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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
The changes are long overdue. I cannot wait. Pretty stupid when a killer can just back up and watch you on hook and the anti camp meter dont even fill. lol Great solution there.
Not anti-camp. It's anti-face camp which means it doesnt allow the killer to sit literally right next to hook.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016475#Comment_4016475
If it's VERY rare why would you expect a great play to occur, since the survivors don't see it that much? An if this was soloq, how are they supposed to coordinate, if our party couldn't even manage it? Treating a first hooking like an end game scenario shouldn't be the norm. The killers were not interested in budging until they forced the second. Increasing the radius would help this. It's not that big of change.
If you can't coordinate a 2 man save on hook… I'm sorry but that's just a skill issue. One person body blocks until the killers in weapon wipe then the other goes for the save while the injured runs away. I've seen soloq coordinate saves before it's just a LOT of dbd players are really unskilled.
Like unless its a leatherface or billy you should ABSOLUTELY be getting someone off hook if you have 2 survivors playing it smartly. The way anti-face camp is now is fine and doing it's job as intended. IF you cant pull someone off hook solo that's FINE pulling solo SHOULD be a huge risk of not even unhooking. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016466#Comment_4016466
This has happened more than ten times in my survivor games in the last week or two. I myself went second three or four times. It's not that rare if the hook is in a strategic spot and the killer knows it. They may even put you there with the intent to make it happen.
Yeah so that hook actually takes coordination to save which is fine. Being able to blindly run in solo and trade is very dumb.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016430#Comment_4016430
You shouldn't be able to force someone into second stage because the hook is positioned in such a way that no one can get past you standing just outside the radius. It's the same exact problem as face camping, you're just a little further away.
That is VERY rare nowadays. You can more often than not trade on the hook.
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@cogsturning said:
The anti-camp meter needs improvements. Even on a small map like Haddonfieled it's easy for a killler to proxy camp.
It doesnt need improvement as its doing it's job fine. it's anti-FACE camp not anti camp.
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016220#Comment_4016220
If a killer is using cheap tactics: proxy camping hook, hard tunneling at 5 gens or slugging at 5 gens(no counterplay btw because you dont know what you're getting) you deserve to play with bots. Newsflash people don't "DC over the littlest thing" it's because of reasons above. Tonight I had a springtrap using speed hacks and hitting me with his fire axe through a hay bale. I also had a wesker who proxycamped hook all game. You're telling me I should be forced to stay and deal with it? No…Like I said the penalty should not exist.
You're playing an asymm PVP game. Don't like when the other side is trying to win? PVE games are right there or you can play CoD.
DC penalties deserve to exist because of the mindset "this is cheap I don't want to play against that." Imagine if every other match when you DONT get a ghoul/blight you get an actual new killer like plague, vecna etc and they DC 3 minutes into the match because you did something they didn't like so then you queue up again and get another ghoul/blight. Is that REALLY what you want to enforce?
This community isn't mature enough to handle the removal of DC penalties and they have proved it time and time again. They will NEVER and CANT ever remove them. -
@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016136#Comment_4016136
So what if they do? Why is this all the sudden taboo? Just accept the win and that you outplayed said survivor. Don't punish people for it. The DC penalty should not even exist. It's ridiculous. All the time penalty is doing is pushing newer players away from playing the game.
You saying the DC penalty shouldn't exist enforces this behaviour. It's always been frowned upon to just give up in any game over the littlest thing. I've seen people give up because they simply did not get their Deliverance since they were chased first even though they had a good first chase. Do you REALLY want to enforce that type of player?
Idk people like you is the reason WHY there's a DC penalty. You don't want to play the actual game? Good you can spend time NOT ruining it/wasting four other players' time. Not everything is about you ESPECIALLY in a PVP game. Some games simply aren't for some people. -
@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
Why should anyone be forced to stay in an unfun match? Why can't killers and survivors just accept it as a win? I don't get why its such a big deal. Nobody is responsible for anyones fun. I see killers dc if they have a hard match and just laugh it off. Why can't killers do the same?
The problem OP is saying that any little thing causes someone to give up. Do you give up after ONE bad chase even if you're teams in a good position?
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Yup till this day I still never saw a good argument as to why the killer cant abandon when gates are powered/EGC starts. People try with the "you can push them out" but ignore the fact it is practically over. Lets at least apply the logic from the slug/hooked abandon feature to killers a bit.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014214#Comment_4014214
dude hug tech removal made blight so bland to play on console. It was so fun.
Oh no I wasnt talking about the hug. I was talking about the slide. If you were rushing perpendicular to a wall, looked down and turned into it you could get a pre turn therefor a farther flick. With the super sticky collision added in 7.7.0 it's essentially gone now.
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Yeah BHVR really does not like to touch the complex killers like Twins and Houndmaster. If it isn't a simple TP across the map or dash they take their time to adjust it as seen why they're the BUGGIEST killers in the game for the longest time.
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Yeah this is how I felt with blight back in 7.7.0 and when I truly stopped playing him. Randomly changed his collision for I guess to be more beginner friendly but in turn removed an intended feature which Mclean stated himself to be intended.
So now he's just really boring because I'm forced to go for bump logic only instead of trying to go for flicks or actually weaving through tight spaces. -
I saw someone do tests and the maps affected by the pallet change made their average pallet counts upwards of 18 per map. Forget the fact that they chain into each other over and over so the "50/50s" aren't really 50/50's when there's another pallet or tile right there.
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This perk needed a duration nerf for the longest time. I could willingly go into game and force a killer to tunnel my 4 health state off hook build even if they never wanted to tunnel.
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The tunnel and slugging reduction update was NOT pure QoL. It was QoL for new/bad survivors and a huge buff to experienced ones at the cost of weaker killers being absolute gutter tier because of them while not even majorly affecting high tiers.
It wasn't even an argument of "well they can buff weaker killers" no they could not. They then buff said weaker killers to ALSO be super obnoxious to play against then what. -
@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011179#Comment_4011179
Most 115 killers have speed-altering abilities/options.
Yeah and being faster changes interactions. 3% from MFT did and so will 5%.
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Yeah my issue is there's so many pallets in range now you don't actually have to play a tile vs a killer without a chase power because if they try to mind game you can just hold W to the next tile enforcing a REALLY boring playstyle. It's a shame some people don't like looping nowadays because not every tile is some super safe "you can only get mind gamed if you don't pay attention" tile.
Like MOST pallets are playable but obviously not the ones like the midwich hallway pallet. -
So making every 115 killer a 110 in end game is no longer worth using?
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I prefer the option to freely choose which modes I can be in.
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My favorite part is where they give barely half of Blurry Photo base kit. But now running Blurry Photo is actively WORSE than before number wise. Sure it's only 0.02 seconds but like… did the addon actually need to be adjusted for such a small QoL?
Not to mention unironically nerfed Slashed Backpack when it was already a bad addon. -
Killer sided if its an average survivor which isn't much in terms of skill.
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I hope you aren't referring to the tunnel and slug reductions as "slightly strong"
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008735#Comment_4008735
You can go from being completely dominated by survivors to 4k with just slugging and camping. Thats how broken it is.
If survivors were dominating then got 4k'd they made some SERIOUS mistakes and lost which is fine. They threw the game by not doing the correct plays.
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The problem is there's too many uncertainties. The new killer is extremely good at tunneling yes but its more a necessary evil to even ALLOW weaker killers to do even remotely well. They tried to give incentives and forced punishments, and they turned out as well as you expected. There's no one all "fix" for tunneling and there should never be one cause that's a fundamental thing the game NEEDS.
It's like recently where they shrunk maps but in turn removed a LOT of dead zones when that was a thing that NEEDED to be there. Now every chase is guaranteed pallet chaining if you don't have a good enough power between tiles or even in tiles. This in turn FORCES more killers to tunnel as every first chase now WILL be very long if they have the littlest semblance of how to run a killer. -
Yup but lets nerf 4 of unknowns addons and to compensate allow unknown to look directly up when thats the LAST change Unknown should get.
Torn photo just got worse to run at the cost of making half of it base kit
Slashed Backpack from which I understand was already very bad got nerfed
Vanishing box nerfed
Shadow nerf to iri Captured By The Dark by making the hallucination spawn timer DOUBLE from 12 to 24 seconds
Like PLEASE BHVR stop this spread sheet balancing. -
BT, babysitter, DS, DH and STILL OTR. That's way more than 1 anti tunnel. You shouldn't get to be a 1 man 4 health state off hook army so easily.
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Hag. I'll play Chag but not Hag.
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Yeah the rework just makes myers look more like a chore to play than before and for what… basekit brutal and 20% enduring that doesn't do anything in pursuer mode?
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Ok I'm one to say when something is a bit overtuned and the Krasue post buffs is a bit overtuned. In the PTB when you could just walk past her head lunge and not get hit that was ridiculous and what made her C tier. But in the combination of making the lunge an active hitbox at all times while reducing the amount of times you hit the environment, increased turning and 120% it starts to get a bit much.
I'd say she's sitting comfortably at the top of A tier for now as she doesn't have the insane map mobility Ghoul had at launch where he could just appear due to slingshot due to enraged never ending. -
While not the correct nerf for current OTR it definitely needed a nerf. Mainly talking about its post unhook body block potential with DS and DH for quad health state off hook.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001006#Comment_4001006
If a survivor is looping any of those loops for more than 60 seconds, it is a skill issue on the killer. You assume every survivor plays perfectly at every loop every time. That's simply not how life works. Take everyone's favorite killer blight. Those pallets are gone in 5 seconds and are absolutely unsafe.
If you are balancing the game assuming the survivors are a 4 man swf comp squad and the killer is scratched mirror Myers, you're not going to have an accurate lens to consider balance changes for this game.
So like I said earlier. If the counterplay to the pallet is break pallet, blood lust or use a killer with a better power then that doesn't make it super counterable and to add on, a healthy pallet. Place a Myers, ghost face or sadako there and suddenly that loop is WAY stronger.
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@BigStan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000997#Comment_4000997
Good morning!
I played my first game of the day and took some screenshots. The Jane ended up getting mori'd at the end since she wanted to be mori'd and would not leave, but otherwise it went as any other game. I will admit they hard several gens ready to go when I finished hooking. If they prioritized better, I probably would not have 5 gens waiting.
It is true that when I play as a Chiller I don't enter Iridescent ranks. This does mean I do not always get the most challenging of players. Sadly, you can't go higher than Gold I playing this way. When doing quests that revolve killing, I do kill. Iri I players do make me sweat, but I still play the same way. A lot of times they do escape and that's okay. You don't HAVE to go for the 4K every time. Just have fun. If I pop Tier III or stop tracking hooks, it usually ends the same way though.
I'm not trying to brag though. The point is it's easily done. You can play with the new limitations just fine. It's okay to be considerate of your fellow teammates. It's okay to play at a handicap when encountering weaker players. It's better they have a good time and get the confidence to keep playing and improving at the game than just being mercilessly crushed nonstop until they ragequit the game.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3DZ073PF83LN/setup.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ACWTTL4AAHSP/neartheend.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V2WNIU4GD8MF/waiting.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IJLQX4GP6KIF/results.jpg
Ranks don't determine your matchmaking anymore. Havent for years. There's an MMR system that is based off kills for killer and if you get maybe 1 kill every 5 matches then safe to say you're at the lowest of the low MMR meaning you CAN 8 hook as the weakest killers in the game if you actually are not going tier 3.
Not everyone wants to play as "Mr. Nice Guy" they want to play as the actual killer role and increase their mmr playing against survivors that understand the basic gameplay of DBD. -
@MissMischief99 said:
Behavior keeps enabling killers to be more and more toxic, and they’ve implemented things to force survivors to stay in the game. They do not care about the survivor experience whatsoever. Everything is lip service and they walked it back immediately. Making sure that killers have everything that they want and they don’t give a ######### about what happens with survivors. The only way that will if enough survivors do drastic things to make sure that they have to pay attention.
A lot of this can be literally said for BHVR keeps enabling survivors. Still no abandon option for killers when gates are powered/opened so if they're in the gate they get to rub in their escape by either bagging at gates or intentionally waiting out the end game collapse and running out at the last second. So many killers are left in the dust because their kits weren't designed to keep up with decent survivors and that shows when some people are noticeably cockier when it's a killer they know that can do nothing about their taunting.
If anything, the PTB would have showed BHVR absolutely caters to specifically extremely casual or even bad survivor players that don't really have a fundamental understanding of DBD other than objectives which wouldn't be bad if they did the same for killers which they didn't despite their proposed "incentives." -
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000999#Comment_4000999
The dump truck is already a line of sight blocker. Both trucks are susceptible to a simple stutter step mind game. That is besides the point. Not every pallet needs to be unsafe, especially in the middle of haddonfield, which has always been considered a massive dead zone after the rework. Your definition of playable must be "one loop and throw" or "force a killer stun." The only decently strong pallet on haddonfield is in the bottom of basement house. More than half of the killer roster have tools to shut down all of the loops you provided. Just because Myers is weak on his own map doesn’t mean the majority of killers are too.
The dump truck is NOT an LOS blocker simply maneuvering your camera down under allows you to easily see the killers feet from under it and if not its full of EXTREMELY safe check spots with the gaps between and the corners having cut outs allowing you see farther than an actual corner.. A "stutter step" mind game doesn't really work against good survivors. I've seen survivors loop there for upwards of 60 seconds against some of the better killer players. And you can not say the pallet in house of pain is "decently strong" it is a god pallet against most killers.
Trust me just because a pallet takes actual attention span to loop doesn't mean it's weak. -
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000983#Comment_4000983
Are you calling them safe compared to the pallet that spawns next to the 1 foot wide tree? Or the 1 foot wide hedge in the corner of the map? As any killer, you loop the truck twice and force the survivor to throw the pallet, oh the horror. This is exactly what I mean. Oh there's a tile the killer is ACTUALLY weaker at? That provides a miniscule amount of safety for the survivors? Nope, let's nerf it and not tell anybody. Just like how they removed one of the bus windows on autohaven and just left a hole in the side instead. At this rate, every shack will have a breakable door and no window, and killers will still find a way to complain about shack.
The trucks are mindgame-able, and that's not even mentioning survivors getting stuck on broken collision because the game engine is running on duct tape and a dream.
Lets be honest most pallets on haddonfield are playable to an extent. "1 foot wide tree" is a very major stretch if you run the pallet correctly.
You can NOT tell me these "have counterplay" other than just use a better killer, blood lust or kick pallet when the survivors have LOS on you the entire time making mindgames entirely meaningless.
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Because the car loops on haddonfield were some of the safest on the map to run? They had VERY little mindgame potential for the killer. Especially that dump truck loop. The only really weak car loop on haddonfield was the police car in front of main.
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You can thank no hook grabs for the removal of skill expression. No threat of the killer grabbing = free trades. Why coordinate a save against a camping killer (which still can happen in soloq) when you can just wait for the killer to walk far enough and then full send it to the hook.
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@CrypticGirl said:
Yeah, it doesn't matter how long the DS stun is. Once it's used, it's gone, meaning the Killer can continue chasing that person with no fear of consequence. Same with OTR and Dead Hard. Once they take that endurance hit, they're vulnerable to another down. All those perks do is delay the inevitable. The person being tunneled will die, regardless of their anti-tunneling perks, or if the teammates try to bodyblock for them.
The DS stun timer does actually matter. Five seconds quite literally just allowed you to run across the map against most of the roster. 3 Seconds was still balanced IMO to this day as it actually made you think where to go down so you can get to a nearby tile but since it is 4 it's in a weird spot.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000358#Comment_4000358
game goes too fast, too few hooks and gens are almost done… so one survivor just gotta go
"Killers wouldn't tunnel if they had nothing but easy matches where they could just win without tunneling." Got it
If they made a mistake and were losing because of something THEY did wrong, I'm sure they would say, "This one's my fault. I won't tunnel here to artificially boost my MMR and cover up for my lack of skill." That totally never happens.
It's weird, when you let killers unilaterally decide when it's "OK" to tunnel, their answer (always) turns out to be a lot less nuanced in practice than the "It's a legit strategy" crowd is comfortable admitting.
Some killers HAVE to but other don't but still have the choice. Of course you're gonna see pigs tunneling a lot if they got no head traps left because that's about the last thing they're able to do to turn the match in their favor.
I'm glad to admit my mistakes but my issue is BHVR keeps insisting on adding measures to actively undo/lessen the severity of survivor mistakes when in reality survivors can afford more mistakes than most killers can. A survivor going down somewhat fast nowadays is fine because other survivors can potentially make up that time. But certain killers getting pallet saved once is already a good lock on you getting 1-2 kills max unless the survivors really hand you the win on a silver platter. -
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999768#Comment_3999768
They know this. People around here are just intentionally misconstruing the situation to play into a victim narrative.
The developers were very clear that the systems will be returning after being tweaked. People are intentionally ignoring that because it doesn't fit their agenda. And it's painfully obvious because no one will comment on it further than issuing downvotes to anyone who points it out.
Its case and point lol. You said basic facts but get downvotes mysteriously. I still have yet to see a survivor provide a good argument to the original proposed system being in place other than the "just don't try to win" argument.
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No and yes. Strictly PVP games by nature are competitive. You can play how you want but not everyone is gonna be playing that way.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
15 isn’t hard at all.
Run pain res + eruption and that alone is enough if you don’t instantly win/lose.
Yeah but then there's the issue of not everyone owning artist or nemi. It still is absurd for 15 gens in a single match leading to you being forced to farm it.
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999358#Comment_3999358
So they're tweaking it… and putting it on another PTB. Then pushing them live when they believe it's ready. That's completely different from what you said. If they were making tweaks then pushing it live "no matter what we say" then it would be coming with this chapter. Which they straight up say in the part you circled they are not doing.
I didn't say anything. I provided the proof the person wanted that BHVR is gonna make tweaks to the reduction system.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999316#Comment_3999316
Proof? I haven't seen this.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999226#Comment_3999226
Gaaaahhh!!! How come people are talking about FUN in my game?!!?! This is a serious competive game!! Leave your fun where it belongs AT THE DOOR.
Hot take fun is the only thing that should matter.. know why dungeons and dragons still exists and is popular in the year of our Lord 2025? Because at any point rules and be back seated for fun. It's the only thing that matters for the health of the game.
Maybe the solution is just to start the game with 3 survivors at 3 gens so that killers don't lose there fun. It will still be a 4v1 game but the game starts with the killer sacrificing the 4th player (bot) making everyone happy.
I'm talking about selfish fun. Would it be fun if survivors still had to suffer from first down Moris on any killer? No because first down mori's was downright unhealthy for the game. This PTB would have been disasterous for the games health as slightly slaps a couple killers and puts weaker killers in an EXTREMELY rough spot and the only thing they got back for it was… 10% haste for 10 seconds, 20% current regression pop (which isn't that good) and slightly watered down BBQ and chili. Weak killers simply cannot make good use out of these against good survivors.
This would have sacrificed so much of the enjoyment of killers that aren't even that good for making newer/casual players feel not as bad for dying in a game they're not even good at… Which makes me question if you ARE actually casual for dbd why do you care if you get tunneled? Slugging I can kinda get but chase is legit THE most interactive part of dbd. If you don't like being chased idk what to tell you. It just doesn't make sense. Also DBD is a Player versus Player game, its always gonna be competitive no matter what even if you want to deny that. If you want a horror experience with other people, there's plenty of co-op horror games out there that doesn't have the killer being an actual person.
Also DND isn't a fair comparison. You can legit make ANY scenario with DND as it's a sandbox. -
I just find it people care more about their fun than actual game health. You cannot sit here and tell me that if someone hovers for a pallet save on first down, so I'm forced to either waste time getting the injure or let the anti-slug build up while 2 other survivors are on gens. Because in this day if you lose your first down its most likely ggs as a lot of killers where there's nothing you can really do to come back other than capitalizing on survivor mistakes and not your own gameplay.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998597#Comment_3998597
The sluging part of the patch wasn't extreme. If you can't pick somone up in 90 seconds then they should be able to get up, especially in solooq, where you can't depend on anyone and your teammates actions aren't always in your best interest. I've had many matches where randos have flashlight-saved me or done sabos and that's gotten me slugged or targeted despite having no say. Take it out on the person doing the saves, not the person being saved. I've also had my fair share of killers who've just left me slugged for fun.
As killer, I've had times when I went after a nearby second person after a down and have completely lost track of the previous down. I had one recently that went through the whole timer, despite me looking for them nonstop. I would have let them go if I'd found them, cause it was my screw up and it wasn't fair. I'd rather them just be able to get up for themselves.
They should cater to the majority, casual or otherwise. The whole reason for new IPs and content is to attract new people. The game will die without that constant influx, and it also needs to be playable for them. If you started this game now and got tunneled and slugged constantly, there's a good chance you'd quit since you don't have any idea how to counter that behavior and you're probably not having any fun.
It was extreme. Over the course of two downs you can easily waste 90 seconds sitting under a pallet while a teammate threatens a save. 90 seconds of two other survivors sitting on gens. It was abused in the PTB and would have been abused in live. Why was I getting punished for SURVIVOR induced slugging?
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Because rightfully the changes were not made in the best way. It actively punished ALL forms of survivors just being downed and hooked. Which the only fix should have been extreme scenarios and not giving the survivor basekit unbreakable because they went down under a pallet twice with a teammate that has Background Player. Also the incentives they tried to give simply were not good enough for lower tiered killers.
And it quite literally has been shown that BHVR caters more to the casual and new players rather than people who actually get decent at the game so I guess screw them right? Why make it more fair at all levels when you can just give new players a experience by dictating how a killer can play. Which is crazy to think since DBD is a non-party PVP game. -
@sinkra said:
Killers better get ready for very long queues even after 2v8 ends, because survivors are boycotting the game until the devs make it fair like every other pvp game.
Wont happen. DBD is a drug that some people can't live without. Even historically killer queues times have never really been that long outside of MMR experiments with the 40 minute twins queue. Survivor queue times on the other hand…. yeah. Those at least NA East have been actively climbing.
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I'm not opposed to the idea of punishing HARD tunneling and slugging. But the changes aimed to punish ALL tunneling and slugging. And believe it or not the 20% current progression pop with 10% haste was NOT a good enough incentive for the lower tiers.