Ecstasy
Ecstasy
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I've not played as Trickster yet, but I've certainly played against him.
Kudos to BHVR for responding to feedback and making a call to implement quick change.
I don't know if it'll fix everything, but IMO it's better to tweak as needed now than letting matters linger in the no mans land for ages until you can come up with the perfect solution involving large adjustments since those perfect solutions usually never come and the large adjustments require their own tinkering to get right. It can be a vicious cycle.
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Yeah if only we could have more quality threads like this here.
Nothing beats a good circle-jerk about what a circle-jerk everything is for "THE OTHER SIDE!!!"
One magnificent ouroboros of dicks and hands
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@TruEternity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2088345#Comment_2088345
Nope, pushing a button in a game isn’t toxic, even when abusing a glitch. Just because you get butthurt a survivor does squats in your face doesn’t make it toxic.
Clearly. Oh look I'm hitting some more keys here--the order is "######### loser" hmm, welp, all I did was hit some keys still. Now lets point at that fat kid eating ice-cream to see if we can make him embarrassed and cry. Can't be mad at us for just pointing! Nice, we're still in time for the girls basketball practice. I love to laugh and clap when the girls miss a shot! Or are those babies gonna try telling us that joy & laughter is suddenly toxic now too?
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@TruEternity said:
There isn’t “toxic t-bagging”, pushing the control key in a game isn’t toxic. Lots of killers are just overly sensitive and blame their own poor performance and lack of skill on the game, and anything a survivor does is toxic to that person. Ignore those people, or point and laugh, then move on to the next trial.
Always adorable. "I HIT CONTROL! HOW CAN KEYBOARDS BE TOXC!??
Whhhhhat??? You mean communication is a process of encoding messages into abstract mediums???
Are you seriously telling me that my expression designed exclusively to convey disrespect and belittlement towards the other player is somehow being... interpreted as some sign of disrespect and belittlement by them, exactly as I intended?
Gee its almost like taunting is the ######### definition of toxic behavior.
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@Malum_Midnight said:
Got called a....word that starts with an f and normally refers to homosexuals
Fabulous?
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@Clünge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2087040#Comment_2087040
And someone is getting triggered over a loss already confirmed.
As soon as that pick up is secured don't think you're entitled to the hatch. That is severely more cringe
Nope. Pretty sure a personal little pantomime that you're going to let someone go just so you can go "HAHA GOT YOU!" to feel like big bad killer mans is about as cringe as it gets.
Say whatever else you want about whoever else you want after--it doesn't erase how sad that is.
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@Clünge said:
Just take the hook like a champ. I like the killer's approach there
That's the approach I'd advocate in most any game situations, but--man--that fake hatch thing is always pure cringe.
Like someone is getting off hard at the whole roleplay thing there.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2086504#Comment_2086504
Well, Old Freddy was better in that aspect since he was closer to what Freddy is in the movies.
A baby killer?
*rimshot*
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Tuesday tuesday gonna depip on tuesday
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I'm 100% sure that key rates are spiked.
I've found more keys this last week than I've gotten all year. (Okay that's only 3 but c'mon, it's not just coincidence when its happening to everyone else too).
Had a game just today game earlier where someone got an iridescent one at the start of the game and then I found a purple one at the end.
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Love it.
And Toulon's mansion from the 1st... 2nd..... 4th and, damn, 5th film would make a badass map. (I was originally just going to say first film before it starting to dawn on me how its the setting for most of the franchise).
Torch would be cool. But also because this game is severely lacking on ways to set people on fire.
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@spiritsLeftball said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2081628#Comment_2081628
Its so annoying that technically the way he was playing he was defo holding us hostage however I’m sure someone would say, “on the contrary that’s a valid strategy”.
On the contrary... that's not holding the game hostage because that's not what "holding the game hostage" actually means as far as the rules are concerned. (And I'm extremely surprised to see some posters implying it is reportable/bannable who I assumed would know otherwise.) Holding a game hostage is very specifically the situation where you can't progress the game at all.
"Holding the game hostage" isn't just "I can't progress the game without majorly risking that I lose the game" which is what you're really describing here. If you wanted out, you'd just let him hook you. If he wanted out, he'd just abandon the gens.
You're both free to go at any point--the only thing "taking you hostage" is your own ambition. There was a shared desire to win at the costs. It takes both sides making a decision to play it super safe and actually commit to a war of attrition in hope the others will fold or #########-up first. If you're not willing to put losing on the line by taking the major risks required to break that 3-gen faster--and they're not either--you're both responsible for the match dragging out. Not all that fun, but certainly not rule breaking. That's for sure.
Sounds like they just had a killer map setup, though that's how RNG goes sometimes. In most situations, a 4-man really should bust up a 3-gen with relative ease. It's always a war of attrition, but almost always unsustainable as a killer unless the survivors majorly ######### up and let you thin their numbers. There's the flipping point. With four survivors, 3-gens are almost always the killer delaying the inevitable. With two survivors, 3-gens are almost always the survivors
delaying the inevitable… abandoning each other to look for hatch. -
@valvarez4 said:
15 matches pay to win Freddy. 60 dead survs without camping or tunneling. I expect more difficult games in red ranks, but Freddy is op as hell. Ah, and only 9 DS
Good for you man.
I figure you're out probably wanting to prove something about Freddy (though he's already lined up for a nerf, so kinda futile IMO), but either-way you should really give some of the other killers a shot too. (And I don't just mean Spirit lol.) Try the killers you don't see often in the red ranks and get a feel for them too.
Based on the crazy amount of hours you've got logged as survivor alone, I'd say you're right that you'll probably slaughter your way through the lower ranks without a decent challenge for some time.
You'll largely be side-stepping the biggest difficulty/learning curve faced by new killers since you're already packing the major knowledge of loops/techs/spawns/gen-efficiency/etc that you'd otherwise be learning the same time you're learning all that stuff as a survivor. (Also sounds like you're rocking all the strongest perks/add-ons already, eliminating that grind-fest playing weaker killers too). You're actually not likely to encounter much bullying then either. Like all bullies, they prey on the weakest and most vulnerable from a position of relative strength, so it's never really that same "kicking you while you're down" experience when you're not actually down.
In fact--as least for the meantime--you probably won't even see that initial cocky behavior (those moments just before survivors realize to take a match for real) where they casually teabag after every pallet-stun... if only because pallet-stuns are so ridiculously bugged to the point of near non-existence right now. 😵
But if you're specifically looking for a challenge along the way, I would definitely recommend trying for some of the killer adept trophies and also consider playing in the evenings/weekends where you'll go up against more SWF groups.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2079022#Comment_2079022
Well I would make the inverse argument - that you are just a trash killer. Since the majority of killers had a greater than 68 percent kill rate at the red ranks, TEN NERF PATCHES AGO. The game is heavily killer sided just based on statistics. I would love for them to release the current statistics of kill rates now, after the huge movement nerf and the continuation of making survivor gameplay just be a 4k power fantasy.
This is actually a post I made yesterday for someone else, but I'm pretty damn sure I could've just copy/pasted this here without ever mentioning it and no one could tell the difference. It's 100% just as fitting a rebuttal to your posting in this thread, where you've followed the same pattern of points and logic (combined with every logical misstep along the way).
[The only thing I might've done differently here is challenge you more directly about the absurdity of taking any hard stances on balance since you're far more adamant about only experiencing half of this game. I don't get how anyone could ever trust their own perspective when so totally dependent on their own biases filling in literally half the picture.]
For the record, I'm breaking up my posts into chapters these days
I: Of Flat Rate Morgue-ages
The kill rates will always be that high--especially in the red ranks--because if they weren't that high killers wouldn't pip up in the first place... meaning players with lower stats wouldn't be in the higher ranks to ever be counted in that data. This leaves us with--you guessed it--the exact same kill rates.
You need 3Ks to pip as a red rank killer (and that's still not guaranteed). As a survivor, you don't even need to survive. Hell, you can pip from an AFK killer.
That whole "50% survival rate!!" is literally impossible to maintain according to the game's own scoring demands. Or it's at least impossible without counting on low ranks to absorb non-stop 4-man escapes enough to compensate for the kills required to reach/maintain higher ranks--but you certainly can't expect many new killers would stick around for long in those conditions. Then again--maybe that's exactly what the devs expect of new players, and the source of many problems...
Just don't pretend the survival rates reflect the game's balance. Don't pretend that solo players can't (and don't) stomp killers if they're competent at generator efficiency. Don't pretend that team wipeout stats aren't boosted by total potatoes, quitters, and SWFs dicking around (especially given that most quickly realize how simply escaping becomes incredibly boring and easy when you're already stacking the deck with the cheating-level advantage of voice-coms)
II: Like A "Who Done It?" Without The Who
If you want a metric that really suggests this game's primary imbalance & target for adjustment, try considering the actual player rates for both game modes. You'll discover largely that... NOBODY ######### WANTS TO PLAY KILLER!
It only takes one killer player for every four survivors already. Were the modes equally popular/balanced/fun, we can infer that killer queues should run roughly 4x as long. But they aren't even equal to survivor queues. They're roughly 4x faster. Obviously side influences affect player rates too, but the raw extent of that gap is the damning implication that cannot be ignored.
In DBD, we've got one mode that's a lot more fun, besting, and where "losing" can still be "winning." We've got another mode that's a lot more tense, belittling, and where "winning" can still be "losing." Hell, consider how many people would never touch killer at all if not for dailies & tomes (which I suspect might includes you here too).
III: Being Mindful Of Hives
Also, because I've seen a lot of "killer hivemind!" silliness in this thread, I'll say this: there's always a persecution complex when you're heavily distorted by the inverse of whatever bias you perceive. Any opinions expressed by one of "them" constitutes the whole voice of "the others!", so it's always an institution united in some overwhelming (naturally hypocritical) push for dominance rather than ever recognizing the multitude of individual--even contradictory--POVs out there. "Persecution" and "bias" aren't arguments in and of themselves; weaponizing them as such is just a convenient means to dismiss logic you might otherwise recognize if you actually engaged.
If you find that forum suggestions here lean towards improving the killer gameplay experience, that's not exactly some big "killer mains secretly run these forums, & the media, & international banking!!!" conspiracy. People here predominantly play both halves of this game, and each voices the problems & potential solutions as they perceive them. And they even don't agree on which aspects are which there. As it happens though, the general shared sentiment (something is rotten in the killer fields) only reflects what we're seeing expressed by player rates & preferences here already.
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Random quandary: when someone is hiding in a locker hoping for to you die so they can grab hatch, can pointing them out to the killer even be sandbagging your own team?
Just some "'grandfather's axe" and "tree falling alone in the woods" level ######### right here.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2078773#Comment_2078773
It's used by Nurse players I know that, sometimes Blight but not really by any other killers. Obviously Shadowborn is good on Nurse as it helps her see survivors during fatigue. I'm not sure if it provides an advantage for Blight or if it was providing an advantage with old Blight due to his low pov.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x0L9lC0nos
There is a video of stretched resolution on Nurse. That's far more powerful than Shadowborn, it basically cancels out the lack of sight you're meant to get from fatigue.
I think the vertical view increase just isn't as beneficial on other killers, Trapper, Wraith, Pig etc which is why you won't see it as much. Not to mention tournaments are usually based around Nurse anyway.
But yeah stretched res should be fixed on both sides.
Many thanks for the informative explanation and examples!
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@DeadHardMan said:
Stretched res "exploit" is rather difficult to take care of. But it must be mentioned that stretched res can be used by both Survivors and Killers IIRC, so really both sides can use the exploit to their advantage.
Should it be taken care of? Yes, they should, but it'll be very difficult to do so.
I've seen people say it helps killers too, but never really elaborated how. I don't know if I'm missing something here or if its their misunderstanding.
Since survivor POVs are 3rd person, stretching the resolution increases visibility around certain loops in a way that mitigates mind-game potential and transforming some semi-safe loops into safe loops. That difference has been evidenced in numerous screenshot examples before.
In what circumstances does stretched resolution actually benefit the killer? (And is there any footage/screens showcasing the extent of that difference in terms of actual gameplay?)
Meanwhile--though this is more inference than hard evidence--I'm under the impression that stretched-res is popular among all those tournament SWFs looking to stack up every cheap advantage they can get. However, it's (again AFAIK) not utilized by all the tournament killers they go up against... who'd surely want every cheap edge they could muster too.
Those circumstances suggest to me whatever "benefits" are either totally non-existent or so marginal to the point of irrelevance, maybe even determent. Presenting it as "both sides" exploit then would be either entirely misinformed or incredibly disingenuous.
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@just_teme said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/239932/thoughts-on-crosshairs
Would honestly help with survivour sometimes as your screen can be full of vomit, shock or gas.
Hell or just for revealing ghostface
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@NoObzBoiYT said:
I finished every single challenge and I made it to tier 59. The grind for the rift is too much and needs to be toned down. On fortnite I could literally play for 30minutes and rank up multiple times. For dbd I got to play for hours just to rank up plus the game doesn’t even have daily/weekly challenges Incase you run out of challenges.
Its absolutely true that the rift (and this game) are way too grind intensive, but I think there's something else going on your end too.
Didn't that new tome just come out??
You've gotta be one of the people who treats the cumulative challenges the same as the single trial ones, where you just do a whole build centered on getting the 10 basement hooks in the same game, and gen-rushing in repeated 5 minute games jusy to get it over with instead of just playing your games normally with that as a side objective you're considering.
######### are you grinding that hard for? There's no point in hard min-maxing challenges to finish them as quickly as possible in as few games as possible (often throwing those games) so you can move onto the next changes.
You're meant to be leveling up from the game play time too so naturally there's this huge disparity if you rush through them where you've still got a lot of games to play. Obviously it makes sense if the clock is ticking down on you, but--aside from the crazier challenges--there's really no need to distort your whole gameplay around the rift rather than incorporating a little side objective for matches.
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ETA: Never.
At this stage, I'm confident they only announced keys were getting nerfed to muffle the uproar about moris. They certainly had no time frame in mind or the slightest inkling of how they would do it.
I'm not sure if they ever even intended to do anything about originally--or if it was 100% deception from the start--but, if they hit the drawing board, clearly the conclusion was a resounding "eh, ######### this"
They would've been far better off saying nothing when reworking moris. False hope is always worse. Instead they're the ones who cemented that definite relationship where keys = moris by highlighting both and acknowledging they're usually cheap as hell. Yet they abruptly changed one toot sweet and let the other linger on indefinitely in a rather clear sign of indifference anyhow.
Meanwhile... even though they gimped moris, you still can't have fun with them because the community regards them exactly like the old ones. You bring a mori (or something that might be one) and players still start rushing gens like they're regressing out of style... but now its just the 2nd hook where they suicide to spite you.
I actually love keys for all the crazy add-ons. I kinda wish they'd just make keys non-hatch-opening when using (most) add-ons and change it so killers can tell the dull keys from working ones that are all shiny gold, I can use all my cool stuff without instantly (and pretty understandably) being tunneled.
If they ever change anything though, they'll probably just make it a one-man escape only. (Just meaning all four players need a key for that achievement). Or some similar quick-fix that they could've changed years ago.
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@valvarez4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072431#Comment_2072431
Sure, with a 65-75% of kill rate including SWF this game is balanced against solos
I'm breaking up my posts into chapters these days.
I: Of Flat Rate Morgue-ages
The kill rates will always be that high--especially in the red ranks--because if they weren't that high killers wouldn't pip up in the first place... meaning players with lower stats wouldn't be in the higher ranks to ever be counted in that data. This leaves us with--you guessed it--the exact same kill rates.
You need 3Ks to pip as a red rank killer (and that's still not guaranteed). As a survivor, you don't even need to survive. Hell, you can pip from an AFK killer.
That whole "50% survival rate!!" is literally impossible to maintain according to the game's own scoring demands. Or it's at least impossible without counting on low ranks to absorb non-stop 4-man escapes enough to compensate for the kills required to reach/maintain higher ranks--but you certainly can't expect many new killers would stick around for long in those conditions. Then again--maybe that's exactly what the devs expect of new players, and the source of many problems...
Just don't pretend the survival rates reflect the game's balance. Don't pretend that solo players can't (and don't) stomp killers if they're competent at generator efficiency. Don't pretend that team wipeout stats aren't boosted by total potatoes, quitters, and SWFs dicking around (especially given that most quickly realize how simply escaping becomes incredibly boring and easy when you're already stacking the deck with the cheating-level advantage of voice-coms)
II: Like A "Who Done It?" Without The Who
If you want a metric that really suggests this game's primary imbalance & target for adjustment, try considering the actual player rates for both game modes. You'll discover largely that... NOBODY ######### WANTS TO PLAY KILLER!
It only takes one killer player for every four survivors already. Were the modes equally popular/balanced/fun, we can infer that killer queues should run roughly 4x as long. But they aren't even equal to survivor queues. They're roughly 4x faster. Obviously side influences affect player rates too, but the raw extent of that gap is the damning implication that cannot be ignored.
In DBD, we've got one mode that's a lot more fun, besting, and where "losing" can still be "winning." We've got another mode that's a lot more tense, belittling, and where "winning" can still be "losing." Hell, consider how many people would never touch killer at all if not for dailies & tomes (which I suspect might includes you here too).
III: Being Mindful Of Hives
Also, because I've seen a lot of "killer hivemind!" silliness in this thread, I'll say this: there's always a persecution complex when you're heavily distorted by the inverse of whatever bias you perceive. Any opinions expressed by one of "them" constitutes the whole voice of "the others!", so it's always an institution united in some overwhelming (naturally hypocritical) push for dominance rather than ever recognizing the multitude of individual--even contradictory--POVs out there. "Persecution" and "bias" aren't arguments in and of themselves; weaponizing them as such is just a convenient means to dismiss logic you might otherwise recognize if you actually engaged.
If you find that forum suggestions here lean towards improving the killer gameplay experience, that's not exactly some big "killer mains secretly run these forums, & the media, & international banking!!!" conspiracy. People here predominantly play both halves of this game, and each voices the problems & potential solutions as they perceive them. And they even don't agree on which aspects are which there. As it happens though, the general shared sentiment (something is rotten in the killer fields) only reflects what we're seeing expressed by player rates & preferences here already.
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I'm 100% sure that's what they're going for.
They said "what killer thing can we do next?" and looked at the archetype for suave psychopath like Patrick Bateman or the whatshisface interpretation of the Joker with grillz.
Hence the worst ######### name in the world "The Trickster" when that says nothing about him, his powers, his characterization or anything except the fact their original design inspiration was "some Joker ripoff thing".
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2069240#Comment_2069240
Lol, i did have that idea myself: To just make it impossible to earn for a few days, enough to make PS go like: "Well #########, guess you can change it then."
Btw, earning Adept has never been tied to killing all 4, they never changed the way to earn Adept itself.
To earn Adept, you have to get the perfect score of Merciless Killer.
HOW you earn Merciless Killer is what's changed.
First it was by earning full BP in all 4 categories, then it was to kill all 4, now it's to earn high enough in your Emblems.
Basically, you always needed to rank up as well as possible in a trial with just the 3 Perks to earn Adepts, the conditions are what have been changing over time.
Survivor Adepts have escaped this by never having such a message at the end of a trial, only escape or die.
This is why part of why I reject the "blame sony!" point as a total copout.
The devs could 100% work around this by just changing the name of the merciless category (double pipping) into something like "entity extra super duper pleased!" , and just make "merciless killer" a sub-status result that indicates whether it was a 4k or not.
It's "Entity displeased" or with a 4k it's "Entity displeased (merciless killer!)" and same for say "Brutal killer (merciless killer!)"! and whatever the new category gets labeled: "Entity wet AF 4 u (merciless killer!)"
Hell, I'm pretty sure they could just change the ######### trigger conditions in a patch without anyone's permission since the actual text of the achievement just stays the same even if its technically wrong. It's just flawed to activate from 4ks too.
That trophy for escaping with only one down is actually bugged in a way where only one PERSON can be downed in the match before you escape for it to count. Seems like that should be an easy fix, but nope. If they can ######### the game so the achievements don't trigger in the right conditions accidentally, they can certainly fix the game to activate other achievements in the "wrong" conditions where it just says merciless even though 4k works too.
The other reason I reject "blame sony!" as the end-all is because other games have pushed through trophy changes less impactful on PS consoles without that impossible standard. It might require persistence and going through a lot of red-tape, but it can and has been done. I just get the impression they don't want to bother with the hassle.
BHVR doesn't really seem to care about the achievements beyond tossing new ones out to lure people who do care back. Now "Killing From The Void" and "Last Man Standing" trophies are so damn ridiculous because they just pushed through whatever game play changes without considering how that turns those achievements from pretty hard things to maddening to pull off in a real match.
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Are the people getting tunneled wearing decisive strike?
In my experience, no.
Everyone ditched it and now they're actually tunneled where it legit still would've protected them. People stopped using (which is a really bad idea when it still represents a free end-game escape potentially) and killers know it.
EVERYONE can't eject it from their build immediately and still expect the fear of DS to do the job for you.
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a few Anecdotes
Since the virtue of chat keeps coming up, I figure I'd detail some of my own experiences even if I'm kinda hitting a side point to a side point here. [My deal here is more I don't even want to have what other people say to me censored. I want the right to hear what they've got to say as they've really got to say it. I still think they should be punished for crossing the lines--because thats how this community gets better--but covering up that toxicity with stickers doesn't cancel it or the impact out.]
I know my anecdotal experience that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme, but I feel like details some specific encounters might illuminate the sort of environment that can/does also exist out there too.
In a pretty recent match where I got stomped to hell by rank 1 survivors that I finally just popped the gates after I missed hit after hit and--despite going into end-game with all four injured--all ended up healed while I felt swarmed by loops in a maze. Still had to wait the full timer as two just stuck around. The PC players each respectfully offered GGS and one went out of the way to explain they would've normally left immediately too but were waiting on the console player for that "let x escape first" challenge. Waiting wasn't even a frustration to me at that point, it was still nice knowing that conscious thought was there and it wasn't an overkill/taunting thing just to rub salt in a wound from them.
Hell, awhile back I straight up DC'd as a killer mid-match after a legitimately terrible day (in the matches, but more-so outside the game). I jumped in chat right away to just declare "######### it, I concede, ######### match, shittier day" basically. But instead of the flames & harassment I'd anticipated, the others left silently while one talked with me empathetically just saying they get it and its like that sometimes where you get a bad streak going and its better to just step away for awhile. I'd quit that game knowing I was done for the day already, but I walked away feeling better than I would've because of that interaciton.
For a survivor side example, just a few days ago I got teamed up with this obnoxious 3-man group from console who spent the match bullying the killer in coordination. I was the only one who ended up getting 3rd hooked before the gates popped (actually, that was me being sandbagged too). Still, I related my sympathies to the killer (I brought up their behavior, killer was classy pure GG's only there) and we talked for a bit. He could even tell I wasn't with them, and said he'd only killed me at the end to keep from depping that match. It hadn't bothered me anyhow, but still it was a positive line of communication between survivor and killer who both had mediocre matches. Those sorts of exchanges are actually super common for me, but not a lot to remark on there since it's usually just "ah its cool killer, I get it" or friendly advice and stories run the same course.
Sometimes even the negative interactions can end up positives though. In another killer match I was just a total jerkass. No excuses. It was a lame move on my part tunneling this guy right out of the game (and they ended up deranking) for no reason except I was grumpy at someone else. I'd kept hooking/camping them hoping the obsession (perpetually urban evasion'ing around the swamp) would do the rescue. But nope, so I just iced the guy in frustration. Understandably a bad match for him, and he had some pretty colorful insults afterward. Here's the thing though: he wasn't wrong. While I tried to explain, apologized, and agreed it was BS, it's also just part of the game; so I wasn't particularly torn up about it beyond recognizing it was a dick move on my part. But I could tell it wasn't about the match. When chat cut off, he even friended me on steam to keep reiterating his frustration--and I accepted, because something told me this guy really needed to vent and the insults weren't an issue to me. He kept trying to get a rise out of me--even escalating to some pretty racist stuff--but that only made his fronting all the more obvious. So, I kept listening and calmly chatting from a place of understanding until the conversation cooled. Guy really just needed an outlet for depression & life's frustrations, and I was there, so I did what I could.
Lastly, I'm thinking of a circumstance that really covers both ends of the chat spectrum. The match got me "entity displeased!" since all 4 escaped, but I still had a blast & actually thought everyone else had too. Yet into chat and here comes two of the most stereotypical salty cereal rank 1's ever just going on & on about tunneling them and ggez crap. It totally caught me off-guard. Never once did I even consider "arrg gotta get this guy!!", I just chased whoever I found until hooked or lost. (Hell, they were SWF buddies with the same damn outfit, so I didn't even know which I was chasing most of the time). If anything, I would've thought this other player to shout "tunnelz!!" since I spent far more time chasing them around than either of the others. (And never even saw the 4th player until end game after that very 1st generator). Yet, those other two players were actively defending me against the SWF tossing out every insult in the book because... hell, I don't really know. It was some pretty nasty stuff though. Still--having those other two players backing me up though to reiterate I hadn't done anything wrong & clarifying that it really was the sort of match for them that I'd thought it was did pull a lot of the sting away from that experience.
Really the most upsetting thing is how this otherwise really enjoyable match gets retroactively spoiled with "nah ######### you #########" revealing a current of spite actually flowed the whole instead. Even those rare fun times in this game can get flipped on their heads by the toxic personalities that BHVR lets run rampant across chat. (And a word filter isn't even a placebo for that, just security theater that feels incredibly asinine and restricts my own expression/identity). Those other players did stand up for me though, and independently said they'd both given me props and reported the SWF players (but I'm sure BHVR didn't do a damn thing about it, otherwise the red rank wouldn't also contain the highest number of toxic and mean-spirited players). The ultimate impression was still one of those "I should quit this terrible game" toxicity moments due to the intensity, yet there's a clear silver lining that I can't ignore either. I do like knowing those people exist out there in this game too and it's not all as bad as it usually feels.
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@Dwigtht said:
I've been playing this game since 2019. With 2011 hours on the record. During all this time I have not found anything useful in the game chat. There was no single case when survivors wanted to give me any good advice or say something useful. Instead most of the time someone complained about how could I kill them or advice me to kill myself. That was the times at the beginning of my killer career. At the beginning it wasn't pleasant at all. So I believe it would be much better for the game to remove post game chat at all.
Of course, now after some time, I've grown a thicker skin. I have opened my steam profile for public comments and really enjoying reading new ones. Now I think those comments are supper funny and I am collecting them. But for the benefit of the newer players, I would rather just remove the post game chat.
That's really unfortunate. I'll admit I do feel somewhat more relaxed in cross-play matches where I know no one can ######### at me for being a bad survivor or bad killer after the match (well occasionally people playing from microsoft whatever mode who show up as 3rd party but can still chat anyhow), though I don't know if I'd want chat gone entirely. (But cross-play I 100% assume exit gate teabagging 'cause of that though)
I also consider chat to be largely negative, and belief its the tipping factor for real abusiveness in this game, where already frustrating matches transform into genuinely taxing & infuriating encounters with downright vile, cruel people over such a trivial thing. However, in my experience, its the intensity of those moments (combined with even more but briefer negativity of "######### you camper!" or "ggez lol!" comments left at that) souring the chat & game itself overall with that feeling of excessive toxicity to the point you want to uninstall.
Thinking back to my most recent chats, the actual majority of my experiences are more neutral (customary ggs) or even downright positive with comments & compliments exchanged after the game. I've ended up with a people on my friends that were the killer when I was survivor, and survivors where I was the killer. I've even received & given apologies for things that might have seemed ######### at the time. (ie "sorry for early tunnel there. obsession challenge" or "got pig mori daily :-/"). Not that those things inherently require apologies, just that I've encountered many situations where something that wasn't so fun in the game at the time had some weight pulled off it by connecting in chat with the other-side to realize they're playing the game for a game too & its all chill for them too. I mean, ideally that sort of understanding would be the great majority instead of that exception it feels good to encounter, but its certainly a good feeling where it does occur.
I set my steam profile to friends only specifically because of this game though too, and that's pretty much a reminder that its not just the chat that's toxic and its how it extends outside the game that really sucks too. Really, I just wish BHVR would get serious about fighting toxicity for real by keeping chat-logs, checking reports, and punishing players that cross the line (more than just black/white bigotry words, actually using reasonable discretion to target the people who make this game feel miserable) with things like blocking them from chat, in game suspensions, even banning if necessary. I hate their duct tape solutions and this absolutely one of them.
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@cheetocultleader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061099#Comment_2061099
Uh.... hopefully they plan to revise what all is included...
I'd rather have it optional myself. Let people who are bothered by profanity leave it on, and the rest of us leave if off.
What's crazy is there's just literally no reason it shouldn't/couldn't be optional. Not a single one. I've been trying to play devil's advocate against myself and I got nothing.
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Typical BHVR solution. Six inches forward. Five inches back.
And now I'm left with an angry inch. A ######### angry inch.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2053584#Comment_2053584
Why exactly are those toxic? Could you explain it a bit with some valid arguments?
People already have. Taunting the other player has always been the opposite of good sportsmanship, and a failure of empathy. That's the definition of toxic.
If you actually follow your own logic, it just as strategic to be insulting in chat & BM players outside the game since they might remember you & be flustered in the next match too. Hey, maybe they even quit & you never have to face them again. The ultimate victory! Truth is... it's just childish as hell.
That's what children do in a games until their coach calls them a dumbass and makes them run laps next practice, because that's the sort of thing childhood spots & teamwork are meant to teach you about. Same reason everyone lines up to mumble "good game" to each other 30 times after the match whether you win or lose, blowout or nail-biter.
People love to pretend that taunting is a thing in the real world and accepted as normal, but it's really not. In an actual professional, that sort of thing results in both gameplay penalties against your team and personal punishment in with monetary fines upwards of $10,000.
If you want some psychological edge that flusters and intimidates the other players strategically, then you play with composure--that's playing well and making it look effortless and expected. You never insult and belittle others in ways intended to minimize their experience and turn something that's meant to be fun competition into an act of bullying and frustration.
You never need to actually BM the killers to get them to chase you. You deflect them by putting yourself in a seemingly vulnerable position while you've actually got a plan. As a matter of fact, 'strategic' taunting is specifically such a ######### up thing because it's only going to work on the people genuinely having a bad time already--making a miserable experience that much more insulting--while its not going to do anything for people with the upper hand & experience who won't fall for it. It's just laser focused bullying where empathy and sportsmanship should thrive most. That's toxic as #########.
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Man. I desperately want a 5th perk slot to happen.
Shake up the game already. More potential for crazy builds and variety. Get some former players back again to see what that looks like.
This game has an insane amount of perks for the 4 slots you get & it's such a shame that so many are just left behind because they're only good and not great. Even that tiny bit more wiggle room to toss in something fun massively helps.
Obviously a lot of the pure meta players will just add another meta perk--but that's the status quo anyway. We get the same boring metas match to match already. Might as well just remove perks if that's too much of a problem. At the very least, that 5th perk would freshen things up for a while.
While it's almost certainly gonna screw balance in some ways with new crazy combinations, that's kinda what makes it so exciting and fun. Any truly problematic combos that emerge can be adjusted as needed later.
And now I'm going to the issue it always comes back to... it's not like this game has ever been balanced anyway. They actively disregard the most colossal balancing divide in the game: voice communication. At best they'll slap a band-aid on one of the many gaping wounds, but they'll never fight the disease. Players genuinely have the all-clear to exploit voice-communication despite how that totally bastardizes the normal gameplay assumptions & conditions by eliminating so much of that inherent risk/chaos that defines the gameplay. More powerful than any ten perks and exclusive to one side of the game, it's de-facto cheating that's de-jure fair game.
It's literally impossible to ever balance this game as long as it shrugs off how total/instant communication & coordination isn't even in the same ######### ballpark as their game designed assuming player isolation save for their few info perks & whatever they can mime out by pointing at the time. In the real matches you can't even ######### type messages at your own peril to each other--but it's all "whatever" to the devs already.
So ######### it. Might as well do something fun and fresh in the meantime, and that 5th perk introduces a lot of (good) chaos to both halves of this game. It's exciting as hell.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2050577#Comment_2050577
Yeah with the new rank system that’s how it sounds like it’s gonna be, and that’s fine.
But the OP is talking about the current system. He says 2 kills is balanced so basically a draw, but he thinks he should rank up for drawing? Doesn’t really make sense
So survivors shouldn't rank when they die?
(Wait devs no! Don't do it! I'm only posing a hypothetical to point out that its not treated like that consistently & takes a very reductive metric of success--tossing out a complicated scoring system in favor of basically win/lose/draw--that majorly steps back from shift to emblems and promotes worse game design)
The 2 kills per match thing is the statistical average that the devs want to balance the game around, but it's not really possible to pip in red ranks at those stats.
To pip that's 13/16 emblems. With a 2K, at best you're getting a silver in devout as far as I know. That leaves a perfect score in two other categories and a gold for the other 11 emblems needed. Since malicious and devout are so heavily tied to hook-states, that's pretty much gonna require hooking everyone multiple times at least. It's hypothetically possible I think, but an incredibly unlikely scenario in a game that's so snowball heavy. Basically any game where you'd pip from only 2 kills is a game you're playing at a level that'd normally give you 2 pips if not for some minor misstep or reversal of fortune at the end like a key/bug/strategic abandonment/etc.
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That whole "but red ranks have 70% kill rate when it should be 50%!" talking point has always been out of touch.
There's a logical disconnect between their statistical ideal & the actual scoring metrics used to the point that literally cannot happen. Realistically, no one averaging a 50% kill rate could actually REMAIN in the red ranks.
If you try to rebalance the game to lower red kill rates toward 2ks, that just pushes the people out who aren't getting the 70% kill rates. That leaves only the ones who can still get those 3/4ks still despite whatever nerfs/reworks/bugs are added... meaning the total red rank kill rates stay around... you guessed it... 70%. Because otherwise they wouldn't be red rank killers!
The only other variable changed? The red ranks end up even sweatier for everyone than they are already. Hooray.
Do the devs even realize that? They should at least set the pip point requirement for survivors and killers at the same amount (where a double pip at 15 instead of requiring 16, a perfect game). This game/community is already way too ######### sweaty as it is.
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@Munqaxus said:
We can see the Killer bias on the forums, which is why the forums are no indication of what should be changed. Even though survivor makes up 4/5s of the player base and Killers only make up 1/5 it appears the Killers make up a lot more of the forum goers.
That original post about "SURVIVORS GO DODODO BUT KILLERS GO DUHDUDHUDH" was incredibly ridiculous to begin with, but you've actually managed to top it with an even more ludicrous take.
Most people here play both sides of this game. But even many who don't still want the game to be good and recognize that both halves make the whole. They don't apply that childish "US VS THEM" lens you're perceiving this game through, where you think mere "survivor gud!" is inherently something "survivors" should up vote compared to a post that's not even the inverse--just calling out their ridiculous double standard commentary.
However, there are indeed "survivor bias!" and "killer bias!" people on this forum still. Just not the majority. They're usually not hard to spot--it's always the ones with a mega persecution complex ranting about "the other side" keeping them down.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045250#Comment_2045250
Like I said I understand the certain times that DS is used when the survivor is not being tunneled.
I'm slugging not because I'm worried about DS if they have it up or not it's to give me some time to get more hooks. Maybe it's not fun for them but I'm still allowing them to get picked up.
We all play differently
GG GL
Ah I guess I misinterpreted the acknowledgement that DS is still something to be concerned/proactive about whether you're camping/tunneling or not. I ended up reading the emphasis on why you're slugging & on playing the game differently as a redirection to semantics (rather than just elaborating your own gameplay style) when that would basically wrap back around to the starting concern of people advocating that "just don't tunnel lol" stuff despite knowing all those "oh that's what I get for tunneling" situations.
GGS
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045184#Comment_2045184
Exactly go after others
And I'm slugging to create pressure 1 slug 1 being chased one of the two have to get off the gen to heal, and if I down the one being chased the other has to go for the unhooking. The way I play is different then you and others play that's one of the reasons I don't have a problem with DS.
I gave up on ranking up and all that a long time ago I don't care if they all escape or I get a 4K I play to have fun and try to make the match enjoyable.
I do understand the problem that you and lot have with DS. So why can't you understand I don't have a problem with DS.
Okay you go after others: you hit the healthy rescuer and the speed boost takes them out the gates too, so they all escaped anyhow. Congrats?
The part I'm taking offense with enough to keep replying isn't that you're not bothered by DS. I long ago stopped taking it personally & just accept it as a fact of life too. My own response is the same sarcastic nonchalance "oh that's what I get for tunneling" as most everyone else. The issue I'm raising is how you're promoting this fiction that it's ONLY because you're tunneling/camping when that's objectively not true, or you wouldn't ever need to slug in the first place (which sure as hell ain't fun for survivors either).
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2044969#Comment_2044969
No it's true and it's your fault for picking someone up knowing that they were just on the hook a few seconds ago. I don't have a problem with DS like so many do. If I know they were just on the hook I slug them and go after someone else.
I keep track of my targets know when they were hook last who hasn't been hooked try to keep the match fun and enjoyable as possible. Instead of camping and tunneling players out of the match and then coming to the forums and complaining about DS.
No. You said "just go after others & you don't have to worry!" which is objectively false. The fact you're slugging people when relevant IS you worrying about DS and actively aware of the situation.
You know sixty seconds isn't "a few" and that its still easy to organically end up in that situation without camping/tunneling people out of the game, so don't pretend like it isn't. If it weren't, you wouldn't need to be slugging anyone the first place...
And, by the way, slugging still won't do a damn thing in those end-game scenarios with a deliverance/last minute rescue. DS won't be as bad elsewhere after the nerf, but it's still a weapon (and the OP is clearly just venting about a recent match where its just as strong). You'll still get to watch survivors either slowly crawl out on their bellies or actively help them run out the gates so you can get the match over that much faster. Because you're the big bad killer who can't stop someone literally bleeding to death from escaping by shoving your foot in their back.
There's a difference between what you said (effectively "its easy peasy & not a thing!") and accepting those situations as "welp I'm #########" (which you are) and not caring/complaining. Don't pretend it's only a thing because you're camping and tunneling. It's not. You know that.
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@I_am_Negan said:
Learn how to go after others, and you don't have to worry about DS.
Why do people keep saying ######### like this when it's objectively false? I seriously do not get it.
I know it's false. You know it's false. Even after the perk rework, it will still be objectively false--because DS is still active in those end-game scenarios with few survivors left (literally just one at times) and where you're organically hooking multiple players in quick succession without "tunneling" a damn one.
Still, every ######### comment section is a flood of "counter: don't tunnel lol!" originality. It's like some mantra empowered by chanting in succession. Even some people reading this very post will still jump at the next jambroni to wander in here complaining about a bad match with a BS DS to offer up this sage advice.
It's just not true. Killers should always be conscious of DS whether tunneling or not. Dropping your guard over DS because you "don't tunnel" will only bite you in the ass all those times you're not still tunneling but liable to get smacked down by it anyhow unless paying attention. [And this + free end-game escape potential are exactly why everyone and their mama will still keep running DS even after the nerf finally launches.]
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@[Deleted User] said:
I would also like to point out that on the PTB there were some critical bugs like the fact Hex Ruin right now just....doesn't work....like at all.
Also you couldn't restock hatchets as huntress, so she was also unplayable.
Like most of them were known issues but I mean, if they are not fixed the update cannot go live lol. Again, I just wish they would START TALKING WITH US like holy cow bhvr hates communication so much.
Probably got their chat windows turned off
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I FINALLY accomplished this a few days ago after trying for months (off & on, as the opportunity presents itself).
It wasn't even the build I'd planned, since I switched out to a David at the last second to fit with a random meme party and just had whatever perks equipped. Actually ended up being a pretty damn fun game against Deathslinger. The achievement hadn't even crossed my mind that match until I saw it---the perfect opening. There I was with the last generator at 95% and the last David just downed for a death hook on the other side of the map.
I didn't have a clue where hatch was, but he did get downed near shack.... so my big fear (as always has been in planning) is that killer snapping it shut before I can snap that last generator. The second flat I see that POOF "dead and off to heaven" cloud, I pop that mother hard.
I'm even right next to the gate! I had no idea! But unfortunately, the other gate wasn't far off, and the area a total dead zone. I knew I'd have to play it crazy stealthy.... in my Halloween David outfit with orange glowy shirt. That didn't fly. Slinger spotted me after maybe 20 seconds. Thinking quickly... I offered up my toolbox as a bribe and pointed at the gates in pathetic desperation. Luckily, he accepted!
At maybe 3 seconds left on gate, the ######### snatched me right off of it onto his shoulders. Yet... he seemingly changed his mind and only walked a little bit, before letting me wiggle off. I slowly walk back to the gate, knowing my life isn't mine anymore anyhow. Its just "will he" or "won't he." Success! The gates open and I'm on my... BAM. Shot in the back and reeled out of there before I can cross. Downed. I don't know what the call is, but I'm gunning it out the gates on my belly. And he didn't interfere.
He was just ######### with me. Hardcore ######### with me, but ######### with me nevertheless.
I MADE IT!!!!
And then... and then.... and then....
NOTHING ######### HAPPENED!!! NOOOOOOOOOOTHING!!! NO ACHIEVEMENT. NOTHING.
IT DIDNT ######### REGISTER! AND I DONT HAVE A MOTHER ######### CLUE WHY!!!
SON OF A #########! YOU HAVE TO ######### BE KIDDING ME!!! I ######### KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU MOTHER #########! GOD ######### DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
...
And that was the second most frustrating of all my attempts so far.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2040117#Comment_2040117
If it makes you feel better I'm a PC Player that uses an Xbox controller because I hate playing by keyboard. I find the controller far more intuitive for myself. I do sacrifice the ability for those crazy spin turns though. :)
Samesies.
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Is it really that crazy that a couple of killers can be powerful enough in the hands of skilled players to change the dynamic around (where survivor success depends on the killer making mistakes rather than the status quo everywhere else where killer success requires skilled survivors messing up)?
I just don't get why every killer has to offer the same experience.
Hell, even if it were a problem in the game, I'm not really seeing what warrants attention above a hundred more pressing concerns about core DBD issues that deserve a look. People aren't exactly lining up around to the block to play killer these days anyhow, even strong ones with low skill floors.
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######### I can't even hear footsteps 75% of the time.
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Truth is "Dead by Daylight" isn't a very good game.
Brilliant concept, amazing potential, but there's a total disconnect between the experience envisioned and the product that exists today. And seemingly, little or no desire or ambition to actually fix the core issues or realize that potential. It's mostly about maintaining course and DLC injections.
There's a serious gap with the game's intended atmosphere/aesthetics from the actual gameplay experience manifested to the extent you're not really stalking and hunting like some iconic movie monster, you're playing defense against a bunch of tweens trying to vandalize your generators.
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Clown should jiggle
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Legion. Without a doubt, Legion.
"Let down" being defined here as high expectations and disappointing results, then for sure.
The aspect that's a "let down" about The Twins was the forced release. I'll stand by the concept as amazing, risk-taking, and innovative until the day I die. Some people may not like playing as or against them--or the character models used--but I'd so much rather have killers that add something unique instead of playing it safe like Trickster. There wasn't so much promotion and even then it was just "think its one crazy thing" only to end up being "totally different crazy thing"
Meanwhile, looking back at the Legion release.. all those promos were amazing and just so much potential and crazy concepts floating around only to kinda be nothing and do nothing. Its kinda telling how many times theyve had to rework the gang.
edit: Oh my Gods, and their lore. The lore... oh my Gods. They killed a ######### janitor.... Get them away from my horror movie Gods.
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@Dustin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984885#Comment_1984885
If I want to tunnel someone to death I'm going to always remember how many hooks they have - Usually it's when I try to 2 hook everyone where I forget. I won't ever forget if I want a survivor to die. If I want that survivor dead they're going to die. If anything I'm more likely to tunnel not being able to remember who I've not hooked yet.
Legit a hook counter will only help people play nicer it's not going to encourage tunneling anymore than it already happens.
Thissss.
I don't need a counter to tunnel. One hook. Two hook. Death hook free. That's what Steve gets for bringing a key.
It's only when I'm trying to 12 hook and lose track of whether someone was on that 1st or 2nd stage that gets me killing people too fast (or forgetting there was that one person I slugged earlier but didnt end up hooking).
This is ESPECIALLY TRUE if they have a ######### team who lets them fall into that 2nd hook stage without me noticing. I ain't watching that #########.
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As killer:
Just one? Not really. I might try to go light on a survivor if I think they brought it, but not worth farming. For 2 or more? Sure, might as well.
As survivor:
If the killer drops one and/or indicates they want to? Sure why not. Anyone else? Well that's still gonna be the killers call. Not exactly a whole lot of choice beyond maybe leaving that last gen up for longer than usual.
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@ttvbardberd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2026973#Comment_2026973
You made a fair argument, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Take my Vote up sir.
Thank you. I appreciate you hearing me out even if your position remains the same.
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@ttvbardberd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2026925#Comment_2026925
You guys are having a discussion more about whether the streamer your up against cries about it, when that isn't really what the topic is about.
You can stream snipe as much as you want, no one is going to stop you, and yes you're absolutely right about it being broadcast to the ENTIRE WORLD (big of an exaggeration but oh well)
It is still cheating though. It's not bannable, sure, but it's cheating. SWF is not cheating, as it's a built in game mechanic. Pulling someone's stream open isn't.
The problem is the people not acknowledging that it's cheating.
Tournaments get broadcasted, but you don't see the players opening the actual stream to get advantage do you? Like this entire argument doesn't make any sense.
SWF isn't cheating, voice-communication is. There is no built in voice-com mechanics.
You're using an outside program to gain a significant competitive advantage in this game that artificially boosts the team's performance beyond their capabilities in real operating conditions.
In a normal game you can't tell someone where a totem is. You can't say if someone is coming for a save. You can't say trap right there. Yet any of these small thing early on could be the pivot point for the game snowballing or not.
Voice chat isn't just one of those bits given freely. It's a thousand small changes under the guise of "well I can press m1 and juke just like a normal game" without recognizing the real impact that makes.
You can't wipe out so much of the chaos and uncertainty which defines this game and still argue that you're playing the game as its designed to be played. Survivors are not meant to be coordinating or communicating beyond their their limited perk selection and rudimentary pointing. The difference is ######### monumental.
Truth is, VC is an advantage over normal players (ie, compared to the same team without that crutch) that's about as significant as an aimbot or wallhack in an FPS.
It is cheating de-facto no matter what the developers say until they either include it for real or balance around it in a way that takes account for the massive difference between a game where plays have zero coordination/communication and one where the players have total communication/coordination.
Yet.... voice chat is allowed nevertheless. Same way stream sniping is allowed according to the official rules. Personally, I would call them both cheating and prefer both be eliminated. But to think of one as cheating and the other crossing some line... pure hypocrisy. There's no getting around it. It's simply delusional.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2026915#Comment_2026915
"end of discussion" lmao yea stream sniping those killers to equip perks that counter what they use, heckin voice chatting killer mains.
this forum is hilarious.
That's not even an argument.
I normally make incredibly detailed posts that go through all the issues there are to consider.
There aren't any considerations here. You can't be cool with using voice-coms in this game if you've got a problem with someone stream sniping. It's hypocritical beyond belief.
End of discussion. Anything left is people being pissed that their own disregard for fair play is thrown back at them.