Kind_Lemon
Kind_Lemon
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not looking forward to graphics that tank my framerate and imo feel worse than 2016 DbD graphics (with cool lighting).
I love playing against PC Huntress (not a fan of the lullaby vagueness on several maps tho), and I'm glad you've gotten this experience too.
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I've blocked survivors in a corner twice with huntress and watched as the hatchets broke on their bodies without any injuries.
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This should be the effect of that new, poorly designed hex perk that moves around hex totems instead of what it does currently. See other posts for arguments.
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I don't like him because he's anti-stealth and anti-escape-chase playstyle. It's a whole lot of denying other people's playstyles rather than anything like challenging people's playstyles (and the latter of the aforementioned playstyles is already heavily punished by almost every killer).
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@OllieHellhunter said:
Devour hope either gets taken out before you get any use or carries the game, there's no in between. I honestly just want them to make totem spawns more consistent, idc if it on average makes them harder or easier to find, theres some spots way too open and others way too hidden
ever since I've started religiously using Devour Hope on Huntress, I've started getting some in-betweens (eg it's cleansed after I've gotten one or two downs at three stacks or it's cleansed after I've gotten my first mori and no one else is dead).
@OP I didn't at first realize how much map awareness was critical when keeping your totems alive, but it is, and Whispers helps out a whole lot with that.
Also, you need this!:
@Kind_Lemon said:
Totems
Totem spawns have been for quite some time (this has died down somewhat recently) the subject of a heated playerbase's ire. The history of totems has been difficult, and some of the more memorable highlights were lighthouse totems on hills, totems spawning in the middle of open fields, and totems spawning in LOS of survivors. The developers, since the introduction of totems, have hand-chosen totem spawns, and this post aims to finally break that tradition. Coming from a comment from one of the developers about being unsure if cleansing totems he had placed himself was cheating (humorously stated), I realized that the next step for totem placement was to give the choice to the killer player in each match. Now, this does bring up a series of necessary, complimentary changes that would be needed to shift from developer-placed to player-placed totems, but this post is going to cover all potential issues and pose solutions to each one of them.
The killer receives five dull totems at the start of every match. This is coded into every killer's power, so that just like how GhostFace's crouch is designed, totem placement requires an unused button and is completely optional. The killer may at any point in the trial place down a dull totem (Default E key) directly in front of the killer's own position (this fuctionality is similar to how The Trapper places traps, and this ability includes placing totems inside the basement). Pressing the (E) button again when within 24 meters of the totem will apply the first Hex perk positioned in the killer's loadout (as chosen before loading into the trial). Totems cannot be within 24 meters of one another (cylinder) and take a total of 2 seconds to place into the environment. Consider a summoning from the ground animation (like Freddy's snares).
These changes prevent totems from being too close together, addresses how this ability might function through killer UI, and also (negligeably) provides a potential way for killers to lure survivors (through dull totems) away from objectives.
What this means for NOED
All Hex perks may need to be slightly modified to compensate for this new mechanic, but NOED (and Haunted Grounds) is going to receive special attention in this section. NOED will can no longer be prevented prior to the final gen's completion. Instead, if there is not already a dull totem within 24 meters of the killer, the killer will first have to go through a slowdown and a 2 second animation before lighting the totem, at which point nearby survivors will have a heads up on NOED. This does mean that a killer could hook down a survivor, hook the survivor, and then place the totem right in front of the hook, but scenarios like that already effectively exist currently and do not comprise the majority of experiences with NOED. In the case that this is an issue, the NOED hex might receive a timer and only be able to be applied to a totem for the first 30 seconds following the last gen's completion.
For Haunted Grounds, the hex will not apply to a totem until there are at least two dull totems on the map with the killer within 24 meters of one of them.
Design
Having the playerbase choose their own totem spawns will always ensure that totem spawns are changing from trial to trial and prevents the developers from wasting time and resources on just moving around totem spawns to make finding totems a little harder for players. Additionally, where a killer places his/her totem now carries more meaning and requires more game knowledge and removes any frustration that may arise from particularly bad RNG.
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Keepers
I don't like playing against Trapper now, but I used to (before his buffs).
I liked playing against Wraith before his buffs, but I like playing as him more now.
I used to like playing against and as Hillbilly until the devs added the stupid roar (and nerfed him).
I used to like playing against and as Nurse before they gutted her fun potential for players with low framerates and with high mouse sensitivitiy.
I like everything about Myers (except for how the devs did tier one Myers dirty in regards to Undetectable)
Hag is bae except that dedicated servers makes her frustrating oftentimes. I've had fun and not-so-fun games against Hags, but that's mostly determined by the use of slowdown perks or not.
Love Huntress. Don't love hitboxes. The developers saying its latency is a complete lie. None of the hatchets that hit/don't hit when they should do the opposite happen because of latency especially because often the survivor isn't moving when I throw them.
Don't really like Pig, but I like the RBT idea.
Liked Bubba more before his rework.
Spirit....ehhh...I have fun, but that's probably because I only see lower ranked Spirits around.
Axed
Doctor's chase music is so unappealing to have to listen to while being in the same match as him. I also liked using his power much more before his rework. He's just so boring now...
Freddy's teleporting, lunge, and snares all earn him a spot here.
Clown's a good candidate for being a keeper, but I had to put some I liked in the axe category to fit the post.
Ugh to everything about Legion, especially the breathing sounds.
I like either not being injured or not facing a killer who's practically unstoppable when near her. I also like stealth, and none of that is possible in your regular match against The Plague.
GhostFace is a knockoff of Wraith and Myers. Also his reveal zone sucks. Almost had an epiphany about how much time I wasted playing DbD because of him.
Demogorgon would be nice if his animations weren't so strange.
Oni would be nice if it actually looked like he hit you with his power and if he couldn't track stealthing injured survivors so easily (also, his animations when moving to the hook are disturbing).
Facing Deathslinger as survivor means: Find gen. Run after his small terror radius gets close and you hear the unlikable music. Get shot because good Deathslingers basically never miss. Get hooked. See the slow down perks come into effect. Decide the match is not worth your time and enter third hook state.
Pyramid Head doesn't bother me except for invisible trails on the ground sometimes that ruin all of my planning in avoiding them prior. Thx bad coding.
Summary
I don't like killers that prevent planning on my part, and I really don't like killers with unfitting music and/or bad animations.
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My issue with the perks is that they are in place of a proper, base game fix for things like survivors one-tapping to prevent regression and survivors sometimes finding totems too easily. The other perk (that I haven't mentioned) I also have issues with, mainly because it reduces scenarios where survivors use pallets inefficiently and rarely affects survivors who properly use their speed boost post-hit.
It all seems like bad design.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
I don't think they are 'obsessed' with it or that it is 'overused'. it just comes across that way BECAUSE so many run things like ruin or such, making it as annoying as you state.
But having done the 'hit 5 exposed survivors' challenge from the tome, I found it's actually pretty hard to get. Noed is more or less the only surefire way. but even that requires certain work from the killer.
Blight, however, is a gamebreaker as it seems to be right now.
know how one trapper tactic on high ranks is to guard a 3 gen, let the survivors have the others, and trap said 3 gen to then pick them off?
I can see this happen with Blight, just worse.
Every other thing that applies exposed requires some work and gives some decent chance to the survivors. Blight's thing doesn't.
I just used Myers and Devour Hope with Huntress. I got it in one game, but I played two games because I was enjoying myself and hadn't noticed it was already done.
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No Mither should be effective against Oni, but like it's BHVR, sooooo
@Elena said:
What if it was a SWF that ran No Mither and it was against an Oni, that would really break him.
The only change that is needed to make No Mither not completely neuter Oni is:
The Oni gains 5% blood after downing an injured survivor.
Problem solved; The Oni can still use his power but at a reduced rate because he was unlucky in one, very rare match.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561639#Comment_1561639
You have to see how taking away the exhaustion aspect of BL would break it in chases - especially in conjunction with an exhaustion perk. Given the right map (you guessed it: Haddonfield), it's right back to an infinite status.
yes; this change is prime PTB material so that we can see how it affects things.
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@CalamityJane said:
I dislike your suggestion around add on retention. Survival keeps add ons but the killer only keeps add ons if they get a 4k.
That is very skewed, a survival is a win for a survivor, but a 4k is above and beyond a win for a killer. Losing a survivor to the hatch because you didn't go full tryhard and slug everyone until you found it isn't a loss, it's still a win.
It would also cause an even greater divide between add ons. If you base retention on kills, then 'good' add ons help you get a lot of kills so you keep them. Iridescent Heads and Infantry Belt would be very difficult to lose, meaning their ultra and very rare status are both redundant because as long as you don't suck, you never run out.
I completely understand. I felt the same way too, but this post was written originally as a rough draft and I never went back to modify it. I wanted a solution that was based off of "rewarding players for doing well", but that can cause a host of problems, so I've added my alternate solution in my first comment.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560030#Comment_1560030
That's way too much UI work for such a small gain. There are very few perks where you would want to run a different tier.
Having a perk leveling system separate from the bloodweb would not only solve this somewhat niche problem but would also solve the issue of people's frustration with a daunting grind, the issue with too-quick add-on gain, and the overall bloodweb economy.
i.e. this:
This allows for so much more to be done to the bloodweb without worrying about the perk situation. The locked perks can be found on the bloodweb but only for tier 1. Past that, every perk is leveled here.
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nah, fam. Yours is just okay. I want:
Every survivor further away than 28/26/24 meters from the Obsession suffers from a 19/22/25% speed penalty on all applicable actions. The Obsession performs altruistic actions 42/46/50% faster.
It encourages The Obsession to find survivors (other survivors can use the Whispers technique to find Obsession) and encourages the killer to push the Obsession away from other survivors (giving rise to the special killer-survivor Obsession interaction that is (or at least should be) the keystone of the Obsession mechanic). It also creates good synergy with PWYF.
This is true to the core of Dying Light.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560759#Comment_1560759
It has the opposite effect on me, and im sure Im not alone. Of course im looking around while doing gens (thats 101), but when i know the killer has something that makes them undectable im much more focused on it than normal.
I guess that's true? I mean, I totally understand it, I just don't think "The Wraith effect" should really be labeled a new mechanic in any meaningful fashion. When I'm against a Mirror Myers, I tend to fling my mouse around when on a generator back and forth to avoid being grabbed lol. That's about the only time my senses are heightened because of a lack of terror radius, and that was true before both of the aforementioned status effects were implemented. With Pig and Ghostface, I just position my camera slightly differently (for best Ghostface reveal spot) and resign myself to getting hit if I'm in a non-open space.
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it's 18 meters, but going against Deathslinger sucks. I have boatloads more fun going against a Nurse that kills everyone in less than 3 minutes (and doesn't have infectious fright or terrible ping). His music also sucks because while objectively and on its own it's okay, but it affects gameplay badly.
Not sure if a lullaby is the right answer, but I might be able to get behind that. idk.
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@Dpooly said:
@Xbob42 Yes, it's happened several times to me.
@Kind_Lemon Sure it'll follow a path to an extent, but it is random too other than the perk spaces when you unlock another perk space. I've been playing for 3 years and must have gone through hundreds if not thousands of bloodwebs. Agreed that their 'spaghetti code' does hiccup though and that's most likely the reason for it.
I've played since before Pig (is that almost three years? idk), and I've grown to be able to determine what node is going to be consumed in seemingly random situations 75% of the time (the first node is always kind of opposite, but that's the only one that I never have any idea until the Entity bubble first shows up). The Entity tends to take the node directly to the right or to the left of the outermost node it took to enter the bloodweb. It skips nodes occasionally, and I think this is influenced by rarity. Otherwise, the Entity will always proceed inwards, taking the least rare node it can unless that leads it on a path to a conjunction (then it will take the rarer node even if it also leads toward a conjunction). The Entity is designed to minimize lost nodes by consuming the least amount it can on every move.
Fun tip: you can tell which junction is more expensive oftentimes from the way the entity moves!
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560714#Comment_1560714
When i said corrupted I was talking about tge effect PH applies.
Both oblivious and undetectable 100% engage both sides. If youre not paying closer attention to your surroundings youre doing it wrong. It also is irrelevant to my main point, youre complaining that theyre making money while:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F3XYC89OFBW8/screenshot-20200822-004434-chrome.jpg
They have improved the game in a lot of ways that I listed. And theres nothing wrong with them making money while doing so. Im not saying theyre perfect, we both know they arent and sometimes I wonder where their priorities are, but its not fair to say theyve done nothing
ah, my bad. That wasn't really meant to be a comment about their money-making plans (though I guess it ended up being one? in a very vague sense?). It was just one about design philosophy and the methods behind upkeeping a live game.
Undetectable and Oblivious definitely don't increase interactivity. Survivors already mainly use their eyes for detecting a killer. Survivors are merely assisted by audio on nearly all maps. But your point is starting to make less sense to me, because by removing one sensory organ from the equation, doesn't that decrease interactivity and immersion in the game? It's not like you can effectively look harder when you're looking for the first sign of the killer anyway (because again, sound is usually the second warning of a killer. Quick note: streamers are a completely different beast, and the game shouldn't be balanced around their attention because they tend to pay less attention to the game). *
Didn't realize you meant tormented there. Tormented is 99% likely not to appear with any other killer because of how the effect is a major part of Pyramid Head's power. If other killers could apply the effect and send survivors to cages, it would be a new mechanic, but since the design of the cages, the trails, and Pyramid Head's ranged attack are all reminiscent of one another, it's nigh impossible that they'll be separated. I have to consider Tormented as only a part of his power until proven otherwise.
*okay, side note: I think it would be really cool to have a killer that you can only sense via audio and the killer can only sense you via audio (Spirit rework?).
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no. it shouldn't be a hex perk. The only reason it is, I think, is because the other hex perk The Blight has would make even less sense included in his perk set. None of his perks have anything to do with his power, lore, or anything else related, which is not just a little strange, but okay, devs.
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@Dpooly said:
It's just what it randomly chose, that's how bloodwebs work. Sorry if that's a little blunt, but like pretty much everything else in the game, it's completely RNG based.
it's not random. It's a very specific pattern.
@OP sometimes the bloodweb just ****s up and ruins your plans because the coding had a hiccup. Sometimes it'll eat everything behind the node (in two stages) it was supposed to eat but not the node itself. DbD's code can be weird sometimes.
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@InnCognito said:
interesting. please continue the discussion!
lol it would be more of a discussion if you (or anyone who agreed) had a reply :p
rn it's just two people who have disagreed with you and nothing else.
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walking animation was changed recently for the worse. I am comfortable with his current appearance, however.
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I can't edit something in a PTB archive, and this isn't doing much use there.
Alternate Add-on Solution
I was hoping for a solution that rewards players for doing well, but a solution that helps players who are not doing so well might be more feasible.
Killers that only manage to get kills after all gens are done and killers that don't manage to get kills keep both add-ons. Killers that 4k keep one add-on of lower rarity (if there are two). If there is only one add-on, the killer loses that add-on.
Survivors that die in a match lose their items and add-ons if they have used at least 10% of the total charges. Escaping with an item with less than 25% of total charges does not preserve the item or add-ons. Otherwise, all items and add-ons are kept.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560633#Comment_1560633
Oblivious, Undetectable, Corrupted. Not sure if Corrupted will be used by other killers or not, time will tell. Cross Play, cross progression on tge horizon, MMR (albeit a work in progress), graphical update, map fixes, god loops gone. I mean i think ive made my point, youre comolaining like theyve done nothing at all. Im all about them skipping a chapter to address the myriad of bugs, but lets not pretend theyre a charity and have dine nothing at all but line their pockets
From my second comment:
"STATUS EFFECTS
Undetectable falls under this category. It is The Wraith's stealth idea but put into a status effect form for easy application across all killers. It's nothing new, interactive, or intriguing for the game.
Oblivious falls under this category, and it is not something that is interactive on either side. It's a status effect only applied by killers and serves no other purpose than to attempt to reduce one survivor's gained distance after starting to hear the terror radius (by hiding the terror radius for that one survivor temporarily). It's not that different at all in style from Undetectable. Both of these fail to be new mechanics, with the understanding that new mechanics are being defined as implementations that provide interactivity for both playable sides.
Status effects, as a rule, should not be considered new mechanics due to the way they play into an already existing framework."
You made me pause for a second when thinking about the entity-blocking-generator thing. I think it's probably not really a good example of a "B mechanic", and this is only because it's kind of like a status effect for generators (no killer interaction induces it specifically; perks are mediators), but it might count? Still, my hesitation is probably indicative of something I'm not seeing with the effect, and I think it's because the only thing it does is block a generator (VFX are fluff and kind of break immersion imo), preventing interaction rather than facilitating interaction, which is a key difference. I'll get back to you if my position changes.
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@OllieHellhunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560633#Comment_1560633
You complain about them tacking on more perks to get? yet like totems' inclusion with the hag, tell me what about totems made them 'fun or interactive for players if the killer didnt have Hex perks? The killer gains nothing fun or interactive, theres just some bones around the map now, The survivor gets something interactive but only towards getting some extra bloodpoints and I wouldn't say that the act of cleansing a totem is particularly fun. The interactive and fun parts of totems all come from the perks associated, on the killer side it's the risk reward of having a powerful perk but it can be taken out by survivors, on the survivor side, you can go out of your way to find them for the chance to effectively neuter the killer by removing a perk.
So if all the enjoyment and interactivity of totems comes from perks, why do other new inclusions associated with perks get discounted?
Ah, I forgot to say that I'm not against the addition of perks. I largely disagree with their recent perk design, but that's a topic for another day.
Here's a post where I talk about what should be done to perks (and start from the third paragraph):
@Kind_Lemon said:
I thought this was an important enough comment to warrant its own thread.
First and foremost, I think a White Ward should prevent add-ons from being lost upon an escape if the devs do go through with this change. I personally dislike it given that I have very few clean rags or rubber grips despite having upwards of one hundred of brown bloodpoint offerings each. Keeping these add-ons after a successful escape is the only way they can compete with the amount of bloodpoint offerings without burning through tens of bloodwebs worth 50,000 points each.
About killers keeping add-ons: I think considering adding the rule that killers lose their add-ons only if a survivor escapes would be an intriguing idea even if only for the sake of lore (eg. the Entity rewards killers for doing well). However, before considering this, the issue of bloodpoint gain, the cheapness of bloodwebs, and perk acquisition needs to be addressed.
As it stands now, perks can only be obtained through the bloodweb, and the sheer number of perks in the game requires an inordinate amount of bloodpoints to be spent and bloodwebs to be run through in order to acquire most (if not all). The developers decided to make the bloodweb cheaper to combat (among other things such as 8k common bloodpoint offerings) the grind to acquire all the perks. In doing so, the developers allowed players to breeze through bloodwebs and accumulate hundreds of add-ons and offerings that can't be used in enough games before the player reaches the bloodpoint cap and has to start leveling again or waste the points.
The BEST solution (not the easiest) is to add another menu in the bloodweb tab that is designed solely for upgrading perks and then increase the prices of items on the bloodweb. I have incomplete drawings I may edit in later, but for now, imagine it as similar to the UI structure of the loadout tab (add-on choosing, offering choosing, etc.). There is a bloodweb section and then a perk section that can be switched between with ease.
How it functions:
- The bloodweb no longer spawns perks higher than the first tier and teachable perks, so once a player has purchased a perk in the bloodweb, he/she will have to travel to the perk upgrade menu.
- In the perk upgrade menu, players will be able to see the perks they have purchased off the bloodweb. All perks (other than the first tier of teachable perks) not purchased from the bloodweb will not appear. If a player clicks on a perk, a prompt will show up asking the player if he or she would like to upgrade the perk a tier (or downgrade, but I'm still not sure about having this option) and will show a price twice that of the next level's rarity (eg. upgrading from common to uncommon will be 8,000 and upgrading from Very Rare to Ultra Rare will be 14,000).
- Purchasing a perk on the bloodweb does not immediately consume another perk node. Instead, The Entity will first consume the highest rarity node in the furthest ring.
I think this solution is best because it removes the problem part of the grind from the bloodweb, the sole way for killers to get items and add-ons and the only way for anyone to get offerings. It gives the developers more flexibility in the future to play with prices and the numbers of rarities of nodes on any given bloodweb. Even perhaps more crucially, it allows players more agency in deciding which perks to be able to upgrade, avoiding (for the most part) unwanted perks and giving players more of an option to plan out builds and strategies without relying on chance to such a degree.
(P.S. This also brings back Ultra Rare and Common perks)
P.P.S. TL;DR Let survs keep their items and fix other parts of the game that have gone out of whack before fiddling with this.
Edit: Hopefully these replies helped 😊
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1558270#Comment_1558270
Wow, that is quite a lot of mental gymnastics to make things fit your definitions of what’s a new mechanic and what isn’t. You a politician or a lawyer?
You're right. My definitions are a mess.
Update to the topic: New mechanics that make the base game more fun and interactive for everyone are now called "B mechanics". Mechanics that are either nothing new or exist solely for one killer are "C mechanics" and "D mechanics".
So, my point is that the lack of "B mechanics" due to seasons and not updates to game mechanics means the devs will never fix the major problems in their game because perks are not actual solutions to base game problems.
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@OllieHellhunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560633#Comment_1560633
You complain about them tacking on more perks to get? yet like totems' inclusion with the hag, tell me what about totems made them 'fun or interactive for players if the killer didnt have Hex perks? The killer gains nothing fun or interactive, theres just some bones around the map now, The survivor gets something interactive but only towards getting some extra bloodpoints and I wouldn't say that the act of cleansing a totem is particularly fun. The interactive and fun parts of totems all come from the perks associated, on the killer side it's the risk reward of having a powerful perk but it can be taken out by survivors, on the survivor side, you can go out of your way to find them for the chance to effectively neuter the killer by removing a perk.
So if all the enjoyment and interactivity of totems comes from perks, why do other new inclusions associated with perks get discounted?
Totems aren't useful only if there's a hex perk in play. That's the main appeal, but due to the fact that they're present in every match whether there's a hex perk or not means they affect other part of the game, if only slightly.
Totems
The interactivity of dull totems
Dull totems are an underappreciated and often overlooked part of the DbD experience. Other than the lore aspect of them (which I won't mention except to say, "Isn't that red thing a price tag? It sure looks like one, and if it is, where are all these killers buying these totems? Do they have to buy new ones for every match since survivors keep breaking them? Is there a store somewhere?If so, how do they pay? In sacrifices? In emotions?" BUT MOVING ON), dull totems are a constant presence in every match, one that every new player has experienced and thought, "What is that?", walked over to it, cleansed it, and became confused until looking it up after the trial was over. Because it's an interact-able that has no prerequisites, it can cause a number of "emergent" results (look up emergent gameplay on your own). The following list is taking all survivors into consideration but placing less importance on those only playing the game for highest efficiency.
- Totems are an attraction away from generators. Adding another POI on the map for all survivors changed the overall survivor-generator interaction in whatever small manner it did.
- Totems were well integrated into other existing mechanics that didn't already have a spot for it. Small Game's functionality changed to be not only useful for detecting traps, modifying its importance in the game in however small manner it did. All auras that would track a killer's belongings included the totem's aura (cough and this didn't happen with Pyramid's Trails bc why? cough), and this affected the map's usage.
- Dull totem cleansing can alert killers of a nearby survivor's presence, which is often a large giveaway and can result in an additional survivor in the dying state in several scenarios. i.e. it's a survivor-locator dependent on survivor actions
- Cleansed dull totems can alert killers of survivor spawn locations and encourage killers to search harder in an thought-to-be-empty area to find that one, evasive survivor.
- Totems are considered intensely when implementing new killers and perks (along with the regressing mechanic and the Obsession mechanic). No other recent implementations (other than the use of status effects, and including a new status effect is not the inclusion of a new mechanic) are used for anything else but their one-and-done implementation. Breakable Walls are thrown in with pallets when any thought is given to the obstacles killers kick.
While some of these points may appear in some form or another with other, more recent additions, it is largely the number and combination that raises totems above the rest. However, the existence of the last item in the list (#5) is just as important if not more than the number and combination of preceding items.
If totems had been introduced today instead of before now (removing all post-introduced totem related perks from this hypothetical), I am 95% certain that dull totems would not exist and hex totems would be the only ones to appear in trials. That would have earned itself an almost-spot in the category I'm now calling "B mechanics". Dull totems are critical in filling out the totem's place in DbD.
I would love to see that the developers are doing things to their base game that are new mechanics ("B mechanics"), but I haven't seen that yet and no one has shown me otherwise.
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I think the state of DbD suuuuucks. It still functions, but it's painful to think too much about all the things that could be done to fix it that are not being done.
Entitlement comes from expectations, in this case: the expectations of having a fun game and not being ****ed over by severs or assorted frustrations. If you just realize that everything is never going to get significantly better and realize you've got to be okay with reality cus it is what it is, then entitlement goes away!
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there's no need to even put any thought into ranks once you've hit red ranks at least once, so other than get to red ranks to gain clarity, I have no tips.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
Youre complaining that theres to much content?
@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1559256#Comment_1559256
they are complaining bhvr has to pay their staff and for servers somehow. I mean, I'd also rather see big cosmetic packs instead of single character stuff for example, but yeah...
??????
I'm criticizing the fact that the devs have shown no interest in improving their base game and each update is not really a way for the devs to improve their game but just tack on more killers to play and perks to get and grind to go through. I haven't said anything about too much content, if anything, there's not enough if someone wants to just play one killer, since all the "new content" is separate from everything else (except maps and offerings). That's why the implementation of kicking gens (with The Doctor) was so influential. The same for The Hag, with Totems, and Michael with Obsessions (if you didn't have an Obsession perk, someone else did, so it affected all applicable matches). Nothing past that has introduced any mechanic we haven't seen before. Breakable Walls? A slight variation on pallets. Deep Wounds? Another bleed out timer. All of the implementations mentioned either solved problems or made the game more fun for everyone. I've not seen a single person say that Deep Wounds is fun for everyone and I've not seen anyone say they enjoy (not find interesting -- enjoy) breakable walls (for their own sake). The EGC tried to solve a problem (and alleviated a few cases of frustration that could also have been solved with a simple concede button), but didn't make the game more fun or interactive for players. That's what I'm saying. Seasons = nothing new that's outside of the killer+survivor+perks+some small adjustment to what players can do in chase. That's it. Updates change things. Seasons don't tend to do that in nearly the same way.
I'm quite happy that the developers have been able to make so much money from cosmetics. I see it as a way of donation (albeit using tactics that prey a little too much on unsuspecting psyches imo); if you want the cosmetic and feel like supporting the devs, buy it!
Edit: parenthetical
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@gatsby said:
@Kind_Lemon so basically new mechanics aren't creative enough unless they're used globally across all killers?
So in your mind, Breakable Walls are new mechanics and truly innovative. But all of Pyramid Head's unique abilities like a new status effect, an alternative way to hook a Survivor and an attack that pierces through walls are uninspired and show the Devs can't come up with new ideas.
K.
My point is here --> .
and your interpretation is here --> .
I haven't said anything about lack of creativity, but I realize my post might be too convoluted, so I've tried to condense it into one paragraph.
The Point in question: The devs have focused on mechanics specific to a killer's power rather than anything that would make the game more interesting for all players. Because Pyramid Head's abilities are unique, they don't actually change anything about the base game for everyone, and that's not a new, base-game, mechanic. It's his power. Sure, it's interesting, but because it's not a base game addition, it's showing how the devs are succumbing to formulaic additions to their game and will not be able to fix major problems like gen efficiency. It's not a "new mechanic" for the players; it's only for Pyramid Head.
I'm not sure how to make that much clearer, so I hope that paragraph gets across. It's a "this is a sign of other things not having any hope of getting fixed" argument.
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idk, I just bought the perk from Deathslinger cus I'm never going to level him or play him other than for dailies. I bought him with iri shards just to see how he felt like to play, and it didn't make me think any better of the developers that designed him (no offense).
Edit: I've also gotten all of Meg's teachables from the shrine and haven't leveled her even once. I almost got the achievement for her, too. I was a week too late ),:
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@Cheers said:
The problem was on certain maps it would cause infinites. Additionally I love BL and to me it's the best or second best exhaustion perk (Hard to decide between it and DH)
I feel like this infinite claim is just by hearsay because I've never seen in videos any survivors being able to run a Balance Landing induced infinite on a killer who wasn't chasing the survivor incorrectly. I've also never personally found that survivors using Balanced Landing can run infinites on me. I actually really enjoyed chasing Balanced Landing users (w/o the speed boost) because it meant my chases would take me places not that many survivors would go.
The most annoying part about Balanced Landing is the speed boost, so I'm an advocate of permanent reduced fall stun with no speed boost ever. The devs kept the annoying part of the perk in and took out the fun-to-face part, which I think is sad.
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disagree. Entity progression speed should halve when other survivors are nearby, which encourages killers to push survivors away from the hook, commit to survivors running away from hooks, and not camp hooks, and it allows survivors more time to be stealthy when approaching an unhook. Entity progression should be slightly faster than it is now for hooked survivors not near any other survivors.
BT should still be a perk, but it should have its old bleed out timer effect returned (the one where you go down if you don't heal and the one that doesn't have such ugly saturation). This would make stupidly cocky saves less safe and prevent unhooked survivors from tanking hits (one of the most absurd things currently in the game imo).
Rather than more self unhook opportunities, more tools should be given to survivors to escape killers while they are being chased. Getting downed should be much more of an "I'm going to die, now!" feeling than an "All in due time," feeling.
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The gambling mentality that if I play enough, maybe I'll enjoy it eventually.
It's disappointing that there's almost nothing in the game that I'm sure I'll enjoy in a given match.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1556312#Comment_1556312
Yeah.. We were up against a Trapper with POP... middle gen was the shack which he had trapped up.
That sounds awful :,(
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@FluffySharkz_ said:
What about when we got Deep Wounds with Legion? or Oblivious with Demogorgon? or Undetectable with Ghostface? Or the end game collapse? Or breakable walls?
@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1556360#Comment_1556360
Pyramid head is probably the Killer with the MOST unique mechanics of all of them
I'll address the so-called "mechanics" individually (and I did forget about kicking generators with Doctor, which is the most recent one), and I'll leave the mechanics that are integral to a killer's power for last, because my point with this claim is that no mechanics available to all killers and survivors have been introduced since The Hag (with Doc's being killer-only but resulting in survivor interaction).
But first, I'll point out why The Hag has the most recent, true "new mechanic".
- Implemented the hex and dull totems; dull totems are present on every map regardless of perks
- survivors have an additional interaction possible in trials with every killer
- Killers who equip hex perks have a new objective to defend (even without hex perks, totems can still be valuable for sound cues and preventing Inner Strengths)
Explanations are below about why candidates for "new mechanics" have been rejected:
STATUS EFFECTS
Undetectable falls under this category. It is The Wraith's stealth idea but put into a status effect form for easy application across all killers. It's nothing new, interactive, or intriguing for the game.
Oblivious falls under this category, and it is not something that is interactive on either side. It's a status effect only applied by killers and serves no other purpose than to attempt to reduce one survivor's gained distance after starting to hear the terror radius (by hiding the terror radius for that one survivor temporarily). It's not that different at all in style from Undetectable. Both of these fail to be new mechanics, with the understanding that new mechanics are being defined as implementations that provide interactivity for both playable sides.
Status effects, as a rule, should not be considered new mechanics due to the way they play into an already existing framework.
EGC
Rather than being a new mechanic, the EGC is simply a timer to prevent excessive match elongation. A simple timer like the EGC doesn't bring new interactivity between killers and survivors or for both sides separately. It limits potential toxicity while shutting down potentially interesting, longer plays by killers and survivors. It's a mere functionality tweak more so than a new mechanic.
BREAKABLE WALLS
They exist to be ignored unless they've been placed so a killer is forced to break them to go around a window. These are pallets that can't be vaulted over and have been thrown down since the start of the match. Survivors aren't given any interaction with the addition, and killers often benefit from ignoring them. Additionally, they are only present on a select few maps (probs will change in future, but it doesn't really matter). Since it does not increase interaction for either side other than what is already present in pallet breaks, it can't be a new mechanic. It is almost classified as a base-game addition (map exclusivity prevents the classification).
PYRAMID HEAD
The Tormented and The Cages are exclusive to Pyramid Head. They cannot be "new mechanics" in the sense used in this post specifically because of that. These two aspects of his power are not available to all killers and do not meaningfully enough give new interactions to survivors (A better example to bring up would be The Pig, who also has the same issue of traps being tied to her power).
DEEP WOUNDS
This status effect (see Status effect section above for comments about status effects) and ensuing mend would almost be a "new mechanic" in the sense defined by this post except for the fact that this status effect is only present when built into a killer's power. While some newer killers utilize the effect, it is not available to all killers (either through perks or otherwise), and the only reason survivors have access to Legion's debuff is because having two bleed out timer in the game (one for BT and presume-ably other survivor perks) and one for The Legion must have seemed too complicated for the devs. As the bleed out timer had already been introduced with Bill (see comments about timers in EGC section above), the Deep Wounds mechanic isn't entirely original or new. Even though it provides a somewhat new interaction for survivors (Mending), it's a functionality tweak on the bleed out timer that only affects certain matches with certain killers some times.
Anything involving a power inherently cannot truly count, and as such, the only two, true new mechanics introduced to the game since launch have been Obsessions and Totems (With Doctor coming in as a solid new mechanic that doesn't completely hit the survivor aspect of the criteria above, so it's an honorary "new mechanic").
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I would like to point out that the extended range add-ons currently on Nurse still do not give a suitable downside, and this is mainly because of the change to her blink destination that was introduced with The Pig. The best way forward is to revert a large number of her add-ons (return to the community her speedy blink add-ons, Jenner's Last Breath, Anxious Gasp, etc.) and prevent blinks from being noticeably shorter than the range the charge of the blink could cover.
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@FluffySharkz_ said:
I honestly don't know what you mean about chapters being "churned out so regularly" these days, I mean the first three chapters (last breath, halloween and of flesh and mud) were all only 2 months apart, last breath came out in august 2016, halloween in october, and of flesh and mud in december. Chapters have steadily slowed down over time.
The first three chapters didn't nearly come across as regular in release as does the repetition of PTB, midchapter, PTB, new killer/survivor, etc. I'm not saying there was no schedule (because there was), but it seemed like the devs were less worried about being so rigid on the actual releases (eg. Doctor). More importantly, there have been no new mechanics other than killer powers that provide fresh interactivity on both sides since the release of The Hag and totems. With The Shape, it was Obsessions, and Huntress is the closest thing we have most recently (introduced the general idea of range). Every succeeding killer follows the same formula, just like how most seasons in games are designed, and this appears to have prevented new mechanics from being introduced. All of the obsession perks since the DS rework would have benefited from not piggybacking on the obsession mechanic and having their own mechanic instead (eg. a branding or marking of the sort that temporarily marked a survivor as special).
Time is just one aspect of why I'm making this claim. Patterns and the kind of content released are majorly important to defending it.
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Since all the console players have joined with PC (or vice versa, idc), I've seen a lot more purple ranked survivors in my games whereas before I'd see more red ranks. I think it's just a survivor glut.
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I complain about Discordance. No way in hell should it be a Rare perk instead of Very Rare.
I'm not sure I completely understand your suggestion, but I don't think I'm completely against it?
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@Ivaldi said:
10-12 minutes is the sweet spot for me as both killer and survivor... I've had some games where our team was stuck in a 3 gen situation last for 30+ minutes and it just gets boring and exhausting.
That seems to be pointing out the huge flaws with the gen regress mechanic more than anything inherently negative about long games that are longer because of other reasons.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1555094#Comment_1555094
On the flip side, if the first totem you come across is a dull totem there's even less reason not to cleanse it, besides easy bloodpoints and NOED prevention.
I feel your reply misses my point though. I'm not saying ignore Hex totems in favor of dull, just that Undying's transfer effect can be negated/limited by doing dull totems as well as Hex. If the Killer's using Undying and Haunted Grounds, two dull totems is all is takes to prevent a respawn since if/when HG is cleansed it won't have enough dull totems to move to. Alternatively, if you can identify the non-Undying Hex, then you can decide if leaving it up actually is a good idea.
Also, question I haven't seen come up, do Survivors get a notification if Undying is in effect? Survivors are usually notified which Hex is in play when its effects come up, but I haven't seen enough PTB games to tell if it comes up with this one after a non-Undying Hex is cleansed.
I may have not worded my reply as concisely and directly as I probably should have (I focused on a lot of not-as-important things in my comment, and I realize it seems somewhat confrontational and unnecessarily so), ), but my statement still stands that "It's stupid to tell survivors to do dull totems when the survivors are already doing dull totems and are then still pointing out flaws in design."
I do, however, completely agree that there is some thinking that goes into deciding whether to cleanse a totem or not (eg. haunted grounds has triggered and then you suddenly see a totem near you light up; cleansing it then would just be trolling. Even then, newer players might get the chance to **** over all the other survivors twice with Haunted Grounds instead of once, which is a bad feeling).
I'm not actually sure if the hex gives a notification, but it certainly should especially since it has the aura reading effect.
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I second this.
I'm not a fan of the newer chase music in general (Oni's is alright, and so is Demo's), but I can get behind this.
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Huh. MMR sucked for me. I was a red rank killer consistently against brown ranked survivors. Not that much fun.
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his camera position compared to his third person animations is completely ****ed up as far as I can tell, and the devs like it that way. He uses the most recent frame (created for Demo) along with Oni, Deathslinger, etc. if that helps.
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because certain players being able to enjoy the game is super low on their to-do list (*cough*colorblindsettings*cough*)
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I have around 15 fps on PTB with lowest graphics and lowest resolution with an intel core of 9something. I would like something to fix AA before anything else. Playing against the new killer is hard when I can't react all that quickly.
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quick question: If I ever get the "Trusted" label, do I get to pick my color, or is it automatically Ultra Rare's color?
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I mean, the hatch should just require an opening interaction, just like gates, before it can be used (with loud sound at the end). Then what you suggested (which is: preventing emergent gameplay) will not be necessary.
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I must be blind, but I have no idea where the option is, and I'd like to use said option.