Firellius
Firellius
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992567#Comment_3992567
And when people just sit on gens… uwhm… and what then? I’m allowed to down them, slug them again, then go look for the last one? And then they just get up for free and it keeps going? without the other person has a bit to give away his position to get the slugged one can crawl and recover and is back up? then the same again. : down and repeat. down and repeat. Whup whup, amazing design.
and even if it happen that both hide..
I, as killer, am supposed to abandon in a match I’ve already won? Ew. Sense? Logic? Hello?? Anyone home?
I mean.
that situation already exists right now. Not too bad. But as soon as I catch one..
It’s not “if,” it’s the slug that often gives you the last survivor. That’s literally how you secure the cleanup.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992572#Comment_3992572
ehw. .. uhm..… which apparently means waiting for some random RNG black hole to spawn and then dice-rolling who stumbles on it first… in a match I already won? Ye, in what world does that make sense? Sure as hell not in mine :/
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992572#Comment_3992572
Gonna be real: a slug brings way more pressure. A hard tunnel brings way more pressure.
Chasing a fresh unhook? The team feels zero pressure. No one bodyblocks, no one risks a save, everybody just leans back into M1 simulator. They know there’s no threat, so they adapt: less healing, less resetting, more greed. Why bother helping when there’s no chance the killer actually snowballs off a mistake?And that’s the core issue — remove the fear of a hard tunnel and survivors take dumb risks way earlier and way more often. sit injured on gens, swarm first chase with all their toys. If nothing gets punished, everything gets tried.
or on the other side..:
NThe flashy BP enjoyer knows the killer puts themselves at a disadvantage the second they commit to sweating him out. So he goes super aggro on first down — because what’s the downside? If there’s no real snowball threat, he flips the coin every time.
Exactly like in my Nurse clip, page 1: first chase at 5 gens and they’re all there. One with a flashy, one with flashbang, one with sabo. Two running Background Player, three rocking Unbreakable. They only failed to build momentum because it was Nurse. With almost any other killer, that exact situation turns into hard snowball → hard tunnel. That’s just how pressure works.
So yeah, when the killer fresh-hook chases, the team gets a free pass to play super aggressiv. (even more as tey already do) N. When slugging and tunneling actually exist as consequences, the team has to respect chases: rotate, trade smart, reset, think. Otherwise it’s just four people speedrunning greed with training wheels or have THEIR fun time with the killer because they have to fear less consequences
If mistakes don’t carry hard consequences, survivors will gladly make more of them. That’s not “depth,” that’s taking the pressure valve off
Except if an early death still severely disadvantages the survivors, the pressure's still on.
You need to get out of your tunnel-only mindset.
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@jiogo1 said:
Well, I see a lot of people panicking and even outraged about the 9.2.0 preview, and with good reason. I understand that many hate tunneling and the slug, but there are already perks in the game to counteract this. In my opinion, the devs want to make the game easier for the survivor instead of improving bad perks that no one uses.
One of the points is that the killer himself will no longer have information about the prone survivor's location, since he can recover while moving.
One detail: the 90 seconds is only the first time; the next time it drops to 32 seconds, which will put an end to killers like Sadako and Pig.
Also, consider that there will be no more tier C and B killers as they will be beaten roughly.
One detail: the 90 seconds is only the first time; the next time it drops to 32 seconds, which will put an end to killers like Sadako and Pig.
When you want to be outraged but didn't read up or come up with your own ideas, so you just remix other people's arguments but accidentally jumble them up.
Sadako and Pig were mentioned in the kill-pre-6-hooks issue, not the slug issue.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/455162/gen-rushing-vs-tunneling
Except gen speeds are actually a problem
Gen speeds are always a problem, because any match a killer loses, 'the gens went too fast'.
No matter if it's 80 second gens, or 90 or 100 or 200.
If survivors ever win, 'gens too fast'.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992565#Comment_3992565
If tunnelling is still the best answer, then what's the purpose of this patch?
There's added bonuses for not tunnelling and more off-hook protections that combine into this, you know?
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That's not a good rebuttal. Gens tick down, remaining survivors tick down, these are pretty much identical factors.
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@Wampa1 said:
played this game from release,seen some really good updates and some bad.I had given up on this game twice before due to some of the updates and frustration on playing them.I do play mainly killer and am happy with a 2k,play for fun and not a sweat.Never play meta builds actually like playing trapper and occasionally spirit.The new update is if it goes ahead is insane.
They have essentially killed the killer and fuelling swf bully squad survivors,well done devs another kick to killer mains with increasing nerfs to what were previously decent killers.
There counterplay was to give Myers’s a few buffs,whoop de do,who plays him nowadays…..
Never thought I’d see it but not surprised well done devs yet another kick to killers.Before anyone says just uninstall,I already have.Wasted what was previously a good game…
I do play mainly killer and am happy with a 2k,play for fun and not a sweat.
This update is probably just a series of buffs for you, then. What's the problem?
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992423#Comment_3992423
it would make far more sense to wait for some actual numbers.
Wait for numbers”…
But is it really just about numbers? Even if BHVR handed killers some kind of bigger advantage to win matches (which won’t happen, because the so-called buffs killers get are a joke compared to what strong groups squeeze out of their “goodies”)… Even then, the killer gets punished simply for not sitting back and watching a survivor team play ULTRA bad and make awful mistakes, without reacting to it. Survivors get to walk away from situations completely for free, where they absolutely should’ve faced consequences for their garbage playstyle – just because the killer “isn’t supposed to.”So what now, the killer isn’t allowed to actually be a killer? Or to be smart? The logic behind this is insane. Survivors keep getting more tools to play badly without consequence, while killers get punished for reacting smartly. That’s wild. No other PvP game works like this – you don’t give bad players a boost and a bunch of cotton candy while shackling the ones who are actually playing well.
But is it really just about numbers?
Yes, it absolutely is.
If the unique hook bonuses are 50% of current charges in regression, a 10% haste for 90 seconds, and killer instinct for 60 seconds, with the repair speed bonus for a rushed kill being 10%, this would be the most killer-sided update ever.
Conversely, if the killer buffs are negligible and the survivor buff is obscene, it could be survivor-sided.
Hence the question: What repair speed bonus offsets a dead survivor?
The numbers will make or break this thing, entirely.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992441#Comment_3992441
uhm… bside that..
In a 2v1 situation, hatch is about to become a hot topic again once EGC kicks in. Before that, survivors still get their anti-slug, so the real question is: how much ping-pong between the last survivors are we gonna see? Like… how many times do killers have to pick them up, let them stand, smack them back down, let them crawl up again, and REPEAT… and REPEAT… just to stop a free hatch escape?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3557953800
"nurse u doog.. report .. REPORT!" .. xD
We already see in 2v8 how people hate being yo-yo’d back onto the floor over and over until everyone’s finally down long enough to actually secure the hatch denial. It’s gonna be spicy out there after this update, that’s for sure
gonna be wild :D
just to stop a free hatch escape?
Or you could take the hint and contest the hatch the organic way.
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@OmegaXII said:
So Killer has 1 hook, with only 2 gens left. How are you going to comeback from this? You can't kill anyone before 6 hooks, otherwise your opponent gets buff.
So basically the first chase determines the whole match?
You can't kill anyone before 6 hooks, otherwise your opponent gets buff.
What repair speed bonus offsets a dead survivor?
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992334#Comment_3992334
Lol. Just like making NTH unable to be procced is improving survivor's ability to hide by making it so the perk can't procc.
I can do this all day.
Dodging, you mean?
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992287#Comment_3992287
I was gonna post something similar. Not to glaze him too hard, but Pulsar is someone I've always enjoyed seeing post because he's knowledgeable and about as unbiased as one can be with DBD.
(You too btw but I don't know that I'd call you unbiased 😝)
I've got pro-killer takes too, they just never come up because no one talks about any killer issue outside of 'sometimes I lose'.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992311#Comment_3992311
Lol. That's not a basekit buff. That's them deactivating an OP perk so they don't have to actually nerf it. Killers lose the ability to use Nowhere to Hide in the Endgame, too. Is that a survivor buff?
Dude's over here acting like DS deactivating in endgame is the same as rewarding players for losing.
It improves the killer's ability to secure kills by clearing obstacles.
You gonna answer the question or keep treasuring your rage?
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Why do you think so much stuff gets disabled when the exit gates are powered?
Now answer the question.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992290#Comment_3992290
Question: When do killers get basekit buffs for completed generators?
They already do.
Answer mine.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992234#Comment_3992234
Which is exactly what this is. It's taking away the killer's ability to punish survivor mistakes. It's handholding at it's finest. It's saying, "Yeah, the Sable keeps trying to make the same dumb Head On play over and over, but you're not allowed to punish her for it." "Yeah, that Feng missed her flashlight save… AGAIN… but you're not allowed to punish her for it." "Yeah, Renato just keeps going back to the same gen area while he sucks at chase, but you're not allowed to punish him for it." "Yeah, they unhooked in your face, but you're not allowed to punish them for it."
It's taking away the killer's ability to punish survivor mistakes.
Question: What repair speed bonus would offset a dead survivor?
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992275#Comment_3992275
I do understand my "opponent." He's a self proclaimed killer main that has never, not once, sided with killers in literally any balance changes that I have seen during my time here. He has literally taken the survivor side every single time I've seen him post.
That's because you've been around here for 830 posts. Pulsar's been around way longer and used to be much more sympathetic to killers when they had far more pressing issues.
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992209#Comment_3992209
"Why shouldn't it? A dead survivor is a massive advantage for the killer. The repair speed boost alleviates it, but unless it's a 100%+ increase, it won't compensate and the killer will still benefit."
Why should the killer's benefit get alleviated at all, considering they worked for that advantage and outplayed the other side well enough to obtain it (and it's their goal by design, too)? We're not talking about a tunneling killer. We're talking about a killer who simply advanced their objective, the one the game wants them to do.
And why should that benefit get alleviated even when the game is already well in the survivors' favor? This mechanic can easily activate when the killer gets their first kill overall at 2 gens left. It is in no way comparable to your bad faith argument about less pallets around.
"Because we already have it. As survivors do gens, the playfield naturally shrinks."
It does if you hold W and drop down all the pallets right away. Playing survivor well means prioritizing the correct gens and not wasting resources right away. If you spread gens well, the last remaining ones will be far away from each other, which penalizes more than half the roster, besides the usual suspects (Hillbilly, Nurse, Blight etc)
"Resources naturally dwindle."
Pallets dwindle as much as survivors use them. Windows are permanent, and if not you play pallets well you won't have wasted lots of them. And if you played the game well you will still have resources next to the gens that are left to do.
Also, a death is enough of an advantage to make permanent gen repair boost and deactivation of gen regression perks excusable, but when it comes to completed gens, you're saying the equivalent that's good enough is: less pallets around? Pallets that are fully in control of the survivors (they can even put them back up, now they could even recreate them with the new perk) and that cost time for the killer to break? Are we being for real?
"Killers have been inundated with comeback mechanics since the game's inception"
Both sides have. Both sides have plenty of 2nd chance mechanics and perks. Are you really going to argue against that? Let's be for real now.
Why should the killer's benefit get alleviated at all
Because it's been stated time and again that this is, by a country mile, the most effective shortcut to victory. Loads of killers have stated that this is such a colossal powerboost that it's why they tunnel. So if you want to reduce tunnelling, you have to address that.
Keep in mind that the non-tunnelling killer gets bonus regression, haste and intel, which very well might just offset the repair speed bonus anyway.
This mechanic can easily activate when the killer gets their first kill overall at 2 gens left.
Which doesn't change anything about the survivor's death being a huge boon to the killer. One dead with two gens left is perfectly manageable, and a repair speed boost isn't likely to change that.
It does if you hold W and drop down all the pallets right away.
No, it always does. No survivor plays without pallets, and areas with completed gens are places the killer doesn't need to patrol or pressure. The last gens are always slower because they're easier for the killer to consistently pressure. This is especially exemplified with 3-genning, which eventually became such a colossal advantage that it devolved into hour-long lock-outs.
Everyone knows the killer gets more dangerous over the course of the game.
If you spread gens well
Then you have an easier job pressuring in the mid-game, because those center gens need to be done for that.
Pallets dwindle as much as survivors use them. Windows are permanent, and if not you play pallets well you won't have wasted lots of them. And if you played the game well you will still have resources next to the gens that are left to do.
And they will be decreased and then gone. You can't pretend survivors have as much at their disposal late as they do early.
Both sides have plenty of 2nd chance mechanics and perks.
But you did have to toss in an 'and perks' there because you realised survivors got jack in the mechanics department, didn't you?
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991021#Comment_3991021
You're the second person to tell me I'm missing the overall picture without telling me why the picture should look like that.
This change (the 6 hooks thing) is a proposed anti-tunneling mechanic that disproportionately affects multiple cases where tunneling is not involved at all. The Sadako condemn example is one, but every single killer could get caught into this new mechanic without tunneling (very banal and common example: the killer hooks Dwight, Meg, Dwight, Jake and Dwight in this order. No tunneling involved BY DEFINITION, but this "anti-tunneling" mechanic activates anyway).
In this case, since this mechanic affects many cases that go beyond its intentions, why should it go into the game unchanged (either removed or tweaked in a way that it actually only affects tunneling)? You're not the first person to respond by saying "the killer still has an overall advantage" (which, by the way, is not necessarily true - imagine this happens 3 gens in and it's the first death. The killer is at an even bigger disadvantage than they would be in the current live status of the game) but you're actively dodging my question.
And if you do want this mechanic to go unchanged and affect these non-tunneling situations, why? What's the reason it would make the game better? And most importantly, why are you not advocating for the same mechanic that would affect the other side to get into the game at the same time?
A killer that gets no kills before 2 gens are done gets a permanent speed boost or reduced M1 cooldown. This is pretty much the equivalent of this 6 hook change with the roles reversed. The survivors still have an overall advantage - just not as big as before. Would you be fine with it? I think both this killer advantage example I made and the 6 hook change would be bad for the game if implemented, but at least if you advocate to add both at around the same time it's a coherent position that I can get behind. Otherwise it just feels biased, sorry.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991067#Comment_3991067
I never advocated for spamming TVs without hooking, I even said that it's better to hook whenever possible earlier in this thread.
I understand you prefer to use her TVs for mobility, but one great thing about her is the you can in fact use her TVs strategically to quickly add in Condemn stacks (without spamming, which is brainless and in most cases just turns off the TVs while survivors smartly get away from TVs/turn them off). I always hook whenever I get a down, but if a survivor isn't playing their tapes in a smart way (and has some stacks locked in thanks to hooks) if played well by the killer it's really easy to get them out of the game before getting six hooks total. I just don't see why an anti-tunneling mechanic should affect this thing
You're the second person to tell me I'm missing the overall picture without telling me why the picture should look like that.
Why shouldn't it? A dead survivor is a massive advantage for the killer. The repair speed boost alleviates it, but unless it's a 100%+ increase, it won't compensate and the killer will still benefit.
And most importantly, why are you not advocating for the same mechanic that would affect the other side to get into the game at the same time?
Because we already have it. As survivors do gens, the playfield naturally shrinks. Resources naturally dwindle. The pressure on survivors mounts up, and all the guardrails BHVR's been experimenting with come off during EGC.
Killers have been inundated with comeback mechanics since the game's inception. Survivors getting one isn't cause to add yet more to the killer side.
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We had stronger DS, people didn't want that either.
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Survivors getting punished for completing their objective is standard fare. Remember how clearing five gens disables a bunch of stuff?
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992072#Comment_3992072
Also stop downvoting please for the love of god its doing way more harm than good pushing away the actual voice of the OP not me from being seen by Ryan and other mods.
Best thing is to upvote any post about this matter too.
And when and if these changes come in PTB without any explanation or adjustments play survivor and exploit it so it gets changed
And when and if these changes come in PTB without any explanation or adjustments play survivor and exploit it so it gets changed
Please do! Go ahead and suicide on hook and run into the killer, get those killrates spiking!
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991663#Comment_3991663
And killers will still be able to 4k.
I don’t wanna lose the option to punish bad, dumb, super greedy, brazen, miserable survivor plays… without being punished myself and just handing them a free ride. Not happening. Not in my lobbies.
So yup, I’ll just stick to top killers running full meta. Straight tunnel at 5 gens
Anti-tunnel? Cute. Let’s see how far they make it.
Worst case, I’ll just slap on an anti-gen perk on Nurse.
Anti-slug? Heh, let’s run an experiment… how many times can you down the same survivor before they finally bleed out? :D Sounds fun, right?
We’re gonna have sooo much fun, aren’t we?
…aren’t we?
We’re gonna have sooo much fun, aren’t we?
…aren’t we?
No one was having fun playing with you to begin with, so threatening to make the game 'unfun' is a very hollow threat.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991959#Comment_3991959
Lol. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you've NEVER hooked a survivor twice in a row to get someone out of the game at 1 or 2 gens left? I don't believe you.
Yeah, I haven't. I hardly ever needed to, and I don't go into a panicked 'must-win' mode when the going gets tough. It's a lot more fun that way.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991868#Comment_3991868
No way you're not trolling lol. This is literally the most one-sided patch in the history of DBD lol.
Three universal basekit buffs versus conditional nerfs that mostly slightly balance out a situation where the killer's already winning.
I never tunnelled, camped or slugged, this is a HUGE buff to me without having to do anything for it.
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It's 90% killer buffs and 10% killer nerfs, and that 10% is setting them off, big time.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991810#Comment_3991810
So, according to you, survivors would be better off if intentional bodyblocking deactivated anti-tunnel perks, because survivors are making terrible mistakes when they try to weaponize anti-tunnel perks? And therefore, survivors would be better off if BHVR prevented them from trying to weaponize the anti-tunnel perks?
If you could isolate exactly and only intentional bodyblocks, sure.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991415#Comment_3991415
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991446#Comment_3991446
The killer is usually at a net loss, if they hit a survivor multiple times, then leave them slugged on the ground. It also ignores the fact that it's still an overall better action to pick up the survivor and risk the DS.
At least it is at my skill level, and considering my escape rate, I'm figuring I have to be at high MMR.
How is the killer at a net loss from one hit, when the survivor using DS has to not help the team at all until they can make the bodyblock, and then gets slugged? That's a useless survivor that isn't touching a gen, and it can stretch to a full minute.
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@90bubbel said:
this is just objectively false
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991384#Comment_3991384
It's objectively true. Deal with it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991214#Comment_3991214
I really wish that everyone's escape rates were attached to their forums account.
Because I really just don't understand how you can tell everyone that DS is "basically impossible" to weaponize. I really want to know the context.
You can't weaponize DS because it requires the killer to activate it. If they don't press spacebar, you're slugged and the killer comes out ahead.
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@90bubbel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991345#Comment_3991345
3 generator can easily be finished by the times you get 6 hooks and, 2 generators with 2 people with gen repair speed is FAR from impossible to handle,
and the killer gets regression sure but its not free as you need to actually do work for it, and i can guarentee it will have a time limit on it aswell while the survivors get boosts for merely getting caught. Should the survivors get exposed if they complete x amount of generators before the killer has hooked them?
3 generator can easily be finished by the times you get 6 hooks and, 2 generators with 2 people with gen repair speed is FAR from impossible to handle
Normally, there's one survivor in chase, one on hook, one on rescue/reset. If one survivor's dead, it doesn't matter what the repair speed bonus is, because no gen gets done.
and the killer gets regression sure but its not free as you need to actually do work for it
Oh yes, it requires you to do the thing you do anyway already. Labour intensive.
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@90bubbel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991321#Comment_3991321
isnt it funny how fast you went from its only for people tunneling to Itss fine even if the killer isnt tunneling
No, you insist that it's something the killer has to juggle or worry about, when it really isn't. Even in the example you mention, it doesn't come into play. Remove one hook, and you've got an early kill that practically no repair speed can compensate for, and that's only -if- you decide to kill them, which you don't have to do.
This isn't something you have to worry about at all. In that example, you get FIVE instances each of free regression, intel and haste, but the ONE undisclosed repair speed buff is going to spiral your early 1v3 into a disaster? Come on, dude. This is just complaining for the sake of complaining.
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@90bubbel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991317#Comment_3991317
ok remove one hook then, its still not tunneling and im still getting punished. hell what do i do if any of the survivors are doing a stealth build?
If they're doing stealth, they're not doing gens. You're still getting a win handed to you!
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@90bubbel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991109#Comment_3991109
you literally get punished if you bounce between 2-3 different people, you need to hook 3 people twice each before killing anyone to not get punished for it,
for example
lets say that my game has a nea-steve-claudette and david
1-i first down claudette and hook her,''
2- i then find and hook david,
3-i find steve and hook him
4- then i stumble upo n claudette and hook her again,
5-i find nea and hook her-
6-and i find claudettte for a third time and hook her,
now im getting punished for tunneling? how exactly is this fair?
you literally get punished if you bounce between 2-3 different people, you need to hook 3 people twice each before killing anyone to not get punished for it,
Incorrect! It only kicks in if you kill -before- 6th hook. You're talking about killing on the seventh hook, but you can kill on the sixth. You need to have five hookstates between four survivors before you can kill. And along the way, you -will- get bonus regression, movespeed, and intel.
This is super avoidable, and if a survivor throws to try and get the bonus, take the free win because there's no way that repair speed bonus will compensate for the loss of one survivor.
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@Skeleton23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990986#Comment_3990986
Well if you kill urself to the killer before 6 hooks you will give ur team a permanent Repair speed bonus which will stack with Gen Rushing Builds btw to finish the Gens Way Faster.
There are multiple issues that the 6 hook state requirement will make.
Like if someone is AFK. You as the Killer are supposed to now leave them alone before you will be punished for killing them.
Survivors can us the exact same survivor and outfit to confuse the killer into tunneling by mistake.
The list goes on. Always remember Cheaters exist in the game as well. All that will happen is they will probably kill themselves with a cheat to give there Team the buff
Well if you kill urself to the killer before 6 hooks
Then the killer has a 4k. Stop whining about survivors handing you a free win!
Survivors intentionally killing themselves for a repair speed boost means absolutely nothing, because a dead survivor's repair speed is zero. You have one less survivor to pressure, making it easier to keep the others from doing gens, too.
And if they're not doing gens, it doesn't matter if they get 10, 20, 50, or even 100% bonus repair speed, they're still at zero.
Like if someone is AFK. You as the Killer are supposed to now leave them alone before you will be punished for killing them.
This is literally the most avoidable situation! An AFK survivor is no threat. Slap 'em on the hook, go about your day. You already won, stop whining about it being not as completely lopsided as it used to be!
Survivors can us the exact same survivor and outfit to confuse the killer into tunneling by mistake.
This is literally the only salient point and easy to fix.
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@elscardo said:
You can't "use your macro" if things are arbitrarily hidden from you. That's like delaying the notification of a gen being completed by 5-10 seconds. This is info that you should have to know the current state of your trial.
There's nothing arbitrary about it, you're not supposed to know survivors' locations by default. The fact that you did get this information was arbitrary.
It's not 'macro skill' anyway if you're just chasing the unhook notif, that's bot behaviour. Now you have to figure out when someone goes for the save yourself, and that IS macro skill.
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2 and 4: If the 3v1 is still advantageous anyway, why would the killer care? What's it matter that it's less of a slam-dunk if it still makes you win anyway?
5: Well, now you can use your macro instead of free intel from the HUD.
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1. It's total time on ground, it does not reset if the survivor gets up.
2. You can rehook them, there's no penalty for it.
3. You'd be able to tell from the first hit, but it'd be nice if killers also had the 'in chase' indicator on the HUD.
4. Yes, it would block the gens. It'd also give you a dead survivor, which is probably worth a ton more.
5. The only impact this has is not being able to interrupt the unhook or double-back for a tunnel, which are the point. I don't see this as a problem.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990937#Comment_3990937
It's not free when the killer gets a penalizes for hooking the same survivor twice, because they lose the reward for hooking a different survivor.
And survivor already weaponize anti-tunnel perks, and this gives them extra reasons to do so.
Did you expect the killer to also get the non-tunnel reward when they DO tunnel?
Which would you rather: All the non-tunnel rewards, or a survivor just hooks himself for you?
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All of it can be avoided if you just hook survivors and then go for anyone but the person you just hooked. It's not hard.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
So, if you have ever seen me around these forums, you know that I'm the biggest advocate for killer rights, and 9 times out of 10 I have criticism to how the devs have been handholding survivors all the time since Skull Merchant got her first rework. That being said, I actually think that the update the devs announced might actually be good for the game overall, but it will all depend on a single number
Hear me out. The main reason killers tunnel is to get rid of someone as quickly as possible. It is fundamental to do that because otherwise the generators just fly and you can't do anything about it, so with 1 survivor dead efficiency goes down by 25%. With that in mind, there is currently no incentive to hook multiple survivors, this update kinda fixes it by giving killers benefits and tools to juggle between targets.
The first one is BBQ and Chilli basekit, which should you help go for other people immediately after a hook. The second is the removal of collision for unhooked survivors, meaning they can't use their protection offensively. The third, and the most important one is the Pop Goes the Weasel effect, which I will get back to it later.
Sure, the survivor side also got a lot of buffs as well. The first one is the endurance + silent mode + haste. However, that doesn't sound as different from our Off the Record. The thing is, OTR is already a perk that you see ALL THE TIME, so in practice, all that means is that survivors essentially got an extra perk slot. Don't get me wrong, Off the Record is still busted when comparing to everything else, but having it now as killer is vs having it as basekit alongside other killer buffs + no bodyblock I do think that the latter takes the cake.
There is more though, as survivors got another buff. Now they receive a repair speed boost if a survivor dies before the 6th hook, and the killer can no longer regress generators or block them if a survivor dies regardless. The thing is that the meta now may be getting 8 hooks (two on each survivor) before killing them, since it allows you to the most Pop Goes the Weasel uses. And then when the first dies you use your base BBQ to rush and kill all the last survivors. Needless to say, this ideal scenario sounds more healthy for both sides than what we have now, where killers need to tunnel because gen speed is that crazy and gen defence perks have been essentially deleted, but they can't do so because tunnel defense perks are absolutely overtuned.
However, there is a small variable that will decide if this update is good or not, which is the basekit Pop Goes the Weasel regression value. If the regression is something like 30% of the total generator chargers, then we are looking into an excellent update and probably the end of tunneling for good. On the other side, if the value is 10% of current generator or something stupid, then the game will become more unplayable for killer than ever. I think that the minimum should be 20% of total generator charges to compensate for the other killer nerfs.
As it is now, I will wait and see the numbers that come with this update before making the final judgement, but for now, it looks like a really good update.
and the killer can no longer regress generators or block them if a survivor dies regardless.
That's not how I read it. IIRC, this one kick is if the survivor getting killed was also the last one to be hooked.
So if surv A is on death hook, gets pulled off the hook, and then you immediately hunt, down and mori him, it kicks in.
But if surv A is on death hook, you hook survivor B, C, or D, and THEN mori A, it doesn't.
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@kjolnir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990892#Comment_3990892
Miserable? It lasts a couple of minutes and if you're that upset about it, you're free to DC.
I don't see anything here addressing SWFs doing gens too quickly and making the game a miserable waste of time for killers, why is that? Why do survs need their hands held even more than it is already?You get extra haste, gen regression and intel, for free. Did you read the patch notes?
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990753#Comment_3990753
Lol. I don't need to actually play it to know, "You're not allowed to kill any survivors before six hooks. You're never allowed to hook the same survivor twice. Survivors have basekit, unlimited Unbreakable" is going to suck to play against.
Good thing literally none of that is in the patch notes and it's just hyperbole you're convincing yourself of.
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
"Let's look back to your post and what I originally quoted:
If they play badly, why do I have to be penalized?You aren't being penalized."
Since my post is explicitly about Sadako, whose mori-fying power largely depends on survivor input, I'll better explain what is implied there:
1) Survivors screw up by not interacting enough / interacting too recklessly with tapes, their Condemn level raises
2) I manage to get the survivor fully condemned and mori them.
3) Their teammates now get a permanent boost to their gen repair speeds.
Points 1 and 2 are already possible in the current version of the game. Yes, when you add in point 3, you are adding an advantage to the survivor side / disadvantage for the killer that was not there before. I feel like that's an objective fact.
"But you killed a person, that is a bigger advantage for you" Yes! I managed to kill a survivor, which is my end goal as the killer, so I progressed on my one goal, and now I have one more thing going on for me. Just like survivors completing gens have one more thing going on for them. But it would be silly to have a non-perk, core mechanic that buffs the killer any time the survivors advance their goal, wouldn't it?
Yet we have it here in this Sadako situation: the survivors now have a random buff that they wouldn't have otherwise and is absolutely not related to the anti-tunnelling purposes it should have. It was explicitly designed to be anti-tunnel, but it punishes this (and many other) non-tunnelling scenarios. It is quite literally an oversight that affects something beyond what they planned. Hence I'm calling it not thought out well.
"What is a justifiable reason? It's a video game."
huh? First of all, when did I ever imply it's more serious than that? We're discussing the balance of a videogame on the videogame's forum. You're arguing that this change makes sense - you're literally providing what you think are justifications for its inclusion. And on my part I'm saying there are no valid justifications on a balance standpoint. What's the point of bringing the "it's just a game" card here..? I know..?"What's more justifiable then - we think this will make a better overall game.""
… yeah. and I'm saying that it wasn't thought through, because the change affects many situations beyond the ones that they planned for it to work on, and they were very explicit about it being an anti-tunnel mechanic.Points 1 and 2 are already possible in the current version of the game. Yes, when you add in point 3, you are adding an advantage to the survivor side / disadvantage for the killer that was not there before. I feel like that's an objective fact.
But what you're missing is the overall picture. Yes, this situation is not as slam-dunk beneficial as before, but as long as the situation still favours the killer, you're not being punished.
This is happening a lot right now, where killers are arguing about positions that heavily favour the killer, but because they don't favour the killer as heavily as they used to, they're being framed as though they now favour the survivor.
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@Skeleton23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990970#Comment_3990970
Uhm do you not know how players work. They abuse everything. I've known that for years. If anything is game breaking they will use and abuse it.
How is it abusing to force the other player to win?
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@Skeleton23 said:
Yeah i pretty sure this will stack and will be abused by swfs. My massive concern is Survivors purpously getting themselves killed to get this bonus. And tbh this won't do anything with Slugging and Tunneling it's only gonna increase it and i have a deep feeling Killers will be penalties for Tunneling and Slugging.
But to answer the question yes. I think it will stack and I think that means toolboxes and Gen Rush perks will be more effective and will make more issues for Killer.
We will lose killer players very fast
Aggressively forces the killer to win so we can use an undisclosed repair speed buff
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990313#Comment_3990313
Here's a fun fact for you… it's better for game health for there to be too many killers than too many survivors.
You need four survivors for each killer player, which means, optimally, there should be a 80-20 ratio. Everyone gets a match, and queues are quick for everyone.
Now, let's say there's too many killers, and it turns into a 75-25 ratio. That means that out of the 100 players, 6 killer players will have to wait for a match, while all 75 survivors and 19 of the killers get a match right away. 6 players will have to wait until more survivors come available.
But what if there's not enough killers, and we have an 85-15 ratio? Well, then 15 survivors will have to wait for a match, while 60 survivors and all the killers get a quick match.
So while being short on survivors isn't the best outcome, being short on killers means more than double the amount of people will have to wait.
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killers. I know, because I'm one of them. My top 3 killers are Knight, Xeno and Spirit, and only one of those killers will be viable come Tuesday.
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes.
I could, too. Problem is, I can also see that same contingent of killers be the kind to wind up in a spook'n'jukes video.
Well, probably less than 20%, to be fair.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989992#Comment_3989992
If a survivor has 1 hook state, and aggressively bodyblocks the killer, they instantly die if they get hooked again? Really?
Are you seriously going to complain that it's unfair to the killer when a survivor gives him a free down and hook?
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Now this is a strawman. Keyword MAXIMISE.
Ah, right, sorry. Because one person on hook isn't the same as three on hook and one in chase, I guess it doesn't do anything for the killer's pressure.
Don't be obstinate, dude.
Because if there is only there left one on hook one down then the killer goes back to hook and win right there when there is 4 he cannot do that. Feel like that should be obvious.
Why can the killer not go back to the hook if there's four survivors alive?
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@Jay_K said:
- If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial.
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
These 2 things are going to ruin the game for killersBefore anyone wants to comment "just don't tunnel" think about it. Killers are now FORCED to play by the survivor handbook and hand free wins effectively to them.
If you kill a survivor too fast then boom free gen progression for everyone. This means your damned if you do and damned if you don't. you kill someone because its the optimal play at the time then woo you got a kill but now all gens are gonna fly a little faster on top of whatever buffs it already has.
Then the way this reads sais that every time you kill a survivor and you find a gen near by thats nearly complete then uh uh uh you can't regress that gen to hopefully stop it popping meaning you have to just sit and wait for whatever timer BHVR decides to put on this (because in classic form no figures are released) and while your waiting other gens are flying.
Now im not saying that tunneling is fine and i agree with the masses that any killer who goes into a game and hardcore tunnels a survivor needs to maybe find another game to play because clearly this isn't the game for them but i can tell you from experience that sometimes you end up tunneling someone just because its the person you find. Not because you have gone out of your way to hunt them down or because you have gone back to hook to tunnel them. Its just the natural way that game has gone..
On top of this killers can no longer see the hook state of the survivors. So if your not taking notes you could end up tunneling without realizing. Even now I will hook someone and think Damn how are they dead what happened. not realizing i had multi hooked them because im just chasing whoever is around.
So please behaviour you need to do 2 things.Firstly you need to give more information because right now assumptions have to be made, and they are made based on previous changes made
secondly more thought needs to go into anti tunnel because based on the dev update these will really harm killers who don't tunnel intentionally and suffer from survivor induced tunneling.Before anyone wants to comment "just don't tunnel" think about it. Killers are now FORCED to play by the survivor handbook and hand free wins effectively to them.
The 6.1 killer buffs were forgotten by the end of the week.
These didn't even last the rest of the day before being memory-holed.
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If the anti-tunnel changes go through, survivors who have been hooked would be able to designate themselves as box solvers, head to the box and be in a win/win scenario.
'Lose less' =/= 'win'
That survivor would still be incapacitated for 90 seconds, and they'd still lose the box if they get downed before they can solve it.