Ecstasy
Ecstasy
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The resolution stuff s lame, but I genuinely can't even imagine anyone getting worked up about it when its somehow a fact of life that any given match might involve players with instant communication and shared information in a game entirely balanced & designed around the fact that players have none of that.
Voice communication may not be cheating according to the devs, but its certainly de-facto cheating. The plethora of advantages so throughouhgly and effortlessly blast any otherwise balanced match out of the water that it just seems preposterous to me ever caring the slightest bit about res-stretching first.
I'm not making that usual fallacy that you can't care about two things, or that only optimal improvements are worth pursuing. I'm pointing out the impact of stretching is so marginal to the point of absurdity compared to the issue & cheating that plagues every faucet of this game.
Every breath spent on res-scratching instead of addressing the voice com cancer is like... focusing on a paper cut while you bleed out on the floor from being shanked.
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I know what you mean.... uh... well, I know what the title means. Those specifics don't feel like much of a nicety or a slight either way IMO.
I was just in a match goofing around to get the hag teleport challenge, and ended up in a nice basement devastation scenario. Their eager beaver Bill hardcore screwed their Adam rescue from his second hook. By the time Claudette got him off that hook, I ended up downing him right there just trying to thwack her. Naturally instead of taking that easy 2 seconds for the full kill, I'd just left him there so someone else could heal while I went after their fumbling Bill for his second hooking.
With Bill delivered to Adam's old hang-out, I didn't even bother trapping the basement again for him. Of the 3 survivors hoovering I'd just double hooked 2 of them and didn't want to accidentally finish anyone off in the heat of things. Instead, I focused on the other side of the map looking for (what turned out to be a rank 2) Nancy who'd been doing most all of the gens that match. But before I snagged her, the others popped that last gen, so went on over to the exit gate.
I wanted to make sure I was safe for the challenge, so I ran off their eager beaver Bill from opening the gate (didn't even bother swinging) and I tossed down some extra traps. Nancy eventually ended up heading that way and plowed into that full row of traps. I'm not sure if that was intent or accident, but either way, that was exactly what I needed. So, I showed my thanks and intentions by opening up the exit gate for her/them. I knew the others were lurking with that usual bit of hesitation, so I turned my back and started drawing more signs on the ground in a circle randomly in wait.
They still hadn't left yet when the Exit Timer was hitting about half-way, so I peaked around to see if they wanted a hit to heal or something
But what did mine eyes reveal unto me?
The bumbling Bill, of course!
The rest ran off, but old Bill is triumphantly tea-bagging me here with pure glee & satisfaction at foiling my nefarious plans with his mad skillz.
Oy vey. At least the others got it, I think...
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May not be the best buff in the world, but there's certainly no question that 2.0 is better than 1.0 in very material ways by providing those extra opportunities to stack and providing an game function(and a pretty damn useful one at that).
That said, it seems like the best/easiest change would be changing it to give the stacks on Death heals too. Otherwise the actual game usage ends up up contradicting them sweet sweet points, where the more self-interested survivor might as well let you get hooked for the stacks rather than bother with the near death heal anyhow.
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Status Effect: Pathetic.
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"If two people are left and there is no chance of winning, then it's respectful to DC so the other person can get the hatch."
Status Effect: Poor Sportsmanship
"First off, there's no reason not to be selfish. Second of all, as a survivor you're part of a team. If you can help someone get out on your team, that is selfless. Thirdly this has nothing to do with abuse. If you feel abused from video games you should not be buying nor playing them. Grow up."
Status Effect: Rationalization.
Obviously if there are other options then use them but sometimes there aren't. It is extremely common for me to be slugged at the end game and just sit there doing nothing while my teammate could be going for hatch. It's actually penalizing that teammate because the killer now has an unfair lead on looking for hatch.
Status Effect: Premeditation.
"If a survivor feels they have to DC in order to save a teammate or not be staring at a slug for five minutes then that's the game's fault-not anyone else's. Maybe stop slugging the third person because you desperately crave that final kill."
Status Effect: Apologism.
So if I slug them and let them bleed out to death every game, that's fair? And what the actual [BAD WORD] is the point of the hatch if I can just bypass it like that? It's a direct contravention to a game mechanic. This is basically systemic toxicity and probably the main reason why this game has unparalleled rage quitting.
Status Effect: Denial.
TransverseCaster Posts: 239
"I never did. Show me a single point where I said that other people("advocate") should be doing this("cheating"). Never happened. Doesn't exist"
Status Effect: Oblivious.
Status Effect: Delusional.
Status Effect: Deceptive.
Status Effect: Shameless.
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Status Effect: Paranoia
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Status Effect: Projection
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646804#Comment_1646804
"No, I'd someone feels something is wrong, that does *not* entitle them to violate those standards. Otherwise I could argue I could murder someone"
DCing is not the same as murder lol
And DCing so someone can get a hatch is like jumping on a grenade so they can live.
"GAWSH! I"M NOT ADVOCATING CHEATING.... IT'S JUST AN INCREDIBLY NOBLE SACRIFICE!!!"
Please just stop already. Your whole crusade is intellectually dishonest, delusional, or both. Whatever sly insinuations you think you're getting away with.... you're not. Everyone keeps calling you out for advocating cheating because that's what you're doing, albeit with the incredibly petty style of a child hovering their hands a centimeter over you and going "OH! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!!!"
For whatever reason, you can't distinguish between actions and behaviors within the game's context (ones also explicitly approved) from those trying to affect the game from outside that in-game context (ones also explicitly prohibited as clarified to you officially now). That's... weird, but whatever. The part that's really screwy (aside from the persecution complex) is that you still refuse to walk away at that point like an adult and simply agree you disagree with the standards. In a brazen sense of entitlement, you're ridiculously invoking the language of civil disobedience and moral standing to rationalize an act of FLIPPING THE GAMEBOARD OVER.
I'm just going to repeat what I'd already said last time, because this is the point where you should've stopped. And stopped. And stopped:
Regardless, it all ultimately comes down to this: if you can't accept the gameplay that exists as it does, then the only adult decision is that you shouldn't play. You don't take it into your own hands to disconnect when you get slugged. That is exactly like taking the ball home and boo-hoo-hooing all the way home. Just like we started with. Just like this conversation will end up with. Because that's what it is. You may never agree with that, but the rules of this game certainly gel with that comparison. If you didn't know that slugging was acceptable before, you do now. So, until you can change the rules, please abide by the game that exists in goodfath or make that mature decision not to play.
Please heed your own advice and grow up. This is beyond ridiculous.
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@TransverseCaster said:
1)"What you're advocating is, like I'd mentioned above, taking the ball because you're mad and BOO-HOO-HOOING all the way home"
You want me to read your novel after opening up like this? Are you trying to be persuasive? If so, why bother putting this at the forefront? It is frustrating having to be slugged at the end of games. That's not that objectionable.
2)"Do you think if all 4 survivors are getting ready to escape, it's cool for the killer to just disconnect?"
I feel like you're baiting me into something you can report like someone else has already done, but yes I do. To be clear I'm not advocating DC'ing. I can understand the impulse and I've never been angry from a killer DC'ing. If a killer DCs I am cool with it.
3)"When you can't accept the game and conditions as they exist, YOU SIMPLY DO NOT PLAY. That is the only reasonable, rational, and adult thing to do. You flow with the game established (even parts you dislike) instead of childishly abandoning it"
This is actually the childish thing to do. Kicking and pouting whenever someone points out an obvious flaw that occurs regularly is not a reasonable thing to do. Acknowledge that the problem exists instead of ignoring it, or argue a way around it. Obviously you cannot argue or debate how annoying being slugged is just so the 3k can be a 4k. You want people to stare at a screen for the sake of your meager pride. That's not fun. That's not fair. If there is a problem it should be fixed- not ignored as you would have it (for some reason).
4)"The whole idea of a game is a fun/light experience"
Exactly- so why are you ignoring an obvious and consistent problem faced by tens of thousands of players whenever they log on? There obviously needs to be a solution to this. And no, your "suck it up" is not fair for people who put time and money into it. You do not have an answer so you choose to essentially reject any answer there is. There is obviously a problem. You regard that people are DCing but fail to understand or even entertain why anyone would feel that way. Whether you like it or not it's going to keep happening and the longer you fail to realize why people aren't having fun with you the problem is only going escalate.
5)"Yesterday I stopped after hooking everyone twice when the whole match was ruined by yet another entitled child who felt getting downed makes it totes fair to DC"
The hilarious thing about your last paragraph is that you admitted that other people have mercy but you don't and you can't figure out why people don't like playing with you. You are not fun to play with. People don't have to like you. If you know you're playing badly it's not everyone else's fault: it is yours. You need to grow up and take responsibility instead of exploiting no-win scenarios.
6) " That's not sensible as any move, let alone the best idea."
"there's literally no point waiting."
Actually it is, by your logic and others, very prudent to just knock all of the survivors and let them bleed out until the second to last gets killed then pickup the final survivor before an ADR can activate. Not only because DS lasts a long time and I'm not a human clock but also because it means there is a zero percent chance of hatch if you follow that routine every single time. If you pick them up as fast as possible that entails a chance at hatch for one of the slugged people(which is the whole reason you slug the second to last player anyways-you've admitted you do this already). So far, everyone who is hurt by DCs occurring seems to think the idea of two or more people staring at their downed avatars for a few minutes doing literally nothing is supposed to be fair. I'm not sure how these horrible ideas of unfairness were inculcated but it is not healthy for the game or the community.
- I'm stressing a harsh but incredibly apt comparison to DC as childish and petty behavior. I'd stated the same comparison in my earlier replies that it's tantamount to taking your ball and crying home, and before you ever replied to me. That didn't suddenly change after you had. Feel free to outline how that comparison is just totally different from disconnecting when you've lost and just want to block the killer from having their "win" though.
- I don't care about baiting you into anything, and I certainly didn't report you. My primary motivation is making logical arguments for the sake of the issue at large (hence my "novel") in hopes that it crushes this absurdity "woohoo DC=getting back at the man" in principle and for anyone maybe on the fence about goodspot vs rowdy pouty. I'm also going to keep referring to it as "your take" that people are valid to DC in that situation because that's what it is. You can rephrase it however you want to stay on the side of the forum rules, but its cumbersome enough responding without having to sugar coat the meaning of everything. However I wish you many disconnects from Killers who are just being totally fair and I'm sure you will take each one in stride.
- You are not debating the merits of slugging. You are not appealing to the devs, as I'd suggested you do instead. What you're doing here is advocating and justifying people should disconnect cuz they mad. You can pretend otherwise, but pretense won't retcon the conversation into the question of fun or not. It's about whether you're basic for taking your ball and crying when it happens instead of being mature and, yes, sucking it up like every other adult. You're not fooling anyone with "well I'm not AKKKTUALLY saying..." and especially not when here you're even here making statements like "No!! The childish thing is..." with the contrasted inference "...because there's nothing childish at all about disconnecting" clear as crystal.
- Isolating this sentence fragment robs its context. Here you've obviously honed in on the agreed upon part while saying nothing of the caveat that follows--and that being the entire point--which is essentially "if you're gonna play at all, then its reasonably expected you play like a big boy." If you want to justify why its okay to NOT play like a big boy, do that I suppose. But there's no pretending this is/was/suddenly became about how fun slugging is. That's not the issue, never was. Just check the thread topic.
- That's a lot to gleam from such little detail. I guess you think this will make me angry, though I'm mostly confused about what you think "mercy" means when I didn't kill anyone else in the match after I was totally "unfun" for daring to down that player, who I guess was absolutely righteous for quitting. I'm sure all the other disconnects I see as a survivor are actually because I wasn't fun. Lets keep laying that groundwork where you acting up = everyone else's fault.
- I think it's fairly simple counting to 60 and I'm no human clock. You're drawing out an absurd scenario in bad faith, based on other bad faith assumptions, and you know that. Or maybe not entirely---do you not play killer ever? Regardless, it all ultimately comes down to this: if you can't accept the gameplay that exists as it does, then the only adult decision is that you shouldn't play. You don't take it into your own hands to disconnect when you get slugged. That is exactly like taking the ball home and boo-hoo-hooing all the way home. Just like we started with. Just like this conversation will end up with. Because that's what it is. You may never agree with that, but the rules of this game certainly gel with that comparison. If you didn't know that slugging was acceptable before, you do now. So, until you can change the rules, please abide by the game that exists in goodfath or make that mature decision not to play.
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@Kumnut768 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642489#Comment_1642489
are you one of the people who complains about the existence of hatch
No? I was bringing up the mechanic that resulted in the type of emergent gameplay they dislike and how it's essentially unavoidable from the killer end too. I think they need to adjust emblems/achievements as a result of the impact that the no-generator progress hatches still have on match scoring, but I like the hatch. I like it a lot.
Uh... would that mean/change something about all the points I brought up if the answer had been yes? Does it mean something here now that the answer is no? I don't really follow you.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642489#Comment_1642489
"It's not the killers fault that that the hatch exists."
And it's not the survivors. 3k is good enough that you don't have to ruin someone else's experience just because you want to get greedy and take a 4th every time. A 3k is generally seen as a win for the killer.
"Hell, sometimes the killer HAS to slug the penultimate girl."
This happens every single time in this scenario. I've never been not slugged as the "penultimate" survivor left.
"For all you know the killer normally would giving the other person the hatch"
I've seen this happen maybe a handful of times. According to your theory though, the best move a killer could make would be to slug the last two, let them bleed out on the ground until one is about to die, then pick the other up right before in order to minimize chance of DS,hatch time, etc. Basically screw survivor gameplay.
A slugging killer in a hatch-scenario is just acting according to the game. What you're advocating is, like I'd mentioned above, taking the ball because you're mad and BOO-HOO-HOOING all the way home... except perceiving it as pride/honor instead of recognizing the childish spite.
Do you think if all 4 survivors are getting ready to escape, it's cool for the killer to just disconnect? Those survivors are trying to screw killer gameplay by selfishly trying to all escape, right? And well too bad about whatever "be the last person to escape as..." or "open the exit gates as..." tasks they had the right to (and reasonably would) claim. Is this "you should've considered my fun (as I personally define it), so I'm going to flip the board over" a universal condition here?
I'm really hoping the comparison will drive home why it's simply not cool no matter what. There's a material difference in playing within a game's context versus acting OUTSIDE the game to affect it. It's always a "u mad" move in the end, and unreasonable.
When you've got a problem with the mechanics, you need appeal to the developers to get that changed. What you're proposing instead is that it's legit to hold X pet peeve against the other players when they're just operating under the established game conditions with the good-faith expectation that everyone else accepts them, or they wouldn't be there.
When you can't accept the game and conditions as they exist, YOU SIMPLY DO NOT PLAY. That is the only reasonable, rational, and adult thing to do. You flow with the game established (even parts you dislike) instead of childishly abandoning it... because that's childish.
The whole idea of a game is a fun/light experience, though the one consistent operating qualifier that you're onboard with whatever the particular game's rules/conditions in good-faith here. It's not about your personal fun versus their personal fun. It's straight up the default/reasonable code of behavior implemented for the greatest good of everyone. Sometimes that code favors your time/experience over others, other times that means sucking it up and letting the conditions favor someone else's time/experience. It's not about any given situation or selfish maximization of fun/resources; it's a set of reasonable, mature behaviors in the best interest of all.
Wrapping up other stuff here:
You miss the point of "sometimes the killer has to..." to focus on the frequency instead of the need. I'm currently sitting in the boat where I've got 2 devout emblems left to achieve here despite many, many close matches where entitled children have gone this exact route and screwed me over. The end result is just more matches where I'm dedicated to playing to the death of all players whether I'd personally like to or not in normal circumstances. But EVEN IF IT WEREN"T THAT... then still an aspect of the game you're agreeing to you when you play. It's not your place to decide to take the ball home when you personally feel the killer is "greedy."
And I suppose my anecdotal experience is just different from yours, though I've frequently encountered killers that keep true to the Final Girl experience, some that decide to let all players go, and other weird emergent decisions of circumstance. Just this morning I was carried to the hatch. Yesterday I stopped after hooking everyone twice when the whole match was ruined by yet another entitled child who felt getting downed makes it totes fair to DC because "me, me, me, me, me."
To specifically address this.... "According to your theory though, the best move a killer could make would be to slug the last two, let them bleed out on the ground until one is about to die, then pick the other up right before in order to minimize chance of DS,hatch time, etc. Basically screw survivor gameplay." …What? No. That's not sensible as any move, let alone the best idea. You act as fast as possible (or waiting a maximum of 60 seconds in specific conditions of decisive strike) because there's literally no point waiting. Letting them bleed out is the worst case situation and nets you nothing.
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As a solo survivor I ALWAYS (well almost always) run spine chill (and surprisingly end up paired up with a lot of people who do the same). Stealth killers or not, it's just great in general. If I end up dying its usually because the killer lucked out and saw me anyway, had an aura detection perk, or I get sucked away from the stealth into something risky like a hook rescue. It's sort of a crutch for me at this point. I need to leave it behind more to get stronger at looping... but I love it :-<
As a killer, I've found it pretty brutal for dragging games out into hide and seek rather than tag. It just lets everyone hide easily in ways where they can keep swerving behind any given rock and you're spining around to "AHA!" at nothing. That said, (A) I do suck at finding survivors, and (B) tend to lean towards low-mobility killers anyhow.
Knowing when its a factor isn't really an issue. I usually assume that someone's packing it. When you're locked into a 3 gen and it really matters as you kick and return to it a kickable gen, it doesn't take much to figure out. I've found it rough to counter though because of that innate 1st person POV disadvantage. Looking away can be a hell of a gimp when survivors spot you from 3rd person as you're bumping into trees.
So, yeah, I've actually wondered about it being to OP myself lately. It negates that lack of of a heatbeat/alternate presence warnings meant to make up for some killer attributes anyhow. Though I think a direct nerf might be trouble since that ability of SOME to anticipate the stealth killers seems like an assumed balancing elementl, so wipining it might make stealth killers insanely powerful. Maybe some creative answer exists, like false positives? I dunno.
I'm thinking it probably shouldn't be able to see through undetectable at least.
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@Ecstasy said:
I've kept it on for now, but I'm really starting to get the urge to turn it off because I get way too many disconnects from console players. That's killers and survivors, some downed early, some if they get downed mid-match, some if they're hooked towards the end. In every case, it's always at least seemed to be salty gameplay-based as the cause rather than any technical issue.
I'd wager anything that at least 75% of DCs that I've experienced are cross-play, but that's rather conservative because I'm having a hard time remembering any specific ones that weren't console.
Without that generous 15% wiggle room for mental bias on my part, I'd estimate that really 90% of all disconnects I've experienced have been cross-players.
Lol. So after posting this, I went into my first game of the day. The two console survivors DC'd right away upon realizing they were playing against The Spirit (also ended up a console player).
The other PC survivor and myself stuck in there for a few minutes even though that really sucked "the spirit" out of the game. He ended up downed early, & I ######### up the rescue going down too. He miraculously beat the odds and freed himself from the hook on 3rd try, though we were right there still, and he got rehooked/died. She hooked me close by and somehow I SUPER MIRACULOUSLY beat the odds to free myself from the hook on the 1st try. I was so damn shocked I don't think I even moved and just stood there while she downed me again. But I think she was pretty amazed too since she ended up whisking me off to the hatch to crawl out and snag that one achievement. (^_^)
I'd been contemplating how to eve
rorchestrate that achievement now that I'd come back to DBD and found endgame collapse and hatch closing existed, so it was doubly nice. -
I've kept it on for now, but I'm really starting to get the urge to turn it off because I get way too many disconnects from console players. That's killers and survivors, some downed early, some if they get downed mid-match, some if they're hooked towards the end. In every case, it's always at least seemed to be salty gameplay-based as the cause rather than any technical issue.
I'd wager anything that at least 75% of DCs that I've experienced are cross-play, but that's rather conservative because I'm having a hard time remembering any specific ones that weren't console.
Without that generous 15% wiggle room for mental bias on my part, I'd estimate that really 90% of all disconnects I've experienced have been cross-players.
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@zeroskill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642489#Comment_1642489
wrong. either play the objective or lose points and the game gets ruined. screw my fun screw yours
They ARE playing the objective. They are trying to kill all the survivors, and keeping one alive to make sure they kill the other. Surely you don't complain when they allow someone to get saved from the hook even though theyre suppose to want them dead? That's all in their objective and the emblem system that reinforces it and playing with their food.
Your objective isn't and never was "baby takes ball and goes home boohooing"
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642489#Comment_1642489
good for you my times worth more then that. maybe in that instance the killer should just be just as respectful and hook said survivor and not waste their time?
If you don't have the time to wait for the game to end, then you shouldn't start the game at all.
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For the record, "IT" aka "Pennywise" isn't a clown killer. Interdimensional Spider Entity of Suffering is a bit more accurate.
But no game could ever do IT justice. No movie certainly has either.
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Same, though for my yellow killer also stop pairing me with red survivors. Or if that's a consequence of SWF then stop pairing me with SWF at all plz :-)
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1641539#Comment_1641539
except if you do that, you end up being slugged for 5 mins while the killer runs off to find the last victim.
THEN YOU KEEP WAITING LIKE A BIG BOY
Check your phone! Jerk off! Do something! But don't screw the other players out of whatever they're trying to accomplish for whatever reason.
This literally happened to me yesterday as a survivor, but I ######### waited there even though I just wanted to quit and got nothing out of staying since my own tome challenge was busted now. I waited because the damn game wasn't over and that wouldn't be fair to the killer, despite how godawful boring and campy a Doctor that killer was too.
Hell, sometimes the killer HAS to slug the penultimate girl. Not everyone has finished with the Tomes yet, and there are a lot of killer ones that are honestly a real ######### to get done.
It's not the killers fault that that the hatch exists. Now that hatch shows up despite zero gen progress, so there's even more random chance involved than entirely GitGud enough to ever guarantee Devout. Maybe they'd still have the 10 hooks for that Irr if you DIDN'T disconnect and it wouldn't matter if they went free. It's hard enough when sometimes that 1st hook ends up the final hook sometimes too and the survivors might go for a late save even if you're on the other side of the map. There's just so much ######### that can happen.
For all you know the killer normally would giving the other person the hatch, but they just NEED you to be patient for a few minutes and die with integrity instead of forcing them (and another team) to go through all this again, and again. This, like many things in DBD, tend to be cyclical and it'll only "pay it forward" to the next group. Lets just hope that the next "penultimate girl" is more mature, or yet another group is up to bite the dust.
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642342#Comment_1642342
What is small Game?
You're not exactly making a great case for why the devs should cater gameplay to your insistence that DoDaBonEZ is totally unreasonable to expect from survivors when you also can't even be bothered to actually look up the solution you've already been provided either...
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@TreSen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640200#Comment_1640200
It shouldn't but the only option is to request EAC kicking a player and refusing to launch if Discord/etc is active and let's face it they don't have the balls to do that. But even if they did, people could just use their phones if they really wanted to VC. There's no fool-proof way to stop it.
People tend to get tunnel-vision about only pursuing perfect solutions and lose sight of the relevant factor, which is improvement.
You don't have to stop all of it. Even most of it. If they're too scared to have EAC to block discord etc., there are still SOME THINGS they can do that would absolutely mitigate the problem that currently exists and set an example in the community.
Even just announcing once and for all "Hey we looked at it again and you know what, VC is super distorting this game, so we're classifying it as cheating officially after all. If you're gonna SWF, stop using VC because it screws balance here & really just ######### up."
There's a reason "code of honor" pledges make a difference with cheating even though there's literally no additional monitoring or consequences. Just acknowledgement causes reflection of self and deed. Most people will at least try to float within a reasonable stretch of the rules. It's sort of how like Fortnite et al, also ban stream-snipping too even though that's even less punishable/proveable.
Things are just better when you've got standards--even if you can't always enforce them. Hel, if they're that scared of rocking the boat, they could even slide in qualifier of "...or if you still insist on using VC, then don't disclose any game information, which includes..." and explain how even the most passive and casual information from shared reactions being a significant boon to knowing when other players are mid-chase that isn't suppose to be a given.
Many SWF would stop (or at least back down from getting sweaty with it to break the game) because they will be forced to accept that the impure/scummy tryharding is coming from inside the house--even if only know to themselves. It's sure won't stop everyone, and the most casual "oopps did I reveal that..." will occur as long as there's that pretense "oh we're just chatting for fun." But, that's all still a VAST improvement over the status quo where its not just tolerated, but accepted as A-OKAY by the devs now.
There's never going to be evidence to punish the average gamer who still CHOOSES to cheat, but it does nix all the Streamers with 10 followers from feeling cool and good using it for toxic gameplay. You only have to punish the people dumb enough to incriminate themselves, and use an escalating series of bans based on discretion/severity. It's more effort than doing nothing, but its the one change that brings the biggest and most good to the game/community as a whole.
Honestly, there's little point in doing anything else until then. It's madness attempting to balance XYZ other aspect of this game when there's always this monumental divide (of complete communication or zero) when any given match inherently distorts that XYZ implanted and it's effectiveness. Almost nothing you balance will be balanced in both situations, so solutions always mean more problems until the devs step up to protect their damn vision.
Anyway, this has been my daily "screaming logic into a void" segment. Thanks for listening... even if no one else will. :-/
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SWF (or more accurately VOICE COMMUNICATION) existing/allowed.
As far as I'm concerned it is the ONLY issue in this game. Nearly every major problem ultimately relates back to voice communication as either its root cause or an exacerbating factor that only aggravates the situation.
So many threads about XYZ issues are really just chasing symptoms (and quick fixes trying to fix fixes, that fixed fixes) instead of ever addressing the real disease.
It's beyond absurd that any given match might include 2-4 players with instantaneous communication & coordination in a game that's entirely designed & balanced assuming the pure play of strangers limited to conveying information via pointing and perks. Balance does not exist, because balance CANNOT exist. These situations are inherently imbalanced in ways that need be resolved first.
Even trying to balance, say, generator speeds in a game that treats both extremes as identical is like combing your hair in a hurricane.
I said more about this the other day, and addressed the parroted counter arguments and why all fail, in this post & one below it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1636983#Comment_1636983
I actually had a really great streak of real matches yesterday, where "win" or "lose" it was a lot of fun, so its feels a bit weird writing about this again today, but I know that one great day is just a short-term break from the real problem that remains to show up again, and again, and again
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II. The justifications used to excuse VC all fall apart on scrutiny.
"OH BUT SOME PLAYERS ARE JUST WEAK!" isn't an excuse. To measure change you hold the other factors constant. The relevant comparison is that any given match otherwise balanced under NORMAL circumstances is now inherently UNBALANCED with overwhelming adjustments. The fact you can still beat a SWF that you'd already have crushed anyway is immaterial. The fact any unbalanced matches exist according to the SKILL of those players doesn't validate the de-facto cheating a torrent of outside information breaks open under an umbrella of "if you (and, largely, as much as you) want" adjustments. For players, it only makes it even harder to tell where skill levels really begin or end. For developers, it makes it harder gauge actual factors and statistics they should be balancing around.
"OH BUT MOST ARE X-MAN TEAMS & BARELY TRYING!" isn't an excuse. That's just inline with what studies show about cheating anyway: people mostly only cheat "a little bit" for that edge. Something like "for the fun" helps excuse the advantage while they get to distance their standards from how much it distorts their performance compared to that match that would exist. It's negligible that only 50/75/100% of the other team are effectively cheating and how hard; the only material comparison is the game that would've existed WITHOUT THAT EDGE. That discretion is both the very problem while also the mechanism that lets players feel snug and safe in exploiting it. That choice is just as in-line with cheating as it exists everywhere; that's your CSGO player who's okay with aimbots, but thinks wall-hacks are too far.
"OH BUT IT'LL DESTORY THIS GAME!" isn't an excuse. It's not even true. You can't even begin to isolate what elements are solely due to being a bully simulator from all the game's other factors that pushed its popularity as it grow/changed over the years (ie, the reasons why some people keep playing DESPITE the incredibly toxic and destructive SWF experience). The big streaming stuff isn't exclusively death-squad communication sets over voice-coms... players only watch one of those four anyhow. The popular stuff isn't even just survivor-sided, if anything I image its the opposite w/r/t the bigger names. On top of that, voice-communication & SWF aren't even inherently inseparable. You can allow SWF, but make it clear where the lines exist & punish anyone dumb enough to uploading the evidence against themselves. And--EVEN IF they were inseparable--then that just means time to nut up and include VC as a given mechanic in the game normally & BALANCE AROUND IT PROPERLY. You cannot keep your escape cake and offer it up too.
"OH BUT YOU CAN'T ENFORCE IT!" isn't an excuse. That doesn't stop good developers from banning things like stream-snipping in their games when that's even less evidenced or enforceable. It's about setting a precedent of attitudes and behavior. Most people will at least attempt to float within that realms of acceptable conduct where SOME standards exist. Yet, this community is anything goes and paralyzed by developers who are--quite frankly--cowardly about either protecting their vision or adapting it to the other concessions they've made. It turns such an otherwise fun game (and brilliant idea) into a miserable slog.
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Voice-communication RUINS this ######### game.
I just got back into DBD recently after quitting for a little under a year (oh, hey, because of voice-coms last time too) and I'm already getting burned out again by this nonsense. It fundamentally destroys the killer experience and spreads like a poison throughout the rest of this game & the community in ways that breed toxicity, resentment, & bullying that ultimately corrodes the experience of solo survivors as well.
You CANNOT have a game that's entirely balanced around the idea that players can't communicate still be viable when it's THE TOTAL OPPOSITE for any given match. And if you want to play at peek hours, you damn well better believe it's going to be *overwhelming unbalanced game* after *overwhelming unbalanced game*. But here if that's something you don't like it's often "well that's your problem" instead of being evidence of a system that's downright FUBAR.
Look, I LOVE this game when it plays how its designed. But it's ######### preposterous that I can't go into any given match knowing whether the game is playing as meant to be played (and balanced around,) or it's just a given that the other players have this obscene advantage compared to normal that largely opens up the means to break the game over their knee to whatever degree they see fit and feel appropriate. I don't care for that game much at all.... I really don't like being forced to put up with that game just so I MIGHT get a chance at playing the fun one.
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lookin smooth / throwing the other team off by lookin so smooth