Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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2 gen regression perks. blocking gens is unfun mechanic.
@Pulsar said:
Hmmmm.
I really don't know, both sets are unpleasant to play against.
Personally, I'd pick blocking. Blocking gets more value with regression and you rarely see it without it.
Seeing your gen get PR'd 4 times is extremely demoralizing.
Me: gets hit by Grim embrace 2x and Deadlock on same gen.
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Don't worry I hope your happy when every killer is pain res, grim embrace, pop, no way out. By healthy spot, a perk that nobody uses instead of some people using it once in awhile.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673967#Comment_3673967
1: The speed bonus stacks for every survivor that is shown on your scanner, not just for claw traps. Either way, though, at no stage have I suggested making it impossible for multiple claw traps to be attached to survivors, I've just stated that it shouldn't happen randomly, for free, with no input on the killer's part.
This is where I'll point out again that if it's tied to hacking drones, you can deny survivors the ability to do it. If you want to split pressure on your Lock On stacks, you just need to make sure there are fewer drones out than there are scans to remove. Hell, if you're quick enough on the draw you can recall a drone immediately after a survivor trips it and deny them the chance to remove that stack.
2: No, actually using her drones and playing around them is the skilful way of doing it. If anything is brute force, it's forcing single scans and relying on random mistakes to win a war of attrition.
There's a lot of skill that goes into using her drones properly, they aren't just fire and forget.
3: So this is more of a fair point and I'll try to be as specific as I can in responding to it, because I do have an answer.
Hag's Phantasm Traps (and also Trapper's Bear Traps, for that matter) are different here for two major reasons. The first is that they're much smaller- not in terms of physical model size, but in terms of effective range. You have to step on them (or at least very very close for Hag) before they activate.
The second is that they have a logic to where they'd go, unlike the spots we're talking about for Skull Merchant that are highly specific and would require flat out memorisation to counter on the survivor side.
Those two things combined mean that you don't actually have to crouch walk everywhere, you can just take a wider path around the areas that traps would go in. This wouldn't work against Skull Merchant's drones because they have a pretty hefty radius, especially compared to a Phantasm Trap.
It's also worth mentioning that a Hag's traps don't do anything unless she decides to act on it. You don't trip a Phantasm Trap, build up a stack of something, and eventually get injured without the Hag ever having to even look in your direction while you're doing it. Similarly, if you trip a drone and Skull Merchant comes to chase you, that then matters because you don't have time to remove the stack. It's about whether the killer actually has to do something to capitalise on the trap triggering, and Hag does. Right now, Skull Merchant kind of doesn't, though I wouldn't go so far as to call it overpowered. Just an unhealthy element that should be scaled back so there's more skill involved.
having no passive gains on drones means that skull merchant has to do everything manually which is already the case vs non-bad teams. Alongside having lock-on removal, you statically will not be able to get 2 claw traps if everyone removes every lock-on stack. The default 10 second detection is low duration that I am not going to count.
This is where I'll point out again that if it's tied to hacking drones, you can deny survivors the ability to do it. If you want to split pressure on your Lock On stacks, you just need to make sure there are fewer drones out than there are scans to remove. Hell, if you're quick enough on the draw you can recall a drone immediately after a survivor trips it and deny them the chance to remove that stack.
Yes and this encourages 3 gen gameplay in order to camp drones. the entire rework for skull merchant was specifically done to make 3 gen less. Nerfing skull merchant would just make me camp more and tunnel more. Camp hooks+3 gen and tunnel people off-hook because split pressure is meaningles. Right now lock-on mechanic incentives me to spread pressure.
2: No, actually using her drones and playing around them is the skilful way of doing it. If anything is brute force, it's forcing single scans and relying on random mistakes to win a war of attrition.
There's a lot of skill that goes into using her drones properly, they aren't just fire and forget.
I disagree. The nature of trapping killer is that they rely survivor mistakes to win. Their viability hedges on the capacity to win a war of attrition. Skull merchant does this somewhat better in my opinion compare to trapper & hag but game-play principle is the same.
I believe that most player over-think trap placement on killers. For me, traps are fire and forget. They either provide value or they don't. They're also some of low-skill floor+low skill-ceiling killers as well. Unfortunately, this means that these killers often hit max potencial for most killer players very quickly as there is not much to learn.
It's also worth mentioning that a Hag's traps don't do anything unless she decides to act on it.
Debuffing survivors with hindered, Haste and tracking doesn't do anything either unless killer acts on it. I suppose the trap does injure you and put into broken. Maybe changing it to be exposed though this one of the changes between Skull merchant 1.0 and 2.0.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673881#Comment_3673881
I'm not sure. STBFL was definitely nerfed too harshly and should be looked at again. But killers still have loads of great non slowdown options. Spirit Fury, Enduring, Brutal Strength, Bamboozle etc. for chases. Ultimate Weapon, BBQ and Chili, Nowhere to Hide, etc. for tracking.
killers like Onryo got nerfed
Onryō is in the best spot she's ever been in IMO. Sure, she has a few rough edges (like survivors seeing TV auras in chase) but for the most part I'm finding her fun and well-balanced.
I have to agree with @Blueberry on this one. Onryo is the worst spot she has ever been. I share same opinion in regard global condemn being best version for her & uniqueness aspect.
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673884#Comment_3673884
"I'm not sure. STBFL was definitely nerfed too harshly and should be looked at again"
STBFL prior to this patch was a very healthy perk. Using certain killers special attacks to me was creative use and making it more viable on certain killers which was a good thing. Also most special attacks are harder to hit than m1's so it would be riskier being forced to use it in bad situations to preserve stacks. RIsk/Reward balance. Now if I run it I would be forced to ignore one player..make it more likely I'm going to be tunneling someone..and I actively try to play fair.
"Spirit Fury, Enduring, Brutal Strength"
All bad imo and not worth the slots. Way better options. These are very "feel good" perks that to me rarely add as much value as people think they do.
"Bamboozle etc. for chases. Ultimate Weapon, BBQ and Chili"
These 3 are decent. A lot of the time still just don't carry as much impact as just more slow down though. However these are worth considering perks, so I agree with you on these.
"Nowhere to Hide, etc"
NWTH was a good perk before, but after the kick limit and with how strong Distortion is it's not as appealing. It was also typically stacked with other kick perks since you were already committing and many of those were gutted. I'd actually like you to elaborate on "ect" because I don't actually think there are many reasonably good perks to believe there's much ect to add.
Most the chase and information perks tend to be extremely undertuned. They have to understand that they are competing for a perk slot that can nearly add an entire extra gen worth of time..where most the chase and information perks just aren't an entire gen worth of value. At the end of the day DBD is all about time management and they typically just aren't saving you as much time. Gens are also just so fast in general that regardless of anything you're nearly always locked into at least 2 gen slow down perks minimum at base.
"Onryō is in the best spot she's ever been in IMO. Sure, she has a few rough edges (like survivors seeing TV auras in chase) but for the most part I'm finding her fun and well-balanced."
I absolutely disagree. She's in a very bad state with her current design and it's counter intuitive. Her best design was the global condemn version. Completely a unique experience as and against. Now she just plays like most other killers bar minor stuff..she lost her uniqueness.
I suspect that when decisive strike gets buffed to 5 second stun and 80 second duration, I would not be surprised if the survivor meta turns into something like OTR+DS+Lithe/DH where survivor is just running 3 anti-tunnel perks vs killer running game-delay. in my view, the game is being reverted more and more into pre-6.1.0 patch with low perk variety.
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funny. I was thinking of overcome rework just two days ago.
The rework was following:
Press active ability button when walking to injure yourself and gain a 50% haste effect for 4 seconds. You become injured and suffer from deep wound status effect.
Overcome causes exhaustion for 60/50/40 seconds.
Overcome cannot be used while exhausted.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675118#Comment_3675118
I actually don't see anything wrong with 30 second med kit heals. When we look at how long each killer spends per hit on average 30 seconds is actually very reasonable. The majority of the killer roster can't get a hit in under 25 seconds..which is multiplied by 3 since all 3 other survivors are getting this extra time. So each hit, 75 seconds gone. Obviously a lot of different scenarios that could make hits less than 25 seconds, but it gets the point across anyway in a generality. Kind of how we talked about that self heals need to always be bad for the health of the game. So they're done for convenience, not efficiency. As soon as they're approaching "good" we get back to the scenario of why everyone dodges when they see 4 medkits. It's too impactful.
STBFL nerf makes no sense to me either. It was a very balanced and healthy perk. In order to get value you had to play around your m2 to hold stacks. That was one more perk some killers could make use of over just stacking more slow down perks..and now even they replaced it with another slow down. It also to me encourages tunneling since I personally try not to tunnel but if that makes 1 survivor I have to ignore then with only 3 to choose from it's more likely I'm gonna run into one of the ones I just hooked. I want more options so I don't have to target the same people. It did hurt Deathslinger a lot, that was a core perk on him. Same can be said for Demo and I personally always ran it on Pig as well. I don't see it as worth running anymore on any of those, they all just replaced it with another gen regression/block.
30 second was problematic because Nurse and MDR Spirit do not spend 30 seconds per hit. they spend like 10-15 second per hit which meant that if nurse or spirit made no errors in their ability, they would acquire permanent exposed[Tuft of hair] because healing == losing. It also encourages unhealthy no heal play-styles as the norm to defeat every single killer. Now you can argue that no heal play-styles is high skill technique to defeat killers but I would argue this is very bad for new players coming into dbd because it does not allow them to "practice" chasing. This is because a no heal play-style for a new player to say 1500 MMR is too sharp. They don't have enough gameplay experience to understand the in and outs of looping and only way for them to learn in and out of looping is to make mistakes which is where health-states help them learn the game.
this segment brings around the second problem which is where non-mobility killer take 30 seconds per health-state. I could go on to talk about the issues of how pre-running for non-mobility m1 killers is too strong because of health-state speed boosts and those killer are unable to capitalize off survivor poor positioning. All that stuff factors into successful healing being too rewarding/powerful among other issues such as Adrenaline & Decisive strike/Endurance being too powerful. STBFL tries rectify some of those problems but the nerf has only med-kits & second chance stuff more problematic for low tiers.
pig & clown are unaffected by sbtfl change. The reason why pig is unaffected is that pig is now an m2 only killer. She kinda has indirect stbfl where you get extra distance before the chase instead of after the hit. Max distance ambushes make pig into pseudo mobility in-chase killer. The skill required to play pig is something like leatherface with Award chili+Beast marks. You need to know max distance of ambush charge preemptively to hit people at long distances. At same time, pig might have too high of skill-floor that most player will consider the changes as a nerf. She also has Old doctor add-on problem now so have fun waiting patches for them to fix that. Clown got compensated for stbfl change but he's not any stronger than before due to pinky finger nerf. He was like B-tier killer with iri add-on. Now he's b-tier but doesn't need to use pinky but now bound to perks. Being bound to perk is less fun then add-on's because there is low build creativity. Sad, in the ptb, he had potencial to be A-tier killer.
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@Blueberry said:
I don't know why any of it got nerfed.
Because med-kit got nerfed, sloppy butcher was 30 second med-kit heals. Also targeted nerf for Fragile wheeze nurse and Spirit.
I still don't understand the stbfl nerf. Deathslinger in particular feels like he got turbo nerfed because he was one of the users capable of using Sloppy mangled effect and he also relied on STBFL as a perk. His two main perks got nerfed. Was he really over-performing as a ranged killer so much? Then consider that Huntress and Trickster are both buffed. Poor slinger. Poor base-kit and now his perk are worse.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674001#Comment_3674001
Nurse is hardly the most popular killer to run mangled. I get more blink recharge than that addon. The most popular killers were basic m1 killers. When's the last time you saw a wraith without Sloppy? Pig? Dredge? Come on.
blink recharge doesn't exist.
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@Blueberry said:
So far he looks really weak to me.
same opinion. he is going to be unpopular killer that nobody really plays.
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@Skillfulstone said:
Low-tier Killers can't even really use gen perks outside of Pain Res, Pop, Grim Embrace and usually DMS when going against half-decent Survivors. That's most games since 7.5.0 when they limited gen regression during the whole trial instead of simply making it activate during the last gen.
Using any other regression perks (or non-regression kick perks like Nowhere to Hide or Trail of Torment) is just putting those Killers at risk of being on the defensive if Survivors don't go down easy and the regression isn't enough to warrant being limited with perks other than Pop/Pain Res.
Nerfing Sloppy/Mangled was just a bad call because it's just removing yet another option for those Killers that used something else than gen regression. S-tier Killers (Blight, Nurse) didn't really use Sloppy because it doesn't work with M2 so they don't care but Killers like Wraith, Trapper and Ghosty are gonna miss this perk.
Nurse has add-on fragile wheeze which applies mangled on special attacks. She was easily most popular killer to run mangled on. Maybe Spirit with MDR is close second, so the change is definitely directed to top tier killers.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673897#Comment_3673897
1: The key word there is think, because you wouldn't be able to tell just by keeping an eye out. Ergo, you would have to crouch walk around every corner just in case, because that is the only way to check if there's a drone in one of these spots. Because the ring on the floor that indicates where they are, the thing you're keeping an eye out for, is hidden. If there's nothing to actually use to gain that information, it's not skill, it's guesswork.
Smart placement would still make them better traps. That hasn't changed. They just won't build up Lock On stacks passively around the map without any interaction from the killer, and that's good.
2: This is getting kind of absurd at this point, surely? All these extra steps and conditions on a playstyle that already took major hits between her rework and the anti 3-gen system, just to get a worse Clown power and Broken on those survivors, and somehow after these extra steps and conditions are added it encourages this playstyle?
No, it just doesn't make it 100% impossible. Anyone who wants to do something other than 3-genning would have absolutely zero incentive to do it, and anyone who DOES want to 3-gen is going to pursue it regardless, even with my hypothetical changes making it awkward and finicky.
She'd probably still do well in a 3-gen, of course! Almost every killer does if their goal is to actually win the game, since it's inherently a tight area that shrinks the map considerably. There'd just be very little in her kit to encourage it.
3: What I am describing is not brute force, it is the literal opposite. It would be finesse in using the drones actively, rather than relying on them building passively with little effort. I don't want Skull Merchant to win wars of attrition where she never commits to a chase until the Lock On builds enough to make it very quick, I want her to actually have to use and play around her drones in the smart and skilful way.
Or, y'know, anything else. I don't much care to dictate playstyle, I just want to take passive value out of her kit for the most part. She gets stealth without commitment, and sometimes she'll get info + Haste without commitment when survivors trip drones accidentally, everything else would need to be something you're actively trying to capitalise on.
Also, I really cannot stress this enough, this hypothetical would only kick in if survivors hack drones, meaning you could recall drones to deny them that option if you really wanted to pursue this kind of option. I wouldn't mind that gameplan if you had to think about where your drones are and which ones would be at most risk of getting hacked + by which survivors.
As an aside, you are harming your argument extensively by highlighting that anything in her design or gameplan involves tunnelling by default. We want to minimise and weaken tunnelling, not create killers who excel at it. I don't even think Skull Merchant does since survivors come off the hook without any Lock On stacks, but still, if the gameplay you want to highlight as her core identity involves tunnelling, you're making an extremely hard sell.
Or, y'know, anything else. I don't much care to dictate playstyle, I just want to take passive value out of her kit for the most part.
The passive is integral part of her kit. Although you are unlikely to put more then 2 claw traps at one time, the speed bonus scales with number of arm claw traps present on the map. The building of passive stacks allows skull merchant to have multiple claws in certain instances. It is still on survivor to make mistakes in regards to drones.
I don't want Skull Merchant to win wars of attrition where she never commits to a chase until the Lock On builds enough to make it very quick, I want her to actually have to use and play around her drones in the smart and skilful way.
gaining stacks is skull merchant using her drones tactically. Your suggesting skull merchant to brute force her ability alongside removing the finesse of her ability.
If there's nothing to actually use to gain that information, it's not skill, it's guesswork.
I am curious for how you approach playing against Hag traps? Hag traps are a small sigil on the floor which in many instances are difficult to spot. Do you crouch the entire map vs hag? You do not need to see the outline to identify drones. they are visible out in the open. A small amount of using 3rd person camera and crouch walking can counter the less visible drones.
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He is fun to play against because turning corners allows you to remove weaken state.
I tried Unbound as a perk but the perk feels very restrictive. I wish the perk was every time you vault a window, you gain 5% haste for 10 seconds. The condition makes it not too useful for bamboozle bubba.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/407701/the-unknown-feedback
The only thing i'd change is:
- Make it so the survivor has to keep looking at the killer, you shouldn't be able to remove weakness from behind a wall. It's weird that looking for a split second removes like 3 seconds of weakness.
- Make it so direct hits don't go through the survivor anymore, and explode. Guaranteeing that they get both the hinder and weakness or damage. Right now its just too hard to hit sometimes and direct hits feel really underwhelming especially given how hard they are to land.
Yeah, I said that his issue in PTB is lack of reward for landing his projectile. I would like that they buff his hindered to 10% so he gets mini-pink bottle & damaging projectile. Not enough reward for how difficult the direct hit+explode is to land.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673097#Comment_3673097
1: I've laid out a few times when the survivor wouldn't know, because the information they'd be using to gauge when to crouch would be hidden. Are you going to acknowledge that at all?
2: Okay, so, setting aside whether that actually works on live - though I don't see how that's any better than the killers who don't need to build stacks to begin with - my changes definitely don't encourage it.
Let's look at that scenario again, but assume my changes are in place. Survivors A and B are both working on a generator with a drone nearby, both sitting at zero stacks because the drone won't detect them while they're repairing. Skull Merchant approaches Survivor A, and chases them away from the generator, causing them to get a stack of Lock On in the process. She now leaves to go pressure Survivor B.
What happens next is that Survivor A returns to their generator, hacks the drone to remove their Lock On, and keeps repairing. Now, when Skull Merchant returns to harass them again, she has to replace the drone, meaning Survivor A gets to remain at zero stacks while running away-- and all the while, Survivor B is hacking their drone to remove their one stack.
These changes actually further weaken Skull Merchant's 3-gen capabilities. The way you'd end up playing to utilise Lock On most effectively is... exactly how you'd play her well now. Get the stacks in chase, and use smart drone placement ahead of time + good aim and prediction for lasertagging to make that as quick as possible. Encouraging the most skilful and most interaction-based gameplay is good, I'm sure you'll agree, and that's what this looks like.
3: You're falling into the recursive logic fallacy I like to call "no good survivors", here. The loop goes as follows: "That won't work against good survivors" -> "How are good survivors defined?" -> "The survivors that won't work against".
If that's the case, sure! All those mechanics are worthless against good survivors. You're not facing good survivors in this case, though, because those mechanics all provide small amounts of slowdown that build up in tandem with the pressure you build naturally, just like I said. Maybe there's a 1% of the playerbase who get to ignore it, somehow, but statistically facing those seems unlikely.
It's also not off topic, because it's the supporting evidence to my argument...?
1: I've laid out a few times when the survivor wouldn't know, because the information they'd be using to gauge when to crouch would be hidden. Are you going to acknowledge that at all?
A drone that is in the middle is visible to the survivor regardless of stealth mode. These drones are not invisible like Wraith's cloaking. If you think there is a drone around the corner then you can crouch.
To your point, removing lock-on stacks makes placing drones in obscure place irrelevant because regardless of what the outcome is for survivor playing, they will not be punished as they can conveniently remove lock-on's.
What happens next is that Survivor A returns to their generator, hacks the drone to remove their Lock On, and keeps repairing. Now, when Skull Merchant returns to harass them again, she has to replace the drone, meaning Survivor A gets to remain at zero stacks while running away-- and all the while, Survivor B is hacking their drone to remove their one stack.
The gameplay becomes more about interrupting survivors from hacking drones. when a survivor is interrupted, they get a lock-on stack for failing to hack the drone. encourage lesser fun gameplay style for the opportunity to get split lock-on pressure is ill advised. I rather be able to move around the map and individual pressure survivors. your change is creating flowchart gameplay.
The way you'd end up playing to utilise Lock On most effectively is... exactly how you'd play her well now. Get the stacks in chase, and use smart drone placement ahead of time + good aim and prediction for lasertagging to make that as quick as possible.
my play-style doesn't involve brute force lock-on. I vaguely chase survivors to put lock-on stacks than setup drones in attempts that a survivor walks into drones and becomes injured and broken when they have 2/3 lock-on stacks. After that, I use my stealth to get an instant down. It is something like a bounty hunter play-style. I don't really use hindered mechanic all that much. The main time I use hindered mechanic is when a survivor is on death hook and I am tunneling the survivor off death hook. For me, the killer is something like hit & run trapper that sometimes tunnels optimistically. The lock-on stacks and stealth addition to the kit made skull merchant amusing to play.
your changes make her into a boring 3 gen killer with clown that has setup time with traps in the chase if they commit to the 1vs1.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672773#Comment_3672773
Yeah I kind of wish the community would focus more on buffing all the other bad perks more.
I wish chase and expose builds were more viable. Two perks that I would like to see buffed is gameafoot to change obsession on every hit and starstruck to be 45 seconds.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673013#Comment_3673013
...So you just crouch walk everywhere, the whole game, just in case there's a hidden drone you wouldn't see coming somewhere on the map? That doesn't sound reasonable to me. Additionally, losing one Lock On stack for a hack is not a second chance, it's a reward for employing counterplay.
To the 3-gen thing: People have said this, and I suppose it's possible I'm missing something, but I just don't see how. Her power isn't an AOE so gens can be done while ignoring it, and survivors will only get scanned when they leave generators, which also isn't guaranteed to happen. Is there something I'm missing here?
To the last point: That's pretty obviously wrong, slowdown effects that don't put survivors at a massive time deficit are just a regular part of good killer gameplay. Anything that adds to the basekit amounts of slowdown the killer can generate is obviously pretty good, considering that basekit slowdown is usually enough if you're skilled, and Pig + Merchant aren't the only two in the game who have it.
Solving the Lament Configuration, setting down flamethrower traps, grabbing EMPs, finding vaccine/first aid spray chests + opening them + using the item, these small timesinks all add up when combined with regular old pressure the killer's building.
...So you just crouch walk everywhere, the whole game, just in case there's a hidden drone you wouldn't see coming somewhere on the map? That doesn't sound reasonable to me. Additionally, losing one Lock On stack for a hack is not a second chance, it's a reward for employing counterplay.
No. One of the skills required to defeat skull merchant is knowing when to crouch.
To the 3-gen thing: People have said this, and I suppose it's possible I'm missing something, but I just don't see how. Her power isn't an AOE so gens can be done while ignoring it, and survivors will only get scanned when they leave generators, which also isn't guaranteed to happen. Is there something I'm missing here?
The strength of skull merchant has always been the added risk of doing a generator in regards to 3 genning. The fact that drones do not detect you on gen is meaningless change in regard to a skull merchant that 3 gens from the start. That change punishes killer players that DO NOT 3 gen from the start. This makes killer 3 gen more because leaving their 3 gen becomes a risk
The gameplay that i describe in my post where I talk about purposely not hacking the drone then leaving a generator is where the strength of her 3 gen comes from. You leave the gen, you run into drone, you get 1 stack of lock-on. She leaves you alone. Pressures another gen, Survivor runs into drone, repeat x3 until survivor get claw trapped. Your encouraging this type of gameplay from skull merchant in order to use her lock-on system. Skull merchants that do not look for 3 gens and use her stealth to pressure the map are punished for leaving drones around the map because survivors acquire easy outlets to remove all lock-on stacks.
Solving the Lament Configuration, setting down flamethrower traps, grabbing EMPs, finding vaccine/first aid spray chests + opening them + using the item, these small timesinks all add up when combined with regular old pressure the killer's building.
Overrated mechanics that are at best minor inconvenience towards an experience team. Wesker First aid spray is probably strongest of the bunch however the mechanic got a sizable nerf because survivors can now hold the killer item and regular item. At best, it is mild corrupt intervention at the start of the game. Off-topic.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672940#Comment_3672940
1: It isn't, though. I already laid out the scenarios where it isn't 100% avoidable from the survivor side. The main tell for a drone that can't be outright seen hovering in the air straight away is the ring that spawns on the ground, showing you the radius of the drone. If the drone is a little bit higher in elevation than everything around it, though, that ring attempts to project onto the air, and thus just isn't visible.
This makes some drone placements quite hard to reliably spot before you're in a position to be scanned by them. Again, this is a good thing overall, but because scans outside of chase should be 100% avoidable anyway, that means there should really be a way of removing the scans you get when the killer isn't on you to capitalise. If you've got an idea for that beyond tying it to hacking drones, of course, I'm open to hearing it.
2: You might feel encouraged, but again, I don't think that would actually be the more optimal way of playing her. It wouldn't actually be flat out encouraged, especially when Skull Merchant isn't considerably better than most other killers at doing that to begin with.
The question I always have here is, why are survivors walking around with a single Lock On stack outside of chase anyway? You'd have to have dropped chase on someone who you'd built up stacks on for that to happen, and in that case-- well, in that case you're already making the decision to commit to something else, most killers have to give up some power for that, but in Skull Merchant's case you at least get a mini-Pig slowdown effect from that survivor going out of their way to find and hack a drone. Two, if they have two stacks and want to reset to zero.
3: I think giving aware and competent players (on either side) more room to make informed decisions is generally a good thing unless the information is supposed to be hidden, like a stealth killer's whereabouts. You can already see this effect in motion, so I would argue you're supposed to be able to know that it's happening. Giving players another small indicator would only be a nice QoL effect.
4: Yeah, not sure what there is to really say to this one. That's nice? It's still healthier for survivors to have ways to remove Lock On if they either successfully evaded the killer, or the killer dropped chase on them. My pitch is something that the killer gets to benefit from too, so it's not just survivors being in control of your power's effectiveness-- and it isn't that at all, also, you would still be just as much in control as you are on live, there's just another layer of decisionmaking if you decide to break chase.
Survivors can already hack drones, which already actually mitigates your power's effectiveness for any drone you placed ahead of time. That concept may not always be strictly the most fun, but it is sometimes necessary.
crouch walking beat every single possible drone location. The only question is knowing when to crouch walk vs when not to crouch walk. Frankly if you get scanned by a drone, you deserve to be punished, not given a near free second chance by disabling a drone.
You might feel encouraged, but again, I don't think that would actually be the more optimal way of playing her. It wouldn't actually be flat out encouraged, especially when Skull Merchant isn't considerably better than most other killers at doing that to begin with.
Skull merchant is still among best controlling tight 3 gens. It is single handy has made her one of the most despised killers. Your post is sugar coating the killer's capacities. That being said, I think the play-style is more what is disliked over the balance hence why d/c is still relatively common.
Skull Merchant's case you at least get a mini-Pig slowdown effect from that survivor going out of their way to find and hack a drone. Two, if they have two stacks and want to reset to zero.
slowdown effects that do not massively put the survivor in time deficiency are irrelevant. Pig is really only good game-delay power killer in the game. Everything else is moot towards a efficient team.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672760#Comment_3672760
So, in order--
1: You're right in what you're saying, but the reason for this change lays in what you're not acknowledging, which is the cracked Skull Merchant drone positions where the survivors don't have a tell due to the stealth-mode ring being hidden and sometimes have a hard time getting to the drone to disarm it without getting scanned. I don't want to remove those because I think they're very cool, but I do want the Skull Merchant not to be able to just cheese out a war of attrition with them either.
If getting scanned outside of chase was always 100% avoidable and the survivor's fault, sure, but there is currently skill expression in her kit that allows for that not being the case. I don't want that taken away, so I want it to be something you have to actively capitalise on instead.
Though, I don't think this change would encourage 3-genning at all, especially since SM can't really do that all that well anymore. What it'd encourage is committing to getting three scans in a chase, which isn't the worst thing in the world. Maybe add some kind of grace period where if they get a scan in chase they can't remove it for a while, or maybe they can't remove it while they're shown on SM's scanner, but that part feels like it might be over-complicated.
2: That's why I prefer a tell over a cooldown. I'd like both sides to be able to express their skill, and while you can keep track of a drone's rotation by looking at it constantly, I'd like to make that slightly easier to do. Most survivors don't bother even looking behind them in chase, so this won't affect too many players, and the players it does affect get a more dynamic back-and-forth.
3: These seem like you're agreeing with me? Those are good reasons to remove the Deep Wound.
4: That's not a training wheels addon, it's just a gimmick addon. Like I said, the training wheels addon would show you the beams for a few seconds in white after setting the drone, so that you can better learn aim and timings with the normal effect of her power. It's also a yellow, and I don't like the idea of training wheels addons being higher than a brown, personally.
As an aside, it's not that bad. Static beams you play around is more of a sidegrade than the regular rotation. I don't like it, but I can see why some might.
If getting scanned outside of chase was always 100% avoidable and the survivor's fault, sure, but there is currently skill expression in her kit that allows for that not being the case. I don't want that taken away, so I want it to be something you have to actively capitalise on instead.
Getting scanned outside of chase is 100% avoidable in every single situation. There is only one situation where I ever scanned outside of chase. This is where there is a drone near gen and I am purposely not hacking the drone in order to reveal my position to skull merchant because I do not want skull merchant to gain surveillance on my generator.
In that particular case, I am purposely taking a risk to not disable drone with the risk that skull merchant might show up to my generator and push me off generator thereby setting the drone off where you are forced to walk through laser.
Every other case, Survivor can easily cheese every single drone using 3rd person camera. There is no skill-cap to placing drones vs organized SWF OR a compendent high mmr solo player.
Though, I don't think this change would encourage 3-genning at all, especially since SM can't really do that all that well anymore. What it'd encourage is committing to getting three scans in a chase, which isn't the worst thing in the world. Maybe add some kind of grace period where if they get a scan in chase they can't remove it for a while, or maybe they can't remove it while they're shown on SM's scanner, but that part feels like it might be over-complicated.
It would encourage me to 3 gen every game as skull merchant because split pressure would be unrewarding as every survivor might as well have 0 lock-on stacks entire trial. You might as well just reduce drone count from 6 ->1. The only way split lock-on stacking would be effective is if skull merchant places drones and guards them which is only possible in a 3 gen.
That's why I prefer a tell over a cooldown. I'd like both sides to be able to express their skill, and while you can keep track of a drone's rotation by looking at it constantly, I'd like to make that slightly easier to do. Most survivors don't bother even looking behind them in chase, so this won't affect too many players, and the players it does affect get a more dynamic back-and-forth.
Exactly, It won't affect 99% of survivor players but may affect chase times vs top 1%. Why would a killer need a nerf vs top 1% which is where most killer struggle against over 99%. Killer need to be more viable vs 1%, not less viable.
What it'd encourage is committing to getting three scans in a chase, which isn't the worst thing in the world.
I like being able to pick the correct chases and play my macro game effectively, Freedom is the spice of the game. While I am not opposed to killers having specific strengths in a particular strategy, I like being able to win in multiple ways without feeling that I am pigeon held in a particular gameplay style. Survivors controlling my power efficacy is large negative in fun factor.
These seem like you're agreeing with me? Those are good reasons to remove the Deep Wound.
Deep wound is strong for 3 gen play-styles because it makes healing take longer. Not dealing with dead hard is great. I would not be opposed towards removing deep wound. At the same time I don't have problems playing vs it as survivor.
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don't bother trying appease d/c survivors. there was very little feedback on her until BVHR showcases kill-statistics. only than was there a natural barrage of posts to change her.
1: Hacking a drone should remove a stack of Lock On.
This is bad idea because it actively punishes skull merchant for using the ability outside of chase. Every drone becomes a lock-on removal station. You are no longer punished for misplaying and encouraged to 3 gen with drones because leaving your drones out becomes a drawback. Defending your drones becomes only way to remove the drawback. Examining the 50 minute skull merchant match should explain why this is not a good idea. The killer needs to be able to progressively win in a 3 gen. Not have an endless stalemate.
There is real no reason any survivor get any lock-on stacks outside of chase because you can see drones turning even when drone is in stealth mode. Stealth mode is almost pointless to anyone that is half alert. The only drones that have any merit to gaining lock-on stacks are drones where you turn a corner and your recklessly running. This is also easy to counter because you can use your third person camera around corners and even micro crouch for 1-2 seconds to avoid beams when turning corners.
2: Either add a cooldown to changing rotation direction, or more ideally, add a tell.
This removes one of skill-caps for applying lock-on stacks quickly in a chase. The change does absolutely nothing for bad skull merchants and only affects skull merchants that 100% optimize her kit with time efficiency. This character already has low skill-floor, so removing this mechanic makes skill floor = skill-ceiling in 1vs1 micro chase. Most survivors play play poorly in the chase that they often go down before getting 3 stacks of lock-on.
4: Remove Deep Wound from her kit.
Only affects dead hard users and technically buffs Made for this users. You can use this to camp hooks with overlapping drones and deep wound ignoring BT to tunnel, At the same time, Off the record does exist and with 90 second window, you can micro crouch her drones which forces killer to hit you.
7: Finally, give her a training wheels addon.
She already has one. They nerfed her Low power mode cooldown for this useless effect where your drones stand still. Makes your drones worse and they become auto-pilot.
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Doesn't do anything for bodyblocking.
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@844448 said:
When players see the status, some think that your position is exposed instead of the actual effect so maybe we can rename it to be 'Vulnerable' or something
Exposed can be a new effect where a survivor position is revealed (exposed)
Expose comes from old MMO wording where you deal more damage to a target. For example in WoW, Expose Weakness is a skill that makes you deal more damage. DBD just copied and stole the name from those old games. It comes from RTS/MMO/Moba type games.
Expose makes sense for old gamer but makes less sense for newer ones because they didn't play old games. the name origins idea comes from games having armor and Expose removing armor. It kinda makes sense if you consider health-states in dbd as armor and expose ignoring armor.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671874#Comment_3671874
I consider Technician to just barely scrape by without being in the running because at least its other effect is consistently usable.
It's not great, but stealthy gen repairs are a thing you can actually use more consistently than silent missed skill checks.
Of course, it should have its downside removed anyway, I'm just saying.
it doesn't have a downside. basically when you explode a gen, a gen cannot be repaired for 5 seconds. what technician repair bonus does is remove that drawback but gives new drawback of 3% added regression. I recently tested this with deadline, you gain no penalty for missing skill-checks. I am not going say these are great perks but if your really bad the game, you can run deadline+technician and have silent skill-checks with no penalties because the bonus progression you lose is mitigated from being able to repair immediately.
I am not sure what is the worst perk because the worst perk can be a perk that trigger in 1/20 games. Are blank perk slots the worst perks? The worst perk could be a perk that has a negative that is often worse then no perks like No Mither. The worst perk can also be a perk that trigger every game but often has no impact on outcome of the match.
to avoid perk #1 and perk #2, I would say Better Than New. It is a perk you can trigger every single match as survivor but it is functionally irrelevant in changing outcome every time it triggers. For killer, I would say worst perk is Predator. Again, it is a perk that trigger every match but it functionally does absolutely nothing in changing the match. Some player might even say that Predator is detrimental.
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I'd remove all negative stimulation and make it work like corrupt intervention where first time you are exhausted from an exhaustion perk, you ignore exhaustion for first 120 second of the match.
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@Blueberry said:
Lots of very good ideas and points. I agree with most all of it.
Personally I found my love of Onryo from her global condemn version which was by far my favorite of every version we’ve seen. It was actually a completely different play style from many killers and felt unique. This is why I’d rather just return to that version with improvement tweaks ideally.
I feel like every time a killer has a unique play style they nerf/rework it back into being more copy/pasta like the rest the killers. Current Sadako lacks what made her unique to me.
As you’ve mentioned in your post already, why does she need a lullaby/visual terror radius? It defeats the entire point of being a stealth killer..which she’s supposed to be..but literally isn’t right now as no one gets surprised by her. This stuff shouldn’t exist. Make her stealth actually be stealth. Force survivors to look around, not spoon food it to them.
Given that her manifest/demanifest has realistically very, very little strength let’s be honest. It shouldn’t slow you down at all going between them and should give more benefit than it currently does.
I feel like every time a killer has a unique play style they nerf/rework it back into being more copy/pasta like the rest the killers.
It is because a different play-styles requires you to re-learn and adapt to the game. The copy-pasta m1 killer does not require re-learning the game.
It was actually a completely different play style from many killers and felt unique. This is why I’d rather just return to that version with improvement tweaks ideally.
I agree. The different play-style is why I decided to spend time learning Sadako. It was a unique experience to play her.
Current Sadako lacks what made her unique to me.
too little agency on using the effectively curse, too much reliance of survivor to play poorly. results an uninteresting killer to play.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670994#Comment_3670994
You can remove Wesker's infection, the lock-on stays permanently until you get injured.
you can remove the lock-on by purposely getting lock-on when she is far away. In general there is no reason to get lock-on in most cases so acquiring a lock-on stack is a mistake in itself.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670876#Comment_3670876
Thank you my friend for your thoughts and your time that you put into this. I really appreciate you and your support. Means a lot! You have great detail and depth! You already know I enjoy your ideas.
my problem is that current sadako has none of old sadako strengths and none of sadako 2.0 strengths. It is like character was specifically changed to erase 1.0 strength and 2.0 strengths and only given exploitable weaknesses.
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@Blueberry said:
Current Sadako feels so weak unless survivors don’t know what they’re doing. Which is what caused her nerf in the first place, not her actually being too good. I miss the global condemn Sadako version. That was the first time she was actually fun and good.
I miss global condemn version as well. Playing Sadako vs strong teams feels miserable now :(
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670349#Comment_3670349
Yeah for the health of the game it can never be good. I’ll have to test it out to see myself before I give too strong of an opinion on it. The basement sounds risky at face value but very rarely are killers just randomly checking the basement. Also seems very map dependent. Some maps the basement is way out of the way and it looks bad but others have a very centrally located basement where it’s always easy to get to.
I lean towards it still being weak and not an issue since it’s only a little better from PTB testing but PTB is generally not accurate testing as the players are much worse then you’d get on live so we’ll have to see.
i am saying this because strength of the shadow is circle of healing without any setup. The location is always the basement. my leaning is that killer will have little to no pressure on the match with sloppy change and potent self-healing.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670545#Comment_3670545
Sure, but isn't it less skillfully to slow a survivor down before going for a trick shot with just one bottle? High risk high reward...
I mean obviously an addon that does the same as it currently does without drawbacks is better than with? That's a weird statement... I don't know how he was at that point though, was that when he still got slowed down when throwing the bottle? I would argue that if that was the case (+yellow bottles didn't exist) then he surely was not better than he currently is. Except for that one busted addon combination that allows for cheap insta downs.
That's a weird statement... I don't know how he was at that point though, was that when he still got slowed down when throwing the bottle?
No, it was after his rework which added yellow bottle, removed his pink bottle m/s reduction and reduced his reload by 50%. for around 1 year and half, there was no negatives for pinky finger. you could run 6 bottles, do yellow bottle+pink combination and instant down.
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major bias towards said killer.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670453#Comment_3670453
Higher level Pig gameplay revolves around traps.
I don't know about higher level pig play but that could be kept for someone appropriate to speak on it. I am unsure who to ask about it but, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdPrfrVX1zQ this right here is a mess. And I wouldn't consider this even ... close to understanding the killer role much less high pig play.
Maybe they rely on harassing with traps at the high level but I would really need someone whom has a better understanding on how to play killer, much less pig, to speak on it.
Harassing the survivor with 4 searches of boxes to get a kill is higher level pig gameplay. It is a risky move, because too much harassment and the gens fly. Not enough harassment and the trap won't kill. Please keep in mind, that all this is only possible with the correct Rng. 2-3-3-4 or 3-3-3-3 will not enable this type of gameplay if survivors play smart. The only Rng - variation that enable this type of gameplay are 2-2-4-4 and the infamous 1-3-4-4. To determine which type of Rng is in play adds to the skill cieling of both survivors and the killer. I have seen even great survivors crumble because they failed to strategyze around the rng given.
Yes pig RNG on box searching is annoying. You could have secured a really strong target but, oh look at that, one search and they have it off. It's pretty much a match loss when something like this happens but it happens. RNG is RNG. If you ask me 2 searches needs to be minimum.
All this can be pretty complicated, however, screaming makes it pretty easy against many survivors. Using a perk like face the darkness can interrupt survivors cross map in situations, where the pig would never be able to harass them. Aura only shows where they are. It doesn't interrupt them. The Pig is still 4.6 or slower. She has to invest a lot of time traversing the map. Screaming negates this time inefficiency. It also negates a lot of the strategic gameplay I talked about earlier, because the killer has literally nothing else to do other than opening a locker nearby or hitting someone to apply the hex. Removing this will lower the lethality of the Pig overall, because fewer people will be able to get consistent kills with the traps.
Yea you have screams that interrupt survivors as opposed to auras that only help you locate them. But if they are cross map and doing the trap on their head... you shouldn't beable to harass them, nor should you really care about them but you need stronger chase to beable to secure the next target, hence the update. Scream builds are broken for this type of play but at the same time you dont RELY on them.
I have never said, that the pigs traps are all around kills. I said, that they can and should be able to kill. A lot of Rng variations are just slowdown and nothing else. 3-3-3-3, 2-3-4-3 and all those where the only 4 - search - trap is the first one put down do not offer potential to get a head pop under normal circumstances. The slowdown is as much part of her kit as the kill is.
They can kill it just needs a bit of improvement on the RNG part, see above for at least 2 searches. But at the same time they shouldn't be this guaranteed kill because you want to harass players with traps on their heads. The problem with making her entirely about traps is the Sadako problem we had last patch. Where it was just a condemn slugfest. If everything was about traps, and you wouldn't be able to touch gens with one on like you suggested, then we will just have pigs slug trapped survivors and end the game there. They provide slowdown but going to the next target and getting one quickly can be a problem. Hence the update to her chase.
Why are you more entitled than me to say how the Pig is supposed to be played? I developed a playstyle that makes traps dangerous and that forces hard decisions from survivors if played correctly. You can play however you want. The killer was put in the game and it's up to us to develop strategies. Just because you don't like a playstyle doesn't mean that it's not intended. What we can do is suggest changes to make gameplay more healthy. Forcing decisions from survivors is very SAW - like so I feel strengthened in my playstyle fitting the game. Forcing people off their tests with weird cross map screaming, does not seem fitting to the character and gives way too much benefits for low effort. This sentiment is chared by many other Pig mains and survivors as well. I rarely have someone complain about my playstyle after the match. The complains I do get are the usually "bot killer" that I ignore on a daily basis.
Im not. But much like I mentioned above there are play styles that are unhealthy/broken for the game due to poor decisions balance wise, ie: Sadako 2.0, and current Billy overdrive.
Lore wise though (cringe alert): In SAW, the victims aren't interrupted by the tasks they need to perform by the old man. They have ample time to work out whats needed and dont interact with their captor at all.
Playing around traps adds a layer of strategy and tenseness to every trial. Making the timer long enough for a survivor to take a bathroom break mid match and still get the trap off just fine eliminates this aspect of the Pig. If you are fine with that, that's on you. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am. I personally like the tense gameplay the traps can provide if played correctly. It kept me playing Pig and Dbd for 2000+ hours and almost 4000 hours respectively.
If a survivor took a bathroom break mid match and you didn't catch up on the afk crows then I dont know what to say.
Gross hyperbole aside, traps are tense and can be built on still its not like that is being taken away. You can still use Rule Set No. 2 and build your perks around slowdown. Having aura's on the station is just unnecessary as you can just aura read build if you really want to harass people on boxes. And if you have played this enough already you know where the stations spawn already.
The problem with making her entirely about traps is the Sadako problem we had last patch. Where it was just a condemn slugfest.
Since pig mori got reverted, when will Sadako negative changes be reverted?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670527#Comment_3670527
Isn't it an even higher skill cap thing to do this with only one bottle? So this argument does not really work.
It is not always possible to reach another tile with the slowdown he has, which makes this addon so annoying to go against. Or when you stay at a tile in a 50 50 situation to not be in the open he can just loop it normally, hit you with the bottle while you vault and get the down? You cannot leave because you won't make it anywhere so you are going to go down eventually... Such situations are rather boring and not always possible to avoid.
with 1 bottle, you can't do the yellow -> pink -> direct hit. clown was much better when this add-on had no drawbacks and he could run cheap gin bottle for 6 bottles. that is long gone.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, it should be reworked. I am happy that they nerfed it that hard, because it is a pain to go against and it is not really hard to hit a Survivor after they are hindered from another bottle. So I am happy that they removed that.
But now it is just not really worth it anymore, so giving it an entire new effect is the way to go. And I hope that this is their plan and the nerf just now is the band-aid fix to get rid of it for the time being until they come up with another effect.
I'd say it is harder to hit then billy chainsaw, bubba chainsaw and both stalking killers. probably harder then plague's infection too.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670520#Comment_3670520
It is not the opposite of that... Stuff can be boring and not fair and still weak... You can ruin a single players game in that way and still throw the match, which is boring and unfair but still not good for the purpose of winning.
I don't know about that part, that might just be a skill issue on the Clowns side then, have you had a look at that clown guide or the guys gameplay?
I found pinky finger always super boring, because the guy usually just slows you down to get an easy direct hit without much skill involved and then just hit you... I prefer the anti loop playstyle without insta down.
your suppose still use clown's yellow bottle+pink bottle combo. the only difference is that you have land a high pressure direct hit to get instant down. that is why it is such high-skill cap add-on because there is no margin for error.
the guy usually just slows you down to get an easy direct hit without much skill involved and then just hit you
should you not get punished for being out of position? that is your fault for playing survivor poorly.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670313#Comment_3670313
If it is boring to go against and unfair then it should... It still was super annoying to get majorly slowed down and just bombarded with flasks until one hits you directly... I think that is good enough of a reason to nerf it, but I think they should just rework it, and while they are on it also rework Iri Head...
I liked going against pinky finger. more challenge. clown is too easy to defeat without the add-on. saying it is boring and unfair is opposite of "not that good". for reference, in the ptb, you could use yellow bottles->pink bottle->pink bottle into a direct hit. you can do same on live server but the extra 2 bottles allowed for margin of error.
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@Blueberry said:
Sounds like your killer mmr just might be higher than your survivor one.
i think this is not thread topic but what do you think about strength of the shadow? I recall you saying that self-healing should never be viable mechanic. What do you think about new update that makes self-healing a viable mechanic?
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@Hex_Llama said:
This isn't a request to bring it back, because I think it's right that it got changed -- it's just an observation. The speed boost from original MFT made me last a lot longer at chase while I was using it but, to my surprise, I also stayed better at chase once MFT got nerfed. And I think it's because lasting longer in chase gave me more time to practice being in chase.
It might be worth considering whether there are other ways to give players a chance to practice chase -- like maybe game modes where the killer scores points for tagging you, but the chase doesn't end at that point. Doesn't have to be that exact idea, but something that lets players practice the core skills of the game without immediately getting taken out of the practice when they fail.
for me, it made me worse at chases for 2 weeks because i was looping as if i was 3% faster so every time the killer would just hit me because distance calculation was off by 3%. I was over-greeding loops as a result of the perk.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670227#Comment_3670227
Pinky was not even that good and it was horrid to against. Besides that I have not seen many good players even running that addon, because even before the nerf it was not that good.
Even without it there are many interesting things you can do on clown if you are invested enough, there is apparently an around 200 pages long clown guide out there, otz mentioned it some time ago, that shows how to outplay basically every loop in the game. Which is something not too many killers are potentially able to do.
Did something else but his iri addon get touched? Because if not I would consider this a nice buff, as you shouldn't base a killers strength on a single (iridescent) addon alone anyway.
Something "Not that good" shouldn't need nerfing.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669747#Comment_3669747
It already was, if you paired it with Botany you could very close to a default-speed heal. I don't know exactly how the numbers break down but I'm pretty sure now that heal will be faster than default speed.
I don't think complaints will be justified, mind you, but I do think this perk was already pretty damn good on the PTB and extra speed just heightens that.
15 second heal. it is faster then original med-kits...
6% hindered is still too low. should be around 10%.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670226#Comment_3670226
When your team is strong being keyword. When someone instantly gives up upon seeing her it's a different story, so get off your high horse. And if your gameplay is so amazing share the vids of your soloq matches against her.
someone giving up is not killer issue. it is survivor entitlement that has accumulated from BVHR hand-holding survivor.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669292#Comment_3669292
have u tried playing SoloQ? How about you do that a few games then come back.
i already play soloq. when my team is strong, 3 gen are easy to break. I don't consider skull merchant or 3 gens a problem anymore. these post are clear learn to play issues.
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the rewarding is not enough for the wind-up & broken negative. so either reward need to be greater or drawbacks need to be less.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670176#Comment_3670176
If we’re gonna go that route and try to just work around said maps then I’d rather them just make the killers even better to compensate for having poor map mobility. I’d rather not go just increasing their move speed.
buffing m/s individual does fix the problem but often their problem is power itself. Like Nemesis whip requires you to 3 hit people and has poor zombie power. You can base buff m/s... but a more enjoyable change is buffing those two elements to make power enjoyable to use.
They could made pig 4.8 m/s but they buffed her ambush so it is more usable. how usable remains to be seen.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
They need to fix Trickster, Sadako, Freddy. Please behavior finish the reworks before moving onto the next set of killers.
People wait months and months or even years for these fixes, changes and reworks only to find out the character they paid for is still not fixed completely.
i feel bad for Sadako. pig gets her mori revert so pig can camp/patrol boxes with correct rng but sadako mori under-performs. ouch. Looks like I am pig main now.
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@Blueberry said:
I like having some slower killers that rely on their powers to down. The hold W problem is more of a map size issue.
BVHR doesn't balance maps. they balance killer to play on said map. if killer good, they perform well on all maps and if the killer sucks then they perform bad. In other worse, nurse good, rest bad.
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I would rather they revert his add-on nerfs which are autograph, fizz soda to reduce main event by -1 and -2 respectively. Iri photo card should be reverted to lose m/s on dying state and death compilation should reload his knives automatically after main event.
@Blueberry said:
I’d just like them to make survivors have to pull the knives out in an animation. Gives him a little extra slow down and makes even non injures with knives mean something. Make it optional though, so they can choose to be faster to down next time they run into him or do the animation.
I don't think they want trickster to be ranged ghostface that can 99% blades.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670141#Comment_3670141
90% of the reason that BNP is so good is because you can apply it instantly.
Imagine if, in order to use a BNP, you first had to find a chest, open it, and then rummage through it again in order to use the BNP - essentially 2 full chest searches in order to use your BNP, and it simply sits as dead weight in your hands until you do that.
That version of BNP would still be more efficient than this perk, even before the fact that the killer can now realize where you are and that you'll be broken for the rest of the game
it reverts gen nerf from 6.1.0 making every gen 80 seconds. that's pretty sizable. the issue is drawbacks. 2 minute to use and broken. if one of these were changed then the perk would be very common. for example if broken was not perma but only lasted 90 seconds or if invocation was 100 seconds.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Can they just rework it entirely already? This addon is never going to be well balanced in any capacity. Nobody will use it like this.
there is nothing rework. instead reverting the buff like they did with huntress. they nerfed add-on from live version.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669716#Comment_3669716
Yeah, I think Clown is overall nerfed from all these changes. And I won’t use iri pinky ever if it’s just 1 bottle, so it might as well get deleted from the bloodwebs
And the yellow bottle delay is still too much, and needs to be reduced another 0.5 seconds. There really isn’t many scenarios where I couldn’t yellow bottle on live, but I could yellow bottle on the PTB.
agree. they also should buffed pink bottle by +1 second duration so that visual blur change is not a strict net negative to using pink bottles. the buffs are too little for what they're nerfing.
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i agree. not enough of a buff to off-set negative changes.
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@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669852#Comment_3669852
i believe latest developer update not only talking about The Unknown, right?
yeah. they nerfed clown. He only carry 1 bottle so pinky finger is worse then what it is on live, aka clown got nerfed. bvhr priorities on balancing casuals.
pig 180->150 second bear trap got reverted so pig will just be monster now at box camping so mori will still occur.
Huntress movement speed when holding hatchet was reversed to not create stronger deathslinger 2.0.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668892#Comment_3668892
No, audio cue happens before the skill check appear. You can press M1 to cancel at the very moment audio cue happens then Gen exploded, skill check not even showing. Lullaby or not, still the same.
Its not survivors fault to react something they dont even know its coming.
watch otz clip at 0:39. Otz states that he is going to get a skill-check then he lets go of the gen when skill-check warning plays but the gen does not explode. that is the gen-tapping trick where you can avoid skill-checks.