Gwinty
Gwinty
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@joeyjordisonsnipples said:
Just played three matches consecutively where the killer camped then tunneled after unhook. To all killer mains, why use this strategy? As a survivor main, camping and tunneling feels unfun & therefore monotonous, to say the least. If anybody pledges to this gameplay style please explain why, as I may be missing the point.
I will tunnle you if you:
- Flashlight flicker me (after the unhook)
- You have key (this is like painting a target on you body)
- Try to use Borrow Time to bodyblock (I wait, you BT runs out, you go back on the hook asap)
- I just randomly run into you after the unhook (please try to evade me...at least a bit)
- You are the only one I can find after the unuhook (you healed under the hook, Claudett went behind a rock and you stand there on the silver plate for me)
- Your teammates throw you under the bus by not taking any heat and always camping safe tiles (why should I hunt them when you are the better target?)
I hate camping as it is boring as hell. However I will camp you if I see one of your teammates coming for the rescue or if the exit gates are open. In the second scenario I will lose all control over the game by going away from you as your team will most likely come to the rescue and escape through the other gate. Also if you teammate loops me right next to you...well, I guess you can call it camping but what am I supposed to do? Let you both go in oder to travel to the other side of the map and see an unhook AND a gen popping?
As you see I got some reasons for tunneling you or camping the hook. Most times it is because there are no other choices.
As an example however: I will teleport away as Freddy ALL of the time, because I use BBQ and I see where the next target is. My goal is to constantly stay in chase AND to stack my BBQ full. As such camping you or tunneling you is a wast of my time. Also as Bubba I will leave you alone as I want BBQ stacks and have to be an example of a Bubba. Same with Ghostface, I will go away because I use BBQ. However if you reveal me from an unsafe spot when we cross paths later I will switch my target to you most of the time. Do not reveal me as Ghostface and I will not target you right away.
That said I have no compassion for Killers who facecamp and tunnel of the hook. They deserve to loose especial if the abuse Bubba for that.
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Billy and Bubba act different for me. I play them both. Billy was my first Killer and I love him. Good mobility, rewarding gameplay but useless add-ons and strange hitboxes for the chainsaw.
I originaly bought Bubba because I wanted BBQ. Then I played him and he is fun to play. He has not that much map mobility but his gameplay can be equaly rewarding. Good survivors can outplay you at many opportunitys while you get an equal chance to outplay them here. He plays different from Billy as you can not pull those crazy moves with him but you are much more dangerous at close range.
That said: Billy needs some love. Better Add-Ons would be nice. They should alternate his power and not just give him a bit more steering or something like that. And his hitbox should be a bit more consistent.
Also: Bubba who is camping is a pain. I hate Bubbas who play with insidious and do not go out. Yes, you can defend the basement. But Bubba has so much more to offer then dumb camping. Also...how are you supposed to stack BBQ when you just camp like a dummy.
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@Orion said:
This game is 1 v 4 and therefore must be slightly biased towards favoring survivor
In order for matches to be made, playing survivor has to be slightly more appealing than playing killer.
Therefore survivors should be given a minor advantage to keep match making going smoothly.
It's literally the opposite. People will gravitate toward playing a multiplayer game with other people if they can, and if the game is to be balanced, it must favor killers in 1v1 situations. Otherwise, you're going to be waiting in that queue for a long, long time.
My personal experience confirms this.
I like playing Killer but as soon as my two friends are online we play survivor together. It is just more fun that way. True sometimes one of us plays Killer alone while the others are online but that is mostly when one is eating, we provide the entertainment to to others.
The balance problem is that you can not balance this game around a 1 vs 4. It is more like a 1 vs 1, 2, 1 or 1 vs 1 , 3. So you do not even have a stable number of "vs" here as it splits. The difference between a 1 vs 4 and a 1 vs 3 , 1 is massive assuming all players are on the same skill level. However not even this is true as you can play against a bad 4 SWF or against 4 brilliant single survivors.
My most feared set up is it when all 4 survivors start the trial seperated and I frist chase that one very good survivor. Then I drop chase because nothing comes from it and search the next one, two gens pop, and the next one is also good. Not finding the "weak link" early dooms me harder than any 4 SWF. Because even if there is a bad survivor I just wasted 2/4 gen chasing the good ones. 4 SWF tend to often be ultra altruistic for their "weak link" and you can abuse that.
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@kisfenkin said:
I don't agree. He needs more nerfs than just a tentacle slow. He gets 4k nearly every game because he has more advantages than any other killer in his basekit. He is shown where you are if you open a vaccine box. He is shown where you are if you are near a zombie. He is fast enough to end all loops while swinging around his tentacle. They also need to remove his ability to see the zombies auras and the notification of the vaccine boxes. He needs to be slower at full power, too.
He needs major nerfs. If you are a killer main investing all your blood in him I would think twice! He won't be so OP forever, because the numbers do not lie. He's killing everyone. I have written down the details of every match since his release and out of around 200 matches he is the most used killer by far (somewhere in between 25% and 50%), and he has gotten 4k in all but FOUR matches. No other killer even comes close to that. If this continues the devs know they won't keep new players. BHVR NEED 4x the survivors as they do killers, so they desperately need to balance this better. Nerfs are coming, don't waste your blood!
You know...
If you lose so many games to Nemesis than maybe you should adjust the way you play a bit. You know that guy is called a "Killer" for a reason. He is not a fluffy pony, he is supposed to be dangerous.
Or maybe if you lost so many games you are just not that good.
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The thing is that Repressed gets better when you are with a friend or two friends.
You can tell them that you locked that Gen and that you are getting chased and they can get on your Gen and finish it. This makes it very strong with a bit communication.
In SoloQ I would consider Repressed Alliance not that great as you depend on your team. With a good team it can save the day with bad teammates you wast a slot.
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I do not think that new players will leave because Nemesis is too weak.
Because new players will not feel that weakness early on. At low ranks Killers get more viability because you get worse survivors. People do not manage their time efficiently. As such they will have fun matches until they get a bit higher and then they will feel the difference in experience mostly and not the lag in the power.
I think we should wait a bit and then give Nemesis a buff if he needs to. PTB is not realy a good test as people lack perks and there are not enough players there. However I personaly think that he needs a buff: Either the Speedbost from infection should go away or T3 should have more impact.
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@Pulsar said:
He needs buffs, not nerfs.
I vote for more zombies. Nemesis should have 3 braindead companions at his side to even the odds.
Also more zombies are always good. Maybe they can trigger Bills PTSD.
Okay and now for real...
Yes, Nemesis needs a bit of love. I would opt for a stronger T3 (cooldown reduction would be nice or maybe that he does not slow down while charging the tentacle anymore?) and most important: Bug fixes.
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@BenZ0 said:
- Try to find the weakest player of them 4, there is always one boosted player who is just a m1 legend.
- Use a smart combination of slugging, tunneling and camp. Dont overdo any of that.
- Play save and dont be greedy that means try to "hide" some perks for a better situation, imagine you have pop, dont use it on the first gen on 10% you see.
- And last but not least, get better at the game, experience is a huge part of it. Just keep playing, if you lose dont get frustrated and keep going, try to adapt from your mistakes and make it better next time!
This.
Identify the weak link(s) and punish them. Do this by setting yourself a time limit how long you want to chase somebody. If it takes to long and you do not get anything out of it (pallets, hits or downs), search for another survivor. Yes, slugging and checking / defending the hook can be
Do not dodge the Lobby. You will not get better by avoiding trouble.
And as said in 4. get good and learn to keep your cool. This is a very important skill in this game: Keeping your cool. Do not let anyone get on your nerves just because they have a funky flashlight and quick vault a window.
If you play cool there is a chance that they get cocky and that you can punish it. Most people lack the disciplin especialy if they want to "bully" you.
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I like Midwich.
It has a good aestetic and fits the horror theme of the game quiet nice.
Not my favourite map but a good one.
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I play with 2 friends on a regular base. We are not good but I notive a huge gape between playing as 3 and playing as 2. The ammount of information ist just that much more helpful. You can try to mimic this effect with Kindred and Bond. However the difference is that in one scenario I have to give up two Perk slots while in the other I can play Deliverance and We are gonna live forever.
If you play against a stealth Killer this can become frustrating for the Killer very fast. Especialy if two survivors communicate who both have Spine Chill. You can almost always tell where the Killer is and who is gonna get chased next. Worsed case: A survivor plays steak out and watches the stealth Killer from a distance. Breaking Ghostface out of stealth constantly or telling them how long Myers was able to stalk.
Even if you are not pinpoint accurate this makes the Killers life much harder. Ghostface looses his power fare more often and Myers gets called out for his Tombstone Piece of Ribbon add-on.
Survivors with friends is a huge step up in difficulty for a Killer.
This is not saying that I do not like to play against them as a Killer or that they should be straight up get nerfed. Most times you do not go against a 4 man team with a discord. Most times it is a 2 1 1, 2 2 or 3 1 lobby. However the difference is there and there is no need to deny it. In a game where time is everything a little bit more communication can give you an edge.
Also not many survivors communicate that much. Hell, me and my two friends do only communicate some rudementary stuff like "I am getting chased here", "Ghostface is over there", "Do not run here", "Killer has Add-On X" and so on. But even with this it become a different atmosphere and that fact should be noted.
Balancewise this is a nightmare for a developer. My suggestion is therefor not to just nerf SWF but to give Killers a note after the match and maybe some points so that you know: That player was just that good and this team had the edge over me because they communicated. That way a Killer can reflect his playstile and make adjustments next time he notices a certain behaivor. It lets the Killers learn and get better that way without nerfing SWF.
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Ghostface. With a constant headache because his reveal mechanic acts strange at least once a day but I just love him. They did a good job with his DbD story in my opinion.
And Adam as a survivor because I like the guy. His backstory is cool, Deliverenace is a fun perk and the pebble is just epic.
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Meyrs taking no skill?
Okay, you opinion but I do not think you could back that one up with any reasonable argument or data.
I for my part think that Self Care is the Killer which requires no skill. A survivor just brings this and tyrs to heal through a Sloppy Butcher or in the corner and it will kill their entire team almost as fast as a DC.
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@van9684 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/260253/dear-devs-stop-listening-to-otz
I agree. You won’t find honest discussion on here sadly. This is killer main central and they’ll gang up on you to say it’s your fault, your bad at the game, and statistics aren’t real. It’s every post but you’re right. Basing a game on the skill of a red rank dude who plays 8 hours a day is not healthy for the regular play base and it shows. Survivor sucks to play. It’s basically a kill simulator for killers now to get easy 4K games each round.
Okay then, you want a discussion but start the post in an offensive way with a nice ad hominem to everyone who does not agree with the OP. Also you straight up rule out that it could be the fault of the survivor and say that the other side does not listen to statistics.
Please tell me which statistic you are talking about.
Also tell me what is the expectation you have for a Killer? How many hooks / kills should a Killer get or do you measure the perfomance of a Killer in a different way.
We need to get some groundwork done before we can discuss this topic.
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What is interesting is that this is Franklin's original mechanic to an extend. That perk used to reduce the charges of an item when you hit a basic attack. I too think that this is a buff. Now Franklins can help me against Flashlights, Toolboxes, Medkits and even Maps.
Keys are an issue on their own and I do not think that Franklins was a healthy solution for them anyway.
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@BronzeHandModel said:
For me it was one my first matches. Rank 20 or 19 as a surv. I was the First who got hooked and was facecamped to death. When i was complaining about it, the killer and two other survs offended me with really bad words even i didnt offend anyone. I had two exhaustion Perks, thats why they hated me. I know now that perkbuild was dumb but i was new and not used to all that stuff. I nearly stopped playing dbd forever. But im glad i didnt and now i know better and ignore people like that.
Do not let them get to you.
A part of this game is to keep your cool at all times and never let people get onto your nerves so easy. I know it is hard, I loose my cool too, but working on this is an important skill.
My worst moment? Yesterday I had a match as Bubba. There was a bug that prevented me from going through one of the exits of the main building of Temple of Purgation. I was up against a group of fairly skills survivors and they ran through the main building again and again. I always had to let them go when they want through that exits. It was so frustrating because I could not do anything and when I first tried it my Tantrum triggered as if I had hit something. I lost the game badly because of this and it realy got onto my nerves. I stopped playing yesterday because of that.
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@iloveuimcrazyimsorry said:
I play on console so I just got to start playing Nemesis and I caught a bully squad my second game. I want to enjoy the ######### game. I am actually crying. I want to play the ######### game. I am sick of this ######### this game and ######### its community. I am so tired of it.
I suggest you take a break, get a nice drink (juice, coffee, beer, whatever you like) and then get back to it.
You are playing a new Killer after a break from the game if I am right. As such you should go into the game with reasonable expectations. Do not stress youself. Bully squads exist but it is in your control if they can get to your nerves or not.
I was in the same position. I was angry, I was disappointed and I had no fun.
For me the solution was to get "BBQ & Chilly" and now I play most games with the goal to stack that Perk full. If I can do this, then I played a good match. This mini game realy helped me to calm down and relax and I started to apply it to other Killers and with other perks. Set reasonable goals. As an example I rescently tryied out Pyramide Head and my goal was to get one person into a cage. All 4 escaped but I caged that one guy. Goal archived, feels good.
You are not a pussy and you are not bad at this game. As I said: You play a new Killer. So you are just learning him and should set you goals accordningly. Maybe set a score on how many tentacles you can hit or make it a challenge for you to get the mutation to max as fast as possible and look if you can increase your record a bit each time? (Serious i have no idea how to play Nemesis...) Set some goal that could help you long term to improve yourself and have fun when you accomplish some of those goals.
Just please, do not stress yourself. This is a game and we play it for fun. Even if it does not alway look like it.
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@AlanTheMelonOrEntity said:
I play rank 5 survivor and a lot of the killers I play against bubbas. Why tho? Easiest killer to loop and get away from imo. Leatherface has no powers or abilities that let him catch up and his chainsaw is pretty useless unless a survivor is far from any pallet or vault spot.
Why do you think so. Bubba can catch up to a Sprint Burst with his chainsaw and still hit the survivor if he plays it right. His speed can become quiet insane even without add-ons. A good Bubba who knows the perfect way to run loops while swinging his chainsaw can be pretty scary. Also Bubba can use his chainsaw for mobility across the map if played right.
The sad thing is that most Bubba players are either bad or try to slug and camp. This drains all the fun out of an otherwise pretty good killer. A good Bubba that does not camp or slug but rather chases you and knows how to manage his chainsaw is a fun opponent to face. Sadly they are rare.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I fail to see how this friend is in the wrong here? Tunneling/camping/slugging are all reportable offenses in the unsportsmanlike category, this is indisputable. Killers who employ these tactics are actively cheating the survivors out of a fair match, preventing them from playing the game and earning blood points.
@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2276311#Comment_2276311
Don’t campers forget they are playing agaisnt a real person? They have every right to be mad. Autoban will finally fix this game.
You call the optimal tactic in the game (at some points) bad and tell the Killer to play to your rules. On what ground? You want pity and compassion just because of...well what?
It is clearly statet that non of these is a offense that is bannable. BHVR has made that clear as daylight.
Sure the survivor can be mad about this. But that does not mean it is unsportsmanlike or an offense at all. Also it is not cheating do not even suggest that. The Killer is playing to his objective which is to get sacrifices. What you call a "fair match" here is asking the Killer to be the NPC in this game.
You seem to misunderstand that even thou a tactic is not "nice" it is not unsportsmanlike. Just because a tactic is not "fun for you" it is not bannable and just because you can not play what you lable a "fair game" does not mean the action was "unfair". The rules of this game are made by BHVR and not by the survivor rulebook.
Is it "unsportsmanlike" to gank the same person over and over again in League of Legends? Is it "unsportsmanlike" to focus the healer/support first? Is it unsportsmanlike to stall for time or provoke an offside in soccer? I do not think so. Sure this is boring an the players on the receiving end have less fun. But it is in the game and it is not against the rules.
If you want this gone then you should appeal for change the rules with clear reasoning. Not try to punish things that are not against the rules just because you do not like them.
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I personaly do not slug for the 4k. Just because I do not like this aspect and because I like the endgame chase and the search.
However I do understand Killers doing it. The game gives you more points for hooking all survivors 3 times or at least sacrificing them. I does not give you points for letting the last suvivor escape. Quiet the opposide it reduces your rating because you let somebody escape.
Now if the only way to get that last sacrifice is to slug and chase the final survivor then this is optimal play.
You are complaining about Killers playing to their objective in the best possible way.
On which ground do you demand this from the Killer?
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To be fair I do not just see this issue with hitboxes.
I main Ghostface and his reveal as well as his lean-mechanics are based on the dedicated server. This leads to me getting revealed by a guy behind a brickwall who looked at my position about a year ago. This is something I am used to.
However I recently played more and startet to lean a lot more. And when I say a lot I mean it. Most times I crouche and then want to lean off an object however the option to lean just does not appear. You must wait about what feels like 1-2 seconds before I can lean and this is pretty bad. I usually have a ping of 30-40 on rare occasions I go up to 50. But this issue is always there.
Now imagin I play around an unsafe pallet with a wall blocking the line of sight. Normaly I would be able to lean off the wall, see the survivor slide and get stalk progress when the survivor slides back. The goal is to do this until I get the survivor exposed. As Ghostface stalkes twice as fast while leaning this cuts the time this game takes in half. Not only do I loose precious time here, I also risc getting revealed because the way the game detects the line of sight the survivor has with latency.
Normaly you are able to get a survivor exposed quiet good by this methode. I tried it with a friend to compare if it is not because I am a miserable player who does it too slow. Most of the time however the "lean" option does not appear quick enough and I must play this suboptimal.
Now do not get me wrong. I understand that there are bound to be some imperfections in this game as the connection matters. But if the connection to the servers screws me when I interact with an object, then I feel like something should get optimized. I see wanky hits I get them as a survivor and I get them as a Killer. They are not fine but I can live with it...however when it screws my killers mechanics then I get a bit mad.
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This is one of the moments where I feel sorry for the person on the hook. When I as a killer am on their heels and they go for the unhook with no BT and that poor soul gets in my way because I assumed they are trying to bodyblock with BT while it is the opposide: Their teammate threw them under the bus and used them as a meatshield.
I do not think this is intentional. I think they mean it well and have good intentions. But then they chicken out in the last second because I hit them.
Do not assume that people have a malicious intent. Think about them as poor fools who do not know it better. This is much better then to holde a grude against them.
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Complaining about Bubba?
Seriously, Bubba got a good rework. His power is still easy to learn and hard to master. You got crap Bubbas who go into tantrum every single time because they mess up and you got god Bubbas who run around the loop with the chainsaw and catch you. His rework made him finaly have some skill expression.
That people abuse him is bad, yes. But that should not lead to a nerf for a killer that has meaningful counterplay and skill expression. Yes Bubba is no rocket science, but he is a good piece of work.
Most times when multiple people get downed it is their fault: I rescently had a few survivors trying to finish a generator right in my face. They did not even flinch when I reved up my chainsaw and only on got up to run away. I got three people down with all 3 charges while they got their generator finished. After that they complained about Bubba being to strong...
But yeah, it mus be Bubbas fault for having "no counterplay"...
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Seriously, if they are begging for it, just hook them again. Wait 12 seconds and play the waitings game. Borrow Time is fine here as it has counterplay (counting down) and you can learn it. Its nothing highly mechanical it is just counting.
If a survivor wants to bodyblock, let them be and walk around them or take the bait, wait it out and down him again after BT runs out and then hook or slug the survivor depending on the situation and if you suspect a Deceisive Strike.
Sure they will complain about "tunneling". And yes you tunneled here but you tunneled on an invitation. If someone tries to bodyblock they are inviting you to a chase and they pay the price if they screw it up. I call it "self induced tunneling" as opposed to "team induced tunneling" and "killer induced tunneling". Just enjoy the salt it adds tast to your victory when you play it right.
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Mostly I would like to see underrepresented Perks get a buff.
I do not wish for any nerfs because yes, while some Perks get annoying after some time (I am looking at you, Dead Hard and Iron Will!) i do not believe them to be unfair or too strong. They just do not have enough competition. Also first on my list would be the "free perks" so that as much people as possible can enjoy them.
As such buff: No One Left Behind, Calm Spirit, Left Behind, No Mither, Beast of Prey, Shadowborn, Spies from the Shadows, Territorial Imperative and so on...
And most of all: Please a buff for "Monstrous Shrine"...
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2268890#Comment_2268890
DBD isn’t a stealth game anymore or else it wouldn’t have changed from Hide and Seek to cat and mouse after doctor released
playing Stealthfully will only get you so far, and on most maps you can’t play stealthy, you will need to get into a chase eventually
Still playing stealthy can get you far. Just look at the number of Claudetts with prestige skin. On some maps you can not find them and they can stay hidden for a whole match.
Stealth is still a relevant factor in the game that people just do not appreciate enough. Yes you will have to get into a chase eventually, but then longer the Killer takes to get into the chase then more time is wasted. And as we all know time is generators.
I agree that not every Killer should be ran the same way and that you need to add stealth to your kit. Just because there is one Killer that negates stealth does not mean it is not viable. Killers play differently so you need to counter them differently. The problem is that Sprit just does not allow you to do that.
You can not even know when to stealth around against a Spirit because Stridor is a thing, her Terror Radius is small and she could just phase past you. Even against nurse you hear a Terror Radius and a warning audio telling you to hide. As such stealth can be counterplay but counterplay that does not work against Spirit.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2269483#Comment_2269483
Ruin would work much better in that build than Thana
True. I do not argue that Ruin + Pop would get the job done better or that Ruin alone would work quiet well and for the most part better than Thana. This is personal preference to not run the same perks every time.
I merely wanted to use this as an example of Surge and Thana working together. Also I wanted to highlight that Surge also takes away the need to kick the generator by instantly damaging it. Hitting multiple generators seems to be a likely occurence with Surge as such I would guess my avarage value is 2 generators that get hit.
My values would add up to something like 2 generators hit by surge while 2 survivors are injured. This should be about 2* 7.1 second ~ 14 seconds. Add to that the value of at least 1 kick to the generator and you get ~16 seconds worth of slowdown. If you calculate that even 1 Pop would add more value here.
I guess Ruin would do this job even better when you interrupt enough survivors which should be an easy job with Wraith.
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@GoshJosh said:
Switched it out for Prove Thyself after the nerf. Killers wanna tunnel and camp without consequence, then those gens will be flying!
Thats the spirit. Also Prove Thyself is not nearly as situational as some people think. Most of the time when enough people are alive then you will sit at the final generator with at least one other person.
Survivors need to punish camping and tunneling. Yes, run DS + Unbreakable if you like it and you want to, but think about this option too.
Also there are enough times when a Killer does not tunnle but your team throws you under the bus. Unhooking without BT, not taking the aggro from the Killer or - my favourite - unhooked people with BT who desperatly want to eat a hit from the Killen even thou the Killer goes after the one who is healthy. Do not beg to get chased when you can not take it.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
Thanataphobia is the most overused killer perk, easily. It’s really weak, other than on Nurse, Legion and Plague.
I do not think so. I got good use of this perk on my Wraith by combinding Thana, Surge and Sloppy.
As a stealth Killer people need to heal or risk getting caught out of position. If they try to heal they get Sloppy, if they do not I get Thana and if I catch them I get Surge to top it off, making the most of my Thana value. It is not optimal but it is a nice way to get slowdown while playing to Wraiths power and not using Ruin or Pop.
Also you should consider that Surge saves you the time it would take to kick the generator and can regress more than one generator. Kicking costs the Killer 2 seconds and Surge takes that time away making it rewarding beyond the immediate regression of the Generator.
@Sonzaishinai: Thanks for the work, I like number crunching and you basicly gave me some sweets.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2269109#Comment_2269109
The change actually punishes survivors for playing the game. It's useless now. Can you tell my why it wouldn't be fair if DS deactivated if the killer downed or hooked someone else? That would literally be the killer not tunneling, but that's not what the devs did. Playing killer has never been easier. They're making the game miserable for solo survivors, so I hope all the killer mains have fun going up against nothing but swfs when they drive us all away.
I'd love to not have to run DS but so many killers tunnel, I didn't have a choice if I wanted a CHANCE to stay in the game. One counter to DS? Don't tunnel. Slugging was valid. Sometimes, you're not going to win.
Killers cannot seem to handle that yep, in some circumstances, it sucked for them to tunnel instead of for survivors to be tunneled out of a game.
Okay but can you ensure me that survivors are not going to abuse this by just bodyblocking the killer even thou they should run away in order to not get tunneled? You know like survivors do with another "anti-tunneling perk" called Borrow Time where it is almost certain that if somebody uses it and you as a Killer want to go after the one who unhooked that the "victim" is trying to bodyblock you?
You sound like you just want old DS back where you had a "get-out-of-misplay-free"-card after every unhook and where you could play as fearless as you wanted because the Killer could not do anything to you who ran Unbreakable + DS.
I understand your idea but you do not offter a solution for the possible abuse that would happen this just comes off as somebody who actualy wants to abuse DS all over again.
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Sole Survivor - Tokens remain the same. But at 1 your struggle time decreases by 10/20/30%, at 2 your repair speed increases by 8/12/16 % and at 3 you gain 150% movement speed when the hatch opens for 4/5/6 seconds.
Boil Over - Wiggle effect remains, struggle time decreases by 10/15/20%, stun on successful escape is increased by 1 second.
Buckle Up - Remains but also gives the downed survivor +15/20/25% increased recovery when you can see their aura.
Breakdown - Remains same but also unlocks sabotage action. After sabotaging you see the Killers aura.
Premonition - Just lower the cooldown. When looking straight at the Killer all survivors within 5/10/15 meters from you also get an audio warning.
This Is Not Happening - Complete rework: While injured you hear the killers heartbeat from 8 meters more and get +10/12/15% bonus action speed to healing, repairing and sabotaging whie within the killers heartbeat.
Up The Ante - Just tell me what luck does and what kind of things are affected by it except for self unhooking. This whole luck system is so dubious that I do not want to talk about this perk.
Wake Up! - First aura part removed, second part can stay. Once the exit gates are opened you can see the Killers aura for 30/40/50 seconds. The end game collapse is no longer slowed down by any means.
Solidarity - Remove the Med Kit part, reduce the healing received.
Red Herring - Fine in my opinion. Maybe a bit cooldown reduction.
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Spirit does not need a nerf.
She needs a way to get more gameplay out of the survivor without loosing her identity.
I think most people do not even have a problem with her being a sound based Killer and her phasing. But without any tell that she is phasing and if she is coming she can suck the fun out of many people.
Spirit is not even OP like Nurse or "very strong" like Blight. She only has the ability to end chases quickly without and way to counter her.
Take Ghostface as an example. Yes, he can insta-down you too. But you get an audio warning when you get marked and you can counter that by looking behind you, breaking line of sight and running away. If you spot him and he misplays than you can knock him out of his stealth and then he is a M1 knife man for 30 seconds. True, dedicated servers can screw you over but they can screw the Ghostface too. His general design is fine.
So over all you have counterplay, you have interaction and you still have the normal chase. There is a point where you can think "I should have done X better". This point does not exist for a Spirit.
Spirit allows for no counterplay or interaction. You do not think "Well, I should have looked behind me while doing that gen / healing.". She just appears and hits you.
That is why I advocate for more sound based play for Spirit: Let the survivor hear her foodsteps while she is moving quickly while phasing. Then quicker than louder she is. Just as an example. Oh and rework her add-ons. Seriously, Freddy got sound based add-ones but Spirit did not? Why?
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@SleepyWillo said:
I think we can all agree that old DS needed a change.
The only thing is that the new DS doesnt do much to actually punish tunneling (which is what the perk is supposed to do).
Would it be a good idea to slightly extend the stun timer for it? Maybe slow the timer when someone is downed?
I mean, the survivor literally cant do anything in order to keep new DS active. And punishing actual tunneling is likely something most people should be okay with, right?
While I do not care about the duration of the stun if we just slightly increase it, I am strongly against reverting the change in any way. If you have time to do a gen then you are not being tunnled.
In my opinion you can also make it that DS acivates each time you get off the hook. This is fine too.
But going back to the old DS in any way would be bad. That perk let survivors get way to cocky and in your face just because they got unhooked. They would bodyblock you and taunt you without them fearing any form of punishment if they ran DS and Unbreakable.
At least when sombody is trying to bodyblock with Borrow Time even thou you go after the one who unhooked you can wait it out and punish them after that. But with old DS it was pretty much a "bully the killer all you like"-card without any drawbacks.
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Yes, as long as it is about a Killer I like or play.
Hillbilly was great, Spirit was not to bad and I realy wish for a Ghostface archive.Also observer and entity specifics are quiet nice.
I like it that they leave you to puzzle some story by comparing add-ons, archives and perk desciptions. This gives me a feeling of doing detectives work. Also resenctly they started adding some details to maps that give hints.
So overall, yes, I do archives and I like archives.
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@MadLordJack said:
Other than Instasaw, Billy was only complained about by players that weren't good. He was, and still is, one of the absolute best killers to go against. Plenty of counterplay, very strong, all-round fun unless you're new. And, to cap it all, he was pretty damn hard to learn.
However, the dedicated servers did an absolute number in him and combined with the change in PoV to make backrevs luck-based, the Overheat is punishing and unecessary, his add-ons are awful, and they also messed with his sensitivity a bit so that everyone had to relearn curving... I think it was a couple of months before?
This is pretty much my opinion too.
Billy is tons of fun from the design, Air-Billy is redicoulus and I like nothing more than reving that saw and shooting to the sky over a hill. His mobility is nice and he sure as hell is a good killer to play when you get started with the game: Useful perks, mobility, insta-down and even a good backstory.
However the Add-Ons are laughable and do little to nothing for him. Most times I just throw in some to use them up and I do not feel any difference. Also the hitbox on his chainsaw feels weird at times: Sometimes you bump into things that are not in your way and get stunnes and sometimes you miss a survivor that was right in front of you. This could be due to servers but it just does not feel good.
I do not want insta-saw Billy. I just want a few interesting add-ons and more consistent hits / misses.
Still Billy was my first Killer and I like him. He is a good piece of work but needs a bit of love.
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I feel like I should be at green rank. Pretty much in the middle, nothing special. I can perfome quiet well but it is nothing exceptional and I see a huge difference to many/some Red Ranks I am forced to compete with. There are so many small things I have yet to master.
I think that if they do not make a MMR they should increase the Rank reset. Make it 10 ranks and not just one color and make rank 20 and 19 only for new players. That way people like me who play more occasionaly climb slower than people who are at the top like Scott, Tru3, Otz and whoever. Hell, they made the Bloodweb a grind like no other but Ranks just fly by when you play a bit of a Killer, get some chases going and kill one or two people per trial who were the weakest link in their team.
Like, do you think I should get ranked up from 9 to 8 when I only kill the unfortunate Rank 18, while the Rank 10, Rank 9 and Rank 4 all escape me? Sure thing they did not have an easy match, I got a few hooks. But I surely did not perfome better than the Rank 10 or 9, I only did the expected by killing the Rank 19. As suchI should stay at my Rank and not get rewared.
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This game is still a horror game. Dark places are not "horror" or "frightning", bright places can too have the right atmosphere. The level of immersion is based on the player and you can still get the "horror" feeling if you just let it happen.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258914#Comment_2258914
The fact that such a skilled and experienced player's wasn't getting it 100% of the time means its not really much of a tell. This is DbD, not a fighting game, and just as with her footsteps this is an unintended effect that isn't really that useful for the majority of players who aren't even able to go into private trials to study a particular killers animations for hours on end.
A borderline unnoticeable and easily missable glitch in a characters animation cycle that takes a hell of a lot of practice to pick out of the normal animations isn't a tell and it isn't counterplay.
I never suggested that there was "counterplay" here, that was not the question nor was it the point I made. Do not play strawman with me just to "win" an argument.
The question was if there is a way to tell if she is phasing. There is a way to tell that and there is a prove about this.
I never said that this way something that is easy to do or pracical. But that was not the question. I also never said that this is enough to make the phasing mechanic fun. In fact I have made a suggestion today how to give Spirit a better tell and better counterplay because I do not want a Killer I enjoy to be unfun to play against.
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A better understandable reveal mechanic for Ghostface. Sometimes I get revealed from a survivor behind a wall and sometimes they look straight at me without me crouching and I do not get revealed. This is not fine for both sides, I feel robbed off sometimes and it is the same for the survivor.
Also a fix to the "lean" mechnic for Ghostface. Most times you have to wait a second or so if you want to lean off something. It feels just odd and makes some plays harder than they should be. I often want to stalk somebody who runs away from me and can not do so because even thou I am stand at the wall I can not lean to get some stalking off.
And while I am at it: A better indicator to tell from where I am being revealed. Currently I am forced to take a more or less educated guess from where the survivor is looking at me.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2259096#Comment_2259096
I think a balanced game would be fun. Why do you assume they're not related?
They can be, do not get me wrong please.
Something can be balanced and it can be fun. However fun is subjective. For some people balance is fun and others have fun with wonky things. As an example: The most fun with LoL for me was URF. URF is not very balanced but it is tons of fun for me. The normal game was more balanced but less fun for me.
As such depending on how you do it you can kill fun for the sake of balance and the other way around. The question is how to finde that balance. For a symetric game like LoL it is easier that for an asymetric game like DbD. MMR is a thing that requires much work to empathise both aspects. And I merely wanted to point that out.
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@JediWithASniper said:
Seriously. If they don’t gather data, they can’t determine if the system will ever work and what needs changing. This game is far more complicated to matchmake than an FPS like COD or whatever. Anyone with half a brain knows that balancing this game is a massively difficult problem. 2 days of data won’t hurt anyone. Just saying.
And here you are just talking about balancing the game. The fact is that it needs to be fun too. Nobody wants to play a balanced but unfun game after all.
As such this MMR test is a bit more complicated than people make it out.
Maybe they should not have told us that is was a "test" but should have said this is the "Entity on Madness"-event, coming to your DbD server once a year to give you an new and fresh experience and a chance to get your adept archivements.
I so far had a mixed bag of matches but I always found a match without a huge waiting time. Sometimes I would get better survivors, sometimes I would get stomped by Red Ranks. But at least now it is a mixed bag. Before this I rarely got a lobby with one or two survivors below my level. Only some above my level. Even while climbing up after the rank roulette made me rank 18.
So, I enjoy this test. Think of it as an event.
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@MadLordJack said:
Not really. If you're right on top of her you can see her shards glow, and I mean right on top. On the other side of a pallet isn't close enough.
There's also the whole animation thing, but to be perfectly honest it's completely bullshit. It's so easy to miss that 10,000 hour survivor mains didn't even know her "animation reset" was a thing.
Well, Scott and Xeno tested it and as far as I know Scott is very critical about everyone who claims to say something about Spirit. However Scott confirmed that Xeno was able to tell his phases "almost every time.".
Just because people with more than 10.000 hours did not know about that trick means nothing. People in LoL discovered crazy moves on Lee Sin years after his release that Lee Sin mains did never know about. Just because you do a thing daily does not mean that you are perfect or that there are no tricks and secrets for you anymore...need to be open minded here.
The question is if this is something we, the regular player, can do or if it is just something that players like Xeno can do.
But even if we can not do it that does not mean that there is no indication. I can not do certain calculations in my head but that does not mean that they do not exist, right?
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@aroell said:
No killer against a decent swf will win, this is the shittiest argument I have heard. His uncloaking lunge needs to go and his collision when cloaked also needs to go so he can’t body lock windows. This killer is supposed to be beginner friendly, not S tier
But a regular Wraith that makes some mistakes will also not automaticly win against a decent lobby. If people just let Wraith uncloak on their back without reacting, if they just wait for him to bing his bong while they continue that generator as they could with old Wraith, then they deserve to get hit. Ignoring the Killer should get you punished.
If we are not to assume a lobby is 4 decent survivors with a discord, then we should not assume that every Wraith is Otz, Scott or whoever that has more than 6.000 hours of playtime too. Otherwise this would be double standart.
A beginner friendly character can be S-Tier too. This depends on skill floor and skill ceiling.
And in the end Wraith is just an M1 killer who has a fast lunge after a decent indicator that he is now going to lunge. Wraith literaly rings a bell to tell you "Hey buddy, here comes my lunging attack!". So there is enough counterplay to him in that regard.
We could talk about some of his addons. But overall he is now finaly a fun to play as and against Killer and not "Oh, its Wraith. I guess we get an easy win.".
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Wraith is not to strong in my opinion.
I started playing him a bit more after his buff and a suggestion that he might be fun for me and he is fine now. I do not feel useless anymore I get my attacks off and I can finaly play a good hit and run game with him. When I go against a Wraith I feel like I improved a lot thanks to this, I now know where he can get a hit and how to avoid it. I can have fun with this killer.
And this is the "problem" in my opinion and the reason why you are getting such good results with Wraith: Most people do not play him and they are used to the pre-buff Wraith. They still think he is just a weak M1 killer without anything special, they do not know his lunge distance and how far he can travel with his speed bost. Also they are not used to his add-ons (Ghost).
As such many players are not prepared for the new Wraith and still try to counter him like only Wraith. Give people some time and they will adjust and learn (hopefuly).
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@CoalTower said:
The general consensus about Spirit is that she has no counterplay. However, some people disagree with that, and this post is about proving them wrong, while also making a simple suggestion that won't change the level of power that she has, while simultaneously providing counterplay.
One of the things that people tend to use as a "counter" for her in arguments and discussions are sound mindgames with slow vaults. This actually could be valid counterplay if they changed the thing that I'm about to talk about. There is one reason why this is not counterplay. You make noise while slow vaulting. A Spirit with a good headset will hear you and catch you regardless of if you do this or not.
Another thing is crouching. If you didn't know, crouching lowers your characters moans by a little bit, making you a bit harder to track. However, if you just crouch, your sound radius is smaller, giving her enough time to find you withing her basekit 5 seconds of phasing. Most people know this though, and therefore they crouch inconsistently to make the sound more confusing to track. This works better, but a good Spirit will just stop phasing the second you get quieter, and if she can hear you while crouching, she'll likely be close enough to hit you with her post phase lunge.
People always use IW as a "counter" when arguing about this. Perks are not counterplay.
Some people think that walking to not leave scratch marks will throw her off. It won't. She doesn't track by those, and a good way to prove this is to look at her strongest addon, Mother Daughter Ring.
A lot of people think that this is a counter, which is astonishing imo. Drop every pallet to avoid getting injured, forcing her to guess. The people who suggest this seem to not realize that the number of pallets on a map a finite. You can't afford to waste one every 11 seconds, nor should you be able to. This only works in a competitive setting where the game will be over in 5 minutes at most. This simply isn't possible in normal DBD. You can't do this in solo queue at all, and you have to have one of the most competent and efficient SWFs in the game to do this. And this isn't a viable way to counter her either, because it's a 50/50. If she guesses correctly even once on the first chase, your entire team dies because all of the pallets are gone. It is honestly better to just hold W than to do this.
I'm not going into the standing still mindgame, because it's not that hard to counter. Just wait for maybe 5 seconds, then vault towards her. This will work 9 times out of 10.
Now that I've covered why she has no counterplay, let's talk about how to add counterplay without getting her.
My suggestion for a change is to simply bring back the sound bug where you could hear her breathing in phasewalk. No, this won't be directional. This allows players who pay attention to somewhat know what she's doing, and that allows them to take the appropriate counter, creating counterplay.
I think that this is the perfect way to add counterplay without reducing her power, but I also want to see other suggestions, so if you don't mind, please comment your ideas.
I like playing Spirit as I like her fantasy as a ghost with a grude and the whole "track the survivor by audio" thing. This is something unique that makes are very enjoyable for me. It is just a different feeling from my usual M1 Killer and I do not want to loose that at any cost.
However I understand the complains about Spirit. You get little to no indicator in a chase and while the element of suprice when I interrupt someone who was never in a chase with me is part of her fantasy, I think that should not be the case once somebody is in a chase.
As such, yes, I think giving her an audio that allows you to track her while you are in her Terror Radius / in a chase would be fine.
My idea would be a bit different however: I would make it so that the survivor can see grass and particles more while also hearing her footsteps. Than fast she moves than louder more clearly you get to hear her. She should have a way to "walk" slower to lower her volumn however for some sneaking. Never completly quiet but quiet enough that you can not hear clearly while doing loud actions (exit gates, generators, healing, totems).
Make her all about audio for both sides.
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@AlohaSnacBar said:
Imagine being new and going against otz XD. I feel for them.
You know...
I would actualy like getting a game like this for once and seeing just how far appart my level is from somebody like Otz. I would only complain if this would be the only kind of match I would be getting that evening.
I had these lobbies way befor this MMR test. I took a break some time ago and came back deranked and rusty. I think most of my matches had survivors way above my rank, sometimes 2-3 red ranks per lobby. Matches against players on the same rank as me happened rarely, most times I would play against higher ranks and it only got worse as my rank increased. I can count the number of lobbies where 2-3 survivors had a lower rank than me on one hand.
As such I am not sure if this is only because of the "new MMR" system. Maybe MMR makes it worse at first. But this here is no new experience for me. At best I finaly get a more mixed bag and this is fine.
But I will rather take a few more "unbalanced" games than no at all. I have limited time at the evening and want to play my few matches a day than to wait an eternity for a "fair" lobby.
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I had a pretty mixed bag.
One some Killers I got good games. Yes there were rainbow ranks but the skill of everybody was matching just fine. One other Killers I got survivors who are much, much better than me, constantly and they just stomped me and on other Killers I only get new survivors and I stomp them with 5 gens left.
Now this could be because I played some of those Killers more than others. I have the most hours in Ghostface and can play him quiet fine and I only rescently started playing Myers as an example. Rank has nothing to do with skill as far as I can tell. There were Rank 1s who Dead Harded into a wall and Rank 15 who I needed to leave as otherwise I would have risked a 5 minute chase.
I will continue playing while the test lasts. It is a pretty mixed bag and funny to see who is "on my level".
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Sure, but then let us make it so that Borrow Time does not work if you throw yourself at the Killer after the unhook and stop survivors from running to the hook while Bubba is already reving his chainsaw right behind them. I swear nearly every time I play Bubba for a few matches I get this: I hook someone, I go away because BBQ showed me a new target, I initiate a new chase...and then the survivor I chase runs into the direction of the one I hooked and tries to unhook the poor guy while I am reving my chainsaw right behind him. Oh and of course they then call me camper and tunnler.
So even if you play the game in a non-camping way you get the survivor how throws his teammate under the Bubba chainsaw just like that. Not to mention those guys unhooking in my face without BT, a few seconds after I hooked.
But I am all in for a Deliverance buff. Buff Babysitter (haste for the unhooked maybe) and Second Wind too by the way. I am all in for good anti-tunneling perks and ways to take the heat for the one I just rescued. Straight up facecamping should only be a good choice on a few selected occasions where the survivors provoke it. It should not be a regular occurence.
But please do not bring in another mechanic like Desecive Strike that can be abused by the survivor. The one going for the unhook must take the heat from the Killer and the unhooked one should go away and not throw himself at the Killer just to trigger Borrow Time.
Because this is just another dumb suvivor thing: Somebody goes for the unhook with BT, the rescuer goes hiding and the unhooked one runs into my face with BT. I hit him, he sprints off to a deadzone or a unsafe loop and expects me not to follow him. And if you dare to hunt down that one, then you are a tunnler.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2250270#Comment_2250270
All these arguments are extremely easy to dismantle, which I will gladly do.
- Bodyblocking the killer is extremely risky for survivors to do, and will fail almost every time fail in solo queue. I’m not talking about SWF, because it has nothing to do w me as I only play duo occasionally. There are MANY perks to counter altruism wrt bodyblocking. Namely starstruck, infection, agitation, etc. The only perk for survivors to help with facecamping is deliverance which is useless if you get chased first, and requires you to use DS too or you’ll get put right back on the hook. Same with flashlight saves, but they’re even easier to deal with than bodyblocking. A killer has to play poorly to be blinded when picking up, which is fair balance.
- I’m fully aware that Bubba is at strongest when not standing still, I’m not arguing that facecamping is too strong, only that it’s extremely unfun for the survivor and they will very likely depip when it isn’t their fault.
- I am currently a survivor main, but until recently was a killer main. I played Bubba quite a lot, and he absolutely is extremely easy to play. I don’t mind this, as this ease of use doesn’t translate to 4ks every game like Spirit. Nowhere have I ever argued Bubba is too strong.
- What you describe in your example is not facecamping, and not at all related to what I am discussing. My complaints are exclusively with standing still at the hook.
- Yes, I am fine with punishing Bubba’s more for facecamping without it being bannable as long as it’s effective. I also think deliverance should give you BT, but that’s another discussion.
Funny enough, the idea that Deliverance should give you Borrow Time would be fine for me too. I like that Perk and it should be more viable. Rewards good play, broken status is a harsh downside and I like Adam as a character.
Bodyblocking is risky? Not is is not. The Killer is at its weakest when carrying a survivor. They move slower, they can not in full control their movement and there is the good old Deadhard (and no, I am not advocating for nerfing Deadhard, it is a fine perk as it is). A coordinated bodyblock is not risky at all as the Killer is stunned when it is successful or you can run away when you notice that it is not going to work / is dropping the person. Arguing with Perks will only throw this debate of as it would lead to me pointing to suvivor perks / tools for bodyblocking.
Sure it requires a good perception of where the next hook is and how far you can go here. But mostly the time when the Killer carries the survivor is you time to act.
I was also not talking about a single flashlight. I was talking about chain lightburn. Flashlight saves are fine and yes, they punish a player for not sluging when they should. However you as a survivor main should know that some Flashlights especialy with add-ons can literaly blind a Killer from behind and you can do it again and again.
I did not say that you consider Bubba OP. Do not play strawman with me. I quoted you on Bubba having no skill, which is not true. I merly pointed out that there is more to his power then standing still and that you are basicly arguing against a bad player doing bad things with a otherwise fine killer.
Bubba as a killer is being abused here and we should not fan the flames against him. His design is fine, allows for counterplay and he presents an easy yet effective and enjoyable killer. To be honest I have more experience with facecamping Huntresses than Bubbas.
We agree with the "standing still in front of the hook" thing thou. It is bad and should not be this present in the game. The thing is that the countermesure needs to be effective. Maybe we need a combination of punishment for the bad play and reward for the "good" play.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
I’ll never understand how facecamping (not proxy camping) with Bubba isn’t taking the game hostage. It really shouldn’t be allowed, because 99% of Bubba players commit to one person for the entire game, then facecamp them after being run around. The game is punishing survivors for doing well in a chase.
Ah yes, the usual Bubba complain.
Tell then, oh survivor, is it not holding the game hostage to constantly bodyblock the Killer on the way to the hook, to chain lightburn them and to not open the exit gates and to get away?
Basment camping Bubba is a bad Bubba. That chainsaw is an extremly versatile and useful ability and to use it only for camping shows that you did not understand the Killer. It is like only using Spirits ability for map mobility. You complain about a Killer not using his ability effective.
"... he takes no skill to play ..."
Doubt. Bubba is not easy to play against a good survivor. Also his ability has some mechanics you need to learn. He is "easy" as in "easy to learn" but he is not "no skill", he takes medium effort to master. Stop the nonsense just because you do not like a Killer
.
Also suvivors are to blame themselv sometimes. As Bubba it is quiet frequently that I chase someone and after I missed a chainsaw (2 charges) and lower it (you know, the little animation), they run to the hook. When I reach them I ram myself into the hook to trigger a trantrum and even thou they see me reving they go for the unhook. Consider: They led me here. I was chasing them and they came to their hooked teammate and try to unhook him. And then they blame the Bubba for "camping" and "tunneling".
Standing still in front of the hook is a debatable thing. I think it is useless as even when I am forced to camp (all gates open, one guy on the hook, open map, no hill or basement) I constantly move and look around to spot the survivors. And standing still with Insidious is just no fun for me. As I said, that is a bad Bubba.
We can talk about a point deduction for doing so: Less chaser and less sacrifice points for standing still within a radius to the hook. That way bad Bubbas would not rank up and the game would tell them that their way of playing is just trash.
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Prove Thyself is not a problem.
If you interrupt them on that Gen then you just got 2 people off and in action for one. Its pretty good. Imagin Bubba, T3 Myers or Ghostface in such a situation. If more people are on the same get it just gets worse.
The problem comes with kicking the Gen thou. Imagin the Gen is about to pop and you decide to kick it. It takes a bit of your time and then you go for a chase. All a survivor has to do now is to touch the Gen for a millisecond and you kick is worthless. They can even do it righ in you face and Deadhard to the Gen.
A kick should have more value in such a situation as the Killer dedicates far more time to it than a survivor needs to undo the kick. This is why I like Ruin: You do not need to think about kicking the Gen. Yes the slow down is great but the payoff for interrupting two people on a Gen is much greater.
Again Prove Thyself is not bad. In fact it encourages bad play for the survivors most of the time. I do not fear prove thyself. I fear all 4 survivors split up working on different gens right at the start of the match.