Dadeordye
Dadeordye
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@heavenly_savage1 said:
no just they need to do something about tunneling and camping straight off hook, it takes no skill to sit and proxy camo a hook just so you can slug everyone to get the free mori at the end…..killers do not want to take chase or anything like that anymore
Same as rushing gens.
No skill at all.
I'm not defending killers that do these things. I just want to take this opportunity to point out that focusing on gen rush also does not need skills.😁 -
Survs that give up on first hook get slugged.
If you don't want to play why are you in this match ruining it for the other survs? -
@Rick1998 said:
still poor game design . i will use a sac ward everymatch now but i still hope they look at map offerings so i can go back to using bps and cakes .
This change is indeed better than nothing and show us that BHVR team is aware of the issue Map Offerings are now, but why not kill switch them?
The grinding for this game is another issue that basically forces us to use cakes.
Also regarding this:
-BP incentives are not working as they used to (never saw a 100% for either side for more than 30 minutes everyday).
-Perks that do not give bonus BP anymore.
-There are so many map offerings that by removing them completely the chance of a Bloody Party Streamers appearing on any Bloodweb would increase drastically.
And now "we can't" use our cakes if we want to avoid maps.
Another thing is that killers could also use moris and now they have to choose this or negate a map offering
So… kill switch? -
@Bleakbtw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845883#Comment_3845883
Thank you Mandy! I really hope to see some changes to Medusa hair/Lapis combo as well as some incentive to use Hellfire. I personally feel shapeshift could go to 3 seconds but other than all the other add-on changes from my other post you guys are doing a good job! <3 Wolf is in an amazing spot right now.
I think Lapiz Lazuli is a menace only when paired with Medusa's Hair. If you tweak the latter this "issue" would be solved.
BUT I think every number they change in Medusa's will make it trash. The effect should be completely changed.
Would be nice if they tweak some of his weak and useless add-ons also. Both his Iri are useless. The pillars don't even make a 15º turn with the Ring and Alucard's Shield create holes on the floor that make dodging the pillar pretty easy. Only chance to score a down with the latter is if the surv run blind and reckless through the door or if they can't outmaneuver right after a hit because of the speed bonus and end up being hit by a pillar.
Sunglasses, as I've said prior in this thread, is completely useless.
Wolf is still meh.
At least give it backwards walk a normal speed and faster pallet break with the pounce. -
@Mandy said:
For the release tomorrow the Live Changes will be as they were in the PTB - however, there will be space in the hotfixes that follow to make changes to those live balance adjustments. We need the feedback on them once they are live.
Thanks for replying Mandy 😁
Good survs can dodge Hellfire pretty easily, so by increasing the cooldown by basically 50% it will end up being used simply as a body block tool.
I understand you guys want that players use all of Dracula's three forms, but the buffs for the wolf are so small… maybe make it walk backwards at the normal speed, giving him a faster vault and/or making the pounce indeed break pallets faster than the common action would help people using it more.
Wolf form not being buffed enough and even less uses of Hellfire can potentially make him only score hits with M1 and no one wants to play as only as a M1 killer.😁@BritneyMitch said:
I mean does anyone think dracula didnt need a bit of a nerf? The majority of the community views this as a good change, Dracula is still a very very strong killer.
Not like these. 50% cooldown increase in his coolest power is not good.
Maybe the problem is that with Sylph Feather it indeed becomes too "spammy", so maybe rework these add-ons would be great.
And also rework useless add-ons like Sunglasses. -
@radiantHero23 said:
I feel like a lot could have improved from the Ptb. This feels so little (I know, they said that further updates will arrive in the following patches). Feels like they are very busy right now...
Now you got me even more worried 😂
Huge possibility of nerfs. -
@Caiman said:
I was hoping they'd tone down the Hellfire nerf and further buff Wolf, but no. One of my favorite killers is gonna be a lot worse to play now.
I have no other true/real life friends to play DbD and my friend who mains Dracula is almost considering stopping playing altogether. He is playing this game way longer than me (he introduced me to DbD) and, in his words, he's tired of this kind of decisions by BHVR team.
That's what's worrying me. 😔 -
@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842609#Comment_3842609
it makes more sense to disable auras while she's holding blink.
it's fine when she sees them in fatigue or while blinking, but at the moment where she chooses blink location it's too good.
Maybe tone down her lunge would be good too.
-
@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842452#Comment_3842452
i feel like the bottleneck is very much solveable by adding mechanics that were normally added to powers that warranted that later on.
she's outdated, but not ultimately flawed in that regard.
as of now, the only bottleneck in her design is how she can point&click with auras. fix that and that's pretty much done.
Now thinking of that… makes sense.
Aura perks are the most affected by this.
So we make them not work with her by adding total blindness in her Fatigue?@Mr_K said:
Premise:
why years pass and almost every killer receive nerfs and Nurse is basically untouched in all DbD history
Reality:
Give me back 2016 Nurse then. There's no differece right?
The premise of this thread is bogus.
C'mon man.
You're smart. You understood the point.😁 -
@Xernoton said:
Nurse wasn't left untouched. Not at all. She haa received so many nerfs over the years, I honestly find it hard to believe that people just forget about them.
The reason she is still the strongest killer is because her power is game breaking. She ignores the very basics of this game. Of course that will make her strong.
That's why I've said "basically".😁
She indeed received nerfs, but she needs a rework in fact.
Like you said: "power is game breaking". -
@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842410#Comment_3842410
almost all killers break the rules of the game to some extent. thats what their powers do. i struggle to name a single killer whose power doesn't break the default rules of the game in one way or the other, because they always change something about the way normal match goes.
trapper places traps that can entirely bypass the whole chase&hitting sequence. wraith breaks the rule of the terror radius, hillbilly breaks the 2 hits to down & mobility rule, huntress breaks "melee range" rule, pyramid head or sadako break the hook rule, singularity breaks "pallet stops killer" rule and so on.
nurse is incapable of chasing survivors by W keying on them, she has to constantly use her blinks which comes with its pros and cons - ability to ignore orthodox map resources, at the cost of struggling to deal with normally unsafe or borderline deadzone tiles because of the way blinks work. nurse is the only killer where map resources almost dont matter which is both good and bad because you barely rely on them throughout the whole match and can give nurse a long chase if you're better than her at any point in the match.
there's nothing wrong with nurse in principle. we could argue that her blink range, cd or lunge distance can be too generous and I could even agree on that, but that's not the point you're making here.
That lunge is so damn criminal…
Let's say then that she break the rules on a whole new lvl.😁@radiantHero23 said:
Nurse received a lot of nerfs over the years.
However, I thank that her core design is problematic due to it being a bottleneck for perk design, as it has been proven multiple times by now.
She should change for the game to improve.
YES! THIS!
Bottleneck! -
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
^this. Ive felt like i was the only one that wanted more legendaries as nobody talks about 6/10 castlevania characters being cosplays lol i would LOVE to have simon as a legendary along with shanoa. I believe there is still potential to sell more castlevania characters but the fact that they alredy have them in as clothes concerns me that they wont feel the need to add nearly the same model with a new voice actor etc. But it would mean the world to me lol
Seems BHVR and Konami have a good relationship.
Fingers crossed here for more Castlevania content.😁 -
I would be playing it as surv non stop (by non stop I mean every second I can play any game would be 2v8 until it leaves) if the BP incentive stop fluctuating that much. There's some hours that there's 0%.
My Vecna is not p100 yet.
Playing as surv is fun, specially if you do like me and listen a OST from your character while you play (Jill while listening Sad, but True both from RE5 and MvC3), but I prefer to use my time in it when the incentives are at least 250%
What about a 800% BP for surv? -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432993/lets-talk-about-nurse
I think a problem for Nurse is that she fundamentally breaks the rules of the game. Every killer has varying pros and cons to playing around loops and pallets, Nurse just jumps past those. It's why so many perks fall into the category of 'we can't have that because it would be too strong on Nurse'.
Her biggest weakness is her ability to get across the map, but as maps shrink to bolster M1 killers, she gets stronger as well. This is kind of why Nurse is not the dominant menace in 2v8 as she is in 1v4.
This is compounded by that until a player gets an idea of her teleports, she absolutely is garbage. So if you nerfed her power (say slowing down the speed it regens) this would become even more of a massive gulf.
The two best ideas I've heard for Nurse nerfs:
1: Blindness around her blinks to prevent the use of aura reading.
2: Spasmodic addon as a basekit requirement preventing the two tap she can do so easily and making her an M1 killer at point (this would require lots of additional changes though).
That's exactly what I say about Nurse.
She breaks the game! Every other killer play "by DbD rules" except her. -
@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842323#Comment_3842323
The answer to "should you balance around high level or the average" depends entirely on the target audience. Games like LOL, DOTA, Street Fighter, Tekken, etc, are designed for competitive players and balance around the high level because those are they players they advertise to and built their game around. However, DBD is not really built to be a competitive game, and the developers no longer seek to appeal to competitive players. The fact that DBD has dropped official tournaments and releases new perks and characters every few months is proof enough of this, as is the ever growing list of never fixed spectator bugs. Their business and design models are aimed at casual players who come for the cool licenses and scary skins and maps. This is also why they hide MMR and have no real plans to change how loose its matchmaking is. Because the game's target audience is casual players, it should be balanced around the averages, which is how BHVR balances.
Nurse escapes a huge gutting for two primary reasons:
1 - Learning muscle memory for blinks is too hard for the average gamer, so low level nurses underperform significantly, thus skewing her stats.
2 - The developers have no idea how to resolve issues with the nurse at higher levels without fundamentally reworking her ability to travel through walls.
As another 4000+ hour player who mains blight, I can consistently win with sweaty builds and tunneling if I really want to, but I don't think the game should be designed around me. I can respect your opinion if you disagree, but this is why I think the game should be balanced around average players, because it is the playerbase that BHVR designs their game, updates, and advertising around.
Makes sense about being balanced the average player.
Thing is Nurse stomps even pro players, so something should be done.
The counter play for her is basically a mix of guess and bait that have a 50/50 chance of work. It's not something like Nemesis Whip that you can duck in certain loops or Wesker that gets screwed by a tree.@GeneralV said:
To be fair, Nurse did receive a few nerfs throughout the years. I remember when I first started playing DBD she could have 5 blinks with certain add-ons.
What has always been off the table is a complete rework, which I think is a good thing. DBD reworks have a really bad record.
Freddy? Worst one in the history of DBD.
Hillbilly? Everyone hated overheat.
Sadako? So bad it got reverted.
Twins? No need to explain this one.
I'll mention two exceptions: Leatherface and Skull Merchant. The rework to Leatherface was alright, and even though many people still dislike Skull Merchant I don't think her previous iteration, before the recent nerfs, was bad for the game.
But generally speaking reworks always have a high risk of failing. And considering Freddy's history, I think a massive rework that completely changes a character's identity shouldn't be done again.
I'm too against changing a killer's identity through their power.
Nurse should have the blinks much like Myers must have the tombstones, but in the former's case a rework needs to be done.
That's why I gave the suggestion I did a couple posts above.😊 -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432993/lets-talk-about-nurse
There was literally a thread about this yesterday, so i'll just copy/paste what i said in there.
Every time this thread comes up, i ask a simple question. Should the game be balanced around top tier players, or average level players?
In my opinion, multiplayer games should always be balanced around what the highest level players are capable of doing, while still making sure the game is fun for the average skill players. This is where you rework things that are bad in competitive play, but are complete "noob stompers" such as when LoL did that to champions like Xin Xhao, at one point, who was stomping pub games, but pretty bad in tournament play. Or the reverse, where something is really good in competitive play, but super hard to play so in low skill games it has a horrible win rate. That way the game is inherently balanced, and it gives players something to strive for that is valuable.
For some reason, the DBD community seems to think that you should balance this game around average skilled players. I disagree with that, but thus, i give you the stats.
The last official stats released:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/433
They put nurse at a 55% kill rate at 3rd from the bottom. Keep in mind that the stats are slightly deflated for doctor due to the "afk doctor" epidemic that was going on in some regions, and hillbilly changes had just barely gone live, and didn't include the removal of the overheat yet. Additionally, nearly every single time they release data, the nurse is the bottom of the list in terms of kill rate, usually far below the desired "60% kill rate" mark and making her by far the "worst killer in the game"
Even looking at the unofficial stats on nightlight, shows her having a 57% kill rate, not too far off that 55% kill rate the official stats put her at and killers like:
- lich
- pinhead
- sadako
- blight
- twins
- hag
- plague
- pig (yes pig)
- wraith
- freddy (yes freddy)
- leatherface
- oni
- chucky
- nemesis
- doctor
- dracula
- billy
- wesker
- dredge (yes dredge)
All have a higher kill rate than her. In fact, the unofficial stats put her only slight above the average 56.83% kill rate of all killers.
So i ask you again. Should games be balanced around what the most skilled players in the game are capable of? Or should they be balanced around the average player? When you look at the most skilled players in the world, generally you'll see that, assuming no outside rules like perk restrictions, or scoring systems, or any other things that the "comp scene" tries to put in place to balance the game, pretty much the only viable killers at that level, are nurse, spirit, and maybe blight (although i'm not as sure since the removal of hug tech).
So, if we were to balance around the highest skilled players in the game, then survivors likely need massive massive nerfs, or almost every killer needs massive massive buffs in order to compete. Then, if that is the case, THEN nurse can be nerfed.
But if the philosophy is that we balance the game around the "Average" players"? Well, then based on that, looking at official stats from BHVR, shows that nurse is in dire need of BUFFS to bring her more in line with the super strong killers like… freddy…. and pig….
And the unofficial stats show her as the shining beacon of design and balance for what this game should be balanced around, a perfectly "average" killer.
Keep in mind i say these things as a player who:
- Has 4k hours
- Is a nurse main
- Literally cannot remember the last time i lost a game as nurse (i do draw on rare occasion)
- Thinks nurse should be nerfed
- Thinks that survivors as a whole need to have their "power" toned down significantly, mostly in terms of nerfing loops and not increasing gen times
- If anything i think gens should be shorter
So one last time, i ask you, should this game be balanced around high skill players, or average skill players?
Wow!
Nice reading (for me).😊
Thanks for sharing.
I go aboard the "balance around high skill lvl". This would make people have to work hard and become better players which in turn would create better, more enjoyable matches. There's no joy in getting stomped or a easy win.
"Thinks that survivors as a whole need to have their "power" toned down significantly, mostly in terms of nerfing loops and not increasing gen times".
Have to quote this again because this is SO TRUE. If survs beat you because they were better at chase is one thing (and it's totally ok), but not when the killer simply had no time to do anything. Gen speeds are indeed a big issue. Broken loops for survs also, but gen speed is a much worse problem. Survs are so busted that they need to have a ton of restrictions on tournaments. This only argument by itself proves that they are powerful.
Nerfing survs until they get balanced would make possible to win more with other killers, which would also counter…@SuspiciousBrownie said:
Definitely needs more nerfs honestly. She’s gotten many perks nerfed and has no doubt prevented countless perks from ever making it past the concept phase. On top of keeping a lot of mediocre perks awful because if they were stronger they would be insane on her.
Even a mediocre Nurse player can 4k almost every game and A nurse with 50 hours would easily outperform any other killer in the game with 100 hours. I genuinely don’t think I have ever lost a single time as Nurse except for 2 matches where I wasn’t used to indoor map blinking.
I doubt she will ever be nerfed much more because she is basically the reason why Devs can say that this game isn’t pay to win.
the "she is basically the reason why Devs can say that this game isn’t pay to win" thing.
Sadly a lot of what Nurse does is screwing up the other killers.😥
Also people say she's hard to master, but being the Platinum Trophy addicted that I am I had to get the 500 Blinks trophy and have to say that if you play her 50 hours you get to X skill lvl and the same 50 hours on other killers still makes you mediocre with them.
Here's something I've found on reddit some time ago that I think would be a great start on a rework for her.
"My idea is to make her 110 or 115%, plaid flannel base kit, starts the trial with no blinks. No more fatigue on blinks. Blinks do not recharge automatically. As survivors breath near her, her blinks charge. Closer and heavier breathing (ex. Being chased) charges faster. A healthy survivor crouching in a corner, charges slow. Max blinks 5 or 7. So basically she has to earn her power, and choose when to use her blinks. She could use all 5 in a single chase to guarantee a down but then she has no blinks until she chases survivors for a while. And she can chase normally this way."