Krazzik
Krazzik
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I mean playing DBD at a high level is miserable in general. It's genrush vs tunnelling which isn't fun for anyone.
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I've not really seen many killers DC but is it a problem if they do? This forum seems heavily in favour of survivors DCing if they're not having fun, why is it bad for killers to do so?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615463#Comment_3615463
Do you mean the 6.1 buffed Eruption that left survivors incapacitated for 30s? Because even the devs agreed that was ridiculous and pretty much got rid of Incapacitated after that.
Also, no one complained about STBFL. In fact, when the devs announced they were reworking it people were asking why when no one had seen any complaints about it. So not a fan of this sudden 'survivors complained so it's getting reworked' narrative, when everyone agreed initially that there were zero complaints. Suddenly there were? News to me...
Yes, the 6.1 Eruption. I completely agree that it was too much, I was just stating that both survivors and killers complain about good perks.
And after the 6.1 buff that basically gave all killers 2 stacks of STBFL basekit I saw quite a few threads complaining about every killer now bringing STBFL and how they need to nerf it. I'll admit I've seen less of them over the past couple months but in the immediate aftermatch of the 6.1 patch there was a lot of people unhappy with STBFL.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616036#Comment_3616036
Calm Spirit still doesn't disturb crows
And thats why Distortion doesnt need a nerf, because it has that risk
Then why does it even have charges? I run Distortion on many of my survivors and I have almost never actually run out of charges, you just regain them too quickly for even multiple aura-reading perks to burn through.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
Tbh I’d be pissed if they hid prestige because atp what is the point of prestiging a survivor past 9? No one can see and no one will know so what’s it even matter, it’ll be like having a high player level and devotion aka just another meaningless number
They'll still be able to see in the endgame screen.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615839#Comment_3615839
Whats the compensation for when the killer has no aura reading powers?
That's the risk of bringing a perk like that. Same as Calm Spirit.
I would say though that knowing the killer has no aura reading is in itself useful info to have too.
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If someone blows up the gen I'm on then I'll usally give em a couple of bags before carrying on. I expect the same when I mess up.
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Thankfully I don't go against them very often but when I do I simply can't do anything in chase. Even if I don't drop the pallet and immediatly try and run to the side, the tail still gets me. Nemmy at least has a bit of time to get his whip ready, and that gives you a bigger window to get behind cover, but the tail doesn't need to be 'readied', and you pretty much have to AVOID pallets completely.
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Most people don't like voice chat and the majority of people in solo queue would have it turned off, especially if it was opt-in, which it would need to be.
Solo queue would basically be the same as it is now, your teammates will still ignore information and do their own thing and usually make bad decisions and die early.
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As I've said in other threads, I do think it's needs to be a little slower to regain stacks. As it currently stands you almost never actually run out of stacks, even against a killer using multiple aura reading perks/addons.
It defeats the point in even having stacks when it's basically just a permanent buff in nearly every game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615397#Comment_3615397
Undying got complaints because it was legitimately too strong. Spirit got complaints because there was no counterplay. NOED got complaints because there was no counterplay.
They didn't get complaints because they got picked. NOED and Spirit weren't even 'meta'.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615406#Comment_3615406
No, because Eruption didn't last that long. Windows of Opportunity has overtaken it by now.
Agree to disagree I guess. I saw insane numbers of threads and tweets about Eruption, far more than all the complaints about WoO combined.
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While I do think Distortion should be tweaked so that charges actually matter, I don't think Calm Spirit is an issue at all. It was a dead perk that's only been made relavent due to how busted UW is.
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If all the survivors grab tapes at the start of the match, then Sadako can't just spam teleport, she -has- to chase people.
The biggest issue is that many survivors either don't bother getting tapes, or wait too long before getting a tape. Some people will go do a gen and only bother with tapes after they start getting condemned, but by that point, a spamming Sadako will have switched most of the TVs off, and is much more likely to just teleport to one that you're about to grab a tape from.
You NEED to grab a tape ASAP and hope the other three survivors are doing so as well. This also screws over Sadako so that she can't teleport to gens people are working on to interupt them either, she's gotta just walk from gen to gen.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615349#Comment_3615349
It kind of is though. Camping and tunnelling will get complained about, but general killer perks and kits don't get nearly as many complaints, with the exception of Blight's add-ons.
Meanwhile, there's a new WoO nerf thread every week. I haven't seen any calls for gen-kick nerfs in months. The last time I can remember that gen-kick was complained about was Eruption enforcing a 25 second 'do nothing' time-out every time someone got hooked.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615358#Comment_3615358
No, it's not 'equally guilty'. Windows of Opportunity has had more complaint threads than STBFL, Eruption and Aura-reading combined. And the complaints aren't even always calls for nerfs, just reworks to sidestep an issue with interactivity while preserving power. Eruption imposed 25 second thumb-twiddling and STBFL is being used to camp. I don't think I've even seen complaints about aura-reading perks other than Ultimate Weapon circumventing Distortion, the perk whose one singular job it is to protect from those perks.
And still, Windows of Opportunity is higher on the list to complain about, in general, with the primary argument being pickrate. Not that it's frustrating to go against, or unbalanced or anything of the sort, no. Just pickrate.
Survivors are using it, therefor it is busted.
Old Eruption had FAR more complaints about it than WoO has ever had.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615324#Comment_3615324
It should also be accompanied by buffing many of the lesser-used perks
Here's the problem though: We're not seeing these buffs, and we're not going to get them, either. Survivor perks have been on a downward trend where anything that is slightly above any of the established perks will be cut down.
Windows of Opportunity is, in terms of balance, a completely blank slot. It does nothing for the overall balance of the game. It is STILL being complained about by killer players.
Survivor perks doing things that benefit the survivors is considered a problem. You're not going to be able to expand the meta if every perk becomes the next scapegoat for why a killer lost a match. What would you want to buff? Healing, and have killers complain healing goes too fast? Boons, and have killers complain that boons can't be permanently broken? Item searching perks, and have killers complain about flashy saves and toolboxes? Stealth, and have killers complain that survivors are hiding too much?
Those same things are said about killer perks too, and I'm saying that this is something that should be done on both sides. Survivors widely complain about gen slowdown, but when killers moved to use much more aura-reading/info perks, survivors then complained about being found too easily. Even when killers actually started to use chase perks, mainly STBFL, that then got complained about and is on the chopping block.
This is something that both sides are equally guilty of so please don't try and make it an 'us vs them' arguement.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615049#Comment_3615049
To go back to the adage from Warframe: There will always be a Draco.
That is to say, you can nerf the currently most-picked thing, but something else will then become the new most-picked thing. Which will then be considered too strong because 'they wouldn't pick it if it wasn't!'.
If you keep going down this path, you're legitimately heading for 'a survivor perk does something = nerf it' territory. Not everything needs to be an Autodidact, No Mither or Potential Energy.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615259#Comment_3615259
Oh my god, it actually IS that guy. Again.
Players complain about seeing the same perks every game. Killers and survivors, no one likes a stale meta and having low variety in what they face. WoO has been -the- most popular survivor perk for months now and I think we can safely assume that if nothing is changed about it, it will continue to be at the number 1 spot for a long time.
Also, it's not just a case of only nerfing the most used perks every so often. It should also be accompanied by buffing many of the lesser-used perks, so that the overall power level of perks doesn't shift too much. It's to allow other perks with different mechanics to shine and to help breathe new life into the game.
This is also not a survivor-only thing, I think perks like Pain Res, Corrupt and Deadlock should be tuned down too and other, weaker killer perks buffed so that we see fresh new loadoats.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614763#Comment_3614763
If a killer is so hated that people complained that much about it, then the removal is deserved and its a good precedent to set, since by its very definition everyone would be happy that their complaints got a horribly designed killer removed.
But not EVERYONE hates Skull Merchant. Many people genuinely enjoy her, and many other survivors at the very least have other killers they hate even more than SM.
Removing killers just because they're really unpopular is not a good idea. Because then people would just be even more vocal about hating the killers they don't like to try and get them deleted.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615049#Comment_3615049
I typically like your takes Krazzik but the problem with the ‘it’s too strong!’ argument for perks like WoO is that these perks rise to fill a vacuum left by the nerfing of other, more useful perks. WoO doesn’t do anything for survivors that they cannot do without the perk and killers actually have a direct perk equivalent (Zanshin Tactics) they refuse to run.
There’s always going to be a mediocre survivor perk (I never see this argument leveraged against mediocre killer perks so I can’t say both but if it happens feel free to correct me) that’s ‘too strong’ in some player’s eyes. If it wasn’t WoO it would be some other middle of the road perk that survivors receive non-situational value from.
Not every perk survivors have should be hyper situational. Some of them should be good *and* general.
There are still other really strong survivor perks in the game: Sprint Burst, Adren, Deliverance, Off the Record. Heck, many of the best survivor perks are on free characters, and they are STILL run less than WoO. Even with many newer players not even having access to it, it's still run so much that it's been in the number one spot for ages.
It's overwhelming use can't just be a case of "other strong perks are getting nerfed so a decent perk is gonna rise to fill that hole" when it's run MORE than perks like Sprint Burst and Adren.
And as I mentioned before, even if you find that it's perfectly fine and not too strong, for the sake of not having a stale meta, it should STILL be changed.
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It sucks because he's probably going to be killswitched for quite some time now that the devs are all home for the holidays.
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@GeneralV said:
I don't know because, well, I don't have him.
But playing against him isn't that fun due to remnant being used mid-chase. If he had only the teleport to lockers and nightfall, he would be awesome to go against, because his concept is really good.
His remnant mechanic is basically his antiloop. If that was removed then survivors could just loop him like any other regular m1 killer. As a form of antiloop it's still much easier to play against than Artist's crows and Pyramid Head's M2, and around longer loops it's really hard to use effectivelly anyway.
I understand you've not played him so you only have the survivor perspective but the stats themselves show that even with his remnant he's still mid-tier at best. Removing that would send him down to hang out with Trapper, Myers and Freddy.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615031#Comment_3615031
You think a ~30% pickrate is absurdly high? Were you not around when DH had nearly a 60% pickrate? Also, nerfing because of pickrate is not a good reason to nerf.
It's not only because WoO has the highest pick rate by a decent amount. You need to realise that the most popular perks are heavily weighted toward universal perks, and unlockable perks from free characters. This makes sense because newer players will only have access to those perks, so their pick rate is always going to be much higher.
Last time we got data from BHVR I believe that 8 out of the 10 most popular survivor perks were 'free' perks, with the only DLC perks being WoO and MFT. MFT was pretty widely acknowledged as being OP, and was rightly changed, but WoO was STILL picked more than that. WoO has also been the most picked survivor perk for quite some time now, and I mean it does go to show that it's simply too strong.
It isn't as obviously OP as perks in the past like DH and MFT, it doesn't make survivors faster or allow them to do anything they otherwise wouldn't be able to do normally. However, being able to always see where nearby windows and pallets are is clearly incredibly strong or else so many people wouldn't run the perk. It allows even bad loopers to be decent in chase and allows decent loopers to be much stronger in chase.
I don't think it's particularly 'unhealthy' like many overtuned perks in the past, but I do believe it needs some kind of change.
BHVR has shown in the past that they don't like stale metas and they want to force change, which is something many players agree with. It only makes sense that the number 1 most picked survivor perk for months and months will get tuned down to allow other perks to get the spotlight.
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Plenty of people who run Windows -don't- just run from pallet to pallet pre-dropping.
Plenty of people who don't run Windows DO just from from pallet to pallet pre-dropping.
Now I do think Windows should be changed due to it's absurdly high pick-rate, but dropping loads of pallets isn't a good reason.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614907#Comment_3614907
oh no, I gotta quit playing DBD because I heavily dislike 1 of the 30+ killers in the game… shucks…
You're putting words in my mouth now. You can dislike her as much as you want, god knows there's plenty of killers I hate playing against. So long as you don't just give up straight away and you actually play the match out you're good.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614763#Comment_3614763
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1043741486828761158/1187291824860180501/data-chart-final.jpg
blob:https://forums.bhvr.com/5e177935-0a2f-4c0c-b205-81c98d6026a2
A poll of 1,000 players showing she has over an 80% dislike rate. That is a large enough polling group to assume that trend would continue, and can call the dislike for dull merchant majority held.
Oooh I've not seen this. I'd still be skeptical that she's -the- most disliked killer, especially since other killers like Trickster and Knight are, even in these results, so close to her as well.
Regardless it doesn't really matter how disliked she is, BHVR is never, nor should they ever outright delete a killer. They already reworked her so she's much better than she was, and they'll likely continue to give her some small tweaks to help her feel better to play against in future.
If you -really- hate SM -that- much that you simply refuse to even play a game against her, you shouldn't really be playing DBD to be honest.
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I quite enjoy playing Dredge, I think his main issue is just that he's the most map-dependant killer in the game.
Get Midwich and you're fine, get Swamp and you're screwed. The difference in strength simply due to RNG is huge. Even most decent maps for him will usually have one or two gens with no lockers nearby.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614467#Comment_3614467
I must admit, when it comes to this killer, I do not care. 🫠
I would send her away in a heartbeat. She’s the least enjoyable killer in the game, and that’s a majority held opinion.
While it's certainly a popular opinion you can't just say it's a majority held opinion without actually polling a decent amount of the playerbase.
Also they're obviously never going to outright remove a killer as that sets a terrible precedent, people can complain about any killer enough and eventually they'd get removed.
Also SM has and has always had a higher pick rate than a bunch of other killers in the game. Should we just delete less-picked killers because they're clearly not very popular either?
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I mean on a god pallet or just a really strong pallet that the killer has to break, yeah, it gives you even more distance. The problem is that most of the strong killers can play around most dropped pallets or can catch up quickly even after the slowdown.
It's yet another perk that's strongest against weak killers.
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Bit unfair for the players who enjoy her.
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Only change I've noticed is the near-useless breakable wall upstairs is now pre-broken. Pointless change though, the survivor still has plenty of time to just vault.
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Realistically if matchmaking was working and reliably putting you against equally skilled players, then no, it's should be almost impossible to have winstreaks of even 30+ let alone the 100+ that some people boast.
If you're always bringing the absolute strongest addons and map offerings and sweating every game, that's obviously going to give you an edge, but then you'd just go up in MMR so you were going against survivors who are doing the same thing.
You'd have to literally be among the BEST players in the entire game, so that the matchmaker simply couldn't find players of your skill level to put you against.
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Tunnelling is miserable to play against and I do think the devs need to do something to make it less effective. The issue is that's much easier said than done.
With how hooks and hook-states work, there's not a whole lot they can really do to stop the killer just going after the same survivor again and again, and I doubt BHVR is gonna want to change something so fundamental to the game and risk losing players because of it.
Also, any change to essentially 'remove' tunnelling would cause kill rates to absolutely plummet across the board, and such a change would need to be accompanied with drastic killer buffs to offset this. Killers would need to be able to end chases much faster than they can now, or gens would need to take much longer than they do now, neither change would be well received by survivor players.
The only suggestion I've seen that might work is to make a survivor invincible and have no collision after being unhooked. This effect would end after performing a conspicuous action, or after another survivor is hooked.
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I do think it wouldn't take a crazy amount of work if they just offered a recoloured version of legacy for getting to p100. For the characters who had legacy it's barely any work on their part to just recolour it, and while there's heaps of characters who never had legacy, it's literally just a tweaked version of their default cosmetic.
Just change the Blight coom to purple and there ya go. A different recolour still makes the original legacy skins special while allowing a cool reward for people who put the time into p100.
Also, BHVR saying that a p100 reward would give people FOMO is just stupid. p100 isn't going anywhere, it's a permanently-available goal that anyone can do at their own pace if they want to.
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I mean I do think they could shake up the bloodweb and what you can send BP on. Once you've played the game long enough you have plenty of items, offerings and addons on all your characters and earning and spending BP just becomes completely hollow.
I barely even look at what's on the web and just press auto-spend every time. I may look out for puddings/cakes and BPS but again, why bother increasing BP earned when there's nothing to spend it on.
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I mean I think it's a valid way of playing the game. We wouldn't have Resilience in the game if the devs didn't want staying-injured to be something you can do and be rewarded for it.
Back before MFT got nerfed you could argue there was a bit too much reward for staying injured but now I think it's fine. If you're injured you risk the killer getting an easy hit and hook, and even if you run early, your chase is still gonna be shorter than if you'd healed. Also makes playing stealthy much harder.
I mean people aren't staying injured because it's strong, it's not. Even with Resilience and MFT/Dead Hard most survivors would be better off in chase if they'd started healthy. They're only staying injured because healing is slower.
Overall I'd say the staying-injured meta is better for killers than the CoH + busted medkit meta.
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People keep saying Singularity is good for 3-genning but I don't see it. I've even tried it myself before but EMPs can just break it too easily. I guess he's slightly better than most killers at it but he's not particularly great.
Skull Merchant is still pretty good. If survivors don't play against her in a particular way she can still be REALLY good at it, but good survivors can shut it down more easily than before.
Doctor is solid since in a 3-gen situation his AoE is gonna be hitting everyone and madness will be building pretty quickly that Snapping Out Of It becomes good slowdown.
Hag is good, even if they're wiping her traps away that's good slowdown, and if they aren't you'll be actually getting hits every now and then so the game shouldn't drag on for as long.
As always you'll want to try and get survivors to use up all the pallets around the 3-gen as early as you can, so that when they actually try and break it, they'll have far fewer resources to help them.
As far as I know the standard gen-kick build is still the best 3-gen build out there even with the nerfs.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612772#Comment_3612772
They said it in the past. I would have to search for it tho.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612779#Comment_3612779
Yeaaah... At some point the Killer also has to risk losing the game. Same as Survivors, who also have to risk to die when they want to repair Gens.
I agree it's a crappy situation. Depending on how many survivors are left, it can be impossible for the survivors to realistically pressure the gens and even doing gens becomes a deathwish, or if all 4 survivors are still up, actually starting a chase is basically admitting defeat as the killer. It's no surprise neither side wants to basically throw the game, but sadly NOT throwing the game just stops anything happening.
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@Toaster427 said:
Except they've never once said that a killer standing by a 3 gen is "holding the game hostage". In fact I'm pretty sure they said the opposite of that. Why weren't all those 3 gen skull merchants banned then when it was going on?
This is why thier comments make zero sense.
So a killer can do nothing but stand there preventing the game from progressing all they want with zero risk of being banned, but a survivor who chooses to play smart and not just throw themselves on the ground to be killed can be banned....wow that makes so much sense! 🙄
Because when a killer is guarding a 3-gen, they're still trying to kill the survivors, but they won't commit to long chases because they'll lose the last gen. This means they'll be looking for easy hits and downs, but if the survivors are playing really safe and run early, the killer isn't going to get any easy hits. It basically falls to the survivors to mess up and allow the killer the hit/down.
The killer still -wants- to kill the survivors, but is very picky on when they'll actually commit to short chases if they can get a hit. If the opportunity falls into their lap they'll take it.
Survivors who wont even attempt to do gens though, that stops the game progressing completely.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612488#Comment_3612488
The tunneling has been absolutely rampant lately. Don’t know what it is.
I mean we know why it happens, because it's the strongest way for a killer to play. As long as that remains the case, most killers will do it.
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Midwich easily, though the other indoor maps are close.
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@CLHL said:
If you can keep your chases under 30 seconds, you don't need any regression perk to begin with. I agree with your point of view, but for me that's a problem, these perks should slow down the game and not make your stomping stronger.
That's simply false. If survivors are actually focusing on gens, fast chases aren't enough. I can find and end chases pretty quickly on my Huntress but without any gen slowdown, gens pop quickly anyway.
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I mean in two of those screenshots you're way too close to the hook and even in the second you've no way of knowing if another survivor was too close instead. Also it takes a while for the bar to fill, so by the time you got far enough away, it was probably too late for the bar to fill fully before they just died.
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It's funny how when they announced the Pain Res 'nerf', almost every killer player said the perk was dead and unusable. Fast forward to now and it's STILL the strongest gen regression perk in the game by a mile and is run by most killers.
I do think it needs to be tuned down, it's absolutely miserable to play against in some games because 25% regression for the killer just doing what they're supposed to be doing anyhow is pretty crazy.
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I keep saying that this is what happens when survivors actually do gens. Weirdly enough the game isn't actually balanced around survivors efficiently doing gens.
And yeah in many games, especially at lower MMR that's fine. People are doing archives, they're messing around teabagging at each other, they're hiding in lockers or behind rocks the second they hear the terror radius, or they're simply spending time looking for gens.
The moment 4 survivors focus on doing gens as efficiently as possible though, they time unhooks well and don't spend needless time hanging around waiting for the killer, they get right back on gens the second the killer leaves them, they know where all the gens tend to spawn and beeline for another the moment they finish one, then gens just pop really quickly.
This isn't even an issue of toolboxes or perks, you can have 4 survivors not bring anything that speeds gens up, they need only actually focus on doing gens quickly and balance kinda falls apart.
Not much BHVR can do about it though because if they make gens take longer basekit, then solo queue is even more miserable. Gens can take an age to complete as it is in certain games.
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I got it back when boons were still meta and I thiiink it was before the Ruin nerf?
Even nowadays you'll get it eventually, but yes it'll be much slower as Hexes are in a pretty bad place.
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Even streamers with years of experience still occasionally miss skill checks. They also allow for perks on either side to reward skill checks more or to make them harder. And skill check Doctor DOES mess many people up.
Also gens would be even more boring without them.
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@Rudjohns said:
this game is so well designed, that a killer with Knock Out, Sloppy Butcher and some other combinations, and never hooking a survivor, its like 5x easier to get a 4k than actually playing the game as intended
I doubt that, given that Knock Out is an incredibly rare perk to see anyone using. If slugging all four survivors in order to win was actually strong, you'd see it more.
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FYI, I got the question despite stating I ONLY play the game on PC. The questionaire even acknowledged I only play on a single platform, though I did say I own multiple platforms.
And yeah I assume most people that really want cross progression would be fine having to buy the characters again if it meant they kept prestige levels, perks, items and cosmetics.
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I use Whispers on most of my killers. I know there are better alternatives and Whispers still messes me up at times but I just really like it.
I forced myself to use Discordance on a few others and that's so much better in many situations but I still just love Whispers so much.
Also, when I shut the hatch and gotta patrol gates, nothing is better than Whispers. I've only ever lost like two survviors through gates ever with it.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610430#Comment_3610430
Nice drawing I know that artist not personally but seen their art around.
Edit: Kinda just realized your the artist after going to your profile so egg on my face.
Yeah that artist is amazing I love her :3
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After her changes she's not much better at 3-genning than some other killers. The biggest problem is that so many survivors give up against her, and if even one of your teammates does that, it's over, but that's not a problem with the killer itself.
As annoying as she can still be, she's much better than she was, but so many players don't even wanna learn how to play against her rework and just give up.