Jim_Tonic

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782109#Comment_3782109
My mistake. You were calling me out for saying there's no issue with boons being infinite, so I assumed that meant you had an issue with boons being infinite yourself.
And I disagree. It's obviously pretty neutral for hexes at worst. More spots to potentially spawn in, no real change to the likelihood of it being a bad spot, and the ability to more freely mix in non-standard hexes like Plaything and Haunted Grounds together with a standard hex like Ruin or Devour. If you add in that perks like Thrill, Retribution, Undying, and potentially (depending on hypothetical changes) all get improved with two or three extra totems on the trial, it does look like an improvement to hexes overall.
Hexes also aren't the only thing the killer cares about here. More time for survivors interacting with side objectives is good for them too, it slows down the game in a healthy way.

Even if its neutral to hexes (which it is not) its still MASSIVE buffs to survivors kit, when more totems were added.

Also dont forget the whole killer related objects that will also have more reliable spawns when you have less spots to place them because now totems take up more spots. And the hexes are just far too weak for them being finite too. That doesnt change when there are more spots either, they dont get stronger just because now there is more places added.

I used to dislike boons being infinite when CoH was still meta. Now i dont mind it. And again you bring up the argument that it wastes survivors time going for boons, which i alredy countered. It actively makes it more convinient for them if anything, now they have MORE acsessibillity to totem spots and can cover the map mutch more easyly instead of having to go to a certain spot. How does that safe any time for the killer?

in Should There Be More Totems? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

Again a suggestion that solely benefits survivors, what do killers get in return? The hatch offerings are a 50/50 you cant count them as a solution against basekit unbreakable, devs should just not implement any 4k challenges anymore imo and rework the ones that exist.. Then i would be fine with basekit UB.

in There is a decent way to implement basekit Unbreakable Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782079#Comment_3782079
Then you shouldn't want one-time-use boons, that's my point. They'd need to be significantly stronger to justify only being usable a handful of times in the best of circumstances.
I'm not ignoring anything, I know hexes can spawn in bad spots. I do play killer, I know how annoying hexes can be. I also know hexes don't always spawn right out in the open and that there are a fair number of pretty good hex spots on most maps. Like I said to you earlier - that you are actually ignoring, for the record - more totems means more chances of good hex spots as well, not just the bad ones.
Hexes, in general, would need more help than just this. This wouldn't even really help hexes as a class, they'd be at a net neutral here, it'd just help combinations of hexes. It wouldn't hurt hexes, though.

it would definitly hurt the hexes and benefit survivors perks way more.

Also i didnt say i want them to become a one-time use. I say i dont want more totem spots for boons.

in Should There Be More Totems? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782066#Comment_3782066
That's not a bias, that's a difference in understanding.
To me, the fact that boons are designed to be localised buffs in a small (ish) area inherently makes them completely different to hexes. Because, y'know, they are. Hexes are global effects that push survivors into a one-time timesink to find and get rid of them. Boons are localised effects that survivors want to continually spend time keeping up. They have different intents with different associated gameplay, they're just not that similar. The only similarity they even have is that they revolve around totems, but even the way they use totems is different.
One-time boons would be a dramatically different kind of perk. They'd all need to be completely overhauled from the ground up to accommodate such a fundamental difference in intent behind the mechanic. I just don't see the value in something like that, I don't think it'd be better for everyone for boons to be dramatically stronger and more annoying but also much less reliable on the survivor side.

No, i really dont want the boons to come back ," be stronger and more annoying" we had that with CoH and it was horrible.

And in theory you are right but in practise its just so simple, boons can be easyly re-lightened because its 4 survivors and only 1 has to really do it (which is usually the person bringing the perk) killer has to manage between all 4 and then on top of this also their boon if they want to get rid of the effects, as they dont even know what these are.

And hexes? well you keep ignoring when people tell you they spawn right in the survivors faces most of the time, making it whopping 0 seconds of value. And you want even more totems, even more chances for hexes to spawn where survivors spawn. Even easyer accsess to boon spots.

in Should There Be More Totems? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782058#Comment_3782058
I mean, I don't see how anything you said even connects to what I just said, let alone disproves it.
CoH was too strong, undoubtedly. That doesn't mean boons and hexes aren't completely different mechanics…?

They are not that diffrent? hexes are weaker than boons but thats it. And you want to essentially buff boons with your suggestion, while simillarly hurting hexes because now there is more spots where they could be obviously right in the survivors face at the start of the trial.

But you alredy showed you have a bias as you said you see no issiue with infinite boons while hexes are one-time use.

in Should There Be More Totems? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782020#Comment_3782020
It's true that is that not always have to please both sides, The problem is the scale of the basekit mechanic you are trying to get against the one you are comparing (anti facecamp)
What changed since the anti facecamp was released?
Barely anything, the killers that facecamped before now are camping 7-8mts away, so the results are the same.
What would change if the aura reading/crows/hatch-removed mechanic is released in the 2survs/+1gen scenario?
Every killer gets a 4k.

you dont realize that in these stalling games most killers get a 4k anyway too. It just takes mutch longer. And i havent said a single thing about hatch.

Also, acting as if Anti-facecamp doesnt do nothing is just straight out disinginious. If the facecamp meter doesnt fill itself up its on the survivors fault. And guess what, if you dont use basekit BT to your advantage to get away, its the survivors fault too. Killers shouldnt be punished for the survivors fault and i think its overdue killers get something basekit aswell for how mutch survivor has gotten in the recent years.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782030#Comment_3782030
Completely different mechanics with completely different intentions shouldn't be expected to function the same way, I see no issue with boons being infinite but hexes being one time use.
There are ways of helping hexes out that don't involve comparisons to boons, too.

and that is where you are simply wrong. I remember how strong CoH was and how everyone said shattered hope shouldve been basekit instead of wasting a perk slot for the off chance someone brings a boon.

Boons are far superior to hexes even today. And as i said there are various non- boon perks that favor survivors, yet killers have no perks that wor with dull totems.

in Should There Be More Totems? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782027#Comment_3782027
You'd also hypothetically have more chances for your hexes to spawn away from survivors, though. Good hex spots do exist, and increasing how many spawn points are filled increases the chances any one of them will be a good hex spot.
Plus, like I said, if survivors are breaking dull totems more, they're spending time off generators more. Maybe this'll change with future perks, but the only "break a dull totem" perk that would actually offset that time investment is Overzealous, and that perk is already infinite if you pair it with a boon.
With a little bit of tweaking, the killer could still have totem-defence perks that help them in these scenarios. Undying would show them interacting with those dull totems, Thrill would need some number tweaks but could easily still slow them down, Retribution would still render them Oblivious, Dominance is presumably going to keep its basic effect once it hits live, and even Pentimento could still exist in some form. It would benefit killers too, not just survivors. Both sides would have more meaningful options.

idk whenever i ran hex perks they spawned litteraly 5 feet from where survivors spawned in the match. So i stopped using them.

in Should There Be More Totems? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

This would benefit survivors more and hurt killers more. You dont want more possibillitys for your hexes to be in the face of the survivors, also as the perks you mentioned that benefit survivors by just breaking dull totems, now they have even more possibillitys.

I dont think this is a good idea.

in Should There Be More Totems? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

I had the very same issiue!

So, my match went as follows, i did time it even to 9 minutes. I ran pop goes the weasel, corrupt intervention, deadlock and pain resonance. There has not a SINGLE gen been done while i even hat 2 stacks of pain left when the trial ended, my timer went off half way through the match, so 9 minutes passed with not 1 single gen done.. i made a lot of regression events by either kicking or pain resonance (short of the 2 stacks that i didnt need). I patroled the gens that were worked on the most and had even good sight to both gens. I slugged enough, had enough injurys, i was in total control of the match because i had so mutch pressure.

Lastly i had to find the two remaining survivors because they went hiding, but i was in blood fury just when 1 healed the other from the dying state, i catch up and manage to down and hook both remaining survivors, even getting a last regression event from pain res..

so… WHY THE HELL did i only get bronze on gatekeeper????? according to the wiki its supposed to be 35 points the least. Yet i only got the points for closed exit gates, which are 10 points, which gives bronze… Can someone explain to me because im not getting it.

Another thing broken in this game, which will probably take ages for them to fix it again. At least i know not to bother with these gatekeeping challenges anymore.

in FIX GATEKEEPER EMBLEM!!! Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781314#Comment_3781314
That cost is obviously the time blessing.
The goal of these buffs is to make more reliable what you get in return of wasting time blessing instead of niche scenarios.

thats not then mutch of a time management thing when the reward is so big it kidna nullifies the cost.

in Small boon buffs Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781490#Comment_3781490
We do want a solution, just not one that favors either side heavily. If a solution favors killer, then you end up with problems where killer gets a guaranteed 4k while survivors have to get a 4E in order to win.
You want to talk about hook grabs? Okay let's talk about hook grabs. Let's talk about the stupid hook standoffs that would happen because the killer refused to just take a trade. Let's talk about how DS, which was rightfully nerfed, used to allow you to get grabbed, stab the killer, get the rescue, and then have the rescuee body block you with BT.
As I've already pointed out, the solution to this stalling problem needs to be one that doesn't favor either side. It's a give and take situation. Both sides get something, but they both have to give up something in return. Killers want an anti-stall mechanic, well survivors want to feel like it's still possible to escape if there's two of them left and more than one gen still required to activate the exit gates. Nobody's going to agree to just be a sacrificial lamb.
The entire reason survivors stall when there's only two of them left and more than one gen remaining is that neither survivor wants to just give up, but doing gens feels a little pointless given the likelihood of being found since it takes 90 seconds to do a gen solo.

what did killers get in return for removed hook grabs? what did killers get in return for the anti facecamp?

no, it doesnt always have to please both sides. But sure keep these double standards, when killers get something there needs to also be something for survivors but when survivors get these mechanics it doesnt matter if killers get compensated.

"We dont want a solution" is exactly the core issiue i have with all of you.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 16, 2024

Thats only one reason why i dont give mutch into statistics in DBD.

in Camping and tunneling are inflating kill rates, and not for the reason you think Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781577#Comment_3781577
BHVR might be trying to make the finisher mori work, so they can sell more of the really expensive killer cosmetics like the Trapper bear, that have their own mori.
This means killers might get nerfed again, just so the finisher moris can get added to the game. If BHVR is willing to literally make a PTB with unlimited survivor unbreakables, then I can't imagine what other nerfs they are willing to make, to force finisher moris in the game.
I can tell you right now that any killer nerf at all isn't worth finisher moris. Getting nerfed, just so I can watch cutscenes more often, feels like an awful idea. Meanwhile, why is this having a higher priority than the giant problem we have right now, when there are 2 survivors left, and they both excessively hide and refuse to make real efforts to repair generators? Are we really going to get another nerf that will boost survivor escape rates, but zero solutions for survivors that are literally breaking the game rules and refusing to repair generators?

and yeah, once it is a killer issiue, its not that important. This is the double standards im talking about all the time, its nothing new. And we will probably only get silence about this again, because we are right

in We need more courage from the Developers Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781577#Comment_3781577
BHVR might be trying to make the finisher mori work, so they can sell more of the really expensive killer cosmetics like the Trapper bear, that have their own mori.
This means killers might get nerfed again, just so the finisher moris can get added to the game. If BHVR is willing to literally make a PTB with unlimited survivor unbreakables, then I can't imagine what other nerfs they are willing to make, to force finisher moris in the game.
I can tell you right now that any killer nerf at all isn't worth finisher moris. Getting nerfed, just so I can watch cutscenes more often, feels like an awful idea. Meanwhile, why is this having a higher priority than the giant problem we have right now, when there are 2 survivors left, and they both excessively hide and refuse to make real efforts to repair generators? Are we really going to get another nerf that will boost survivor escape rates, but zero solutions for survivors that are literally breaking the game rules and refusing to repair generators?

its not even going to be more often, as the 4k requirment is pretty damn high

in We need more courage from the Developers Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780005#Comment_3780005
I understand what you're suggesting, and to some extent we agree, but if I could add to this: Trying out bold new things isn't free. Any change that we spend time programming, adding animation, art, SFX or any other work to that goes to the PTB and gets scrapped is time that is effectively wasted. That time could have gone into other improvement that would have actually gone live.
The reality is there's only so much time to work on changes between each update. We pack as much as we can into each one and there's always more we want to do.
Lately we've taken to doing smaller incremental changes to a larger number of Perks and Killers most of the time rather than large ones to only one or two. There's a couple reasons why we do this:
People who use those Killers/Perks get more frequent changes without having to wait for a large scale rework which may be pushed back repeatedly until there's enough room for it.
It allows us to see how a set of balance changes affects things before committing to further changes and risking over buffing or over nerfing something. (For context, the PTB does not use ranked matchmaking and people take time to adjust, so we can only learn so much.)
Smaller bundles of changes tend to be safer and have less risk of being reverted, meaning more changes actually make it to the live game.
To the last point in the original post, having fewer things that need to change between PTB and live is a good thing. It means that they're in a safe enough spot that we can monitor how they play out in the live game. I want to stress the fact that nothing that goes live is final, everything is subject to change if needed. On the flipside, pushing a ton of changes to the PTB and having to backtrack most of them before they go live is a bad thing for development because it takes time and resources to a) make those changes in the first place, and b) rework or revert those changes before the live release. Both take development time away from other positive changes we could be making. It's also worth noting that the window between PTB to live is fairly small due to certification, so we don't have the luxury of making massive changes between the two.
I absolutely get the sentiment, and there are times where we test larger changes without intending to push them live. But our goal is to get as close to the target as possible with the first try, then fine tune from there.

Not that i want to act as if i know better. i know NOTHING about game development.

But it just sounds like, regarding the PTB, that the windows are just too short. Why not have a bigger window between live and PTB then? I can only guess its because there is an alredy very tight release schedule for all the new content we get basicly all 3 months, which is good for the game no doubt, keeps everything fresh. But also makes it harder to be more flexible when the community decides some things should be way diffrent than they are introduced in the ptb. I can see that one kinda combats the other and its very difficult to balance between the two.

But then i also dont really understand why certain things are pushed through regardless, like the finisher mori concept. Last time it was introduced it got rejected pretty harshly, so if time is so scarce, i personally wouldnt have invested more of it in something the community does not want. Same goes for the UI changes that noone was asking for. Obviously i dont know what happened behind the scenes, im 100% if you knew it wasnt going to be recieved well your company wouldnt have done it.

However, i like this. Some insight behind the scenes, reasoning for why things are how they are. This makes it so people dont have to come to their own conclusions why some things just dont work, it would be surely appreciated if we get to see more posts like this one. And for things like the UI changes, maybe just have more surveys. Again, i dont know about game development. But im working in customer department for my company and ive been way more sucsessfull actually talking to the customers and have surveys, many people are happy to share their opinions and it also makes them feel much more valued if they get to participate even for a tiny bit. Obvously our company is not run by our customers but they are the ones that know best what they want.

And we are much MUCH smaller, maybe it doesnt work on a bigger scale like this. But its worth a thought no?

in We need more courage from the Developers Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781454#Comment_3781454
that is your mindset because you dismiss an objectively good idea that encourages people to play more fair by "that's not an enough incentive to stop tunnelling" truly an insightful criticism, yeah, people who want to tunnel won't ever abandon tunnelling unless you convince them not tunnelling is easier and more efficient strategy to win games. that's why unless we have a solution for that, we're not allowed to ask for or have nice things for people who already play more chill.
😒

Oh boy… Im not saying you are not allowed to ask for something. I am part of this community for 4 years now and i KNOW that you cant get rid of the tunneling meta so easyly.

I didnt say you have a bad idea, if it is about me? I care about tome challenges. If i need tunneling to get a 4k i will do that. But i will definitly also throw my games away only to get those shards that are speeding around the map. So dont make any assumptions about my mindset ever. My highest target is always the tome challenges, i would be quite fine with your suggestion, as i dont always tunnel anyway, only when its neccessary for my tome.
But people that DO want to have 4k every round, those people will not stop tunneling because of an animation they have probably alredy seen dozen of times. This is what i believe whether you like it or not, no need to get so defensive over it.

If you are just about people that alredy are casual, fine. But that was not clear from your post so dont blame me for misinterpretation through text.

in Will finisher mori have any kind of solution for slugging for 4k( 2v1) & 1v1 being a coin toss? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781323#Comment_3781323
The 5% you mentioned are not a good trade if you look at pop, pain res, eruption, call of brine, overcharge and even ruin. All of these are shallow versions of their former strength, which is the reason why killers resort to tunneling and camping in the first place because pressuring gens is a loosing game.
Yeah, dont bring this into that. We were talking about the 3-Gen-thingy, nothing more. Bringing in other things does not work.
Otherwise, a few years ago they increased Gens from 60 to 80 seconds. I guess this is even more impactful.
And well, saying that Killers resort to tunneling and camping because of nerfed Perks is also a blatant lie. Even during the strongest Regression-Meta we have seen that tunneling and camping are omnipresent. This just shows that all encouragement does not work to remove those playstyles.
And i repeat, facecamp bubba is GONE. It was worth it.
All this work just for that? Not worth it at all. Let alone that there is 0 difference between a proxycamping Bubba and a facecamping Bubba. Once the Survivor reached the Hook Bubba is there and will down the Unhooker immediatly and go after the unhooked.

It does not work to remove these playstyles because its not "encouragement" if you nerf the things people need to keep up, its punishment. Encouragement would probably actually help to lower tunneling. And yes sure it was around still. But it has spiked and became more and more, as other playstyles have been gutted aswell. Wether they be fun or not is a diffrent story.

And no, you dont get to cherry pick what kind of arguments i can bring, and its not even about 3-gen. Its about a mechanic for an annoying scenario that killers have to face. And i brought the survivor mechanics as example for the clear bias that is going on with the developers but also people in the community, like you.

Also its very disinginous to claim facecamping doesnt matter while proxy camping is still possible, these are 2 very diffrent things and by no means should a hook be just a free safe at all times. This is why i know im speaking to a survivor main, even something as simple as a mechanic against stalling games is too mutch to ask.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

Sorry but chaos shuffle is so boring as a modifier. Why have a modifier be something that could aswell just be a toggle option aswell.

Where you can just choose random perk set by enabling a checkmark box. And you can toggle it on and off as you like. There are tome challenges that do this, where your perk layout is toggled to random and untoggled to your existing build, according to if you have the challenge selected or not.

Yes the games were more fun because not anyone brought meta all the time. I can see the appeal. But it doesnt bring anything new, just makes the existing 1v4 more chill, which, seriously. There could be better ways to make the game less sweaty. If they wanted to do so.

in Sry 2v8 players, but chaos shuffle is the best modifier Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781431#Comment_3781431
The only one being disingenuous here is you, buddy. I do play killer. I almost never play against sabo squads. I'd find any claim that suggests they're even remotely common to be dubious at best.
You claimed that sabo plays are guaranteed now, because of the changes to sabo toolboxes, yet never bothered to mention that it's only really guaranteed with sabo squads.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781421#Comment_3781421
Except that the mechanics survivors get to combat annoying scenarios are not guaranteeing them a win. You remarked about double standards, yet you're asking for exactly that. That's rather hypocritical, don't you think?

I dont say the solution has to "guarantee a win" thats where you are mistaken and its not my fault you make assumptions. But the fact that we dont even want a solution obviously is where the double standards hit.

It doesnt matter "win" or not. What matters is, that its a very frustrating experience to killer when it happens, the stalling is annoying and happens more than people want to admit. But we are hard against it in this community. Why? because its something that COULD benefit killers even slightly.

Also shall i mention hook grabs removed again? Talk about not guaranteed something, as i said safes used to be a risky play.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@crogers271 said:
The last time they tried a major change it was the basekit unbreakable/mori. It didn't go well.

well it was a very bad change they wanted to do.

And on the PTB, thats more marketing than anything else. Hardly do feedback make it to the live version. And if it does its just halfway.

in We need more courage from the Developers Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781432#Comment_3781432
There is nothing you can do to incentivize the hardcore tunnelers from not tunneling, unless that incentive means winning the game harder than tunneling does.
But for everyone else, any little thing helps.

you say this as if BHVR themselves wouldnt encourage people to do so. By the very game design, tunneling is the most effective strategy. And it doesnt help that the killers get pressured into 4king either. Blame the designer, not the player.

in Will finisher mori have any kind of solution for slugging for 4k( 2v1) & 1v1 being a coin toss? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781432#Comment_3781432
i suggest you abandon "all or nothing" mindset when it comes to issues like that.

thats not my mindset, but BHVR has trained their playerbase to give everything and to sweat. A simple animation wont simply do in order for people to play diffrently.

in Will finisher mori have any kind of solution for slugging for 4k( 2v1) & 1v1 being a coin toss? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781255#Comment_3781255
Finally, a way to reward spreading hooks. Make it so that basekit Moris cannot be used until, let's say 4 hooks have been made. Maybe 5 if you want to be strict.

i can alredy tell you, that wouldnt be enough of an incentive.

in Will finisher mori have any kind of solution for slugging for 4k( 2v1) & 1v1 being a coin toss? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780681#Comment_3780681
Complaining about hook sabo's when you usually have four hooks all within 8 metres of each other is actually hilarious.
You talk about how making unsafe hook rescues used to be a bad play that could be punished, yet it still is a bad play that can be punished. If you think immediately downing the unhooked survivor, who has no control over when they're unhooked, is punishing the unhooker then you're dead wrong. The unhooker doesn't care. If they did, they wouldn't unsafe unhook in the first place. This is actually why basekit BT became necessary.
Why do killers need a mechanic in place that's going to guarantee them a 4k if they get down to two survivors remaining?

Imagine never playing killer. Because i know you dont by the statement of yours. With background player, sabo boxes etc its not even possible to avoid the wiggle free, most of the time when squads play that way they run boil over too..

Dont be disinginious.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

The issiue with these statistics is, once again, do they not tell the full story. There is WAY too mutch RNG involved in order to actually measure a match closely, also dont forget the give up culture that is plagueing the game since a while now.

Every player in High MMR will guarantee trapper doesnt do #########.

in A reddit user did an experiment. Let's discuss the results. Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780681#Comment_3780681
Complaining about hook sabo's when you usually have four hooks all within 8 metres of each other is actually hilarious.
You talk about how making unsafe hook rescues used to be a bad play that could be punished, yet it still is a bad play that can be punished. If you think immediately downing the unhooked survivor, who has no control over when they're unhooked, is punishing the unhooker then you're dead wrong. The unhooker doesn't care. If they did, they wouldn't unsafe unhook in the first place. This is actually why basekit BT became necessary.
Why do killers need a mechanic in place that's going to guarantee them a 4k if they get down to two survivors remaining?

same reason why survivors need their mechanics. To combat annoying scenarios.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781312#Comment_3781312
Anti facecamp was NOT a waste of time. No more facecamp bubba which is a succsess in my book. And what do you mean by proxy camping??? do you expect the killer to go at the very other edge of the map to let survivors unhook in peace? If devs actively start going against every single strategy killers have, you will not have many killers left anymore. Its hard enough to keep up with gen speeds. And if you dare to say skill issiue, i can also say skill issiue the moment you even land on the hook. So anyone who gets proxy camped in the first place should just loop better.
Oh my.
Of course AFC was a waste of time. Since Facecamping barely existed it all. All the feature did was that you now have a bar which does not fill up while getting camped. And mind you, this is not only the Killer being the minimum distance to not trigger the feature away, it is also things like camping someone who is in the Basement or on other Hooks which are hard to reach for a Survivor who wants to go for the Unhook.
And well, nobody is saying that the Killer has to go to the edge of the map. To quote you, you are just "inventing fantasy scenarios". But if Killers dont even try to get into other chases because proxycamping is just so good, this is just a problem.
And well, saying that someone should loop better, in a time where Loops are so unsafe that you get easily bloodlusted… Not really a valuable tip. Except if you can tell me what I should do against a Killer who refuses to kick a pallet because bloodlusting is just free (if we look at free = getting the down).
How you can even say anti 3-gen was HELPING killers is a super wild claim and has litteraly no logical basis.
It is actually very simple, but you dont want to understand it. To prevent 3-Gens, they implemented a feature which almost never comes into play. I have never seen a Gen being blocked in my games, neither as Killer nor as Survivor. I dont say it never happens, but it barely happens.
However, the changes that Survivors cannot tap Gens anymore to stop them from Regressing is far more relevant for games. That they also increased the damage done by a Kick to 5% is also something that comes up in every game.
So basically Killers got a Nerf which barely ever affects them, but got also a Buff which is more relevant and a Buff which comes up in every game where a Killer kicks a Gen.

And i repeat, facecamp bubba is GONE. It was worth it.

My loop argument was just preparation in order to combat any "skill issiue" nonesense post that will come up when i say how it is and that gens get done way too fast. Usually 2 gens are done before the first hook. The 5% you mentioned are not a good trade if you look at pop, pain res, eruption, call of brine, overcharge and even ruin. All of these are shallow versions of their former strength, which is the reason why killers resort to tunneling and camping in the first place because pressuring gens is a loosing game.

Instead of punishing certain playstyles, the playstyles we want to emphasize should be REWARDED. only that way we can get away from tunneling etc. Also survivors should have a diffrent objective than only gens, as most people perfer longer matches than a match where one side just stomps the other in 8 minutes.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

I like the idea from a killers PoV as facing an SWF is the worst experience ever, cant even get up to people before they pre run.

But i dont think people should ever have restrictions for playing with friends, no game does that and for good reason. The SWF issiue is unsolvable, BHVR shouldve listened to the people that said its a bad idea when they first introduced it, now it cant be removed not even circumcised.

in Would it benefit the game for perks in SWF to be unique? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780683#Comment_3780683
How is that worse ? You can't full heal with my suggestion.

Yeah but you dont even have to waste time to heal yourself to 25% either. You just pass by and heal passively, which hurts time management in the match. You do realize the actions survivors do, especcially healing are supposed to have a cost right? that cost is time. Thats why against some killers healing is crucial (oni for example) while you shouldnt heal against others (legion or plague) because against killers like legion or plague you will waste way too mutch time cleansing/healing.

in Small boon buffs Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780691#Comment_3780691
I heard that this version of finisher mori supposedly would not make mori perks / offerings obsolete and will just be a basekit cypress mori equivalent.
so my main concern is that there would be more encouragement to slug for 4k which I dont find fun on either side

They want to change the existing mori offerings into BP multiplicators, is my last update on this.. If im wrong, gladly i would like to see a statement where they paddled back from that horrible BP multiplicator idea.

in Will finisher mori have any kind of solution for slugging for 4k( 2v1) & 1v1 being a coin toss? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780123#Comment_3780123
Anti-facecamp was a waste of time. For one thing face camping was pretty rare, and more people complained about proxy camping than face camping because proxy camping is the more efficient play. If they devs really wanted to “hurt” face camping, they should have considerably raised repair speeds when the killer was within X meters of a hooked survivor because guess what? If a killer is face camping a hooked survivor and they unhook themselves, what will the killer do next? If you guessed down them 8 seconds later you’d be right. And this brings me to your final point: Anti-tunneling as in the baseline BT? Doesn’t work. Killers tunnel through the 8 seconds. Easily.
Anti-3 gen actually works better for killers due to the regression event change they made on PTB. I’ve never gotten to maximum allowable regression events (#########? Who does?) and have never seen any other killer—including those holding 3-gens—do so either. What I have seen are the basekit buffs to damage-based gen regression this system has brought used quite efficiently. Ironically that’s no where in your comment.

Anti facecamp was NOT a waste of time. No more facecamp bubba which is a succsess in my book. And what do you mean by proxy camping??? do you expect the killer to go at the very other edge of the map to let survivors unhook in peace? If devs actively start going against every single strategy killers have, you will not have many killers left anymore. Its hard enough to keep up with gen speeds. And if you dare to say skill issiue, i can also say skill issiue the moment you even land on the hook. So anyone who gets proxy camped in the first place should just loop better.

How you can even say anti 3-gen was HELPING killers is a super wild claim and has litteraly no logical basis. Im not discussing if you are just inventing fantasy scenarios.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780149#Comment_3780149
Killers have also received basekit changes; far more than survivors, in fact. Are you new here?

which ones?

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780123#Comment_3780123
I totally agree that there should be some sort of mechanic that stops the whole "survivors hiding and not doing gens" scenario but I always hate when people use anti-tunnel as an argument for basically anything.
People always seem to forget that before basekit BT, killers could fairly reliably re-down survivors before they even regained control of their character. It's an absolute no brainer that never should have been a thing and bringing it up as an argument feels off base at best

Im not saying im against these basekit changes, im saying i dont like that killers get treated diffrently or killer issiues are taken less seriously.

And about the tunneling you mentioned. Before basekit BT was litteraly the reason why BT was meta back then. And it was arguebly stronger as a perk than the basekit version is now, i guess so they tried to not completely kill BT that way, but then you have OTR which if it wasnt bugged would be the better choice anyway

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

Bots for huntress, wraith, nurse and billy? what? when? where? how? XD they are also in customs???

Oh i think it would lighten que times a little as less players have to combat each other for killer spots. most people want to play huntress and nurse, less people want to play wraith and even less want to play billy who cannot even insta down anymore in 2v8. which is the whole reason why you would play billy in the first place. So if all the people have to be spread evenly amongst 5 characters not allowing doubles, i think its logical conclusion it would shorten que times. it would not solve the horrible que times, but it would still shorten them a bit.

If the mode becomes permanent though, i hope they do alot more work with it. Sure it will become more interesting once majority of killers are added and you can test all kinds of combos, the classes for survivors however are a bit… bland? idk after youve played like 10 rounds of survivor you have alredy seen it all. Also i dont see why anybody would take anything else than the chaser class btw. Support and gen jockey are good aswell. But by far chaser rules just because of the sprint burst that comes back quite reliably. And scout is litteraly useless, for new players it might be good info but even they then would need to know how to utilize this info..

I dont understand the hate against bots at all, they often work better than majority of soloQ survivors, they dont cry in the endgame chat and they always (or almost always) go for safes. It would drop que times massively if bots could fill up lobbys, im not saying 7 out of 8 spots per lobby. But maybe 2. unless full SWF groups are in play, then obviously the bots are not needed.

in Future 2v8 questions Comment by Jim_Tonic August 15, 2024

I agree with you SO mutch. And many people in this community aswell. Despite they are absolutely stripping killers from their mori offerings with this idea, turning them into BP multiplicators makes them instantly useless, as cakes and even the category bp offerings are mutch more reliable.

They've invested work into the animations and then make it so they are displayed more rarely? I really dont understand the thought process here like, who asked for the mori change? noone, according to my poll at least majority of people either doesnt care or doesnt want it changed. Very VERY view people actually want this. And when asked they dont have a good argument why they want it.

My suggestion would be to just throw the whole finisher mori idea to trash and never come back with it again. People alredy made clear they dont want it back when UB basekit was suggested, idk how the devs could come to the conclusion people want it now. Its insane.

The only thing i would MAYBE see as reasonable is just making yellow mori basekit. If they want some sort of finisher animation, the yellow mori has it alredy. And all it does is only work on the last survivor, without any interference to how a match usually plays. But even this could encourage more slugging for the 4k so i'd rather have them do not anything at all whith this. Bury the idea and never come back with it, thats what i would want the devs to do.

Unfortunately though, they can be very demanding when they have certain ideas, even though the community repeatedly tells them its a bad idea.

in Will finisher mori have any kind of solution for slugging for 4k( 2v1) & 1v1 being a coin toss? Comment by Jim_Tonic August 14, 2024

Circle of Healing was a big issiue when you could heal yourself with it. And your suggestion makes it even worse than it was before, not a fan.

in Small boon buffs Comment by Jim_Tonic August 14, 2024

@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780228#Comment_3780228
See, that's where you are wrong. A very valid way to escape is to wait for everyone to die so you can get hatch. I'm not saying eternal hide & seek is fine. I'm just saying there is no simple solution. If you give killers info in this situation that is pretty much immediate death for both remaining survivors.

For both? no, not at all as the one that doesnt get chased gets to wait for hatch OR do the gens, either way its not fair killers have no mechanic in place for these situations. But ofc in this here community we dont care once its a killer problem, however when its a survivor problem then we can make basekit mechanics to make it easyer for them, despite the fact that killers too could argue how they are more likely in a loosing position with these mechanics as they were without them.

Making UNSAFE hook rescues used to be punished and a bad play, now you can easyly rescue by your own and dont need 2 people for that. And sabo plays are guaranteed now, you can sabo in between the killers little swipe animation while they are holding a survivor and still get away. Sabo plays used to be risky, now its just easy af.

But god forbid killers have something like that, in a situation where they have won alredy anyway. When 2 survs are left and more than 1 gen is still needed completion.

The double standards never cease to shock me…

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 14, 2024

@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780224#Comment_3780224
It happens when killers proxy camp hook as they all do now that the anti camp mechanic is in place. Also your suggestion does nothing against high mobility and especially range killers. Killers are faster than the survivor by design. Youre acting like what im saying is rare when I bet if you ask actual survivor players they will tell you how often this happens. No matter what you cannot reasonably deny that basekit BT does not combat tunneling because it doesn’t. I’d suggest you try playing more survivor to see how often killers simply chase down people off hook and wait out their BT. People on this forum are still championing tunneling one person out at 5 gens as their wining strategy. If basket BT was the savior you’re acting like it is, that wouldn’t be a viable strategy, yet it is.
Also the argument against your mechanic is that your only options for doing that are to demand that survivors basically go out and die if they’re in a 2v1. Let’s say that even one survivor just says “okay fine I’ll just go out and die so my teammate can have a chance at hatch” that doesn’t matter for killers who love to slug for the 4K which is very common. It’s not reasonable to expect 2 survivors left to go out and sit on gens that are easily patrolled by a killer, because they have no other options.

oh but its reasonable to expect killers to not proxy camp? and this is the double standard in this community that i hate so mutch.

in We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors Comment by Jim_Tonic August 14, 2024

@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780200#Comment_3780200
I'm not handicapping myself.
I don't like to kill people with five gens left, that's all.

if that suits your style then go for it. Just not a solution for me.