Gandor
Gandor
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485209#Comment_3485209
yeah DS needs a buff, buts its not useless like everyone says. Its still at least B tier.
It's not useless. It kinda a little works against M1 killers and it's actually good to reset bleeding status. B tier is generous, but so be it. Low B-tier
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485148#Comment_3485148
thats a very specific scenario, and by that logic on hit burst is useless everywhere in dbd.
But on hit burst is better then DS. It gives both speed and short stun. DS gives just short stun. I am absolutely not surprised nobody ever respects DS.
The only real usage of DS is to remove bleeding status, so that you actually can use DH even if hit during basekit BT (so in practice 2 perks for single second chance in case of tunneling killer).
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485058#Comment_3485058
i'd say its at its best being hard tunneled. They cant wait out your BT, and are forced to give you an on hit burst. any non hypermobile killer will waste so much time catching up to you. I can only think of 3 killers that would count as hypermobile though. Its good design because it makes chasing you take the same time as chasing the unhooker since you both have two health states.And if the unhooker took a protection hit for you, then you get to keep OTR and chasing the unhooker is significantly easier.
only buff I can think of to improve consistency would be to have the iron will effect kick in 10s in. That way the killer doesnt know you have it until regular basekit BTs duration is up.
Right. Like with my pinhead. STBFL, after hit instant chain. 2nd hit in like 5s...
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484928#Comment_3484928
Rather immunity why not display hex (light effect) after that duration instead. Looks like dull first 20 sec
I would be perfectly ok with that solution too
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485019#Comment_3485019
But now there’s zero mind games for the survivor, because the buffed directional audio doesn’t get affected by sound occlusion, so it’s always 100% crystal clear. This isn’t “some information”. It’s perfect information of which direction Spirit is, at all times when she is phasing near the survivor.
The only thing Spirit has now is brute force through her phasing speed, which isn’t mind games at all.
a, it's perfect only if you have perfect headset. b, there are still mindgames even if survivors have perfect headset. If you go headstrong for survivor and don't double back, that's on you. You can do same kind of mindgames as every M1 killer, but better, because survivors won't see you, you are much quicker, you can start to phase a little later to see their direction or you can actually only sometimes go at them at the shortest possible distance.
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4s and disable stun animation so it's in fact really 4s instead of 2.8s (or 1.8s right now).
@nars said:
you lost any credibility after calling OTR bad
What would you call a perk that has just 1 task to do and that thing is to protect survivor when being tunneled - but the perk does not do basically anything, if you get tunneled hard?
Trying to be very kind - I would call it bad design. No matter the effect - if it does not work upon being hard tunneled AND IT being anti-tunnel perk, then I don't care how good it is when being just soft tunneled. The perk is just bad. It basically asks killer to a, hard tunnel b, being abused by taking up to 3 hits. So no. Calling it bad perk is 100% deserved.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484926#Comment_3484926
What exactly do you think mindgames are supposed to be? If there’s zero guessing at all, then how is it supposed to be a mindgame?
Mind games should be based on something. It wasn't that way with old spirit. 0 information = just pure guess. No mindgame is involved. Now it's different. You have speed and you have some information. Spirit can't always "just charge at you", because you threaten her with pallet stun.
Depending on spirit's audio quality, you could even try to a, not go to a pallet at all fooling the killer (if she can't hear you with perfect headset) b, slow-vaulting a window being on the other side (but vaulting makes very unique sound that is discernable with good headset) c, going the opposite direction then I started before killer sees you (works only if killer does not have any headset as steps are VERY discernible). Killer can on the other hand go one direction (make survivor hear the sound on one side a throwing pallet) but double-backing for a hit, guess where the survivor will go and cutting him before he gets there, try to hear exact position and follow him exactly, try to outrun him.
That's MUCH MORE mindgame, then just HA! You don't know where I am, but I know where you are and I am 2x your speed so GGEZ!
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@nodforkiss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484934#Comment_3484934
whats your mmr? let me guess. very low?
actually it's top mmr (which BTW is not hard considering how low the top is defined). Applies to both killer and survivor. Then again - I don't feel the need to ask for removal of exhaustion perks (or on say making gens take 60s on the other side)....
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Gideon is definitely killer sided. It's tiny, has bad gen spawn (3gen very possible), strong inner-map syndrome (you can't find gens), hard to orient. Minimal number of windows. The map is instawin on legion/blight/wesker with certain build. It's super strong for bubba, ghostface and certain meyers, wraith with certain build/addons. Still very strong for huntress, pyramidhead, deathslinger, trickster with certain addon. There are only a few killers that outright struggle there (namely standard Freddy). Saying it is survivor sided just because it has a lot of pallets that need to be broken (which BTW means they can't be reused or played around) does NOT make the map survivor sided.
But I am no longer surprised. Because "there's just midwitch and maybe saloon". Ignore wretched shop, wrecker's yard, azarov's, both RPD's. And ignore maps that are almost balanced but still favor killer more like sanctum of wrath, pale rose, Father's campberll's, Thomson's.
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@nodforkiss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484864#Comment_3484864
m1 killers needs to be 4.8m at least, or make survivors 3.8m
skill issue on your part
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484300#Comment_3484300
NOED is late game and you can definetly ignore it and just leave if needed.
Crowd control highly depends on map, but sure it will be decent with buff.
Blood favor is countered by pallet predop, it usually does anything only if you don't know about it. It can work on fast killers.
I talked about Devour hope, that's only one where you are going to die if you ignore it.
All other hex perks is possible to ignore and finish game with them active.
Technically you can ignore dhope as well. There are killer players that will hard-guard the totem - in this specific case it's better to just finish gens. But usually, you just have to cleanse the totem. Same as all the other mentioned (NOED included - you rarely have everyone be able to leave before you can down someone with noed - thanks to 5% speed bonus). Blood favor sure needs you to burn thru pallets - if you are not on the game or maybe shattered square, then you won't have enough pallets to ignore it.
That being said. I will repeat myself that hexes should get immunity for first 20s of match to be cleansable. At least give enough time that killer can move to them or have at least some chance to use them.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484288#Comment_3484288
BHVR admitted that Spirit's directional audio is in the game to take away mind games from Spirit, and that's what it does in many loops.
Mindgames? No it wasn't mindgames. It was pure guess on survivor's side and mindgame on killer's side. So all the benefits (speed and information - because she heart survivor in phasing + scratchmarks) on killer while none on survivor. Thankfully, they nerfed her
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484218#Comment_3484218
Most of the hex perks are so devastating? That's true basically only for Devour Hope.
Rest can be ignored and it's usually not worth looking for it. Luckily spawns are trash, so you will find it sooner or later while chasing or working on gen.
blood favor, new crowd control, dhope, noed and 3rd seal (though only in soloQ) are hexes you shouldn't really ignore. FtD depends on other perks, plaything depends on killer, huntress and ruin def need buffs.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484240#Comment_3484240
THIS! of course I was exaggerating, but I played her a lot the last two days and basically got no foot on the ground, because survivors have crystal clear info about everything I do. BTW, @GannTM told me a very long time ago that the Mother-Daughter-ring/dried cherry blossom combo was strong, but ultimately weakens your spirit game, because you never really learn to play her right, so I NEVER equip these two.
Yeah, I guess that she can still be very strong, but all strong killer abilities are gated behind clunky and cumbersome mechanics, while survivors have so often all the info. I find this one of the more frustrating aspects of the game. When you play a normal shooter or any other action oriented game, be careful, you might be blown away by how snappy the controls are :P
How does having information help, when spirit moves at 176% speed basekit? What does having perfect information help against nurse when she can blink at you no matter where you are or what kind of loop you use? What does it matter that you have even wallhacks against C33+alch ring blight when he moves at 230% basekit + you move at only 97% and pallets hardly matter? All the info by far does not mean you win. It just gives a chance at the game
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Spirit is still #3 killer in the game. MDR nerf just means, that she won't be #1 in capable hands without any restrictions (yes, w best addons she rivaled nurse and blight). Saying she is bad now just.... Means skill issue.
She is one of a few killers, that can be very well played even without any addons (but her addons are still very good unlike say Freddy or Pyramidhead)
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482616#Comment_3482616
Lmao, ok. First off it's all theoretical, plus I'm still adjusting things so I'm not set on anything, there's no need to quit the game.
25% is 0.66 seconds, making a sabo take 2.33s. That's still faster than Saboteur, which is about to be buffed to 2.7s. Its more than adequate, faster than killer attack cooldown, and lightens the impact of sabosquads a little without making sabo any less effective.
But maybe 33% would be better, that would make it 2 seconds.
The numbers lie. It's supposed to be 2.5s, but in fact both are 3s (but speed addons make toolbox quicker). Those 0.66s is enough for you to only do sabotage when you are already at the hook someone has picked up. It's absolutely game changing. The 0.2s buff that saboteur got this upcoming patch is already huge and the viability of the perk went up by insane margin.
Sabotages are super sensitive on timing. It's similar to vault. Like resilience is supposed to be 9% faster vault for an action that takes 0.5/0.9s (mid vs fast vault) - and it still is noticable. Thats 0.045/0.081s. And it's still a perk that people bring for this entire purpose (plus genrush as a cherry-on-top). Now compare it to 0.66s...
And of course I am touchy at the subject. It's the main reason I enjoy the game. This nerf would make 1/2 of the builds I play no longer viable (and sabo toolbox absolutely not worth taking).
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482145#Comment_3482145
So this has actually inspired me to theorycraft the rework for it.
If we give Toolboxes a similar effect as the new BNP, and have a portion of those repairs instead be subtracted from the generators maximum charges, this gives toolboxes a strong protective value against regression perks. This not only serves as an indirect nerf for regression perks (meaning you don't have to overcomplicate things by nerfing those perks at the same time), but also allows for the gutting of increased repair speeds on toolboxes, as detailed below:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JZODKEBL4NXB/toolboxrework.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O0JZ2T5LB1JP/toolboxreaddons.png
So while charges have been significantly increased, repair speeds have been virtually removed entirely, except for Engineer's (10% instead of 100%) and of course the add ons, which have been been reduced.
Mechanically, this would work by having half of your charges repair the generator normally, and the other half subtracting from the maximum required. A regular Toolbox with 30 charges and a subtraction rate of 50%, means that after 30 seconds of repairs (at normal repair speed unless effected by perks) you will have protected 15 charges in total. If that generator is then interrupted and regressed to "zero", 15 charges will remain, or it will only require 75 charges to repair to full.
Moreover, this I think would make the Engineer's Toolbox the 'best' toolbox, instead of Commodious, as it should be for a Very Rare item. As the Engineer's will have the 10% repair speed bonus with a protective power of 20 charges after 18 seconds of repairs, while the Commodious has more charges, but takes more time for a protective power of 25 charges after 50 seconds.
All in all, this virtually eliminates toolbox use for genrushing, and makes it a counter to regression instead, which make them more effective at 3 gen scenarios, or battles of attrition.
Caveats: due to the increased charges, Sabotage depletion rate will need to be increased, I would say from -2c/s to -3c/s, this will make them slightly more sustainable for sabotage instead of repairs. I wouldn't want to double it because the charges haven't been entirely doubled, and that would make it a nerf for sabotage as well. Additionally, the skill check chance would have to be reduced from x5 back to maybe x2 again, as the duration of toolbox use will dramatically increase, the Commodious will go from being depleted in 21 seconds, to 50 seconds.
You plan to also decrease base-time sabotage speed? Or why did you nerf alexis by freaking 25%? That's basically making the toolbox as useless for sabotaging, as any other toolbox. IDK but if this goes thru, you can remove the whole mechanics at this point and leave just saboteur perk.
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@Meepy13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482274#Comment_3482274
It is so unbelievably not a guaranteed uncleanseable it is so possible to counter victor even without the ability to crouch and completely nullify his existence
It's not. 14s guaranteed. That's 64,4m distance. That already presumes you are next to it - Victor will give you advanced warning. If you super-duper want to control it, you can swap to Chalotte the moment you hear it. That's like extra 3s at minimum. 78,2m distance where you can safely chase. More then enough to cover 4-5 gens next to your devour. Possibly whole map if you pick something smaller (Like lery's).
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@Meepy13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482241#Comment_3482241
You camp 1 thing at a time and you loose victor for chases it's not unconditional and why does it take 1000 hours for you to learn how to walk up to him and wait to get hit
You need to have game sense of following ANOTHER survivor that you somehow realized have already found the devour AND you somehow know, that it's being camped by Victor. That's quite an ask of survivors. While for killer side it's take devour, leave Victor in front of devour - bonus points, don't chase too far away from your devour.
Devour if you can guarantee it being not cleansable is much stronger then whole Victor. Even though Victor is strong.
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@Meepy13 said:
I see people in this thread that'll make them useless but I get sabo saves/ lose a hook to a sabo saves all the time? It won't make them useless at all
The problem is, that sabo saves require all of a, skill b, luck c, good map. If you didn't get even 1 of those 3 things, your sabo does not really matter (at best, killer have longer walking distance).
Say you get a skill of correctly picking hook the killer will go for and are able to hide enough, you got luck that the downed survivor wasn't downed next to a hook and that the hook you want to sabo is not visible from everywhere. You can still be on saloon making your sabotage absolutely useless, because killer can still carry a survivor to yet another hook - because it's that close.
But sure - from time to time you will get all 3 of those. But getting flash save is comparably MUCH easier already + has less counters in (on the other side more reliable) perks (basically just franklins and lightborn - while sabo can be countered by iron, agi, mad grit, starstruck, franklins - to get sabo save, you most of the time have to take a hit as well so that killer won't be able to get to that next hook)
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Twins should probably get better CD's. That's the biggest thing why people don't like them. It feels tedious to wait after every single action for so long (I am not talking about Victor's on-miss possibility to be crushed, but about looong swapping between both of them. About impossibility to self-kill/recall victor if mispositioned. About needing to walk for ages before I can release Victor after hooking instead of AI moving inactive Charlotte/Victor for me to ensure no camping while I already use the other person).
I am totally against Victor getting free, unconditional and uncounterable ability to camp everything for the cost of 1 healthstate on survivor's side and just positioning cost on killer's side. Not to mention that it requires soloQ to be coordinated beyond the ability of even 1000hrs survivor. Huge requirements/game sense on survivor's side for virtually no requirements on killer's side. Totally unacceptable.
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BHVR pls pls pls. Do something good to counter tunneling.
The reason - OP's post. It's absurdly unhealthy. Killer that still has 0 game sense, but is boosted, because tunnel. So now "you can't play without tunnel". That's super unhealthy
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End game turned off is IMO fair change. But 3s stun with 1s animation? Go back to 5s or at minimum disable whole DS animation and stagger
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There's 2s span where basekit BT is no more and at the same time unhook is still not safe. This is what comp players actually target (to specifically deny deliverance). It does not have purpose for most of us, but it does have purpose for some of the players.
If anything, safe unhook time should be slightly longer (15s or maybe even 20s), but there shouldn't be any more pip-destruction for unsafe unhooks (as it's basically more likely to not be fault of unhooker, but of camping killer instead. It makes no sense if unhooker giving fighting chance to camped survivor should be punished for the attempt)
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Yes. It was most definitely killer sided. But I enjoyed the event for both sides. It was temporary and it was new - so it was cool.
TBF I was a bit annoyed at last day of event as survivor, but overall it being limited - I very much enjoyed it
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That would put pressure on devs to fix all the horrible no mithers and distressings and all the other perks with more negatives then positives.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480408#Comment_3480408
you were one of the player that said MFT was not going to be a meta perk. I knew from very start that this perk would be top 5-10 survivor perk as soon as it was announced. I think your missing what makes this perk so strong in comparison to those other perks. MFT gives 3% haste to the survivor which amount to 20% extra catch-up. A lot of m1 killers have little to no gameplay at pallet loops because pallet loops are too safe. this means they're forced to break pallets. by breaking pallets the survivor can make distance to next loop. this perk essentially buffs your ability to chain pallet loops by 20%. your example on health-state is also relevant. it takes 20% longer for killer to catch-up to health-states so hold-w+healing is more valuable as well. The issue with Lithe and SB is that they lack control for user when they get speed. they're pure hold-w perks where as MFT and Nickolas cage Dramaturgy give you distance exactly where you need it. it allows survivor player to manage and control their distance which adds huge skill expression for survivor looping.
Yes. I expected it to not be used at all. I still consider the perk inferior to sprint/lithe, because moving to loopable location is IMO still more valuable. Guess I was wrong considering perception of other people.
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Exactly. I value lithe/sprint/balanced more then MfT, because it allows me to get to loopable spot. Like I probably shouldn't care if they nerf MfT - because same as DH, I don't really like the perk and never used either of them after I tried them out a few times.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480430#Comment_3480430
judging from our conversation with slinger, you have the opinion that every skill-shot is luck based. at that point, life itself is luck based. there is skill to being more towards being more consistent but I am not going argue this any further. I am not interested in another forum ban.
DS is not luck based. DS is skill based as well. He's just super tough for casual players. There are so many small holes that can be shot thru - making his skill ceiling insane.
Meaning your assumption is wrong
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480410#Comment_3480410
that's like saying try dodging 8 hatchets. add-on exist to improve the killer....
The difference is, that each hatchet is skill shot. It's single shot that has it's CD after. If huntress had 56 hatchets, it would be still more fun to play against. The basic idea is - there's a skill in dodging huntress. There's not really any skill in dodging trickster.
So again - even if huntress is undeniably stronger, she is MUCH more fun to go against
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480312#Comment_3480312
Also, Trickster is more dangerous than Slinger, while Slinger can easily secure injures, Trickster can outright obliterate you if you get caught at a bad spot, and Trickster can snowball pretty badly as well if survivors arent careful.
all killer will get a hit when your in a deadzone. arguably instant down killers punish you way more for being in deadzone then trickster does. for example billy has instant down on his chainsaw and it leads to direct down with no speed boost or any second chances in regards to backrev chainsaws. All the killers can snowball effectively when their opponent plays poorly.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480323#Comment_3480323
trickster being a good camper does not excuse him from having poor performing chase. Being unfun face is another excuse for killer to be bad. getting 1 down with trickster requires 12/44 knives to hit. It should not be that hard to dodge 33 knives. I think survivor players just don't want to learn to attempt to sidestep projectiles and rather just Line of sight cheese+rush generators to victory. It is like why try outplay the killer aim with your movement when an auto-pilot solution exists.
As I have said many times in the past, he is dps-oriented killer that relies on damaging health-states over time but his movement speed reduction when holding knives suggests him being a character that timely throws knives at specific times. It does not make much sense for him. The other killers do not spend much time in their throwing mode because they're burst damage characters and they rely on timing their throwing mode to land hits. Trickster's power design forces him to stay in throwing mode for virtually entire chase otherwise he cannot use his power correctly but being stuck at 96% m/s is nurse-level movement speed is awful. It is way too easy to line of sight a 96% m/s moving killer. this forces trickster to volley few knifes, get line of sight, put down his knives, walk at 110% m/s, raise his knives again, shoot more knives, rince and repeat until he gets down. that gameplay loop he has is non-sense for him. that is why he is not very good. It is way too time consuming chases for him to be an effective chasing killer.
Yes. Try to outplay 56 knives that are being shot semi-randomly (by design) AND are being shot rapidly. Sure makes sense. Totally skill dependent and absolutely not about luck...
The killer is just bad. Both performance-wise and fun-wise
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480314#Comment_3480314
Oh right, because you don't get distance after getting injured, right? That never happens...
And you always drop a chase after injuring survivor. Only hit&run on any killer.
Funny is all your counterplay works only if survivor screws up. Yeah, perk is not good if survivor is bad. Who would have thought....
survivor gets 16m distance on you on hit? Because for everyone else it's 1.8s speed burst of 165% speed + additional 100% speed for 0.9s. But killer can move during his CD - so the distance is still a little below 14m. To down a person after this is not such a big investment. Yes. It buys in this case some extra time. It's still less then sprint or lithe
Also - it's like with nurse. If you are predictable, then nurse can screw up and blink wrongly. But if you do correct things, it's much more likely nurse will actually screw up. The roles are just swapped for other killers.
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Trickster is weak in chase. But he's the 2nd best camper in whole game. His potential to multiple injures is rivaled only by bubba - sometimes, he's even stronger. Also as it stands - he's very much unfun to go against (and taking this perspective - it's good he's bad, because unlike skull merchant he does not plague games that much - so even killer players don't enjoy to take him that much).
He would benefit from full rework
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480273#Comment_3480273
Perk makes difference in milliseconds (exactly 0) only if you insta down, or you are stealth killer and surprised survivor.
But at that point I can say exactly same thing about Lithe. It's not unique for MFT.
Or you successfully mind game survivor. Or survivor gets stuck. Or it's interior and he runs at you. Or .... There are a lot of possible reasons. Lithe can allow you to leave the loop altogether for one with better visibility... Also your 16m example is not a norm too. If survivor sees me from such a distance and is able to run directly away from me - I am probably not going to chase him no matter if he has the perk or not.
@Adaez said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480244#Comment_3480244
Lol at the comparison, you do understand made for this is not an exhaustion perk right?
For all intends and purposes IT IS. You can't effectively use it in conjunction with any other exhaustion perk, but maybe deadhard and background player. Technically you can, but technically you can use both lithe and balanced landing at the same time - lo and behold, nobody is using them together because of same anti-synergy.
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@Frogsplosion said:
Well I'm glad somebody said it, but you do know saying anything in support of killers on this forum is an open invitation to be insulted and gaslit nonstop right?
The reality is killers are second class citizens, and bhvr balances the game as if that were the case. I suspect it's going to be a long time before any killer besides blight, nurse or Wesker is even remotely playable in this boring binary genrush meta.
if killers are 2nd class, then soloQ is 3rd class. Sure 4man SWF is very strong especially with strongest kit they could bring. But right now I would say C33+alch ring blight is even stronger (thanks to BNP nerf) - so for 2nd class citizens - it works only on part of killer list.
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480251#Comment_3480251
So if you take killer that is counter to MFT, you don't care about MFT. Who would have thought.
OP is talking about M1 killers and you bring Bubba...
Let's say there is distance of 10 meters between survivor and killer. That's not that much, right? Worst case scenario, you are Legion. You can't do anything to catch up fast.
Without MFT it will take you 16 seconds to catch up.
With MFT it would be 20 seconds.
That's why everyone is saying 20% more distance.
Then just take into account pallets and connecting loops.
using chainsaw is not always possible, using chainsaw only on healthy person is not always the best play, I mentioned also pinhead or other M1 killers (legion being best example). As I already said - I have hard time noticing the difference. Also as I said - the perk SOMETIMES makes literally difference a few milliseconds - but other times sure it can give you those 4s to catch up. It's a perk - and exhaustion one. It should be strong because of it.
@DrKetchup said:
Half of M2 killers are also dead, Huntress, Trickster and Deathslinger can't catch an MFT that is looping around tall, round rocks. Technically they can catch up but it will take 30-40 seconds, are you willing to go 'round a rock for 40 seconds? Perk designers have no clue how this game is played.
trickster is weak overall. He needs buffs regardless of this perk. But huntress and slinger should NOT try to catch survivors. They have a shooting capability for a reason. Sure - DS can be hard, because his skill ceiling is absurdly high compared to his "normal" gameplay. But that does not mean any of those 2 struggle against the perk if played right
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480244#Comment_3480244
That's not true but ok...
If you think it's milliseconds, you are really bad at math.
It's not worse than Lithe, or Sprint Burst. It's completely different perk.
Those perks are burst of movement speed. MFT is snowball that scales with skill of survivor.
MFT also has good synergies with Iron Will, Resilience, Dead hard.
Iron Will is still a good perk, but it wasn't viable for some time, because of requirement not being exhausted. Well, it works with MFT really good.
Sometimes it literally is milliseconds. If I surprise someone with bubba and chain them, or surprise them with pinhead or any other M1 killer because they don't know from what direction to expect me (or run at me), it's literally a few milliseconds - it's true if the chase is shorter then a few seconds. Also even if it's not a few milliseconds - I genuinely have hard time to tell apart survivors that run it and survivors that don't (with exception to endurance).
Compared to sprint burst - where they would actually get away and start to loop me even if I surprised them.
Also I would argue that IW and probably also DH are ONLY good if paired with MfT. Otherwise they are bad (but not trash-tier) perks.
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But the incentives actually mitigate this effect. They just don't do it enough. Your thread seems like you are complaining about incentives altogether. Instead the (partial) fix would be to make them even stronger.
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If devs are very survivor sided, it means only 1 thing. You play survivor too little. The weakest role in whole game right now is soloQ. It's even worse then weak M1 killers.
Also - not counting endurance part, huge number of killers can't even tell those 3% are in game. That's how influential the perk is. Even though there are a lot of complaints, it's just way weaker then lithe/sprint that get you totally out of deadzone compared to MfT that potentially prolongs the chase by a few milliseconds.
And I do play mainly no-mobility killers if you feel the need to ask.
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Yes. Obsession perks on killer's side are very influential. And it's not just STBFL (current meta), but also niche stuff - like rancor (especially paired with game afoot or at least nemesis), play with your food (for some killers absolutely bonkers strong, on others meh one). There are also those worse perks, that still have something to offer - like dark devotion (has potential for a few interesting builds), remember me (end game build after next patch), maybe even grim embrace (but devs should buff this one first).
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480159#Comment_3480159
Thing is, it would only favor high mobility killers (like blight, nurse) with the auto regression in place, Regular killers would not gain as much value from it.
What if a compromise was made instead, like if the totem didn't get cleansed before X amount of time has passed, red skillchecks would appear.
Or tweaked the original effects to make it less punishing for new players.
But hard skillchecks are exactly it - the toughest part for beginner survivors. OC is already a noob stomper. Unnerving presence is thrash tier anywhere but in low MMR (where it's actually very good). Huntress lullaby is useless against anyone but beginners AND streamers.
If quicker regression is not a way to go, then you would need entirely new effect. Which means, you want new hex perk. I am totally not opposed to it, but I can't think of good effect. Not at this moment at least.
While we are at it - I think it would make sense to buff all the hexes basekit. Make them immune to cleansing first 20s of the trial (to at least mitigate a little horrible hex spawns). It would help with hexes that need some protection and do nothing for some stronger hexes like plaything, pentimento and NOED.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480138#Comment_3480138
I'll revise my original comment then. All in all though, I'd say 45% sabo speed on a green Alex, but with a stronger Hacksaw to compensate for that. That should make it better overall
- Tweaked the values of Alex' Toolbox to +45% sabotage speed
- Tweaked the value of Hacksaw to +30%
- Added a note about event toolboxes
In total, with my idea of a tweaked sabo box and add-ons, you can obtain +85% sabo speed (up from +80% currently), or +75% with 40 charges (up from +70% with 36 charges today). It should make saboing a tad better.
That would be cool. Yes. Even those 5% are very meaningful buff - not to mention rarity buff
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@Vespergaea said:
Seems like the best place to throw another hat in the ring.
I'm sure anyone reading this has heard it a hundred times, so I'll keep it short.
Affects weak killers more than strong ones, since weak killers don't have the means to counter it (wesker dashes, nurse blinks, blight dashes, etc). Many of the killers that do still get dumped on pretty bad, since it's easier to break line of sight against Huntress, Deathslinger, and Trickster. Haven't seen a single Doctor, or Pig, or Legion, or Knight, or Sadako since this thing was added, and it's easy to see why (not that I was seeing much of them before, but still).
As far as survival rates go... I mean, of course people with Made For This are gonna be more likely to die. They wanna get chased to get value, and because they know they'll last longer than their teammates who don't have it. The thing is, when it takes 45 extra seconds to down someone, everyone else is able to do gens and cleanse totems and open gates. Looking at whole team survival rates might provide a more accurate picture of how good this thing is. Or at least an additional perspective to form a fuller picture.
My suggestions, from someone who plays about 60/40 killer/survivor, would be to remove the endurance (put it on a different perk in the future, maybe, since it's a fun idea), and add some tell that you're chasing someone who's 3% faster. I have a couple hundred hours, and I'm not nearly experienced enough to notice a 3% difference in the moment, especially with the speed burst that precedes it. Louder grunts of pain, maybe, or even some whooshy motion lines if we're feeling a little goofy. Granted, these suggestions come from a single player who really doesn't understand this game's ins and outs, so, grain of salt and all that.
That's all. I just miss seeing Ghostface, and Clown, and the other killers who are hiding while the slightly faster Gabriels are out to play.
It's absolutely not uncommon to not even notice the perk at all. It's so strong, people can't even tell it's in use. And I am talking about people with couple thousand hours in the game. Not couple hundreds (but TBF, there are people that can see the difference - but they usually have more then 5K hrs).
One thing I do agree with - maybe keep the perk speed boost only if it's so controversial. Remove endurance part and slap it on say no mither (we all know the perk can use a lot of buffs)
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Last second swaps already exists for killers. They can work on your teammates too.
The important thing is, that you would be able to strategize - see someone bringing boil over? You bring breakout. See that someone brought inner healing/overzelous - you don't bring your boon exponential then. That would help soloQ quite a bit
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478470#Comment_3478470
A window (20-30 seconds) of full invulnerability to the unhooked survivor, that gets disabled if they do any conspicous actions. This could incentivice killers to prioritize others over the newly unhooked player, and allow them to be fully healed.
I read in another post that a basekit BBQ and Chili could be a good idea for the killer players. A mini-version that reveals one survivor that has not been hooked yet, outside of a 40 meter radius. It could be a good helping hand for the killers who has trouble finding other survivors.
As for the other side of the coin. I think old Ruin needs to be brought back (in its original red skillcheck form), so that there is a legitimate counter to genrushing as well.
OG ruin was too powerful against beginners and did nothing against experienced players. low mmr killers already have a blast and easy time. I see no reason to bring back perks like OG ruin.
However I agree ruin could use a buff - it makes very little sense right now (but buffing it in more regression - say 150% would do it).
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479339#Comment_3479339
Not really, but a 10% decrease to the base speed bonus should not be that noticeable, plus, with my idea to buff the sabo add-ons instead, as a trade-off for the decrease, should make it just the same as it is today. (Hacksaw + Cutting Wire = +35% sabo speed, with the Alex box, makes it +75% in total).
Also, my suggested Commodious change adds some sabo speed to it (+30% instead of 0%) as well. So, that box can have a true dual purpose.
Anyways, I was more looking into a rebalance of the repair aspect, as well as doing some rarity changes. Not looking to gut saboing in general.
Once again, a 10% reduction is not much in the grand scheme of things.
10% is SUPER NOTICABLE. To give you a perspective. I never ever use any other addons then speed addons when doing sabo. The chance to have successful sabo thanks to extra speed is much more then possibility to try it one extra time. The buff saboteur is getting this patch (7.1.0) is actually HUGE deal to me. 10% is a LOT.
I'd rather alexis was made pink if it was 10% faster, then making it green with 10% slower effect
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@H2H said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460322#Comment_3460322
How would you like it if survivors were able to say remove your perk after 3mins of game, because "you had enough time to use it already"
Yeah, that’d be crazy
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/20VBY9TX7Y9O/img-2091.jpeg
Ah. Perk designed that way.
By the same logic - now let's buff adrenaline, because it has 5s usage and than it's poof. Or let's make DS permanent, because it can go poof as well...
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460306#Comment_3460306
How can a random in this forum knows something about my experience on the game? I will keep my opinion. And everyone one that reads can go and test it. Hooks are RNG based you can't know all the spawns, but you can know spawn areas applying game logic. Most often than not Dead dog Saloon will have a lack of hooks near the water tower making it harder to carry the survivor if a sacrifice was made in that region or the hook is sabotaged.
Your example used a lot of niche situations, like "the killer not seeing a hook".
Hooks are about as random, as tiles on a map or as generator placements. They have predefined spots where they either spawn, or don't. But for each spawn point you have like 5 points in vicinity where at least 1 will be occupied. If you know all spots, you just know 1 of those will be used.
As I play saboteur for many many many hours now, I DO KNOW possible spawn points for hooks. I can reliably say, that your experience of not being able to hook in saloon is 100% fault of you not noticing some hook, or hook being destroyed (breakdown, pre-sabotage), or aura of hook being hidden by boil over user.
And specifically around water tower - you have 3 hook spawns very close by - 1 is touching small hut (the one with totem spawn), 1 is next to the loop with pallet of the water tower itself (there are rocks there and hook can spawn there) and another is directly on the road in front of water tower. There are about 3 other hook spawns that are still within carry distance from these points, but they are at least a little bit further away. Depending on where in the water-tower vicinity did you down a person - you can even make it to a shack's basement.
This is not up to debate. The map is HANDS DOWN most difficult map to sabo in whole game. The ultimate sabotaging boss. Literally THE hardest map because of hook density. ANY and I mean it literally ANY other map is easier to hook in compared to saloon.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Hmm, You do have a point. Though if they did nerf the base value of BNP down to 10% (from 15%) you would still get 20% repair progress if you hit both skillchecks.
I agree on Built to Last combined with the charge and speed add-on being really strong. In my opinion, the repair and sabotage add-ons should swap rarities (both wire spool and the socket swivels being green or purple instead of yellow), as saboing hooks is not as common to see anymore outside of daily challenges or in niche scenarios.
Heck, even the brown add-ons are pretty good on the commodious/event toolboxes. 40 charges at 70% incresed speed.
Here's how I would change toolboxes:
- Engineer's Toolbox: - Fine as it is
- Alex' Toolbox - Dropped the rarity down to Rare (green), decreased base sabotage speed to +40%, removed the +10% repair speed.
- Mechanic's Toolbox - Fine as it is
- Commodious Toolbox - Reduced charges down to 24 (from 32), increased rarity to iridescent (red), increased base repair speed to +60%, and base sabotage speed to +30%
- Toolbox - Fine as it is
- Worn out tools - Increased charges to 24, decreased base repair speed to +35%
Add-on pass:
- Brand New Part - Decreased automatic repair to 10%, and increased the progress from hitting the skillchecks to 7% (up from 5%) - gives a grand total of +24% progress if both skillchecks are hit.
- Wire Spool - Increased rarity to Very Rare (purple), increased charges to 16. Gives a -10% penalty to repair speed.
- Socket Swivels - Increased rarity to Very Rare (purple), decreased repair speed to +25%
- Hacksaw - Increased sabotage speed to +25%
- Spring Clamp - Increased rarity to Rare (green), makes generator repair noises silent instead.
- Grip Wrench - Also increases the time intervals of sparks from generator repairs by 50%
- Protective Gloves - Also prevents a generator from exploding while working on it (consumes the add-on).
- Scraps - Increased rarity to Uncommon (yellow)
- Clean Rag - Increased rarity to Uncommon (yellow), decreased repair speed to +15%
- Instructions - Skill checks triggered has a 20% larger success zone, and grants a +1% to progress from Great skillchecks
- Cutting Wire - Decreased rarity to Common (brown), decreased sabotage speed to +10%
Do you think sabotaging is so OP, that you need to overall nerf sabotage speed by whole 10%? It's huge nerf. I don't like that one bit
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Well. He could use some buff, but he does not REALLY need it. He's quite basic, so he can't be buffed to nurse level.
Also - TP during chase actually works - you just can't do it in plain sight (and locker must be NOT locked). Maybe split haddie's into basekit and slight speedup after TP. But pls nothing too strong
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@Seraphor said:
Love the constant gaslighting from people who cant play killer without camping and tunneling.
Welcome to survivor mains xD
To the context @CamperSluggerVillain u should see most of Seraphor's historical posts. He most definitely is NOT survivor main. Not even close. What I actually think is, that people that don't play both sides shouldn't be taken seriously when talking about balance