Huge_Bush
Huge_Bush
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548492#Comment_3548492
So and what if he just hits the guy getting unhooked instead of a full hp one? If the unhooking person does not have bt he just went down... That's what was a problem If you want to acknowledge it or not.
He can’t hit the guy that’s unhooked if the healthy one stands between them and takes the hit. The healthy one can position themselves properly since the killer loses collision after a hit. Simple.
Even then, if that was too difficult for most people to do, they had the option to bring in BT, DS and UB to make the game easier for themselves. They weren’t required to play the game or win, but they sure did make things easier for survivors.
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Wraithcar and Myers. Wraith chases people off of gens until Myers gets unlimited tier 3. Then Wraith just body blocks survivors from one side and Myers comes and either insta-down or moris the survivors from the other side.
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@Firellius said:
"At that point you could remove basement alltogether since it's like dungeon"
Yes, actually, that would be a pretty good idea, since all it does nowadays is bolster tunnelling and camping.
Sure, remove basement, just make sure to be fair and remove shack and to not replace it with anything. Just let the devs go through every map and take it out as a whole and to place a little bush in its place.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548409#Comment_3548409
Ok so apparently you simply cannot understand that situation that used to appear and that there is just no taking hits when the killer is right next to the person being unhook with no other survivor in between, so this whole thing is pointless.
Also do you see that, if the requirement to bring bt is so needed that not bringing it is a mistake this is a problematic thing? Because it limits perk variety?
I have no words for this anymore, you simply don't understand anything I say and are completely delusional about the outcome of the killer standing right next to the hooked survivor.... I ll give you one last try dude... Maybe this helps..
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FDYS68EMNX2R/image.png
If the killer stands right there, so nobody can get inbetween him and the hooked survivor, and no one has bt. How exactly do you prevent the killer to just hit the unhooked survivor again and just down him again? Explain this dude? Because there is just no way, there was nothing for you to do about it, this is why bt was a necessity and why basekit endurance is great since the unhooked player actually gets to play regardless of the perks his team brought. And if you now still don't understand then I can't help you.
The second the killer hits the first survivor they lose collision and the next healthy survivor can unhook and body block to prevent the killer from hitting someone else. Again, it’s not rocket science. It may be harder than pressing m1 on a gen, but it’s not impossible or out of reach if people used their brains.
Nothing was problematic about having to bring in BT if you wanted to have an easier time rescuing someone. It wasn’t required if you had good teammates. Stop being obtuse about it. It what you said was true and it was impossible to escape a camping killer (sans Bubbi) the survivor population, especially soloqueue, would have plummeted a long time ago. I mean, if getting rescued was impossible people wouldn’t want to play anymore!
It’s funny how you want to complain about Perk Diversity when it’s expected of killers to have to come prepared with perks to cover for every situation. Killer complains about gen speed? “Apply pressure, bring in slowdown perks”. Survivor too hard to catch because they run to strong loops (like the house in GoJ)? ”Play a stronger killer, bring in anti-loop perks or simply abandon chase, just make sure you don’t tunnel or camp because we’ll complain about that too”.
Yea, BT as base is definitely great for survivors. It removes pressure from the killer and makes the game easier for survivors giving them yet another chance in a game that already gives them a plethora of second chances.
I don’t need you to help me understand anything. I understand it just fine. It’s okay to make things easy and convenient for bad survivors, but it’s not okay to do so for bad killers. That’s literally all it is.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548244#Comment_3548244
How is it a survivor error when he hits the person that gets just unhooked without BT? If nobody has BT in the match???? That was my whole point and you still don't seem to understand it, you cannot make it anywhere since the killer would just hit the person that got just unhooked right away and just down the again.
You still seem to think I was talking about the unhooker getting downed again but that is not it at all, so maybe just read what I write for once.
It’s the error on the survivor that does the rescue. If no body brought it BT, it’s the error on everyone who didn’t bring it in. Even then, they didn’t need to have BT to pull off a successful rescue. Again, it only took two people without BT to make a rescue against a camping killer- unless they had an instant down.
It’s the same with killer, is it not? Gens go too fast? What’s the forums response to that complaint? Oh it’s “you’re just bad, get better at the game, abandon chase, bring in slowdown perks”. The same should be applied to survivors.
Again, it was not impossible nor overly difficult to rescue a camped survivor. If you’ve been playing since before BT became basekit you would have seen it happen plenty of times.
I’m reading what you wrote just fine, you’re just being obtuse.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548054#Comment_3548054
You're still completely ignoring the part where someone gets just immediatly re-downed if the unhooking person does not have bt, the killer can just stand right besides the hook, let the unhook happen and down them again, how do you play skilled enough for this not to happen? I've asked this like 3 times now and it is getting absurd, because either you're ignoring because you cannot find a good answer for it or I don't know.
Yeah sure, that's why the wanted to nerf engravings, because they were way too good...
Dude if you seriously think it get solved just by using an item or a perk every single time because without it you're basically lost then we are once again at the issue why basekit endurance after unhook was necessary. No it is not that easy to find all totems, not only did it give the killer massive amounts of slowdown it was even possible that just the one last totem needed was somewhere at the edges of the map where you would never go, that's just not true it is not about being lazy and only wanting to slam gens.
I would disagree, unless those good survivors are comp level, everything below can still be beaten if you put enough time in Nurse, Blight or Spirit. And above that you can probably still win if you're just good enough, the game is not really sided to killer or survivor, but just to the side that plays better. And with matchmaking in the state it is it does not really matter anyway, since you will get a random mix of good bad and ugly anyway.
Someone getting downed after the unhook would be a survivor error. Killer hits one, another unhooks, the two injured run and the unhooker takes the next hit after the killers wipe animation completes. If that was too hard for most, they could have selected to equip BT. They also had the option to equip DS (even after the nerf it’s still useful to waste time) to waste even more time. Dead hard was and still is an option to protect an unhooker.
And please, don’t tell me that was too hard. I have over 6000 hours in this game, the majority of it in Solo Queue, and I’ve seen it done plenty of times. The times when we didn’t get it done was because survivors were too scared to approach the hook.
The only time the above wouldn’t be possible was against Bubbi or someone with an Instant Down. Rather than giving basekit BT to survivors the individual killers ability to completely lock down a hook should have been nerfed, not give a buff to survivors as a whole.
Picking perks to cover for your individual weakness is part of the game. You can argue that you want to pick fun builds, and that’s fine, but you can’t expect to succeed in matches if you don’t pick the most optimal build, especially if the opponent doesn’t want to play casually.
Again, it was a much more massive time sink to bless a totem than it was to cleanse one. Survivors had no problem with it because it gave them a brokenly powerful ability to consistently reset themselves. Before it got gutted, CoH was in every match and multiple survivors brought it in and multiple survivors had no problem blessing and reblessing totems.
With the amount of times they spent blessing totems, they could have cleansed totems twice over. It really is about wanting to only loop the killer and do gens. Even now that NoED glows like a disco ball, people complain about it because they don’t want to be bothered to play carefully in endgame and spend time looking for it.
While matchmaking is garbage, there’s not much they can do. They don’t have enough players at all skill levels to properly match them against equal skill. The killers you mention can be beaten by good survivors. Not comp level, just good survivors who know the basics of looping, are able to look behind while they loop the kill and are not afraid to touch gens when the killer is occupied. The general consensus is that the game is killer sided in low ranking amongst the noobs while it becomes survivor sided the higher you go. At the very top, it always has and always will be survivor sided.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548008#Comment_3548008
Well more like 10 months, but yes, you're right. I already played back then and in my memory it felt like it was closer together. Both were ridiculous and it is good they got changed.
And what did you do when you don't have bt? Because that was my exact point it is impossible to prevent an immediate redown without bt. So what you are saying there does not adress it. Sure if you ran bt you could do fine but that brought the other problems I mentioned before. So maybe focus on the points I'm making instead of changing them.
Like I said before when they only take into account stats nurse and blight are fine as for the maps. Those videos you mentioned are mostly a matchmaking problem. Well unless you are of course on the most ridiculous once of those maps then it is rather simple even at that level yes. But that's also the reason why the go for the more balanced maps in tournements and such, because otherwise it would be ridiculous.
In case you don't know that, old undying didn't take over stacks in the version that respawned more than once, so that didn't work so my point stays, they would just ignore it because it is more time losing to search the whole map for all totems. It was terrible and it is good it is gone. The problem was basically indefinite ruin, it just granted so much slowdown it was unbearable. Dude survivors bless the same totem over and over again, I have yet to see a match where they actually use more than 1 or 2 totems to bless, it is sometimes just really hard to find all totems.
Nurse already got nerfed though? They removed her strongest addons and made her blinks not basic attacks anymore, since then it is even argued that with addons Blight is stronger than Nurse since her addons don't add much to her total power anymore, something which never happened before.
Oh great so you can read their minds now... I would still just think they are slow or something, because purposefully keeping your game in a worse state than needed even though it might attract more players if you fixed it is a questionable choice at best.
Yes, both were ridiculous and needed changing, but the best thing they could have done was push the changes to both at the same time, not one before the other. Instead, to please the majority of the player base, they pushed out the killer nerf while stringing killers along for nearly a year, making it seem like keys were getting totally reworked when, in fact, it just had simple changes.
Perks are there to help cover for things you may not excel at or to make the game more fun. BT was there to make escaping a tunneling killer easier, but it wasn’t needed. All you needed was two people, one person to take the hit while the other to do the unhook. It’s what good, experienced survivors did. BT as base-kit now makes the game easier for bad survivors, more difficult for bad killers, and frees up a perk slot for good survivors. This is my issue with the games balance. It’s okay to make things easier for bad survivors (and letting them stay bad and not improve their individual skills and teamwork ability) but the community seems to think it’s not okay to do the same with bad killers and that it’s okay to let them struggle and just “git gud” .
While the devs do use the stats into consideration when it comes to balance, they also stated they take other things into consideration. The proof is in the fact that they gut perks that are used often to change up the meta and not because they’re too strong. I do agree that the stats have more of an impact on their decision making.
Yea, I forgot Undying didn’t transfer stacks, but that really only affected a few perks. To fix that and make it more threatening, they could have just made the stacks transfer. It didn’t need a nerf to what it is now. But they nerfed it due to the outcry that it was “too hard” when it wasn’t. Finding lit totems wasn’t hard. All you had to do was listen for the fires crackle or look for the glow. Gain enough experience and you’ll memorize most of the totem spawns. Still struggle with totems? There are multiple perks to help and maps exists. I have over 200 maps I easily hoarded just by using Plunderers. Countering totems were never difficult, survivors just didn’t want to bother and wanted to have tunnel vision with their gens.
I don’t need to read minds to know that a businesses objective is to make money and that they will do everything they can to maximize the amount they make. In Behaviours case, it’s catering to Survivors more than to killers. They don’t have to worry about keeping the game in a bad state. They get four chances a year to change things with the chapter releases.
Finally, the devs don’t get to call all the shots, their bosses (shareholders) do, and they’re usually shouting for maximizing profits irregardless of quality and they’re always looking at the short term.
Nothing has really changed in the dynamics of power with the game since it’s released. Good survivors have always(always will) had the upper hand. Things have just gotten less frustrating, less broken and easier to do.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547932#Comment_3547932
Keys and moris got basically nerfed in the same process or at least rather close by so I don't get that point.
The hook grab game was really stupid and I'm so glad it is done, the whole grab thing is buggy af and had the issue that on your screen you already stopped the unhook but you still get grabbed, it was just overall really annoying on both sides even, as killer I hated it and I am glad it is gone.
It needed to be basekit for sure, otherwise even with 2 survivors coming you could still just get farmed off of hook and that removed gameplay for that one person entirely, there is nothing this one survivor could have done to not get downed immediatly, also even with 2 survivors it is basically impossible to block the killer off completely from just downing the just unhooked survivor again. There is nothing they could do, there is nothing to improve without bt, it was required, otherwise just hitting the unhooked survivor again was a free down every single time, without anything to do against it. (Unless for some weird reason you get autoaimed)
The maps are an issue but the killrats on this map are apparently not that far off and since bhvr does basically everything stats it is just not affected enough to be on their screen.
Undying was stupid though, in comp they didn't even go for the totems because it took too much time compared to just powering through, it is not about finding 1 or 2 totems, it is about finding 4 or 5, I think current Undying is fine, just like current CoH is way better than the original one. Undying especially for Devour Playstyle.
As for FOV slider yes they take ages for basic stuff that the game should have had on release, this is nothing new or anything, it is what it is the devs are slow af. But I don't really see a pattern in one thing taking longer than another one? NOED has been in the state it was for years until it got changed, Blights ridiculously overpowered addons are still the same and so on and so forth, I don't think they are onesided and it is just your perception.
No, it took the devs a year to nerf keys. Survivors were able to have multiple escapes and not finish their objective.
Hook grabs were fine except for the bugginess. Rather than invest in better coding and servers, they did the easier thing and removed it, to the enjoyment of survivors.
No, it didn’t need to be basekit. Saying there was nothing they could do is false. Plenty of times people were able to save against a camping killer unless it was Bubba. You only needed one or two people in a team to have BT for effective rescues against campers. Good survivors also knew how to body block hits or get flashlight saves. And for all the whining about DS being nerfed, it was and still is effective at wasting the killers time unless it’s close to endgame and the resources have been used up. Survivors did just fine before it became built in.
Maps will always be an issue. The majority will always be survivor sided. This is intentional. Even when they shrink them like they did with the Artists map and the upcoming Borgo, not much gets changed with the amount of loops and how strong they are. Good survivors thrive on looping M1 killers for multiple gens. Video after video on YouTube and TikTok are a testament to this. It’s what attracts new players and their friends to the game. you can say you disagree, but the truth is, making maps fair is not rocket science. Loops can be spread out and made more mindgame-able so each side can have an equal chance at out playing the other, but instead we have walls that survivors can see through or objects like cars that they see over and under, forcing the killer to chase them around it three times until a pallet drop and off to the next strong loop. If things were more fair, both Nurse and Blight could have been brought down in terms of power a long time ago, but fairness isn’t something Behaviour is looking for.
As for Undying, no, it wasn’t stupid. Pair it with Devour Hope and survivors, even comp teams, would have to prioritize the totem. But people didn’t like not being able to rush their objective and just whined about it until it got nerfed. CoH is proof that cleansing 5 totems was no big deal for survivors if they knew that it would turn the map in their favor. They didn’t have a problem wasting the time to bless totems over and over. It was only a problem if the killer benefited from it.
The Devs slowness is intentional. It’s not that they’re lazy, it’s that they don’t want to change anything unless it affects the player population. It’s always a carrot on a stick with them, when the carrot fails to attract players after a certain time, they replace it with a shiner one.
Again, I do believe they care for both sides, I don’t believe that they don’t care about killers, but in the grand scheme of things, survivors are more important for them as a business and they have to prioritize them above killers, which is why they drag their feet when it comes to killer improvements.
It’s also why they don’t touch Blight or nerf Nurse. Those two killers are their scapegoats. So when people call them out one the imbalance of player satisfaction, they can say, but Nurse and Blight are free and only the strongest of survivors can compete with them, knowing full well that they’re too difficult to master for most of the killer playerbase, thus, not being a problem since they’re not common enough except in high ranks.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547881#Comment_3547881
"If the devs cared for the “player experience”, they should show the same courtesy to killers that they have shown to survivors. It just seems that there is a double standard that it’s okay to cater to bad survivors and improve their experience by dumbing down the game but it’s not okay to do so for bad killers."
You have patches on killer specific things that did exactly that, for example on plague on the minimum amount of time you have to hold the power to use it. They literally did the same thing for killers.
Also killer is only one person so there is not really a need to compensate for the inability of communication inside the game between the team members.
The worst case if only one person comes for the unhook is not a 1 for 1 but, but literally just a re-down on the before hooked survivor, because without bt that was basically farming off of the hook in front of the killers face.
It is really hard to work together as survivors if matchmaking does not work properly and puts them together with a wide variety of skill and the inability to properly measure how good a player is, coordination without communication is also really hard, that is the main issue about why some changes were needed.
As for the killers complains, gens did already get prolonged by 10 seconds some time ago, they used to be 80 seconds, that's quite a lot. As killer you don't have a team you can complain about, you can still get unlucky with matchmaking and get people that are better than you and make it rough for you, but since people with way more hours have way less of a problem with that it is basically a skill issue, however coordination without communication stays hard no matter how good you are. Even really experienced players can mess it up if they think someone else will take the unhook while they took the hit and such.
Nothing you quoted states that I believe that the devs don’t care. They obviously do care, just not as much as they do for the Survivor experience. Just look at how long it took them to nerf keys compared to nerfing Moris. Look at how long DH and Circle of Healing were pretty much left alone for a long time until it started affecting the killer population and survivors had to wait longer for matches. I don’t blame them, Survivors are the cash cow of Dbd, it makes sense to cater to the majority. I just wish they cared more about the killer experience.
It is not really hard to work together as a team when it comes to survivors. The difficult lies in matchmaking and survivor entitlement. Now that we have the new HUD that literally shows everything going on, it’s easier than ever. The problems arise when survivors feel entitled to not have to contribute to their teammates well being, are afraid to even face the killer, or get upset because something didn’t go their way and DC or hook suicide.
Again, for rescuing a hooked survivor, it should be difficult, though not impossible, to do it. The killer is giving up pressure on the gens to secure a kill. A lone survivor should not be able to walk up in their face and pluck off their teammate. It’s not a 1vs1 game. It should take at least two people to rescue when the killer is there. And if they couldn’t, BT was a thing they could have brought in to help compensate, it didn’t need to be basekit. But, instead, to make things easier for survivors, rather than having them improve at the game, they made it basekit.
As for the 10 seconds increase, it’s literally negligible with all the things you can do to speed up gens and how 70% of maps are survivor favored with strong loop after strong loop. How long has the house in Garden of Joy been complained about by the killer community and nothings been done to it? Yet, when Wraith got a buff that took him from C tier to B tier survivors whined and he got a nerf in no time. How long have been killers been asking for an FOV slider? While they did announce it’s coming, it’s ridiculous how long it took for them to budge on it. Yet, Undying was nerfed into the ground because of incessant whining that “it’s too hard” to find glowing totems, only to find out it really wasn’t because survivors had no problems lighting and relighting boon totems.
The devs do care about killers, just not at the same level as they care about survivors.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547773#Comment_3547773
How exactly do you prevent hitting the guy that gets unhooked without bt to instantly go down right after unhook? do you want 3 people there to block every side of the hook? That would be massive pressure for the killer for basically every single unhook, also when playing soloq having that coordination is rather hard so it is completely fine to have endurance after unhook, if you don't intend to tunnel it won't bother you anyway, unless the guy bodybocks in which case you can tunnel him right after the endurance runs out. Perks are never a good solution for such problems since they are not available to everyone and limit the variation.
Killers had many quality of life changes over the years? What exactly are you talking about?
This whole mentality that the developers would only care about one side is the dumbest thing ever, you guys just see what you want to see and ignore all the changes that the side you feel disadvantaged got.
Never said that killers never got changes and that the devs only care about one side. Don’t put words in my mouth.
Survivors didn’t have much trouble unhooking before BT became basekit. At worst, if one person went there would just be a hook swap. Only time it wasn’t possible was if it was Bubbi, who should have been changed a long time ago. But no, it was too hard to have survivors to work together (which is how they should play) to rescue someone so devs made it easier for them. Yet, when killers complain about gens going to fast, which results in a match that isn’t fun for them, the general consensus on the forums is “skill issue” or “git gud”. Why can’t that same logic be applied to survivors who struggle?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547551#Comment_3547551
just patrol gens?
I think i have had 1 game in my around 800-900 hours as killer where i could not find any survivors.
when you have progress on a gen, its a good indicator that someone is near.
Also Discordance, Gearhead and Tinkerer are good to find out where they are.
Also, i dont think spending 1 perk on some kind of information perk destroys the fun, but you can always play nemisis if you dont want to do that, and use zombies for information.
While I think that slow moving killers needs a buff, i do also think that basekit aura reading is too OP.
Survivors didn’t need any perks to counter camping (and tunneling) they just needed teamwork (unless it was Bubbi Boi, who should have been changed). Instead they got basekit BT, hook grabs removed and now the new anti-camp deliverance. They also had plenty of perks to help them.
If the devs cared for the “player experience”, they should show the same courtesy to killers that they have shown to survivors. It just seems that there is a double standard that it’s okay to cater to bad survivors and improve their experience by dumbing down the game but it’s not okay to do so for bad killers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546970#Comment_3546970
There is a lot of aura reading perks, Ultimate Weapon is very popular atm.
Yea, but there’s nothing basekit and killers shouldn’t have to feel forced to take perks in just likes survivors shouldn’t when it co es to camping, tunneling and potentially slugging. They should be able to go in with fun builds without having to worry about facing boring strategies like how survivors should have to worry about being bored on the hook.
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@Shaped said:
Any examples when latency works in surv favor? I don't want to start anything or deny what you people say but when hitboxes look stupid and you add latency on top of that you can't blame people for being annoyed with this.
Cutting corners and being hit is very annoying to experience. Only equivalent for me is when my camera moves on its own while I play killer on console because survivor is spining.
Um, can’t getting pallet stunned when you’re not under the pallet count? I got stunned lots of times when I thought I was safe or do pallets have invisible extensions?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/391922/noticing-a-trend
From a killer perspective, pallet stuns are unfun.
Exit gate camping is unfun.
Genrushing is unfun.
Don’t forget stealthy Survivors aren’t fun since they prevent the killer from engaging them. Don’t the Devs want players to be engaged? When are they going to give the killers a base kit mechanic to reveal survivors that haven’t engaged them?
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Freddy. I bought him after his rework and he’s so uninteresting to play.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500935#Comment_3500935
You wouldn't dislike it.
Every monster is pretty in their own way.
I’m willing to trust you and wait and see. Well, that is if the devs ever allow it to come to fruition.
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@GeneralV said:
Claudette as a distorted version of Hag would be amazing.
If that means she becomes ugly, then no thank you! I want to feel pretty when I play her! 🥰💅
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Claudette, so I can continue role playing as her and go on a vengeance streak and kill everyone who sandbagged, farmed or abandoned me. Also, it’ll be interesting to see her fall from a kind and good natured role and become evil and hateful.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Can we pretty please just enjoy the fact we got Alien and not go off about fnaf.
No, it’s written in Forum Law that FNAF will always be brought up when a new chapter is near. This law shall never be broken.
Also,
HAHA! NO FNAF!
Hopefully it’ll never come!
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500314#Comment_3500314
You are correct that the problem is between highly coordinated and the uncoordinated, but you’re not correct that comms have nothing to do with it. Comms give a massive advantage to people who use them, saying otherwise is rather ignorant. Teams wouldn’t be able to perform certain plays or be as efficient without the communication.
I'm literally saying that it's not as straight forward as "comms = coordination" and your reply is "uh yes it is duh"? And I'm the ignorant one?
I never once alluded to you ever being ignorant. I don’t appreciate you implying that I am. We can agree to disagree but we don’t have to insult each other over it.
And yea, it is straight forward. At the highest play, SWF wouldn’t be able to make some of the plays and be as efficient and coordinated as they are without the near instant information that is relayed over comms. That doesn’t mean that 4 good Solo players could be efficient and coordinated, it’s just they can never be as good as those with instant communication.
Anyways, I’m not here to argue with people (especially with people who can’t respect me) over what’s the best course of action when it comes to balance. I’m here just to state that balancing SWF by limiting them isn’t punishment.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2K8FOP0TUREK/img-0727.jpeg
Jonesy is in the teaser!!!!! OMG please say the survivor is Ripley. PLEASE. I’M BEGGING.
I came to point this out! I want him as a playable survivor character. Or give him to Ripley as a legendary cosmetic that follows her around during a trial.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500221#Comment_3500221
So then players choosing to play solo queue instead of SWF are making the conscious decision to handicap themselves, and don't need any additional advantages?
It seems like you've just cherrypicked one subset of handicapped players that you feel need buffs, at the expense of other players, who may also be handicapped.
The problem is that the divide is not between SWF and Solo Queue, or even between Voice comms and No voice comms, but between Highly coordinated and Uncoordinated, and while they usually overlap, they don't definitively mean the same thing.
You are simply writing off those who don't conform because you're not one of them and so you're not concerned.
You are correct that the problem is between highly coordinated and the uncoordinated, but you’re not correct that comms have nothing to do with it. Comms give a massive advantage to people who use them, saying otherwise is rather ignorant. Teams wouldn’t be able to perform certain plays or be as efficient without the communication.
And no, players choosing Solo Queue in general are not handicapping themselves since the Devs balance the game around them, where players have limited access to information. They’re playing the game how it’s supposed to be played.
The ones who are handicapped in this game are killers who have to face SWF on coms and Solo Queue players who get paired up with Duos and Trios since the SWFs will usually prioritize their friends over the randoms.
And no, I’m not cherry picking anything. My stance is that if the devs are okay with the power level of SWF using comms, then they should balance the rest of the game around it. They should bring up Solo Queues strength (with the use of information) without allowing SWFs to take advantage of that information to become even stronger.
In the end, it still wouldn’t be a punishment.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498533#Comment_3498533
So you're forcing people to use voice chat when playing in a SWF, in order to make up for the lack of resources they have access to?
No, people choosing to not use outside communication are making the conscious choice to handicap themselves.
They still get the ability to choose their teammates, which is an advantage that Solo Queue will never have.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500092#Comment_3500092
And recieving a handicap others don't get with no upside= punishment
Incorrect. A punishment is an act of retribution for committing an offense. No one is committing an offense when playing as a SWF and the devs wouldn’t be retaliating against anyone by enforcing restrictions.
It’s more of an equivalent exchange since you gain things as a SWF that Solo Queue doesn’t.
Handicaps ≠ punishment.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499736#Comment_3499736
Balancing SWF by restricting things is punishment. Just because you feel like it isn't doesn't make it not.
See what a pointless argument that is.
You have a advantage, it gets taken away because you choose the option to play with friends cause of potential third party communications that you might not want or are able to use. That is what is proposed and that's a fact about it.
Getting advantages taken away for another advantage you might very well not have is being punished. There is no denying that.
Untill you stop thinking that your oppinions are facts and you actually come up with a fact that it isn't being punished your arguments hold no ground
You keep saying it's balances the game better for everyone and i specifically say it doesn't. For SWF who don't use voice chat it doesn't make it better.
Changing soloQ sucks to SWF without comms suck is not a solution. It's shifting the problem.
There is zero reason not to include swf in buffs to soloq's communication cause for people who do use voice comms it wouldn't matter anyway. They already have that information
Balance to make things fair ≠ punishment.
Receiving a handicap because someone is just too good when facing others ≠ punishment.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499419#Comment_3499419
"Well, you can in Dbd because the devs know swf don’t care about fairness or balance and that they’d whine and review bomb the game when they no longer are a powerful as they are."
I'm sorry but this sounds bitter as heck. You can't pull the don't make assumptions about me card after saying stuff like this.
The analogy of the perks also doesn't hold up. There is one thing that you are just missing about this whole argument.
Ruin was nerfed for everybody, Undying was nerfed for everybody. Same with DH and DS. There is no being punished here cause everyone has the same treatment.
With OP's suggestion part of the survivor playerbase gets buffs and while others get completely screwed out of everything. That's where the feeling of punishment is. If you are a swf player who doesn't use comms you just get screwed either way. The playerbase has to be treaten equally.
Sorry, emotion doesn’t always transfer well through text. I’m not bitter about what I wrote, it’s just the truth. When it comes to balance or money, gaming corporations will always choose money. It’s a fact that is a little frustrating but still a fact nonetheless. Doesn’t mean I hate SWF and definitely doesn’t give you enough reasoning to assume that about me.
Limiting SWF will make the game better for everyone just as the nerfs to perks. It would finally allow the devs to bring Blight and Nurse down a lever or two while making weaker characters a little better and make maps a bit more fair.
Again, balancing SWF by restricting a few things isn’t punishment. Just because some may view or feel that it is doesn’t make it so.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499172#Comment_3499172
I think you're taking games a bit too seriously... ensuring you have a stable connection to play is understandable but to say that people who have children can go screw themself is quite the take...
I don't play in SWF. I just have basic human empathy and understand that you are screwing over more people who didn't rely on voice comms in swf. Not to mention what a shoot your own foot bussiness idea that would be. I'm all for bringing solo closer to swf level but taking away base features for people who play with friends is not the way to do it.
Name me one succesfull game that takes features away solely for picking the option of playing with friends.
Nobody does it cause it's a stupid idea that will just push people away.
Especially in DbD case. SwF with comms main advantage is information so giving that information to all doesn't help them one bit. There, game is more fair for everyone without flipping off people who play with friends and don't use comms.
And that is exactly what they did with the hud update.
I'm not even sure what you are trying to accomplish. You say that swf with comms needs penalties cause they are so unfair and unbalanced but are arguing for a change that will push more people into using comms with swf.
If you add basekit features to solo q and not swf then people who played swf with comms will still play swf with comms. Some might try to game the system by lobby hopping. and people who used to play swf with no comms will feel forced to play with comms to not be handicapped.
You're litteraly making more people play the thing you hate and allowing a way for swf with comms to sneak in these benefits anyway making them even stronger. That's just very backwards thinking.
I don’t hate SWF, so please don’t put words in my mouth or make assumptions about me.
Pushing more people to SWF would be a good thing, maybe then the devs would stop dragging their feet and actually balance the game around it. And no, I’m not taking the game too seriously, though I’d argue that you are, acting as if you’re being punished if the devs were to restrict certain thing in Swf for the sake of balance.
Ruin and Undying were nerfed. People purchased specific killers for those perks and expected them to remain powerful, yet the devs deemed it fit to nerf them for the sake of balance. Was that punishing the players who used/relied on those perks or was it just balancing the game for the sake of the majority of the player base?
Same for DS and Dead Hard, we’re survivors who used them punished when they got nerfed? No, everything that was changed was for the sake of the playerbase. It’s no difference if the devs some limitations on SWF. You can call it whatever you want, doesn’t change the fact that balancing the game to make things fair is not a punishment.
Also, you not liking an idea doesn’t make it stupid.
There are three things the devs can do:
- They can balance around SWF
- They can restrict some aspects of SWF (removes features or restrict item/perk repetition)
- They can continue to ignore SWF and keep on letting Solo Queue and Killers stay frustrated with the game and eventually leave the game.
You can argue that changing SWFs would leave the game, but since everyone believes they’re just a small percentage of the player base, it wouldn’t be much of a loss, would it? Unless they’re more numerous than what everyone really thinks.
Anyways, my point isn’t what is best for the game, my point is very simple- Changes to SWF for the sake of balance is not punishing people who choose to play in one. You are still playing the game and you still have the advantage of instant information, coordination and having the ability to not have solo queue potatoes on your team. The three of those things are more than enough of a compensation to have a few in game restrictions.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498533#Comment_3498533
Who says anything about playing chill? There are other reasons why people are restricted from using voice chat.
If people have kids and a baby is sleeping close to them they can't talk. Is the choice of having a child also handicapping themself?
Hell with that logic why bother changing anything at all. If you play soloq you are handicapping yourself and the lack of communications shouldn't matter since you're not interrested in playing competitively right?
At the end of the day giving kindred to solo only or giving kindred to everybody solves the same problem. As swf on comms has that information anyway.
Taking it away from swf seems just spitefull and is a massive feelbad mechanic.
How is making the game balanced for everyone spiteful? Sure, you may lose something as a SWF is the game limits information, but you gain a lot more in return. I assumed that your reasoning to play in a SWF wasn’t for an in game advantage but because you simply want to play with your friend. If that’s not the case, then your stance isn’t about balance and more about keeping SWF unbalanced and not to make things better for killers or solo. I mean, your whole argument is you shouldn’t be punished for playing with friends, which you wouldn’t be, the game is being balanced around the fact that you have more coordination and communication. That isn’t punishment, no matter how hard you cry it is.
Someone having children isn’t the games problem, that’s their problem. It’s the same for people who have spotty internet. Don’t play online multiplayer games if you can’t commit and not handicap your team. If you choose to do so, don’t complain that your experience can’t be the same as everyone else’s.
People play solo queue because that’s what the base game is. It’s what the devs balance for. You can still play competitively without outside resources and the devs can adjust things when it skews too much to once side.
Playing with friends is not enough of a reason to not make things fair for everyone else. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Well, you can in Dbd because the devs know swf don’t care about fairness or balance and that they’d whine and review bomb the game when they no longer are a powerful as they are. So I guess you shouldn’t worry!
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498602#Comment_3498602
I mean isn't that what people wanted? Maps to get gutted into being awful for survivors?
Garden of Joy is next.
No, people wanted maps to be fair with loops being 50/50 for both sides. They just didn’t want strong loop into stronger loop into shack into TL into cow tree.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498348#Comment_3498348
You can say it's for balance and to make it fair but at the end of the day you have basekit features taken away solely because you decided to play with friends. If you have a 2 man swf you lose coordination with half your team and your entire team if you don't end up using voicechat. That is undeniably being punished for playing with friends.
Why would i still use the swf option then? It just handicaps me for no reason other then the assumption that we are going to go navy seals on comms. Why shouldn't my friend and me then hop lobbies untill we are together in soloq so we can have the benefit of both the base kit features and swf. I know people will do this cause that's what they did before SWF was introduced.
Taking features away because you want to play with friends is a horrible idea that will just drive people away.
If you give kindred basekit to soloq you might as well give it to swf as well. If they use comms they don't learn anything they couldn't tell eachother and if they don't they don't get punished for no reason
No, restricting certain aspects of the game when in a SWF is not a horrible idea nor is it punishing people for playing with friends. It is finally balancing the game to make if fair for everyone. What you lose in restrictions you make up with out of game communication and being able to pick your teammates, knowing you can rely on them and not have to worry about being paired with bad players. You can scream PUNISHMENT all you want, it doesn’t make it so.
You should be choosing to play SWF because you want to play with your friend and be able to pick your teammates not not rely on randoms that you may or may not be matched with. Not because you have the option to tilt the match in your favor and get features that the game isn’t balanced around.
You can hop lobbies all you want. The game isn’t what it once was, odds are you’ll end up queuing up as a swf because it’ll take too long to get matched up with them.
You choosing to play chill is your choice. You’re handicapping yourself. And if you are playing chill, then the restrictions that will apply when you queue up as a swf shouldn’t matter since you’re not interested in playing competitively.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Isn't that just punishing people for having friends? Not every swf uses comms you know.
This kinda thing is going to promote lobby hopping and the matchmaking gets screwed by dodging enough as it is
No, it’s not punishing people for having friends. It’s balancing the game in order to make it more fair for people who don’t have the advantage of outside communication. That communication and the resulting coordination is more than enough of an advantage if the devs ever decide to restrict in game information for SWF.
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@[Deleted User] said:
@Huge_Bush our local tree expert care to weigh in?
All will submit and be assimilated into The Bush. None can withstand our Might.
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Don’t hold your breath. They promised it years ago for last generation and very little came to fruition.
As things stand, I really think nothing short of a total rewrite of the games engine would be enough. It’s like every chapter breaks something and it only gets worse as time goes on.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489612#Comment_3489612
Good point, my friend!
I've always thought of SWF as an unsolvable problem. Players are doing nothing wrong, they are just playing with their friends, but DBD is (...was? I don't know how things currently are) built around a certain lack of information. That is why we have perks like Alert and Premonition, which gives players limited amounts of information, and the reason why the old OoO had a dangerous drawback. Using comms gives a huge advantage, where it shouldn't.
But I don't think anything can be done about it. Playing as an extremely sweaty Nurse/Blight is also a huge advantage, but there is no altering one without touching the other.
And the players caught in the crossfire? Well, they just suffer.
Such is the way of things.
Oh my goodness! A response from the General himself! Screw the topic! I’m just happy you’re still around! 💜💜💜💜💜
How’ve you been? Hope things are well for you?! I haven’t been playing due to my PC dying one me 😭. I think it’s a good thing, my addiction seems to be slowly breaking!
So as not to get in trouble for going off topic, there isn’t much the Devs can do. If they balance maps, the game would get stale. If they need Nurse and Blight without touching Swf, the sweaty, high MMR killers would quit and the low/average MMR killers would quit after the SBMM system throws them to the wolves (sweaty swf) since no more good killers are around.
It’s a damned if you do and damned if you don’t. As things are now, Solo is the best it’s ever been, especially with the base kit BT and the action icons in the HUD that lets you know what teammates are doing. The biggest problem with Solo isn’t Nurse or Blight or OP killers, it’s bad, lazy, and/or entitled survivors who DC/suicide because things don’t go their way. Devs can’t really do much for that.
Hope you are doing well and hope, for your sake, old Sir Fredrick makes a comeback into the game.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489678#Comment_3489678
Like i said, if there is way to nerf SWFs without nerfing Solos, sure. I am with you. But there is no way to do this.
And if i am biased ( i am not ) so you are. I never saw you are talking anything good for survivors. I only saw from you, nerf this nerf that. Killers are victims bla bla bla.
Look your posts first before calling someone biased.
And yeah, i wish you would take my all 3-gen SMs, P100 Blight and Nurses. I am just glad Wesker is popular, so i am having some fun to play survivor.
Please go through my post history and quote the posts where I ask for nerfs.
There is a way to nerf SWF without hurting Solo. Devs could just put restrictions on repeat perks and/or items and add-ons when 3 or more players form a SWF. They won’t because of backlash.
I don’t need to say anything good or bad for survivors. I think they’re in a good spot and that the game is as balanced as it will ever be. My main issue with this game are the lopsided maps that the devs refuse to balance fairly. And if you’ve actually paid attention to my posts, you’d see I’m all for nerfing Nurse and Blight only after they make maps more fair for weaker killers, not before.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489661#Comment_3489661
Oh yeah, it always player's fault. It's not Nurse who ignores all of core mechanics. Silly me. I am going to corner and shaming myself for being such a noob.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489663#Comment_3489663
Yeah these killers are so rare.
That's why i am always getting daily Blight and Nurse whenever i touch to play survivor.
And i won't stop complaining about them unless devs fix them. I stopped complain about Spirit because she is fine now.
So we all should play SWF for having chance to against these busted killers. Is that your point? Are you solo? Just die and feed kill-rates already!!! Nice logic.
They are rare. Maybe you are one of the few survivors who swears your ass off to win and are stuck in high MMR and are stuck facing the same players because the game thinks lower skilled players are too weak to be your opponents.
I admit I haven’t played in a month since my PC died, but even then, when I played, I played SoloQ or SM Myers. When playing SoloQ I hardly ever faced Nurse or blight. If maybe see them once out of every twenty matches. And no, I didn’t just die and feed the kill rates. I maybe escaped 40-50% of my matches and most of the killers were at the level that I had a fighting chance. Most of the time, I’d die saving a teammate after gens are done.
You can complain all you want. It doesn’t make you right and it doesn’t mean what you complain about is broken. You not liking something does not equate to it being broken. You try to come if as unbiased but your posts drip of bias with every letter you type. It’s really easy to sum up your opinion- it’s not okay for survivors to face strong killers that they have to be really good at the game in order to win, but it’s okay for killers to face strong survivors in a team that are on comms, that the game isn’t balanced around.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489612#Comment_3489612
Not really. Game survived when Nurse killswitched. I am sure reworking Nurse and nerfing Blight add-ons won't affect game as well. Because killers are already strong enough to win most of games. Except Trapper, Myers and some of other weak killers. But most of killers are just fine.
And you guys should stop using SWF as excuse. Any time people ask for nerfing unbalanced things: BUT SWFs exist!!! So what? You are winning against most of SWF teams as well. But good Nurses and Blights are not rare. They are pretty popular killers, especially Blight.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489625#Comment_3489625
Another SWF excuse for busted killers.
Most of SWF teams are casual players. You are winning against countless SWF teams without noticing it.
And there is no way to nerf SWF without nerfing Solo teams as well. Do you really want to nerf solo teams?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489631#Comment_3489631
Most of maps are pretty open. Only newest maps are good against Nurse and people are already asking nerf for these maps. Most of times you will get old maps because we have only 3 newest maps which is good against Nurse.
So Nurse will be fine most of times.
Kill switching a Killer is not the same as nerfing one. Players understood that something wasn’t working as intended and was being fixed, nothing was being nerfed.
Using Good SWF is a valid argument when it comes to game balance. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. And no, Good Blights and Nurses are not common. They’re as common as good Sweaty Swat SWF squads. If they were as common as you claim, there would be much more complaining on the forums and social media due to the simple fact that the survivor main population is 4X more than the killer.
You should stop complaining about strong killers. Good, coordinated SWF win against them in most of their matches. They’re not rare, survivors love playing in teams with out of game communications and rushing gens so they can win as fast as possible.
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Devs know that Nerfing Nurse (and Blight) without reducing the power of good SWFs will result in major backlash that will probably tank their killer main population. They won’t touch SWF because, even for the sake of balance, players will view it as a punishment for playing with friends.
If they won’t balance the game around the strongest players on one side, then they really can’t do the same for the other and not be accused of being biased. One may argue that SWF isn’t a problem because the sweaty swat squads are few in number, which is a fair argument, then the same can be said for Nurse (and Blight), since the really good players who can maximize their potential are few in number and thus, aren’t really much of a problem in the grand scheme of things.
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- Bush cosmetic for Claudette that changes shape and color depending on the map. If it’s an indoor map, it will take the form of an object such as a trash can.
- Myers rework. Scratched Mirror becomes base-kit. Scratched Mirror and Vanity Mirror now increase his movement speed and/or Lunge Range. Myers can no longer kill someone that isn’t on death hook but gets a base-kit mori with a new animation. Iridescent Add-ons completely reworked.
- New Mario-Kart-esque game mode where killer has to try and bump survivor vehicles off of the map.
- Overhaul of character customization. No more linked sets. More cosmetic slots. More base cosmetics, option to recolor cosmetics for a hefty blood point cost.
- Community Cosmetic Contest gets increased to 3 times a year (okay, 2 times if three is pushing it). Only, from now on, the community votes for the top four (two killer and two survivor cosmetics).
- More interactive maps with more places to hide (survivors and killers being able to climb into barrels). Slippery floors, sand pits that slow you down, water that you have to swim through.
- The games code finally gets rewritten from the ground up. New (better) servers as well please.
- DS activates after first and second hook stage but still deactivated once gens are completed.
- Gate progress regresses after 35 seconds.
- Ruin nerf gets reverted.
- Undying gets buffed and transfers hexes two (maybe 3)times. Survivors had no problems repeatedly blessing totems, so this shouldn’t be an issue.
- Pig Nerf
- Female Cenobite Legendary (From the latest movie)cosmetic for Mr Baldy.
- More side objectives for survivors.
- Maps changed to be more fair for M1 killers and rebalancing of Nurse and Blight (buy not before maps are more fair). Also, make stealth for survivors more viable.
- Copycat scratched mirror add-on for Ghostie.
- Candyman Legendary for Artist. Instead of crows, large phantom bees will be used and when survivors get hit, they’ll be attacked by a bee swarm.
- Scooby Doo cosmetics for survivors and killers. Victor gets a Scrappy Doo cosmetic.
- Power Rangers Chapter.
- Konosuba Cosplay cosmetics. Claudette gets to dress up as Darkness. Killers get cosplay if the Demon Kings Generals.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477296#Comment_3477296
I want shirtless Steve.... mmmmmmmmmm
Imagine, shirtless Steve wearing scoops ahoy shorts…….🤤
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For me, happened a while ago, but was against a Doctor who tunneled from the start. He didn’t get any kills and managed to down someone he tunneled most of the match when the gates were powered, only it was in a corner. I crouched and body blocked him and he had no idea, just kept trying to move without hitting me. The survivor got free and we all escaped.
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Who knows, maybe one of the upcoming chapters will be a Stranger Things chapter with Vecna as the killer, and for survivors we’d get (Shirtless)Billy, Eddie, Robin, Hopper, Joyce and Murray as survivors/legendaries? Maybe a new scorched Demopup cosmetic.
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Devs are focused on releasing new killers, Feng Cosmetics, and giving Killers motion sickness. They don’t have the time to focus on lesser played characters.
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To play as, Scratched Mirror Myers. Was the only killer I could actually have fun with and not feel like I needed to stress about winning.
To play against, a baby Nurse. Makes me feel like a pro looper for once, since I usually can’t loop well.
Other than Nurse, I equally like going against Nemo, Mr Baldy, non-basement camping Bubbi Boi, Clever Piggies that let me boop and a really good Demopup.
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@LobbyDodgerLeonidas said:
How is Lery's a killer sided map? It's gigantic, it has lots of strong loops and windows, it destroys ranged killers (ESP in the MFT meta) and the S tier killers, you can't defend the doors in EGC, and it doesn't spawn such tight 3-gens and 4-gens anymore (I believe they changed this when they adjusted Haddonfield gen spawns). There's no way this map is good for anyone besides maybe like Ghostface
Scratched Mirror Myers and Spooky Wraith do well in it too. That’s about it.
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If the devs actually go through with this, I’ll never touch killer again. I can’t play Nurse because of the forced camera perspective, no way can I play killer if it happens after every M1.
I haven’t been able to touch Dbd for a few weeks now, this change makes me not want to rush.
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Stop playing Trapper. He’s only good if you play Basement Trapper and even then it’s boring. He’s the weakest killer in the game unless you’re facing brand new survivors.
Start off with Wraith just so you can get a feel for the game. Go on YouTube and look up videos on “How to play Killer in Dbd” to learn more.
SWF are strong and more common than people on here would have you believe, but they’re not all unbeatable. I recommend you don’t play killer in the evenings after 7:30PM, especially on the weekend.
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No. I need it for my Scratched Mirror Myers.
You can make it a little smaller, but that’s it.
Also, bring back Hawkins.