Cheeki_Beaky_Bird
Cheeki_Beaky_Bird
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Something to add: Survivors can still vault while speared in this manor
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Yeah, this is what I mean :P
The survivors don't get anything out of a game like that, just let it end, right?
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@Schmierbach said:
Don't DC, Don't get Punished. Its that simple. You have no right to ruin the game for everyone else just because you can't deal with the match. If you must leave the match just afk or let yourself die on the hook like a coward.
And this is why I bring up this proposition: A lot less of the 4 survivor's time is wasted by someone conceding the game and it ending immediately, than by a killer going AFK.
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And maybe also fix the fact that Wraith can be stunlocked with a flashlight :)
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egc starts when an exit gate has been fully opened :/
I think you mean once exit gates are powered?
We could just have instead: Once generators are powered, hooking a survivor blocks the exit switches for 30 seconds. Once an exit gate is opened, hooking a survivor blocks both exits for 1 minute and disables Blood Warden.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144638#Comment_1144638
Play a different game if you find this one so frustrating.
I HATE facecamp Bubba/Doc, etc. but I won’t ragequit when it happens.
I was proposing this on the basis that the current way that DC penalties scale and decay ENCOURAGES a killer to facecamping rather than quit. Would you rather the game end instantly, or the Bubba face camp your teammate because they have no better option?
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144782#Comment_1144782
Tunneling a survivor is a strategy. Not a reason to DC. Ffs....
You seem to be unwilling to actually read something before disagreeing with it.
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@Polychrome_Baku said:
Every online game punishes you for leaving because it impacts everyone else when you decide to yeet your ethernet cable out because you don't want to play anymore. I'd rather players like OP to just leave the game entirely. In PVP games, not every match is going to cater to your idea of fun. Get. Over. Yourself. People like OP ruin CS:GO, League, and other games that I play.
Most online games do that, sure, and most online games feature surrender mechanics, don't put mid-tier players against the highest ranked players in the game, and have a casual mode.
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:/ Read plz
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@C3Tooth said:
Ok, so quit a game per day isnt toxic, because it cause you lose 5min. 5min is alot of time I understand.
Now image you have 1-2 players DC the 1st game which they will not get any penalty, try to calculate how much time you lost to get another lobby with other 20.000 players. Dont expect the same 4 people you play 20 matches later.
I will give you an example as you play with 10 other players in 5 matches, who allowed to DC ONCE per day.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/258/GR0FK1A4Z6DU.png
I know the 5min penalty is abit harsh, but its needed.
I think you've missunderstood.
What I'm proposing would not, and could not ever conceivably, prevent someone from getting a 5 minute penalty.
There are NO DCs IN DBD that do not carry at least the 5 minute penalty. I AGREE WITH THIS.
I am proposing we change the decay time before penalties get larger, such that it goes down 1 stage (so back to 5 if the previous DC was 5) after 12 hours, rather than 24. I realize now my title and post don't quite line up, I'm going to fix that.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143293#Comment_1143293
Again, this guy isnt talking about a 1 in 100 game looping genrush deathsquad. Hes talking about literally insta dropping a pallet at the loop.
Now I dont know about you, but I have three and a half years of killer under my belt. I know this isnt even remotely viable against a half educated killer.
whoopsie wrong reply button my b. this isnt spam, right?
They weren't quite saying instadropping, I think they meant running around a little bit but dropping once there's any real danger.
I'm currently Rank 7 (grazed 6 for a bit) and struggle when survivors do this too, if they pop the wrong gens while the first guy is burning pallets than you don't have a game to play. Even worse if they bring an anti-hemoragic so you need to hit them an extra time.
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I did sit in green ranks for a while, yeah. I'm purple currently, and have been playing against teams that are 3 or 4 red ranks in 75+% of my games.
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@PBsamichShoe said:
I play mostly survivor seeing as how the lobby always crashes when I try to play killer ever since the dedicated servers for console went down.
I truly don't understand how people who play killer can complain. The game is inherently built to make the killer superior to the survivors. Even the game's back story with the whole entity thing is biased towards the killer experience. I mean as far as story goes the entity doesn't snatch people up to torment the sadistic killers with a game of cat and mouse.
When the dedicated servers were up and I was able to play as killer I found it to be every bit as NOT challenging as I would have imagined it to be after having played survivor for like 3k hours.
As an example when playing as killer I abided by the following self-imposed rules from my experience of what made playing survivor totally NOT fun.
- I literally set a timer at the beginning of the match. If I came across any survivors in the first 2 minutes I would not hit them , hook them, or down them. The only circumstance under which I would M1 hit them is if they didn't flee from my presence if they saw me in those first two minutes.
- No camping the hook.
- No tunneling anyone. After 45 seconds of chasing someone I basically looked for an opportunity to break pursuit. Maybe by going in the direction of where someone was pallet vaulting or if someone popped a gen or if I saw another survivor during the chase.
- No basement hooks.
Even following these rules with no add ons and only one perk I still had to TRY not to kill all survivors or at least get 20k BP at the end of the match.
I played as every killer except for the following:
Legion
Clown
Demogorgon
Oni
Plague
Spirit
Huntress
Leatherface
The only one out of all the killers I played as that I thought was a bit challenging was the Pig, at least until I figured out how to user her lunge attack properly.
As a killer even without any add ons or perks you are:
Invincible
Faster than survivors and you gain speed the longer you are in pursuit of them
The only one in the match who can attack
Know where all the gens are
Play as survivor for a hundred hours or so and you can easily see how much more challenging it is. The only reason I can see why it is this way is because the devs rely on killers to host the match. The killers wield a lot of power because the game relies on them to be there because the game is asymmetrical. No one cares if survivors complain because it doesn't matter if a survivor rage quits a game but if a killer does then the match is over.
That's my $.02
I, uh, did play survivor for a while. I escaped the vast majority of my games, and promptly got bored because the vast, vast majority of them where almost entirely me holding M1 for a while and then escaping, or making mindless use of pallets because if I use each pallet I come across with some even mild restraint I can take up enough time for the remaining generators to pop.
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@MiniPixels said:
If people were allowed to dc once a day the dc problem would be the same, if not even worse than before, it doesn't matter which side your on, or what your reasoning is, DCing is ruining the game for 4 other players, and with long matchmaking at the moment, that's a lot of time people can't get back. If your a survivor play the game out, earn some bloodpoints, and don't kermit die on hook. If your killer do the same thing, if your getting bullied by a 4 man SWF try your best, learn their habits and adapt to get better at facing people like these in the future, even if you lose your de-pipping less than you would if you d/cd. DCing should only be necessary for emergencies, if you aren't dcing for an emergency than the dc penalty is working as intended. That's just my take on the situation.
Matchmaking is pretty exclusively a problem for survivors, killers can get into games easily with how few of them there are nowadays. I imagine that that's in part BECAUSE of this - people don't really want to spend however long it takes for a trial to end being forced to "play". This is supposed to be a game, that people do for fun, not some kind of sick sport. (Well, the Entity would disagree with me there.)
Let's put this into the context of a different game. Let's say you where playing CS:GO Wingman - it's a 2v2 mode that takes a while to get through a match of, and has a ranked ladder.
Now let's imagine that you where a Nova Master - around the midpoint for CS:GO's ranks - and where being pitted (for some unholy reason) against Global Elites - the highest rank bracket.
Sure, you might learn a little bit once in a blue moon, but for the most part, you're just getting shot in the head repeatedly for a good while. That's time YOU can't get back. You can see the value in being able to concede a game in this sort of situation.
Now, let's look at it from the other side: Imagine you're the Global Elite player. You play CS:GO like no tomorrow, and... you're bored out of your mind. You aren't being challenged, you don't have any variation between rounds, you're just shooting a guy in the face again, and again, and again. Maybe they even stop playing and just stand still throughout the rounds, so you're just walking across the map to shoot them in the face. Wouldn't you rather an outmatched opponent be able to concede so you can get into a more meaningful game?
Obviously, DBD and CS:GO are very different games, but the idea still holds, a little bit. We get green ranked killers facing off against Reds, and even Rank 1s, all the time. Many survivor games are just mindless holding M1 with a little bit of excitement for the 1 player that loops the killer.
You're never going to get back a second of the time you spend holding M1 and occasionally mashing space while your buddy loops some newby. Wouldn't you prefer to get into a new match sooner, and get some excitement?
Yes, DCing does ruin the game for 4 other players, BUT: You really have to consider that some games are just bad. There's next to nothing to ruin, because there's such a wide skill gap that the two sides are hardly interacting with each other anymore. Do you WANT games like that to force 5 people to sit around doing nothing interesting?
If we want to get shorter matchmaking times, we have to start taking serious steps into making killer more enticing to play. You're not going to reel in a lot of new killer players if they're getting hammered so hard their kids are going to feel it in half their games.
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As I tried to be clear about: I'm proposing we decrease the decay time on the DC penalty length, NOT allow players to quite games with any degree of frequency. Anyone who quits more than once every 12 hours would still get the EXACT same penalties as they do now.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
Leaving the match is always toxic.
Sorry, but your teammates and opponents are just some strangers on the internet and dont care about your feelings.
Deal with it or face the punishment. If you are frustrated or angry then dont play the game.
I really don't see it that way. Conceding that the survivors are so much better than you that there's no point continuing the trial is, if anything. beneficial to those strangers on the internet - they don't have to sit around holding M1 rather than getting into a new game sooner.
If it really where an issue of "Deal with it or face the punishment" I wouldn't have made this thread. I'm bringing this up in an attempt to stop the prevalence of the third and fourth options: Going AFK, or picking a survivor and tunneling and facecamping to ensure that they die no matter how well they play. Those options aren't fun to play against (even less so than instantly escaping), and having less intense scaling on the DC penalties like I suggested will help to curb that behavior.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144716#Comment_1144716
Survivor DCs matter. One DC is often the difference between a pip and a blackpip.
I've usually experienced otherwise, but I've been playing at purple ranks rather than red.
I can certainly imagine leaving the survivor in-game but just not doing anything when the player behind them DCs could fix this, though.
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@Pok Maybe something else that could be done: When a player DCs from a game, their character just stops doing any actions, but remains in the trial and can be interacted with normally. Maybe we could EVENTUALLY make a system to allow reconnects, though I imagine it'll take some time to work out the behind-the-scenes stuff for that.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144700#Comment_1144700
Even if you leave out that argument there are still the survivor DCs.
Okay? Survivor DCs are VERY inconsequential. The killer loses out on a bit of BP and a little bit of chaser/malicious emblem, but ultimately the game goes the same as if the survivor killed themself on hook. As I said earlier, I don't really care what the final decision is for survivor DC penalties, because survivors DCing doesn't matter much at all.
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@Pok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144677#Comment_1144677
I prefer a killer who stops playing to a killer who DC personally. At least I get to do my objectives/challenges and my points. Of course I would prefer a killer who actually plays but it's just frustrating for me if a killer DC early.
And as you said, we are all humans. You may be a frustrated human, but if you DC, you just make 4 more frustrated humans. I understand that the game matchmaking is absolutely horrible, but I can't encourage DC as a solution
I can understand that, and ultimately, I'm not trying to say we should make the penalties so mild that DCing can be a default solution to the issue, but we're being a little bit harsh on the whole.
Maybe a bit of an addendum to the idea: We could heftily increase punishments if the exit gates are powered, because at that point the killer CAN bring the game to an end by force.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144677#Comment_1144677
As survivor you basically screw your team by ragequitting, if the killer got sum brain. As killer you steal the survivors BP, because their match is usually going well.
"Stealing BP" is a stretch - the survivors all get the 5000 points for escaping instantly, keep their offerings, and are able to start into a new game immediately. They wouldn't exactly be earning Boldness or Altruism points if the killer where to just AFK, either.
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@Nickeleye said:
DC penalties are a must in the game. People need to be held accountable for their behavior or crappy internet. Both hurt the game for those of us out here just trying to play.
I agree! DCing at the drop of a hat (or the cleanse of a totem), or a connection so bad that you can't realistically get through games, is something that 100% justifies scaling leave penalties. That's why I'm saying we should reduce the decay time to 12 hours, rather than removing DC penalties altogether. If a player DCs more than once every 12 hours, this won't change their ban times at all, but for those that are leaving only about one game a day, it softens up the bans some.
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@Heartbound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144653#Comment_1144653
To be honest I can't really take a side. If you look at this games sister, Identity V, they have the same camping issue but they have survivors like the embalmed that warp the "hooked" survivor away to counter it entirely.
Our survivors are just skins, and players will always find justifications for how they play. Obviously I can tell devs want people to play all the way through the game, but that's not always a fun thing to do and nobody wants to spend a game not having fun.
I don't envy the devs. Its not an easy fix in this game.
Oh, yeah, I agree, this is... not an easy issue for them to resolve. I'm trying to propose a relatively minor change to the penalty decay system to try to soften things up a little for general game health, but I can understand that a lot of folks are scared of any change.
I really do feel that the DC button needs to be seen more as conceding the game - something survivors can readily do in a few seconds by letting the killer get them, and kill themself on hook, but that the killer can only do by standing still and hoping the survivors do gens rather than run circles next to them.
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@CashelP14 said:
Die on hook. Not too hard, rewards the killer and removes a hook from the game which can help the team.
Players like you are the reason the game isn't balanced. I don't like rage quitters and I think that ruins this game. I don't want to wait 15 mins for someone to just leave immediately because they couldn't last 10 seconds in a chase.
You can't complain about facing swf teams as killer then. It's players with your mentality that make players join swf teams.
You can't complain about the balance of the game because your rage quitting is more than likely killing your team. Which then gives the devs stats that say killer is getting easy 4ks.
I was more referring to killer, as I said earlier, survivors really have no need to DC in most cases where the game isn't being held hostage because of how quickly they can kill themselves.
You've somehow gotten the erroneous impression I play a lot of survivor - I occasionally touched it but found holding M1 for a minute+ at a time boring as hell.
@NursesBootie said:
You're screwing four people, if you DC. Every DC should be punished.
That's pretty debatable. If a killer where to just stop playing instead of disconnecting, would the survivors be any less screwed? They now need to spend even more time to get out of the trial and back into que. Is that what we want to encourage?
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I can appreciate that some people are a bit quick on the trigger with deciding they don't want to finish a game, but I'm not trying to defend that. I'm suggesting one DC in the span of **12 hours** being the volume that keeps you at the same ban duration.
What I had more in mind where games where a killer is pitted against survivors who are completely beyond them in terms of skill, that they can't realistically play a game against.
I'm not saying DCing on the regular is OK, but you have to really stretch to claim that leaving one match of a game that has 10-minute rounds every 12 hours is unreasonable.
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@Heartbound said:
Its really important to spend time in matches you're not enjoying so the other players can have a good time and make sure that they can pip.
Just remember to play another game of dead by daylight after your experience!
Thanks and have fun!
I understand that, and I'm not trying to say we shouldn't be discouraging people from DCing or AFKing, I'm just saying that the current measures are a bit extreme, and are a little overdemanding of players.
I respect that everyone having a good time is important, but often if a killer is having a bad enough time that they'd normally quit but can't, they resort to playing in a manor that isn't very fun for the survivors so as to secure one or two kills (tunneling and face camping).
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@Stitch7833 said:
i mean just dont quit? that way people might learn to get better, adapt to certain situations, and the game might even turn around in your favor. quitting shouldnt be acceptable in any game that is online. The people who are so pathetic to quit multiple games a day ruins the game for other survivors/the killer, either learn to get better or accept you cant win every game... i dont see why anyone would want people to quit, the only people that do are the ones that quit themselves and the behavior shouldnt be support. i for one dont want a teammate to quit because they got downed by being outplayed, you ruin the game and its F`ing annoying have 3v1 games, dont quit and you wont get banned.
Oh, no, IDGAF about survivors with this DC penalty stuff. Survivors are literally unaffected by it because they can kill themselves on hook in 10 seconds.
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@White_Owl said:
I actually see more Nurses in high ranks than before.
The statistics they put out say otherwise.
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Most killers: 4k in purple rank but safety pip
Legion: 2k and pip
Survivors: No survivals and 2 gens done, everyone pips!
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I don't really expect anyone to actually get banned for this unless there's some really malicious intent queing at the same time as your friend to be one of their survivors so you can help your friend).
If a survivor is just being stupid, I'll take advantage of it for the most part. If they're OBVIOUSLY trying to ######### over the team, I'll slug them and leave them on the ground unless they get close to the bleedout timer. Not like they're going to be doing gens.
Edit: queing, not wiring. Stupid autocorrect.
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Monitor and Abuse with Infectious Fright. Both provide great value on their own, and getting the extra range on detection is a huge plus.
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This a better brag for you?
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Congratulations, a newbie Hillbilly had no clue what they where talking about.
Meanwhile, as a green ranked killer, I have games vs. red ranks where 3 gens pop together 60 seconds into the trial.
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2 Rank 1s, a rank 2, and a rank 4 against a rank 10 Huntress with extra hatchets and reload speed.
Honestly the only way that'd be vaguely unusual is if they brought Irri head, Infantry belt and a Mori.
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Startup animations are definitely important, especially with how iffy grabs are since we got dedicated servers, hook interrupts have been next to impossible.
I agree that hatch is... yeah, it shouldn't be in the game.
Ultimately, though, that's outside the scope of something we can hope for: There are a lot of achievements tied to hatch, and BHVR hates making changes that mean they have to change an achievement as well. Apparently it's really hard to do with Playstation?
We have to take baby steps. Balance what we can without too drastic of a change.
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@hex_genrush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1139123#Comment_1139123
Moris are apart of the game, just accept it.
I mean, that IS true. Ultimately, I feel like changes to Moris are definitely in order, maybe being able to kill 1/all survivors after you've gotten 4 hooks total. I'm trying to address keys here, though by all means, if you want to start a productive thread on Moris we could go into detail on how those could be improved!
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Yup! Yup, it is. (Well, two of the keys, anyways).
Read the post!
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Agreed, the moment a key enters the game before all gens are done, the killer is put on the receiving end of nothing fun or really fair. (Not that this isn't the only unfair thing, Mori's definitely need some... Changes...)
This change also brings SWF and solo closer in line, no more can a SWF can coordinate an easy 2/3 player escape with 2/1 generators left . AND it doesn't muck with the achievement.
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@Peanits said:
For the record, we aren't aiming to make every game end in 2-2. This is just an average. You might do better in some games and worse in others.
You can safety pip with only two kills if you played well enough. If you struggled and just barely got them (by camping, for instance), you'd probably depip.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1139704#Comment_1139704
We actually made a change to Gatekeeper at the same time to compensate, conveniently enough.
A major issue here is that the ranking system considers 1-shotting players as "struggling". Plague's broken status, as well as many perks and powers that deal 2 damage or apply exposed, are treated as a single hit, and provide very small gains to the Chaser and Malicious emblems, while Legion can realistically pip without hooking survivors at all because of the very large numbers of hits, short chases, and deep wound hits on injured survivors.
The ranking system also makes no consideration for what a killer (or survivors) are up against. A Key, Mori, and other items and killer add-ons will have drastic changes on a game.
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@toxicmegg said:
keys are part of the game, just accept it.
So are Mori's and facecamping. That doesn't mean we can't strive to make the game better.
@NoShinyPony said:
Re-opening a hatch that has been previously closed is ok imho. The big problem with keys is when 2 or 3 survivors make an early exit, not when the last survivor uses it to escape.
That's fair, if 3 people are dead, I can understand a key coming into play.
Maybe a revised proposal: The hatch does not become visible until all generators are completed or only 1 player is left alive. If the hatch is opened with a key, and then closed, the hatch is removed for the rest of the match.
This way, it doesn't affect 1v1s unless the hatch has allready been opened and closed (meaning there's been plenty of time to pressure an exit gate), and it also removes the most frustrating aspect of the key: Having one (or two, if two players died) generators completely bypassed.
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Exactly!
There's no excuse for Devs to still be sitting on this issue after so long, it isn't like it's some kind of recently discovered exploit.
The fix is relatively straightforward, and instead we're getting entirely new mechanics added (Destructible walls, new killer.) And while we're at it, why does the Wraith STILL not uncloack when flashlight burned? Two ways to hold the game hostage that are a simple patch away and have been consistently ignored...
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Ruin needed a nerf, NOT a change.
A MUCH BETTER change would have been to stop treating the regression penalty as a silent failed skillcheck (like Autodidact before you get stacks, the bar goes down but you keep working), and restore great skillchecks to normal. This would make it COMPLETELY overcomable, reduce the penalty, and stop it from being nearly as impactful to multiple survivors on one gen.
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The devs have (intentionally or inadvertently) nerfed and reworked killers as much as they can to cram killer players into the roll of babysitting a self-driving car.
Killers that have powerful ways to outplay survivors (Nurse, Spirit) have recieved hefty changes to reduce or remove their ability to apply their skill directly to chases.
Oh, also Wraith STILL doesn't decloack properly when stunned. Also you can stun him on command with a flashlight. You can STUN LOCK THE KILLER. :/
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Killer:
Getting stunned by dedicated servers and get nothing because I managed to grab on my screen.
Survivors who throw pallets super early - even if it makes chases easy late game it's SO BORING, zero interraction for me while there are pallets, then zero interraction once there are none left.
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Not at all. Survivors can still quit any time with hook suicide (or just do the gens, if they aren't being killed...) While killer is powerless to force the game to a quick end until all gens pop or hatch is open.
The DC penalty disregards HOW MANY games you play, instead how often (on a clock) you DC. If you play 2 games a day and DC just shy of once per 24 hours, it sits at 5 minute bans, but if you play 30 games a day and DC just a bit more often than once every 24 hours it escalated indefinitely. You should instead get an allowance of 1 DC per (x games, I don't know what a good number would be) so that IF you are using DCs very sparingly and playing through the vast majority of your games, you get no ban at all.
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I'm 100% on board with this.
Imagine a dragon chasing you around! Smashing through pallets easily but struggling with all those tight spaces and tiny windows
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Competent survivors can easily push a chase to 60 seconds when no pallets have been used up. 4 pallets and a few window vaults will easily net you a full minute. Even as a green ranked survivor, I managed it once against a red ranked Doctor while the Reds I'd SWFd with popped 3 gens. If I can do it despite 90% of my games being killer, I'm sure plenty of others can too.
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I would say Kindred without the killer aura read, and give kindred a better killer aura read, and some additional functionality (maybe a small heal speed buff to non hooked survivors?)
Make all dull totems passively affect survivors. Maybe a 1.5 percent action speed reduction?
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Adrenaline is earned.
Don't like it? Do your job and avoid the gens being worked on.
Realistically there's no way to prevent gens popping against non-braindead survivors. If a survivor can last 60 seconds in first chase, and it took you 20 seconds to find them, bam, that's more than half of the gens done. Even sooner if toolboxes are present.
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Just remove the bar. If it's a stability think, make it so that the bar is a delay, but releasing doesn't cancel. If it's a doing it by accident thing, change it to Ctrl. (And change pickups to Ctrl too to stop window/locker facing pickups from resulting in a search or vault)