CautionaryMary
CautionaryMary
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820489#Comment_3820489
I don't see people running Self care, Botany, Deja vu or Wake up often
The only perk that I see that's meta in your list is Deja Vu.
Maybe Self Care if you're in Asian servers as I've heard, but eh.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820826#Comment_3820826
I am in camp "even though there are issues, don't nerf WoO", but just for being a little bit pendantic: if a perk receives a nerf, but its still wildly used afterwards, thats a good indicator that it WAS indeed too strong. Though it could also be that the perk just has no alternatives and even though its now nerfed, there just isn't any alternative. In the hypothetical case of WoO, it could very possibly fall into both.
I suppose you can make that argument, but with how Behavior has nerfed the stealth aspect - people will always gravitate towards chase and gen related perks.
That's why I'm saying that even if it was taken back to its previous form, I still wouldn't be surprised if it's in the top ten most used perks especially with aura reading being so prevalent and the importance of extending your chases.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
autodidact
I don’t understand why people say this perk is mid it saves so much time and completely counters anti healing builds. I had a game where someone was slugged and I picked him up in 2 seconds cause of this perk if I didn’t have it he would have died but he escaped
This perk is a diamond that nobody recognizes
Whats your build with Autodidact? I prefer We'll Make It or Botany for consistency.
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@Saiph said:
I'm convinced that a significant part of the survivor playerbase actually has a BDSM / submission fetish and enjoy survivor as it is now.
Compared to other games, DBD has a very obvious over-representation in submissive player names like "Choke me Daddy" or "Myers' Wife" (to stay polite). Pretty sure anybody has seen these names a few times. As killer, it's also quite frequent that my survivors do something suggestive, like moan tech, or crouch and show their *ss etc. At first I thought it is just funny (and I still think it is) also who am I to judge these people - but I'd say yea DBD has clearly disturbed some people's mental health.
Curious to see how common this has been to other killers or if it's me who's playing in a way that triggers these types of people more lol (I'm usually playing meme builds, nodding etc.)
Hey now, calling me out for preferring to play survivor and saying it's BDSM. 😂 I enjoy playing survivor, but I like to have the challenge so I guess I BDSM myself into solo-queue. 🤷🏾♀️😭
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820870#Comment_3820870
Sometimes we are irrational and our opinions should be discarded. The best examples I can think of are release CoH, Boil Over and the RPD Library.
I know multiple people who argue to this day still that they should add thr Library back to RPD and should be able to run up there with no Hooks up there and bless the totem there with old unlimited super self care. That was how many years ago now?
We all know none of that can ever come back. Obviously WoO is nothing like any of that, but many people who play this game play only one side.
I don't think I'm expressing what I want to say properly enough that's not just interpreted as a long winded "mad cuz bad" so I hope you get the gist.
I think with a game of this size, it's pretty common to have people who prefer to play one side over the other. I agree with what you've said, such as the old part of library being placed in the game, along with the old versions of CoH and Boil Over.
I think the problem with the community is always about nerf this, thing gets nerfed, and then another thing needs to be nerfed. It's always something needs to be nerfed, nerfed, nerfed.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818702#Comment_3818702
Name one. Which one is straight-up not usable anymore?
Even though I agree that Made For This needed to be nerfed, you could use that as a prime example of a perk that's been straight up not usable unless you pair it with Off The Record and/or Dead Hard.
The perk largely depends on the killer you go against Deathslinger/Legion or you being tunneled making it pretty niche.
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@OmegaXII said:
Personally I feel it’s way too cheap. Just run to the Yellow, and anyone can be a decent looper.
I say this because I’m a very terrible Survivor, but the moment I use this perk, I become way better than I should be, and very few Killers can actually catch me.Yes it’s a big crutch for bad survivors.
You become better with the perk because you haven't memorized where pallets and windows spawn.
Of course, a person will perform better if you have a perk that tells you to run to safety to avoid being in a dead zone. Behavior wants the game to be more chase oriented, so they nerfed stealth gameplay.
Now people want to nerf WOO, once Distortion was nerfed. Survivors need some type of playstyle to have whether it's stealth, chase, or gen progression. Just because you play better and are good at looping the killer when you throw it on doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. I hardly if ever use the perk and I can loop the killer because I've taken the time to learn where pallets and windows are. All the perk does is give information to solo-queue and uncoordinated SWFs.
When I play SWF, my team can tell me where a pallet was dropped so that I know that beforehand. A solo-queue player doesn't know that and will often run to a dead zone and die because there's no way for them to know that the pallet was used unless they run WOO or Any Means Necessary.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
This community needs a scapegoat to thrust their problems unto and WoO is perfect to blame. Everything is WoOs fault
This is part of the live service conundrum...do you cater to those who yellreally loud or ignore it as heat of the moment rambling?
It makes me wonder what's next on the chopping block once WOO gets nerfed.
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As a person who hardly uses WOO, it's hardly a problem.
Most people that I see run WOO are solo-queue or maybe a less coordinated SWF team. Like others have said WOO normally helps people learn tiles and maps (I've actively told newer people I play with to get Kate Denson to learn the RNG of pallets and jungle gyms).
Most SWF can call out where they drop a pallet, especially if they know clock callouts. Therefore, a WOO nerf would only hurt solo-queue and uncoordinated SWF, while doing nothing for coordinated SWF.
Other players are solo-queue to see where a pallet was dropped to avoid going into a dead zone.
Even if you go back to the previous iteration, I would predict people would still use it as it provides utility to keep a chase going especially with how stealth has been obliterated due to excessive use of aura reading in the game.
If you think a survivor is running WOO and you can normally tell, the best thing for you to do is to drop chase and find someone else out of position instead of continually chasing someone going from one pallet to another.
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I see Hillbilly quite often in my games. 😂 Him, Huntress, and Spirit are all killers I see a lot of the time. Sprinkle a little Oni and Nurse in the mix there too.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802035#Comment_3802035
And thats a biggest question why? How this weak killer has huge killrate and became solo crusher. Hes passive slowdown one of the most easiest to avoid (if he doesnt have iri box addon) and his m2 anti loop much weaker version of Doctor.
I have seen some Pinheads utilize Hex: Plaything, Hex: Pentimento, Pain Res, and whatever fourth perk you can think of which can give Pinhead a lot of general slowdown for the game.
I think the main issue most of the time is that people don't necessarily go for the box until last minute. Some survivors simply run to the box, attempt to solve it, and immediately get canceled out especially if a Pinhead can interrupt it.
Obviously, learning to do the box while he's in chase, picking up a survivor, solving the box under a pallet, or even solving the box with an exhaustion perk handy. Most solo-queue players still have these issues with how oppressive he can be depending on the build of the Pinhead in question. I'd argue that he's quite strong against people who generally do not know how to counter him, which what I just suggested but if going against a competent team, he might struggle a bit more.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801734#Comment_3801734
On the one hand, yes, but on the other, I don't trust this community with anything more than a quickchat wheel of prewritten responses. Voice chat would be fun for exactly five minutes until it became a parade of slurs and screaming adolescents and people blowing into their mic and hearing people's background music echo three times into a bad mic for the entire game. BHVR is already poor at in-game moderation and they're not ready to handle this.
And yeah, to the OP, the problem is that most SWFs are casual friend groups that don't play noticeably better than solos, so any flat nerfs to SWFs punishes a healthy group of players before it hurts the 4stacks with jacked items and complementary perks who actually need the nerf. It's better to try and elevate solo queue to the level of information SWF gets for free, and then balance the game around that. They've already boosted solo quite a ways in this direction, though there's still plenty of room for improvement.
Yes, even implementing in-game voice chat would obliterate Trapper (I love playing Trapper) and Hag as well.
I don't think there's necessarily a way to combat SWF strength and just because people are playing in a SWF, it doesn't mean that they're highly coordinated people playing survivor.
I've seen people talk about like, making gens go slower depending on the amount of SWF in a lobby but that would just affect the unlucky random. Even then, if you add a penalty on the SWF to do gens slower, it would probably force people to just not play the game as much. I don't think punishing SWF is an option as many people like to play with their friends. Put simply, adding in-game wheels and putting the anti-camp meter would go wonders.
I know the devs talked against allowing survivors to see each others perks, but we have so much space to utilize when we pause the game and they can literally be there on the fly to help survivors know not to do certain things - such as unhooking a Deliverance player.
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797575#Comment_3797575
The old version was great for Clown, in fact that one Clown main is gonna have to rewrite his guide lmao
All 130 pages, twas a bad day for Arinad.
Old Zanshin sounded really good on Clown, this change is a bit more niche for Arinad's Clown build.
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@Jay1283 said:
this game is getting unplayable if you want a fair match.
Killers down second to last and then leave them down to hunt you down and then kill everyone or of they cant find you they go back before downed survivor bleeds out and then that survivor sells you out to killer by running straight up to you. What happened to a fair game over oeoples massive need to win at all costs these days? Back to one player games offline when gaming was enjoyable!
I agree with the other posters even if it's considered boring.
The smartest play is to avoid the downed survivor (I feel bad tbh when it happens) and just attempt to find hatch when they die.
If you can't find hatch, you can work on the exit gates (stop at C), wait for the killer to go away, and then continue and hope you get the door open.
There's counterplay as many other posters have mentioned here.
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Haha, I met a girl yesterday who proactively tries to pet the doggy in wolf form and each time just is her getting downed. She did it every time we went against a Drac in the game mode, but I'm glad you're finding the small wins for sure.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798404#Comment_3798404
It's funny for Sadako specifically because the tape is a limited item and so are the candles so they can't carry both at the same time >:D
I got two condemn kills at zero hooks the first Onryo match I played.
Oooh, that's super nasty. 😂 I didn't even think of the tapes and the candelabra not being held at the same time.
Because killers have been monitoring their gens, I kinda just drop my candalabra near a gen I'm working on to keep tabs on what gen I was working on in case I get chased off of it, but I haven't really enjoyed the gamemode. I guess I do enjoy the thrill of constantly being on edge and excessively looking around to prevent being grabbed off a gen, but everything else nah.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797669#Comment_3797669
Same. It's a massacre every match I've played. I have no idea how people are finding this survivor sided.
Super easy especially with Onryo.
Onryo can literally proxy her gens and teleport to nearby gens, doing a hit and run strat. I've went against one Onryo and multiple Bubba's and it takes a lot of coordination to complete it as it's super easy to go through your gens one by one by preventing generator progress speed.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801704#Comment_3801704
I don't understand the first section. I currently do nothing and get bledout often by powertripping Killers, so that wouldn't be new, it is the current normal, hence my claim 'horrible state of the game'. I played a match with an AFK from the start, and the Killer bled all 3 playing Survivors out just because they could. A BMing Killer would have to hover over the body of your hypothetical, giving free gen progress. If the Killer is giving free gen progress, then the Survivor has no reason to surrender. Even then, the surrender would turn the Survivor into a bot, and simply not yield a DC penalty and give you earned BP up to that point. So the BMing Killer would still have to camp the slugged bot, it just wouldn't penalize someone for an ended match being drawn out artificially.
The Basekit NOED suggestion assumes players have a brain being used. To be fair, that is the greatest flaw about it. They wouldn't cleanse at 5 gens to prevent it, because of the high probability of Killers getting a kill regardless. Thus Penti wouldn't be a threat unless you had griefing teammates, and we already have griefing teammates single-handedly losing the game from their comical stupidity. It may add a new avenue for trolls, but not a greater chance of people being trolls IMO.
Yeah sure, people's MMR adjusts. But the thing is, if I have MMR from across all types of Killers, then Spirit is an instaloss for me due to my hearing damage, MMR isn't properly tracking placements. This would provide a soft mechanism to more accurately track Survivor's MMR against each Killer (by the ban list influencing their groupings), in addition to each player's unique Killer MMR. It would provide greater match quality over time. If I had bans, Nurse/Spirit/Plague/Oni would be my (near) permabans, and the others would be 'previous Killer' bans, or if I played against too many X Killer recently then I'd ban X with my remaining slots. That partly is my point, is that people have different preferences, and when their preferences are met more, they have a better time. It isn't high enough that someone can choose to say, only go against Stealth Killers with anti-stealth perks, or only go against Ranged Killers with map offerings against them, so they still are 'fed their vegetables' with the hypothetical 40 roster of 32 possible Killers and 8 banned ones.
An easier way for Survivors to give up isn't forcing more deaths, its allowing the human to escape 4 minute bleedouts. I gave multiple scenarios, and we could require 2/3 of those conditions to come true before allowing it (or come up with new ones), but for whatever reason you are falsely assuming only 1 condition could ever be used, without giving any thought to the other ones (or alternative ones). There isn't more gen regression, except totem slowdown when stomping a babyKiller (which would be the only time you would/should cleanse). It wouldn't gut the power of the highest strength Killers, as other games don't simply delete the banned characters, they adjust them to be fun if unfun, or fair if unfair. Plus if a Killer was gutted because of this, that is so obvious that they were a problem to begin with (given that they had a likely 95%+ ban rate across all groups), that the point against bans becomes nullified. Anyone playing a match against a would be 'gutted' Killer is being ragequit anyways. Plus, once again, half or more than half of players don't even use optional systems like a ban list. Skill expression isn't removed, learning is still required for 80% of the roster minimum, and nothing about this forces more gens.
I also have went against killers, especially ones who utilize Knock Out (I can recall a Skull Merchant game off the top of my head who used the perk). Like I mentioned prior, I wouldn't be opposed to a surrender feature if all four survivors were slugged on the ground. However, I disagree with the notion that because a tunneled survivor has been killed that we can implement a surrender button for the second survivor that's downed. You would be surprised on the levels that a survivor would surrender and this type of surrender, quite frankly, sounds like an easy way to avoid the DC penalty. Again, I reiterate it's fine to implement when the killer is causing a 4 man bleed-out slug, but there are always ways to come back as I've mentioned in my Artist game. Additionally, like I said - the Artist would not have needed to hook me in that situation. It gives more power to the killer to decide to leave survivors on the floor to force a survivor to surrender. We have people who literally load into a match and DC because it's a Skull Merchant... Giving survivors the option to simply tab out of a game because of their first down after a tunnel would result in people choosing to leave out of frustration and cause a bot to take their place as you put it. I don't want to play with bots just because the Claudette didn't want to wait on the ground for me to go pick her up, at that rate I'd rather just go SWF because at least the team would be competent enough to NOT surrender.
How is it considered griefing to cleanse the totems if there's basekit NOED and a potential synergy with Pentimento? Like you said - doing these totems would be a priority that survivors need to think about when loading into a match. Totems are considered an optional objective unless absolutely necessary to cleanse them, such as a Devour Hope or even Face The Darkness (if against an Onyro or Pig). Requiring solo-queue survivors to go hunt down that pesky basekit NOED is a waste of time and if you want NOED, run NOED — it's that simple. Like you mentioned, this compacted slowdown would equal up to a sixth gen and this is not even touching the surface of how absolutely broken this would be on killers for them to be given pity kills in order to secure some tangible kill that could compound into even more kills, especially against a less coordinated solo-queue team.
I can understand accessibility issues regarding Spirit, sure. But as I've mentioned, this would directly affect killer queue times. We already see that quite evidentally on the forums that people complain about killer queue times, yet you want to put in another feature that can quite drastically affect queue times and cause people to actively give up playing their main to play a less Meta driven killer that they've invested thousands of hours into playing. You mentioned earlier that these killers who have less playtime could reflect how broken these killers are, but I completely disagree and it's moreso the onus on the survivor to learn to adapt against the killer that they were matched with. Even when I have terrible games, I still look at these games as a learning experience and see the positives of what's happening in the game. I have never in my life of this game dced because of me spawning in and seeing a killer or actively chosen to kill myself on hook just because I was found first. I simply play out the game and if for some reason I get into a situation where there's three gens up and myself and a rando are the only people alive, I will actively give myself up and allow the random a hatch chance and go next unlike other survivors who feel obligated to pick and choose who they want to avoid.
I genuinely don't understand the problem with Nurse unless you're actively going against a full aura reading Nurse, lol. I've had my fair share of matches against a Nurse and it's quite simple, at least from my experience to learn counterplay and for a person to be like — nope, not going against that indicates a lack of wanting to learn how to play against her, rather than the killer itself. I've went against speedrunning Nurses, if I die, I die - I still learned valuable information from playing against a highly skilled Nurse.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801365#Comment_3801365
The problem is we have to choose some scenario, or we get the current horrible state of the game. I think a kill is enough for the remaining Survivors to know if they want to continue the match or not. I mean, who is going to use this at 1 gen remaining? They would only use it at 5 gens remaining or similar 0-hope scenarios. Like your example, the game saboteurs will Kobe on hook in winnable games anyways, so what does it matter if they surrender as a bleedout after someone is already dead? At least waiting for someone to die (before allowing surrenders) is less abusable than the current climate.
The Survivors have the choice of pre-cleansing (aka effectively doing a 6th gen) if they are that far ahead. By that time, the Killer would have time to get enough hooks to feel like they actually played the game. Otherwise you can risk it assuming a random will die before (or to the NOED), in which case it is mostly a punishment for greed. I gave the basekit babyNOED as an example of a negative Killer extreme I also wish addressed, but most Survivor negative extremes are far more common and worse IMO. I think removing the anti-facecamp and anti-tunnel perks in endgame is also granting Killers free 'pity-kills' so I don't see anything different being introduced with a basekit babyNOED.
The sweatiest of Survivors want to face those Nurses and Blights though (to showcase their skill/game mastery), so I would see them more often banning simplistic or boring M1 Killers. Also, again, half the playerbase doesn't even use optional features, so the queue times would be minimally impacted. I feel the problem is largely self-correcting overall. If a Killer is literally banned by all skill levels and regions, then clearly the Killer itself is the problem with the game. Leaving it to fester and corrupt the player's enjoyment is far more detrimental for the game health than allowing people to become frustrated and sabotage matches or ragequit as a pure consequence of that Killer.
What horrible state is the game already in? I've been in a game where I was in a 2-3 minute chase with a Hillbilly where my teammates "gen-rushed" and I got hooked in the three gen as my teammates continued to crank out gens on the same side of the map. It's normal to have a couple gens pop during your first chase as survivors are strong as the game starts and their strength dissipates as the game continues forward as killer has LESS gens to monitor. In the same game of the Artist, the Sable died at 4 gens. She proceeded to kill herself on hook for absolutely no reason at all... I started my chase off where I popped the gen in front of the Artist's face injured while Sprint Bursting to a nearby jungle gym, while my teammates did two gens during my chase as a whole. If your changes were implemented, the Artist would dead ass keep me slugged and continually down me over and over again until I eventually bled out. 💀 Instead my chase, ALONG with my other teammates allowed 2 people to escape instead of the 4k that it could have been had my chase not have lasted that long. Killer would absolutely have zero incentive to pick up the second survivor they downed with your surrender ideas and instead buff killer as a whole.
Basekit NOED would be even worse as it would involve survivors (solo-queue as most people play this section of the game) having to generally waste time on dulls while strengthening the idea of a tunneled out survivor. Even if a survivor isn't tunneled out, imagine a killer bringing Hex: Pentimento??? That's 10 totems in general that a survivor would have to cleanse not only to avoid basekit NOED, 6+ gens, and Pentimento stacks. I hope you're prepared to see the death of Hex builds given that undoubtably Counterforce and Small Game would be perks that survivors run to combat this oppressive build that would ultimately result from your ideas.
I go against high tier killers, sure. You might consider me a sweaty survivor if you saw my chase gameplay, but my dedication to improve came from LEARNING counterplay to the killers that I go against. Each killer has similar counterplay to one another, so allowing survivors to outright ban killers like Nurse, Blight, and Hillbilly (all who have the same counterplay of simply breaking line of sight and not finding themselves zoned out) or banning Huntress, Trickster, and Deathslinger who share the same sentiment of crouching and avoiding being hit by their powers. If survivors cannot adapt to the killers that they face, their MMR will be adjusted accordingly just like my MMR is adjusted rightfully so as I typically can hold my own in a chase.
Your ideas would fundamentally and outright destroy Dead By Daylight in the simplest terms. Not only are you advocating for an easier way for survivors to give up (easier 4k), more gen regression when generators already have ten seconds more added to them, and outright gutting top tier killers because some people want to use this option to earn easier games — the removal of skill expression, people LEARNING, and making Dead By Daylight even more of a generator simulator for survivor as is.
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Hell, I don't even think I could think of a number of killers that I would choose to ban if I had the option to.
I don't like going against Wesker (buggy hits) or Huntress (her ability to hold her hatchet and prevent hook stages) but I still wouldn't choose to ban these killers. I've had great chases with both of these people and even though I don't care to go against them, I still attempt to learn counterplay for them. Even with Skull Merchant, I don't even mind going against her even though I genuinely hate her stealth mechanic. I truly believe that survivors need to learn counterplay for specific characters that they hate going against rather than some complete shut-off ban towards all these killers.
I went against a slugging Twins the other day and even though, again I don't care for this playstyle... It was a neck and neck game throughout. With your proposed changes, it would make survivor skill-level be a net negative as people would avoid specific killers rather than learning how to actually deal with them.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800610#Comment_3800610
I think people are already Kobing on hook so this wouldn't add a new avenue for game sabotage that doesn't already exist. Also, it would likely be locked behind conditions like 1m+ on the floor, or max recovery, or at least 1 Surv is also dead. I think 1m+ on the floor (total) would be enough that it wouldn't be abused at a greater rate than current Kobes are.
(Link provided for clarity, any readers don't res the dead thread there)
My full basekit NOED idea was a lesser NOED, such that you only get the Exposed, and you only get Exposed as long as no one is dead/dying. Hooks count as dying, so they aren't exposed once you get your down or your hook. Then if the Killer facecamps and the person gets unhooked, the exposed returns, so the onus is on the Survivors to either cleanse, or buy time with a trade for a cleanse. 'Lesser' was the word carrying the heavy lifting here that I didn't fully explain, so I can understand the rest of the theoretical/taking issue with the idea.
Killer bans I start with 1 slot per 5 Killers released (round down), so at 39 Killers you get 7, and at 40 you get 8. I also suggest 'previous Killer' for any number of the slots (with the default option being 1 previous Killer, and the rest are blank). For SWF, the leader determines everyone's ban list, and for solo it would function as normal.
As far as MMR being impacted, I think we all would agree that if everyone brought a BNP every match, their MMR would be impacted, but they currently can still do so. Same with a Syringe. Same with a Killer player being carried by a strong Killer choice, and not their skill itself. In a sense, we already have this Survivor facing specific Killer MMR problem, because we don't have Survivor MMR against each Killer. For example I might suck against Plague, but am a juice-lord against Oni or Chucky. Alternatively I could be garbage against Wraith specifically, but have no problems against all the better Killers than him. This would provide more accurate MMR for people using consistent ban lists.
As far as queue times, as I've said, less than half of people use optional features, so they would be minimally affected. That being said, it would still impact them. To counteract this I'd suggest a 50% and 25% BP bonus for the 5 and 10 least banned Killers respectively. This would also use the previous Killer ban list, so that Killer players can know which were played too often also. If one Killer is permabanned, that shows an obvious design flaw that the Killer is so garbage to play against, that no one wants to deal with them. These are the matches where we currently get (even normal, not only babyragequit) people DCing on first sight of the Killer. Since that was a dead match from the start, it prevents a dead match from ever occurring. I don't know about you, but waiting 5 minutes just to have a teammate DC because it is a Skull Merchant means I now have to wait another 5 minutes for a 'real' match, but I also have to wait for her to actually kill us too, adding who knows how much longer to my 'true queue' time.
Yeah, I don't agree with the whole one survivor dead to allow a survivor to do the whole surrender mechanic. If anything, it would probably be best to do that in situations where a killer actively chooses to bleed out all survivors — this is what most people complain about and being left on the ground for four straight minutes. With your change, if a survivor dies early on due to a tunnel (common for my games), you'll have another survivor left on the ground as the killer knows of this strategy... This would allow again, unsavory tactics as now the person that's on the ground would feel the game is a complete loss and give up rather quickly. In my game against the Artist the other day (the one minute and 42 second chase I had) my Sable teammate proceeded to kill herself on hook. We had three gens left, my chase allowed two gens to pop causing one single gen left over. People will kobe regardless of the outcome and implementing a change that further gives the killer more power to do these tactics only rewards the killer more.
So, in your proposed NOED change — survivors would then have to go around cleansing dull totems to actively avoid it being procced? So, waste even more time to hunt down five totems to prevent a basekit NOED? You can further expand on the idea, but in my games -- I have more killers tunneling out my teammates at 4-5 gens than I have where a killer simply gets 0 kills at the end game. Rewarding killers simply for going to the end game with zero kills would be giving out pity kills, in my opinion. This situation is beyond niche and causing even more downtime where solo-queue survivors already have less downtime would shift the balance towards killer in the end game stage.
On the whole banning killers issue, banning based off a number that high would definitely impact killer queues. Even on the situation, players can actively avoid a Nurse, Blight, Hillbilly, or any killer that can potentially create a snowball. This only impacts the killer queue times for these specific characters that thrive on snowball potential and their high mobility. I don't think allowing survivors to handpick their opponents is the way to go and the survivor in question would never actively improve when going against the killers that they choose to ban.
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@CLHL said:
Because it is. Just watch any 1v1 tournament and see how they can hold the killer in chase for a minute and a half on average. And no, it's not because they predrop every pallet on the map, you'll be surprised by how long they can loop combining a few structures.
You really can't compare random games to a 1v1 tournament style level of match. 😂
These people actively make it their jobs to proactively get better by having other skilled players to verse in a private match. These people more than often (I'll use Doc as an example from Elysium) even with his high leveled form of play, he also utilizes a red filter to allow him to see the killer's red stain which helps him loop for longer and not fall for mindgames as easily. These people also play in stacked lobbies where they play SWF and I believe they hardly if ever play solo-queue by themselves.
I had an almost 2 minute chase against an Artist the other day, does this mean that all survivors can pull off chaining multiple loops in succession easily? It all depends on the killer in question. Does the killer have counterplay to being looped? Does the killer have the ability to zone the survivor successfully? I do not consider myself to be a DBD comp player and we should not compare high level gameplay to regular queue times of a match. 💀
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@Attckcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799969#Comment_3799969
I mean if you're booning after the gen is done then you're not getting the Shadowstep benefit while you're on it. And yeah, aura spam Nurse is exactly why perks like Distortion and Shadowstep are necessary in the first place.
I actively put Circle of Healing on with Shadowstep attached. It's good to boon areas that the killer won't actively patrol as the killer more than likely won't go to edge map if the gen was already popped there.
It allows an area where a survivor can freely run into the boon radius to get the effects that you need and keeps the boon standing as long as possible rather than putting the boon in easily accessible areas where a gen is being worked on.
In the example I gave, I believe there was no gens that even popped and the killer just used her aura reading to find a survivor one after another and she couldn't find me as I was in the boon radius itself.
It all depends on how the game is going, but in that situation - I didn't do a gen and then boon given that she would find people with Lethal, BBQ, Nowhere To Hide, and an another aura read perk (probably Darkness Revealed) I can't remember as it was a while ago. Boons can be helpful if you know when to put them up and not excessively rely on wasting time setting it up.
In the example I gave doing gens was pretty fruitless as a full aura reading Nurse can be quite punishing on solo-queue by practically giving the nurse permanent wallhacking.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800277#Comment_3800277
Optional features have sub-50% usage rates. When people were offered 50k BP a match (for 10 matches) for the wiggle skillchecks, they said it was somewhere from 40-50% usage IIRC. So even if we were worried about say, Nurses with a theoretical 100% ban rate, there are still 50% of the playerbase not even using the feature, so they'll still get lobbies. Also like you said, you dislike Wesker and still wouldn't ban him.
As far as the DC rates, negative extremes seems to be the primary driver. I keep advocating for things to get rid of negative extremes, like this Killer ban idea, map ban idea for Killers (so no Autohaven on Ghosty or indoor map on Huntress), surrender feature to replace a bleedout, or comeback mechanics (such as a lesser basekit NOED if 0 kills into endgame, or gen speed boosts on Survivor deaths). All of the negative extremes are what make normal people hate playing the game. I view the babyragequitters as an unfixable problem, but everyone else can be helped with these things I normally advocate for.
I do agree with you that you could implement a catch-up mechanic, especially if a survivor was tunneled out to put pressure on gens.
Some of the other changes would have to be tested, such as the surrender to bleed out option to prevent people from simply running into the killer and forcing a surrender to find an ez way to avoid a DC penalty. I don't think I would agree with a basekit NOED at the end game though. I do sympathize with people who go into end game with no kills, but at the same time I don't think adding basekit perks into a game to make the game easier for another side because they were unable to get a kill.
I can use myself as an example — I struggle with Deathslinger and that's a skill issue on my part. I don't like how slow his ADS is and it's something that people need to master to get better with him. With your proposed change, I could find a survivor out of position, basekit NOED them, hook them far away from the exit gates, and facecamp them. There is no counterplay to this at all, which is the issue. If someone attempts to trade, I can NOED them as they're touching her. If she somehow gets off the hook, I can use my harpoon gun to catch people, doesn't even have to be the survivor in question — and basekit NOED them doing the same thing. Just because I've had a game where I struggled with kills as Deathslinger, doesn't mean that I want kills handed to me and it wouldn't help me improve at getting better with the killer if I can pull off unsavory tactics like I've mentioned. The survivors have no counterplay to getting this survivor off of hook, someone comes to the rescue I can basekit NOED the person saving, while still preventing the trade as she's so far away from the exit gates causing my 0k to become multiple kills at that rate. Additionally, I could even apply more pressure by actively choosing to slug the survivors in this situation as well.
A killer ban would be harder to implement — in my case, let's say I ban Wesker from my games. Do I get other killers that I can also ban? Do I get three options? Even if it was implemented, my choices could affect my MMR rating and affect queue times, we need to take this in consideration as well.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795995#Comment_3795995
Yeah they can happen for Killer also, but I've probably seen 10x Survivor to Killer DCs in the entire time of me playing the game.
The worst of experiences is what I seek to address, that's why I suggest map bans for Killers alongside Killer bans for Survivors. That loading into a open map as a Stealth Killer, or lockerless map as a locker Killer, or indoor map as a Ranged Killer, is such a buzzkill. Its just Survivor has more negative extremes than Killer in general. (Exit Gate timewaste takes 2m max, Bleedout timewaste takes 4m max, the things I've already mentioned, and more.)
I spend most of my time on the forums now worrying about these negative extremes, since I've had 2/4 IRL friends hard quit the game now because of it. The others only soft quit, as one only plays during events, if that, or the other only plays Killer now.
I don't think killer bans is healthy for the game though. Trust me, I have my fair share of not enjoying going against killers (I personally do not like Wesker due to how buggy his hits are) but if given the option I would not toggle to not vs him. Even though I don't particularly like him, I still find him fun in some ways when I pull off nice loops against him as he does in fact have counterplay. Not to mention, adding killer bans will make queue times go up higher and then you'll have people who (rightfully so) complain that they can't find a match because of the killer that they're playing. Many people hate Twins for example, I couldn't imagine what a load time for them would be if we allowed killer bans.
The reason you see more survivor DCs over killer DCs is due to the fact that yes, survivors do find the gameplay dynamic not as fun as they used to. You also have more people who play survivor - it's four survivors in one game versus killer. I've had my fair share of having a killer DC for a play that I've made whether it's a a loop that went on too long or popping a gen in the face of the killer. Killers do in fact DC but when there's a lot of pressure in the beginning of the game, you oftentimes see survivors DC out of frustration and wanting to "go next".
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@GannTM said:
Bro I bought the whole chapter and love Thalita so I don’t need a refund lol.
At least someone found a silver lining.
OP, I agree with you that Skull Merchant didn't need the nerfs that was warranted to her character. I've played her a handful of times and even if I have gripes with her as a survivor — she didn't need all of the nerfs that she needed tacked onto the character. Hopefully in 2025, she can get the rework that she deserves and doesn't become a walking hated meme like she is now.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800016#Comment_3800016
I actually think the consistency is the problem, personally. Something being far too consistent will always be an issue, like old 3 gens with Eruption. It was too easy for some survivors to simply hide with Distortion and let their team die for it.
That said, my suggestion to hide aura reads by other means with perks that counter specific aura reads, or at least a decent amount. We can also shift Distortion to 2 stacks every chase or hook to fill in any smaller outliers, since it does counter stuff like NTH and Floods of Rage pretty naturally.
Also thank you, I tend to try very unorthodox builds on my Sadako. Though the DMS nerf is going to make things problematic for my build, but I will find a way around it.Yeah, I try to go out of my way to play off-meta builds for situations like perks fundamentally changing.
I have a similar build on my Trapper — Grim Embrace, Pop Goes The Weasel, Corrupt Intervention, and No Way Out. I've never actively played with Pain Res, as I know at some point it'll be nerfed again in some capacity due to it being used in top level play. From my build, Trapper gets all the slowdown he needs as it takes long for him to get started and it prevents him from being "gen-rushed" at the start.
On a more on-topic discussion, I don't think any aura blocking perk will get that much use as much as Distortion did - even now, it isn't in the top used perks but I suspect a rise in aura reading perks from this change and I'm trying to look at it in a more balanced viewpoint. Like I mentioned, I hope Behavior slows down on aura reading perks in the game as it continues pressure for survivors with no downtime to recover -- I think with less recovery time, we see people suiciding on hook and giving up after a certain amount of time which has nothing to do with Distortion from me playing solo-queue.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799993#Comment_3799993
Probably for the sake of variety. Again, while there can be lots of aura reading options, it does not mean all forms of aura read are being used that often.
On my own Sadako, I use gen blocking perks to locate where to go next. Stuff like DMS or Thrilling Tremors. And I often get matches where two survivors hide with Distortion instead of assisting their teams, forcing me to scour for 10 minutes going in and out of power using Distorted Photo to try and get them to scream after their friends are dead just so I can find them since I don't have aura read specifically for them and enough of it to burn through the stacks. Even if I don't use aura aside her Distorted Photo, I can recognize just because there's a lot of aura doesn't mean it's always going to be an issue if you can recognize what they run and adapt to it, much like how killer has to adapt to what survivors bring.I do think, however, more options for survivors are welcome for aura blocking as well instead of putting all our horses on Distortion just in general. Survivors should have options for perks they want to try and counter, just as killer should.
I just don't know how you can implement aura reading blocking as consistently as Distortion does. The reason why it was used so much was due to the fact that it tells you information about the perk that was used, your aura blocked, and allowed you to do risky behavior such as staying on a generator if BBQ and Chili for example. As I said in some other post, a fun build I had was the combo of Poised (people state how niche it is) and Distortion, both perks complemented one another as killers have gotten so used to not defending a generator if they don't see the aura pop up on a gen. It was a clean getaway and always catch killers off by surprise when a generator would pop and they think no one is there. This supposed change guts that niche build that I came up with on my own, which affects strategy and gameplay adaptability.
Again, there might be people who use the perk maliciously, sure (I've never seen it, but I won't discredit other people's experiences as survivor). However, hammering down on perks and making them a glory of its former self is exhausting to read over and over in patch notes repeatedly. There are many people, Otzdarva included that said that it should stay as a token system and recharge in chase -- that would have been a fine change, but Behavior likes to continuously make these perks so niche to the point that people no longer use these perks, it's actually a disgrace as someone who likes to use different builds and enjoys the element of finding little perk combos that go well together.
On a side note, that is a nice combo for Onryo especially for her needing of information tracking and teleporting.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799986#Comment_3799986
That's why I also suggested this:
We shouldn't try to hang onto Distortion in it's current form, allowing for games to be held hostage in exchange for these defenses. While I do think most aura reads have tells and ways to work around them, I also think survivors should have more reasonable choices too, aside Distortion.
I agree, but what type of changes would you create for other perks that provide your aura being red? The proposed changes I mentioned like making it so that it's tied to in game mechanics like doing generators is by itself not holding the game hostage, yet another player stated this perceived change would cause less interaction with the killer.
Put simply, there's too much aura reading in the game. I have no idea why we need this much when we simply have tell-tale signs of crows moving to know that a survivor was just there. Additionally, they've made locating survivor scratch marks more discernible as well. Even when Distortion was in the top ten perks - I played Onryo with Spies from the Shadow and I would consistently 4k and I had no aura reading and could easily find survivors simply by spawning to the TVs near my gens or even outright ignoring gens that were not worthy of being defended (they're not my three gens). Killers have so many tools that they could easily utilize, yet when a perk that blocks the extreme amounts of aura reading (this primarily became a conversation at the forefront when Friends Til The End was created) and people couldn't get value from it.
I've also been accused of cheating as well as killer, but that doesn't change my stance on why we need so much aura reading to help a killer — who already has so many advantages and an easier chance to find survivors and keeping pressure on throughout the duration of the game.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799967#Comment_3799967
That's how this is being portrayed though, as if killers are bringing so much aura read there's no way to have a moment without being seen without Distortion. Not saying that's you saying it at all, but that's one talking points I see a lot.
Once you understand and notice which perks the killer has, you can easily work around it.
NTH? Pre-run to a loop instead, or keep your distance to see if the killer approaches despite you hiding, as well as Distortion telling you even post change. Lethal? Distortion will still let you know. Weave tells you when you're effected by it, etc etc.I think it's pretty common in most games to see two aura reading perks and two gen regressing perks.
A noticeable build you see a lot of the time in top level play is Lethal Pursuer, BBQ and Chili, Pain Resonance, and Pop Goes The Weasel.
It doesn't change how oppressive it is and you can easily swap out an aura perk for another — you could do Pop and Nowhere To Hide as it synergizes well. Regardless, as Firellius claimed there is a powercreep when it comes to the amount of aura reading in the game. It's not necessarily the limited amount of that killers can bring, it's the fact that there are perks that can easily show your aura without any notification for it unlike Hex: Undying for example which notifies you when you pass a dull totem. There are too many aura perks that are tied to specific things that survivors do and it's getting too convoluted to know when, where, and how you were spotted when you're practically unaware that a killer is coming to your direction. There was counterplay with BBQ and Undying as you can guess where the killer is going, but there is no counterplay to the remainder of the stronger ones that Behavior has created — this also causes issues and overlaps with people who are cheating in the game as any little thing can cause aura reading, which is what cheaters do with their wallhacks (making it harder to discern who is cheating and who is not).
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@Attckcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799829#Comment_3799829
Boon perks are bad in general, because if you have 30 seconds to set up a boon somewhere, that's 30 seconds (plus travel time) you weren't doing gens, and the killer probably has already seen you by then. Multiply that by each time you set up your boon.
They're not bad if you're the type of person to hop on a gen and do a totem after the gen is done, especially if one is near the gen you were doing.
If you're actively going out of your way to try to find a totem at the beginning of the game, trying to bless it, and then hopping on a generator I'd argue that, yes that is time better well spent.
I remember playing against a full aura reading Nurse months ago with my build of Deja Vu, Circle of Healing, Shadowstep, and Sprint Burst and I was able to buy my fellow teammates time to do gens. Sadly, as you are aware Shadowstep is specific to a boon's radius and she was able to systematically aura read other survivors down while I was the last one alive with gens still remaining. However, I was able to get hatch due to her not being able to find me with what she practically had.
If I didn't have that build, it would have been an easy 4k for that Nurse.
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@Attckcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799776#Comment_3799776
Even with Distortion the easiest counter to FTTE is hiding in a locker when the survivor gets picked up. If the obsession ISN'T locker hopping when FTTE is in play that's basically throwing.
I'm aware of that and that's what I've been doing since Behavior announced that they were going to look into the perk. Not all people are familiar with the perk or even know of its existence until their aura is being red which still causes the snowball effect to occur.
I used to lurk the forums years ago and I would always see people say to think of the new killers that play this game when changes were done. In this situation, the perk gives a lot of utility to killers in its current state to cause the snowball to happen without Distortion helping. Killers are already strong enough with their visions of creating a 60% killrate, why punish survivors for a teammate being hooked? Why punish newer survivors playing the game by creating a perk that can singlehandly decimate a solo-queue team? Not everyone that plays this game reads or looks up every single perk like the people do in these forums, which I would argue are enthusiasts of the game. We have probably if I could guesstimate 200+ perks in this game, people do not have the time to study up on a game of this caliber like some exam to git gud.
There are many people who play this game casually and by allowing an oppressive perk that can cause a killer to bing bong between survivors with aura reading, screaming, and the exposed status is too much altogether.
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@LadyOwO said:
Everyone's just needs start running Boon:Shadow Step now in place of distortion
Right, maybe we'll see a return to form for Circle of Healing and Shadowstep. 💀😂
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799783#Comment_3799783
Despite what survivors think, killers can't get constant aura value even if they run full aura read builds
They don't need to, it's enough to the point where actually avoiding the killer is non-viable as a gameplay aspect.
One fond memory I have is playing on the Black Rose map against a Myers. I was doing the gen on the big steamliner, and had a good view of the area. Every time Myers came over, I would walk away from the gen, out of sight, and because I had Fixated/Self Aware, my action radius was bigger than he expected. Three times, he came up to that gen, kicked it, spent some time looking for me, and then leaving again, until he finally clocked on to the fact that I wasn't as close to the gen as he had expected and caught me.
If he had NTH, I would've lit up like a christmas tree.
And you can forget about using the misdirection perks that were buffed last patch if the killer brings in Predator, as that perk invalidates all of them.
The default state of the game has just shifted away from 'killers need to find survivors' to 'killers know where you are'. Doesn't matter whether it's through NTH, Weave Attunement or some other perk, but the excesses of aura reading being scattered about have made hiding a losing strategy now.
Compare to the old aura reading of BBQ & Chili, which added the strict stipulation that it didn't work on survivors that were close enough, meaning that while it gave the killer an indication of where you -were-, it never showed the killer where you -are-. That distinction is one that got removed with pretty much all the new aura reading perks, which do both. And that, in my book, is powercreep.
Maybe it would've been better if Distortion just enforced the BBQ & Chili rule and only activated if the survivor was within X meters of the killer.
Yes, that's the argument that is being presented. BBQ and Chili has counterplay without Distortion as you can simply hide in a locker. The amount of aura reading in the game makes it so that every single action a survivor does causes aura reading and sometimes there is genuinely no counterplay.
Back before all of this aura reading, survivors had downtime to do things. Nowadays, you have x perk allows aura reading which causes continuous chase after chase after chase. It's gotten to the point where we have survivor fatigue because no matter what it is —Behavior has killed chase gameplay (terrible map reworks, gen spread being easier to monitor, and 6.1.0 changes to chase) while killing stealth gameplay by allowing no counterplay to aura reading. Even one of the map variations of Ormond was murked given that by the construction vehicle, there is no pallet, and there is no lockers anymore which makes the survivor have to run to find a locker much harder if you're doing that generator specifically to counter BBQ and Chili — it's a hot ass mess. It would be nice to have changes to the dreadful gen spawns as well, maybe I can actually drop Deja Vu from my build by then. 😂
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@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799776#Comment_3799776
whats exhausting is having that teammate who hasn't been chased or hooked all match because they're just hide the instant the terror radius shows up while everyone is on deathhook.
take your share of the chases, stop forcing everyone else to carry you through the game.
And if we go down that route, I'll be happy to have the bloodlust and speed boost reduced reverted from 6.1.0. Many maps have been gutted to have unsafe pallets that are not mindgameable. 😊
On the contrary, I don't mind having the game be chase oriented but Behavior has not been consistent on what they want this game to be. If they want it to be chase oriented, they need to make more loops not just be a simple 50/50, let me go around this short end and hit the survivor as they're vaulting a pallet. I would love that because I like to have chase in the game, regardless aura reading needs to be looked at and what do you know? They create Zanshin Tactics which defeats the mindgame dynamic by allowing a killer to see where a survivor goes (their aura) when a dropped pallet is used during chase.
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@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799751#Comment_3799751
they already hide in lockers as well.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799748#Comment_3799748
if your doing it at the expense of your own team who are not using distortion, you're actively punishing them and that is why this perk needs this much needed healthy change. Do you understand yet? You will never improve your chase game if all you do is avoid avoid avoid.
I never understood the argument that when a Distortion player loads into the game that they're harming the rest of the team by not being found with Lethal Pursuer. If the perk was so strong, why didn't other people put the perk on as well? If people complained that they're found first, why not use a perk that countered LP?
As I said many times, you can be a good looper and have Distortion on. I never understood the fascination of people who play killer and feel like they need no counterplay to survivors having their aura being red. This game is built around having counterplay to readily used perks in the game and punishing people for using the perk because (some people rat, rare situations) is not a good change. If anything, I'm hoping that after this nerf — Behavior will look at aura reading and the amounts of it that they've created in the game. It's exhausting having your aura being red constantly and having to be in chase, especially with how strong tunneling a survivor out at the beginning is.
I've seen killers (Otzdarva included) play with Friends Til The End and tunnel a survivor off of hook because they get no value out of a snowball and exposing of other survivors because the obsession was a Distortion user.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798849#Comment_3798849
perhaps its time to revert the 6.1.0 base chase changes at this rate, or at least some of them
I've always been an advocate of removing the chase boost changes, along with bloodlust buffs.
Everything else is fine, in my opinion.
Circle of Healing needed to be nerfed and still helps with team synergy. Medkits being identical to each other and only giving buffs for altruistic healing is okay, I suppose.... I usually use my medkit on others as a result. The kicking animation, gen repair time, and cooldown for a successful hit was a much needed QOL buff that killers needed as it took too long to break things and helps killers continue pressure in the game. The other two changes were unnecessary and I believe it's why people give up so easily since 6.1.0. Chases are shorter, yet Behavior wants to make the game chase oriented with abysmal loops. The amount of times I see unsafe pallets with short ends, lol.
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@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799464#Comment_3799464
i very much clearly stated in a previous post that I don't think they all do. I very clearly said the ones that do take chases etc aren't an issue and lets be honest this nerf won't effect them at all since they do take chases their perk will activate. New distortion is an anti aura chase perk for things that show aura during chase in which there are several, between perks like im all ears and the several addons like say huntresses glow hatchets.
its disingenuous of you to say that I think every distortion user is the problem when I've said multiple times its only the rat players that are the issue and it will only be the rat players who are really effected by this nerf.
You stated that your hatred for the perk comes from the game starting at a 3v1. I wonder why at the start you mentioned that it's a 3v1 and I have never in my life of playing this game seen a Distortion user actively do nothing but wait until all their teammates are dead just to get hatch.
How is the game actively progressing? Did the killer bring Lethal Pursuer, BBQ and Chili, Friends Til The End, Nowhere To Hide, or whatever other perk that can cause a snowball effect to occur? You're being disingenuous by claiming that there's some hidden cabal of Distortion users going around ruining games crouching in some corner with some evil plan of getting hatch each game. 💀
Distortion, whether you hated it or not kept aura perks in check — it made a killer think to themselves if they wanted to bring an aura perk or not. This change doesn't affect me directly as I proactively use different builds regardless so I'll adapt, but Behavior trying to make this game a chase game while gutting maps, their loops, chase potential AND stealth gameplay isn't the way to go.
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@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799418#Comment_3799418
that is absolutely not true. my haterd comes from the fact that it should be a 4 v 1 not a 3 v 1 on the start because player #4 decides they want to do nothing but wait for everyone to die so they can get the hatch. They never take chase, they don't make saves, they don't do gens they're completely useless.
now don't get me wrong I don't hate all distortion users. The distortion users who use the perk appropriately will not even be effected by the nerf at all. Using distortion to counter lethal pursuer is smart and I don't blame anyone for doing that. If you rock distortion and still take chases, do gens, make saves etc are not the problem here.
its the rats who this nerf is intended for and they will be the only distortion users effected by this nerf. They're useless and provide nothing, they're a waste of a player slot.
Why do you assume that every Distortion player doesn't take chase lol? I used to run Bond, Deja Vu, Distortion, and Sprint Burst on my Dwight back in the day and I would take chase for people off of hook even with Friends Til The End active where I'm obsession.
Even if I'll get hooked and it transfers to someone else, I would always try to take protection hits for someone I saw on death hook because that's what a player does if they want their best chance of not being steamrolled in a game of Dead By Daylight.
Yes, I've experienced people hiding when I'm actively in a chase near them but guess what? These same people don't help or take chase WITHOUT Distortion because it's solo-queue. If someone doesn't want to take chase, they don't need Distortion to outright prevent it. People will watch you be in chase and do nothing because they are randoms and will "rat" as you put it no matter what because put simply, randoms can be SELFISH.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799017#Comment_3799017
I love fogwise. Super underrated perk. Rewards hitting greats which feels good and helps you pre run vs strong chase killers.
Only issue with Fogwise is Mindbreaker, but surprisingly it's not used as often. I like to use Stake Out with Fast Track for my Yui. 😊
Stake Out and Fogwise sounds fun, I personally enjoy Alert and Troubleshooter together for more aura reading, especially if the killer brings Mindbreaker. 😅
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@MarylinMonhoe said:
Can they look at "This is not happening" ?
Yes, didn't they mention that they were going to look at the perk or did they just scrap the idea entirely?
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@[Deleted User] said:
I would just like to say that I downloaded this game 3 weeks ago and in all those 3 weeks I’ve only escaped 2 times on survivor. I’m not good at the game, I’m trying to be better but I also don’t have access to any of the other survivors. And when a game looks hopeless yes I kill myself on hook. I usually just get tunneled out anyway. I seriously try to loop and get better but not winning is taking a toll on me. I don’t even know if I want to continue playing this game. I just can’t win on survivor. And with every game that goes by I don’t feel myself getting better. I don’t know really how to loop and I go against these killers that are just so oppressive and on top of me. I just can’t compete. Is this normal for a new survivor to go through?
It takes time to get better at this game.
Everyone starts somewhere whether they're crouch walking with Urban Evasion and stop moving once they hear the terror radius.
If you would like, I don't mind playing with you to help you get better at the game but just know that this game has a huge learning curve to it. The amount of maps, RNG of pallet loops/jungle gyms, gen spread, and who the killer is all plays a role in the game. It will get better as you improve and play, but I've always told my friends that I don't think Dead By Daylight is a game that people can readily pick up and get better with from the get go.
In my personal opinion, I don't think you needed to make any killer or survivor level up to unlock those "perk slots" as it limits you in the beginning by only using one perk in this day and age.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799150#Comment_3799150
You're probably right that I shouldn't target UE. My issue with it is the number of people who crouch-walk everywhere. It's not necessarily UE but the overreliance on it when traveling across the entire map.
I used UE a lot when I was new, thinking it was the best perk in the game. I feel deep shame about those days lol. I wish I'd gotten a swift kick in the butt earlier to get me to not be reliant on UE for so much. But that's me. And I don't remember when or why I moved away from it.
I see, I guess because I like to use different builds — my favorite being Sprint Burst, Fixated, and Urban Evasion for a UE build I don't normally play like Urban Evasion users do.
I'm aware that people walk with Fixated only or UE only, but punishing build variety isn't the way to go.
Even if you reworked Fixated and UE, those same little nooby survivors will be even less efficient as they now crouch and walk slower. Trust me, I know it sucks being on a hook watching your random UE their way over to you, but this is a lack of experience problem! Not necessarily a perk problem and people do grow out of it (at least I hope so) the more that they play.
Thank you for expanding on what you meant originally. 😊
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799143#Comment_3799143
i'm just pointing at the faulty game design where selfish play is encouraged. dbd itself promotes it, i do not.
How often do you have games where you load into a match and no one is touching a generator or progressing the game? It seems unrealistic to rely on waiting for your teammates to die for hatch when the primary objective is completing generators.
If that was the case, we'd see Left Behind, Wake Up!, and Sole Survivor used more often.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798849#Comment_3798849
one perk shouldn't nullify all killer perks and add-ons
Which is true. It's not fair or healthy in the least.
Behavior needs to address aura reading and slow down on making them
What kinds of perks would you design for killers?
Survivors have gens, bones, chests/items, altruism, escape, and evading the killer. That gives the devs a lot of different things they can make perks for.
Killers have survivors. Chasing, downing, and killing survivors while trying to slow down survivor actions. There are gen perks, which slow down gen repair progress (and these are usually the most complained about perks). There are aura perks so killers can find survivors and get into chase with them. There are chase perks, which either make killers faster in a chase or partially nullify some of the defenses survivors have in a chase. Those are the main types. In terms of the small subsets, there are end game perks (niche and usually more for meme builds because they' translate to an empty perk slot for the majority of the match), carrying perks (again, more for meme builds, though Iron Grasp at times feels necessary on console), hook perks, exposure perks, and anti-healing perks. Again, the majority of those deal with damaging and slowing down survivor gameplay. Survivors don't really like going against the majority of them because they all interfere with basic survivor gameplay.
Aura perks are in many ways the least damaging type of perks in that they encourage interaction with the opposing side rather than simply slowing down or preventing survivor actions. Killers can find survivors and get into chase. That doesn't mean the survivor will go down. Even seeing auras mid-chase doesn't mean the survivor is getting hit: the survivor can't mind game while their aura is shown, but there are still obstacles in the killer's path.
Good survivors can and will lead the killer on long chases. If it also takes killers a long time to find survivors between chases, well 1. having zero interaction with anything is not fun, and while a killer is looking in lockers and behind rocks they are not interacting, it is absolutely boring, and 2. a long period of not finding survivors and then long chases is game over for the killer.
I used to mostly play killer, but for a long while now I've played a lot more survivor than killer. I get bored pretty quickly as killer searching for survivors, and if I can't find anyone after a number of minutes I just walk away and do something else. I loaded in for PvP, they loaded in for PvE, it's easier to let them have their PvE than to spend my valuable time forcing them to do something they don't want to do.
They could have simply kept it a token system and caused it to regenerate in chase as many people pointed out, but they'd outright murdered the perk when aura reading is so prevalent in the game.
This is what I thought BHVR would do, and I'm curious why they didn't. Is there something in their data that caused them to take away the tokens? Are they changing killer perks in some way in the future?
Back when Distortion just had 3 tokens, I used it a bunch as an info perk to learn what aura perks the killer was running and then act accordingly. It was the smart and resourceful way to use the perk and it actually felt like I was outplaying the killer. When BHVR added the ability to regain tokens, it became a lazy perk and there was nothing fun about that. Now they've ditched tokens entirely and only kept the regaining a use part. It's a strange direction for the perk. I enjoyed its original form back when it was released.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/426892/distortion
Just because I used Distortion doesn’t mean I didn’t do gens, help teams to get chased. There is a lot of times when I see a survivor getting bullied and tunneled by a killer that I throw myself in there to stop them.
That's you. That's not my solo queue experience. My Distortion-running teammates are usually playing for the hatch from the get-go, and if they get found they run at a teammate to get the killer off their back so they can return to hiding in a corner. I am so, so happy for this change. I know I won't stop getting teammates who refuse to participate, but this is at least one less tool in their arsenal to throw the match and get everyone else killed.
I hope next up is reducing crouch-walking speed on Urban Evasion and adding a gen-repair requirement to Left Behind. There's nothing like seeing someone escape with 8k Bloodpoints to know the match was a bust from the moment I loaded into the lobby.
Yes, because that's genuinely the only way out for survivor is to do gens. Generators is the main focus for survivors, whereas outright tunneling a survivor out of the game is the easiest way to do a 4k consistently.
Back in the day, survivors could generally waste time by cleansing dull totems and doing generic chest builds, but now that Behavior has reworked the game to be a 60% killrate — survivors can't afford to do anything other then generators as like I've mentioned, a viable strategy that killers do is to eliminate a target for less pressure on their gens.
I can get behind the Left Behind, but I don't understand why you're wanting to focus on Urban Evasion, which is considered by many as a noob friendly perk. Are you also wanting to take a look at Fixated as well? How about the haste perks for both survivor and killer? Can we not have perk variability in the game anymore?
Urban Evasion if utilized correctly (not crouching around excessively) counters killers like Hag, Huntress, Trickster, and Deathslinger yet you want to nerf said perk because it provides stealth?
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798828#Comment_3798828
At the end of the day, people need to do gens to escape
or they can wait until all their teammates die so they can get hatch.
So, promote the rat behavior that people complained about with Distortion and make it so that survivors inherently play more selfishly?
Idk man.
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@tparadise said:
The "1 perk that counters 500 perks and addons" arguments against Distortion never really made sense to me. Because when a killer brings a full aura build all your tokens get eaten up in a second anyway and your aura still gets revealed all game. Whether you hide or take chase all game you barely have time for all your tokens to regenerate before you lose them again. Especially with this new Weave + Franklins meta.
Also in the patch notes, the devs make it seem like aura reading is the only way to find survivors. What happened to gen patrolling, using scratch marks and blood pools, using your ears, or just plain old searching the map? Isn't that the point of this game? Why are the devs promoting using aura reading as a crutch? Yes, those perks and addons are useful but killers should not have to rely solely on them.
The point is that it would buy the survivor bringing Distortion time to do gens. When I ran Distortion a while ago, my favorite build combo was Distortion and Poised with Deja Vu. I would do the gens and once the gen popped, I would lose my scratch marks after completing the gen while breaking three gens that would happen. It was nice to run that build given how common BBQ and Chili was, which completely countered that combo. I was never a rat, I always helped survivors in chase by taking hits for them but I was also productive given that I was efficient in doing gens.
There is simply too much aura reading in the game as it stands now and I don't understand why we need an overabundance of them without a consistent way to hide the aura. With the right build, you could simply eat through the tokens like you've mentioned - but when they're eaten the way they are, it saves the person in question time to be productive and not worry about being interrupted. I'm glad I stopped using the perk once that they announced changes, just like they nuked Call of Brine ages ago.
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@MissClove said:
I’ve been playing dbd since release. (With breaks, of course) survivor main. I never really liked playing killer. Used to have more than a team full of friends to play with but over the years they quit playing due to how toxic the the community is and/or because of the hackers and perk changes.
Distortion Is a perk I mainly use because I solo most of the time if my boyfriend doesn’t play with me. I was already losing all my tokens because alot of killers have aura reading builds. This nerf will render it useless imo. Why do the killers have so many abilities to see us and take away the one we have to counter it? I think this decision is bad and will probably cause me to quit the game again. Not that anyone cares or the devs.Just because I used Distortion doesn’t mean I didn’t do gens, help teams to get chased. There is a lot of times when I see a survivor getting bullied and tunneled by a killer that I throw myself in there to stop them.
I’m really disappointed about this change. Hope I’m not the only one who feels this way.Some people will argue that one perk shouldn't nullify all killer perks and add-ons as killer is the power role.
But at the same time, Behavior needs to address aura reading and slow down on making them. With our current aura reading on add-ons and perks, it's quite easy to snowball a survivor especially with the bloodlust buffs and reduced speed boost a survivor already has. With these new changes, aura reading goes unchecked unless you run three perks:
Off The Record situational in regards to only working off hook.
Object of Obsession which always can make you a target because the killer always sees you. Sometimes I even see killers outright ignoring the OOO user as they can focus on other people as they will see the OOO user.
Shadowstep which is more limited and you have to be in a boon.
I don't see this as a good change for the future of solo-queue. They could have simply kept it a token system and caused it to regenerate in chase as many people pointed out, but they'd outright murdered the perk when aura reading is so prevalent in the game.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
I really don't know why they decided to remove the aura reading, there was nothing overpowered about it in the slightest, it only helped solo queue players and I'm really mad that they are removing it.
I was pretty happy with it now muting grunts of pain for as long as you are in the locker, while it stays with you for 30 seconds after leaving it, but removing the aura reading takes away an important part of the perk that some solo players (including myself) liked to use.
I made a post in the past on how I'd change the perk if you want to check it out:
Devs, if you are going to go through with the change, I really don't care if you nerf the 30 second duration to like 20 or 10, but PLEASE bring back the survivor and closest generator reveal, removing it is not a good idea!
Yes, Lucky Star didn't need its prior effects nerfed. I don't understand this whole - let's buff a perk but add a major downside to it like they did with Calm Spirit and Technician.
It's just practically an Iron Will into lockers perk. I've heard people say it helps Head On users, but there was no need to remove the aura for gens and other survivors... You could argue that with its current changes and putting the old effects on, it'll help a survivor regroup as they now evaded a chase and can see other survivors to get healed.
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I don't know why people stereotype Distortion users as being completely useless and just doing rat behavior by hiding all game.
People can use Distortion while being good at looping, like I said in some other post a while back... Distortion only rose in popularity due to the amount of aura perks/add-ons that were introduced.
People will do rat behavior regardless of a perk that they bring. You will still have people hiding in edges and corners without Distortion. At the end of the day, people need to do gens to escape and not all Distortion players play like rats. I've seen many take chase, unhook, do gens, etc. If anything, it prevents a snowball on Friends Til The End after a survivor is hooked.