Johnny_XMan
Johnny_XMan
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@IMhereRUN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1399576#Comment_1399576
I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re still wrong. Camping is only effective if the other 3 survivors let it be. If that’s the killer’s strategy, don’t feed them what they want. Survivors dictate the pace of the match, make the killer play your style. If he still persists on the camp approach, just choose a survivor to be the sacrificial lamb to die, and a free escape for 3 people.
Here is the thing though.
I just don't agree that just because a killer chooses to play a certain way, or with a certain strategy where DS counters or at best slows down their momentum... is really bad. When the survivor obviously had to waste a perk slot and the killer is playing using the game's built-in mechanics already adding to their advantage.
The game for survivors is for all survivors to attempt to escape, not to give one up simply because mechanics like that exist at the excessiveness that they are allowed to be used.
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@TwistedJoke65 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1399584#Comment_1399584
The devs said this yes, but the person who wrote this post said that until they fix camping and tunneling killers DS won't be nerfed. Therefore they are stating that DS is anti tunnel, when it's not.
I'm just stating a scenario that DS was used when I absolutely wasn't tunneling but still got punished due to the survivors incapabilities.
DS doesn't need to be nerfed it is a viable perk with an amazing Idea but I needs to be fixed to be less of a crutch and used as an actual anti tunnel because outside of preventing tunneling, it is total BS for the killer to have to deal with.
They said that because literally you can CAMP/SLUG/TUNNEL with ANY killer. Some of which those 3 it becomes boderline abusive.
I have seen killers Tunneling so much that they don't even care about DS, they STILL go for that same survivor.
So when you think about the fact that those 3 specific mechanics are free to use as a killer, you can't really tell me that you are asking for a nerf on an already nerfed perk... but you get to keep those 3 as they are.
That's what the OP is talking about.
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@martin27 said:
Don't blame people for using DS to counter tunneling & camping, but it's a bit annoying to hook someone leave, down someone else, hook them, find first person again fully heal, down them & hit by DS
Slugging runs the timer out. Also by the time you find that first survivor (contrary to what the forums will tell you) they no longer have 60 seconds.
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@TwistedJoke65 said:
Yeah a dS user gets of the hook and fully heals as I put one of their teammates on the hook. I find the DS user and down them again, and they DS me flashlight blind me and run away.
But their DS was still active so I guess I tunneled them and I'm just a toxic killer
Devs have said it's not strictly an Anti-Tunneling perk.
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@IMhereRUN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1399553#Comment_1399553
You’re missing a very solid point. While it is cheesy and doesn’t require much skill...camping and tunneling are NOT strong. In fact, it’s EXACTLY the opposite, it’s a way to guarantee the killer to lose. So having a super strong counter to something very weak is an act of lunacy.
Tell that to the red rank killers I face all the time that know how to play around BT and immediately slug a DS'er.
Camping can be a good strategy if you know how to play the game... and by that I mean play what many consider "dirty".
DS isn't perfect, but so are other killer built-in mechanics, some which DS directly counters.
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@ABannedCat said:
People don't want DS to nerfed, they want it to be adjusted to be an actual anti-tunnel perk. Things like working on a generator, or unhooking someone else should deplete the timer to zero.
The developers themselves have said that the perk is able to be used as more than just a "Anti-Tunneling Tool".
They even said it when they changed the perk to work the way it does now. Something along the lines of "If the killer finds that survivor again (who has DS) it will come down to strategy at that point".
The problem is people want to see it a certain way and are so fixated on that, that they start to believe that's the only way the perk is suppose to work.
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@IMhereRUN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/167172/for-everyone-that-wants-ds-nerfed
I see a need for the perk to remain, but your argument makes zero sense. Yes, it’s a great perk for countering tunneling. However, it’s still great to use while NOT countering tunneling.
Bare in mind, a T3 DS has a 1 minute activation...one minute!! All 5 gens can be repaired in less than 5 minutes. This means, if all 4 survivors are using DS, the killer has only 1 minute of play where he/she doesn’t have to worry about DS.
Another example: Gens are done, killer has to recover while in endgame. Everyone’s by one exit. The killer camps, survivors take turns trading hooks on a hook very close to the exit...this can activate DS for all players. Now, the killer can watch them crawl out the exit, or pick them up to eat a DS and the only chance a killer would have here is if the muffin misses the skill check....everyone escapes again.
Now, not all games are gen rushed...a lot, but not all. So let’s look at another scenario. Let’s be clear, 1 minute is a LONG time. You can get unhook...the killer goes after a teammate...hooks them. Go after ANOTHER teammate, hooks them. Goes after you, hooks...NOPE, you still have DS.
Let’s be clear about one specific point, YES, DS is a valuable tool for countering tunneling. However, the majority of the time this perk is an effect, it is being used as a free second chance that is NOT countering tunneling.
Everyone can present all kinds of scenarios in which the perk can seem strong.
Just like there are scenarios where Camping/Tunneling/Slugging happens where it was not warranted and you only did it because it is a luxury and the game allows you to do it, not because you did anything special.
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@Nurgling7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1399498#Comment_1399498
You spelled counterplay incorrectly.
Oh I must have, I was too fixated on your bias. It is just too easy to spot.
Also, how is Face-CAMPING a counterplay and to what? LMAO
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I agree.
They want limitations on a strong perk, but they want to keep their built-in mechanics the way they are (boderline abusive) because the game allows them to have them for free.
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RNG is RNG
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@C3Tooth said:
@Johnny_XMan Hag traps dont damage survivors, Trapper's do. The most dangerous add-on is Bloody coil make them injured. 10 traps while 1 Gen left will make survivor impossible to complete.
As I said, buff mass number will be too OP, Trapper should be improved in QoL, RNG, may be some bonus abilities on how he uses his traps. Not "should increase number of traps or have all traps by default"
I didn’t say increase the number of traps he can set. I said increase the number of traps that spawn on the map, so that it allows for more flexibility when choosing which one to pick up.
Essentially you will still have the same amount as you do now, except the 3-4 extras will always remain disarmed.
No other killer has to go and pick up their “power” aside from maybe Plague. Even then it’s debatable because she can injure a survivor on the spot whereas a trap only injures you unless he has an add on to put you in dying.
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I’m with the people saying he needs to start with more traps.
I would also say add like 3-4 extra traps from the total he is allowed to set because there are instances where that one last trap is out there on the opposite side. So basically there will always be 4 spare traps, that once armed auto-disarm another one from another area. Sort of like how Hag traps work.
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@WheresTheGate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397670#Comment_1397670
Nobody said the camped survivor is willingly doing it. I have a feeling you know that though. I know there are some killers that do it to troll. However, utilizing the principle of occams razor what is the simplest answer? Is it that the majority of campers are doing it to be trolls, or that camping is a way to win quickly and easily with a lot of points.
I will let it go there though. Obviously we don't agree, and that's ok.
I play both killer and survivor and my argument isn't "Who does?" or "Who doesn't". My argument is the accessibility that you can have it anytime you want vs anytime you need.
My response to the willingly part was in response to this:
"However, the reason so many people are being camped and not able to play is because survivors willingly make camping an optimal strategy for a killer to get 3 or 4 kills almost every match."
You are using survivors as making it an optimal strategy when many times the killer can just proxy the hook and get back when the survivor hasn't even landed on their feet before the unhook happens. So at which point do we stop considering it a "survivor's mistake?".... which is why I pointed to where the camping originally starts. With the camped survivor, not the other 3.
There is no simple answer. Because too many scenarios can be involved, I also don't think people are asking for camping to be completely gone. I think people are just tired of the boring games it promotes when someone just stands there...so asking for the camped survivors to make up for the points elsewhere or for there to be another option for them isn't asking for camping to be removed... as many seem to think.
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@WheresTheGate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397527#Comment_1397527
They are looking for exactly what is the most optimal way of playing the game. What is more optimal than being able to stand around and have the other side literally hand you an easy win?
I don't dispute that the camped survivor deserves a chance to play the game. However, the reason so many people are being camped and not able to play is because survivors willingly make camping an optimal strategy for a killer to get 3 or 4 kills almost every match. The consequence a killer needs to face for camping is that they don't get that optimal easy 3 or 4 kill match nearly every time they camp. The way to make that happen is for survivors to play smart.
I guarantee you if killers that camp started getting 1 kill per match, or occasionally 2 you would see a lot more survivors not be in that predicament because camping wouldn't happen nearly as often.
But asking for consequences in this situation is basically asking BHVR to punish killers because survivors play without any discernible strategy.
They are looking to troll. Not to play the game.
How exactly is the camped survivor willingly making this an 'optimal' strat when most of them get 2 kills at best?
I'll say it again. Not everyone who face camps is looking to PLAY the game. They are looking to troll. You are giving your opinion on the ones who are probably new and don't know how to play optimally. Not the ones who KNOW this isn't how you're suppose to play the game but it's more important for them to troll.
"But asking for consequences in this situation is basically asking BHVR to punish killers because survivors play without any discernible strategy."
No. I am asking for the devs to have a hard look at how easy it is to camp and abuse this built in mechanic and adjust it as they did window vaulting.
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@hahadrillgobrrr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397542#Comment_1397542
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. When I'm against swats, it really isn't playing the game when I'm just running around the map.
How is camping even comparable to an optimal team?
Do you realize one is literally just standing by the hook while the other is actually playing the game? lol
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@WheresTheGate said:
Two matches today involving camping:
1 - First survivor to get hooked gets camped. Kindred makes this obvious. Despite this 2 survivors run to unhook as fast as possible. The killer gets a free hit on the survivor that gets there first, plus he immediately hits the hooked survivor as soon as they are on the ground and hooks them again. He also camps again. If you found yourself thinking those other 2 survivors realized giving the killer free hits and hooks wasn't smart you would be wrong. They both immediately ran back to unhook again. This cycle repeats until all 3 of them are sacrificed. During that time I was able to complete 2 generators. That's it. No missed skill checks. The odds were pretty good at that point the killer was getting a 4k, and he did.
2 - First survivor to get hooked gets camped. Kindred makes this obvious. The other 3 survivors all work on generators. By the time the hooked survivor reached struggle phase 2 generators have been done and a 3rd is nearly done. One survivor swoops in and unhooks just before struggle phase starts. The survivor that unhooked was running borrowed time. Borrowed time meant the killer didn't get to immediately get a second take down and hook of the first survivor. Within moments the 3rd generator finishes. By the time the killer gets his second hook the 4th generator is done. While the killer is camping this time the 5th generator gets finished. The borrowed time survivor once again comes running in and unhooks. 3 survivors escaped. The 4th just barely missed escaping.
If someone camps as a killer and has lots of games like #1 what incentive do they have to do anything different? Survivors literally hand them easy wins. On the other hand if someone camps as a killer and has lots of games like #2 how long do you think it will take before they try a new strategy? Care to guess which type of games are way more common? If you guessed #1 you are correct. #2 is a rarity.
So..... coming from a survivor main..... I have a problem with camping, but it isn't with killers that camp. It's with survivors that don't realize camping would be a losing strategy if they would just play like they have a brain.
No one is arguing that it is a bad strat for a killer. Most people who facecamp aren't looking for "what is the most optimal way of playing the game?".
The problem lies in that, THAT camped survivor should also be able to play the game. Currently there aren't any built-in mechanics that either create a consequence for the killer camping excessively, nor that give the survivor camped options once on the hook. Not to mention in DBD those people hardly get points, let alone touch a gen if at all.
Just because 3 people can get out of a match where the filler face-camped shouldn't give a killer license to abuse a mechanic simply because they feel like it that day. In some cases it can be considered the right move, but that isn't what is being discussed here.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397007#Comment_1397007
What the Devs should do is make it so gens repair speed is increased while a killer is within 5 to 10 feet of the survivor and increase blood points by 2 times while repair gens. This would stop face camping.
This also fixes the complaint of Killers, who are camping because of overly altruistic teammates sitting in view of the hooked survivor and killer trying to make unsafe saves.
That's actually a brilliant idea. Since you know the whole testing it the other way around was "hard" to implement. 😂
I would also be ok if the killer who did leave the hook to go kick a gen was rewarded with not only regressing the gen (as it does now) but also adding a slow down effect on the gen itself for x seconds. That way the legit killers who want to win get rewarded for playing the game.
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@CyanideBlaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1396991#Comment_1396991
You right, I did. I am irked, is what it is.
Idk, I don't like watching another survivor being camped because I don't like when I'm the one being camped and I guess I should stop trying, but it irritates me to see and I feel like it's an abuse of system mechanics and a waste of everybody involved's time.
You only have to play killer to understand how easy it is to camp.
I did yesterday just to prove a point and let them all go at the end because I was just testing it out. I am fixing to make certain videos to show how awfully broken it is.
You just have to pretend you are leaving the hook and come back when you think someone will be there. That takes 1-2 survivors off gens because they won't immediately recognize that you are camping. So by that point they will all be either trading hooks or all going down. I was playing Plague who I main, so breaking people right at the hook wasn't hard. In the end I apologized to them for playing like that, and let them fix the rest of the gens.
So the whole "fix all the gens while the camped survivor dies" is not a strat, a strat would suggest that the killer has intention of winning, which they usually don't. They are doing something that is borderline griefing and to make it an unfun time for the hooked survivor. This is why if I know someone is getting camped, I will trade hooks to give the rest of the survivors extra time (usually they all get out) I have almost 4k hours in this game so I could care less if I live or die, and especially in a match I don't really consider a "real" match.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1396953#Comment_1396953
It absolutly sucks. I've had it happen so many times since I play solo. Even with Kindred active, they still try waste time to get me off. It's not fun, and despite what people say about it 'being a tactic', when 5 Gens are left and you get facecamped to death, that's not a tactic. That's called being a prick.
It's called abusing a built-in mechanic.
Can you imagine how much killers would <bleep> if vaulting went back to the way it was where there was no entity blockers on windows?
This isn't any different. There should be some type of consequence that benefits the HOOKED survivor. They wanna play the game too.
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Bring DS and Unbreakable + A styptic if your teammate doesn't have BT.
Until the devs actually recognize how abusive and easy of a playstyle it is to do. Those perks will remain meta.
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@HarleyQuinn said:
I get some people are excited at the idea but holy crap I’m tired of hearing about fnaf in these forums 😂
I don't even know who Stringtrap is lol
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Meta perks exist because of how RNG based the game is in many aspects like map/playstyles/built-in mechanics/lottery survivors.
Here are some scenarios for perspective:
..........From the survivor side...........
Survivor : Doesn't bring DS, but gets tunneled because the killer knew there was no obsession.
(next 3 matches the survivor gets tunneled again)
Tunneling Killer 1: 😈
Tunneling Killer 2: 😈
Tunneling Killer 3: 😈
Survivor: "Next Time I am bringing DS."
Non-Tunneling Killer: Get's DS'd and didn't play 'scummy' nor did he deserve it as much as that other tunneling killer did.
...........From the killer side...........
Killer: Doesn't bring Pop or Ruin while playing Trapper.
Survivor A: Brings DS/Unbreakable combo into a match along with a map offering to Haddonfield.
Killer: Gets bad map set up, and efficient survivors who get all gens done not giving him enough time to get all his hooks. Gets one kill.
(Next 3 matches, killer gets the same type of teams)
Killer: "Next time I am bringing Oni with an ebony mori and a slugging build."
Non-DS Survivors: Get camped, Sluggged excessively. All they had was perks like Quick n Quiet and Dance with Me. They all die and never once try to play reckless.
So you see, this is how the game works. It happens more than often because players start to get competitive. Does this mean there aren't things that aren't balanced? Sure there are. I just don't see how they would ever be able to balance something like perks without making something else weaker/stronger, and especially when you built-in mechanics and when you have no clue who/how players are going to play in your next trial.
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Ok?
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@hahadrillgobrrr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1392395#Comment_1392395
People don't get face camped every game. And even when they were, they still played the game. They aren't entitled to certain time on map without being on hook. Yes it sucks when you go on the hook in first 2 mins and get face camped when it happens but you still very much played the game.
I never said they did. What I did say is that you cant pre-determine in a lobby how a killer is going to play.
Camping and Tunneling can be done with any killer with some becoming boderline abusive. I am not saying it happens all the time. I am saying if people start to experience it over and over, it gets old quick and people start to realize that meta perks are meta because of this playstyle that they can't predict until they are inside the match.
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As long as tunneling and camping is in the state that it is in. Meta perks will remain meta.
That's why I have 0 sympathy for people who complain about DS and BT, because you cannot predict what type of player (yes, player not killer) you're going to get. So if you get camped match after match, why wouldn't you think you need something to counter it?
Other survivors doing gens doesn't fix the fundamental issue that the player on the hook literally is not playing the game. They entered a match already on a hook as bait.
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@Yamaoka said:
Took him long enough to understand how to play Bubba.
Was gonna say... how is this just being discovered? 😂
Where are my Leatherface mains at??
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i don’t know why this post made me giggle. 🤣
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@4fingeredfreddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1386699#Comment_1386699
See youre literally just an internet prick. Literally all you are. You start a fight, lose, and just say some ridiculous nonsense to try to get out of it. Absolute cretin.
#unbothered
Go back a couple of pages ago where I already gave you my reply.
I am LGBTQ and consider me not needing “protection” against the people who would normally show their hate and bigotry regardless of who I am playing. Stop trying to suppress the presence of someone else’s lifestyle, because of your own fears.
Also, for future reference just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they want to “fight”. Maybe learn some proper forum etiquette and then come back and have a discussion without your unnecessary name calling.
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In certain situations it is strong much like other things that make killers strong in situations. So I think for me it is balanced.
If I am the killer and someone unhooks one my face they are trading hooks because I am not going to go for the unhooked person, they can try to take a hit and all I need to do is wait 15 seconds for them to go down again.
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@4fingeredfreddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1351672#Comment_1351672
Sorry took a hiatus from the forums, but no youre still wrong and just trying to pick a fight. The only problem here is my phrasing, but if youi were smart enough youd understand my meaning regardless, though i shoudve been smart enough to know you wouldnt.
My point was that bringing in something like this would provide more negative experiences for the LGBT COMMUNITY, not for anyone else. MEANING it will NOT effect ANYONE BUT THE LGBT COMMUNITY in a negative light. MEANING IM TRYING TO PROTECT THEM FROM THIS. Stop trying to make me out to be a bad guy. Youre literally just here to start a fight you cant even win. And its honestly pretty pathetic.
So you came back to start more drama?
Get a grip and move on.
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I forget which tier but I’m on the last page. Hoping go get through it this weekend. 😀
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I still get a festive vibe for this event and while I am thankful for the devs working their butts off and doing so while we’re in the middle of a pandemic which inevitably means many of them working from home.... I do have to agree with some that the ‘crown’ looks odd and not aesthetically pleasing to the eye (IMO).
I do however, love the anniversary items! So I’m definitely hunting for those.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1384276#Comment_1384276
So if it was based on proximity, all they had to do is have the effect not proc when another survivor is within proximity. That’s it.
The radius would have to be so big that it would ultimately defeat the purpose.
Tests are fine but just because that one test didn’t work still doesn’t solve the issue at hand and it is not the only option
The tests showed that the idea was flawed to begin with.
They could also give survivors more tools to either avoid being face camped or deal with it in some way.
Survivors do have those tools. They're called "stealth" and "rushing gens", respectively.
You only need to be subject to it to truly understand how frustrating it is to feel like you just hang on a hook without playing the game.
I'm a survivor main, despite what people may think. I've been subject to slugging, camping, real face camping, hook farming, sandbagging, betrayal (survivor giving away my position in a locker), and so on. However, camping is a survivor-created problem and has a solution: rush gens. If survivors were willing to bite the bullet just this once, it'd make a better game for everyone.
"The radius would have to be so big that it would ultimately defeat the purpose."
Nope. Why would it need to be bigger? Half the time when a killer sees a survivor nearby the hook is because the killer stuck around. How on earth is anyone suppose to unhook someone if they don't come within proximity of the hook???
The radius does not need to be big because IF the killer does not leave the 15 meter radius (a choice they made), they are camping whether there is a t-bagging survivor beyond that point or not. If the killer goes for that survivor then the effect does not proc, if another survivor tries to save in the meantime, it doesn't proc.... and when it does proc, it will depend on how long the killer has actually stayed within the hook radius. Many times when a survivor goes for an unhook and sees a killer just standing there, they will either leave or try to save either way because a survivor has been forced to phase 2. So, if the killer is not wanting to chase they are camping. It's pretty simple.
"Survivors do have those tools. They're called "stealth" and "rushing gens", respectively."
Let me specify since I don't think the point is getting through. THAT survivor being face-camped should have other options. No one wants to play bait on a face-camping broken mechanic.
"I'm a survivor main, despite what people may think. I've been subject to slugging, camping, real face camping, hook farming, sandbagging, betrayal (survivor giving away my position in a locker), and so on. However, camping is a survivor-created problem and has a solution: rush gens. If survivors were willing to bite the bullet just this once, it'd make a better game for everyone."
A Killer spawns in a map. Killer downs and hooks a survivor. Killer doesn't want to go anywhere else. Even though the other 3 survivors are on gens... in what world is that a survivor-created problem? ? Come on now.
Rushing gens still doesn't solve the issue of the one survivor not being able to play the game. Survivors do bite that bullet more than once, doesn't take away the fact that it is broken and that killers shouldn't just be able to camp because they feel like it.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1384189#Comment_1384189
If memory serves, they based it off of proximity. However, regardless of how they did it, the problem arose because survivors could force killers to stand near the hook without they themselves being in any danger. Survivors can reveal their positions without actually being in sight via scratch marks and noise bubbles, for example.
The problem with the idea has to do with its core concept: punishing the killer during the trial for being near the hook. That's what the test showed. No amount of "what if they try X" can change that.
So if it was based on proximity, all they had to do is have the effect not proc when another survivor is within proximity. That’s it.
That encourages the killer to leave the hook, while still be able to proxy camp. Tests are fine but just because that one test didn’t work still doesn’t solve the issue at hand and it is not the only option, They could also give survivors more tools to either avoid being face camped or deal with it in some way.
Face camping is a problem in the game, so no amount of data is going to change that fact. You only need to be subject to it to truly understand how frustrating it is to feel like you just hang on a hook without playing the game. I’m willing to bet most people who are face camped would gladly die, if it meant that it was an interactive experience for them.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1384164#Comment_1384164
Listen, that was literally attempted and failed. There's no arguing with objective test data. What more do you want for you to accept that the idea is just bad?
First off, that was a response to someone else. So please calm down.
Second, it was but it is not what I am talking about. They based it off of a chase, correct?
This isn’t that. This is legitimately a killer standing in stationary position, with no other survivor in sight. Period.
I agree with you on some things, but this is not one of them, and especially when I feel that you keep repeating the same thing without substantial evidence of a different idea than what was tested. Did that test include another survivor not being in sight? Again... no it did not.
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@Golden_spider said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1383703#Comment_1383703
So if I stood just outside of 15 meters forcing the Killer to stand inside said range because someone else nearby could also go for the unhook then the Killer still is punished by losing their hook or said hook has zero progress because they "camped".
Oooh wait they already tried it and was abused that way and had to remove it.
If they're camping then be a smart Survivor and wait on hook for as long as possible, if someone else is being camped go repair a generator.
Camping only works if Survivors let it work.
As I stated before if you are a survivor outside of 15 meters it would force the killer to chase you which is the entire point of the penalty system.
If you are doing it to bait the killer so that another survivor goes for the save, the effect will automatically stop.
I don’t understand how that is abusing exactly? If the killer chooses to stay at the hook and not move beyond 15 meters to chase then that is camping. It’s no different than if you weren’t there.
I’ll say it again in case it wasn’t clear enough. Another survivor would HAVE to enter the 15 meters in order for them to unhook, at which point the effect will not proc. If the killer has been inside those 15 meters for some time, they have no intention to chase anyone else. If there is only one survivor and they are just “hanging out” outside of 15 meters, killer could just move too and wait, now the survivor is wasting time and the survivor on the hook is not getting a buff for being camped.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1383703#Comment_1383703
Wouldn't change anything. The way it was abused proved one very simple fact: debuffing the killer for being near the hooked survivor will not work.
I’m not exactly sure how it was abused, but I imagine you mean survivors were just hovering around the hook.
By not having the survivor around the hook the killer is getting a penalty, much like if you try to vault a window multiple times the window gets entity blocked.
As I said, if survivors are being reckless and just “dancing” around the hook, then yes nothing should change. it would remain the same as it is now.
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What if the timer activated if no other survivor is nearby within those 15 meters?
This way the other survivors wouldn’t just be reckless and run around the hook.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1381976#Comment_1381976
Piping means nothing. lmao How about we stop acting like its the actual goal of playing or a sign of "winning". Most Killers don't even want to rank up too much because it gets too toxic.
Killers' Objective is to Kill Survivors and its easier to do that when there are three. Mathematically the game swings wildly in the Killers favor once the first Survivor is Killed. This encourages Tunneling.
I mean you each their own but if pipping means nothing why is it in the game?
You can earn maximum points by pipping, not just getting 4ks.
In fact, the part you are right about is that pipping means nothing to those killers who only want to tunnel because the game allows them to abuse this action because all they care about is killing before the survivor could get decent points.
Tunneled survivors aren’t getting saves or heals or fixing gens for that matter. That is the bottom line... and why most don’t care if they die, but seems unfair when you can’t even land your feet when being unhooked because the killer is already on their way back.
Perspective on the problem is not one-sided.
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@SewerSwans said:
Fantastic analysis. If you want to stop tunneling, make it not optimal to do! My DbD balancing dream might be a strong trial warmup mechanic so I could actually exert pressure before gens gain substantial progress. On top of this, a dramatic speed-up to gen repair speeds, but the first time you hook a survivor it permenantly and dramatically damages their ability to repair. So there's an actual tactical decision between 'hook diversely to slow gens' vs 'rush a kill'. Currently, rush a kill is the ideal choice.
Alternatively, recently hooked survivors could suffer slower repair speeds and possibly be given another objective, meaning you counter gen pressure more by not tunneling someone out.
Except that tunneling isn’t always the optimal thing to do. You can’t split pressure if you ain’t chasing anybody else.
Many times killers who go out of their way (break chases, throw the game) just to tunnel off the hook is because they are targeting one survivor for whatever the reason may be.
You don’t win if you tunnel in every situation, and because of that DS at that point is fair game.
This is why DS isn’t an “anti-tunnel” perk because if it was it would force the killer to stop tunneling, which it doesn’t.
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It’s balanced when you consider that you can experience slow down ‘forever’ builds coming from the opposite side.
Example:
Thana/Blood Echo/Ruin/Sloppy Butcher.
Its a matter of RNG and skill at that point. Why RNG? Because you might encounter the other side brought something to counter it. Plus if they are actually good at killer, you being one shot away from a down could put the team at a huge disadvantage.
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Until they actually do something about Tunneling and Camping being so abused as accessible as it is. I'm afraid it's going to be the experience for many events to come. I'm sorry you've had bad games, these events seem to make players more sweaty.
My suggestion would be to bring a medkit, and play with a swf group. That guarantees that you won't end up with unreliable teammates.
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I feel for you. Your idea is actually not that bad, but you are always going to have these players who say stuff like "Don't get caught", but the minute anyone mentions DS "Oh no that's abuseable". Like what? 🤣
My advice? Ignore those posts and respond to the people who actually add to the conversation. That's what I do anymore when I post on these forums.
As for your idea. I think it's good the only thing I would add is that no other survivor is near, it should proc if the killer has been stationary for x amount of seconds. I would also say that they should make it built-in like other mechanics exist to stop abusable tactics like window blockers, bloodlust etc.
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DS is fine as it is.
It's not suppose to act strictly as an anti-tunneling "tool". Devs have already stated that, and the person's idea you are referring to was also told that, and his response was: "They don't know what they are talking about". So I doubt they even understand why DS even exists in this game.
DS changes aren't going to fix the way in which Tunneling/Camping are abused in this game. You are only looking at it from the one perspective where survivors decide to play risky in which most cases they fail.
Not every single survivor who gets tunneled is going to expect you to come back to the hook, but its also not fair for someone who just got unhooked and suddenly gets spotted so the killer decides to break chase with the rest of the survivors just because they are on death hook.
I can give you a list of reasons where tunneling/camping isn't warranted.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1380739#Comment_1380739
Well that was an aggressive reply considering I was just answering the OPs question...and I don't run either of these perks rn?
You must have fans in these forums. They didn't even give a response to the OP, instead judged someone else's opinion. lmao
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DS because as long as killers can have the ability to Camp/Tunnel, it won't stop them from doing it by not having it.
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Maybe the devs should create a perk to counter T-Bagging with how many people complain about an animation. Lol
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@GoatMaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1376219#Comment_1376219
Logical or not, it is in my opinion that the longer the game, the more fun I have. It's not rare that I deliberately let survivors escape when they make a dumb mistake after being unhook, give them a chance. I just don't find how it's supposed to be fun to win after 5 minutes.
I understand exactly what you're saying.
It seems to me that providing an example of what "Tunneling" isn't which in other words no one is saying "Play this way", but Tunneling is a rampant problem with this game because of how easily accessible it is. I constantly have killers who would rather break chase with me to go for a 'tunnel off the hook', but then want to claim a skill level they clearly don't have based on the fact that they chose to abuse a mechanic that enables them to do that with little consequence.
So to me, even if your opinion is as logical as it can be, to some players winning means killing 4. To others having fun during the match and maybe getting 2-3 kills is a win. In your case, I agree with you. People complain and say "Genrushing is a big issue when matches last for 4 mins" but those same people have no problem downing and killing 4 people in that amount of time because they Camped/Tunneled etc. Think about that for a second. :)
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I think it would be really cool to see one. 💄
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Isn't there something a long the lines of ..."by whatever means necessary....kill so and so"?