Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Smoe said:
ADS: the devs got rid of his instacscope to increase “skillful” gameplay, so I see no reason as to why he can’t have more control while aiming.
That's not the reason why they got rid of it, the reason it was removed was because killers would constantly spam m2 while in chase which resulted in Survivors being put into lose-lose situations.
It got so bad that it reached the point where people complained about Deathslinger on an almost daily basis on the forum until it got changed.
PTB huntress is same as old deathslinger but with less counter-play. Her throwing movement speed makes her lose barely any distance when holding a hatchet.
Huntress hatchet hitbox is like 2x size of deathslinger's gun and requires you to strafe. So you lose distance for trying to dodge the hatchet now.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658239#Comment_3658239
I can‘t say whether it would be a good idea. It would make people ignore her condemned until they are at 5,..stacks and then the 2stack clutch comes maybe into play or all your condemned build up is lost instantly. It could still hold the same issue, that people just turn off most TVs around them, which renders her TVs near people useless, but maybe it solves the issue?
i prefer have a weak mechanic that has potencial to give rewards rather then one that doesn't work at all vs good players. It just means that i am going have to work much harder to get wins. with old ring drawing, I'll still get 1 condemn for healing. I don't even get ring drawing in this version of the killer.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657991#Comment_3657991
Yes it‘s so sad, how they left her. The changes were a good start, but her condemned counter makes her chase and condemned useless. I also want her to be more unpredictable and have better flicks.
I didn’t want those pig buffs, I wanted trap buffs. She is a killer from a franchise, which is all about deadly traps (saw) and now she has a bit better coup de grace. She really lost her identity.
that is the same with Sadako. Lost identity. Sadako's condemn was fine before. All they needed to do is nerf numbers like instead having 0.75 condemn, they could nerf it to 0.33 and instead tapes being 2 stacks, just nerf to 1. keep gameplay the same. unlimited tp wouldn't be so bad because you would take 6 tv TP's to build 2 stacks of condemn.
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@jonifire said:
The best way to make it fair, would be to return her back to her OG version with the buffs. There everything was obvious and it wasn‘t too overwhelming for new players, because there was no form of global condemned.
They also have to make it clearer, that the locked in stacks can‘t be removed. I wrote with someone after a round and he told me that he ran around and delivered tapes, which didn‘t help him at all.
Behavior can make unlimited changes like the TV auras, that will only help people, who know how to play against her and the auras make it very annoying to play against those people.
Another Problem is her pick rate, it‘s so low that many people never got the chance to play against her or very rare, which then gives no way to learn her counter and until you encounter her again you already forgot what to do.
Behavior could also make tips, that appear in game, which then tell you „turn off TVs to protect yourself from the curse“ for example.
at this point, i just want my flicker to be relevant in the chase. Either condemn or Flicker has to strong. right now neither of them are good. unfair for how pig get a good ambush while sadako gets nothing.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657021#Comment_3657021
I find that idea cute too, and it's so obvious, isn't it? A mine explosion should cause a gen to regress, and it would make the perk much more tactically valuable, posing a counter to perks like Weasel and Nowhere To Hide, lifting it up from its current status as a sort-of meme. And the gen starting to regress would also balance it out enough, since that is obviously not something survivors want.
For PWYF I actually think the perk in its current form is not only underrated, but a pretty broken design. No perk should ever make someone 15% faster, at that point the concept of "chase" stops existing. I'm not saying it is regularly viable from an overarching "match economics" perspective to spend the time required to get the tokens (although on some killers it definitely can be, such as Plague or Wraith, and in 3-genning scenarios you can often get stacks inadvertently without needing to really invest time), but the effect in and of itself is just a design flaw. And this is particularly true in the case of Tombstone Myers. "My" version of PWYF on the other hand makes it so people will get stacks constantly, but the stacks won't have ridiculous effects. I think it would be a really rather reliably good perk in this form, but it goes without saying that I can't quite gauge how some of these perks would behave in actual matches, one would have to see them in action and fine-tune numbers. Also worth mentioning that a lot of these perks I came up with on-the-spot, really only few of these ideas are stuff I'm really all too invested in or thought too much about, which if anything only supports the point that it would be trivial for BHVR to ship tons of simple buffs and make many perks much more valuable parts of the game that don't see usage rates below 1%. Doesn't take a genius, ha.
your pwyf is something I agree with and deeply understand. The blastmine+wiretap would be really good. wiretap wall-hack would be usable perk. I could accurately predict impact most of the perk if i spend a lot of time analysis them. Unfortunately i do not see much reason to do so given that no changes will occur.
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most killer anti-loops destroy the tile, otherwise it is one the most balanced tiles for m1 killer play in isolation. Bloodlust is also a problem with loop when survivor succeeds.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I pretty much agreed with all of this for the most part except for circle of healing. We really don’t need that again. I still get tons of a value out of it.
Spies would be to strong if it was mapwide but a range increase could be nice.
Overall good post, appreciate the effort you put into it.
what is wrong with 32 second of self-care? it already has 14 second bless time to set it up.
I like his blast mine idea. that is so cute. the gen begins regressing so killer cannot kick it. I think streetwise is very dangerous perk to buff to 50% because of existence of toolboxes.
that version PWYF might be worse current version. I currently the perk is somewhat underrated for killer because it allows killer to create a weak-link in the team.
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@Crowman said:
Part of it is that basekit changes to the game have indirectly nerfed some perks and a lot of perks in the game have never been worth running. The devs are also very slow to buff bad perks and often don't buff them in a way that makes them useable.
an aspect that I dislike about perks in dbd is that a lot of perks not being good force good perks to stand out too much.. I wish perk would stand out less.
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@oreoslurpee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656857#Comment_3656857
i know right? im very hopeful for his future now.
freddy now has an addon worth running thats not paintbrush or paint thinner
the thing is freddy doesn't need tracking after gen teleporting. he needs tracking after he hooks... which is why bbq is kinda good on him. freddy's problem is that dream world is low impact feature that currently only hinders his ability.
he lacks identity, a unique strength to exist for others to select him over other killers. He's not very fun to play and this add-on does not fix that.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
I think the add-on is fine if we consider that:
- TVs can always be deactivated by survivors, and in case of issues with the character, the problem is NOT the speed after the teleport, but something related to Condemn itself.
- With decent reaction time, survivors almost always have a chance to react and leave the loop completely fine, or vault a window or pallet or drop a pallet at the right moment, or pre drop the pallet.
- On the macro game, it doesn't change too much without it.
- It's perhaps one of the most fun things about Sadako, removing it would suck.
- In the very end, the issues on the macro play coming from Sadako come from the new/casual players not knowing how to counter her. The issue here is that there are no useful enough tips, no training on how to really counter her, and the ones in the loading screen EVIDENTLY don't get read.
TLDR / To conclude, players need tips in real time on what to do to counter her, nerfing her add-ons or basekit if a bit too strong is not the way to go, otherwise we'll keep bottlenecking the killers' potential just because survivors don't learn (or worse don't wanna learn for psychological bias).
i do not see them nerfing it because taking tapes turns off television and aura of tv tells survivor she tp's meaning that survivor is always pre-running.
I still wish her flicker and condemn were a bit more well-rounded.
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@SimpleTora said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655201#Comment_3655201
It makes the survivors who use this perk get the metal of man effect so they won't go down after the next hit that would put them into the dying state and last until it's used. It sounds strong and that's what it should be something outlandishly op to make up for the immense amount of group time wasted but not something so insanely busted (it only can be used once per trail and disables it for everyone who has it not just the person who started) that it can't be played around. Spending 100 seconds at minimum in basement doing nothing and risking being downed and hooked there is crazy risky and if nobody is on gens and they are regressing then the killer is winning in that situation BUT survivors all get effectively 3 health states for their next chase which is a massive buff.
Crazy stuff like this is what the game needs. I would've had no problem with old circle of healing for example allowing them to self care in basically 5 seconds (not the original one where you could heal before the killers cd) all BHVR had to do was make it a 1 time use and survivors could've kept their OP boon. BHVR's trying so hard to balance the game around the complaints about it not being competitively friendly and that's why every perk comes out so garbage (as seen in this new chapter)
My prediction that invocation perk are going to be unfun to go against in the future. this invocation perk looks ok, maybe slightly under-tuned. Like I am sure they could bump value to 20% and make it apply brand new part effect where it reduces charges on the gen so gen regression perks are less effective but future versions of this perk could prove to be very powerful.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Perhaps Waterlogged Shoe could get a trap range increase as part of the addon? Make it the same as the Green Trap increase addon.
Then you have a free slot and a greater range at the same time.
agree.
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Looks like C-tier killer. Maybe B-tier if you camp hooks with his teleport.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654569#Comment_3654569
I do not contradict myself. Your just searching for any opportunity.
In the match i showed, i played around the traps. The survivors didnt. If survivors do not go into lockers against Myers with green stalk and purple tombstone, then their game wwill be short. If survivors let themselves be stalked by a Myers with green stalk and puple tombstone then their game will be bad. If survivors play bad, then the power will do something. Is this not how it should work?
I did the best i could by standing still. That was my play.
pig head-traps are suppose to slowdown with punishment when survivor does not interact with the boxes. currently, you get mori'd even when you are trying to do the boxes.
Pig could absolutely be a mori-based killer however boxes need rework.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654764#Comment_3654764
Shurely I could do that, but why am I forced to play a killer one particular way?
My suggestion don‘t even focus only on mobility. Shorter TV cooldowns alone would have made her condemned a lot stronger and with my suggestions she would be good in both ways.
Why don‘t just make her a cool killer in two aspects?
I can assure you that most people back then didn‘t play for condemned. After her first rework she got picked a lot less (I played a lot less against her), because it was a harsh nerf to her mobility, which made me drop her.
Also they don‘t need to nerf everything about her only to make her mori impossible to archive. They should either return her without the proximity condemned buff or with it. In both cases it would be more difficult to archive, but still possible and it would be skillful and not given for free anymore.
I just dislike that she is currently only good against noobs and her condemned is nearly not existent. Back then it was difficult, but still possible.
i most played sadako for her mori. I'd play billy, blight, wraith, dredge if i wanted mobility. there is many options for mobility but not many options for a fun mori killer.
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@jonifire said:
I copied my post from another discussion.
Her first/Og version was the best. You needed skill for condemning people, she was scarier, you had better mobility and it was the fairest. All in all she was almost perfect.
The first rework was terrible. I bought the killer for her mobility, which was the most fun thing back then. After the rework everyone took tapes, which denied her mobility almost completely. She was also incredibly unbalanced and unfun to play as and against. Just spam tp and hit everyone with tapes-> repeat->Mori.
Second rework is better, but still very bad. Her mobility got back a bit, but is still hindered by survivors turning of her TVs constantly. Then the Tv auras make her chase even worse than it already was and they get abused to run around to turn off all TVs at the same time, which is so incredibly unfun to play against. This killer is currently only designed to be a noob stomper, which is so dumb. Your own skill doesn‘t really matter. What matters is the missing knowledge of survivors. If they know the counterplay, you are basically only a m1 killer the whole game.😔 Tapes have no downside, which makes those problems even worse and turning off TVs for 1 stack is so unfair, they just run around turn everything off and get 0 stacks in the end.
Things that are needed for this version, but I think you should just return to her OG version:
- TV auras should be completely removed, except of the target TV, where you have to put your tape in
- Passive condemned after holding a tape for 50s
- Insertion speed back to 2s or 1,5s
- Remove the one stack traid of for turning off TVs if the Tv auras stay
MY HOPES/WISHES
Behavior you did such a great job with her first version!!! She was almost perfect!!!
I want her OG version back, because there the focus wasn‘t on condemned only and your own skill mattered and not the missing skill of survivors.
Strong passive condemned of tapes made survivors rarely touch tapes, which was great! Your power was under your control, because all TVs were online. You could use it in chase, to track people, to condemned them, to get close to them and my favorite to scar them.
My ideas/ changes:
- Keep the lock in; it would solve one of the biggest issues: called condemned slugging.
- Keep the chase buffs (speed boost after tp, no slowdown when manifasting, longer invisibility…), shorter tv cooldowns, anti stun
- Tapes give one stack every 25s again
- Condemned gets only applied by one Tv again
- My condemned buff idea: 24-16m 0,5stacks; 16-8m 1stack; 8-0m 2stacks. This would make her condemned stronger, which would already be stronger through shorter Tv cooldowns and make it skillful again
- Addons: Return old iri tape, old reikis watch either 50% or 33%, keep current bugged ring drawing, return old yoichis fishing net
- Give us something to hide her lullaby by making her lullaby disappear through obvious or something else
- Edit: Remove Tv auras, remove 1stack Tv turn off traid off, change tape instertion speed back to 2s
Please behavior give me my favorite killer back! Current Onryo is only good against survivors, who ignore her TVs and extremely bad against any good player. This is extremely unhealthy! She is literally reduced to be a noob stomper, which will make her kill rate stay the same. Her first version was the fairest and most fun and skilled one.
I will wait for some weeks and hope you address the issues, but the best solution would be to return her back to what she once was with the buffs you gave her. Please don‘t leave her like this. She in such a bad spot and I think you should go away from giving her any form of global condemned, most people can‘t deal with it. I don‘t Even want to use her condemned, because by making it global/ all Tv condemned her TVs will always be offline constantly.
Please just give me good old weak, Onryo back🙏🙏🙏🙏
why don't you learn billy or maybe dredge. both of those killer are mobility based. Sadako is based around mori's and her mori was healthiest version of mori that i have played against or played as in previous iteration.
Until they fixed her mori, she won't have any viability.
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@_Onyx_ said:
@Devil_hit11 Since the Antidote is more of a utility than anything else, having more Tonics seems logical. That's why activating the Antidote faster makes that utility a viable option frequently.
I have to hard disagree with that vault audio change. You can actually manipulate the vault audio to use it as a mindgame in tiles where LOS is lost for a moment (eg shack). You can chase them on the outside of the window wall around to the locker door, when they turn the corner, turn and throw a bottle straight up in the air, they'll assume you vaulted coz the smash is delayed, they then run back on themself into a free hit ;)
what mindgame. the survivor knows exactly where you are and what action you took across the wall. pseudo wall-hacks for vaults.
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@_Onyx_ said:
Clown needs more of a 'rework' design than simple number tweaks:
Clown should have his bottle capacities split into two types, 4 Tonics and 2 Antidotes. Both share the same reload. Introduce a very short animation (0.1 second) to him swapping between bottles.
Then make it so the Antidote activates in 0.5 of 0.75 seconds.
The Cloud should be a complete ring when shattering a bottle from a high surface. None of this patchy clouds that we currently have.
After those three changes happen, add-ons like Cigar Box, Pinkie Finger, Middle Finger and others like the Feathers and Cork etc can be completely changed and tweaked accordingly.
That would make Clown better and way more fun
they're increasing his bottle capacity to 6 meaning you can split your bottles in 3-3 or any combination of pink and yellow. I would added only 1 more change to the list.
Clown no longer grunts when vaulting a window.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654039#Comment_3654039
In case of Pig, i partly disagree. In case of Myers, i agree.
But even then, both need good addons for their moris to become extremely simple to pull off.
contradiction. you told me that you do not need add-on to mori and have provided evidence with a video showcasing pig mori survivors without add-on's. This showcases that mori is simple to pull off with minimum effort.
I have had ideas for how to rework Pig and Myer's mori's however BVHR has taken a stance to eradicate them from the game.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653926#Comment_3653926
How on earth did BHVR manage to nerf Pig's trap lethality in 4 separate patches, but "needs more time" to figure out how to nerf Myers grab kills?
not sure. my problem with pig and tombstone myer is that a really bad killer can beat strongest teams because how shallow the power is. there is no tech that you need learn on these killers to be successful at their mori. they just have automatic high-power level with no real rhythm or reason behind it. I'd be ok with their mori's if their mori had more depth where if killer does a particular strategy that takes skill to pull off, they get a mori. Unfortunately BVHR logic has not been to make their kits have more depth rather it has just been to slash every mori mechanic into the void.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Can the Myers alternate kill get a big nerf, since Sadako and Pig got their alternate kills nerfed?
...Sadako gets a super nerf to her condemned kills, to make it much much easier for survivors to avoid getting condemn killed...
...Pig is getting a super nerf to her trap kills, to make it much much easier for survivors to avoid getting trap killed...
...Meanwhile, it's totally fine for Myers to have his grab kills? Why haven't his grab kill addons been nerfed or reworked yet?
they said that Myer's is on list for changes however no plan rework has been finalized.
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@Seraphor said:
So much melodrama.
Every time the topic of Pig buffs comes up, and it's fairly often, the consensus is always:
- Buff chase
- Buff crouch
- Buff Ambush
- Buff stealth
- Nerf traps
And that's exactly what we're getting.
Traps are not supposed to be a way to reliably kill survivors. Ideally they should only result in a kill when the survivor ######### up, not when the Pig stalks and harrasses the trapped survivor.
Traps are supposed to be slowdown. 12 box searches guaranteed, 12 seconds each, plus travel time. 144+ seconds of guaranteed slowdown. That's the value of RBTs, and that hasn't been changed one bit.
Increasing the time survivors have to remove their trap doesn't change how long it takes to remove the trap. Hiding auras of boxes doesn't change how long it takes to remove the trap.
There is no nerf here... unless you're a Pig who harrasses a trapped survivor to force a head pop.
This is further convincing me that Pig mains don't actually know how to play Pig. You stick a trap on a survivor then you ignore that survivor until their trap has been removed. It's the single most effective form of slowdown in the game, and the best anti-tunnel mechanic that actually benefits the killer. But instead nearly every Pig I go against tunnels a trapped survivor, wasting their slowdown potential. Apparently all those Pigs frequent this forum.
I agree. current rbt are so strong that even when you aren't looking to head-pop, you still get head-pops.
@radiantHero23 said:
@UndeddJester , i cant post as often due to being banned to the shadowrealm that is Maliketh´s punching bag, and because im jailed on the Forums right now, you need to call upon the other members of our secret society. We need them all. This is an emergency.
For now, im just gonna copy and post this here:
Im back from the shadowrealm (Elden Ring) and not for good reasons.
I have to quote the Boss im currently biting my nails out: "Tarnished? Why wouldst thou....why....?!!?". Its incredibly fitting on how these changes make me feel.
This is super bad. Im not exaggerating.
Lets start of saying, that the comment in the dev notes that this is a buff is not true. The overall strenght of the Pig will take a massive hit here. Her power level will remain the same AT BEST.
Lets start off with the good stuff:
- Longer ambush (2 sec. to 2.3 sec.)
- Faster ambush cooldowns (hit --> 3 sec. to 2.7 sec. and miss --> 2 sec. to 1.5 sec.)
- Faster stealth movement (3.6 m/s to 3.8 m/s)
- Faster crouching and uncrouching ( 1.3 sec. to 1 sec.).
To put this into perspective:
- Crouch movement speed with medical file: 3.959999 m/s (right now)
- Survivor base movement speed: 4.0 m/s
- Crouching and uncrouching with combat straps: 0,91 sec. (right now)
- Missed attack cooldown: doesnt matter because the player wants to hit. Otherwise, its just wasted time. Pig is not gonna use the ambush to block vaults or pallets
- Longer ambush (new effect)
All great! Great changes to make her a bit more viable in chase. Now where is the rest? ... No? Thats it?
Now to the nerfs:
- The Pig will no longer see auras of the boxes
- The bear trap timer is increased to 3 minutes.
I cant be the only one that sees this right? These buffs DO NOT OUTWEIGHT THE NERFS. Ever had the problem of the survivor just leaving the loop when you start to crouch? You think that problem is gone now? NO! Even with all her best addons, survivors will outrun the ambush. Due to the changes making NO ADDON completely basekit, this WILL NOT CHANGE! Im currently using medical file and combat straps every game. Both addons are give a better effect, than the one that will be on the PTB. Survivors still outrun me by a mile. These addons WILL BE NERFED AND THE BASE EFFECT IS NOT EVEN AS STRONG.
THESE CHANGES WILL NOT INCREASE HER CHASE POTENTIAL ENOUGH TO WARRANT THESE HEAVY NERFS!
30 seconds longer on traps now makes head pops almost impossible. They should not be happening every match by far, but they should also not be something that happens when the survivor has to clean their desk mid match because they accidently pushed over the Doritos.
The aura change just make her even harder to play because now i have to memorize box locations on top of all the other things. A completely unnecessary change that is supposed to nerf her head pop potential.
Both nerfs (especally the 30+ seconds) are COMPLETE OVERKILL! This makes her kill potential non eistant, therefore making traps less lethal, therefore makingh it even easier to play against her because there are 30 seconds more room for huge mistakes.
This match, i had recently is a perfect showcase of this and of why the Pigs traps SHOULD NOT BE NERFED IN THESE WAYS!
Pig on Garden of Joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z06a3UullRk
THIS IS THE OPTIMAL NERF OT THE TRAPS:
- A survivor searching a box cannot die to the timer running out while searching the box.
PLEASE TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION!!!! It comes from overe 2200h of experience and seems small, but this change is huge for the lethality of the traps, while not being as massive as the changes proposed in the dev notes.
BHVR, YOU WILL NERF THE PIG AGAIN! THIS IS NOT A BUFF.
I can use same excuse as you told me. Pig will be more healthy character.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653399#Comment_3653399
You just seem to ignore how well they played (Flashbang safe, pre dropping, gen coordination) and how fast i lost gens, yes? They did was needed to be done against Piggy in higher level. Pre dropping pallets. Furthermore, there where comp players amoung them. You can continue to downplay anything to fit your agrument, but i dont think we will get anywhere in that case.
When I realized that David had a 1 search trap, I played around that. The other traps had to be 3-4-4. With that information and the down of the Kate near the shack, i knew that the other Kate had to go for the unhook, otherwise the Thalita would not have enough time to both go for the unhook AND search the final box. I played around that and it payed off. Thats playing around traps. thats how i get my head pops. I knew , when i downed the first Kate, that it was up to the second kate to go for the unhook. I had nothing else to do rather than stand my ground. I had the power position. It was up to them to do something. They didnt do the right play and got punished.
This is why the traps have to be strong. The Pigs chase is not good enough to warrant these nerfs. Not by a long shot.
they couldn't play worse to be honest. they were wasting pallets in where they created huge dead-zone around jigsaw box in corner of the map which is big red flag. on top of that, they never bothered to use infinity in the garden of joy house or pre-run properly.
as soon as I saw sabotage hook play, i knew 100% that the match was minimum 2k for pig. you won because of slug-play between shack and tile-set. Thalita[Night King8704] was afraid to go to the box dead-zone box so he opt to go to shack box in which you intercepted resulting a mori.
pig's chase is getting buffed in compensation for head-pop automatic mori play becoming worse.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653603#Comment_3653603
Even if you disagree with the playstyle (which shouldn’t matter) this is a nerf. It was efficient and effective. But hey, at least her dash is .2 seconds better now.
her slowdown is unchanged and her map control is also unchanged because experience pig memorize box locations. even if your novice pig, you can simply scout the map to see box locations in most cases. the changes specifically target head-pop pig play-styles. Personally, I never found pig enjoyable to play because I did not like her chase and stealth capacity. If she turns out to be under-performing, they can just jack up her values like faster stealth, longer dash and faster crouch.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653566#Comment_3653566
It's the only conclusion to saying that the timer nerf in any way affects the viability or strength of her head traps. An increase of the timer on RBTs doesn't change the fact that you're dragging survivors off generators to go search jigsaw boxes, and that's what her power is for.
So, the effective playstyle of Pig - trapping survivors so they're off generators then occupying other survivors with chases, hooks, and their own traps - hasn't changed. Her ability to use stealth and Ambush is getting at least a little bit better. And finally, specifically harassing one guy off a box until they get a head pop got slightly weaker.
This is somehow an overall nerf to Pig? Her main thing doesn't change, her weakest elements get better, and a suboptimal playstyle gets very slightly weaker?
a lot of people only play pig for the ability to camp boxes and head-pop the survivor. that is why it is a nerf. It is not exactly healthy play-style considering your only required to put the survivor in dying state a single time to get what is essentially a passive mori for camping.
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if you have good camera controls, you can change direction as soon as the trap triggers. a few times, I have triggered a trap and had to do that. camera swing is kinda annoying without having any effectiveness.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653428#Comment_3653428
Yeah, she is not.
She is in my roaster and i am getting a lot 4Ks. Ofcourse she is not killer for everyone, she is best hit & run killer atm.
she is bad. are you dying to sadako as survivor?
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mangled is still 20% healing longer healing. the bonuses for survivor have bigger numbers because their perk are additive while killer perk are multiplicative. multiplicative is stronger then additive because their bonus applies after all additive bonuses. they're only adding a timer to the status effect.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653128#Comment_3653128
Scream build are not viable anymore then? It was never the strongest that Piggy could do. This nerf doesnt help anyone. It only nerfs a killer that needs help.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653177#Comment_3653177
Please take a look at this match and tell me, what you think of the traps.
that's funny that they give free hook on sabotage and allow you to camp boxes. you don't need scream perks for head-pop pig for box camping. they did add 5th box to prevent pig from camping boxes however camping jigsaw boxes is still possible in some instances. bad play all-round vs pig.
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Bvhr seems to be against killer with mori's. Pig nerf on mori, Sadako nerf on Mori. there is only one target left. Myer's.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653166#Comment_3653166
Shred cooldown after Breaking a Pallet is 2 seconds - not 3 seconds. With your logic they should buff for example Bubba's / Billy's Breaking speed etc etc.
his pallet break speed change is not mentioned. so maybe they're nerfing demo because for "unfun" zoning reasons? kinda weird. demo for me strikes me as C-tier killer. I don't understand why they'd weaken a bottom 10 killer.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I think they are increasing the pallet break speed of Shred, or at least I would hope so.
There we’re a lot of typos in the post so I wouldn’t be surprised if they left it out, since everyone is bound to make simple mistakes like that (even I do it sometimes).
yeah but they added 10% pallet break to killer base-kit. shouldn't demo keep barbed glasses to scale with the change? i am honestly disappointed that demo portals did not get buffed. killer barely use them. I wish he got a bit more love.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653029#Comment_3653029
You don't get it. You don't get to use the ambush, if the survivor isn't in a secluded loop because they will simply leave when you start crouching. It's that easy. They leave and make distance, which forces you to catch up again without a hit.
If they are on a secluded loop however, her ambush is already pretty good. Until you realise, that survivors can simply pre drop the pallet, which makes the loop WAY too big for you to hit them. This is still the case even with this buff. Effectively, it leaves her ambush at pretty much the same strength as before.
The only thing that was really changed is her actual power. The RBTs don't provide a lot of slowdown, if they aren't lethal. Because that means, that you can ignore them for the most part. Before this, you had to get rid of the RBT immediately and couldn't do a whole lot more. Now you have time to heal, get some unhooks and even do your taxes before you need to get rid of it. Which removes the strongest part of her slowdown: Turning the game into a 1v3 even if only briefly. The others couldn't do a whole lot either during that time. But the extra time and removed auras take all her strength away.
You don't get it. You don't get to use the ambush, if the survivor isn't in a secluded loop because they will simply leave when you start crouching. It's that easy. They leave and make distance, which forces you to catch up again without a hit.
If they are on a secluded loop however, her ambush is already pretty good. Until you realise, that survivors can simply pre drop the pallet, which makes the loop WAY too big for you to hit them. This is still the case even with this buff. Effectively, it leaves her ambush at pretty much the same strength as before.
This is only true if you don't run missed cooldown add-on's. your statement becomes untrue when pig runs proper anti-loop add-on's. if they try leave loop perfectly as pig misses, when you try return to the pallet, you get hit by m1. Further more, the decrease base missed cooldown might make ambush dash a powerful zoning tool because Workshop grease and Syringe decrease missed cooldown by 50%. With new cooldowns, pig will go from 2 ->1 second to 1.5 ->0.75 second.
If you try to leave loop entirely, pig can zone you in the corner of the map. It is like Knight's guard effect. lots pig used to run brutal strength in the old times because you die in the corner of the map vs that perk. you might not need it now because they buffed ambush charge duration from 2 ->2.3 seconds. you might be able to hit people in the corner of the map without needing faster pallet breaks. TBA on this because i need to test it.
Pre-dropping is not as big of counter as you think. you can use Pig's ambush dash to be something like Chucky's Slice & Dice or something close to Coup the grace perk. The idea is that you go around loop and when survivor can do 50/50, you can crouch then charge ambush dash. Pig doesn't have scamber, so she can't vault pallets like Chucky can but you can use it like extended lunge. The big caveat for pig to use the power this way is that Chucky can activate his power instantly and his charge is 1 second cast time but pig has crouch which used to take 1.3 second(now 1 second) and crouching reduced your m/s to be slower than survivor which artificially reduces your distance so you often would go out of bounds with her ambush. Now it is shorter to go into crouch and you do not less as much distance.
I am still not convinced that pig will be amazing around dropped pallets but she might a bit better around them. Your still better off playing chucky because scamber -> slice & dice on dropped pallet is significant better ambush dash but overall her kit should be better in the chase. Overall, bloodlust pallets as pig in order to setup ambush at dropped pallet is often unrewarding from time stand-point so most people just break pallet.
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@Xernoton said:
This was the only really powerful part of her kit. The lethality of her RBTs was often underestimated but it allowed good players like @radiantHero23 to play around them and kill even good survivors with them. Now this will no longer be possible.
A lackluster approach at buffing her chase is not even remotely enough to compensate for that. Especially since it still has the exact same issue it has now. Survivors just leave when you start crouching. You don't catch up quick enough to hit them before they get to the next loop. So you're better off playing M1 killer and pretending your ambush doesn't exist.
When I spoke with @radiantHero23, He said that Sadako was unhealthy killer with mori's. Now I can say same thing about Pig. The changes disallow Sadako to kill good survivors with her mechanic. Pig just got same treatment.
A lackluster approach at buffing her chase is not even remotely enough to compensate for that. Especially since it still has the exact same issue it has now. Survivors just leave when you start crouching. You don't catch up quick enough to hit them before they get to the next loop. So you're better off playing M1 killer and pretending your ambush doesn't exist.
Pig has ambush missed cooldown add-on's and they further reduced her missed cooldown at base-kit. So unlike Sadako where her flicker is still bad vs good players, Pig changes might actually compensate her strength in chase.
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his biggest buff is his ability to run double iri add-on because he no longer needs to run range add-on's. So for him, it is mostly add-on buff. he has far more add-on flexibility. could be kinda major honestly. imagine 2 calm add-on. stealth doctor with amazing detection. sounds spicy.
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@Xernoton said:
It's a nerf. Not a buff. Her chase power is still pretty bad because she's slower than survivors when crouching and the part of her power that was actually good got nerfed into oblivion. They removed any and all lethality that she had and even took away her ability to see the boxes' auras.
Terrible changes overall and it also takes away the most interesting aspect of her gameplay, which is playing around the traps.
i suspect her chase power will be oppressive zoning especially with add-on's. She's going be stronger then pre-nerfed billy cooldown add-on's. You'll just be able to ambush miss, ambush, miss, ambush, miss and then you hit survivor with m1.
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@jesterkind said:
While I don't like this change and don't see a reason for it, it's worth mentioning that Sloppy Butcher (and Mangled in general) just changes who it's used on and why, it's not dead.
Like you said, they'll stay injured. Killers that capitalise on that will still get use out of Mangled.
(I also kinda doubt Sloppy makes a difference at the top level of play, that's where survivors don't feel much need to heal in the first place.)
it will be huge nerf because the timer keeps going even when your on hook. In essence, the change encourages killer to slug. For example, say mangled is 60 second on sloppy, you get hooked, you stay on hook for 30 seconds, now the timer has 30 second remaining.
The change also punishes spreading pressure because if you hit 3/4 of people, there is large odds that at least 1 of those player will have their timer expire, so change also encourages tunneling.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652958#Comment_3652958
Huntress is not an addon dependent killer though.
She has several good addons, but she's not over-reliant on any particular one of them.
she's very reliant on wind-up vs strong survivors. granted very few player actually use LOS and her 4.4 weakness. her lower wind-up will make her a lot better on her worse maps... however I think it indirectly nerf deathslinger because lower her wind-up becomes, the less purpose deathslinger has as a killer.
I used play a lot of huntress, but now I mostly play trickster. I still try her changes but i do not see myself main her because i prefer trickster's rapid-fire type gameplay more then her gameplay. Either way, I am glad she'll be more challenging opponent when I am survivor.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652966#Comment_3652966
Exactly, and it was busted. The original Iridescent Head only had a very minor penalty for years too, it took them a long time to fix that one- and for some reason they did it properly with the Iri Head but not for the Pinky Finger, despite Clown's bottles being a much easier to regain resource than Huntress' hatchets.
They added that penalty for a reason. It's never been unavoidable, even though it should be, and it's going to become even less relevant if the addon isn't changed to accommodate.
clown is not in same class of good anti-loop as huntress. that is evident by her 4.4 status in relationship to other killers. killers with stronger class of anti-loop end up being stronger with instant down because their odds to get a hit is higher. if you ask me, pinky finger should be base-kit add-on but that is probably too controversial.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652955#Comment_3652955
Four instadown bottles is also too much, that's why it has the penalty it has to begin with.
Do agree the rest of the changes are good, though. Heck, the extra bottles is a potentially good change outside of being used with that one addon.
originally it didn't have penalty. it was full bottle count for 3+ years. i am just glad that clown has a more enjoyable base-kit.
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@Azulra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405650/why-are-we-buffing-huntress-exactly
I like the extra hatchets and the increased aiming move speed, but the buffed windup speed is a bit of a problem due to the fact that Flower Babushka was 10% and the basekit buff is also 10% which means that Flower Babushka is gonna be even stronger now.
At the end of the day though I would've preferred her being a 115 killer over these tweaks, but that could just be me-
i think goal is to make huntress less dependent on running same add-on.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652945#Comment_3652945
Good, it's a badly designed addon that needs a full rework.
If they don't have time to do that, they should at least make its downside unavoidable.
i think add-on is fine. if you want to nerf it, then maybe make it set clown bottles to 4. I am more excited for yellow bottles being useful and higher bottle count. he really needed those changes.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm also concerned about that change, yeah.
I think the Pinky Finger needs to get the same balancing as the Iridescent Hatchet and it's wild to me they didn't do it that way in the first place. Hard set the bottle capacity to 1, maybe 2, and make bottle-increasing addons not affect it.
that would kill add-on. So far, I am only excited for clown's changes. the rest of them seem uninteresting. poor demo.
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figured that pig would get nerfed. at least ambush might be better? not sure.
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@Emeal said:
I don't perceive the need for a buff to this perk, as it serves a broader purpose beyond just being an anti-tunnel perk. The ability to take a protection hit for a teammate 10 seconds after finishing healing, especially when combined with perks like For The People, adds strategic depth. Could you provide more details on why you feel the current chance to take a protection hit and gain haste isn't sufficient? Elaborating further on this aspect could help in understanding the perceived need for a buff.
it is too situational that specing into protection hits is pointless. I rather run Mettle of man if I am going take protection hits.
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i could imagine 7% haste MFT being a meta anti-tunnel perk. I know I would use OTR+MFT+DH as my build.
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@gatsby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652357#Comment_3652357
16 meters isn't actually that far its hag with monitor and abuse range. The reason its 16 meters is because that's the range where the Killer can hear generators, grunts of pain, healing noises so you'd likely only be able to use it if the Killer knew you were there and didn't interrupt you. Its unlikely you'd be able to get very many seconds of it being used for context toolboxes are +50% repair speed and this reworked spine chill might not even be active the entire match as long as some toolboxes last.
I don't think there is good way to balance spine chill without limiting its usage in some form. it is too strong at enabling pre-running and stealth. I'd probably revert the radar function in version before they nerfed it and make it work in undetectable/oblivious but put 30 second limit on the perk. When you are put into the dying state, the timer is restored to full.
that way the perk has some usage in countering stealth and enables pre-running but isn't overly powerful.
Something that I have always wondered is how strong do you need to make premonition as a perk to compete vs exact coordinates of a killer. I would be open to experimenting something like 15 second cooldown with 28 meter radius.
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iri tag+blighted crow seems pretty strong in new blight. it has penalty of -2 charges... but it is same speed as old green crow instantly. i don't think you need more then 2 charges to hits on blight. this is same add-on combo but now it just costs an iridescent for what once a yellow and green.
Shred notes+alchemist ring seems pretty decent if your looking for fast recovery blight. the -1 charge gets off-set by longer duration so your not really trading map mobility. It is kinda like weaker old alchemist ring/worse pre-changed adrenaline vial.
he feels same with drawbacks on add-on's.
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@LordGlint said:
I feel like more people should try playing her before drawing conclusions. She works great against newbies who run through 6 drones on the way to a generator. Against teams who DONT do that and only get scanned when SM forces it, her power starts feeling pretty modest. You typically never get more than a 3% haste at any given time.
I agree. it is largely skill issue. I enjoy playing her as a killer so I hope she doesn't get nerfed.
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@Akumakaji said:
And it's not stronger then a well placed pop or PainRes, as always the unrestricted comboing of this effects causes some issues.
I think the best way would be to introduce a couple of new perk classes (Gen regression, Gen repair, maybe Aura reading if it must be done) and limit builds to two perks per class. Maybe perks like Lethal Pursuer could raise the limit by plus 1 or don't count themselves, because of their supportive nature.
Unrestrained builds has been a staple in DBD for many years but it's causing issues because of the vast number of perks, killers and combinations. Like when Awakened Awareness was nerfed because of Nurse, imagine if Nurse just couldn't equip it etc.
Grim embrace is automatic pop goes weasel on every single gen. in one way, i hate dislike playing vs gen-blocking perks. In another way, the pain res+grim embrace combo describes how killer matches are suppose to work for killer.
If killer doesn't flop any chases and has good game-sense to find survivors, then they're suppose win. that is exactly how perk operates. If you outplay the killer in chase, you win very easily with strong team but you lose if killer is successful.
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651802#Comment_3651802
No, i dont think either one is better. But i think 228 seconds of potential slowdown (GE without DMS) is better then 90 seconds (PR)
Pain res add an entire 6 gen for a survivor to repair. my issue with the perk is how easy it is to proxy camp with the perk. a killer can slap on deadlock+grim embrace with pain res as side perk and hook a single person at the start of the game, then proxy camp with gen-blocking. a survivor hook-trading punishes survivor team so your almost incentives to just let survivor dies on hook when a killer proxy camps with grim embrace.
I like how perk does incentive hooking all 4, but i dislike how the perk encourages passive gameplay as "best" reward. arbitrary, it would be ideal if the perks encourage proactive/aggressive play while still encouraging spreading hooks.