Decarcassor
Decarcassor
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The only thing that might need to be adressed at some point on Freddy is the stacking of slow down add-ons and perks... Maybe. Other than that, reworked Freddy is pretty much a model for how Killers should be designed. His snares just feel right. Easy to use and place without any arbitrary downsides.
Ghostface is another matter entirely. He is a design mess. The whole hiding from the survivors thing was doomed to fail and will never work in a satisfying way for both side. Currently he is just a joke to reveal if you know how to angle your camera properly. Killers with strong fundamentals can make the No Stalk build work for them, but at the end of the day Ghostface is just a sneaky guy with no mobility of any kind. Large maps and gen rush still destroy him. You can't really "fix" the current Ghostface. He would need a rework, wich is probably not happening anytime Soon™.
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Demogorgon should be top tier. On paper he is very similar to Freddy who perform very well since his rework.
Unfortunatly in pratice Demogorgon tend to struggle. And in my own personnal experience its mostly because of his portals. The ability to teleport around the map is very usefull, there is no doubt about that, but eveything else about the portals is clunky.
They don't feel smooth to place at all and have annoying restrictions. If you place them close to gens they will be obvious, but if you hide them away the Killer Instinct detection effect will be moslty useless because it is so short.
You get 2 seconds of Undetectable when you come out of a portal but you announce it with a map wide roar and still have very loud stomping footsteps. Survivors become Oblivious within touch range of the portals wich really does not do much and the effect cease a soon has they leave the portal. Also they get a map wide aura reading on portals that are being sealed for no clear reason.
Everything about the portals is inconvenient and their secondary mechanics are very underwhelming. To me, that is the area where Demogorgon could use some improvement.
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Demogorgon has issues. Whenever I play him, if I start to struggle I don't know how to come back. Its so puzzling because on paper, Demo has everything a killer wish he had. Map pressure via his portals and a tool to help him deal with chases.
I think shred is fine. Its not easy to land, its not always the best option, but when used at the right time it can catch a survivor at a window or quickly deal with pallets.
The problem is the portals. They take time to setup and are nowhere near as convenient as Freddy's generator teleport. Plus survivors can remove them and they don't really hinder them in any way if they chose to ignore them. Active portals also emit an ambient noise within 8 meters, but their default detection range for Killer Instinct is 4 meters and they only inflict oblivious to survivor is they stand within touch distance. They are too easy to spot and completly harmless.
Also worth mentionning is that a lot of the Demogorgon's add-ons are absolutly terrible. All they do is some very very small numerical changes that don't matter most of the time.
To me the portals mechanics need to be tweaked and his add-on looked at.
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The whole point of Bloodlust is to allow killers to end chases in a world of safe pallets and god windows. Its usualy a desperation move for the killer to rely on it alone.
You don't counterplay it. Not everything is meant to have a direct counter.
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@TheHourMan said:
As long as it means I don't have to go kick gens, it saves me precious time. Idk why you all think it's bad.
Because it only work on basic attacks AND has limited range AND as a fairly long cooldown AND now we know that the "additional" regression is not that great either.
Make it 10% total. Thats 8 seconds off a generator, a nice and easy number to understand. And then either remove the cooldown or increase the range. Then you'd have an allright perk.
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He can do well in red ranks by not using half of his power. His stalking is just too inefficient and unreliable, while his ability to turn Undetectable instantly with no slowdown was seriously underestimated.
Ghostface is an accident. He is not well designed, but in a way that actually happen to make him viable.
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@Peanits said:
It's to remove hatch standoffs. At the same time, we added the ability for the killer to close the hatch. Now that the killer can close the hatch, whoever gets there first wins.
Unless both get there at the same time. In wich case the dedicated servers decide who win, with a massive edge toward the survivor who can just jump through the hatch while the killer is closing it.
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I think its pretty safe to say his power/perks might have something to do with blood, given the "Your blood belongs to Yamaoka" line and the blood related imagery featuring in both teasers.
But then again the Legion trailer happened so who knows ?
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How much you wanna bet its the exact same problem as last time where grass caused sound occlusion ?
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@NoShinyPony said:
@DaGreenBolt 100% agreed. Harassment really changed killers. If I think back two years ago, killers gifted me the hatch all the time. Now this happens maybe once a month, if even.
Part of this is also that the emblem system can heavily punish killers who care about ranking if they don't get that last kill.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
Why play ghostface like a worse wraith? Wraith does this build so much better. Ghostface is all about the 1 shots where you can get them. Wraith is about ambushing people in succession or being an M1 killer with no heartbeat.
Bad build. I don't care how much he says it's "optimal" when he is dunking on baddie survivors. I am sure every game on his channel is cherry-picked like all the other streamers. Want to know how many times I have tombstoned monto? Probably like 20+
Guess how many are on his channel? 0!
You have it backward. No Stalk Ghostface is a strictly better Wraith. And its complelty add-on independant. Night Shroud cooldown reduction help but is not even needed.
Ghostface is supposed to be all about the one shots. But it does not work against survivors whith... eyes really. It just doesn't. Every time i've tried to play Ghostface the intended way, I've only ever been able to stalk at the beginning of the game when the survivors are unaware of who they were facing. Once they realize its Ghostface they will be on their guard and won't let you stalk them.
Also stalking is very map dependant. There are some place where its just impossible to get a good angle to stalk without the survivor noticing you very easily. And then you add the wonky nature of the leaning mechanic wich make you waste even more time just because you apparently can't lean from that specific tree or corner for some reason.
No Stalk Ghostface does not care about any of this. He comes out of nowhere and hit you. And then he disappear. Rince and repeat untill all survivors are dead.
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Rather than selling, I wouldn't mind being able to exchange a crapton of useless add-ons and offerings for some that I actually want.
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Once again, no. The ability to ignore a hit is just too strong. 2 protection hits would be too easy to get and make the perk meta again wich would screw the weaker killers the most.
Mettle of Man is too powerfull to be allowed to be reliable.
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Imagine if Ghostface was not super well designed and his power was better used in a different way than the one the devs intended.
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Anybody can play without Hex: Ruin, thats not the right question to ask. But can you win or have fun ?
I'd feel much more confident not bringing Ruin if I didn't have an unhealthy attraction toward low tier killers and some of the maps where not so survivors sided to a sickneing degree.
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Legion might be in an awkward spot right now, but they are still better than the Doctor in their current state.
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Its really hard to not compare Demogorgon to Freddy, because they have such similar powers. They are both teleporting killers with tools to help them dealing with looping. And to some extent they both offer survivors secondary objectives to distract them from generators in the form of the sleep cycle and portals removal.
But overall Freddy feels like he as the smoother, better kit. Demogorgon require more work. He need to place his portals, activate them and watch them with Killer Instinct. He need to stand on a portal to teleport, wich make reactive quick teleport much more awkward if you don't want to place a portal in the middle of nowhere. And he will most likely end up with dead portals as the game progress wich he can't remove himself.
Freddy can just teleport from anywhere, and fake teleport for mind games. Even if Dream Projection has the longer cooldown, its massively reduced by survivors being asleep and and he can use add-ons to make it even shorter.
Shred and Dream Snares are both pretty good tools for making loops more dangerous. No complaints here. Dream Pallets require more setup and can lead to a big payoff or nothing at all.
But where Freddy takes the cake his with the Sleep Cycle. The non-directional lullaby + Freddy's small size make his location very difficult to pinpoint, forcing survivor to hide or risk running into him. And its just passive. Survivors fall asleep on their own, and when you hit them. And they have to deal with snare/pallets and the various add-ons Freddy can use, or waste time trying to wake up.
On the Demogorgon's side, survivors are given the ability to close his portals. Wich mean they have to stand in detection range of the portal and suffer the Oblivious status while they do it. But Demo is a very lourd and tall killer. So the Oblivious effect is countered by having eyes and ears. And why bother closing portals when you can just rush the gen and leave the portal in a dead zone ?
Freddy's powers are just so much more convenient to use, with no slow down whatsoever and many passive benefits. Demo's kit require, setup, constant surveillance and his much clunkier and less reactive than Freddy's.
Demogorgon is a visualy striking killer and his custom TR and chase music are awesome. He is still far better than some of the lower tier killers, but he just can't quite cut it for the high tier either. His powers are just too cumbersome and hold him at the top of mid tier.
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It only happens on dedicated servers. It needs to be fixed, but it could be in the next patch or in several months. In the meantime killers who care about pipping have no choice but to double down on the slugging.
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Dedicated servers are making it worse.
Since the ECG was introduced, if the killer found the hatch before sacrificing the third survivor, he usualy had enough time to close it and the last survivor couldn't do anything about it.
Now with the latency caused by dedicated servers, the last survivor can jump in the hatch while the killer is closing it and escape with complete impunity. So any killer who care about pipping is forced to slug enven more than before.
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A single flashlight save can decide the issue of an entire game, and they can still blind the killer from ridiculous sideway angles. They need to be difficult to use and somewhat not entirely reliable because they can cause such massive momentum swings.
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Basicly he need a more reliable shock (longer default range and less finicky) and some real pressure through his Madness. Not just off center skill checks that don't actually do anything because they are just as easy to hit as normal ones and hallucination that are very obvious and also don't really do anything to the survivors.
I wouldn't even know where to start. It would be really hard to make madness matter against good survivors, without making it even more obnoxious and overwhelming to beginners. It probably need to be redesigned, but I have no idea what direction the devs want to go with this.
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Doctor was my most played killer. I still like him, but he is definitly weak.
He has no mobility, insta down or stealth. His supposed strenghts are stalling and detection, but he is not very good at that either.
His shock require perfect timing to be of any use at loops and can still be negated by the lag. Most of the effects of madness are just annoying distractions that good survivors will completly ignore. And lastly his tracking is only good at the beginning of the game when survivors havent accumulated madness.
Its pains me to say, but Legion is far better at the stall and detection game that is supposed to be the Doctor's forte. Feral Frenzy gives you easy first hits, perfect information via killer instinct and the speed to act on it. Deep Wounds is just a more effective stalling effect than Madness lvl 3 and Legion can apply it very easily.
As far as advices go... Just put every survivor you find in madness 3 and M1 away. If you feel you can shock a window or pallet go for it, but don't rely on it because it can just make some loops worse. The only good thing about the shock is that it can turn some unsafe loops into complete traps. Learn to recognize thoses.
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Its really tricky to balance Legion in a way that properly reward them for chaining frenzy hits but also can't be abused in an unintended way.
I'm not sure giving Legion the ability to down survivors with Feral Frenzy would be the right move. Removing some of the unnescery restrictions on FF and making Deep Wounds harder to ignore might be just enough.
Make Feral Frenzy a little bit faster and remove the inability to see blood (why is this even a thing now that the old moonwalk trick is impossible ?). Vaulting speed should be increased a tad so that short loops are not safe spots against frenzy for surviors.
Also a fun thing to consider would be to make gen kicking faster in frenzy and refill the power gauge like a hit, because why not ?
And then there are the add-ons. They are a bad joke for the most part and I wouldn't know where to start with them. Just buff them in general and completly redesign Frank's Mix Tape and Stab Wound Study as they are currently useless.
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I call it the double hatch stand off. When the 2 last survivors hide, waiting for the other to die so they can get the hatch. Bonus point if the hatch has not even spawned yet, making the exercise even more pointless.
But off course survivors can just chose to stop doing the objective at any point and just hide forever. Unlike slugging and face camping, there is not hard set time limit to this. This is the very definition of hostage taking and can be reported.
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The Doctor need more than a simple add-on rework. The way his power function need to be looked at too.
Currently the static field does little to nothing beyond giving you that first scream to locate survivors at the beginning of the match. Its fairly easy for survivors to never enter madness 2 or 3 unless the doctor shocks them.
And then madness itself does very little and can be moslty ignored by survivors unless its tier 3.
-Off center skill checks ? Just pay attention. Its not like the timing is off or the success zone any smaller.
-Illusory Doctor's ? They are very obvious and don't do anything unless you are in madness T3 or the Doc is using a Restraint add-on.
-Illusory Pallets ? They require and add-on and don't do anything either. They just disappear when you approach them. You don't have to try and interact with them or anything.
-Illusory Red Stain ? Thats not fooling anyone. Usefull to keep track of survivors in the corn, but thats about it. Require an add-on.
-Illusory Heartbeat ? You can use your eyes to confirm that the doctor is in fact far away and look at your madness meter or potential TR perks icons to see if you are in the real TR or not. Require an add-on.
-Exhaustion in madness 3 ? Sound good, but not when you compare it to Huntress's or Clown's exhaustion add-ons, that are way easier to use and less rare. It can take 2 to 4 shocks to send a survivor to madness 3. Require a very rare or ultra rare add-on.
And then there is the shock itself. We all know the issues. Its too short ranged by default and does not relaibly prevent survivors from vaulting or dropping pallets. With perfect timing, distance and no lag it can be use a sort of anti-loop tool, but because switching modes and charging the shock slow you down, it can end up extending the loop for longer than if you simply forced the pallet drop.
Doc is cool but very clunky. Most of what he does is illusory things that annoy beginners and can be safely ignored by more experienced players.
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If the mending action is interupted, the Deep Wound timer should lose 5 seconds immediatly. Meaning if you wait the last second to Mend and can't finish it, you go down.
It should also resume ticking if you perform actions other than vaulting or dropping pallets within the killer's TR. And tick faster if you do thoses things outside the TR.
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The point isn't that survivors will eventually learn where totems spawn. The point is that survivors should have to look out for totems, diverting their attention from the generators.
Totems right next to generators are unacceptables.
Totems out in the open that you can see from halfway across the map (like the exemple above) are unacceptables.
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You just said your team managed to finish the generators after 2 of you got sacrificed.
It's your fault for letting a 3 gens situation happen in the first place. You need better map awarness.
The game is in no way held hostage, as the survivors team still has the ability to do the generators. No killer can complelty prevent 4 competent survivors from doing the gens even with gen defense perks. And the killer can still end the game by sacrificing everybody.
As a matter of fact letting the survivors trap themselves with 3 close generators is a fairly common killer game plan. Good survivors learn to deal with it. Great survivors don't let it happen at all.
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The Coldwind maps are way too big and have a lot of safe loops close to each other. Rancid Abbatoir is a notable exception as it is relatively small. But the abbatoir windows are a giant pain.
There is no outsmarting Coldwind, because most loops are braindead safe. Force pallet drops aggressively (I hope you like spirit fury). If a survivor try to lure you to a god window, consider ignoring them. Even then if the survivors don't make glaring mistakes and you are not playing a top tier killer, you will probably lose.
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@Rexis said:
Tell me what you think guys!
I think you have it backward. Freddy is fine. But some of thoses killers you mentionned could use a buff.
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You can't buff Mettle of Man without making it OP again. Not without changing what the perk does, wich is allow you to tank a hit.
If you want to make Mettle of Man a more reliable perk you have to change its effect to something less powerfull, with more drawbacks or some ability for the killer to play around the perk.
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One thing I see a lot of lower ranks survivors do is cleanse right before unhooking another sick survivor, wich immediatly infect them again. Thats a bad move. You just gave ammunition to the Plague and gained nothing in return.
If you really want to cleanse think carefully about when and how you do it. A single survivor cleansing put all his sick teammates in danger. Multiples survivors cleansing at once is the way to go. If enough coordinated cleanse happen you can potentially reset the fountains wich will give Plague her Corrupt Purge yes, but she will have 4 healthy survivors to deal with.
Also you should prioritize remote Pools of Devotion in map corners or near completed generators that will be less convenient for Plague to use.
But all that being said the optimal play is still not to cleanse at all.
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"As mentioned elsewhere, we are aware of and are fixing the three broken addons (the pins). We are also monitoring performance to see if further stat adjustments are needed."
@Almo The pins need love for sure, but are you also considering the abyssmal numbers on most add-ons and the utter uselesness of Stab Wound Studies and Frank's Mix Tape in their current state ?
Fuming Mix Tape is also one of thoses incredibly lackluster ultra rare and I'm pretty sure Iridescent Pin does not actually do what it says on the tin. Last time I checked it didn't appear to extend Killer Instinct or apply TR perks effects to the entire map, only the heartbeat.
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The Legion are in a weird state right now. They are not as bad as some players say, but they certainly do have issues.
Feral Frenzy is now purely a stalling/detection tool. Its usefull... But its not really what you'd expect of the Legion concept as a group of murderous teenagers. And the ability to vault is allmost pointless. You vault slower than the survivors and you lose a lot of your vision in frenzy, so vaulting a pallet or window actualy gives survivors a great opportunity to evade you. There is also no point in vaulting after a wounded survivor, since you can't down anybody in frenzy.
The other issue is their add-ons. If you look into the actual numbers instead of the slightly/moderatly/significantly/tremendously useless and LYING descriptors, you realize they are barely worth using except thoses that increase the Killer Instinct detection range.
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Just remove the under 50% completion restriction and the perk might be slighlty usefull.
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Generators and totems placements appear to have been shifted around a bit beetween the preview video and the final release. Wich is exactly what I wanted.
Now if only all the maps could be reworked that way...
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@LordGlint It can be nice for juggling IF you happen to get multiple obsession hooks to get it working, IF you play a killer who allready has a small TR to begin with and IF the survivors are kind enough to run into eah other during chases. Its. Not. Worth. It. Not for its supposed main function. And the whole obsession switching shenanigans are just too niche to be considered seriously.
As for Mindbreaker, it could be... Something if it didn't stop, working at 50% completion. Its a very niche perk that's supposed to threaten survivors doing gens, that get countered by survivors doing gens. Come on ! I understand that just inflicting exhaustion via gens might be too powerfull but the current conditon defeat the purpose of the perk to begin with.
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@LordGlint your exemple show a use of the secondary effect of the perk wich is the obsession switch. This does not change the fact that reducing your TR in chase is pointless, wich is the perk main function.
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@Cardgrey said:
ok Furtive chase is great for Myers.
i run it and j Myers memorial and Judith’s journal.
watch the tier 3 fly
@Atrushan88 said:
I personally like Furtive Chase. I can easily get all 4 Remember Me stacks with it, and the other part of it helps as well. In case you didn't know, you can make certain killers have 0TR with Furtive Chase in combination with other things. I'm not gonna say it's the best, but it's pretty fun to run. There's another build I wanna use Furtive Chase for, which is a Myers build. Judith's Journal + Fragrant Tuft of Hair. Sadly, I don't have either add on atm and I'm leveling other characters. Also for some reason I have problems hitting with Myers. I think it's because he's so tall. Megs especially. I miss them all the damn time with Michael.
You both realize that Furtive Chase only work in chase, right ?
It does not reduce the Terror Radius unless you are currently in a chase (and have stacks of course). Wich mean the survivors will hear you coming. And you can't combine it with Monitor & Abuse, because M&A increase your TR by 8 meters when you are in a chase. Wich mean you would need 2 stacks of FF to just cancel the increase of M&A and at 4 stack you would only get half of the (useless) effect of FF.
Beside what is the point of reducing your TR in chase ? The survivors hear the chase music and see you. You still have the Red Stain too. So even if you could in theory reduce your heartbeat to 0 in chase (wich I'm pretty sure only Myers can do and only in EW1 or 2), it still would not help much.
And if you could do that from the start of the game maybe it would be an interesting gimmick, but no. You have to hook your obsession 4 times. So in all likelyhood, by the time you get all your useless stacks of FF, the game is probably close to being over if you are not playing against complete potatoes (if the obssesion hasn't DCed or killed itself on the hook).
So once again how is Furtive Chase supposed to help the killer do his job exactly ?
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I usualy use it until I get all the perks I want on each killer. Its convenient and great for farming BP, but I find that its not the most usefull perk for every single killer.
I've allmost entirely stopped using it on "setup" killers like Trapper Hag and eventually Demogorgon. I use the time after a hook to place traps and portals and don't waste time looking around for BBQ reads.
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It just feels right.
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@Atrushan88 I think this update is a very big hint from the devs that maybe survivors should consider waking up more often against Freddy. 😴
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/693875#Comment_693875
Wait that means Freddy is the new best camper...
Asleep and therefore Oblivious survivors can still hear Freddy's nursery rhyme. It's not his Terror Radius. It's a sound cue that emmanate from Freddy that you can only hear when you are in the dream world.
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When you are affected by Oblivious, the killer's Terror Radius no longer exist for you.
This mean that you no longer hear the heartbeat and that killer or survivor perks that interact with the TR don't work for you. You cannot be affected by something like Coulrophobia or Unnerving Presence, but you also can't use Borrowed Time or Stake Out.
There are currently only 2 killers that can inflict Oblivious. The Demogorgon when you stand close to one of his portals and The Nightmare when you fall asleep.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/690780#Comment_690780
There is something to learn. How consistent LF can be at rank 1.
What perks work better?
Etc.
Also, don't rain on other people's parade
All we would learn is how consistent @GrootDude is at rank 1 on PS4. And even then, a hundred games with so many variations in survivors individual skill, SWF, perks, tools, add-ons, offerings, maps, totem placements, etc... Wouldn't mean much at the end of it, statisticly speaking.
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I'm just voicing my honnest opinion. There is nothing wrong about playing and enjoying Leatherface. But trying to demonstrate any kind of special value to his kit is just wishfull thinking. If you can be consistent with Leatherface in red ranks then you can be consistent with most M1 killers and get similar to better performances overall.
All Leatherface has is a cumbersome insta-down attack. Thats it. Thats the entirety of his abilities. And its a shame. I wish he had a more interesting design, but right now its simply not the case.
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There is nothing to prove or demonstrate. Leatherface has base killer stats and a bad chainsaw compared to Billy's. He has no other power or abilities.
The only thing to learn from such an experiment is how good you are with killer fundamentals and how often survivors make mistakes.
Leatherface is bad because his design and his power are bad. There is no worst killer to rule them all. There is the low tier bench and Bubba is sitting firmly on it with a few others.
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Dark Devotion with Legion. It actually kinda works and nobody see it coming.
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It doesn't have to be percentages. You can spell the values in flat seconds/meters/whatever other metrics there are.
For that matter I also wish power descriptions would include actual values. How long does my ability last ? How long is the cooldown ? How much recovery do I have if I miss etc. Its really dumb to have to look for this basic things on wikis.
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Slightly, moderatly, considerably and tremendously just don't translate to any particular values. It will vary add-on to add-on with no consistency whatsoever.
For some reason the devs seem to think that this makes add-ons easier to understand than giving us straight numbers. I disagree.
This "natural langage" format is just vague and misleading. In some cases it just hide how pointless some add-ons truly are.
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The Demogorgon isn't disrupting anything. He looks like he will be a solid mid tier killer by himself but his perks as they where on the PTB are not going to make any impact. Nobody will bother using them in the long run if they stay the same.
Yes he does not need BBQ. Many killers don't. They just use it because its convenient and can double your BP to alleviate the grind. So expect to see a lot of Demogorgons use it until they can get more usefull perks.
Sadly the best build I can think for the Demogorgon is just Hex: Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel, Enduring and Spirit Fury. Plus the Red Moss add-on for maximum pallet disrespect (wich should really be basekit honnestly). Not exactly what I'd call shaking the Meta.