miserable to play before they rebalanced things and nerfed some of the meta killer perks at the time.
I suppose another idea would be to modify gen speeds based on MMR and number of grouped survivors, but that kind of system would require extensive testing.
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Because you have an ability that can instant kill healthy survivors on their first hook, and that's more insanely powerful than any other killer/addon ability in the game, so feeding Myers some burger king is part of the balance.
Run Play With Your Food and get stacks or try a different build. Tombstone Piece doesn't have the slowdown and doesn't take as long to charge (and is horribly overpowered as a result.)
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It's a real pity they dropped the auto-aim. It was a huge saving grace to console players and it's not like Hux gets loads of value for no effort. He'd still be one of the most resource-intensive killers to play, and there's already plenty of skill expression in knowing the right angles and locations and distances to set up his pods.
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@indieeden7 said:
Not a good perk, but certainly an unhealthy one.
Is it? Yeah, you can get moried on first hook, but I think there's two things that keep Rancor from being unhealthy.
One, if you're paying attention, the perk outright tells you that the killer has it, so you can prepare to hide when the last gen's about to pop, and lay low instead of yoloing gates. The killer can only camp one gate at a time.
Two, you have to have made it to the end of the match to be affected by the perk, so the usual no-hook mori problem of 'I didn't even get to play the game' doesn't apply. And while the perk incentivizes the killer to hunt you down at endgame, it also incentivizes them to leave you alone earlier in the match - it's not like OG Dying Light where it encourages a tunnelfest.
And once you start creating builds that allow it to hit multiple survivors and actually surprise people with the perk, you're in endgame build territory where the killer is dedicating most or all of their perk slots to something that won't even do anything unless they reach endgame.
It's a weird perk, but I think it's fine. Survivors aren't guaranteed an escape just because they made it to the end of the match. And it's so rare that it scarcely factors anyway.
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Your reasoning? I run Corrupt on certain killers (Trapper, Hag, Plague), but for the most part I don't feel it's necessary to win games or have strong starts. If gen speeds are a problem, nerf toolboxes - that's something that won't hurt lower level survivors disproportionately, which basekit Corrupt would.
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It's not exactly good, because it's one of those perks that's worthless unless you're losing and it doesn't extend the game like No Way Out… but it is loads of fun. You can combine it with obsession changing perks to have it proc on multiple survivors - Nemesis is the obvious one, you bait a pallet stun and Oops, All Moris.
One annoying side effect of Rancor is that it tips off the obsession that you have it - very obviously once endgame procs, but during the match they'll see your aura every time a gen is finished. So SWF will call it out and any obsession who isn't completely clueless is going to be ready to hide from you once endgame starts.
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I want him to have a rugged double-bladed battleaxe. Or a halberd. Knight's got such menacing visuals already, and some of the best cosmetics in the game, and I'd love to see what they could do in a few other directions.
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@Kjøttkaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757080#Comment_3757080
Are the maps going to be a bigger version in 2v8 or not? Why isn't it permanent?
I imagine if it were permanent, they'd have to focus more on balance and game health for the mode, which seems like a difficult juggling act when you already have to balance killers and survivor perks/items for SWF. Balancing everything for solo, SWF, and 2v8 compounds the issue. As it is, the game modes are treated like fun events than full additions to the game and its usual fairness (lights out was not much a success in that regard, and while my little oni was hilarious, that couldn't have stuck around for longer than it did.)
Bigger maps would be a good idea, though.
I'm glad to hear they plan on expanding the roster and returning to the mode, though! Appreciate the clarity.
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I'm really hoping that it's a trial run and they'll eventually add more killers to it. I understand where there are killer mechanics they'd be leery to put into 2V8, like Dredge or Plague or Oni or Freddy, and those would need rebalances if they're even possible… but the current selection doesn't excite me at all.
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CoH had to be nerfed and I won't defend it, but dang was survivor a breeze to play back then. Especially before they tanked medkits. Not having to rely on anyone else for heals felt good. …though. Being a Plague main may or may not have something to do with my tolerance of this period in time.
I miss old Coldwind quite a lot.
Though the only times I've not enjoyed the state of DBD was immediately post-6.1 when every other survivor was killing themselves on hook immediately, and original Skull Merchant (and by extension, Knight) with Eruption-CoB-Overcharge. That was brutal.
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Please no. Standing in front of the killer for thirty seconds spamming partway unhooks to bait them to swing was just stupid.
All this mechanic did was encourage camping. And it's not like survivors get free unhooks now, because if someone bullrushes the killer they're going to get hit on their way in and then hit after the unhook. (And if there's a mob of survivors bodyblocking each other, you likely couldn't get the grab anyway.) A trade progresses the killer's objective very favorably as long as they aren't camping and tunneling, whereupon the conditions become unfavorable - but wanting to be able to sit near the hook and get a 4k by punishing altruism is just greedy.
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As always, this thread is a lifesaver. Thank you for keeping us posted!
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Sounds good - I still have to buy Unknown and there's a few outfits I have my eye on. Thanks for the heads up!
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Hm. I'm not sure, honestly. I thought she was balanced before and didn't understand why she was buffed, but in my games I don't think the buffs have really changed how strong she feels or how I play against her. It feels the same as it always was, but she stops and reloads less.
My main complaint about Huntress is that she's very good at ignoring the anti-camp mechanic and she's attracted players who just want to proxy camp hooks, so there's a higher chance any given Huntress plays the game in an annoying way. But when she's not doing that, I haven't had complaints (that I didn't have before, her throwing fridges that hit you around corners has always been a problem.) VSed a P100 yesterday going for crossmaps and sniping people off gens and it was a blast; the player was clearly very skilled and I didn't make it out, but I never felt like I didn't have counterplay.
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Preach. There's already an exception for unhooking in Madness 3 and we've moved away from unhook denial in general with the removal of hook grabs, anti-camping, and many killers not being able to use their power near occupied hooks. This is clearly a relic.
Like, under normal gameplay this would just let Doctor get a free hit and that's not a problem, but with the right addons Herman can sit at the edge of the anticamp and essentially shock a hooked survivor to death. Bad gameplay.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756627#Comment_3756627
Only buffing her to 115 would make minimal difference since she is still chasing as a m1 killer. You should remember that Trapper is already 115 and even faster with the speed boost.
Large maps are a major issue. Play on Badham or Borgo and you will immediately understand.
Hag's power is way better than Trapper's, though. It's much harder to avoid in chase, it's harder to see, she always has it on hand and doesn't have to collect them, she has more of them, there's no RNG involved, she can use it for map mobility as well as hits and instantly return to a hook or gen.
The only things Trapper has over Hag, besides being a 115, is that he can get a down on a healthy survivor if they walk into his traps while he's close, and if they're not close (which is an issue he and Hag both share), they'll lose a health state. In her net, though, Hag is much deadlier than Trapper and making her a 115 would only amplify that.
I don't think it's right to say she chases as an M1 killer because Hag has zoning and loop denial. She puts down a trap, you have to leave. Trapper can do this too, but he can only carry two traps at a time; Hag can keep doing it even when she's run out of traps. And because of her anti-loop, holding W away from her net, out in the open, is often the survivor's best bet - but buffing her to 115 removes that. She's meant to catch up to you by you running into another one of her traps. If she can chase normally and turn every relevant tile into a nope zone, she'd be pretty busted.
Map size is a problem for every setup killer, it's just how they work. They're meant to give up part of the map and focus on a smaller area.