Emeal
Emeal
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901536#Comment_3901536
It's a good question!
The simple answer is that our wonderful Design partners bring invaluable expertise to the table. Design decisions typically begin with them and then evolve from there. It's in these later stages that feedback is used to help inform what's working and what might need some work.
The slightly more complex answer is that, while your suggestion of bringing the community in at the ground floor to offer ideas of what a rework should entail is an interesting one (and I'm sure it would yield some interesting ideas), it's also an issue of scale. The DbD community is wonderfully massive, so a survey like this - putting aside the initial point for the moment - would yield a wide range of info, but would lack in the laser-focused specificity that helps inform the changes and refinements we're looking for.
So, while we're absolutely open to looking at different forms of feedback gathering in the future, there are certain limitations that influence how we tackle topics like this.
Forgive my vocabulary here, so its kind of like shooting wild and seeing what sticks approach? Yeah, I can actually see why that would make sense. And the logistics of a thorough survey of the community, there would easily be problems with that, I just didn't think of that, that's a very insightful response to me!
Thanks Ryan, I see what I was missing now and why It didn't make sense before. Hope to see the next stages.
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@ThatRyanB said:
Thanks for the extremely useful feedback in this thread! We're always open to refining our survey approach in the future, so notes like these help with that.
One thing that we will be sure to better highlight in the future is the intention of surveys like this. We understand there's only so much a person can glean from a written rework design vs. gameplay footage. The reality of opening the floor to feedback at such an early stage of design like this is that it typically falls before the prototyping stage, meaning gameplay footage simply isn't available. This is only one step in a multi-step process for us, so we absolutely don't expect folks to have a fully-formed, immutable impression of what we've shared. Heck, it's alright if that impression evolves over time!
What we're most interested in at this stage is understanding how the information, as presented in its early preview state, makes you feel. Are there things that sound like they'd be fun? Are there others that worry you? These initial impressions help inform the next steps of design and improvements. From the survey, we gain valuable data we can take back to the team, and from discussion spaces like this, we gain the granular feedback that helps provide the very human context of how folks play and experience DbD.
So all that to say, we fully don't expect you to have a fully-formed impression of this design. At this early stage, we're most interested in getting your first impressions, whether they feel clear-cut or a little more conflicting!
Hi Ryan, would it be cool to interject a Question about that multi-tiered process, which is mostly about the third part of your comment here, which maybe Im just not getting why this preview is the start. The preview is a rather fleshed out idea, which you are now getting feedback to, based on people's preferences. And I'm thinking rather than that, could we not get a people's preferences first in another way? Maybe a survey to ask us what ideas a Skull merchant Rework should entail or like what concepts we think her power should be? Why this route to do this and not another? As a nobody, a survey makes more sense to me, am I mistaken?
My intention is as a player also Im well interested in the Skull Merchant Killer ending up in a good place as much as you.
Much Love. -
@SoGo said:
I like the idea of a follower drone, probably even more than Drone Propulsion.
However, I do like the Red Light, Green Light mechanic too. That one would be fine to stay.
I'm personally not a fan of Skull Merchant again becoming a, "Oh she's gonna set up a trap and now I have to deal with BS" Killer.
Have you ever seen or played the game Baldi's (I forget what its called.) There is a enemy in that game, which walks around and follows you and then when it gets you, you have to do a lil annoying minitask like jumprope or something.
That thought is actually very funny to me, Having Drones, spot and follow a survivor and then periodically you have to be annoyed by it. While SM is moving in on your location. That would really make it necessary to remove the drone, maybe it could work.
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I agree that her identity is very much an intel, Trap hybrid Killer, but please re-edit the first sentence, this is not how we ought talk to other people. Even if they say things we dont agree with or find infuriating.
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@Lixadonna said:
Welcome to a Live Service Game.
BHVR may have the legal right to do so on paper, because they can take it by law.
But they will never have the moral or ethical right to do so, because those come from the people.Its moments like these when paying concern and attention to your players that judgements about Labor of Love considerations are made. Not for me tho, I always pick BHVR for Labor of Love, but If I felt more strongly that they didn't address or paid mind enough to people's wants and needs, then I might not pick them for it.
That being said, I think BHVR is watching all these conversations and planning their next move, a move I hope will be more research.
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Glad to see you continuing the feedback. Great to have you.
I think one of the real and biggest disconnects is how the Clawtrap appears on Survivors, like you walk into a line and then you get shot by a lightning and then it appears on your arm. Like honestly it would work so much better if the Drones had a canon that shot the Clawtrap at the Survivor.
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@SoGo said:
I feel like salvaging the Drone Propulsion and combining it with Lock On would be nice.
So you get a Drone that you can set on a survivor to always track them, and maybe also do something else, not sure what exactly.
Nobody disputes that a Drone Killer could not be fun, my post is more about those specific lines in the preview that seem to disregard a section of her fans or buyers. I was not sold a remote control drone woman, I was sold a hunter who uses Drones for Intel. There is a certain amount of persuasion for the idea that isn't happening to the groups who have invested most in her or seem to have been disregarded in writing of the preview.
Sure, its not fair to judge a whole company, with a few sentences, but those seem kind of alarming to what might happen.
That being, shrugging feedback off and making deep concessions to a general audience that wont stick with it.I need BHVR to understand that their Killer Products needs to a Healthy Community behind them.
The Killers have become real fantasy creatures and people genuinely like them, this is not something you can disregard.
and from that line written there, I see splitting, disappointment and resentment in the making.I'm not a professional Game Designer, but I do play DnD and this whole Skull Merchant Problem seems to be DEEPLY emotional as well as being a practical, gameplay problem. I recognize the the general feeling as a Game Master its tense and distraught.
Was I a Game Designer here, I would not make up an idea for evaluation, I would make a deep questionnaire (cause devs don't talk directly to us in a convo) to make sure I get to correct mindset of the people's characters, I would have done this on mass.
I might even want to get a Psychologist in to assist in reading what people say.
Drastic you might say, I say necessary cause I don't want the Skull merchant to be a knife to be twisted around in my back for the next 10 years. Then again, im not a budget and have to deal with the logistics of actually doing anything besides writing on a forum. -
@Rigbeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900654#Comment_3900654
I genuinely love playing as her and just want her status as a Trap-Stealth-Intel type to stay in game. We already have so many complex characters and the proposals in this rework really bother me because they remove Claw Traps, her Stealth and her passives that make getting Scanned so dangerous.
Yeah, I hope BHVR reconsiders and moves into stealth / information Killer rather than Twins gameplay.
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Im not against this idea.
I think you really hit the nail on the head here @Rigbeta with the discussion of why you like her character, lets for a moment appreciate the work the gameplay designer puts in. But I think the other ones we need to consider is the people who sold the character to us, the lore writer, the art designer and the marketing team. They sold us Adriana and I think the Gameplay Designers really need to dive deep into the original ideas and keep her concept well connected.
Honestly I feel for the Gameplay Designers here, their success is mainly dependent on connecting not only good gameplay, but reconnecting a beloved character with new gameplay without too much of a disconnect.
Allow me to throw my feelings regarding her character into the ring here too, Do you also think these ring true?
Her Eyes are in the Sky
She knows where you are, the Drones are her eyes.
They allow her to see everything, control everything, and strike with absolute certainty.She is unrelenting
She is on the move checking her 'phone' and getting updates on your location.
The culmination of this is she will be behind the bush right next to you soon and strike.Unyielding Control
The drones give her absolute control over the map.
Survivors might think they can escape her detection or sneak away, but she’s always tracking their every move.To me Adriana is like a control freak making her prey easy-pickings.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
For this to work, they would basically need to return original drones, where you got claw trap for disarming drones.
It wouldn't work at all with current claw trap. It's 100% up to survivors if you get it or not and can be easily denied.
Well yeah, but you can force it on, in a chase still then right?
I think its sounds cool as all hell. -
Actually… @PetTheDoggo what if the Skull merchant had the Dash and not the Drone, what would you feel about that as a conceptional idea at this point?
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@PetTheDoggo said:
Yeah, it seemed like someone was trying to create a way for Skully to be even more hated.
Im not that cynical, thinking about it adding more Skill expression is a good idea, I'm sure the intention is benign.
But it also means that those things rock the casual players the wrong ways and this mostly is a casual game, so there is a fine balance which can be very hard to predict.Also consider that some of the best gameplay has come from Dash Killers, Wesker, Dracula Wolf, like seems like a good idea to take some of that into Skull Merchant. But remote controlled dash drones seems bad to me, maybe if Skull merchant could dash like Pig but like Wesker if would be way better. one can dream!
God, Dash me and slam me into the wall, Adrianna you fiend!
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Contrarian as always, regardless BHVR should NEVER rush into an idea without consulting the feedback, even old and new.
Hate her and Love her, the Skull Merchant currently will hold steady until this process is over, rushing would always be a mistake.
It just does not make good sense to rush something out, BHVR should seep and dwell on all this new feedback for as long as needed.What next? Getting married after knowing a Girl for two weeks? Haha please no, dont do it man.
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@SoGo said:
Yeah, I agree.
How the hell am I supposed to know how enjoyable will her power be to verse?
The questions should have been different, or there should be a "What other thoughts do you have?" question.
You are not supposed to know it, You are supposed to consider, from a conceptional place to answer if BHVR is moving in the right or wrong way with their ideas.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900329#Comment_3900329
I think the animation and associated sound of him swapping spells is hard to pick out amongst the million other visuals and sounds of maps and chases and my survivor making injured noises and chase music, especially given he could be swapping to other spells and the voice line that gives a tell for which spell he's using just doesn't play sometimes, but I understand now that that's no excuse. My reaction time is probably just too poor.
Apologies for wasting your time.
Your reaction time isn't poor, its just a Killer that can if you are in a thin specific zone in front of him, at a specific cooldown and that he has the spell prepared, then yes he is able to take a healthstate. One could have the opinion that "NO, all projectile attacks should be able to be dodged without exception." Yet this is not feasible, there are certain situations where you are just F-ed.
People will debate this forever, whether the fact that a Survivor ends up in an unfavorable situation is a failure or their expression of skill or just stuff that happens in a Game of Dead by Daylight. I dont think we should beat around the bush with what Vecna can do, even if you do blame yourself or not. Yeah, he has basically a "die" button under certain circumstances, but I think its quite the skill expression to get the Survivor into that area, at the right time and not able to crouch. Hard enough already.
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- Idd say 35 sec cooldown + waiting for the right moment in seconds is quite the windup for such an attack, ignoring the fact you can hear and see him selecting a spell as well as to when he holds the spell ready.
I dont think its a good idea to remove a skill expression from a Killer based on, "I just don't want to have to randomly crouch"
like you are honestly just trying to ignore and not engage with Counterplay here. Yes there are certain ranges and certain moments he can and will instantly hurt you. But every Killer has those if you refuse to engage with their counter play.Crouching as a pre-caution when after dropping a pallet is a valid counter play, you merely not wanting to do it should not be grounds to destroy that skill expression and throw an otherwise fine Killer into balance limbo for possibly many months.
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Agreed, the chase command has awful aiming and I made a post about it on the PTB forum. This issue has not been addressed yet.
This bothers me immensely, Please BHVR consider addressing this. -
Seemingly BHVR did make any changes as far as Im aware to the difficulty my reported when aiming the Search Command.
Either they didnt think it was a problem, or they missed it. I had written a big fat post about it too, Im kinda mortified it was never addressed as I see that as one of the biggest problems when trying to enjoy Houndmaster.
You suggestion in the title is not good, but I see it comes from the same source problem as I have and please we need changes to it.
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@Brimp said:
Yeah idk. After the survey in what January I think? They asked a bunch of stuff about how people feel about slugging. And from what I've heard it was mainly from the survivor perspective.
In the Survey, you ARE asked to identify as either Survivor or Killer, main or both player.
That means BHVR knows if Killer mains support it or not.Killer Mains such as myself support it.
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I don't see stacked medkits every match, not ever since I stopped trying to sweat to win.
I just try to enjoy the match and play as best I can.If you are unhappy about the mmr level you are at, why not just chill down a layer or two?
What is the Entity gonna do? Come to my house? LADY, THIS IS YOUR HOUSE! See nothing, Entity cant do anything. -
Nah, games should not continue forever, if you as Killer cant manage to capture and kill 4 Survivors, in 8 hits to all 5 gens.
Then you are clearly too high mmr for the game your are in. -
So whats the idea, if you hack our game, we will attempt to destroy your programming or PC?
What then when hackers figure out how to trigger it for people who are not hacking?
Oh dear, Sorry Otz, thats a full rig reinstall.
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Agreed, agreed and agreed.
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I feel like there's an important part missing from this discussion.
The Terror Radius (TR) exists to give survivors a fair chance to react and start running, and it’s especially beneficial for low- to mid-MMR players. In that sense, I’d argue that Wesker is about mobility, even if his ability isn't purely designed for it. His 40m TR helps compensate for his movement potential, making him fairer to play against—especially for less experienced players.
The frustration seems to come from situations where survivors barely get a second of warning before suddenly getting grabbed. That kind of instant pressure without counterplay would feel unfair, and I believe that's precisely why Wesker has a 40m TR.
You're right that Wesker’s power isn’t purely mobility-based, but that’s because his large TR serves as a balancing factor, giving survivors time to react. I disagree with the idea of reducing his TR just because it limits his ability to use his power for mobility. If anything, his weaker mobility in exchange for fairness is a good thing—it keeps him from feeling oppressive.
Honestly, I think we should be glad he has this trade-off.
Otherwise, we'd probably see a lot of posts complaining that Wesker is too strong. -
@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893564#Comment_3893564
So it makes them more stealthy while not using their stealth power, that makes sense to you how exactly?
That a Stealth Killer is more stealthy even without using their stealth power, than a normal Killer?
Easy, its because they are a Stealth Killer, thats why it makes sense.
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It just reduces the alert he can create from his TR when hes not stealthed, makes perfect sense to me.
its not about the person getting sacrificed, its about other people finding out where someone is being killed.Makes sense to me.
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I think keeping Map Offerings in the game is a bad strategy, the reason we have them is so people can get achievements.
But they really sour the experience, no body is happy to be sent to a map which they percieve the other team is prepared for.
I feel like Map Offerings is an old design that kinda has to die, we cant allow people to prepare so much for a specific play, the games have to flow organically. -
What you want addressed is Proxy-camping, which is when a Killer is camping by standing just outside the range and not walking around or looking elsewhere for other survivors. It can be tricky to fix, but I agree still standing proxy camping is NOT VERY FUN.
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Mr X. AND other Tyrant variants would be very good candidates for skins.
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@arthurrz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883331#Comment_3883331
I don't know the reason why they decided to put 2 bots in every match. Maybe put more bloodpoint incentive (first time it was 400%).
Think about it, I bet BHVR has data that shows that even if a player DCs the match that continues after that ends about the same as a normal match. So logically that must mean that bots do over all equally will result in about the same as a human would.
However some factors they have not thought alot about is how well players react to seeing a bot doing absolute foolish things.
As well as even the result of the match MAY be equal to Human, the feeling, the chase and the agency of a Human is NOT replicated well in the bots.I also find it ironic that BHVR being creatives in the industry would certainly fight back against their jobs being replaced with AI.
But somehow the idea was greenlit to replace gamers with AI, I'm glad they tried it, but its already not funny anymore AND I'm not playing another match of that.Ill be waiting for BHVR to announce that they will tone down the bots before I play again.
I have been absolutely disappointed yesterday.There MAY be a fine balance of when and where its a good idea to add bots, but yesterday was awful. I certainly dont want BHVR to think there is no reason to add bots to help congestion, but maybe start with like one bot.
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No, the number of players is fine.
Its BHVR who came up with a really bad idea to think their AI-bots were good enough to make a good gaming experience.
I hope the outrage is strong enough that BHVR realizes they need to really hold back on the bots, bots are only really good for DCs, as a replacement for an actual human its awful.I hope they implement a ticket system next time for 2v8 to gain tickets to by playing Survivor to play Killer in fast queue and hold off on the bots until the Killer queue is above 15min.
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@sanees said:
meh, in my games they do 90% of the duties of survivors, namely repairing generators, if you extend chase for at least 30 seconds, probably 6+ survivors will escape without even straining
Sure, humans are human, but a robot is supposed to play at least on par with a human, which they dont.
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Indeed, the bots are doing very bad choices.
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Its okay to like some killers and hate others, but I don't think BHVR should stop making Killers of certain designs.
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I also don't like days maps, but I understand the problems with light and vision and honestly horror can exist during the day.
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is proof of that and the opening scene of Jeepers Creepers 2 is pretty good.I think there is a perfect valid point here of ASKING BHVR to improve the lighting on Coldwind and Eyrie to make it just a lil later in the day.
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@WolfgangGarou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881198#Comment_3881198
Let me get your point straight - you're saying that my statement that the ability to coordinate can be there and can make a significant difference. But at the same time it is irrelevant because there is no evidence that SWF teams would use this advantage to make the game easier for themselves. And in the absence of this evidence, there is no reason to assume that the game is sufficiently difficult for the killer side that one could say that the game is sufficiently difficult here (beyond isolated, anecdotal experiences) that it can be assumed that killer players would be deterred from playing by this thing.
Correct?
With respect, if you're asking for this amount of evidence from statistics (and I have my doubts as to whether BHVR themselves could recognise this because their statistics don't note match progression and the effects of third-party software on progression, only results and participants), then you can literally dismiss anything that anyone can put forward on the subject as being without merit.It's just another way of bluntly shutting your dialogue partner up by accusing them of not having enough knowledge and therefore not being allowed to take a position in the conversation because they can't make an objective statement.
Not quite.
SWFs could coordinate to different degrees, Im saying I recognize its possible that some could coordinate to a degree that shifts the balance. It would have to be demonstrated that such SWF are a prevalent enough problem that requires major reworks and compensations. Most SWF who play hard in my opinion are full of hot air and playing smartly and efficiently will beat them, but only BHVR would know how big a problem this is.
Let me explain why I ask this.
Because im not shutting down your dialogue, nor am I requiring you to provide objective statements. I'm asking for this discussion to be tempered in what we do or dont know from statistical data. Its clear you are frustrated by some SWF teams, anyone could take that away from this thread, perfectly valid to think this way, but not immune to questioning in a discussion, if we’re making claims about broader trends or game balance, it’s fair to examine what evidence we have to support them and talk about what we think is fair to be in the game or not.
like if this is 1 in 10 then it isnt bad in my opinion. what about you?
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I would prefer no more map offerings.
So if the Map Selector picks Ormond Realm, it should not pick between all the variants, it should pick between The Lodge or The Mine and for the Lodge it should then pick one of the variants.
A Moderator could surely tell us how the Map selector works.
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I would prefer if the Killer we got was the Skeletal Robot version, and then Arnold being a legendary skin.
Gameplay? I dont know because most of the time, its just walking towards you while shooting a gun at you, which is like Trickster?But hell yeah, I want the Skelebot anyway.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881242#Comment_3881242
To be honest, I actually pretty much agree with your assessment here.
I believe you're spot on with how the community thinks about perks. My personal opinion is "meta" perks… and tbh all perks to a degree, have a tendency to build bad habits and an over-reliance on them in players if they use them repeatedly. I still condemn WoO constantly because I fervently maintain it does more to hinder a new players growth than help them.
Many players for example run exhaustion perks, but because their exhaustion perks can often get them to a point of safety, they tend to play much more recklessly than they should, and often it leads them to make a mistake that if that perk isn't available, causes them to lose, or leave a teammate in a desperate situation. To my mind you should change up your build often to ensure you are building good fundamentals of DBD across the board… it's also much more fun to keep trying new builds than trying to sweat lord every single game.
I'm also of the opinion the grind isn't that bad IF you understand the system and take a minute to think about what you should be doing.
I do feel like it would be beneficial for new survivors to have help with a better jump off point. Some changes I would promote for new player experience: -
- Better/Advanced tutorial, with a greater emphasis on finer game mechanics, such as sound ranges, basic guide to fast vaulting and looping, etc.
- Some mechanism of exploring/understanding killer powers and counterplay… maybe even a spectate a random game in progress mode for certain killers to watch what other players are doing on either side.
- Greater rewards of bloodpoints and iri shards for the first few (maybe 20) Player account levels as a jump off point.
- If not that maybe a Welcome pack sent out via the message system with a predetermined amount of points to spend.
- Better options in the shrine of secrets, maybe 5 perks per side.
Sounds like some very good ideas and I think New Players need a better intro into the System of playing the game.
I think welcome back packages sounds like a wonderful idea, like if you have not been on for like a month.Something I want is special rules for Custom Games, idd want something called infinite mode, where pallets respawn at fixed numbers, other special rules would be that being sacrificed just puts you elsewhere in the game again fully healed or any other rule to quick heal a survivor.
The reason idd want this is that it would be sparring with a friend easier, like if you want to learn to play against or with a Killer.
Doing this would be way easier. One of a my friends wanted to be a good Deathslinger, so we agreed to not down me, but just practise shots at Mother's Dwelling. He learned pretty quick to adapt to me, it was like a super boost of experience.I think we need a new thread we sorta derailed to talk about what could be done for new players rather than topic.
Thanks for the back and forth. -
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881229#Comment_3881229
Well my point is, that it's not the tiers of perk that are the problem, it's the unlocking of perks in the bloodweb that makes up the grind, and that is true even if your are targetting specific perks.
You either have to unlock perks via unlocking the character and P1-ing the character, which is shards or buying them... or you have to buy the perk in the shrine of secrets, which is extremely limited and also requires shards as well.
Removing tiers doesn't address the grind at all, because levelling perks is barely any grind at all... the issue is unlocking perks you want in the first place.
If you want to remove perk tiers, OK I guess, I'm kinda indifferent to it... it reduces the long term grind once you have all characters...
However if the goal is to help new players get going with builds, this change does almost nothing to help them. A change that would help new players is drastically expanding the perks available via the Shrine of Secrets somehow and giving them a significant boost in iri shards for their first steps into the game.
Either that, or give new players 5 of a new currency that grants free purchases of perks from the shrine of secrets, that are kept permanently until you use them. That would help people actually get going with builds.
Im indifferent to perk tiers.
I disagree that this game has a grind that is in need of addressing. All the times I have discussed this here, the argument seems to be that this game does not cater to completionist players better, most players are not completionists and the kicker is that new players do not need all the perks in the game, nor do the need specific perks to have a fighting chance. What they need is to do is play the game to learn it, Simple as.
If the goal is to help new players get going with builds
This sentence I thought was interesting, yes the goal is to get new players going, but they have within days of playing a wide variety of perks so they should be going with builds. However we have a colossal social problem that everyone will say such and such perks are useless, here have my perk tier list etc, we put into new player's head that they MUST HAVE these perks, they dont.
Its also a vicious cycle, because if you use the strongest perks in this game your MMR will go up and you will face harder and harder players, which could burnout a player if they don't have skills learned first. I think the Community is doing the Community a disservice here, not that anyone deserves blame here.
I do want to say would very much support additions to the Shrine, as wells as price differences on perks that are geared towards new players.
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@UndeddJester said:
I'm gonna be honest… I think you guys are tackling the wrong part of the problem....
As someone who started playing May 2023 (so went through the modern grind), the issue isn't really getting perks to tier 3. Once you have perks unlocked, getting all perks to tier 3 on a character is quite easy tbh. You only need maybe 3 prestiges on your chosen main and you have all your perks at tier 3, which is maybe a week of effort for even a casual player, or a month tops if they use their end of season rewards.
Where the real grind bottleneck lies, is having to get every character unlocked and then getting them to tier 1 to get their perk unlocked to appear in the web that is the problem...
To give you some numbers, I bought all the content (even the original DBD characters), but even doing that took me 1100 hours to get every perk to tier 3 on every character (both killer and survivor).
If we half that to reflect only one side, then third it to simulate removing the perk tiers as you are proposing... that's still 180 hrs+ to unlock all perks on a single character...
The thing this is what it takes now... it doesn't make a difference if perks unlock at tier 1 of tier 3, you still have to level 40ish characters to unlock their teachable perks... once you've done that then its just 3 prestige levels on your chosen character to get all shared perks on that character to tier 3...
This is the strategy to employ right now, So it's about 185 hrs to get a single character fully kitted out on the current system... and this is ignoring all Iridescent shards and paid DLC issues, which aren't affected by perk tiers really at all.
So I dont think the perks levels need to be removed... because doing so doesn't address the grind really at all, maybe for someone wanting to play multiple killers perhaps, however even then, its still the need to play all characters to P1 thats the actual bottleneck.
Upgrading perks in the shrine of secrets to t3 is pointless... that should be removed as a beginner trap IMO. The grind would be majorly lowered for a budget player if they had like 5 perks per shrine of secrets per side, with the ability to lock 1 perk for the changeover each week. That would be a change that would make a real difference to lower the grind and get player on track to completing builds they want without the huge paywall.
To give you some numbers, I bought all the content (even the original DBD characters), but even doing that took me 1100 hours to get every perk to tier 3 on every character (both killer and survivor).
Not every person is going to buy every character, only whale type players do. Other than that, you don't need every perk on every character to enjoy this game or have a fun time. You are effectively scaring people away from this by saying that you need to do all these things when you don't, Why does the Grind conversation always have to be about 100% a game when the vast majority don't?
Friends of mine joined this game last 2v8 and they literally already have a surplus of bloodpoints, they looked at the Survivors, one liked Sable and then they bought Sable and now they wanna play them. What I told them is get every other character to P1 and keep playing the one they want.
BHVR likely has numbers that show even when they made the overall grind easier, the vast majority play like one character as Survivor OR a few as Killer. I doubt the vast majority is cashing in every new chapter, like I do. Besides if you are a whale player, you are gonna get all perks to T3 by the time you hit P3 anyway so im like, this matters so little.
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@WolfgangGarou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880778#Comment_3880778
It doesn't need to be in 100% of matches to be considered a visible advantage - after all, some rounds of SWF can actually play quite chilled out and not give a damn about winning as long as everyone is having fun. It just needs to be a recognisable advantage that can be exploited if desired.
And that's exactly the case. So the fact that it doesn't occur in all rounds is more an indication of the existence of statistical outliers rather than that this advantage doesn't exist. To prove the significant advantage, it is sufficient that there are rounds that run like this and that cannot be explained otherwise.
And since there are these rounds happen... quod erat demonstrandum.
Logical reasoning alone isn’t enough to prove a claim like this—especially one that involves a complex, variable system like a multiplayer game. Just because something seems true based on anecdotal experience doesn’t mean it holds up under scrutiny. Empirical data would be able to demonstrate the scope and size of the problem, we don't have that, so merely the potential that this could happen isn't enough to cause alarm.
Your core claim—that an advantage exists and can be exploited—is likely true, but the argument overstates its universality and significance without strong supporting data. It dismisses counterexamples too easily and assumes that isolated cases prove a broader systemic effect. To make the argument stronger, it would need statistical data on win rates, coordination effects, and how often the advantage meaningfully impacts the game.
That being said BHVR, We would love to see that SoloQ against SWF over MMR.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880746#Comment_3880746
The Voice chat system itself breaks the game.
1. You have quasi bond
2. If one player know where the killer is they all do and that breaks stealth killers
3. Their coordination becomes very hard especially with Sabo, Flashlights for the killer to deal with.
4. Gen rushing becomes a very hard to beat especially if you have 1-2 people doing Killer diversions.If that was true and happened in all SWFs, then all stealth Killers would have a visible disadvantage against SWF in the stats.
But it doesn't happen in all SWF, now does it?
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Do we have any stats that demonstrate that SWF is having an unfair advantage?
Pretty sure the vas majority of SWF is equal to soloQ, idd like to see SoloQ winrate against SWF winrate over MMR% -
I think it would be too much work to design a zombie skin for each Survivor, also licence holders would also have to be okay with it.
From a gameplay perspective it encourages tunneling so Nemesis may kill someone to show off the zombie.Cool idea, but very unpractical.
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What bug? I have not seen a single bug for like half a year and I play every night,
Are you use its not just you guys systems that are faulty?Anyway, there ARE problems that I urge BHVR to fix before FNAF:
- Long Term Slugging - This is when a Killer leaves many Survivors to be slugged, this is incredibly boring and frustrating for Survivors. Its time we give Survivors as edge against this strategy and as a Killer I think there should be a choice between slugging or they get up for free in a minute.
- Go next Epidemic - There is a huge problem of players who want to go next and they dont feel like DC'ing to take a penalty and give the other players a bot who might do something. I think its about hightime you remove the ability to self-unhook except with certain perks. And then only enable the self unhook chance when the game is about to come to a close or dire situations.
- Vastly improve the loading screen tips for Survivors, lets face facts there are 40 Killers almost and Survivors are unlikely to keep advice, tips and strategies in their head. The tutorial is good for the basics but actual Killer advice is needed and I think the best place is the loading screens. Sure the loading screens is known to have pretty generic advice, but if you improved it and gave good advice there it could be way better.
These are the most urgent problem, anything else can ride the wave of FNAF without issue, Sure DBD isnt flawless, but its keeping together beautifully. These 2 first problems would VASTLY improve the in game experience, even though they might be rare, when they happen its sorta like the dark point of the evening when we game.
Honestly, I dont know a single match lately without someone taking an extra health state from themselves lately.
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I'm very surprised she has lasted past Freddy Rework with that Janky Search Power, either everyone at the office was busy on freddy and its been delayed. I mean I still enjoy playing her, but the search jank, leaves much to be desired.
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@Mandy said:
Wiretap seems to be in a pretty good place right now, it's one of those perks where you have to be very careful as over buffing it would make it far too strong. Right now it's a fairly strong perk as it is, when used correctly, especially on some very specific gens.
It's definitely not on our list for perks that require a buff at this time.
Would it be possible for you to reveal maybe two or three on your lists that need some work?
I think it would be interesting to do a thread like that, basicly you name three perks and we squeeze our minds about them.
Could also be a good way to get people to say things about perks they dont like,
which could inspire the devs on how to eliminate pain points of said perks? -
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879479#Comment_3879479
I already explained how it will happen.
Even if he is overperforming months from now and genuinely needs tuning after people have learned his counterplay, that wouldn't make a nerf within the first two weeks justifiable.
When it comes to healing teleport his counterplay is clear and very effective.It would be completely justifiable, bHVR has done this like 38 times they know a problem when they see it.
They have access to killrates at any region and across mmr, if there is a problem they will sniff it out. They also are easily able to figure out at which rates complicated Killers are learned and can predict where they will end up.So far this weekend its been Freddy 4Ks until MMR buckles under and we get to play against someone who just bought the game once and then its back to Freddy. Absolute yikes.
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I dont hope bHVR stops making Map variants, its great diffrence in gameplay.