Crowman
Crowman
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437767#Comment_3437767
Okay, that makes sense. In my opinion, what the math argument is lacking is that a white room ideal situation isn't going to be reflective of reality and, if it were that impactful, then I would expect to see BTL being picked far more often than it actually is.
The point of Otz doing the math was to show the chat why BLT is weaker than Scavenger, because Scavenger doesn't require wasting time in a locker to recharge the toolbox effectively allowing you to waste 0 time.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437702#Comment_3437702
Why would I want to use BTL on a toolbox more than once? Unless I'm hiding to avoid a Killer or trying to break a heavily contested 3 gen I'm recharging it once and done. Somebody with knowledge of how much time it saves isn't going to recharge it more than once. I like Otz but he made the same dire predictions about Hyperfocus if I remember correctly. He's fun to watch and a great player but he was wrong about Hyperfocus and he's wrong now.
That's just the math he shown on screen, because his chat was bringing up that BLT can be used more than once.
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@kisfenkin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437523#Comment_3437523
Otz created a clickbait fearmongering video. He totally ignored that there is already a perk that exists in the game that repairs you toolboxes, Built to Last, and it does it MORE THAN ONCE! It is already in game and it is already proven to NOT be overpowered.
SO, he just wants toolboxes nerfed and is hoping that if he lies to his audience about a new perk he can rile the fanatics up...
My advice, stop being a fanatic and start thinking things through for yourselves.
He went over BTL on stream yesterday.
A toolbox that shaves ~20 seconds, BTL takes 12 seconds to recharge and then you get another ~20 seconds. Net 8 seconds.
If you use BTL again, you waste 12 seconds for ~12 seconds. Net 0 seconds.
If you use BTL again, you waste 12 seconds for ~8 seconds. Net loss of 4 seconds.
Scavenger does not require you to waste time in a locker to recharge the 20 second saving toolbox. You just double the value of whatever toolbox you are carrying at no cost.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437654#Comment_3437654
You didn't read my original post, or are completely disregarding it. That is in no way fair. You're responding as if I am asking for unconditional, unlimited dashing from start to end of match. That is not what I said at all. You are completely irrational about this.
The mori ability is limited. There's only 4 survivors in a trial.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437199#Comment_3437199
You mean after all 5 gens are done and the exit gate is half way open? I did say that this idea of a dash would have its limits. Its interesting you make such a comparison in power after reading my whole post, if you even did that. You're more than welcome to create your own thread about ideas you'd like to see implemented for killers. This thread is about giving survivors a dash ability.
If you want survivors to have a dash ability from the start of the game, then killers should have an instant kill healthy survivor ability from the start of the game.
Only fair.
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Blood Rush is a very situational perk.
Hyperfocus kind of requires a specific build to make work, though supposedly if you can raise your fps it makes hitting greats easier.
Scavenger is not that situational and by contrast to Hyperfocus doesn't require a specific build to make work. It basically doubles any toolbox you bring into the match and unlike Built to Last does not require you waste time in a locker. Sure you have to hit 4 greats to recharge your toolbox, but you do not have to hit them in a row.
Honestly the perk's problem really boils down to toolboxes rather than the perk itself. Because no one would really bat an eye about this perk recharging a brown addonless toolbox.
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Survivors can have a basekit dash ability if killers get the ability to instant kill healthy survivors.
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@Ghouled_Mojo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436570#Comment_3436570
And having survivors quit the match or suicide isn’t punishing the other players for being tired of playing against the same killer two or three times in a row?
Survivors being babies isn't solved by increasing killers queue times.
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@Ghouled_Mojo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436521#Comment_3436521
Just means survivors won’t play so many robes against the same killer. No one is being punished.
Increasing the matchmaking times for popular killers is punishing people for playing popular killers.
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Outside of Map Offerings which already ignore the duplicate map prevention system, players don't control what map the game sends them too.
Players do control what killer they play as and creating a system that punishes people for playing popular killers is going to hurt the game in the long run.
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His power prevents survivors from running and slows them down. That's already a reward. I don't think Pinhead really needs any of his addons to become basekit.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435697#Comment_3435697
I assume it's still precent of total progress rather than a flat 30%.
The patch notes state current progress
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Not every status effect needs to be applyable from perks. While Killer instinct isn't a status effect, it also is a killer power only tool. And that's fine.
There's nothing unhealthy about the current forms of incapacitation, because it forces survivors to spend time interacting with a killer power.
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While 16m is long, remember that 10-16m is suppose to charge up slowly. Without the numbers to judge how fast the bar charges up at each range and the effect of each survivor in range, I don't see a reason to get up in arms over the feature yet.
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OoO change was a swf nerf because the perk was way too effective when someone could coordinate the info.
But ultimately it's hard to strictly nerf swf. Swf power comes from the ability to pick their teammates and the ability to communicate information not normally available in the game. Neither of which are things you can nerf within the game.
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If the system works to tackle solely facecamping, then you can still proxy camp with killers like Huntress. You should still be able to go in to force the next hook state since it's a build up. You can still defend a hook against survivors rushing to unhook. Basement is still deadly due to the 1 way out and you can still watch the single entrance.
The only thing, assuming it the values are right, is that you can't just down a survivor, put them on a hook, and stand in front of them until they die unless the gens are all done. Which is fine, because even as someone who plays killer, there's little value in facecamping and having it being practically removed from the game is fine.
Of course this all depends on the exact numbers as it's possible the system is too weak or too strong against normal gameplay.
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The devs moved the broadcast because it was getting leaked according to their official statement today on Twitter
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431604#Comment_3431604
I hope the penalty radius for this mechanic takes into account ranged killers like Huntress and Trickster, who can camp just outside the radius and still deny or easily hook trade any rescuers.
Killers that can "camp from a distance," like Nurse, Hag, Hillbilly (and Oni to a degree), are another thing for the devs to consider.
Ghostface and Shape could possibly stalk and expose the rescuer from outside the penalty radius, but is that considered face camping at that point?
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Another thing is killer powers. What's the point of self-unhook if Cannibal can chew through endurance as soon as you unhook yourself?
When the meter fills up and the survivor unhooks themself, the penalty mechanic should also disable the killer's power for a brief duration, in my opinion.
Another thing is mult-level maps, because distance calculations in dbd never factor height.
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We don't even know the values of how fast it charges up or the range.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431574#Comment_3431574
Actually sounds like a great mechanic.
If each additional survivor slows it down by at least 30% (maybe as much as 50%), and it's cumulative, then it'll be perfect.
It's one of those features we need to see the actual values for , because it could be easy be not very effective or could easily be too strong against normal gameplay.
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Looks like they are working on anti-face camping measures.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431227#Comment_3431227
This excuse is problematic because its the same type of people who get crushed by SWF's and people that are actually good at the game and get on the forums crying about how survivors sided the game is.
You could say that people who complain about tunneling and how they can't escape are just not good at the game as well.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430645#Comment_3430645
What about killer players who have trouble hearing? Being able to locate survivors by sounds, especially injured ones, is a huge part of the game. A similar visual indicator for killers also would not give them information that they don’t already have if they have good hearing ability.
I don't think Killer instinct is the proper indicator for sound clues in dbd. I'm all for killers to have this option as well, but killer instinct is designed as a tracking tool and it would be a buff to turn a tracking tool into an accessibility feature.
There are other ways to represent direction of sounds and their intensity on screen that don't involve giving Killer instinct.
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@SixShotOcelot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430590#Comment_3430590
This does not acknowledge, nor answer, "why they did not give us information regarding the anniversary stream event prior to today".
Why not let people know Friday (May 12th), "In one week, Anniversary Stream Friday May 19th! Keep an eye on twitter for more details to come"?
or "No confirmed date however the DbD Anniversary Stream will be on a Friday toward the end of May".
Literally any information that is more than 1.5 days advance notice would have been appreciated.
Again, I am trying to understand "why a decision was made to withhold communication with the players regarding the timing of when the Anniversary Stream would take place", NOT "why actions were taken after 'X' happened".
Likely the stream was meant to be on a later date and the devs didn't feel the need to announce the stream date yet since it was still far off. Then on the day when unofficial things were circulating the internet, we get an announcement for this Friday is the stream.
It's way too coincidental. While there is a possibility the stream was always meant for this Friday, it seems very unlikely given the timing of everything else. Of course we'll never know the exact answer and this is the best guess anyone in the community can really give you since the devs will never touch a discussion about unofficial stuff.
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Being undetectable doesn't really help Legion too much, because he can't get Killer Instinct tracker without his TR. Now Dark Devotion does create a new TR around the obsession so survivors staying around the obsession will show Killer Instinct. Which I can't imagine is more useful than his normal TR tracking, but it's at least something interesting he can do with a relatively unused perk.
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@deifi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430198#Comment_3430198
Disagree - every killer that plays this uses headsets so 75% noise reduction is useless. Every horror movie has a "survivor" who hides their audio while hiding under a bed or closet. What kind of survivor runs around moaning like they're in porno?
However, you can vote and the polls will decide
A headset is not able to isolate specific sounds. A headset will only make all sounds louder which means if you are by ambient noises, you'll still be harder to detect. Basically it forces you to play smarter.
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75% already reduces the range of which killers can realistically hear survivors. Which is fair, because survivors shouldn't be able to stand next to the killer and be unheard.
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BHVR confirmed Nic Cage will have his own perks
https://twitter.com/johnwanggd/status/1658858525521596416 -
I think you're overthinking it. It more than likely keep an eye out, because they are likely announcing the anniversary stream soon.
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Map bans could work. Give both sides 1 map ban, survivors can each vote for a map to be banned, but the one with the most votes is chosen to be banned otherwise it randomly selects a map.
Killer bans should never happen.
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I think there is a problem with some stuff being too strong in the game, but I don't think there's really much that truly carries people against higher skilled opponents.
Also player numbers are not dwindling, they are pretty stable.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427453#Comment_3427453
Killers using best tactics aren't unskilled - Why that technically is true, I think someone who hunted an eagle with a throwing knife did better than the person using a flak cannon. That flak cannon user could be just as precise as the person using the throwing knife, but in this game more often than not it is because they lacked that skill, that they needed to resort to being carried by their choice of tools instead (be that Killer pick/add-ons/perks or strategies in game). People with the confidence and skill to hunt with throwing knives, like to bring throwing knives in order to show off their skill. People who want to get the 'free win' of a successful 'hunt' have a greater tendency to bring the flak cannon.
Getting mad at players using the best tools is toxic - Gunna have to hard disagree on multiple fronts to this claim. You can get mad at whatever you want, as long as you aren't taking it out of the game. Saying 'not cool' in endgame chat is far from toxic, whereas doxing them is clearly inappropriate. Also if I wanted a chill middle-ground shotgun game, but got a flak cannon opponent like mentioned above, the flak cannoneer just wasted everyone's time other than their own. Due to the asymmetrical nature of the game, all of the Survs need to be flak cannoneers to be equal to a Killer being the same. So luckily in that regard, only 1 soloq Surv being a jerk doesn't (strictly) destroy the match's potential for enjoyment. That being said map offerings are the closest to full jerk territory, regardless of the side (with an exception for T1 Myers, who is nearly only viable with an indoor map).
You haven't given a reason to not use the flak cannon. No matter how skilled you are, the flak cannon is the better tool for the job.
And yes it is toxic to shame people for using the best tools. It'll be like telling artists their works have no value because they used a computer instead of by hand.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427872#Comment_3427872
That's really silly, the survivor took a perk (say Deliverance) and he also managed to activate it. Why should the game rob him of this. Not to mention that the killer skipping two stages for last survivor has been a buff for a long time. Killers play this strategy where if a person has not being hooked they just hook them last to avoid hook states being used as resources.
Imagine Blood Warden only working if you got at least one kill before EGC, but being inactive if all 4 are alive by EGC. That would be a huge nerf to killer end game. Having Deliverance should grant the user the possibility to unhook themselves even if they're the last one remaining. If survivors have to play safe during end game out of fear for Blood Warden, killers should also play cautiously over Deliverance and not forgoing someone's hook stages just because. It would only buff solo survivor. SWF doesn't benefit from it because they a;ready have the co-ordination to use their hook states as resources for each other.
Killers can already tunnel and camp.
If you get hooked before you activate deliverance you get "robbed" of it. Ultimately you are bringing a perk that isn't guaranteed to be used in the first place and saving it for a situation where you will die anyways.
And blood warden is already easy for survivors to deny by 99% gates and just leaving before the killer gets the hook.
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427861#Comment_3427861
Again, why rob the survivor of his Kobe chances. Why would the game rob one side of anything for the time convenience of the other? Why allow slugging to rob survivors of 4 minutes for half a decade? Your excuse doesn't add up.
BHVR took away last survivor kobe chance out of respect for killer main's time, at the expense of the survivor for years. So long that in your mind it actually seems like an okay trade-off.
The killer is a single player team facing a team of 4 people. It's fine if the killer gets the kill in this scenario. And as I said, the devs have currently show interest in solving the 4 minute slugging issue as well.
The change to hooks in the last survivor situation has been in the game for years and something survivors just need to play around. A survivor who goes out of their way to avoid the killer for the chance to unhook themselves as the last survivor remaining is simply a bad teammate and shouldn't be rewarded.
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427847#Comment_3427847
Noone is asking the killer to wait 2 minutes. But at least give the survivor the 1st hook state (which isn't two minutes) and their 3 chances at an unhook.
That still leads to the same problem of survivors just waiting out the hook for as long as possible. The devs have been adding ways for the game to just end when outside of very niche scenarios the game is over and it's just needless waiting.
EGC exists to prevent hatch standoffs (there was a situation where people were waiting hours over hatch) and survivors just hiding and not escaping to spite the killer. The instant hook kill exists to end the game so people can't force waiting out 2 extra minutes. And the devs are looking to combat letting the last survivor bleed out with the end game mori.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427842#Comment_3427842
Oh. I didn’t realize you meant the idea they scrapped (basekit Unbreakable). Why would you say that’s something that shows an interest in circumventing 4-minute bleedouts? They could easily achieve that in a number of realistic, non-invasive ways. And I can’t agree that a failed PTB experiment shows any commitment or interest to resolving slugging.
It's hardly a failed experiment when it was a test on experimental changes they stated they plan to add to the game during the Chapter 6 anniversary stream that they said weren't ready to go live with.
And yes it prevents killers from just slugging the last guy forcing them to bleed out for 4 minutes which is the same thing when the last survivor could just stay on hook for 2 minutes out of spite.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427735#Comment_3427735
The devs want to address the 4-minute bleedout?
The PTB test for the mori system when there are no more survivors up is addressing it. Now the PTB had it's own share of issues, but the idea that the game ends once all survivors are dead, hooked, or in dying state at least addressed the ability for killers to needlessly extend the game by forcing bleed outs.
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There's an exploit with the perk that can allow you to access unreachable areas and effectively hold the game hostage.
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@xPrinceHarlequinx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427227#Comment_3427227
There is literally never a situation in which you NEED to slug two survivors and then go for a third. If you've gotten two people down, hook one of them.
If I've downed two survivors then I spot a 3rd hanging about trying to go for a save. Of course I'm going to slug the two and go after the 3rd, since I'm not just going to hand them a free save.
There are absolutely situations were slugging 2 people is the right move.
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It was added to prevent survivors from unnecessarily keeping the game from ending by just not letting themselves die on hook and forcing the full 2 minute wait.
Before someone mentions 4 minute bleedouts, it's clear the devs want to address that too with the ptb test about half a year ago.
I don't see a reason to change this on niche situation like yours.
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Tunneling at 4/5 gens is fundamentally no different than tunneling at 3 or less gens. There's no problem to solve. The survivors failed to get gens done before they lost a player and now they have to deal with the consequences.
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There's a few killer powers that don't work while blinded. Myers and Ghostface can't stalk while blinded.
There's hardly a need to bring back hard flashlight counters such as destroying traps or stunning the killer when you can just make it a base thing where a killer can't use their power while blinded. I know this is "less fun", but it's certainly more fair as there's far more interaction around blinding the killer.
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STBFL is not a problem. Many killers can already camp/tunnel effective without it and it's hardly an unstoppable perk. Some people really don't want to learn to play around things.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427475#Comment_3427475
- If he's afraid to chase other survivors then it means he's not comfy with his skills to win without hardcore tunneling.
- Works for killer too, bringing scourage hook, dead lock, pop can hold the other 3 or 2(cause 1 is always kinda not efficient cause he has to unhook the tunneled one) for much longer to finish the gens, noed can give u another free kill EVEN IF they finish the gens.
- If there's corrupt, not really, they have to be very efficient which your avg pubs team isn't, as i said not everyone is Hens' swf, majority arent.
- Yeah, your average team on pubs don't care and want to help the tunneled guy. only a swf can get to 1-0 gens left if u tunnel the avg survivor lol, it's very rare in a normal game without a swf.
- So? u can easily wait that bt, or cancel otr with the inital hit, DS is a joke and everyone knows that, DH won't work if u are mended already.
- I can trust my game sense, I consider myself a pretty good survivor but sadly my solo queue team mates are still not that much imo.
- It's not, it does for the avergae survivor who's not a good looper and gets angry and panicked when he's tunneled and needs to mends too with the black screen.
- Maybe on paper but a non cordinated team won't do it, you're only giving me some highly efficient SWF moves in your comments, do you ever play solo queue? maybe only killer.
Maybe you don't care but let me tell you, the reason they don't do that is cause they know they're skilled and they don't want easy wins, they want to entertain and they showcase it's possible to win by skills and not by taking an easy win route against the averge casual team. I put the blame on the survivors, I don't blame killers they can play how they want, I just want to make the community healtiher cause everyone would agree hardcore tunneling isn't healthy for the game imo.
You making the assumption that if you don't tunnel you are skilled. Which is false, because skilled players can still tunnel survivors out of the game. Not to mention it's just an excuse survivors throw out so they don't have to learn from their own mistakes they made.
"I died, but it wasn't my fault. The killer was just unskilled with tunneling therefore I made no mistakes"
The killer's main goal is to kill you. It doesn't matter if they focus you out first or if they spread the love out. If they successfully kill all 4 survivors, they played better. Downplaying the mistakes survivors made so you can feel better about dying is a toxic mindset and won't help you improve.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427464#Comment_3427464
Okay with this comment I see that I have to debunk your statment, let's start:
- your average survivor isn't a good player, most players aren't god loopers and they go down in 20-40 seconds to your normal M1 killer that knows basic mindgames and his killer power.
- That's why most killers bring lethal/corrupt for a good early start.
- Once you got your first hook, one survivor needs to leave his gen to go save(in solo queue sometimes it's 2-3 people leaving and wasting gen time).
- Once the survivors see you tunnel, their instinct kicks in and they want to protect their friends, they want him to have fun and not being tunneled out so fast cause we all know how unfun it is to be tunneled out when you're injured.
- Getting the 2nd and 3rd down on your avg tunneled survivor is easy cause he's avg at chase and he's already injured, if you wait the bt he's done and u get the 2nd/3rd hook pretty quickly.
- considering he gets 2nd and 3rd hooked so fast and 1/2 survviors try to protect him cause they want him to have fun more than they want to win means you already won the game, they won't be able to finish the gens.
- even if they were doing the gens while he's being tunneled, since he goes down so fast cause he's injured promises he'll die before enough gens be done to pressure you back.
- the avg survivor will be eliminated in 2 minutes, 3 survivors can't do 4-5 gens in 3 minutes especially when 1 tries to protect the panicked tunneled survivor.
Bonus - you still didn't answer my question about the streamers.. if you don't want to tell me.
- Survivors being bad does not mean the killer is bad for killing them
- Survivors can bring perks as well to help
- And yet survivors can still get 2-3 gens done before the first hook.
- There's always a time and a place for body blocks. Sometimes it is just better to let the killer chase the survivor and finish up gens instead of going for blocks. The survivor can be hooked twice before they are dead. Many games can be 0-1 gens left before that guy is killed unless there is a skill difference.
- Survivors have basekit bt now, You have OTR, DS, DH to help make tunneling you out take more time.
- You just need better game sense. AS I said there's a time and place for body blocks.
- Being injured does not mean you have to go down immediately. You can still put the killer on long chases even while injured. I had a game where a hag chased me for all 5 gens and there was an afk.
- A solo gen takes 90 seconds or 1.5 minutes. It's absolutely possible for 2-3 gens to be done in 2 minutes.
As for streamers, I don't watch streamers nor do I care about them. I also don't hold people I play with or against to the standard of streamers who play the game for a living.
All your complaints boil down to not wanting to put any blame on survivors for playing badly and just the killer for doing their job.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427459#Comment_3427459
There are many reasons lol, I can easily debunk that statement, I'll let you figure out yourself but if you can't I'll tell you why imo you're wrong with this idea.
The start of the game the killer is in the worst position. If the killer is able to not only keep gens from getting done and force a kill out, then they simply played better than you.
The idea that survivors not getting gens done is an issue the killer has to care about if they don't want to be considered "bad" is a made up thing people keep pushing so their opponents go easier on them.
It's very clear you don't want to improve at the game and just want your opponents to go easier on you.
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@Hawk81584 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427453#Comment_3427453
the thing you are missing, when its 3v1 with 4 or more gens up, its a guarantee win. if you cant win against a 3v1 with 4 gens up, its on you.
If there are 4+ gens up when a survivor dies, the survivor team failed to complete gens. There is little reason why a team of 4 people where only 1 person can be chased at a time is unable to get multiple gens done before the first kill.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427453#Comment_3427453
My problem is with how you phrased it. "easier to manage" thats a wrong statement in my eyes, the correct sentence is "the game is over". cause you've took a shorcut that the game allows. please explain to me why top killer main streamers never do 5 gen tunneling and only late game one if they lose? why they make it harder for themselves? I'm not getting mad at them, I'm giving them incentives cause some users say there aren't to not tunnel, you do you.
Your mistake here is trying to classifying different levels of tunneling. Tunneling at 5 gens and Tunneling at 3 gens are not different. If the survivor team is unable to get gens done before they lose their first teammate, then of course the game is going to be harder for them. Matches that end at 5 gens are always the fault of survivors as there is little reason a team of 4 survivors with 3 survivors free of immediate pressure is unable to get at least 1 gen done.
At the end of the day, you are simply calling killers bad because their opponents messed up.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427449#Comment_3427449
You see, I don't wanna sound cocky cause I'm sure you're pretty experienced in the game too. i have almost 4k hours in the game, when there's an early 3v1(3-5 gens left) the game is over unless the killer is really bad and the survivors are really good.
I played enough game in both rolls across these hours to know how to easily secure a win with a killer, no one said doing gens is skillfull, only looping is skillfull, I was talking about killer tactics on this post.
Killers picking the best tactics does not make them unskilled. Part of being good at the game is knowing how to handle you are in. You can dislike the meta and wish the devs to change it. But getting mad at the players for using the best tools available is just being toxic.