Johnny_XMan
Johnny_XMan
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@Monarch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920939#Comment_1920939
You literally said they nerfed DS but whatabout this, how is that not whataboutism.
Also a comparison does not mean I'm bring keys into this argument I'm saying what you're doing is this that killers were doing in the mori nerf and just in general.
Also bruh, just in general.
Then you obviously didn't understand the point of the thread.
DS counters Tunneling (or it's suppose to) It doesn't. Even the old dare I say busted DS doesn't do that. It merely delays the tunnel. So I explain my points about how they are adding even more conditions to a perk that didn't do it's job in the first place and you call it whataboutism. Fine, I'll give you that.
It still doesn't negate the relevancy it has because abusive camping resulted in more players feeling inclined to bring those perks.
"Also bruh, just in general."
Yeah. Ok.
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@Monarch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920401#Comment_1920401
This is the key mori argument all over again,if all you want is something to be changed cuz something else was, then why don't you fight for what you want instead of complaining about this change. Is there any reason other than you don't want DS to be changed cuz you didn't see a problem with it, or are you literally whataboutism-ing everyone on a change you don't care about? You've confused me.
It is not the key/mori argument again, actually what you are doing, IS. Nobody had even talked about keys and moris until you said something. See Tunneling and DS go hand to hand because they are related to each other. One soft counters the other. Keys and Moris aren't related to each other at all. Plus this isn't the conversation for that.
Bringing up a discussion, is part of showing relevancy and acknowledgement that a problem exists. The discussion isn't about DS and it's changes, it is about Camping and Tunneling remaining the same in their boderline abusive forms. DS comes into the picture, because they have literally nit-picked random rare situations in which DS is no longer becomes an anti-tunnel perk. Yet, the choice to Tunnel a survivor out is still there with no downside... all this when the devs claim they want the choice to be a balanced threat. It currently isn't.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920862#Comment_1920862
Sure it goes both ways.
But it's more satisfying when overpowered survivor perks are nerfed because of all the favoritism survivors enjoy.
I don't think it is satisfying either way tbh. As someone who plays both sides pretty consistently (rank 1) I see both sides and their concerns.
There is a degree of epicaricacy in these forums, that I would rather not fuel. It doesn't help balancing the game and certainly doesn't make these forums a less toxic place.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920829#Comment_1920829
I've been here longer than you, and I even I don't have that many posts (3000 is a lot).
Anyway, the reason I said survivors were salty was because it was the only logical answer to OP's question. Why would anyone who is knowledgeable about the game be upset over the DS changes? It's because those people were abusing the perk and now they can't abuse it anymore. Simple.
Also, for the record Ruin did not deserve a nerf. Killers used Ruin because it partially remedied one of the core issues with DbD (aka gen rushing). The only compensation killers got from the devs was a toolbox nerf and a few other minor changes.
Not everyone who is upset at the DS changes were abusing the perk. I for one, only care because they didn't adjust the thing it counters from a core mechanics perspective, even though that can be easily abused.
As for Ruin, I agree. Ruin didn't need a nerf. The reason I brought it up is because of the implication that "survivors get salty when something gets changed". When Ruin got nerfed, the pages were filled with complaints, which some like you would classify as "salty".
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920821#Comment_1920821
The problem with DbD at higher levels of play is that it's generally quite fast paced.
Time is a limiting factor for the killer so camping and tunneling is needed to a certain degree in order to deal with that.
Completely removing camping and tunneling would therefore force the killer to hook everyone 3 times in order to win which just isn't possible in the current state of the game.
And DbD always worked in the way that you are forced to use specific perks to counter certain things.
Don't want to be tunneled?
Use DS
Don't want to deal with infinites (back then) ?
Use Bamboozle
etc.
You hit a very important point.
Regarding infinites... something that is no longer here. Why? Because it was not balanced. They required specific perks to half way deal with them and while breakable doors are not what I would have chosen (a conversation for another day) they got adjusted. That is all survivors ask for when they have complaints against Camping and Tunneling.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920386#Comment_1920386
Their attempt specifically confirmed that the game breaks if the killer can't tunnel and camp, and that tools specifically exist to stop it. Mainly, gen pressure.
If the killer is unable to defend objectives, killer gameplay breaks, because ALL THE KILLER CAN DO IS DEFEND OBJECTIVES. That is killer gameplay! The survivors have broad map presence but weak power, the killer has narrow map presence and strong power.
If you wanna unhook, you gotta earn it. If you have 3 survivors just running around the hook and no gens are getting done, GG EZ get WRECKED. If you got 1 person waiting by the hook and 2 people power doing gens the killer either has to commit to the chase with you to prog the game further or lose, and either way the survivor 'collective' wins there.
If you unhook and immediately hide? Or don't bodyblock? Congrats, your a terrible teammate! The killer isn't a machine, they have a right to play to win and not go out of their way to lose to you, and its DELIBERATELY EASIER to kill injured survivors due to the noise and the trail, so if you don't protect them they WILL die.
Like they said flat out after doing this experiment they are never going to do more to stop camping and tunneling for this reason. So don't twist this around to 'something will clearly come.'
Play at red ranks for even a day and you will see survivors who are very good at forcing the killer not to camp. And some who aren't, because ranks are a joke and its easy to climb. But its where you start seeing survivors who can actually play the game well and do things to punish killer behavior, and it makes it so clear that camping and tunneling isn't a problem for good survivors, because they know how to earn those second chances.
So are you saying those who don't abuse Camping and Tunneling are just lucky killers with 0 skill who just somehow managed a 4k? Because that is what it sounds like to me.
Let's be clear about one thing. I never said I want Camping and Tunneling removed. I said it should have a downside, or be toned down to NOT constantly feel as though you have to bring the SAME set of perks. Even in the latest stream the devs state "We want a balanced threat"... right now you can bleed someone out without there even being a reason to. You can Camp someone, meanwhile the rest hold M1 for the rest of the match. Not only is that boring, but far from balanced.
Not feeding a Camping killer doesn't take away how busted the mechanic is, let alone the person on the hook not having ANY other choice.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920796#Comment_1920796
You said you don't partake on the forum much, and yet you have over 3000 posts?
Also, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Survivors have a history of getting salty when their overpowered perks get nerfed.
I mean, I don't. I don't come on here every single day of the week.
The point that I am making is that you only think survivors are salty because DS being nerfed is the flavor of the week. When Ruin got nerfed, it wasn't survivors complaining.
Having a different opinion isn't being salty. Being salty is being immature about the feedback you give. If it's constructive why does it bother you?
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920740#Comment_1920740
Well,kind of.
But this game isn't designed to be 12 hook every game.
It would require an insane amount of work to do so.
I guess they get punished for trying to bring more casual perks, rather than addressing a blatant issue.
That's how DbD always worked though.
I am not understanding what 12 hooks has to do with a survivor being in a cage being in the same position as that survivor who brought more casual perks. Meaning no BT, no DS.
DBD hasn't always worked this way. The devs themselves want there to be a threat, but a balanced threat. Camping to a certain extent isn't balanced, same as Tunneling.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
Survivors tend to get a little upset when their crutches are taken away. Just give them some time to accept reality.
Survivors complained about Ruin, and the most recent upcoming Undying nerf?
I know I don't partake on the forums much, but I am pretty sure those were killers complaining.
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Because others are allowed to have a different opinion. I thought these were forums for feedback?
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920416#Comment_1920416
Reverse bloodlust and temporary debuffs... Alternatively make DS base, make the timer 15 seconds but make it pause if killer chases you. Alternatively make BT base and make it work on every unhook.
Thats the only way to fix tunneling. If killer knows that everybody has DS or BT (or both) it might deter them from doing it.
I honestly would have rather DS be a basic "base" option with a much lower timer and the adjustments it got. This way the other survivors know the person camped has a decent option at playing the game.
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@XombieRocker said:
Pyramid Head's cages were nerfed specifically because they ignored things like BT and DS. Having PH know exactly where they were and be able to just sit around them was camper/tunnel heaven. Now that he can't see the cages and they move if he finds them, they are less broken.
So it's not really a 1:1 comparison, since hooks are affected by BT and DS.
So what about survivors who simply don't want to bring those perks? Are they not in the same scenario as those who are caged?
I guess they get punished for trying to bring more casual perks, rather than addressing a blatant issue.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920396#Comment_1920396
2 minutes on the hook is more than 3 gens for a smart team, friendo. And thats not counting the time that first chase and hook takes.
Are you implying that every single match progresses the same way?
What if they have slow down perks? What if they didn't immediately camp? Too many variables to imply that camping and tunneling is black and white.
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@Ramxenoc445 said:
They said in the stream they're never doing that because the game would get boring and sometimes camping is a legitimate strat and if people wanna tunnel they can. You've just gotta get better at dealing with it. Also there are perks to deal with both of these things that help make you harder to catch or harder to camp or tunnel.
I just watched the video. They said they would never remove these, they never said they didn't need to be adjusted.
Everyone is in agreement that in some instances they can become strategies. To put it into perspective, I'll use the example they used "Sometimes killers know someone is waiting to get the save or run into their face".... sometimes that isn't the case at all. Sometimes the killer knows fully well where the other survivors are and still decide to camp.
Nobody is asking the choice to be taken away, just toned down. Just like they did to DS.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920386#Comment_1920386
it was tested Waaaay before. then it was hardcore abused by survivors who would just wait next to a hook with the killer right there, It does not need to come back At all
Nobody is asking for it to come back. I used it as an example that developers wouldn't attempt to do something if they didn't think it was a problem. It wouldn't have made it past the drawing board if that was the case.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920464#Comment_1920464
I've read through a decent chunk of those ideas and usually there are some major flaws to them.
Main issue with tunneling/camping is matchmaking. If you put two equally good players against each other, they should take healthy amount of time in a chase before going down depening on who played better. Unfortunately, matchmaking puts potaotes vs good killers far more often then it should and they get tunneled and camped because they're easy prey and their teammateas also play into it.
I would love to see more anti tunneling mechanics but not one that waste time but one that helps survivors end chases and get away as that is the only way to not get tunneled. Juke the killer to the point where he loses LOS of you, a killer tha can't chase you can't camp/tunnel you.
Thing is even when survivors are good at chases or playing optimal, I've seen red rank killers still abuse mechanics like Camping/Tunneling/Slugging. I've seen survivors get slugged through the end of their dying state timer simply because the killer felt like it.
My main point with this thread is to speak up about how the current changes to DS only reflect a healthy balance for one side, without acknowledgement of the problem that continues on the other side. There are currently 0 anti-tunneling mechanics (not perks) to help survivors, so it would be nice if survivors could get some type of perk-less option so they didn't feel inclined to bringing the same perks.
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@Karao_Ke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920477#Comment_1920477
Then specify when it's fair & not fair to you, because we can't read your mind. You obviously don't approve of it at the beginning of the match, no?
With that being said, what do you think the devs should do about it? If you can come up with a constructive fix for it, then more people might agree with you. I just don't see how it's possible given the fact that the devs won't know if it's necessary or not in the match.
The devs tried to implement a "Hook Camping" nerf, it didn't work.
That just shows that they are in agreement that it is something that should be addressed. I am not here to try to "prove" a point that has already been proven. Everybody already knows that Camping and Tunneling can and are abused during matches.
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@PerfectlyPink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920469#Comment_1920469
Didn't come to trash, just saying that you're complaining without giving a solution. If you had an idea, people could actually discuss with you, but instead you make a thread that is boarderline, bait
Same message applies.
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@DoritoHead said:
How do you nerf a behavior?
For one, I would slow down the survivor's struggle time if ALL other 3 survivors are holding M1 and the killer is making themselves idle at the hook.
That's one.
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@Karao_Ke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920409#Comment_1920409
What point are you trying to prove here? If camping and tunneling is justifiable when the match is coming to a close (which it is) & not at the beginning of the match, then how are the devs supposed to make a fix? How are the devs supposed to know if it's okay to do it or not?
I've very confused as to how you want them to fix this.
I never specificed which part of the match it was.
If there are 5 gens up and a killer just feels like camping not acknowledging that there are other survivors to chase, that isn't being "strategic", that is abusing a mechanic that exists with 0 downsides for doing so.
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@PerfectlyPink said:
Sounds like whining to me, unless you actually give an idea to deal with camping or tunneling.
I'm going to address you the same as I did a previous poster.
If you come here to try to trash on threads, this isn't the one for you.
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@Kebek said:
You talk about it as it would be something really simple. It's not, a good healthy change that wouldn't negatively affect neither each side is extremely hard to create for both. You can't just slap on a number change that benefits one side and ruins the game for the other and call it a day, it was tried and it didn't work.
But if you have any clever GOOD ideas on how to adress them, start writing.
Considering many ideas have been brought to the table already, and some of my own with BOTH sides in mind. I am not holding my breath.
I was always for an adjustment to DS, AS LONG as they also adjusted Camping and Tunneling and gave survivors more options, aside from bringing the same perks.
And if I do have clever ideas I do bring them up. That's what the forums are for right? :)
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@Rittihilatti said:
Campers will camp unti it pays off.
Its 2021 and it still pays off.
If you missed the latest dev video, they made it pretty clear they do not consider camping, tunneling, slugging as a problem.
Maybe its time to do some gens.
Time to do gens and what? Give the killer a 2nd kill because you didn't have enough time?
It's time to stand up and speak up.
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@Elena said:
I disagree that survivors are "forced" to bring in perks that help them fight against camping and tunnelling as naturally it's their choice if they want to bring those perks or not. Plus, in my games I rarely get camped or tunnelled, of course it's different for others but I've never felt forced to bring a perk simply to stop the killer tunnelling me.
And what do I do if I'm put against a camper and/or tunneller? Camper, I suck it up as it's only a game there are plenty more matches for me that will probably be different. Tunneller, I try my best to utilize loops and pallets as much as I can to waste the killer's time and allow my teammates to repair generators.
Of course it's the survivor's choice. I never once questioned that. It is a known fact that you simply cannot counter Camping and Tunneling unless you use perks like BT and DS. That's why they remain meta.
I am glad to hear you are one of a few cases that doesn't get Camped or Tunneled. Still doesn't take away how it can be abused.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920386#Comment_1920386
The thing is,how are they supposed to do that?
They tried some things because they know it can be frustrating to deal with but those thing were easily able to be abused so they had to scrap these ideas.
If the devs intend to change DbD to a 12 hook game then we would have to change a LOT of other things to make it happen.
As you see,it's waaay to complicated to even try changing it.
For one, I would make it work ONLY if survivors are holding M1 on a gen. That's all they had to do.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
Oh right, I know what you're thinking.... "but there are perks that can help against hook camping!" ... You mean the very same meta perks survivors are forced to bring in order to have a decent chance at not playing sacrificial survivor for the entirety of a match?
You can literally say the same about the killer gameplay.
At higher levels of play you are also forced to run some form of gen slowdown in order to stand a chance.
This game revolves about bringing the right perks
What exactly do you mean?
I actually don't agree with that at all. I can agree on it from a killer to killer perspective, because someone like Spirit or Billy doesn't need Ruin as much as someone like Trapper or Pig, for example.
The point is that they are not doing anything to address core mechanics that force survivors to have to bring the same perks in the first place. Instead they are nerfing the perks without addressing what's also broken on the other side. Also, they have already announced a trial warm up coming "soon" so that should alleviate some of that concern.
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@lostboy said:
Never. At times camping & tunnelling is a necessary strategy in order to get the upper hand when a game could otherwise be thrown and lost.
It is. I agree.
However, the Camping and Tunneling I am talking about is the type where the killer has no warranted reason to use them.
They do it because they CAN. That should be changed.
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@Theninjajesus said:
Decisive Strike has outlasted...
Old Ruin
New Ruin with Undying
Undying
Legion
Legion
Legion
Pop Goes the Weasel
Moris
Billy
Old Freddy
New Freddy
Cry me a F'N river.
If you are looking for a thread to trash on this is not the right one for you.
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@DBD78 said:
Camping is not the best strategy so does not need to get nerfed. And new DS is all about anti tunneling so all is good on both fronts.
We all know it's not but it doesn't stop killers from abusing it. So since they changed DS because of it's 'abuse-able' feature, I am bringing up the very thing DS is countering that is also abusable.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
The nerf to tunneling and camping is when you get good and do gens.
It's not, but thanks at the attempt of providing actual constructive feedback.
/s
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@Verconissp said:
Until other stuff get changed about survivor. camping and tunneling won't Ever be changed my guy,
They have attempted something before but gave up on it. So my guess is they know it needs to change. Or why would they bother even attempting it?
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All I have to say is the developers did it to themselves.
They don't do anything about Camping/Tunneling from a CORE mechanic perspective. Why isn't this a change implemented as built in for survivors? Why are survivors obligated to have AT LEAST one person bring DS in a match simply because the killer "MAY" camp. It's absurd.
It's funny how they have an issue with Pyramid's cages being camped, but hooks... hooks are fine. Since you know everyone will have DS right?
The mere fact that they even attempted to do an experiment on hook camping is proof that they DO think Hook Camping can be abused.
Now watch this... MORE players will bring DS/UB and will stay off gens to make reckless plays like killers continue crying about. DS was never an issue for smart killers who knew how to counter it. All while DS was never strictly an anti-tunnel perk. The devs themselves said this before.
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Survivors can adapt, and have adapted more than killer mains have, so no.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1917770#Comment_1917770
Nurses only has 28 meters, stay out of TR before you heal. Without leading a trail to you the killer won't know which way you went.
I play both sides and the change seems fine.
You play both sides but you tell the other side to “suck it up”. Nothing biased at all. 👍
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Apparently, just like you know how people like to say “DS makes you invincible” 🙄 you can also now STOP the killer from tunneling you. 😮
I mean, like completely, like you can rest assured you will not be immediately followed after they take the stun. Phew
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1917735#Comment_1917735
Thats not what they did if they got found so easily. You're assuming the killer knows where they are right away and finds them before the heal finishes. Maybe don't leave a trail of scratch marks leading straight to you.
If you have time to hide and feel safe enough to heal someone else you're not being tunneled, DS shouldn't activate.
I know it’s only been a couple of lines above you but I did suggest the killer has Nurse’s Calling. It doesn’t matter how careful you are, a killer can easily spot you from a decent distance.
Point still remains. I play both sides and this change seems absurd.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1917702#Comment_1917702
They should have found a better spot further away or heal the hooked survivor first since they will still have DS up unless they do the healing from what it seems. So yeah they should play better.
Guess some people just need DS to be a free pass on their bad plays 🤔
No. They did. What exactly should they have done? Go to the end of the map to heal? While the killer gets a “free” down because they want to abuse a mechanic that allows them to do so? You obviously don’t understand bad plays vs abuse of a mechanic.
“Guess some people just need Ds...”
Yeah. Falls right in line with: Guess some killers just need to camp and tunnel.
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Not until Camping and Tunneling get looked at.
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@MrPenguin said:
Move to a safe spot before healing.
An unhook shouldn't be free because of DS, thats not what the perk is for and not what it should be used for.
Everything mentioned is on the survivor for making a risky/bad play, the killer shouldn't be punished for trying to stop a bad play on the survivor end.
so what do you expect survivors to do when then find a “safe” spot, killer brings Nurses and lo n behold, the survivor was “touched” so the killer tunnels the unhooked survivor.
Guess they should have played better and safer huh? 🤔
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@MrPenguin said:
Move to a safe spot before healing.
An unhook shouldn't be free because of DS, thats not what the perk is for and not what it should be used for.
Everything mentioned is on the survivor for making a risky/bad play, the killer shouldn't be punished for trying to stop a bad play on the survivor end.
so what do you expect survivors to do when they find a “safe” spot, killer brings Nurses and lo n behold, the survivor was “touched” so the killer tunnels the unhooked survivor, who only 10 seconds after being unhooked has lost their DS effect.
Guess they should have played better and safer huh? 🤔
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@MrPenguin said:
Move to a safe spot before healing.
An unhook shouldn't be free because of DS, thats not what the perk is for and not what it should be used for.
Everything mentioned is on the survivor for making a risky/bad play, the killer shouldn't be punished for trying to stop a bad play on the survivor end.
so what do you expect survivors to do when they find a “safe” spot, killer brings Nurses and lo n behold, the survivor was “touched” so the killer tunnels the unhooked survivor.
Guess they should have played better and safer huh? 🤔
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@StickyCheese said:
Just suck it up. if you are healing in an unsafe situation, YOU took the risk to do so and now face the consequence. Use detection perks to get a read on where the killer is if you have that much trouble.
Suck it up? Kind of how killers di—- nvm.
You either don’t play killer or don’t understand how easy tracking a freshly unhooked survivor is.
Im not here to play devil’s advocate but this is truly baffling telling someone to suck it up because they were forced to bring a perk... meanwhile you don’t need a perk to abuse Tunneling and Camping because it is something available to you 24/7.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1917011#Comment_1917011
Tunneling and Camping aren't mechanics built into the game. They are just tactics players choose to use.
You can't really get rid of them without doing something as stupid as preventing the killer from downing the last survivor unhooked.
Technically a mechanic is a rule/procedure that guides how the game will play.
Allowing a killer to flat out camp just because they can get a kill that way then becomes a mechanic.
Nobody is asking to get rid of them but to either tone down their abusiveness and/or give them a downside via gameplay.
It’s funny how DS can be abused but some people don’t think camping can.
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Finally... now they can move on to nerfing the Tunneling and Camping mechanic.
Because it isn’t fair that those two mechanics don’t change, meanwhile a perk needs to be brought to completely counter them.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1915447#Comment_1915447
I didn't know you could play as a sacrificial hook
LMAO
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1915804#Comment_1915804
This sounds similar to what I do, and why I run/stack Coulrophobia with Mangled. It usually results in the healer taking a hit for nothing because they couldn’t get the slug back on their feet in time.
Yep, I don’t run Coulrophobia but I do run Sloppy. XD
I usually use this trick on people who love to immerse, because sometimes immersive survivors can break the pace of your pressure. I’ve had matches where I hooked 2 people and then because I was trying to play nice, went to look for the immersed survivor and lost all pressure I had at the hooks. my own fault of course.
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@Chchchcheryl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1915085#Comment_1915085
A lot of people say slugging is great for creating pressure but if I only slug i don't get many hooks, is there a way to keep balance between the two or should i just go with my gut in the situation?!
Of course you have to analyze your own situation. Like, if you haven’t gotten any hooks from that survivor I would probably hook, instead of slug.
The way it sometimes works out for me is that I slug the one person, go pressure gens, give the survivors a reason to leave the gens, go back to the slugged person and by that point you can intercept anyone going for that heal.
Much of this depends on other variables too like which killer you’re playing, and what perks you’re using. You wouldn’t want to bother much if you’re a mile away from the slug and you aren’t playing as someone who can travel across the map in a short amount of time.
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This idea that Decisive Strike makes you invincible, when in fact it does not. You can still go down if hit.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1914843#Comment_1914843
How can you be scared of something you can't even see?
It lurks. o.o
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Wait, a thread asking for advice for a change, instead of “this game sucks I’m quitting waaah”...? I’m in!
I would say one thing I do is normally get an idea for which gen they might be working on and then right before I go preassure , down and slug the next player if you don’t think you have time to hook. This hopefully forces one of them off the gen to go pick them up.
Definitely don’t overcommitt to a chase if you know they have an excellent tile and no gens around. This is their perfect scenario and might cost you too many gens.