Karl_Childers
Karl_Childers
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- Karl_Childers
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20-30 sec clock, stops on chase or when downed....why it’s not like this instead of the current 60 I have no idea. It’s common sense for an anti tunnel perk to me.
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Exactly. It’s comical seeing the rise in complaints about BT and now DS again after the stun change. Stop tunneling, and no one cares that your end game camp might get countered either. I hate when killers think they are entitled to a kill simply because they choose to camp. “That’s my secured kill!!1!!1!”
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@CornChip said:
I think that is a very very fair punishment for dcs. I would like to see the games dcd start a little higher, like maybe starting at three dcs in ten consecutive matches.
The reason being toxic killer players could do things like afk block stairs or block survivors in a corner forcing them to dc as an extended bm.
Also there are far too many bugs in the game atm. How would it play out if you had a row of 3 man games or less mixed in with a toxic killer?
I could see some negatives with the model but i think it has potential.
Absolutely, they can’t do anything like this without leeway for bugs and hostage situations. The latter would definitely be abused a lot more by trolls and salty players. They’d have to do something where people can no longer be blocked in anywhere, that’s for sure.
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Killers would just camp the first survivor hooked out of the game though, as now the survivors can no longer bang out gens to punish them. Can’t do anything like this without addressing that aspect too. I think both sides need something additional to do, that’s how you extend the game, not just adding to one side.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/401715#Comment_401715
If that situation is happening then those players are just being really bad. That means after saving that guy the other survivor got hit TWICE and then he still got to that other guy and downed him. That's 3 hits. Those survivors really messed up if he got 2 other survivors hits worth of time to get away and still got found and downed. That isn't a tunnel.
Proxy camper comes to the hook and one shots the rescuer (whether it’s actual one shot or they were injured), then goes after the DS guy who was unhooked. If what you are saying is that original hooked guy should no longer have the 60 sec DS window...no way.
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No. You said exactly what the counter is in your scenario, leave them on the ground. If the person with DS wants to go right back to the hook and save, you didn’t spend any chase time on them at all...so what are you out by slugging them? They are removed from the game and now need an another person to pick them up. You come out ahead. Hell you could even just eat the DS, again you spent no time chasing them if they came right back to the hook.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/398696#Comment_398696
If you are downed and left someone can pick you up while he is chasing someone else.
"All your suggestion does is ensure that if you down the rescuer upon unhooking, whether it be a one shot chainsaw or they were injured, DS is gone and you can now freely tunnel me."
Or it actually ensures that you make a smart save, something quite rare these days.
Yeah, because so many killers don’t just proxy camp hooks? In these situations, the killer is always going to waiting so it’s either let them die (stupid) or go for the save when it’s never going to be truly safe because of how the killer is playing. Sorry but you shouldn’t be able to race back to the hook when you see someone coming, down the rescuer upon him making the save, and remove the unhooked persons DS. That would be BS.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/398632#Comment_398632
The problem is it's not just an anti tunnel perk, it's a 60 second immunity perk. Especially when you get down to 2 or 3 survivors left getting hit by this is inevitable whether you are tunneling or not simply because of how long it's active. Make it deactivate from the previous survivor as soon as you down another survivor. Then it would ACTUALLY be an anti tunnel perk only. This is aggravating because right now it's going to punish me and other people who don't tunnel.
No. A true anti-tunnel perk would have a much shorter clock but one that would stop in chase or when downed. All your suggestion does is ensure that if you down the rescuer upon unhooking, whether it be a one shot chainsaw or they were injured, DS is gone and you can now freely tunnel me.
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Great change, at least now an anti-tunnel perk has a chance to be useful when you are tunneled. Imagine that? A situational perk working when that situation happens?!
Still not a fan of how the clock works, but I’ll live with it with the stun at least being addressed.
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@Slipknirvana said:
Could take a page out of the unspeakable games bag. Such as finding a fuse to install in a power box in the killers basement before gens can be repaired because that makes sense. Other wise it could easily be placed around the main building in each level.
Having anything like that be in the killers basement wouldn’t make any sense. We all know damn well killers would just camp the basement and wait for someone to go down there. There’d be no harm as the survivors could not progress the game until someone goes down there.
Gen speeds are fine. If they add another objective it needs to be something BOTH sides participate in. I understand people wanting longer games, but sorry killers don’t need any more help. Also if you slow gen speed, you’ll just decrease the punishment for campers as less gets done while they are camping, so you’d have to put a stop to that as well.
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It’s very simple what they need to do to make it an actual tunneling counter. Make the timer around 30 seconds but it stops during chase or when downed, and Enduring doesn’t work against it. The shorter timer ensures that tunnelers are on the receiving end, but the tunneled survivor also isn’t cheated out of the perk. No brainer changes to a currently useless rework.
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@GrootDude said:
It’s only useless against enduring.
Oh, so it’s only useless against a very popular perk...lol.
The rework makes no sense. They tried to make it out to be a “good for the game” perk to help with tunneling, but any killer who uses Enduring completely bypasses it. I think the devs may need to take a class in logic 101
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@mooseKing said:
I think the perk was intended for lucky or skilled killers. If you run a survivor near a gen that is being worked on, then you can hook them right beside gen then kick it. Don't think it was meant to be a bonus for hooking a survivor.
Right, and it also is intended to get the killer to immediately leave the hook if there isn’t a gen right there (anti camp incentive)
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@DemonDaddy said:
For being "so weak" I have seen it used very effectively multiple times tonight. Just have to except its not a chase deterrent or safety net anymore.
@DemonDaddyYeah it’s accepted as a perk to help with tunneling. And it doesn’t work at all if the tunneling killer has Enduring. Don’t you see the problem with this? Why rework it into a perk that’s supposed to be healthy for the game, only for a tunneler to able to crush it and carry on with tunneling with zero deterrent? Doesn’t make sense does it.
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@CydoniaTV said:
It's an anti-tunnel perk now.
Basically, if a killer is gonna tunnel someone who just got unhooked or within a few seconds. It's a second chance to get away from the tunneling.
Not if the killer has Enduring it isn’t. It makes absolutely no sense. I agree that ds needed a change, and I liked the fact it was being reworked to where only killers who did something “bad” would be on the receiving end. But the fact that any killer who just slaps on Enduring completely gets around it is honestly one of the stupidest things I’ve seen them do. It is not an anti tunnel perk for this reason. I think how the clock works is questionable, but at the very least get rid of the Enduring affect. It’s common sense.
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@Free_Hugs said:
It sounds like someone burned a DS, got hit right after because they ran into a burned part of the map during the chase leading up to it, and got smacked again, and this was obviously why they lost and for no other reason.
There is counterplay to a killer having enduring while you have DS. You can scout the perk with a pallet and, if you see they have it, make sure you go down in an area of the map with fresh pallets, a nearby good set of vaults, or just focusing on breaking chase instead of looping.
This is complete nonsense. It sounds like you are very unaware at how miniscule the stun time is now. There’s nothing you can do if the killer had Enduring, you are downed within 2 seconds. Sounds like you are talking about DS prior to the rework.
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Ok, as long as this works both ways. Killers also need to stop complaining about “toxic” survivors then too. Actions that may annoy the killer can also be a legit strategy.
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Unbreakable or Borrowed Time for sure. Both are situational, but Unbreakable because it can be a game changer to a killer trying to slug. Borrowed time because it can get saves from a camping killer at the end game. Neither of these are “toxic” mind you, but BT especially can annoy a killer for sure if that’s what you are going for. An Unbreakable play where you lie near a pallet and when the killer approaches you pop up and stun him is hilarious if you pull it off.
BT is currently only annoying me though since it’s bugged.
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@altruistic said:
A lot of players complain about tunneling.
If you feel tunneled, why wouldn’t you use it?
Its extremely powerful against a Killer focused on you.
@altruistic Because if the killer has Enduring, which is a very popular perk, you are going back down in literally 2 seconds. You better have Dead Hard and hope a pallet is right in front of you or it’s right back to the hook you go. The fact Enduring works against new DS is a joke. I guess the message from the devs is we don’t want you to tunnel...unless you have Enduring then carry on.
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@xChrisx said:
Its a fair perk for the actual meta.
When they will nerf the nurse, rework legion, remove red hatchet, nerf instasaw, remove bottle oneshot, and rework the mori, to be used later the second state then i will be against this new perk
Totally agree. It’s hypocritical seeing killers lobby dodge and complain about survivor perks, then go on to use all the broken OP things you listed (and cry when there’s DCs because of it). Nerf or remove all that crap, and on the survivor side do something about insteaheals and no more key escapes.
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@DexyIV said:
It has counterplay and a given niche now (anti-tunnel) instead of a win-all get out of jail free card. It's a good perk and actually comes with some risk of it not being used, but with enormous benefit if the killer decides to play like an ass.
A punishment is not supposed to have easy counterplay, it doesn’t make any sense. It ceases to be a punishment.
Its like the devs said “killers, we don’t want you to do this so we’re going to leave you vulnerable to DS as a punishment. But....if you use your incredibly common perk or just want to slug, it’s fine.”
where is the logic here?
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@Caretaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369600#Comment_369600
Who said the game ended cuz they did the gens? You two really like making super biased assumptions and talking a whole lot of trash for people who die to NOED. There's this neat little thing in the game called, "S T E A L T H". Nurse has horrible MS and tracking. Also, if you don't run in a straight line, keep doing the SAME pattern repeatedly, sit at at a pallet and bait her blink into a stun. You'd realize she's difficult, but not impossible. Then again I don't expect survivors to actually try to learn anything. After all the devs have been holding your hands the last two years.
Ok, so if YOU are the one ending the game in 3 minutes, why do only survivors need an additional objective?! Are we adding to killer as well to prolong games? Definitely should.
Not going to discuss nurse any further, because it’s ridiculous. Anyone with sense knows she’s OP, we just live with it.
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@Caretaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369582#Comment_369582
See, most killer mains agree that they'd need tweaks after the games didn't take 3 minutes to complete. Also, no more UI elements. You're literally asking for the game to basically play itself. Use your eyes, figure out totem spawns, use THE PERK MADE TO FIND TOTEMS. They are a good secondary objective, you all are just bad players. 600 BP, bumps up to 1000 for a hex, 3k+ if you pop all 5. In a category you're probably gonna get a good chunk of BP in if you get chased at all.
The only reward should be some Lightbringer for popping totems, and a bonus if you prevent NOED. That's it. You held M1 for 14s and got 600 BP. Oh my god, woe is you. Also Nurse is fine, the problem is you can't just mindlessly run loops and camp pallets against her so oh no, you actually have to think about how to lose her/avoid her. Gasp.
Nurse is fine? Everyone who plays this game, who isn’t completely biased, knows Nurse is OP. It’s just become an accepted form of OP at this point, because it takes more time to become good. At this point people just live with it and really only complain when it’s something absurd like omega blink.
I also don’t think you should be making these snarky little remarks if your games are ending in escapes after 3 minutes. Maybe it’s you who needs to get better.
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Totems are NOT a good secondary objective because they do not properly reward the survivors. A secondary objective should not be one where the only purpose is preventing a killer perk that may or may not exist. 600bp for each dull is crap. If they want this to be a legit objective, how about throwing a few K BP bonus to all survivors when all the totems in the game have been cleansed or something.Add a totem counter as well. It has to be an objective that on its own, is worthwhile.
You gave it a good shot OP, but unfortunately it seems impossible to discuss additional objectives if there are people here who actually think Nurse is balanced. I mean....WHAT?!? You are absolutely correct that Nurse and Billy would need a nerf (nurse much more obviously) if a mandatory secondary objective were ever added.
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It’s going to be Adrenaline. What they are going to do is make it so you don’t instantly heal, but instead heal slowly for a period of time. They alluded to something like this for instaheals in the Q&A and I have no doubt it will be applied to Adrenaline if they go through with it.
After that? I’m going to say Borrowed Time. I think the usage of BT will go up after the DS nerf, and with that, the complaints as well. Killers are going to complain in droves how it’s unfair to them in the end game. It will be nerfed back to one use per game only...making it useless.
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Are we sure this isn’t a typo and is supposed to be “not”? The context of the answer I feel like its supposed to say not, not now. Why talk about what the aim of the 3 seconds was, and then just say oh it’s changed now...without explaining why. Doesn’t add up to me
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@The_Crusader said:
Can't wait for the changes. No more dribbling or having to avoid the obsession as killer, and a free F-U to any tunneling killers as survivod.
The new DS will only have any use to those are below average in chase. Everyone else majority of the time will eat up enough of their own clock running from the tunneling killer that they will just know to delay picking you up. That’s why I think the perk will start collecting dust after about a week. All it will take is getting screwed once by the clock and you won’t use it anymore.
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@TheBean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/363161#Comment_363161
The two aren't related. Just cause there is a nerf to one perk on one side of the game... doesn't mean it is a tit-4-tat situation. You fight it off by not getting caught.... twice.
Both can have great influence over a game. Why should one be nerfed and the other exists, while becoming easier to pull off now?
Dont get caught? lol. Are you really going to argue against how OP ebony moris are? Come on
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/363180#Comment_363180
That's not what I said. Stop comparing perks to offerings.
umm, ok...I don’t have any clue what your point is when one has to do with the other, but I’ll go with it.
Ebony moris are an absolute BS offering and should be changed, and green while not AS bad, is also crap. Is this better?
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shad03- It’s 100% a nerf, and big one because the timer is not implemented the way it should be.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/363161#Comment_363161
Offerings are not perks.
So that makes a mori fair?! Having DS at least gave people a chance against it, since it could extend your first chase. Now it’s just downed and hooked once, tunnel off hook, game over. It’s more OP than ever.
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It is definitely ridiculous that DS is nerfed and this stays as is. It should definitely just be final hook, or if it stays available after being hooked once, then they need to add a way the survivor can possibly fight it off. It is completely unfair otherwise. So give the survivor a chance after first hook, whether it be a skill check or whatever, but on final hook it’s automatic.
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It’s probably going to get a lot worse after the DS nerf. I think a lot of people are going to protest against OP crap like Ebonies and certain add-ons. I mean, if we’re being honest, these things should’ve been dealt with along with ds. I think survivors would’ve been more accepting to the nerf.
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Let me know how the games go, I won’t be sticking around to find out :)
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If you play solo, as I do, I can’t fault you for self care but ugh...it’s really hard to justify it without botany too. It can be agonizingly long without it.
I like to use:
Andrenaline
Balanced Landing or Lithe after the change
Borrowed Time
Those are the 3 staples for me, I can’t play anymore without BT. It’s the best feeling in the game to pull someone off the hook at the end game and watch them escape out the gate after being hit while camped. My fourth I play around with...Unbreakable, Hope, WGLF, Well Make it would be the main choices. Or Botany if I bring a medkit to really extend its use.
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I think there should be a bonus to all players when all the totems have been successfully cleansed....like a few K or whatever to everyone. Even if one person did them all...whatever. They still got the extra bp for each cleansing. Once you see that bonus pop up, you’ll also know that NOED can’t proc. So it basically would also function as a totem counter, except you wouldn’t know how many are left at any given time, only when they are completed...which is fine.
i think something like this would make cleansing totems feel more team oriented, since everyone can benefit. As it is now, if you see someone cleansing a dull, most people view it as the person is wasting their time. This would change that. People don’t want to spend time from the main objective simply to prevent a perk that may not even exist. It needs to be more rewarding on its own. Just the flat 600 bp is crap.
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You can’t report btw if someone is in the gate, hit them out. Killers don’t seem to have a problem with taunting survivors on the hook as they are struggling before they die by hitting them repeatedly. If someone is teabagging and stays so you see them, whatever...run them out. As long as they are in the gate, it’s a non issue
I always hang out at the gate if the killer camped (excluding when the gens are done), or what I would deem unfairly tunneled someone out the game. You play scummy, then I’ll be waiting to say goodbye! I’m not going to stand there for 5 minutes, but I’m defintiely not leaving right away.
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@ReikoMori said:
This is the exact reason why the game needs an escape timer. Once the exit gates are opened you have a minute and a half max to leave after that you have to get to the hatch. Then you have to get to the hatch and leave in two minutes or you just lose. That solves all this holding the game hostage nonsense.
No way. How many times has this scenario played out....NOED procs and the killer catches someone as the gate is being opened. That person gets hooked and the other survivors hunt for the totem. That person may be on first hook stage. So you’re telling after a minute and a half people can no longer exit the gate? This is nonsense. You can’t put a timer like this (unless it’s LONG) on the endgame because it’s very common for people to get saved, but the rescuer ends up hooked, and so on. Hell just the other day I crawled from the basement to the exit gate, I guess with your idea I would’ve just died lol.
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So I’ve heard Enduring doesn’t work with new DS, can anyone confirm if Enduring works against Head on?
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@artist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/359663#Comment_359663
If they really wanted it to be counter to tunneling, ds would be active until someone else gets hooked after you've been unhooked. but nah just make it about as useful as no one left behind because balance!
Well I don’t think that would be fair, cause that means a killer who’s not tunneling could get DSed.
I think it’s pretty simple how this perk should work. Shorten the clock up, I think 30 sec or so would be fine. However, it stops in chase or when downed, similarly to how Pigs bear traps work. This means the killer IS legit tunneling me, but my own ability to run (or his lack of ability to down me quickly) doesn’t effect my ability to use the perk.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/359596#Comment_359596
I play with both already,
still stupid cuz killer will just ignore u for 1 minute approx and then ur 4ss is frustrated seeing how DS is disabled lol
Yep, once that happens once to anyone, that perk will collect dust. After a week, you won’t see it much anymore. What a great counter to tunneling, when you get tunneled and still can’t use it! Lol. It’s supposed to be a punishment to the killer for tunneling, it shouldn’t be easily countered. They won’t even have to wait 60 sec if you are at all decent at running, you reach a pallet or two and you can easily eat up a large part of the clock yourself.
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@ClogWench said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/359278#Comment_359278
Stops you from being tunneled, gives you the opportunity to be picked back up again. If you get hooked endgame it gives you a free opportunity to escape. If you think it's bad you probably crutched too hard on it before the rework, and in that case I don't pity you. Head On is situational at best and once the killer knows you have it they likely won't fall for it.
It doesn’t stop you from being tunneled, because the clock keeps running on chase and when you are downed. Killer won’t even have to slug for 60 sec, you could tunnel me off hook and every second I run means the killer waits less and less to pick me up. The concept for the new DS is good, but with how the clock works it’s trash. I don’t know if I’ll use Head On, but it’s a better option than DS.
Bottomline... can you still be tunneled and be unable to use DS? Yes. That makes it crap.