ChuckingWong
ChuckingWong
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I thought he was never meant to harm us
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Just to really drive home how broken this range is. Devs this is serious if you want to attempt fixing nurse:
If I was looking dead on at the harvester on my blinks in the above gif
I would beable to hit a person with the lunge addon on the back corner of this bale here.
I didnt even need the lunge to hit this person and I blinked sideways. And I was on top of her -
lol
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I think flower face nurse is just hilarious to look at lol
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923187#Comment_3923187
Ok, what do you consider an m2 killer then Hm? I guess that makes Plague an m1 killer too huh?
The distinction between an M1 and M2 killer is informal but widely used in the community to describe how a killer typically applies pressure and gets downs
Pig does not typically get m2 downs. Or m2 hits at all.
One last time. Pig is not a m2 killer
Plague is somewhat hybrid, mostly m1. Situational m2 killer. You would descirbe her as m1,, or m2 argumentatively.
Community would call plague m1 though. Red puke is situational/variable. -
@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922822#Comment_3922822
Do you know what killers you just listed? 2 of those characters don't need to m1 to injure survivors, they have special attacks. That means they are in fact NOT m1 killers. Wraith is an m1 killer
pig is not an m2 killer you would be absolutely crazy to suggest it is.
You can make the argument for twins for sure.
So again, twins pig wraith.
Saw a ghostface as well later in the night.
One more time, pig is not an m2 killer. -
@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922765#Comment_3922765
2 of those are m2 killers, but ig they're different than the typical S tiers
False but okay
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no just got a pig and a twins
and wraith
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You dont like flower face nurse ?
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Feel like I opened a wild berry skittles bag with the color changes lol.
We used to just have regular skittles. -
Rage bait account creation is at an all time high
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I hate giving hatch on this map, takes forever to find the friggen thing
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921902#Comment_3921902
Rebalance the game so that a 4v1 isn't quite so against the Killer (thereby softly dissuading tunneling and removing "necessity" as a reason) and making the 3v1 significantly less Killer-sided (thereby making Survivors feel like they actually have a chance to win the game).
I believe that, coupled with BP changes, could significantly help.
lol
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@Nicholas said:
What do you mean by the vote feature?
One of the reasons I want to Go-Next is when The Killer is super laggy. Especially projectile killers, it isn't fun or fair and oftentimes wastes time. Nothing fun about getting hit behind cover, through walls, etc. You also raised some other points, and there are many other reasons for DC's. This is what the dev should be discussing with the community. We need a cure for the problem, not a Band-Aid for the symptom, and all of these mechanics are Band-Aids.
"not using the vote feature"
-The thing the forum has implemented "vote down and up" I dont engage with it.
Agreed in my response, you have to address the issues leading to the problem, not the symptom of going next. -
@Nicholas said:
This entire thread is what's wrong. The symptom is disconnecting, but what is the root cause? That's where the discussion should be. No game mechanic in the world can force people to play when they don't want to play. The real issue is the devs aren't trying to figure out WHY this happens! And it doesn't help when the community is determined to find ways to compel people to stay when they clearly don't want to. Make a survey on Survivor disconnects and find out why people do it. That's where you really begin to address the issue, not implementing ways to keep people in a trial they don't want to be in.
This entire thread is what's wrong. The symptom is disconnecting, but what is the root cause? That's where the discussion should be.
Not using the vote feature but 100% this.
If we remove systems people will just do something else to "go next".
Figure out why people are going next rather than dismissing them being "babies" "bad" "no reason", is what I am seeing.
There is already footage of why too:
•why would anyone want to stick around in a match when you have an afker on your team?
•why would anyone want to stick around if the killer tunneled and camped one out at 5 generators?
•why would anyone want to stick around for blatantly broken mechanical killers?
•why would anyone want to stick around when they load into teammates using a key and hiding to get hatch?
These are just a few questions that people just dismiss or purposefully ignore because instead of address any valid viewpoints, its easier to just call people names. -
Most the list sure yea agree.
Pallet rng plays a role in this maps as well.
•Torment creek
Facing towards the open main. From the left side, all the way to the right side before a jungle gym (roughly a 3rd of the map), you can get 0 pallets to spawn. Except the 1 pallet hugging main with the lumber.
•Nostromo
I wouldnt call this anything but killer sided. Theres really nothing safe for survivors in this map
Its miserable to play on both sides though. Theres all this crap in the way for killer.
•Sanctum of Wrath
Another one where you can get a 3rd of the map and only the side pallet of main (which is even worse on this map its a dead pallet) to spawn. I have had so many of these where its just deadzoned with no pallets.
•Lery's
Would give it slightly survivor.
Would be killer sided only for stealth killers.
•Toba
Same as nostromo, its got the exact same problems only a slightly stronger main. Outside of main its just dead zone after deadzone after unsafe pallet.
Miserable on both sides but would give it to the killer. -
Dont think they should be necessary
Map offerings or … map decision making should be reserved for custom games. -
Go push them out with your attacks
It only lasts minutes and is frustrating because you are letting it happen. Dont let the heat get to you, the end of the match doesnt define the entirety of what happened.
Can even go break walls/pallets if thats too much -
@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921169#Comment_3921169
time out wait a minute why can't survivors just swap perks to unbreakable and unbreakable boon to adjust to this new meta instead of begging bhvr to let survivors leave w/o penalty
your making it sound like survivors are braindead NPCs that can't change their perk loadout
I mean yea with that logic we should just revert basekit BT and everyone should just run BT if they dont want to be immediately downed after unhook.
Things have to change -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921294#Comment_3921294
I think this is where we are getting thrown off. You say abandon was designed to avoid down time so making it a loss would return it to its original intented purpose. I disagree with that. The design of the abandon was to prevent 4min slug, an escape from being tormented for 4min by toxic killers. I don't believe the intent of the abandon was ever supposed to be so survivors could abandon instantly avoiding the hook or Mori animation. This is why I believe survivors are abusing it, they are taking this escape from toxic killer gameplay which is justified and applying it to regular gameplay which isn't necessary.
In all the years this game has been around I have never once heard anyone complain about the amount of time it takes to get picked up and sacrificed. Never heard any complaints about the last 15sec of the match. At most people have complained about the amount of time they have been slugged on the floor while killer waits for everyone on hooks to be sacrificed so they can then mori because that does take more time. Now this abandon has accidentally given survivors a way to skip those 15sec at the end it's become a big thing that they should have it.
Where we still differ is on what the feature should be used for, regardless of how it might currently be exploited. If survivors are using abandon to skip moris or the final hook, I completely agree that’s not its intended purpose (draw), and it should be reworked to prevent that (loss). But that’s not the same as saying the feature itself is broken. It’s being misused, and misuse should be addressed by tightening the system, not by expanding it.
Abandon was created for downtime, slugged out matches, stalemates, endless crawling. Those are clear, functional issues.
If survivors and killers both start asking for skip buttons because they’re bored or annoyed with short moments of the match, then we’re on a path toward skipping more and more of the game just because parts are inconvenient. And that’s where I draw the line, not because one side “deserves” it more, but because neither case actually demands a mechanical solution. If we want to stop abuse, close loopholes, or tighten design, I’m all for it. But parity for the sake of parity? That’s not the same thing.
Theres no way for a survivor to tell if the person who is slugging will finish the match. History shows us they dont want to (why the mechanic now exists) and again its a team wide mechanic "waiting 15 seconds" is not something we really witness at all outside of the one person. The other people have been waiting hooked/on the ground for a minute or more.
And if its 3 people dead and 1 person slugged on the ground infront of you the comparison for the exit gate is even weaker, as its 100% without a doubt over. The exit gate is not. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921284#Comment_3921284
But what I don't understand is you acknowledge the fact that abandon was designed to prevent 4mim bleed out and acknowledge that if survivors are abusing this system by dodging moris because they are impatient then a rework is in order, but instead of reworking it so the abandon feature does only what it's designed to do (prevent 4min bleed outs), you suggest a rework thats designed to dodge moris intentionally by making it a loss. If making it so the abuse of abandon is no longer abusing it thats fine, but I think the same should be offered to killers imo.
I would like to keep it constructive but I don't see how it's constructive to give arguments that have no validity. Sorry but anything in the last 15 sec of the match that has no impact on the opposing side shouldn't be dismissed on the basis you provide. I offer QoL suggestions that would apply to both sides that wouldn't impact the other side in any way but you dismiss the very concept of it for killer for no good reason at all. I would love to understand your logic but I honestly can't see it. The only way it makes sense is if you yourself t bag at the gates. I could at least understand your motives for wanting to keep that. But if you don't then I'm truly at a loss as to why you would be so opposed to something that wouldn't effect you
I think there’s still a misunderstanding about the distinction I’m trying to make.
Yes, if survivors are abusing abandon to skip moris, a mechanic designed to avoid downtime, then that’s a misuse of the system, and that specific use should be reworked (e.g. by making it a loss). That would return abandon to its original or intended purpose.
But giving killers the ability to abandon at the exit gate isn’t the same kind of misuse. It’s not about ending a solved or stuck game state, it’s about skipping the final seconds because it’s emotionally unsatisfying. That’s not QoL, that’s preference. And when we start designing for preferences instead of problems, we risk turning the game into a pile of escape hatches for when someone doesn’t feel like finishing the match. That’s the slippery slope.
You say it’s harmless, I’d say it’s precedent-setting. If the reasoning is "well they get to skip something annoying, so we should too," that’s emotional symmetry, not design necessity.
Your last point: no, I don’t t-bag, Im neither good enough for it, nor really care for that interaction. I bag greet my teammates at the start of the match and its hilarious but thats where that starts and stops. Conversely on killer, I dont care if I get bagged at any point. And have got kills at the exit gates from overly cocky survivors. Its probably the most satisfying thing to do in the game.
I’d actually be fine with survivors who abandon moris getting a loss. That’s still consistent with my argument, don’t use abandon to dodge designed mechanics. But that doesn’t justify giving every side a 'skip' button when the situation doesn’t involve downtime or a broken game state. That’s where we differ.And I’m trying to stay constructive too, even when we disagree. I’m not dismissing your intent, just challenging the design logic behind the suggestion.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921274#Comment_3921274
So you agree there is no negative impact for the survivors at the gate, no harm in it. As survivor if I'm at the gate and the killer abandons, I'm fine with it. Why? Because I don't taunt the killer and if they abandon it makes no difference to me.
As already discussed the abandon was designed to prevent 4min bleed outs, it was not intended to skip the last Mori or hook time. That is a feature that was unintended as a mechanic which currently survivors are using to spare them the few seconds of Mori which they find annoying. Making it a loss says you want this unintended mechanic to remain but as an intended mechanic instead but not offer the same for the killer. it's very strange to want this for survivor which doesn't effect the killer at all and not want it for killer which doesn't effect survivors at all. Certainly isn't showing fairness, balance or equality.
I think we might have to agree to disagree too because there is nothing that would convince me that allowing 1 thing for 1 side is ok but not the other side, especially when it makes no difference to the opposite side. If your only argument for denying killers the same as survivors is "you only want it because they have it" then I don't think you have any real argument.
It’s not about harm, it’s about design consistency and purpose.
Survivor abandon exists to prevent downtime from a solved game state, like everyone slugged or hooked. That’s measurable and practical. Wanting to abandon at the gate as killer because “it’s over anyway” isn’t the same, it’s not downtime, it’s impatience or frustration. That’s the key difference.
Just because something doesn’t “hurt” the other side doesn’t mean it should be added. That’s how we get bloated or reactionary mechanics. Design should solve real gameplay problems, not feelings of “fairness” based on surface symmetry. 1 for 1 changes dont need to happen its okay if one side gets something and the other does not.
If survivors were abusing abandon to dodge moris, then sure, rework that (like I said: make it a loss). But creating a matching abandon for killers just to balance emotions doesn’t solve anything, it just opens more loopholes.
“Both sides get a button” isn’t good balance, solving the actual gameplay problem is.
The little quip you have at the end saying I have no real argument was unnecessarily dismissive, lets keep this constructive please. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921267#Comment_3921267
Again, what negative impact would it have on the survivors at the gate? Would it ruin the match in some way? Would it cause them to lose?
It’s not about “ruining” anything for survivors at the gate, it’s about not building systems around ego.
Abandon is meant to prevent downtime, not spare people from moments they find annoying or embarrassing. If survivors start abusing it for that, it’s fair to rework (make it a loss), not create a mirrored system just to make things “even” emotionally.
We shouldn’t design mechanics because someone felt taunted. The game needs fewer loopholes and excuses to disengage, not more.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921253#Comment_3921253
My point is that it is a broken system and people seem to want to keep the system as it is and not offer the same to killer. For the sake of compromise I personally am ok with survivors abandoning during a Mori if it counts as a loss 🤷♂️ makes no difference to me, I get the kill, the survivor gets the loss. But likewise I can understand why killers might want the same thing, the option to abandon, lose and save time. It makes no difference to the survivors that are at the gate t bagging. Fact is if all survivors are at the gate, inches away from exiting then saying "just hit them out" is like me saying to a survivor "just watch the mori" and no the killer can't get a kill without specific perks or powers because the second the killer hits them they are out the gate.
You haven't actually said what difference it makes to the survivors that are at the gate, what negative impact would it have for the survivor that is sitting at the gate? is it that they should be allowed to t bag? Because the only thing you have said to justify not allowing killers to abandon is that they can somehow get a kill and that the match isn't over even though it is over without the use of perks or a specific power.
Yea I mean if they are inches away just hit them out. Theres no implementation of any system that needs to happen for that fact to not be true.
So far the only arguments made, is peoples feelings being hurt at the end of the match.
Which okay lets continue with taunting.You haven't actually said what difference it makes to the survivors that are at the gate, what negative impact would it have for the survivor that is sitting at the gate? is it that they should be allowed to t bag? Because the only thing you have said to justify not allowing killers to abandon is that they can somehow get a kill and that the match isn't over even though it is over without the use of perks or a specific power.
Allowed to t bag happens at any point in the match. Why is it such a bother at the end?
Same with pointing
Or beckoning.
You dont need specific perks or a power thats just one example of it working. You could do it from many stances, some that are a combination of survivor cockyness and killer outplay.
It seems that many in here just want systems as a tit for tat sort of reason. Which I disagree with entirely. You dont have to make changes to one side, just because the other side got a change. -
W moderation.
@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921216#Comment_3921216
It's fascinating, seeing you defend survivor exclusivity for built-in toxicity avoiding mechanics.
In the beginning @Prometheus1092 didn't ask for having survivor to witness the Mori but for killer having the same option to avoid potential toxicity.
They didn't ask for a detriment to the survivor experience but for an equal QOL change for killer. But good job bit by bit twisting their narrative.
So for the killer side, the game would have to distinguish… if they arent weskers power…. the killer doesnt down someone before they are able to pick up in the exit gate… they dont have blood warden…. they dont have slingers power…. they dont have Knights Guard hunt add-on… they dont have draculas add-on….
Also A) this isn't that hard to implement, just a series of true/false checks and B) the abandoning mechanic would be for people that DON'T WANT to try to get the pity kill. Again, not the original intention of neither this thread nor Prometheus.
In the beginning
didn't ask for having survivor to witness the Mori but for killer having the same option to avoid potential toxicity.
@Prometheus1092 original stance was that it was broken, and being misused; as its considered a tie and not a loss with the feature, they even said they would fully be behind everything if the change was made for it to be a loss.
Which I agreed it should be counted as a loss.
The abandon mechanic though, was not implemented to battle toxicity/bming. It was to get people from the match that is over to their next match.
Survivors at the exit gates is not a match that is over.It's fascinating, seeing you defend survivor exclusivity for built-in toxicity avoiding mechanics.
Lets make sure we dont gaslight/misrepresent what other people say here. I never defended bming or toxicity in this game.
Also A) this isn't that hard to implement, just a series of true/false checks and B) the abandoning mechanic would be for people that DON'T WANT to try to get the pity kill. Again, not the original intention of neither this thread nor Prometheus.
Actually it is. Just because any of these things are false, which would be far more than what I listed, doesnt mean you cant get a kill at the exit gate.
So it would be silly to attempt to create a bunch of "true/false checks" when that would number in the hundreds. Its not just perks/killer power/addons its also decisions/positioning/reactions; you cant create "true/false checks" for any of that.
If you dont want to try to get a kill, even when there is a chance, thats killer choice. Thats called agency, but you dont need an abandon feature for refusing to go hit someone out of the exit gates.
You can just go hit someone out of the exit gate. If you dont want to hit someone out of the exit gate, wait there. The only person stopping the game from ending is you at that point.
Which is nothing like the abandon feature for incapacitated survivors. They dont have a choice on what happens. Its up to the killer.@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921216#Comment_3921216
It does show that you want the ability to skip 15sec of mori as survivor, want ability to t bag at the gate, ability to abandon willy nilly even though you can get recover, ability to abandon when downed regardless of the situation it seems but don't want anything for the killer. But the fact you can see how ridiculous the suggestion is on the killer side at least means it's a step closer to one day realising how ridiculous it is that survivors currently have this. As @Neaxolotl points out, not sure what the motivation for not wanting the same thing for killers as survivors have (the ability to skip 15 seconds worth pointless mori sequence and 15 seconds worth of t bagging.) the only ones it would effect are the people that t bag at the gate instead of just escaping.
I feel like we are just going in circles at this point, and its best just to agree to disagree I have already stated why I wouldnt want this feature for killers and open exit gates. Especially when its just reactionary to your original problem of the mechanic being a tie and not a loss.
Just ask for the current survivor abandon to be considered a loss and I am with you 100%. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921209#Comment_3921209
And same rules apply to killers as it does with survivors. Survivors shouldn't be able to abandon when they have the ability revive themselves (Partly why bhvr specifically said plot twist wouldn't activate abandon). This rule would apply to killers, can't abandon if they have certain perks that stops survivors leaving for example and would only be able to abandon when ALL are at the gates. There's no double standards here lol if it applies to one it applies to the other.
That would just incentivize bming then, and its again very single person centric. Why are 1-3 other people (who dont have revive perks) supposed to sit there through slug, and recover, because the person that went down has unbreakable?
How would the game distinguish boon expo? Would noone be allowed to abandon at all? Even if they are across the map from it?
You are mistaken from plot twist. The idea was that they didnt want people doing it just to get out of the match. Thats circumventing the games mechanics. People would beable to load into matches and slug themselves if they didnt like the killer/map if this wasnt implemented.
So for the killer side, the game would have to distinguish… if they arent weskers power…. the killer doesnt down someone before they are able to pick up in the exit gate… they dont have blood warden…. they dont have slingers power…. they dont have Knights Guard hunt add-on… they dont have draculas add-on….
Like how many rules are we coming up for this situation to justify its abandon feature here????
This is a silly idea no, push them out.
Its not a double standard as its just a ridiculous suggestion. They are not equivalent. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921202#Comment_3921202
Except it is over when all are at the gates. The killer can only get a kill in this situation if the survivors fumble big time or maybe if killer has noed even then its such a small chance of getting a kill it's practically non existent. just like if the killer was to go for a hook and fumble it meaning the survivor is still able to run. What difference does it make to survivors at the gate if the killer can abandon? They still get their escape and win. People say it's to get extra BP but that's a poor excuse to be honest, we all know it's to taunt the killer. If it's for extra BP then they worse the bleed out timer to get heal points but they dont. They won, makes no difference if killer abandons at that point. The argument of making a survivor sit through a mori animation is the same for survivors making the killer go through the t bagging animation.
Its not though and you just said it in the first sentence. Its highly variable if its over or not at the exit gates.
Perks, powers, addons all these can come into play at the exit gates. There are plenty of wonderful "just leave" videos I can point you to that show you just how much taunting gets punished.
3 survivors dead and one person on the ground in front of you though? Find me footage of a killer loss when this happens. You cant.
From what I can tell, this is another case reasoning of, "well if they do it to me I should beable to do it to them"
A mori is a game mechanic, one that you cant do anything about once it starts.
T-bagging at the exit gates, you have plenty you can do.
A finisher mori isnt BMing or a taunt either, unless you think it is ? I dont think it is, I just think its a waste of time personally. And the mechanic just incentivizes slugging issues. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921198#Comment_3921198
Yes 3 dead 1 remain. Really don't think it's much to be able to hook or Mori the last survivor.
Yea I dont see why you shouldnt beable to just abandon (lose from a change you want)
Like … the game is over 100%, outside of the killers … computer/game system crashing I guess?
Other than roleplaying its an animation that I personally dont wanna stick around for. I already said I hated the idea it was implemented to begin with.
Preemptively, for survivors at the exit gate you definetely have several chances to get a kill though so its not over. Or they might not even be at the exit gate, or you might have end game perks.
The person on the ground with 3 others dead… you have them dead to rights… I dont see where this is going. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921193#Comment_3921193
Can't force people to watch it, anyone can DC whenever they want. But that is their choice. I don't see why anyone would want to skip that 15sec so badly. If they can't bare it then let them DC like normal. At best make it a clear loss when they do so as if they got mori. Surly you can see how silly it is that people would argue they want to skip that 15sec penalty free, have it considered a draw, keep the items, but not understand if a killer wants to skip 15sec at the gate. Same rules apply to both sides. Both sides is just very silly to want shave off 15sec penalty free. If you want 1 then the other should have it too imo. Or neither side gets that option.
I would like to add, that doesn't mean no abandon option at all for survivors that are slugged. Just means no instant abandon to skip 15seconds that's all.
So…. it was 3 people dead and a person downed?
I just want to make sure what you are talking about here.
Because if it is then its like… whats the goal here why do you care what survivors do if … they are all dead?
Why is it so important that someone watches you mori them?
You are getting what you want (win abandon change)
Its one person down and 3 others dead. There is no chance/perk/playstyle, other than your computer I guess crashing, that would make the outcome different. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921191#Comment_3921191
Ok and what about the last survivor remaining? Down them and they are the last one down. They abandon instantly...why?
So theres one person alive, 3 people dead?
And you down them and you …. want them to watch the mori instead of take an abandon(loss)? -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921179#Comment_3921179
I have never said strip it entirely, I said I support the abandon to prevent 4min slugging and even suggested ways that accomplish that and it would make it work as intended.
You say these are fringe abuse cases but it's happening more and more frequently and this is just the start, it's a fairly new mechanic and if I'm noticing matches where it's regularly being abused now I hate to think what it would be like a few months down the line.
If it counted as a loss it would be fine, it wouldn't give survivors any benefit to abandon. Just like they can DC at any time. I'm arguing against survivors abusing it for their own gain and avoiding a loss is using it for their own gain. I'm not pushing for any system, I'm simply saying I can understand why some killers would want what survivors have that's all. I still honestly don't understand why people can't sit through 15seconds...as survivor I have no issues sitting out the mori animation. Just seems crazy to me, very much like "I don't want see that I lost, let's quickly bypass it and pretend it never happened". Is it seriously that much of an issue that people can't stand 15 seconds? 4min I can understand but 15 seconds? Come on...what next, complain about the short animation at the start? They want to skip that?
Its something they have to do for everyone involved, remember that the abandon feature is a team wide mechanic its not just the person you JUST downed its everyone else that has been sitting there as well.
Saying "its just 15 seconds whats the big deal" for a slug on the last person, sort of misses that key point of the abandon feature.
Its not just one person waiting 15 seconds its several other people waiting over a minute at that point.
You could I suppose punish the one person, forcing them to … watch the mori I guess?? I wouldnt want that but maybe you do?
Me personally the mori thing should never have been implemented as it encouraged this whole slugging delima in the first place but thats a separate discussion. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921169#Comment_3921169
Where are you getting this idea that bots only exist because survivors are forced to sit there and do nothing? survivors are abandoning first chance they get, I'm getting bit matches pretty often because peoyare bringing unbreakable and not using it, they abandon and leave the bots use it instead.
I understand why abandon exists but as I said it's not being used just for that reason. It's being used beyond it's intent, being used to skip 15 seconds not 4min. There's a big difference. It was never intended to be used to skip a mori animation penalty free.
Slugged survivors that have things like unbreakable do have full control that's my point. That's the current system. They have just as much control over the gameplay and ability to play the match as the killer does. They choose to bring these perks and choose to not use them. Again there is no difference between killer and survivor in this situation. You seem to be fixated on what the abandon feature was designed for instead of what it actually does currently. Currently it provides survivors that have full control over wether they recover or not, unhook or not, it provides them with a get out free card to skip the bits they don't like. Killers don't have this, not should they but survivors shouldn't have this either. Abandon should be to prevent 4min bleedout only, not give survivors a way to get out the match when they have the ability to continue and not to skip 15 seconds because they simply don't like it. It's getting crazy, can't handle 4min bleed out, fair enough. can't handle being hooked, hm ok. now can't handle 15 seconds. There needs to be a line drawn somewhere.
You're hyperfocused on fringe abuse cases and ignoring the broader gameplay problem that made abandon necessary.
If survivors misuse it, that's a separate balance issue, not a reason to strip it entirely. Or add something equally abuseable on the killer side (broken on top of broken).
Like your whole issue at the start was its draw condition above, lets just make it a loss instead. Problem solved. Push for that change.Not push for another abusable system.
And we could open the door to stuff like perk detection but it would just arrive at the same problem we had before. Like the game could try to detect slugged survivors if they had unbreakable for example and disable the abandon feature for the team.
But then youd run into scenarios where killers would be like "use your unbreak, I know you have it". Or griefers that join survivor now have another tool to grief, if things dont go their way.
Im not saying the system is perfect at all. I would want abandon to be a loss if you all are slugged/hooked 100%
I dont want the system implemented because someone cant stomach running to a gate and hitting m1. -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921169#Comment_3921169
Why are you keep repeating exact same statement which has been already proven wrong? that doesn't lead you anywhere
Forum doesn't really have a victory condition of "last reply wins", either
Because the core difference is being dodged, control vs no control.
If people wont engage with that, we’re just talking past each other.
You specifically though seem to be going off on something else entirely as you already showed your cards with this comment:All I can say about it is that if you thinks crawling doesn't matter, you are extremely bad at playing survivors, objectively speaking
Seems like you are here to ridicule others, and play semantics, rather than engage in honest constructive discussion.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921155#Comment_3921155
What I'm talking about is the last survivor being able to abandon the second they are downed. The killer can't even pick them up before they abandon. The second the Mori starts they abandon. The match is over, 15 seconds and all will be in the post game lobby. But no, they abandon saving themselves 15 seconds.
A situation I had recently was, 2 survivors left... Hooked one, went after the last one while the other was hooked. Hooked them as well. Both on hook, both abandon and turn into bots. 1 bot frees themselves and unhooks the other bot. Now at this point the match is still very much in play, either 1 could potentially get the hatch, 1 could potentially finish a gen. But the survivors have skipped this gameplay penalty free.
I think people are assuming that downed or hooked means the end, there is nothing survivors can do but that's nonsense, if bots can still play the match, get chased, do gens and even heal themselves so can other people. But they abandon, skipping all this gameplay. Why can't killers abandon skipping whatever gameplay there is at the gate? So by your gameplay argument that survivors have to sit there doesn't make sense. There is no argument that justifies any difference, killers have gameplay at the gates, survivors have gameplay if they can recover or unhook. Mori animation takes 15 seconds, hitting out the gate takes 15 seconds.
For sure though, you're describing rare edge cases and ignoring why the feature exists: to stop 4-minute bleedouts where no one can play.
You still have full control at the gate — powers, speed, decisions. Slugged survivors don’t.
Bots only exist because people were forced to sit there doing nothing. You want to equate 15 seconds of action to several minutes of forced downtime, I say is not the same.
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Thats great I dont think this thread was even about that but I am glad you are now telling others they are "extremely bad at playing survivors"
Good luck! -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921155#Comment_3921155
You are playing an entirely different game if you can't move while being slugged
If you think crawling counts as real gameplay, we’re definitely not on the same page.
Let me know if you have anymore semantic takes though -
@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921138#Comment_3921138
Can we not act like it's not INCREDIBLY easy for a survivor to hide during the entire EGC, and only leave at the last second, which if healthy is completely safe to do and oftentimes is exactly what happens, been there done that.
I also don't really see the difference, why is one side allowed to instantly leave the game the moment they lost, but the other side has to wait 10 minutes if they want to give up? If the killer wants to forfeit the match that they feel is over, I don't see any harm is such. The only thing I would say it should require is an exit gate to be open as to avoid said tome challenges from being interfered with, or just a 1 minute timer after the last gen pops before killer can give up.
Lastly, not everyone feels the same about BM as you do, but to most of us it really does feel like ######### and we'd like to just move on with good sportsmanship, something that is hard to come by in this community.Totally fair that not everyone feels the same about BM, and yeah, it's frustrating when people abuse the endgame just to be toxic. No argument there. But it’s important to separate that emotional frustration from mechanical problems.
Survivors hiding until the last second? Annoying, sure. But the killer still has the tools to find, chase, hit, and push them out, you’re not locked out of gameplay. You can even choose to walk away and let the timer end.
Meanwhile, the Abandon feature was added because survivors who were all downed had literally nothing left to do. It wasn’t about skipping a loss, it was about skipping being immobilized for 4 minutes, unable to interact with the game in any way.
As for giving killers a forfeit option, that’s a fair idea to explore, but it should be based on actual dead game states, not just emotions like “they’re teabagging and I don’t want to be here.” That’s not a design flaw, that’s just malding.
There is a difference between wanting to skip gameplay and wanting to skip humiliation. Only one of those actually breaks the game.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921150#Comment_3921150
Same reason why killers can't bypass 15 sec of hitting survivors out the gate. Why can't survivors handle 15 sec of Mori but killers can?
We’ve kind of gone in a circle here, or you're just ignoring half the problem with slugging. It’s not just about time, it’s about gameplay.
Being slugged means you can’t play, can’t move, and can be stuck for minutes. That’s not the same as a 15-second animation.
Or taking 15 seconds to go push people out.
You move at full speed, still can attack, still have your power. The only change is you cant defend generators.
Survivors, you just sit there on the ground waiting.
They arent equal.If you're going to argue they’re equal, you have to actually address that gameplay gap not just say “well it takes 15 seconds either way.”
Like why is it so important to watch a 15 second animation?
The abandon feature happens when the last person is downed/hooked.
I feel, with your 15 seconds idea here, you are describing a vacuum where its just one person down and they immediately get out. The other 1-3 players have been sitting there for a minute or more.
unlikewise you could get a kill at the exit gates, happens ALL of the time. Not just perk based either. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921145#Comment_3921145
The reason it was in place was so survivors didn't have to endure 4min of being on the ground, but that's now turned into more than it's design. Now it's being used to skip the end entirely, skip being hooked and skip mori and settle for a draw instead of a loss. I'm hoping bhvr pays attention to these forums and realizes how this system is being manipulated beyond their intent.
Like you say it takes 15 seconds to push someone out the gate, its roughly the same time it takes for Mori animation but survivors can bypass it. This shouldn't be a thing. Abandon to prevent 4min slug yes, abandon to skip 15 seconds of end game is unbelievable from killer and survivor side.
Sometimes it takes showing people what it's like to have something broken on the other side before people realize how broken it is, then the broken thing gets fixed which can result in balance. It's about raising awareness to get the issue sorted not directly using broken to fix broken.
its roughly the same time it takes for Mori animation but survivors can bypass it. This shouldn't be a thing.
Why?
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921126#Comment_3921126
I agree, in principal they are 2 completely different things and not comparable at all. But that is IF survivors can't get back up. And IF survivors lost the match after abandoning. I mean no way to recover, no way to win. And IF they are downed for a length of time. But currently this is not the system in place.
You said it yourself, if the killer is choosing to not chase survivors out they are holding themselves hostage. If survivors are choosing not to get back up when they have the means to do so they too are holding themselves hostage. If someone has unbreakable or a boon or that perk that gaurentees unhook in the basement for example they are not helpless, they are choosing to remain down and choosing to abandon as a means to quickly go next with a "draw" outcome instead of "loss".
Essentially it's a broken abandon system and people are asking for the same thing for killer so others realize how broken it is and how broken it would be on the other side.
Maybe if they fixed it so survivors couldn't use the abandon system as a means of avoiding a "loss" and if they changed it so killers that are not leaving people slugged have time to pick up and hook as per game design or prevented abandon when survivors have the choice to recover. Then I would agree with you and fully support the abandon feature for survivor and not killer no one wants to be slugged intentionally for 4min. but as it stands it's a broken system that makes very little sense so my interpretation of the OP is basically highlighting "fix the broken system or give killers the same broken system"
I agree, in principal they are 2 completely different things and not comparable at all. But that is IF survivors can't get back up. And IF survivors lost the match after abandoning. I mean no way to recover, no way to win. And IF they are downed for a length of time. But currently this is not the system in place.
The reason the system was put in place was to bypass people taking the game hostage for several minutes. Its not about winning or losing.
T-bagging doesnt last that long, unless the killer made it last that long.
Slugging lasts that long, because the killer made it last that long.You said it yourself, if the killer is choosing to not chase survivors out they are holding themselves hostage. If survivors are choosing not to get back up when they have the means to do so they too are holding themselves hostage. If someone has unbreakable or a boon or that perk that gaurentees unhook in the basement for example they are not helpless, they are choosing to remain down and choosing to abandon as a means to quickly go next with a "draw" outcome instead of "loss".
Survivors not using a self pick up and instead bleeding out isnt holding the game hostage. They have no control over the killer refusing to hook them.
This is the second thing about draw and lose, if your whole problem of it is this aspect. Then get the devs to change it to a loss instead, since this matters so much, as it seems to be your core problem with the system. It being a draw and not a loss.Essentially it's a broken abandon system and people are asking for the same thing for killer so others realize how broken it is and how broken it would be on the other side.
If thats what the community is asking for then they are just as silly as that suggestion. You dont stack broken on top of broken, that doesnt magically make things equal or fair.
Broken + broken =/= balance
Broken + broken = more broken
You could apply this same argument to people thinking killers need to be buffed up to nurse/blight/kaneki (broken).Maybe if they fixed it so survivors couldn't use the abandon system as a means of avoiding a "loss" and if they changed it so killers that are not leaving people slugged have time to pick up and hook as per game design or prevented abandon when survivors have the choice to recover. Then I would agree with you and fully support the abandon feature for survivor and not killer no one wants to be slugged intentionally for 4min. but as it stands it's a broken system that makes very little sense so my interpretation of the OP is basically highlighting "fix the broken system or give killers the same broken system"
Thats not OPs argument, or the person I originally responded to.
If it was then they would have asked to make the abandon feature a loss, not a draw. None of that language was used in the OP or the response I initially responded to.
"be jerks about it" is just them malding over tbagging. Something they have control over the duration of it or not.
Which is not the case for slugging 4+ minutes on bleed out timers.
You cant just say
"well maybe all survivors should just bring boon expo and unbreakable if they dont like being slugged"
Would be the same thing as saying:
"well maybe killers should just wait out DH"
Things have to change for balance, gameplay, and QOL. Slugging for extremely long times was a reason for it.
But they dont need to change because someone cant take 10-15 seconds to push someone out after a loss. -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921130#Comment_3921130
Either way you can't do anything meaningful, it's just a waste of time in either case, I don't see any difference between two
If anything, the fact you are forced to do actions is much worse when end result is same anyways
But you do you, I guess
You dont see the difference between several minutes of taking the game hostage.
Versus
Someone who is emotionally charged, not pushing people out the exit gate.
Indeed, you do you. -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921126#Comment_3921126
Slugged survivors also have complete control, they just can't do anything meaningful, exactly same as most killers at gate
One situation you are forced to wait for minutes (why the update happened)
The other situation you are not.
Lets make sure we dont get the two situations twisted here.
There is a clear problem with one of them(design)
And a completely different problem with the other (emotional) -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921067#Comment_3921067
I could be wrong but I think the point might be that survivors that get downed or hooked and have the ability to get up and continue the game via unbreakable or boons or even unhooking perks choose not to use these perks and instead opt for abandon which gives them a draw instead of loss.
The killer equivalent (or closest to it) would be all survivors at the gate waiting... The killer would have the ability to chase them out but could instead opt for abandon which would give the killer a draw instead of a loss.
I do agree that if survivors have an option to quickly get out of the match penalty free, keep everything and not lose MMR even though they lost or could potentially carry on the match then killers should have the equivalent. Otherwise survivor abandon should be tweaked so they don't get a draw for abandoning a match they lost or maybe don't allow it to be instant they are downed. But as it stands I can see why killers would want the equivalent of what survivors have....a way out fast, penalty free, skip the end game celebration (Mori for killer, t bagging for survivors)
- There’s a big difference between the survivor Abandon feature and what’s being asked for on the killer side.
- Survivor Abandon exists because sometimes the game was literally taken hostage, they’re slugged with no way to recover, and the killer is just wasting everyone’s time. That’s a design issue that needed a fix.
- But when the exit gates are powered and survivors are standing there teabagging, the killer isn’t powerless. You have complete control. You can walk up, swing, body block, or just let them leave and end the match.
- If you're choosing to stand there and watch it, or hide afk in some part of the match, that’s not the game holding you hostage, that’s just you holding yourself hostage.
- One situation traps players in place with no way out. The other is just someone refusing action because their pride got poked.
No idea why there is bullets all over my post but okay then…
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@Cetren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920940#Comment_3920940
Perks and powers/addons that work, and are based with being in the dying state or being carried exist too. And the abandon feature still works then. I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't think this is a good argument.
Wait are you talking about why you are able to abandon on survivor versus killer with this comment?
Gates being open = you cant stall the game unless the killer decides to not push you out
Being slugged/down = you can stall the game because you decide when the survivors die for several minutes
These two scenarios have nothing to do with one another.
Survivors being left to bleed out for minutes =/= a killer refusing to push survivors out of the gates
Like what is this argument:
"Yea I slugged the survivors on the ground to sit for several minutes, but they get an abandon feature for this. So I should beable to abandon when they open the gate"
????? -
Perks and powers/addons that work, and are based with, the gates open so this wouldnt be a thing sadly
Push them out with walking and attacking -
I dont know why they still exist, they are absolutely ridiculous. Insta kill and aura read addons… they arent fun, interactive, or scary.
Or fair.
it makes me have a certain rule when I face meyers in SoloQ sadly. -
Always has been
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I dont know maybe some dev saw too many montages of the top .000001 % of players who make use of these things.
I guarantee every single person commenting here sees more flashbang fails, by a CHASM of magnitude, than success stories. -
The hell would I do that for?
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Play fetch with it with throw pebble