Crowman
Crowman
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Unless BHVR makes snuffing a boon totem more impactful, it's just going to make playing killer less fun than it already is at times.
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BHVR explicitly said that the only win condition is killing survivors. It does not matter if you chase all survivors 12 times or you camp every survivor to death.
Your complaint is that they are not playing the game your way.
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@SavouryRain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592210#Comment_2592210
They nerfed him because he got free zoning by not committing to using his power. The moment I see his gun go up I had to start trying to juke, so he could just tap ADS and get me to lose speed for no cost to him.
Plus, quickscoping removes agency from the survivor; if the Slinger missed a quickscope, it was solely because the Slinger missed.
How dare a killer's skill factor in whether or not they hit you with their power.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592394#Comment_2592394
Because the quickscope was the thing that needed changing; as I've said before, the fact that he feels clunky is the core problem here, not the fact that the quickscope was removed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592418#Comment_2592418
Swinging and missing against healthy survivors injures them but does not inflict Deep Wound, I looked it up specifically just to make sure.
Anyway: Nerfing his ADS like this wasn't the right call, I agree- they should've made it so your gun raises faster but you still can't shoot until it's fully up, since that was the core problem. Maybe the chain needs looking at too, but the core issue is that you could not feasibly dodge the Deathslinger before if he quickscoped you, and even if he just ADS faked he could immediately swing out of cancelling it and that also put you in a lose/lose scenario. Both of those things needed fixing, and both of those things were addressed- the sole problem with that suite of changes is that it also now feels way too slow and clunky to raise your gun all the way.
Side note: There was never any reason to run Deathslinger over Huntress over personal preference, the same way there's no reason to run Huntress over Nurse, or Ghost Face over Nemesis. They don't play similarly beyond the fact that they're both technically ranged- and even then Slinger is significantly less ranged than Huntress. What is it about Huntress that draws people to make weird comparisons? They do it with Trickster too, it's bizarre.
Lastly: Yeah... I kinda agree with the dev's explanation regarding his terror radius, but I really think that they should've given him a lullaby radius instead, or maybe a midpoint terror radius so it's larger but not normal size...? I dunno, the TR increase really seems like it might be hurting him unduly, I'd support that being changed.
I feel like you've never played Deathslinger and are trying to act like you know what was best for him.
First you can't say the quickscope nerf was deserved and say that the clunkiness is the core issue, because it's the same thing. The removal of quickscoping made him feel clunkiness and it was underserved nerf.
Second, they literally slowed down his ADS to prevent him from quickscoping. You can't just speed it up with bringing back quickscoping. Before his Activate ADS was a 0.15 second and a firing delay of 0.5 second. Now it's 0.4 second activate ADS and 0.5 second firing delay.
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I'm perfectly fine with not having to worry about 3 people escaping due to 1 survivor having a key and them 3-genning themselves.
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It does make them incapacitated, it just doesn't have a buffer period when you down the survivor like Victor does.
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It always has been.
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Billy and Deathslinger are in a similar boat. Both received unnecessary changes that made them much less fun to play even if their overall power isn't much lower.
Freddy is now a shell of his former self. His rework made him a good killer, but he's been slowly nerfed both with direct power and addon nerfs and indirect nerfs to the perks he had good synergy with. He doesn't really have anything going for him anymore.
These are the top 3 killers who really deserve better.
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@JacksonWise said:
I don't necessarily mind the ADS nerf because survivors couldn't really counter quick-scoping, but they didn't give him enough in return to compensate. Also, the terror radius increase really bugs me because now he is the only ranged killer with 110% m/s and a 32 meter terror radius, which is REALLY bad because survivors have more time to just shift + w and he doesn't have the range to make up for it unlike Huntress.
There wasn't an issue with quickscoping. Being hit by the chain itself did no damage. It was possible for survivors to avoid going down to a Deathslinger by using the environment to help break the chain. The idea that quick scoping was uncounterable is dumb.
It would be like saying Trapper's traps are uncounterable, because walking into the trap gave the survivor no chance to avoid being hit the trap.
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That's just the game now. BHVR said that the game is a series of 1v1s so it doesn't matter if you are great at chases or get a 12 hook 4k when all that matters is how many survivors you killed.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587536#Comment_2587536
I can tell you right now if they nerf boon perks to where they can only be used once, no one's gonna use them.
Well I'm not suggesting they become 1 use. They become one use per a totem, meaning 5 uses for the entire team.
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The fact that boon totems have no way to be removed from play without killing the survivor running the boon perk is an issue.
1 survivor runs a perk that gives the entire team buffs in a sizeable area around a totem is strong. A killer snuffing a totem should be meaningful and the best solution imo is to make it so a snuff'd totem can't be reblessed. This way a team of survivors have 5 areas they can buff and have to be smarter about where and when they bless totems.
Right now there's really no downside to dropping boons in the main building or other strong tiles a survivor would want to run the killer by, because if the killer drops chase to snuff the totem, the chased survivor gets a head start to the next tile and a survivor later can come back a rebless that totem.
Survivors complained that undying could cause them cleanse all 5 totems as being unfair and boons are basically the same issue but reversed for killer.
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Mikaela has the boon perks by default and the only way to remove a boon perk from play is to kill the person who placed the boon.
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@MrSlippery said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2586233#Comment_2586233
The issue with that, is it takes 2 seconds to snuff a totem, compared to 16 seconds to cleanse. Hexes effect the entire map, Boons do not. Even decreasing the audio, it wouldn't be like they would be hard to find. The limited range, would let the killer know the totem is in that area. Anybody that uses whispers, understands how easy it is to find things in a small area. Like I've told multiple people, my solution does limit the usage of the totems, while also benefiting the killer.
The killer may take 2 seconds to snuff the boon, but in the process they dropped pressure to walk up to the boon, snuff it, and then now need to spend more time finding a survivor to start chasing again. If a killer is dropping chase to snuff a boon, that can be a huge loss to them since now the chased survivor has time to make distance and even heal up and the rest of the survivors are still making process on gens.
Individual Survivor time is worth much less than the killers.
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I don't see why there's an issue with killers snuffing out a boon totem means that totem can't be reblessed. Survivors would still have the option to bless another dull totem. Boon perks are still totem based and should be high risk/high reward perks. Right now the risk basically doesn't exist.
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The Game is like Pinhead's worst map, because of how easy it is for survivors to break the chain on that map.
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@realflashboss said:
Let killers relight totems. Lets see the complaints then that you have to spend time finding and then relighting a totem. Boon totems already waste a ton of time - especially if the survivor is determined to rebless them... they honestly can work more in the killers favour as a slow down compared to the other perks theyre taking up the slot for lile BT, adrenaline, unbreakable, DS, DH etc.
The way i see it, boons are good and strong BUT they have more drawbacks than the old meta. Theres a trade off now at least for the survivors wasting time to get use out of these strong perks whereas all the old ones 'just work' without having to do much.
Honestly just let killers be able to relight hexes if they want, as long as it takes time to relight im ok with that! I bet youll soon realise its not all its cracked up to be!
Boon totems don't really waste that much time. At least not compared to the time wasted if a killer drops their pressure to seek out a boon totem, snuff it out, and then needs to search for a survivor again. You have to remember, every time a killer spends doing something that isn't pressuring survivors, each survivor gains that amount of time for free.
This is why snuffing needs to be more impactful than it is, because right now there is honestly no good reason to snuff out boons since you'll waste more time doing something that in the grand scheme of things doesn't make a difference.
I think outside of the snuffing boons issues, boon totems are actually in a good spot. It's just the intended killer counterplay to them is lacking.
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@DoomedMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2577344#Comment_2577344
It's the same sh*t for every non-mobility killer, even 115%. 0.6m/s is also super slow to catch up with a W-gamer.
Huntress has the same problem than him, but the lullaby is even bigger than his TR, and she has to wait the full charge to hit a fast hatchet. But in proper hands she's strong, now it is the same for the DeathSlinger.
I see you have a certain amount of comments/posts here so you're certainly not a beginner but sometimes we forget the basics : come from somewhere the survivor won't be able to flee you in a way you can't cut his trajectory. With 110% you have to outposition sooner more than the other killers the survivors.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2577904#Comment_2577904
The quick scope thing was why he was so unfair and so unfun to play against. There is no practice in earth that makes you realistically able to react to a 0.3s move.
Plus the fact that as a survivor you had to move in a stupid trajectory so you hope to avoid a sudden quick scope, but by doing so, the DeathSlinger outposition quickly and for free, just because he CAN quick scope.
Quick scoping doesn't require to aim well. That's my opinion. It's just the easy way to have shots.
Now he's hard, but fair. People who actually know how to outposition, how to move, and how to aim will perform with him.
Saying he's garbage because you don't use him well is the same as saying Nurse is trash because you have to put 15 hours in her to more or less master her. People have to play him in another way than before.
You are absolutely wrong about quickscoping.
Quickscoping requires aim and saying otherwise is laughable. To be good at quickscoping you have to keep a mental note of where you gun will fire and factor any leading you may have to do, because once you commit to the quickscope you can't readjust.
There's also nothing unfair about it. Being hit by the spear does not do damage and you can't go down if the Slinger can't follow up with an M1.
Not to mention he has 1 shoot meaning any miss is very punishing. While zoning by spamming ADS needed adjustments so Deathslingers need to commit to their shot, a survivor still has the ability to bait slinger into taking bad shots.
Not every killer power needs to be reactable. Otherwise we would nerf Trapper and his traps since you can't react to traps that he places that are hidden.
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I hope the devs will make snuffing out boons more impactful at stopping those perks instead of nerfing boons into worse versions of existing perks.
I think the fact that the killer either gives up all pressure to temporarily remove the boon from play or the killer ignores the boon allowing survivors to have uncontested aoe buffs is just a lose-lose situation.
I played a game against a Nemesis who kept dropping chase to snuff my shadow step and he basically threw the game doing so. But at the same time it was a totem under the dock so you can't really just ignore it either.
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I don't like the idea that you can't be critical of the devs and enjoy or play the game. At least that's the tone I'm getting from the topic.
I put a lot of hours into the game and the game has never been this bad for performance and bugs. Really ever since covid started last year and they started working remote quality went downhill and people are rightfully fed up having these issues that seem to be getting worse each chapter.
Not mention game balance is very questionable and the devs are very slow at making changes to improve balance.
And that's ignoring the increasing hacker issue because whike hackers have always existed, they were never this common.
I can like dbd for what it is and still have an issue with the decisions the devs make.
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Larger maps you can get away with cleansing since you pick pools far away that the plague likely won't go out of her way to get. Then the last pools remaining can be popped to force her to get her power while everyone is healthy.
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Killers need some way to remove the boon for longer period of time. Right now they are too unbalanced by the fact that a killer can't afford to waste time snuffing out something that will just get relit and the benefits from an active boon totem are hard to ignore.
There's 5 totems and survivors can even bless hexes, so I see no reason why snuffing out a boon can't prevent that totem from being rebless'd. It'll make strong spots such as main building totems risky, but ones on the edge of the maps safer while they are generally less impactful due to being on the edge.
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I always thought STBFL on Deathslinger was overrated. It was still a good perk, but you can only injure a survivor to avoid losing the stack and it means taking a 4 second stun + reload. There's a few situations where having high STBFL stacks allow plays you otherwise couldn't do, but I wouldn't say that they were common enough that it was a necessary perk.
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@galanonim25 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2582021#Comment_2582021
Used it on zombie. It didnt stun nor kill it. I have got hit by it instead.
Either a bug or a zombie was out of range. But Head On or a Pallet Stun should kill a zombie.
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@Munqaxus said:
How do you counterplay Self-Care and Botany Knowledge which pretty much gives you the exact same healing speed, just off by a couple of seconds. How do you counterplay "We'll Make It" which is an 8 second heal?
Self Care and Botany is 2 perks a single survivor has to run that only works for them.
We'll Make It has a condition and a time limit that only boosts the heal speed of the survivor running the perk.
Boon totems is a single perk that 1 person of a team of 4 survivor has to run to give the benefit to the entire team after spending some time blessing a totem.
If the devs want to have boon totems be such strong team benefit perks that the killer can remove from the game, then the killer snuffing out the boon should actually make a difference. Right now it really doesn't. Any time the survivor wastes setting up the boon perk will waste more of a killer's time if they go out of their way to snuff it and then you can just set it up again.
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Honestly since sabo isn't permanent and it's much easier to play around sabo plays as killer. I wouldn't be opposed to allowing survivors to sabo event hooks.
I also don't like that killers can see event gen aura as a different color. Played a few games of killer and it was just extra noise that I didn't need.
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If you knew how to play against him as it is, nothing really changed outside of some hits he can't make anymore.
If you didn't know how to play against him, I doubt anything really changed.
Slightly weaker against good survivors which is a shame.
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Well generally we get all the new content during the chapter release and the mid-chapter is changes.
But I think the devs wanted to keep the survivor and killer separate since one was license and the other was not and split them up. I don't think this meant they are rushing content, but this is more the continued trend of BHVR not caring about quality when putting out new content.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2578880#Comment_2578880
It's not a matter of viability. It's a matter of being completely unfair with 0 counter.
Tbf, There's more ways to counter a Frenzying Legion compared to his initial release. Legion no longer sees blood marks so it's possible to hide against him and any miss equals a 4 second CD meaning locker jukes or 360s can buy you some time.
It's not much and overall won't really matter.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2579703#Comment_2579703
Yeah, there are quite a few reasons for one hit downs, most of them involving exposed status
Devour hope, haunted ground, noed, make your choice, starstruck, dragon's grip, rancor
Huntress has Iridescent head
Myers has tier 3 evil within
You failed to mention Iron Maiden which is a perk Huntress is more likely to run due to its interaction with her power.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
I agree that killers should be able to destroy rather than only temporarily snuff out noon totems. But it should take longer than 2 seconds to destroy. It’s ridiculous that survivors can infinitely relight totems and killer can’t do anything except wasting time returning to snuff it out. Survivors can permanently take out hex totems 30 seconds into a match, and it’s not like a killer can relight another hex. Either allow killers to relight their hexes, or allow to permanently destroy boom totems seems like a fair balance
It doesn't need to take longer than 2 seconds to snuff out a totem. Killers are already a time disadvantage and going out to locate boons to snuff out is a huge waste of time unless you happen to chase and down a survivor right near one.
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All the devs need to do is make it so if a killer snuffs out a boon, that totem can't be blessed again. This would give an actual reason for killers to seek out boons and create interaction between the survivor and killer. Right now there's no real interaction. Sure a killer can snuff out a totem, but the survivor can just bless it again in the same spot.
There's no real risk to the survivor, because they don't have to worry about losing their perk and the killer will end up wasting more time trying to search the boon and snuffing it out.
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There's something funny about a topic where a person complains killers are rage quitting while also saying they are glad they can rage quit.
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@RenRen said:
I hate how the nerfs and buffs did absolutely nothing to actually fix the issues with deathslinger similarly to pyramid head. All they did is make it so the killer feels bad to play,
At least PH got a useful buff with the shorter cooldown on using his ranged attack.
Deathslinger didn't really get anything useful.
But it does suck that bhvr's solution is to make killers unfun to play instead of balancing the fun mechanics. Deathslinger already had chain breaking mechanic so it wasn't like they had nothing to work with.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2578255#Comment_2578255
What unsnuffable ones? It takes killers like 1 second to get rid of them and it takes the survivors 16 seconds + the normal recovery time to get back up from downed. That's only if the killer is tunnel visioning so hard they ignore the boons.
It may take a second to snuff out the totem but locating the totem is the main time sink. So a killer could spend 5-6 seconds to find the nearby boon meaning the rest of the survivors had a free 15-18 seconds. And honestly that's a low ball number if you down the survivor close to the totem since they do have 24m range.
16 seconds isn't really much in the long run considering survivors can rebless a totem you already snuffed out and survivors will often get back more time for you snuffing them out. And if you want to go hunting for boons pre-emptively well you are giving 4 survivors a lot of free time.
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You don't actually own what you buy with an NFT. You are basically buying a receipt that says you own this but at any point the item you "own" can no longer be accessible because the actual owner shut down their server.
It's basically like buying a star and getting the certificate saying you own the star.
Wasting a ton of electricity on this is not needed and there's no hypocrisy for people being against NFTs.
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The broken status effect has a duration bar on it if you didn't know.
But this would be a nice QoL change. If it doesn't already, this should be done for For The People as well.
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The "Do Bones" argument doesn't work here.
NOED can be removed from the game permanently by cleansing all dull totems before the end of the game.
Boon Totems cannot be removed from the game permanently. They get disabled until a survivor blesses a totem again. And since survivors can infinitely bless totems there's very little advantage to a killer snuffing out boons. Assuming all 4 survivors are still up, a killer spending at least 4 seconds to find and snuff out a boon totem is spending more time than it took for a survivor to bless it (if it was a dull). Now if BHVR made it so snuffing out a boon on a totem made it so that totem couldn't be blessed again, then there would be merit to "do bones" since snuffing a totem would actually matter.
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I personally wouldn't have a problem with boon totems if there was a more permanent solution to removing them. As it stands, there's no reason for a killer to seek a boon totem to snuff it out, because survivors can just bless the totem again.
And before someone says "but it means a survivor is wasting 16 seconds to bless a totem", the killer is losing more time snuffing it out. By going out to snuff out a totem you are as a killer not chasing a survivor or patrolling gens, meaning however long it takes you to find and snuff out a totem you gave the survivors that amount of time times the number of alive survivors. So if a single survivor blessing a totem takes 16 seconds, then as long as it takes more than 4 seconds for a killer to find the totem and snuff it out then it was beneficial for the survivors.
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@Rydog said:
He was completely miserable to play against. He could shoot you 100% outside of TR, and counterplay against him was "weave randomly back and forth and hope for the best." Yeah man, this needed to be nerfed because going against him is one of the most frustrating things in the entire game.
It's 2 meters where he could shoot you out of his terror radius with M&A (since no one was running the TR reduction addons while ADS). And he needs LoS so you can still see him approaching you. It's really not a big deal.
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Well they literally nerfed every strong aspect his kit had and left him with nothing in return.
Really hard for a killer to feel good when they are flat out worse in all aspects.
I'm sure the devs in a year will nerf plague because they can't make up their own mind about what they want their own killers to play style to be.
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@Gwinty said:
I think we will see him still. His power can be quit good and his combination with Starstruck just became stronger with his bigger terror radius. Down one survivor, reload, pick up and hook. Now you can hunt whoever was inside your radius for ~30 seconds with an insta down. The bigger radius makes it much easier to apply starstruck to a survivor.
Also Deathslinger got some buffs to his add-ons and many player will try them. If you already own Deathslinger you will not dump him just because those things where changed.
However I think that he will be a rarer sight just because the tag reads "nerf".
The bigger TR isn't going to help Starstruck builds. While yes he'll have a larger range to expose survivors, he also has a harder time catching up to them since he's 110 and has a larger warning. It's the same issue Doctor has with Starstruck. A big TR means nothing if you can't actually reach the survivor in time.
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Good chance BHVR didn't update the text on the addon, because that has happened several times where a perk/addon gets changed and the description is incorrect.
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It's funny watching clear survivor mains who have clearly never play Deathslinger try to argue that Deathslinger isn't actually nerfed, but he was buffed.
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I think it's okay that survivors can cleanse hexes since it takes longer. Running a full hex setup to deny perks wouldn't be fair.
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@Eye66 said:
They badly trashed Deathslinger for honestly no reason in this patch, it's inexplicable
There was a reason (survivors complained), just not a good one.
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Because the game rewards killers who kill survivors irrelevant of how well they won chases or how many hooks they got.
Camping bubba is the easiest way to get a 2k.
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@Iliketoplaykiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2572111#Comment_2572111
I can't wait to start patrolling gens and totems, its going to be so fun. Behavior really did an amazing job for killers this patch....
I would say unless you down a survivor next to a boon totem there's very little reason for you to be patrolling for them. If snuffing out a boon meant that totem couldn't be relit it would matter but it doesn't.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Why don't they listen to feedback. It's like the community is talking to a wall
Because the devs already decided they know what's best for Deathslinger, a killer who wasn't over performing and was largely played by a small dedicated fan base.
It just shows if you complain about something enough, the devs will nerf it without actually taking a moment to consider how the killer is played.