I fear wraith has become too powerful.
Now before you get your panties in a twist, I play wraith and consider him number two in my top three killers. He's extremely good now, especially for an M1 killer but... It feels almost unfair to play as or against him now. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy he was buffed and his movement speed while cloaked is ######### fantastic. The things is, I haven't won against or lost a game as wraith since his buff. It's shocking how powerful he is now and I fear nerfs in the future. The kinds that will make him worse than his pre-buffed form.
Comments
I feel the bait in this but i'ma take it anyways..
Wraith is still weak my guy, sorry to say..
No matter what. Put a Wraith against a Decent / Good enough Swf and he'll lose 100%,
Just need to learn to loop better against a Wraith imo..
I played plenty of games as Demo before their buffs and got consistent 3ks and 4ks. Guess they're OP now.
Just because you do well in a lot of games as a certain killer doesn't make them OP. The average killer (not player) can do the same as you did.
Not bait. Genuinely serious. Maybe you've had better games against him than me but so far, I haven't won once.
"Just need to learn to loop better against a Wraith imo.."
Exactly my opinion. I'm still practicing and learning how to loop properly, and most of the time I get caught, I feel it was a mistake from me.
He's stronger than before, but I still don't consider him OP.
Nah he's definitely not that good. He's a lot better but it may just take some better planning to get around his speed. At the end of the day he's still an M1 killer with no special looping attributes.
He can't hit through walls or pallets like Pyramid Head, Deathslinger, and Huntress. He can't teleport like Hag and he can't slow survivors down like Freddy. He's just fast like Blight but is still an M1 killer.
I'm average at looping and still make plenty of mistakes.
The Major Thing to note about wraith. Connecting Loops makes him weak and unable to stop it properly without forcing himself to bodyblock you, Which you can take advantage of.
You won't block a window by Vaulting it over and over while he's cloaked. Won't count as a chase.
It's somewhat easier if i could get some footage against wraith hol up.
I think Wraith is really overrated tbh. He's still the same bing bong man we all know and love, just 24% faster.
He's a bit better at shutting down loops but he isn't as powerful as people give him credit for. I still consider him a low C-tier killer which is honestly really generous tbh.
Agree I main survivor but also play killer a little as my level 50 wraith I played him pre-buff he was bad and add On dependant but not useless but now all I gotta do is stick on my usual perks and I can 4k just by using my huge speed and lunge increase.
That being said I hate going up against a wraith for that very reason he can 4k just by cloaking and then uncloaking on your ass.
I have to learn how to connect loop. Sometimes I feel I have a tunnel vision and all I notice is that one pallet or that one window.
But I guess it's a matter of time and practice!
Imho. we both have differences in where he should be on a tier list. But mainly. I consider wraith Between High C tier and Low B tier.. that's what i'd said bout em,
That big change is his giant lunge. Which is not to say he's OP, but he's much more dangerous if you don't have enough stuff to work with.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1051639027 This vod isn't probably the best wraith gameplay i've had since well... SBM in a nutshell.
But to Address alot. The survivors made Plenty of mistakes which i took advantage of as Wraith. While using the Addon that breaks pallets / gens / search lockers faster and uncloaks me after i break a gen / pallet
Note that the Survivors weren't the best but i still give them credit for trying...
But if i had to tell you what NOT to do. NEVER EVER Pallet Camp vs Wraith. He will win those 99.5% of the time,
ALWAYS connect loops and look around for other useful loops. Wraith will be struggling heavily against one Decent Runner,
and NEVER. EVER. Think it's safe until you see him walk away. OR see another survivor to break off to,
I'll try to get more wraith footage tomorrow if i can,
Yeah I get ya.
Don't get me wrong. He got some good buffs and whatnot. But that doesn't help him much Against a decent team
...Or Pre-throwing Bastards...
His playstyle has become boring and dumb, I think his extra lunge coming out of stealth needs to be toned down just a bit. It should absolutely be higher than it was before, just not this high.
Wraith is not to strong in my opinion.
I started playing him a bit more after his buff and a suggestion that he might be fun for me and he is fine now. I do not feel useless anymore I get my attacks off and I can finaly play a good hit and run game with him. When I go against a Wraith I feel like I improved a lot thanks to this, I now know where he can get a hit and how to avoid it. I can have fun with this killer.
And this is the "problem" in my opinion and the reason why you are getting such good results with Wraith: Most people do not play him and they are used to the pre-buff Wraith. They still think he is just a weak M1 killer without anything special, they do not know his lunge distance and how far he can travel with his speed bost. Also they are not used to his add-ons (Ghost).
As such many players are not prepared for the new Wraith and still try to counter him like only Wraith. Give people some time and they will adjust and learn (hopefuly).
That's the thing I never understood. People say they main one said and play the other only occasionally.
Why is it strange when they accumulate in-game knowledge on their main side and when they play the other get matched against newbies and potatoes and take those matches as an indicator that something might be unbalanced.
Example you play 1k hours 95% only survivor and decide to play killer for the first time after several hundred hours. They are rank 1 on survivor but rank 20 as killer, while they know how survivor think and loop. Then they get matched against new or yellow ranked players which inherently don't have the knowledge and really to win against killer of their own skill. It should be obvious that the switching player will win 90-100% of their games due to the knowledge gap relating to basics.
This should never be an argument for balance on any side.
Bold of you to assume I'm not that skilled rank wise my killer rank is lower green and beginning purple so I think I know what I'm talking about I used to play 50/50 but chose survivor as my favourite side.
If you say so...
Did I say that I meant this explicitly to your case? My post was more a comment on this kind of behaviour on these forums itself.
The people never give satisfying information for those claims and from what you for example gave, my assumption might be correct or not.
Another point is arguing about queue times without giving information about time of day, server region or platform plus Crossplay on or off.
Well your point was aimed at me because you responded to me and also rank is not a sure way to measure skill that's why they implemented MMR to better match people of skill.
Me quoting you was simply to show an example and not put my statement blank into the room. (Then I simply could've made a new thread which would probably get ignored anyway)
And the fact that rank is a useless indicator for skill and more or purely for time investment into this game is not new for me. I am still thinking about if it is worth to take time and make visual schematics of how dbds ranking system is utter garbage at red rank compared to other games using matchmaking and ranking. Dbds red rank equals to, for example, league of legends silver/gold rank AND EVERYTHING ABOVE mashed together.
Are you serious...wraith a m1 killer...Jesus..
I don't think he's OP by any stretch of the imagination but a hit and run slowdown stacked Wraith can pretty effortlessly beat a solo team.
No killer against a decent swf will win, this is the shittiest argument I have heard. His uncloaking lunge needs to go and his collision when cloaked also needs to go so he can’t body lock windows. This killer is supposed to be beginner friendly, not S tier
Well, his only viable way to damage survivors is by bonking them. He doesn't have an instant down and his power is invisibility.
He’s not OP, but his buff was lazy as hell, just improving his numbers to ridiculous degree without adding a single reason to stay uncloaked. This has caused him to become one of the most boring killers to go against.
Ah yes, this screenshot of your one win against wraith destroys my whole post. It's not like you're playing on PC with teammates who aren't absolute dogshit. Yes, I see how I'm wrong now.
He's not OP. At least not Nurse & Spirit level OP.
He's a solid A tier right now. A- to be exact. He can stomp players who are bad loopers or don't look around their surroundings.
And pls, enuff with the SWF argument. That's like 4% of the entire survivor player base.
We don't need to put SWF as the main source of balancing.
Its hit and run.
He always gad strong add-ons but a weak basekit. Now that the basekit has been buffed, he's fine at base and inevitably add-ons push him over the top.
Wraith powerful ? Are tou a comedian or something ?
Well, it seems everyone else has had better games against him than me.
But sure, Wraith OP!
I played wraith a lot after the update but i played always without addons so i cant say something about that.
With wraith i get many matches where i win for free bc survivor give me free hits. But my highest winstreak is still only 9. Some matches i lose bc i mess up but they are still a lot harder compared to my average matches. Against good survivor you suddenly need to exhaust their pallet ressources bc they reach the loops more often. (Comms, spine chill, sprintboost, game sense, safer gens etc) You dont get easy downs bc they heal near pallets and know how to loop a wraith. His lunge and bodyblocking are not the strongest chase tools if the survivor knows where you are. But against good survivor you need a down eventually. Keeping all injured will not stop the gens forever.
But i know that there are still things to learn for me. So if someone shows me a wraith dominating against good survivor i will change my view.
But a regular Wraith that makes some mistakes will also not automaticly win against a decent lobby. If people just let Wraith uncloak on their back without reacting, if they just wait for him to bing his bong while they continue that generator as they could with old Wraith, then they deserve to get hit. Ignoring the Killer should get you punished.
If we are not to assume a lobby is 4 decent survivors with a discord, then we should not assume that every Wraith is Otz, Scott or whoever that has more than 6.000 hours of playtime too. Otherwise this would be double standart.
A beginner friendly character can be S-Tier too. This depends on skill floor and skill ceiling.
And in the end Wraith is just an M1 killer who has a fast lunge after a decent indicator that he is now going to lunge. Wraith literaly rings a bell to tell you "Hey buddy, here comes my lunging attack!". So there is enough counterplay to him in that regard.
We could talk about some of his addons. But overall he is now finaly a fun to play as and against Killer and not "Oh, its Wraith. I guess we get an easy win.".
^^
Yeah, I have gotten that feeling recently. I think it's because of the super lunge, but at the same time the super lunge adds a lot to his skill cap so I don't think it should be removed.
What I'd do is increase the true invisibility radius to 28m rather than 20m, because with his speed 20m is nothing, and then SLIGHTLY decrease his cloaked movement speed. (only slightlg)
CJ: Ah [BAD WORD], here we go again.
I don’t know who told you that wraith is fun to play against but you have been lied to. The thing is that with his fast lunge he is 100% more likely to hit through a pallet, you can’t mindgame him because he will either bodyblock the pallet or window and then you are screwed. You are just standing there and can’t do anything, no idea to run away because you barely get distance anymore.
Simple solution to not get hit through pallets? Don't be greedy against a wraith that is uncloaking.Also why should you be guaranteed to get away if he uncloaks next to you?
Because a braindead wraith shouldn’t be able to hit me, cloak and then get the easiest hit. He required skill before but now he doesn’t.
You serious?
But apparently braindead survivors should have free escape? That's a weird double standard.
When did I say that? A braindead survivor will die if a wraith uncloaks next to them even without the insane lunge.
bait
You took my post completely wrong.