Crowman
Crowman
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066933#Comment_3066933
If you play her on average with no add-on's. I'm sure many people can tell you that playing base-kit pig does not yield many head-pops. you have more time to search boxes compare to head-trap killing you. Some people think she is worst killer in the game, but she really is not.
here is small rant
Pig at old-base kit. She on average with her rng traps would get an average of 2.5 searches. I am going round it down to 2. each jigsaw takes 12 seconds by default. If the pig successfully places 4 traps on the survivor. she delays the game by 24 seconds four times. if we consider the time it takes to walk to each box, the time increases significantly. Current-base kit has an average of 3 searches and gains a total of 12 searches. 12x12 second is considerable amount of time not spend on doing generators.
Just about every killer could use her reverse bear-trap system as base-kit and all of them would just be stronger. according to their stats in regards to killer perks, most of the killer do in fact use perks that slowdown the game and emulate this system(See pick-rates for corrupt intervention, pop goes weasel, scourge hook pain res and Hex:Ruin).
While idk how possible is to do now (also disclaimer I haven't fully watched the otz video either) but at least before maps like midwich and certain addons could lead to head pops without the pig actively pressuring the survivor which I don't see as being very balanced.
This comment is like Peanut's comment regarding scourge hook pain resonance. All you need to do is just hook the survivor and you get regression! All you need to do is down the survivor and put a reverse bear trap on the survivor. peanut makes it sound so simple.
The pig is downing survivors. How is pig not actively pressuring survivors?
I'm saying that the pig shouldn't be able to reliably get head pops without pressuring survivors off of boxes. I don't see the pig needing to down you first being a huge difference to that, because a killer shouldn't be able to consistently get kills after a single down without being an active threat against that survivor. Combination of addons and maps that create situations where survivors cannot reasonable search all the boxes (on a consistent basis) without the pig running any kind of interference is a problem that deserves to dealt with.
Obviously if the survivor greeds or make mistakes on searching boxes, then it's still fair for them to die as they still had the opportunity to search the boxes they needed to, but failed to do so.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066897#Comment_3066897
yeah in theory you can slug and get 4 head pops, but in practice, hooking is relevant for pig because of her head-trap give a minimal reward for game-slowdown with max reward of a mori. I would say she falls in lines of getting few kills with generator delay and few kills with reverse trap mori's. Of course Mori aspect is not base-kit and requires add-ons.
i would say that myer's with judith tombstone and Sadako condemn are entirely based off mori's. these are a bit more tricky to balance.
It's not fair to say that pig's mori aspect isn't base kit. It's still possible to earn mori kills without any addons but requires the pig to really be pressuring the boxes.
What I believe is tricky to balance are the addons that make it easier to headpop. While idk how possible is to do now (also disclaimer I haven't fully watched the otz video either) but at least before maps like midwich and certain addons could lead to head pops without the pig actively pressuring the survivor which I don't see as being very balanced. Now the 5th box should make it harder for that to happen but if the pig is able to get kills without being an active threat towards activated traps it would warrant a nerf.
Granted this isn't purely a power issue and is slightly a map issue.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066659#Comment_3066659
these add-on were already nerfed, old tamper timer was 30 seconds. new one is 20 seconds. Crate of gears was 33% slower boxes. new one is 25%.
@Crowman its not anymore rng. it used to be RNG. Almo wrote a post explaining how new pig boxes work. it is consistent ability. survivors are suppose to not get downed by the pig as her chase is not strong and if they do get downed, they can 99% generators to give the survivor more time to search through boxes. it doesn't need any negatives changes. people need to stop call pig the worst killer in the game when she uses good add-ons and learn to play against her ability.
The traps are still rng. They just are more controlled to not allow situations of everyone taking 4 attempts to get the trap off out everyone getting it off first time. A survivor getting lucky and having 1-2 search attempts means that 1 of 2 of his teammates have 4 search attempts. I did a write up on the odds but I would have to find it.
Also I was not suggesting she needed a nerf. Just that her power is tricky to balance due to the power of instant killing survivors without hooking (in theory).
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@Obelt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066657#Comment_3066657
I didnt say it wasnt out just that it was new
Just the way you worded it sounds like you thought it was coming this midchapter patch.
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There's one rather niche situation that requires some form coordination where "heal teching" actually does anything. Otherwise the survivor(s) "heal teching" can just be hit and the survivor when picked up can just be instantly downed. It only does anything if gates are open and the survivor is downed close to the open gate. And honestly the situation where you have 3-4 survivors alive and a gate open means the killer had messed up so I don't see it being an issue.
Hitboxes in the game need work and I do agree that the survivor hitbox not matching the where the survivor visually is while healing is a problem that should be fixed.
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The pig rng is already out though.
But pig's power is just hard to balance due to the nature of being an instant kill ability.
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@Lecruidant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066046#Comment_3066046
So a playstyle that locks you out of actually PLAYING is healthy? Do you hear yourself? At that point there is no reason to actually load up and play said game. Is that what the devs want? Think real hard about that
You are not being locked out of playing. The survivor role by design is one that gets eliminated by the killer. Being on hooked by design removes a lot of individual options and relies on teammates being able to save you. Slugging by design is similar to being hooked, but there's more perks that can aid you while slugged and you can still move towards teammates for pick ups.
At no point is the killer who is tunneling or camping you preventing you from playing the match, you are simply dealing with the fact that by design survivors sometimes don't have much control over what happens.
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You can't really do anything about bad teammates in dbd. DBD has no real way to be a solo carry unless you can somehow get the killer to chase to you for all 5 gens and you'll still have to hope your teammates will save you if you do get caught after the last gen is finished.
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I'd rather not prevent killers from using perks that synergize well with their power. Otherwise we get the situation where every killer is running the same exact perks.
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There is a public dbd server that the devs are a part of, but afaik the devs aren't running the discord server.
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Killer Instinct exists to not be counterable. It's why you don't see perks giving killer Instinct and it's solely tied to a killers power.
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Killers are already getting quite sizeable basekit buffs. They don't need something as extreme as conditional expose.
Not to mention this would largely be a buff to killers who don't need it (like Nurse) while not helping killers who use a buff. Freddy won't expose asleep survivors. Trapper/Ghostface/Pig can just be ran from.
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STBfL won't see a huge increase in usage. A lot of killers still don't have much benefit for running it.
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@Lecruidant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061741#Comment_3061741
"Survivors can gen rush"
Why do all ######### killers use this miserable excuse. That's the ONLY objective the survivors have when spawning in. Period. You have 4 people to thwack around. But you choose one person and go full monkey brain chasing and when 3 gens pop because of it, all of a sudden you were "Gen Rushed".
And killers only objective is to kill survivors and guess what tunneling and camping accomplish.
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Trickster already received a nerf to his total knife count and it already made it much harder for him to take on multiple chases without having to reload.
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@Dsnooz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061199#Comment_3061199
They already have the code built in to PH's cages so it's doable. I still think basement hooks should be static for the drama.
Hooks should always be static. Survivors are already capable of denying a hook in the first place and hooks are a huge form of pressure the killer can provide. Hook a survivor in a middle of a 3 gen only to have it teleport away for a free unhook is absolutely unfair to the killer who managed to down a survivor close to the zone he wants to defend and was able to get the hook.
PH only has that mechanic of cage teleportation because cages can be facecamped in a way that prevents being able to free the survivor from the cage and there's no risk of losing the "hook" if PH cages you.
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@Onyx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061074#Comment_3061074
No, it's not a player elimination game, because only killers get to eliminate survivors. You can only apply that logic to actual PvP games, where both teams are balanced and both teams can eliminate the competition. THAT is player elimination, this is a cat and mouse game. It's not the killing that is fun, it's the thrill of the hunt, the chases.
It's still a player elimination game, just an asymmetrical one. If you don't like the fact the game is designed around the killer killing survivors and removing them from the match, then maybe dbd just isn't for you.
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You have perk options to pick yourself up. You can crawl towards teammates to get picked up.
There's many reasons why a killer needs to slug the survivor they just downed.
Nothing needs to be changed.
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@Onyx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060996#Comment_3060996
Dude, it's a game, games are meant to be fun and this "tactic" is unfun and unhealthy for the game. This is not a competitive game. Also what is with these excuses. You sound like someone who never plays survivor, which would explain a lot. If a tactic removes a player prematurely the tactic should be patched. I have never seen any other multiplayer game that literally lets you eliminate an opponent early and have them do nothing for the rest of the match but watch.
And mind I remind you, DbD is the only asymm game out there that is popular and still going, you can't just say "It's a player elimination game" as if you can compare it with any other game. Every other game still gives you a chance to get revived after elimination and are usually so high-paced that matches end really quick so it doesn't matter that you die. You go in, have like a 5 min match and it's done. Or you die first round, but then are back next round all healthy and ready to go!
I've played more survivor this year than killer. Tunneling and camping are not something that need to be removed from the game. There are valid reasons to tunnel or camp.
And there's nothing premature about dying as a survivor in dbd. The point of the game is survivors try to escape and killers try to kill. If a killer kills you there was nothing premature about it.
And yes I can just say it's a player elimination game because that is what it is.
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@Onyx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059779#Comment_3059779
Just because it isn't against the rules doesn't mean it shouldn't be removed. They are simply not fun and, like missionhunter said, DbD is ultimately a game, and games should be fun. I simply do not understand this logic of "it's a valid strategy, people should not be punished for it". Like, nah bruh, you should get punished for essentially stopping others from playing the god damn game. Literally no excuse for not removing these strategies entirely. Killers want survivors to just accept deaths because they want kills, well I say maybe killers should accept that they can't get 3-4ks every game, or literally any kills at all sometimes.
Game should not be balanced around kills, around camping and tunneling, it should be balanced around playing fair. The devs should put less emphasis on killing and escaping and more on actually participating in the match. Put more emphasis on chases!
It's a player elimination game. Of course the game is going to balanced around killing survivors.
Just because you personally don't like these tactics does not mean they should be removed.
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So the Leatherface starts revving his chainsaw at 10m and then walks closer as you go to unhook.
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Grabs barely work at times and survivors can easily cancel unhooks to avoid grabs, so I have no real opinion towards removing grabs.
Restricting the ability to use your power around hooks not only feels bad to play, but often is an unnecessary restriction as killers can just step far enough way to use their power while getting punished on multi-level maps if they end up chasing a survivor under/over a hooked survivor. I like things such as Dredge not being able to teleport to lockers nearby a hooked survivor, but still being able to use his power around the hook as it doesn't directly hinder the feel of the killer. I rather dislike Artist not being able to place crows close to the hook, because it gets really frustrating trying to find the right spot to put the crows just to scout after a hook. It doesn't accomplish much besides adding extra clunkiness to the power.
The basement is meant to be a strong place to defend hooks. The basement is generally near strong tiles so it's a trade off. You risk going into the basement to take advantage of the strong tiles nearby. It's the only natively strong hook area for killers on every map.
I'm not sure why you dislike BT. Some perks exist to improve your ability to be altruistic. Some perks exist to improve your own survivability. If you want safer unhooks, desperate measures and no one left behind both increase unhook speed. BT does not need to be changed to make it safer for you to unhook another survivor.
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First that wouldn't really stop people from tunneling or camping. Matchmaking doesn't even use grades so it wouldn't accomplish anything anyways.
Second tunneling and camping isn't against the rules and there's no reason to punish killers who do so. Killers do lose some emblem scoring if they stay around a hook the entire time and survivors can just do gens and punish the gatekeeper emblem.
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Crouching has nothing to do with his mark speed. Leaning doubles the speed that Ghostface stalks from which turns 5 seconds of non-leaning into 2.5 seconds of leaning.
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The distance part got nerfed which is what a lot of complaints towards the perk was on. The perk is now solely meant for dodging attacks and now that's a problem too?
What do you want Dead Hard to do then?
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This is not really a new issue.
Survivors already suicide over anything regardless if the killer is playing an "annoying" build. Solo Queue is already nightmarish for survivor teammates who give up immediately because they went down despite the fact that multiple gens were about to pop and the survivor team was in a winning situation.
Kill rates are not going to see significant improvement from survivors suiciding on hook, because it's already an issue.
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Nurse is the hardest killer to learn, because she's the only killer in the game who has to use their power to get hits. Other killers who are harder to master like Blight can still just chase survivors and use M1 for hits without using their power. Nurse cannot do this unless the survivor just run at her.
But once you learn the muscle memory for her blinks that's really it. There's not anything mechanically complicated to learn after that.
While she's not the hardest killer in the game to master, she's certainly the hardest killer in the game to play since there's no fallback to being bad at her power.
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Mending takes time and you are putting yourself at risk to be chased and downed since a Deep Wound survivor has no additional health states.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056873#Comment_3056873
Oh ok that's good to know for pinhead but what about legion? Does it still apply
Legion has to Feral Frenzy the survivor giving them an on hit speed boost and then catch up and cancel his power. Legion is certainly stronger against Dead Hard basekit, but can't really bypass OTR or BT.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056837#Comment_3056837
If it counters bt (and I'm assuming the basekit bt from the unhook) doesn't that make tunneling easier?
Also anything that nerf Mettle Of Man eveb more is bad
Survivors have a post hook immunity to chains for 3 seconds. So Pinhead only counters the perk BT and not the base-kit buff.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056797#Comment_3056797
Good to see a weak addon getting a buff, although the chains already prevent pressing E, so it might not be as useful as people think.
It counters OTR, BT, and MoM.
Also while survivors can't Dead Hard while chainned. I've had many situations in the past where survivors Dead Hard immediately as the last chain breaks as I'm swinging since Pinhead breaks his own chains and sometimes you have no other options but to break your own chains during the swing.
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Pinhead has an addon to deep wound injured survivors who break the chains. So that's going to see a lot more use now.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056497#Comment_3056497
They most definitely do not. I very much remember people getting salty on here when they were told that Ruin does not work while a gen is blocked.
There is a bug where gens do currently regress while blocked. Idk if it got fixed since I last played during the event.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056439#Comment_3056439
I'm unsure of the wording. Is it 100% speed at 12 seconds, or is it that after 12 seconds it would have regressed the same amount as if it was regressing at 100% speed the whole time?
The dev blog states:
"Overcharge becomes faster than the default regression after only 12 seconds. Overcharge can still be combined with Call of Brine to offset the reduced speed."
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056542#Comment_3056542
Thanks, I just read it and oh my gosh.
They nerfed Overcharge into the ground and refused to acknowledge how broken Off the Record is.
Just wonderful 🤡🤡🤡
They nerfed endurance stacking and made OTR not work in end game.
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@dugman said:
I think you’re maybe misreading how Overcharge works. It ramps up to 400% regression over 30 seconds and then keeps regressing at that rate.
The dev blog said they changed it to be 75% to 200% (hitting 100% @ 12 seconds in). It's kind of worse than Call of Brine now since the only redeeming feature is the skill check when a survivor touches the gen which is not hard to hit once survivors are aware of it.
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@foodie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055690#Comment_3055690
Im describing use brain and dont trigger traps. Why wouldn't I go back if you make noise on purpose whilst knowing you're one shot from MYC. I think you need to understand what camping is. I'm letting you save and giving you a choice
I know what camping is. And you are playing a hag build designed to allow you to pressure hooks and get trades in the same way as if you were camping the hook.
You can put whatever noble spin about how you consider it to be different, but trapping hooks as hag is still effectively camping.
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@foodie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055668#Comment_3055668
When I play hag and have a survivor hooked, I do other things like retrap, kick gens, break pallets, chase other people if I find any. And yes, if MYC goes off and the survivors trigger my trap, you're right I will teleport back, but I will go for the person that unhooked and NOT the person that was unhooked.
It's called MYC for a reason, and unlike other killers Hag doesn't have a 1 shot power or add-ons.
I give 2 chances. If you trigger MYC and don't trigger the trap then the chances are I won't be able to find you even if I ran back manually. Hag is a slow killer.
If you trigger MYC and my trap, you deserve to go down by it. It's simple to not trigger my trap at the hook, it's your choice. And that the 2nd chance, 2nd make your choice. You can either save without triggering my trap or you can be confident in yourself and do it anyway.
You are simply describing camping, but with extra steps. You are still putting the same pressure on the hook regardless if you are physically there or not.
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Buckle Up does two things and both things are just not good enough to warrant the perk to see any actual use.
Show the aura intensity to show how recovered a down survivor is. This is nearly useless. First it's not even a global effect, you have to be within range. It rarely matters how much recovered a survivor is as you'll often just trade if the killer is too close to the downed survivor and if they aren't you have enough time to pick them up anyways.
Then both you and the survivor you picked up can see the killer's aura. Which is okay, but not really worth the slot as generally the killer is close by and you've accepted to trade as it is or the killer is on the other side of the map where it hardly matters that you can see the killer.
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DBD is an 4v1 elimination game. The killer is trying to eliminate the survivors from the game. Forcing a death as quickly as possible helps you snowball to eliminate the rest of the survivor team.
Camping is also useful at times to force hook states since spending some time to make sure a survivor goes into next state is more beneficial than letting them get unhooked and having to hook them again. Especially when you the hook survivor near gens you want to defend or the survivor team is around the hook waiting for you to leave.
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@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054624#Comment_3054624
He can't really quickscope that anymore so you actually have time to react. It is much more manageable for survivors.
You still can't vault or go for the pallet while deathslinger is aiming right there. And he loses less distance doing so. His zoning game is much stronger and since it doesn't require actually needing to make shots it doesn't really require much skill.
Quickscoping required actual skill and the chain break existed as a mechanic to give survivors an ability to deny the down. Which is also broken, because deathslinger can just walk backwards denying survivors the ability to engage in that counterplay.
Basically the deathslinger nerfs were garbage. They nerfed things that took skill, made the unskilled things that people complained about better and because you barely see deathslingers anymore because he feels bad to play as no one complains about it.
At the end of the day quickscoping was never the core issue. It gave Deathslinger players something fun and skillful to play around.
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@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054488#Comment_3054488
IT was an issue - that's why it got nerfed like that. And for the same reason like Pyramid Heads Cooldown got nerfed. Faking your ability like that takes 0 skill, counters way too many things + their is no room for reacting to Deathslinger scope. And the Chainbreak mechanic does not counter Quickscoping btw.
And nothing has been done about Deathslinger being able to fake his power as it's just as strong if not stronger than it was before due to the movement speed buff.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
While slinger might not feel as great to use as he did before, the ADS nerf was unfortunately necessary. Quickscoping just wasn’t good design in a game like DBD - it’s not an FPS game and shouldn’t be treated like one. I do think he could use some improvements in other areas though.
As for Twins, you should be allowed to switch back to Charlotte faster after downing someone with Victor. The cooldown should only stay at 5 seconds if you intend to continue using Victor, as that was the whole point of that nerf.
Deathslinger has the entire chain break mechanic to act as counterplay to being hit. Quickscoping was never an issue.
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@MrMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053876#Comment_3053876
He really didn't need nerfs. His stuggles have always been the 4v1 considering how long he has to spend reloading mid chase, between missed shots, and after getting his down. All of this takes time.
I agree with @TheDarkTyrant, so many killers are clunky and simply feel bad to use. Have you tried using base kit Pigs power in chase? Why on earth are the numbers as punishing and clunky as they are now? 1.3 seconds to crouch and uncrouch, 0.75 seconds to charge up a dash, on top of 4 seconds fadeout AFTER the 1.3 seconds to crouch before your terror radius is gone.
Same with Freddy, you have to charge up your snare, then release it, and it hardly does anything. And why can't survivors start in the dream? Or make the addon that prevents releasing yourself with a failed skillcheck basekit?
Or like mentioned Slinger, 0.4 seconds ADS? Why? If the issue was spamming aim and release without losing distance, just make the ADS 0.2 and his MS while aiming 70%, down from 80% right now. That way every time you aim in and release, you lose a lot of distance as you're slowed while aiming and releasing the ADS. Also revert the Terror Radius to 24 and add a lullaby.
I could go on and on, but in short, most of the killers on the bottom of the roster aren't even that bad in theory or in concept, they're just held back by super terrible numbers. Boggles the mind why they can't just change the numbers in one patch and test if it improves killer variety.
Deathslinger doesn't need a lullaby.
People were complaining that spine chill was becoming useless when the devs initially announced it would only work on LoS to killer. Deathslinger requires LoS to hit you with a spear so having the ability to reduce his terror radius to lower than his 18m range is not a huge problem that ever needed to be removed. With M&A, there's a 2m range where you won't have a TR that he could hit you at, but those shots at 16-18m are the easiest to break out of it.
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@Lecruidant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052882#Comment_3052882
I load the game up with the intent of actually wanting and being able to play the game. If the game spawns me holding hands with the killer, and that killer proceeds to chase and down me then proxy and tunnel me out of the game. That's not me being a sore loser. That's me wanting to get out of a ######### experience.
Also for the people who actually DO DC. Why is the Killer the ONLY one rewarded with points. The remaining survivors who put up with bullshit after the DC should also get points as well. They didn't ask for the DC or the extra weight that gets put on them at 4-5 gens remaining.
Getting tunneled out of a game still means you were playing the game. Quitting just because you don't like how your opponent is beating you is being a sore loser.
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@Swampoffering said:
The only thing that Behaviour should fix about DC penalty is the detection.
If you dc manually by closing the game or leaving and if you have net interruptions or crashes.
The rest is fine, people who dc on purpose are garbage.
There's fundamentally no way to tell if a d/c was intentional (rage quit) or an accident such as the internet going out. Because people can always turn their router off.
In situations where you have the internet go out beyond your own control, a 5 minute penalty is short enough that you can get your internet fix and be able to queue up into a new game. If you keep having internet issues and get a higher penalty than you need to look into the issue on your end as it's not good for you to go into games knowing you have a high chance to disconnect.
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In my experience, you can let survivors go and they'll still be salty in end game chat. So I just find it better to not let them go.
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@xBlitzAce1989x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052870#Comment_3052870
The point of DCing at that point is because there is no point to remain if you've barely moved from the area. It's not like I was a sore loser in a SWF that DCed after getting outplayed.
You are being a sore loser. Accept your death and won't have a penalty.
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If you are dying do quickly you don't need to d/c.
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052703#Comment_3052703
Like, the hooks have a static position as for now, and when the Killer hooks someone, it teleports somewhere else? Then, maybe disable it for EGC. I think when the Killers camp during EGC, it's OK. The game is pretty much over so... If the Survivors aren't going together to save, it's on them. (But I understand people who prefer to escape when it's like Bubba camping.)
Teleporting the hook survivor for any reason is a bad idea.
Hooked survivors are a form of pressure. Hooking a survivor in the middle of a 3 gen and guarding that area is valid. Not to mention the basement exists as well which is an area intentionally set up to be strong to defend against unhooks.