Jim_Tonic
Jim_Tonic
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780123#Comment_3780123
You mean the anti face camp mechanic that is completely circumvented by proxy camping at 11m? So I guess this anti survivor mechanic would be disabled by crouching for 1 second.
Or the anti 3 gen mechanic that also came with free any gen tap? So which "compensation" mechanic should survivors get that always applies in every game, even if stalling doesn't occur?
I have no idea what anti tunneling is, since every single anti tunnel effect is a perk, which is exactly their point.
You dont know what anti tunnel is? Have you never noticed that short immunity timer giving you the time you need to get away? We only had borrowed time for this before the mechanic. And people didnt say "oh just use BT" no. We have a mechanic now.
Not 3-genning yourself was a task that was SKILLFULL for the survivor team to do, spreading gens and not doing them on only 1 side of the map is anyway by far the better way to pressure the killer, there was no perk for this but also this technique was not really rocket science either. Still we have a mechanic for it.
Hook grabs have been removed aswell btw, when it was the easyest thing to just let go right at the hit and then unhook while the killer does their cleaning weapon animation. Hook trades used to be what they are called, TRADES. Now i can convieniently know i will get my buddy from hook and will have enough time to get away still, while as a killer you need them injured in order to profit off of UNSAFE rescues.
And you know what everyone used to do when people were hard or proxy camping without the anti facecamp mechanic? → Gens. Rush them, the killer is not chasing anyone. If they just sit around on the same spot not doing anything but camping their oh so precious 1k then its litteraly so easy to just rush gens and get out the door. -
@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773108#Comment_3773108
So you admit there IS counterplay in your perk you just don’t wanna use them. Thats on you.
I need people to realize that you’re not going to go into every single match being able to counter every situation. That’s why perk choice is a roll of the dice. You’re not meant to be able to counter every situation in every match. That doesn’t mean there is no counter. You just didn’t bring the thing to help you counter it.
by that logic, why do we have anti 3-gen, anti facecamp and anti tunneling mechanics?
BT, OTR, DS, BnP and toolboxes, various genrush perks and even a perk that stops the sacrifice timer (forgot the name, its from rebecca).. Tools are there, but people didnt want to use it and demanded solutions by the devs, then these solutions get introduced. But when something on the killer side is unfair, we have to adapt and dont get any mechanic to hold our hands. -
@squbax said:
I love this thread not because of the topic but because of how funny it is that when a killer perk or a killer has no counterplay aka old eruption or old slinger people scream that it need to be nerfed, which is absolutelly fair, and telling people to equip perks to counter it or make it weaker is bad game design.
But when the no counterplay strategy pertains to the survivor side there is absolutelly no issue just equip x perk, hey dont hook, you are just bad.
Imo when something has no counterplay it should be looked at and changed for both sides but this is just hilarious.
this 100%
Its so old news to me, there is a huge bias around. -
I agree that background player is still too strong but why always suddendly call for a removal? this will never happen, imagine if bhvr would take away things that people unlocked, let alone payed money for. (yes some people buy characters for their perks only)
Couldve asked for a nerf for background player instead, so people would have an easyer time agreeing with you. And flashbang is litteraly fine, its only so strong because of background player right now, which wouldnt be the case if background player was propperly nerfed when they did it. -
I mean there are 2 ways of thought:
First, if the killer manages to get half a team dead by the time only 2 or even 3 generators are left, they would win that match anyway. So an introduction of periodic aura reading after x amount of minutes by 2 survivor left (and with no generator progress, this one is important. You dont want to punish people for doing gens).
But then what reason would the remaining survivors have to even try? then they start throwing or afk-ing which is alredy rampant enough right now so we dont want to make this even worse.
Second suggestion would be to make hatch appear earlyer again (which i personally would find horrible and litteraly every other killer player aswell. This would again punish people for doing their objective just the other side this time.)
So why not have a middle ground? The killer gains aura read but the survivors get some sort of Speed boost (nothing too crazy please) or even faster exhaustion reduction for their perks. Just something to asist slightly in chase so the other person can do gens, making the game more interesting once more since chases are supposed to be the most fun part according to what i have heard people say.
Obviously this is just broad and would need more in depth thinking. But emphazising the fun part of the game more is never a bad idea i think. -
@Ayodam said:
You could run Whispers, Spies, or any other number of perks that detect immersed survivors. The response to survivors who face uncomfortable playstyle is always to “run X perk.” Apply that to your killer games as well. 🤷🏽♀️
Anti facecamp
Anti 3-gen
Anti tunneling
3 features that have been introduced into the game despite certain perks alredy existing. I think its totally reasonable when killers demand something too for a situation that is also very annoying to them. -
ok thats double as much as i have. Maybe around 4k hours i'll also see people that actually want to play the game again
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@SonicOffline said:
There used to be absolutely no SBM/MMR. People were quitting over getting stomped over and over and over. Besides, personally I like the current MMR system. I get put with people who generally actually try to play.
how many hours do you have? in my lobbys everyone gives up over the slightest inconvieniences.
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@RenoPro said:
The result of sbmm and mmr is getting the same boring matches over and over and never improve bc you encounter only pp of your level.
I propose to remove it completely and add a system where player with less than n° of hour will only match themself until they reach the cap of h° and will get trow with everybody else.
that is alredy the case how it is right now lol
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
I think adding a extra 5 would be a good idea, and running under the assumption that this would mean going in release order and with Licensed killers the next 5 would be Myers, Hag, Doc, Bubba, and Freddy
The main question is what buffs would 2v8 give to them, Hag is pretty obvious (Faster trap placement, Haste after placing a trap, basically just copy-pasting Trapper's buffs) but how would BHVR bump up Myers to be functional in 2v8?
exclude licensed killers, myers was before Huntress and he didnt make it to 2v8. So next ones would be Hag, Doctor, clown, Legion and plague if they go by release order.
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How about all of them?
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778520#Comment_3778520
Yeah, i know that ;)
Tho i found this funny either way :xmore power to you honestly ;) i get angry at those people which is just a waste of energy really.
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@Nick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778605#Comment_3778605
You don't get banned based on your username. Every Steam profile has an unique Steam64 ID which will always be attached to in-game reports. Don't know how you got to this conclusion or who told you this?
Reporting someone to get someone banned WILL ALWAYS(!) require an in-game report. BHVR developers will never blindly ban someone based on their username. Steam doesn't work with an unique username system so the way you think it works will never be possible. You can't just go to the Support Page and say "Hey, Jim_Tonic is cheating, here is a screenshot with his name".
You will always need an in-game report, which uses Steam64 ID's, not usernames.
tell that to the streamer who got wrongfully banned because the cheater used their User name overlayed over their own while cheating and a BHVR employee saw the stream and got the wrong person banned, took way too mutch effort to appeal the bann. And if it was not a streamer that got affected, imagine how a random person would not even have a chance.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778605#Comment_3778605
Those of us on Xbox cannot even use their Anonymous Mode 😕
That is so ######### 😤
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@Huge_Bush said:
It just depends on who you’re asking. It’s not a one answer fits all kinda deal. Heck, they can even be your enemy.
"
Heck, they can even be your enemy.
"
→ sad but true -
@GeneralV said:
I did it a while ago, but I would say my tier list is still accurate:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T759CYP60C16/image.png
Good were the days when most killers I dislike did not exist.
NICE fellow freddy enjoyer :D I used to main freddy once.
Mine below, added vecna and Dracula to "indifferent" as i've not played against them enough.
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When i was fairly new i used them only for curiosity to see them and learn which offering is for which map.
However i too use them as advantage especcially on doctor i like to use gideon meatplant map. But i am indifferent to them, i dont think there is a chance to get rid of them at all but you all could try and get them to rework these offerings so they bann the map instead of 100% chance-ing them. -
I see almost always people go back to safe the last one on hook when it was a good match. And its soloQ. Yes, survivors are very mutch a team.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778669#Comment_3778669
It depends on the specific glyph. It can be hard to keep track of where they were seen during chase, several requirement a survivor to be close to spawn them, and at least two for survivors have drawbacks (pink exposes you, blue makes you oblivious and I think blind?). Technically yes you should try to activate them when safe to do so but glyphs are kind of unpredictable
Ive done a ton of glyph challenges during the 4 years i play this game. You'll find one in the next round or in the next 2 rounds if you didnt have a chance in the first one. And pink only exposes you if you dont act fast enough, you have plenty of time to approach it before that happens. Blue glyph oblivious or blindness has a set duration which is rather short, its not that big of a deal. The orange glyph for killer has debuffs that stay there until you have completet it while also requiring you to do alot of hook stages while being debuffed.
Im not saying its unfair, but since you want to go the "they are hard" route in this argument.. They are not that hard.
Yellow glyph requires just training with skillchecks, used to avoid these when i was new, can do em with no problem now. White one should get a description update as its very confusing for new players but that one can easyly be done any time in the trial when the killer is occupied. Green and red ones are litteraly not neccessary to stress over as you have more than one spot to get them. And you hear them aswell.
So yeah. Why should i not take the opportunity for the hit if you had more than enough chances to complete the glyph outside of chase? unlike they implement a glyph that specificly only shows up when you are being chased, i find that "rule" rather ridicilous sorry.
And even if so, the killer still doesnt get a trade off from letting you have your glyph, there is no benefit in that, only self handicapping. -
@Assassin97 said:
If it is a true 'bully squad' chances,are they aren't doing gens in the first place lol U think bully squads are fun to vs imo
Then you never had one abusing old rpd library with boon exponential and unbreakable.
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They can play that way if they wish so,.. its not against the rules.
And its not against the rules for you to punish them accordingly either ;) -
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778599#Comment_3778599
A hook state isn’t equivalent to a glyph, although it’s pretty unlikely the chase would last much longer anyway. And it takes maybe 2 seconds for the survivor to finish the glyph. That’s hardly any time at all to waste…
you could also do the glyph when i dont see it btw. So you dont put yourself in danger when doing a glyph and the killer is around close to you.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778599#Comment_3778599
A hook state isn’t equivalent to a glyph, although it’s pretty unlikely the chase would last much longer anyway. And it takes maybe 2 seconds for the survivor to finish the glyph. That’s hardly any time at all to waste…
Not swinging when you could swing can pretty much make a HUGE diffrence, dont be disniginious. But its just like i thought, you want something but im not getting anything in return.
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Let alone de-ranking even. This was even worse than only loosing pips, however both was utterly unneccessary i dont understand how anyone would want that back.
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@zLoqzx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778645#Comment_3778645
i agree! if u went to silver IV from iridesent 1 lets say *at the end of the month dosent matter if u go silver from iridesent u still get the reward from the max rank u got even if u derank thats what i think. and it isnt about bloodpoints i just want the ranking system to mean something a bit more
it is totally about bloodpoints. if you want ranking up to be harder and want get back to de-pipping then ALOT of people are gonna be mad. If you want to make it harder for me to reach my iri 1 so i can get 1 mio bloodpoints for both classes then we are going to have an issiue.
The developers alredy made their decision anyway and the overwhelming majority of the playerbase likes it that way. You are not gonna disrupt people from getting their bloodpoints, what ever reason you have to try to do so. Again, its not even affecting you at all. -
@zLoqzx said:
i played dbd at a time where getting high rank took skill thats my point
Sorry for that? or not? idk man this seems like a no issiue. But i dont see why it should be "hard" to get bloodpoint rewards in the first place. The players are comitting alot of time to the game if they reach iri 1, that should be rewarded.
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@zLoqzx said:
because its to easy to pip up to iri 1 and time when purple,red,green,andmore rank colours use to take still to get red ranks (NOW its too ez to get to red ranks
why do you care if it is easy or not? its just bloodpoint rewards, you dont even see other peoples ranks. Litteraly noone is going to agree with you, you dont have a good argument why they should change it.
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Also you didnt lose iri one even before, losing iri 1 was never a thing once youve reached it.
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@zLoqzx said:
IF THEY REACH IRI 1 AND LOSE THE IRI 1 THEY STILL GET IRI 1 BLOOD POINTS thats my suggestion THEY SHOULD ADD DEPIPPING again
No they shouldnt
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Scratch marks dont even appear when you are propperly stealthing.
Now you cant rely on the environment anymore while just running around mindlessly. Its a good change, forces people to be actually careful about scratch marks and they are not even increased in duration afaik..
So yeah, i cant wrap my head around how you play stealthy but STILL leave scratch marks? Sounds more like you are trying to do some in-between playstlye which obviously is going to be less effective as if you committed fully to stealth or fully to chase. -
@Nick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771526#Comment_3771526
People with cheats just go anon mode or are off-platform. The 'control' you think you have being able to dodge cheaters is a placebo
Oh since people can just make their acc look like someone elses acc and then record themselves cheating so BHVR does bann the wrong player, i'd recommend ANYONE to go and play Anon mode. I dont play with my acc name displayed no more i always use anon mode so some cheater does not use my name, i dont think thats gonna be a good idea to let them do that. And since BHVR does make it ultra hard to appeal such banns its better to not take the risk.
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@not_Queef said:
Offering items to the killer = free escape
this is weird. the killer cant even use the items why would they trade this with an escape?
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@HolyDarky said:
Join the crew: If you play survivor and your teammates play the same character, you must play this character too. Same goes for when your teammates play a Resident Evil character, you have to play as a RE character as well.
nah
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@Ayodam said:
if you see a survivor attempting to get a glyph mid chase, let them get it then resume the chase
Do i get a free hook then aswell for waiting and wasting my own precious time?
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Rule number 1# Throw the rulebooks away!
There is only 2 things needed for a sucsessfull DBD experience.
1) Make sure you enjoy the game. Play by your measurment of fun, not by others.
2) Mind your own buisness. If there is something you really really dislike as long as its not against the rules, go and complain about it to the devs, not harassing the player in egc, it will just lead to nonesense arguments otherwise. -
@Rumplestiltskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778513#Comment_3778513
And I would suggest, with only good intentions, that despising BHVR and letting it run rampant in your emotions doesn't hurt them, but it does negatively impact YOU. I know it is cliche but your fun will go up and your stress will go down when you simply stop worrying about the things you have no power over, and focus on the things you do. The hackers thing is a pet peeve of mine too, as I think that with a game as successful as this they could, if they so desired, go for a more effective (if more expensive) form of anti-cheat. That, however, is an example of something I have no power over, so I just ignore it. When the hackers become too big an issue for me I stop playing. That I have power over.
just ignoring it and not complaining about these things is the reason why they get away with these sorta things.
The real deal would be voting with the wallet, but as i said i still do enjoy this game and i intend on buying trevor belmont aswell once he hits live. Because there is no alternative. But shutting up and just not letting them hear what they do wrong is never an option, with no company in gaming or even in general. if they choose to not listen to feedback thats on them. But at least i can say to myself i tried it. -
Why would you want it harder for people to earn bloodpoints??
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778031#Comment_3778031
Would you rather have survivors give up and throwing themselves to the killer whenever they have a rough start? Because that's probably what would happen if you remove any hope of somehow escaping, even by hatch and buff the killer when it's already winning.
that is alredy happening alot whenever i dare to get the fist down before 2 gens are completed. Which is 90% of my games. People just expect to be handheld all the time and want to win every 1v1 when in reality its not meant for a survivor to "win" a 1v1 most of the time. You are supposed to waste the killers time long enough to pressure them.
But so many people give up, adding pressure to their teammates rather to the killer and bloating killers MMR aswell. -
@deckyr said:
lately, the absolute worst games of dbd have been games that end up in a 2v1 situation.
after two survivors are dead, and you have two survivors alive with a killer. all three people in this situation want to win, so what is the best option for each?
for the survivors, it's to wait for your teammate to die. for the killer, it's to keep patrolling the generators to make sure they don't get done.
the objective of the survivor team has changed, and now the killer has no information and almost no relevance to the actual game at hand any more. the killer has nothing to do and no information to act upon unless they either have a perk to help them or one of the survivors gives up.
and then, when one of the survivors actually is downed… well, if you kill that survivor, the hatch will spawn and the last one might get out. so for as long as there is one survivor on the floor, the remaining survivor and the killer are playing the same game: hide and seek. except there's someone on the floor, having been taken hostage.
a lot of developer time was spent dealing with things like camping and tunnelling. but when will the developers start considering the problem of the 2v1 situation? when the priorities of the survivors shift, and the game becomes extremely boring?
what would you do to address this, if you were a developer?
i think i would make it so that, in the 2v1 situation, the survivors start to build up idle crows any time they aren't on a generator, and putting one of the survivors into the dying state immediately triggers the mori animation on that survivor.
i would then adjust all achievements and archives that require 4 kills to only require 3 kills.
no more hide and seek, please. no more slugging for the 4k, please. i want to play the video game and i cannot stand it when i am taken hostage by survivors that don't want to show themselves, or by killers that don't want to give up their 4k.
I agree with litteraly everything you are proposing 👍️ its so nice when people have suggestions that benefit both sides and not only one side
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Honestly what does it matter whether they get endurance from perks or basekit? just tunnel them if they want to waste their protection lol.
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Playing friendly isnt always matched with being thankful. And anyway most people will search for anything than their own skill to blame. So ofc they accuse you of cheating.
Thats old news in this here community. -
@Tyler3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778324#Comment_3778324
Imagine if you actually managed to pull that off..
I actually did it once. Killer was confused af why i got away and i told them i actually found a key, both of us celebrated the sheer luck ive had, killer wasnt even mad lol.
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@Jarky said:
They haven't made it harder, no - if anything they've made it easier. You can't lose pips anymore.
How well you play a match is still effective in you earning Iridescent Emblems and therefore pipping up faster - that said, certain killers struggle more with certain emblems and being TOO effective can make certain emblems a lower quality.
For example, the Devout emblem can only be Iridescent Quality if you've hooked survivors 9 times, and hooked each individual survivor once. If you camp a survivor, or they all give up on hook, you're not getting it to iridescent level.
Also to be clear, your bloodpoints have nothing to do with whether you pip or don't. It's purely based on the emblem system, which you can read about here: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Emblems
i was not talking about blood points, i was talking about emblem points.
And yeah im trying iridiscent gatekeeper for a challenge right now and i ended the game at 5 gens left. But it ended under 9 minutes so i didnt get iri. Its kinda dull. No wonder it takes so long to pip either im too fast or not fast enough, finding the perfect middle ground is hard. -
@Rumplestiltskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778151#Comment_3778151
Well, yeah. If they did a big change like that they would have to replace/retire some challenges. I've watched Hatch go through a long evolution, and it changing again is possible. I doubt they would ever remove it from the game entirely though. All in all I, I don't speculate or advocate much on what I want to see (or see removed) from the game because it feels like wasted energy. The DEV do what they do based on their business model and many other things we will never know or likely understand. I doubt they get any warm feelings after all these years when they get praise, nor do I think they even notice heckling. There is so much of both, that one would simply become immune over time.
All in all I think they do a good job. They tell us roughly the target numbers they are looking for and are close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades to those target goals. They tweak things for the most part, rather than making big sweeping changes because this isn't a game to them; it is a business and who wants to accidentally kill the goose that lays golden eggs? Incremental change, when needed, is safer than getting hit by the anvil of "unintended consequences" of massive overhauls. If we are to judge Dead by Daylight, there are only two things that seem relevant:
- Are you still playing the game, angry and complaining or not? If you are they are doing more right than wrong.
- How do their numbers look as far as their Player Base? Are they consistent despite normal ups and downs? If so they are ok.
The individual and the mob are the only two measurements that really have meaning. You and I are here talking about the game. Even the people here venting about the game are still playing the game. Clearly the game is more right than wrong. ;)
I dont fully agree on the two questions. Yes you are right in a rough sense but in my case for example i love this game, i do enjoy it while i play it and i have fun playing both sides…
But i absolutely despise BHVR as a company, i could rant about all the horrible decisions they have done that are so totally bad for their players, there was a LOT of shitstorms over the past years, LOADS of things they handled extremely bad. The reason why this game is still alive is that there are no real competitors. And thats the sad truth, BHVR acts exactly like a company that has a monopole. Only the recent trickster visual bug and the cheaters faking ID's and getting wrong people banned debakles are good examples for recent mishandlings, mishandlings on BHVRs end. Remember first they tried to downplay it and act as if it only affected a minor part of the playerbase before they even fixed it, when things like these should be top priority.
And i could go with dozen other examples that dont affect the game in itself but the surroundings of it. Im not even mad at balance because its an asymmetrical game its never going to be completely fair. But i really dont like how they dont take their players serious. Thats the impression ive got from my 3 years im dealing with BHVR now..
So i am still playing a game that i enjoy in my free time, while having to hold my nose tight closely to not smell the bad taste that comes from other things involved with it. -
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777806#Comment_3777806
Not everyone has friend to play dbd.
Even then you can for the first time ever have a teammate with a random even.
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@Lyawi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778019#Comment_3778019
ok interesting - my connection is stable too. only DBD acting up :/
Yeah its their servers.
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@Rumplestiltskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778123#Comment_3778123
This is factually correct, even if humor was your primary goal. A Killer who wants to try and earn the big BP bonus for no one getting out, slugs because stopping to put someone on the hook gives the other Survivor a great chance at finding the hatch. They can use that time to move off, hide and begin the search. The hatch is open and it become a coin toss at best for the Killer. Thus, it makes sense tactically to leave the 2nd to last on the ground and hunt down the other Survivor first.
If the Hatch were removed (and many used to suggest this loudly) they would have to have the End Game Collapse start as soon as there was only one Survivor left in the match (rather than closing the hatch). This would mean who has the advantage, Killer or Survivor would depend entirely on how closely the Gates are situated from one another and whether or not there are Perks selected which help in the end game.
Well i wouldnt be sad if hatch was gone, then they would also replace these obnoxious survivor hatch challenges
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@Rumplestiltskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778123#Comment_3778123
This is factually correct, even if humor was your primary goal. A Killer who wants to try and earn the big BP bonus for no one getting out, slugs because stopping to put someone on the hook gives the other Survivor a great chance at finding the hatch. They can use that time to move off, hide and begin the search. The hatch is open and it become a coin toss at best for the Killer. Thus, it makes sense tactically to leave the 2nd to last on the ground and hunt down the other Survivor first.
If the Hatch were removed (and many used to suggest this loudly) they would have to have the End Game Collapse start as soon as there was only one Survivor left in the match (rather than closing the hatch). This would mean who has the advantage, Killer or Survivor would depend entirely on how closely the Gates are situated from one another and whether or not there are Perks selected which help in the end game.
I dont think slugging for 4k will be gone completely if hatch were to be removed, as anti face camp also didnt remove facecamping completely. (yes, some killers actually make the bar fill up on purpose so they can tunnel off hook. Its equivalent to shoot yourself in the foot by giving other survivors time to repair gens, but i guess for some people it just works.) But it has been reduced greatly, face camping is ultra rare now. I think it would be the same case without hatch, even though it would also need offerings and certain challenges to be reworked.
And GOOD RIDDANCE i would say in that case to the tome challenges. Hatch challanges on survivor are some of the most, if not THE most obnoxious challanges to get done in 2024's DBD. On killer its a coin toss just like the 4k. But at least you can kinda force it by using an offering and camping the place during endgame, 1 survivor always waits till last second at the gate, so you have enough time to close it. -
@Nazzzak said:
Yes it's the same on my end. It's great they took on board the feedback, it really is much better this way
There is still changes to be made though, idk why they did not go with all out reverting it in one go.
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OR remove hatch. That would also make slugging for 4k unneccessary. You would be never slugged for the 4k again if hatch wasnt there. sounds good right?