Khelendrose2020
Khelendrose2020
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I've seen many of these polls over the years. They all asked promising questions. Few, if any, related changes came from it.
As fo MMR, I personally think the older system was better. Matches varied between sweaty and casual. Now it's just sweaty. Both systems are easily games to lower rank/MMR, so that does not matter. Heck, MMR is easier and more rewarding to lower. Just 2 hook and let everyone go, or finish gens and refuse to leave. You would have to afk in the old system and get less than 2k bp.
I think any MMR system should weigh several aspects of the game, including your devotion level.
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@GoshJosh said:
So far they’ve announced nothing but killer buffs for the next patch, including a heavy CoH nerf. But have you not experienced the fun that is being hard camped and tunneled on the other side, which you say and do? Bet those survivors are having loads of fun too!
Part of why hard camping and tunneling is everywhere now is due to the direction the game took over the past year. I despise the idea of camping every hook or tunneling. When my matches got so sweaty, and so fast (MMR) that I found myself considering camping and tunneling, I grew concerned. Then CoH hit and hit and run went to crap. I found HUGE success in camping and tunneling as it became the top tactic to counter the new direction of the game.
That is when I quit playing. I can't stomach playing like that. The developers have pushed the game into tgis corner. Here's hoping they recognize that and pull it back out again.
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People calling this a dead perk now are either disingenuous or very short sighted. One perk that gives the benefits of multiple perks while freeing up SWF teammates to run other perks.
1. Full team self care in a designated area of the map - very strong on its own.
2. 50% healing bonus in a designated area of the map - very strong on its own.
3. No need for a healing kit, tgus allowing you to either double up the healing speed with a kit or bring something else.
4. Whole party can see the totem
5. Can be relit as long as a totem exists.
This perk is still very strong. Anyone saying otherwise is just not being honest.
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My favorite is the early DC from the one who spams his flashlight, drops a pallet, teabags like crazy, moonwalks, and gets immediately dropped due to a solid mind game. Those DC every time.
Or, they turn at the end of the moonwalk and SNAP! Right into the trap I baited them towards. DC.....
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856672#Comment_2856672
And how exactly does a killer get any kills with noed while being afk? Or has the definition of afk changed from "Away From Keyboard" to something else when I wasn't looking?
You do realize the AFK pig means you just sit there UNTIL a head pops, then you clean up the others. If you walk away from keyboard, sure, ok. But most just sit until a head pops or all hats are off.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856023#Comment_2856023
You can only get multiple kills with the afk pig if there are multiple keys in the one box you are afk in front of, which there is no way for pig to check. Also just statistically, you'd be lucky to keep a 1k average, and there would be plenty of games where you didn't even get that.
Playing afk pig is the DbD equivalent to placing a single number bet in roulette every spin. Sure if it actually hits 22, you will make a lot, but it's far, far more likely that it'll stop on any other number.
That's not true at all. Run NOED, Blood Warden and easily get 2 more. Seen it happen more than not.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2855330#Comment_2855330
It is ALL about try-harding, people who take more kills are always people who try hard, it doesn't measure how "good" people are, it measure how desperate they are at achieving kills/escapes.
The point of SBMM is separating people who playing game casually/normally, to people who desperate enough to bring anything possible to achieve their goal.
You are missing the entire point of system.
Oh and you won't get 3 or 4k every match, if you were to actually afk you will get to bottom of MMR because probability of kills are actually really low.
You underestimate the ridiculousness of afk pig or other lazy/boring play styles. You say try hard and it does not fit. Why? AFK pig can easily average 2 to 3 kills a match. Camping can average 3 easily. It's all about the builds and altruistic players. Both styles require little "trying".
MMR does not measure try hard vs casual. It measures nothing at all. Many try hard players purposely tank MMR so they can roll over easier players.
The system is completely broken.
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Trapper would be so easy to fix. Give a percentage chance you get caught in the trap when trying to disarm it. Remove the ability to Dead Hard o er traps.
Now there is a risk to disarming his traps (bear traps should be set to higher sensitivity considering he's hunting people) and there is no easy I Win button out of a well placed trap.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2854390#Comment_2854390
If pig try hard for kills that much, it's ACTUALLY skilled play.
The point of MMR is to separate extreme tryhard and anyone else.
No. The point of MMR is to measure skill for matchmaking purposes. It is not about try-Harding. The problem is the measurement is wrong. Kills and escapes are not a measure of skill by any means. As has been shown, you can afk and get 3 to 4k, but actually trying to pressure gens, and out maneuver a group to get the same results requires skill.
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AFK Pig is pure skill, by MMR standards. Load up NOED and Rancor and you easily can get 2-3 kills. Kills=skills according to MMR. (Sarcasm, for those who can't tell.)
Unfortunately, afk Pig gets results. I don't know if I could run it as I find it boring and lacking in any effort.
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Remove MMR.
If they added FNaF, I'd never look back as the game is well over the shark by then.
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@Sluzzy said:
It is not a big deal, the killer can see the survivor auras. It is not game breaking enough to warrant killswitching it.
Besides, the two perks are useless on their own.
Killer can't get 100% aura sight on survivors during loops. Go look at the numerous vids showing how easy it is to loop any killer due to having full-time wall hacks.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2847524#Comment_2847524
You clearly don't understand how undetectable works.
Yeah, you may want to watch some of the vids out there on it. The undetectable status is not helping at all in loops. You can see everything the killer does. Even when Pig tries the crouch dash move or Onryo fades in and out. You still get plenty of wall hack time to react.
This is a gross bug and should be kill switched immediately.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2841152#Comment_2841152
Yeah, the game went bad the moment people were not being carried by bad matchmaking anymore. Was soo much easier when you just could stomp noob solo survivors.
Not at all what we are talking about here. We are talking about 50 percent of your matches being sweat fests bs every match. We are talking about good players, but not focused on meta builds vs every group being a meta group playing like they are paid to.
Same for survivor side.
Nice try though.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2841152#Comment_2841152
My experience has been somewhat different. I started right when killers had their matchmaking protections removed (likely due to insane queue times as survivor) and maybe 2/3 of my games as a very new player was against red/purple rankers, people infinitely better than me or people smurfing. Smurfing was so easy that even some FWs did it openly to get 'more fun games'.
It was miserable. Absolutely awful.
Now, as what I'd guess is a high-intermediate player (at least on killer), barring the current MMR issues (seriously, maybe 40% of my queue attempts end in a 'Matchmaking Failed, Timeout created' error) I'd say that 3/5 of my games are at least somewhat evenly matched. 1/5 are against people much better than me, 1/5 are against people much worse than me. It's not perfect, but it's...better.
The thing about MMR - it makes the game better for the majority of players (who are new-intermediate at best) while making things perhaps a little rougher on the veterans, as they'll be more likely to face other veterans. If you keep stomping, in time you'll have to play sweaty to keep winning and eventually to maintain a 50% kill rate. That's...just the nature of the beast.
Before MMR - well, those epic 100+ win streaks came at the expense of a lot of frustrated survivors.
Hackers..yep.
I would disagree. I've played killer since 2017. I would place myself in the top 20% or higher as skill level. I main Trapper, so it's not like I use a powerful killer. Since MMR, every match is balls-to-the-wall. One mistake and I'm done.
See, this system is easier to snurf than the last system. In the last system, you had to pretty much afk and avoid points. What I started seeing in the MMR system was either survivors who got the gates opened and refused to leave, tgus lowering their MMR, or killers who hooked people twice and then went afk.
Kills don't equal skills. I can 4k by being afk for half a match with Twins (Run the right perk combos on the right map and just hook each once). That's not skill. The whole system is now out of whack.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2840677#Comment_2840677
Hackers, I understand.
I don't think it's MMR.
MMR is something that feels like a forum/streamer thing - as it definitely means that veteran players are going to have a somewhat ossified meta and be playing against opponents less varied than they are used to, which places pressure on them to play sweaty. But...that's high MMR in every game, and under ranks - while the vets and the pros had a blast, it also meant that newer or more intermediate players got destroyed.
Right now, Matchmaking Failed errors aside, I'm finding that the general quality of my matches has improved substantially. Before SBMM, I'd say maybe 1/3 of my games felt decently matched. Now it's...maybe 3/5? Not perfect, but certainly better.
Between this forum and Steam forums, I've had conversations with over a hundred people that quit due to MMR.
Myself, it's why I quit playing. The matches were almost instantly absolute sweat fests. MMR changed the game, especially for killers. There used to be a few sweaty matches mixed with laid back fun matches. MMR laid waste to those laid back matches. It is a poor way to measure skill and matchmaking.
Added to game balance (looking at you BCOH) and hacker increases and the game is unbearable.
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Justification: MMR, kills = skills no matter how you get them.
According to BHVR, kills are wins. Fastest way to kills, and by far the easiest, is to camp the first hook out. Can easily score a second kill and secure a draw, but are often treated to a 3rd and even a 4th kill this way.
Getting someone out early makes victory easier to achieve.
This is not my chosen play style. I prefer using my skills to pressure the field, win chases, terrorize the survivors through many hooks, etc. But, BHVR says none of that is skill. Much more skill in standing still with Bubba and relying on NOED/BW for 2 more kills.
This is why I've only played for 1 hour since December. Can't stomach the level of sweat from either side anymore.
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Before MMR, I played 3 days a week for around 15 to 20 hours. Now, I play maybe an hour a month since December. MMR destroyed the killer experience for me and the wait times on survivor added to solo que nightmare (bad teammates and every match is tunneling/camping) just ripped all the enjoyment from the game.
I keep hoping the devs will get smart and realize this system is a horrible system that has nothing to do with skill, but I doubt they ever will.
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1. Remove MMR
2. Better balance on Boon totems. Either limit the number of uses, make the healing bonus non stackable, or require the killer to be in the area in order to function.
Mostly number 1.
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@Jaxton2000 said:
If I'm playing Mikaela and I see you cleanse a totem instead of repairing and you weren't blessing it.
your done
your done, go home
in general for people DON'T CLEANSE THE FREAKING TOTEMS PLZ THNX!!!!!!1! Especially with Mikaela you should know better!
If I'm playing and see you as Mikaela and we get nabbed by NOED, your done!
Sorry Charlie, but you best get that blessing up. I'll leave 1 totem, but you best not let NOED pop on it.
Settle down.
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FNaF would be the nail in the coffin for DbD. It would shift the age demographic by double digits to kids who can only buy what mom and dad let them buy as opposed to people who have purchase power.
I doubt the FNaF powers that be will allow it anyway. They ja e said as recent as last year there are no plans for online multi-player. Furthermore, they are already contracting aspects of the game with several studios who do work on multi-player games, thus they jave existing partnerships should they change their mind.
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Body blocking at 5 gens, zero hooks. Body blocking at 3 gens zero hooks. Flashlight blinding at 0 gens 0 deaths.
Just play the game already or do like many of us have a quit until they fix this disaster.
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I'd venture to say a good portion of SWF would opt out of a bot killer. Can't bully and redicule the bot.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2795780#Comment_2795780
Did you forget fnaf 3? spring trap literally has guts visible inside him. And the lore is literally a child murderer making robots that he then kills kids then stuff them into to get them to be possessed then dismantle them on a mission for immortality. So labeling fnaf as "for children" is far from correct. Also you forgot the first games death screen has human eyes peeking out of the suit so there is gore there, the second talking about a part of someone's head getting bitten off, minigames that shows someone killing a child and a different on giving life to dead bodies.
Also for the part of "doesn't fit in" like bruh we have survivors running around in onsies, as a present/elf, people without shirts, a penguin outfit and hell even a kpop star. You telling me that really fits in a game that's supposed to be classified as "horror"?
Take it up with the creator. He's the one stating it is for children. I mean, Snow White has a wicked Queen who tries to kill teenage girl with poison. Wizard of Oz has a wicked witch who threatens to boil a child and a dog. Kid's properties have always been able to have an edge to them. Does not put them on the level of Freddy Kruger or Jason Voorhees.
If Springtrap targets children, are we going to now put an under 18 survivor in to get their head split by Huntress' are, or head smashed and finger cut off and sucked on by Clown?
Still nowhere near as graphic as DbD. This is a very bad idea, just due to the blurring of lines for a children's property and adult content.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2795628#Comment_2795628
"does not fit".... i have never seen a more wrong sentence.
Why is it wrong? FNaF is listed as a children's property. There is no gore, no on screen murder. No dismemberment. DbD is a much more mature property focused on blood, gore, dismemberment, torture, death, eternal damnation and suffering.
Two very different concepts.
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@Gamerzilla2018 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2795427#Comment_2795427
Wait a killer zombie robot rabbit is some how for children?
Yes, it is literally categorized for children. The creator even stated it is a children's jump scare property. He made it so children could enjoy scary games without true horror.
I don't see them letting BHVR put the property in DbD as it would betray the original concept of the property.
My money would be on Dead Space. There were rumors of a collab with BHVR last year. There's a new Dead Space property coming out this year.
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Nope. I have no faith in this team anymore. Shame, could be a cool chapter, but tgis team is too full of their own perceived greatness to realize they keep adding more crap to a pile of crap, therefore making it a bigger, smellier pile of dung.
Oh well.
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@Heartbound said:
Playing for hooks is more fun and lowers your MMR so you're also playing with people that play for fun.
Personally I see it as an absolute win.
Playing for hooks also lowers your BP gain. I was noticing that when I stopped playing almost 2 mos ago. My average BP per match dropped by 6-8k. You were not getting as many hooks and you are not getting kills, thus significantly less BP.
The game is in a very bad state right now, primarily due to MMR, and the devs have no intention of fixing it. It's why so many of us long-time players have backed away. I can't stomach playing as a camper and tunneller. I face way too many SWF now and I don't play killer to be the one hunted by another player. These SWFs are changing. They are emboldened by bad perk changes/additions. If they get the scent you are trying to play fair, you will be bullied throughout the match.
I keep hanging around the forums hoping there will be some sign of change because I've long enjoyed this game and hate to just abandon it, but that is where we are now.
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@gendoss said:
I don't get it. It tells you if the survivor has boil over, is it that hard to just walk down the stairs instead of falling off a ledge? There aren't even that many ledges in the game for God's sakes.
@AgtClappers as well.
Boil Over will allow you to wiggle off if they take the extra time to walk down the stairs. Moreso, it gives body blocking even more power because they can body block the stairs to the basement, making you drop down the side, thus triggering the boost. There are also many spots where there are no stairs to walk down or they are too far away.
Boil Over made SWFs even stronger - like ridiculously stronger.
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Back when I was actually playing, I loved when survivors wore charms. Most of the charms stand out and would betray their location when hiding. A Blendette with a shiny charm in the corner....love it.
I don't even know what charms I have on my characters. I never look at them because they are pointless decor. Everyone has the same ones so why bother trying to "brag" with them?
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Full Boon change.
CoH gives a non-stackable 50% healing to all survivors on the map. Furthermore, it allows self-care. Finally, the survivors enters the match with 2 totems that can be placed in any empty totem spot on the map with 10 second assembly time. The survivor earns up to 3 more totems. 1 totem when the 2nd and 3rd gens are complete and the third from destroying a dull or lit hex totem.
Buffing the range to whole map helps survivors
Nerfing the healing speed and stacking helps killers
Allowing survivors to build the totem in spots not occupied by one of the 5 game totems gives survivors flexibility while also not hindering killer's who are running perks where the totem may light later in the game.
Just a thought, likely more thought than the dev team put into it. haha....j/k.
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@milwaukee354 said:
I had a game against a nurse that ended with the nurse getting first hook in the basement, 4 gens left and the killer decided to proxy camp the survivor, I decided to just quit, I wasn't in the mood for that type of lazy gameplay. I had another game where I had to wait for a demo to find the hatch first before hooking me, because he was afraid I would wiggle off, before any killer mains comment, no I did not have a wiggle build. I just can't figure out why killers are so desperate for 4ks, are the devs giving away cash prices, when did this game become so toxic, can I get a normal game without killers playing like there lives depend on it
BHVR has pushed the game into this position. The absolute most efficient way to gain MMR and hold it is to camp and tunnel early. With all the new changes and the sweatier matches, camping and tunneling became efficient.
Add the new Boil Over bully builds and you have more reasons to not risk letting someone off the hook.
I hate it, and can't stomach playing killer much anymore, but that is where we are.
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I've said it several times, BHVR promotes bullying. They jave repeatedly made changes to this game that promote play styles that bully and harass casual players.
MMR makes camping and tunneling the unrivaled most efficient way to gain MMR.
Boil Over is now a great bully perk
We can probably make a hundred points of where they made a nonsensical change that only seems to increase bullying play styles.
Just accept it, or move on because they really don't care what we think on it. Declining interest in the game shows that.
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Not likely. I typically can't stomach more than 20 minutes of the game anymore. Since MMR it got too sweaty.
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If you were truly skilled, you would have hidden in the basement until the others did the gens, then escaped. Nothung else matters according to Patrick. Skill baby!!
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768569#Comment_2768569
Did you read the title? I'm not the one complaining about it. Also I agree wholeheartedly that right now it's a dev problem more than anything.
I was not referring to you. I was referring to those who do cry out about it. Nobody specific.
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Face it folks, camping and tunneling is exactly what the devs want in this game. It is the single most efficient way to get 2 to 3 kills. That is MMR gold! It is also very easy and does not require much skill or effort.
Stop complaining about it. The devs have pushed this as the primary strategy at this point.
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Been a killer main for 4 years. I dropped out due to MMR. I used to play upwards of 20 to 30 hours a week. I play 1 hour every 3 weeks now. Can't stomach so much sweat.
I personally know 17 other killer mains who dropped out die to MMR. Of the 17, only 3 play periodically. The others have not played for at least 7 weeks.
Yeah, MMR is killing the killer experience. Look at overall game numbers on Steam alone. They are sinking.
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There is only one real change I'd like to see in it. I have no real problem with it negating the hit. My problem is negating the hit and giving so much distance. Are the distance and it is fine. That would also negating it's use vs Trapper's trap unless their timing is perfect.
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Absolutely correct. That's why I've been trying to argue that James Edwards (avg 3.5 pts per game) was just as skilled as Michael Jordan. They were both on the same team and had the same amount of wins!
LOL
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You know the developers are lost when you hear the horrible sports analogy they used for SBMMR. Wins for a a hockey team equates to skill. Wait, we are talking a team sport vs an individual measure. So they are saying the guy who road the bench was as skilled as Wayne Gretzky?! Not a good comparison.
See, you jave to measure several areas to judge a player's skill, in sports or a game. If you want this to be skill based, you have to measure more than one thing. If you want this to be win based, that is different.
Why not use a boxing analogy? No, won't work due to the 4 v 1 setting. Boxers don't have to depend on 3 other boxers.
Tgis is a short-sighted system, period.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762191#Comment_2762191
So you think a Nurse who is as good as the average face camping Bubba is a good killer?
Wait, what?
A monkey can get a 2k while facecamping. Zero skill required, especially with a Bubba. That is why kills alone are a bad way to measure skill.
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Apples and oranges. Just like the dev's comparing it to team sports. Based on the sports analogy, James Edwards was as skilled as Michael Jordan on the 96 Bulls. (He averaged 3 pts a game...)
Based on kills as a barometer, a facecamping Bubba with 3 hooks and 3 kills (Thanks to NOED and BW) is more talented than a Trapper who got 10 hooks and 2 kills vs an SWF.
Sorry, does not add up.
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The stats I'd like to see:
1. What counts as high MMR?
2. Kill/pick rate for each killer at or above the high MMR mark.
3. Map survival/kill rate at or above high MMR.
4. DC parameters - As in, did they discount matches with a DC before 3 minutes were up? Or just all DC matches?
5. What was the SWF ratio in these matches and what was their survival rate compared to solo? (SWF being a team of 3 or more)
This type of data would tell us something, not this generic stuff.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/306010/possibility-of-bt-basekit
I hope not that ruins my ability to destroy toxic survivors lmao but for real idk how to feel about that honestly
I hate BT as well, but I'm willing to see how to buff solo que survivors in order to level the playing field with SWF. That is the only way they'll be able to properly buff killers without destroying the game. Right now, they balance around solo que where they should balance around SWF.
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I think the better tweak is removal of the stack ability. Leave it at 100, remove stacking with any other perk or item. The problem is not that the survivors can heal. The problem is that they can heal very fast in my face.
I'd even be ok with it being non stackable, 50% and map-wide. Heck, throw in the ability to build the totem in various spots so it is not part of the killer's totems.
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@GuyFawx said:
Ive seen noed replace a boon on final gen being popped. Gotta remember tho noed is a last ditch effort perk designed for teams that are too altruistic. Its something thats truthfully only countered by cleansing every totem on the map which takes a lot of work and a map unless you dont know where to look
NOED cannot replace a boon on final gen. What is likely happening is the killer knows where the boon is and stomps it out just before final gen, ensuring NOED pops.
That said, if the killer can break the totem, it will be nothing more than a choice. If they jave NOED loaded, they will likely just stomp on it. There is nothing exploited here. Dull totems used to be cleansed all the time, boons stopped that. NOED got stronger with boons and Pentimento.
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The sad thing is, the old "pip" system was a significantly better measurement of skill than this. It took several aspects of gameplay into consideration and then calculated whether you performed well enough to advance. Much better than measuring one aspect, which can be fudged.
You can easily Hide all match and escape. You can also easily facecamp 2 to 3 survivors. You could advance MMR with 3 hooks, 3 hits and less than 12k bp. Or with zero time healing, doing gens, being chased, or basically interacting with anything on the map. Insane.
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Not much. I could only stomach about an hour of playing the game in its current shape. Spent it on the grind.....
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Yes.
1. I rarely play anymore. Why? The game is too sweaty now.
2. When I do play, I found the easiest way to gain MMR as killer is to camp and tunnel. I have never been one to do either in my 5 years of playing, but it is now the way skill is measured.
That's right. Hooks don't count anymore. Just deaths. I was always a hook/slow the game down kind of player. That seemed to take more skill. That was clearly wrong. I can now 4k and zero pip, but gain MMR.
Yeah, bot the game I want to play. When I try to play relaxed, I face 4 man sweat groups and have to avoid any mistakes to hold my own.
No thanks