Blueberry
Blueberry
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303142#Comment_3303142
I like what you said and agree.
I think the biggest issue facing this game is that some of the killers just can not be enjoyably played well beyond a certain MMR point, and that sucks. Users want to play the one they want, not be feel forced into a tiny group to remain competitive. Just like survivors that can pick a skin and keep going.
Maps just feel broken, often you'll have three gens spawn within Wesker's bound distance from each other, and Its game tossingly stupid not to control that point. But, its not really fun for either side to play this way all the time. Also, it doesn't mean the killer will win. Certain tile set ups, as you mentioned leave the killer unable to catch the survivor twice, and combined with a COH across the map leaves a camping stalemate that drags until the survivors win or make a mistake.
I think the play styles can open up and get away from gen regression, camping, and tunneling, once the killers are all equally viable, the maps are better, and a few addon/perk things are added to make other styles possible.
Addressing the original point, I don't feel minor adjustments to regression perks can fix the core issues.
Tunneling isn't an issue, its more like a response to capitalize on weakness on that specific survivor. And I know its not really a fun tactic.
Camping is generally know as a dumb thing to do, its only really good in specific map layouts at specific times, and SWF seems to love it. They enjoy the back and forth around the hook at end game collapse or near a three gen, if they didn't they would just leave while you stare at your one hooked survivor. I don't think anyone really wants that camping to go. And I know no one likes a five gen face camp Bubba.
How is gen regression a problem? Its boring? I mean, what is the killer supposed to do? Play full offense with no perks that support that available? I guess, I think if the map/killer balance issues are addressed, you'll see that style of play, if the developers make it viable.
Well if those map and layout issues were actually fixed properly I’d give even as heavy as a 50% nerf to regression perks, cut their power in half. I also think people default to them because honestly most the non gen regression perks are really, really undertuned bar a few exceptions. Most the chase perks and information perks need hefty buffs to be more competitive. The information the killer gains and how much the chase is shortened by the anti chase perks needs to be equivalent to how much time is being saved with gen regression perks. Currently it’s not even remotely close.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303303#Comment_3303303
I mean for a hit, I'd prefer if that was the down time but that just seems like wishful thinking for any killer without a 1 shot.
Oh man 30 seconds for a down even sounds like a loss to me. That means for that one hit or pallet (not even a down) you lost 90 seconds of gen time (30seconds x 3 other survivors). That means you're losing 1 gen per hit, ouch lol. I agree that's how long it can take most often, hence all the camping/tunneling/gen regression stacking.
And this is before we even get into how much time you lose in locked animations. Pick, carry, and then hook. that's like 15 seconds x 3 other survivors = 45 seconds of gen time every hook...that's wild.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I made a very similar thread on this topic fairly recently:
In conclusion I think most people agree that a majority of the killer roster can’t down good survivors quick enough a lot of the time. When you add in low mobility on large maps then you end up with killers under pressure and needing the first chase to go EXTREMELY well in order to not lose 1 or even 2 gens before the first hook. This is where the slowdown meta and camping/tunnelling do all contribute to the vicious cycle of gameplay that often occurs.
Ideally the game would feel generally more “chill” on both sides but alas I don’t see that happening.
That's kind of why I see the more ideal solution as fixing map design so that gens will take longer so that the survivors can enjoy long chases without it costing the killer the entire game. Rather than what we currently have which is unfun and super short chases combined with camping/tunneling in order to keep up with the gen speeds.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Considering survivors actually doing well and are objective focused; I'd say chases have to top at 30s.
For a hit or down you're saying?
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303260#Comment_3303260
It's a convenient thing to hide behind.
But usage rates don't completely explain why they completely nuked Pop & Ruin. They could have made much more reasonable changes to Pop & Ruin and lowered their usage rates to reasonable levels. Lowering Pop to flat 20% (not 20% of current) and only adding the death deactivation (and not also destroying its regression) would have been those reasonable decisions.
It just makes too much sense to me that it was a business decision. Especially knowing BHVR.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303266#Comment_3303266
If WoO is just a tool for new players then why do we see a high percentage of all players using it?
Most often I am seeing WoO played alongside Dead Hard and Resilience. These are not new players. These are players who want easy mode DbD who don't have to even have to think when they play the game. Drop glowing yellow thingy and move on to next glowing yellow thingy...
What seems more probable:
- They don't know how to balance well
- It's a sneaky plot to squeeze extra money out of players
I mean really. #2 is much less likely.
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I play almost strictly solo queue as doing swf feels like too much of an unfair advantage and like I'm cheating.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303256#Comment_3303256
Pop and Ruin weren't destroyed for the sake of balance. They were destroyed so BHVR could sell more Freddies, Nemesises and Sadakos.
Imo they were destroyed because of usage rate instead of balance.
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I think Windows is fine. High usage doesn't imply it needs nerfs as you said.
Good examples of where that went wrong on things that didn't need nerfing:
Ruin
Self Care
Pop
Corrupt
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Merry Christmas friend!
The forums seem way emptier since the update it feels like. It's usually busy on here. Not sure why.
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@solarjin1 said:
A survivor wanna min chase (of fun looping) if not more. Getting down quickly by the killer make u feel one of two things.
●"I'm playing badly! a skill player wouldn't go down this quick"
●the killer is op or annoying cause he's to strong in chase
i personally hate trickster because of this
That's kind of the impression I get from most people but a minute chase is not even close to viable for the killer unfortunately. I'm curious to see more opinions on the time length.
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How about we gut DH in exchange for gutting Eruption?
At least Eruption doesn't give them any value unless they are actually good enough to consistently down players. DH gives enough reaction time in the swing animation to give good survivors enough time to react, aka little counter play and adds way more time to a game than Eruption gives back.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
I really wish chase perks were better
They make things more interresting then just add time to a match
For real. Bar a couple most chase perks are pretty trash.
Most the information perks could use improvements as well.
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@Legion_S_Tier said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303173#Comment_3303173
i’m not sure i would agree with that. i feel like you shouldn’t be injured from deactivating a trap basekit as there has to be some form of disabling his trap when you go against a basement trapper to make it not impossible to unhook. the trap resetting one seems a bit over the top as well because there are some traps you can place by gens that would make it literally impossible to do the gen.
That’s why I also added the caveat that he would now also have an increased range that he would be able to place traps near hooks to prevent those situations. Also the trap on gen is a bit unrealistic, most gens have multiple sides and he wouldn’t be able to have traps at every side on multiple gens, not to mention he’d now have zero traps to actually catch people at loops. Finally without something to punish trap disarms he’s left defenseless. I can literally just follow him around disarming everything while my team pumps gens. It’s too punishing and he has no real counter play there.
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He needs all those things for sure. He’d still be weak though. Make both his ultra rares base kit as well and give him new ones, now we’re getting there. Currently Trapper running both those ultra rares doesn’t even get him into A tier so that seems reasonable. With how easy it is to just follow him around disarming his traps there needs to be some kind of repercussion. Tbh his trap setting should be silent as well. If he got all this I’d add a further blocked range for putting traps around a hooked target to lower his ability to trap them to death in exchange. What he really needs is a lot more ground foliage on maps for his traps well but that’s too much work and probably not going to happen, it really limits his trap placement creativity though.
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There are unwinnable games in DBD as killer, it is what it is. You rely on survivor mistakes to win.
4 medkits/toolboxes in the lobby or loading into Eyrie/Garden of Joy/Ormond? Your chances of winning are already quite low. The survivors have to be playing really bad.
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I messed around with this play style quite a lot. It's pretty hit or miss. Nearly never works with any SWF and only works on solos if no ones running CoH (which is almost never). At the end of the day she's an m1 killer with no anti-loop and a pretty bad stealth. Even a decent looper can make her lose the whole game.
I think it's more viable than a meme build but not by a ton if the survivors aren't bad.
Not sure why people would call it boring. It's an extremely fast paced play style with tons of micromanaging and the killer isn't stacking gen regression perks, this should be something to be happy about. I found most people in my matches enjoyed seeing a different type of play style and build than all their other matches.
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@Brimp said:
I feel like the biggest problem right now is map sizes and gen spread. When there's a decent gen spread where every killer can compete without running 3-4 slowdown then it would be good to make perk changes towards gen regression.
^ This is actually the main issue as well as tile strength and tiles chained together.
Most maps need to be significantly reduced in size and most loops need to be significantly less safe. Most killers can't properly pressure maps with how big they are and most pallets are auto breaks because the loop is nearly unplayable while the pallet is thrown if the survivor is even semi decent.
Those are the real issues. If those things are done then we can start throwing some strong nerfs to regression perks.
That said, as OP mentions the game needs to reward killers who play "fair". Playing fair (spreading hooks around, not camping/tunneling) needs to made to be the most optimal way of playing, it's currently not.
The ideal size that we should have all maps based around roughly is Coal Tower. Talking size here, not layout. Coal Tower is the size that even m1 killers without map mobility can have a chance of pressuring.
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@RaSavage42 said:
I'm seeing things different....
Progression VS. Regression- are two vary different things at this point
Maps some of them need to be bigger and others need to be smaller
And yes Perks are a question mark at this point... some are strong and other are weak
Which maps do you think need to be bigger? I can't think of a single one.
Whereas like 90% of the maps need to be smaller to varying degrees with 10% being just right.
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I'd rather use other perks, but many other perks are way under tuned and most just bad. Let's push for lots of buffs to all the other under used perks to make them competitive.
The other issue is the game being designed where so many slow downs are required to make the match last as long as it should at base. We need map design addressed so that we can lower the strength of gen slow down to make it less necessary.
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The devs #1 priority for the new year needs to be map reworks to better balance them. That has been games biggest issue for years.
As you mentioned with Eyrie, most maps are way too large with loops that are way too safe and can be chained together.
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@StarLost True unfortunately.
I really think they need to shrink down the size of many peoples to make them pressurable by those weaker killers with less mobility. We can adjust the higher tier killers accordingly that this may over buff in turn.
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i feel like everyone comes at this from the wrong direction. Instead of punishing killers how about we give them incentive to leave, ie reward them for playing fair. They camp/tunnel because it’s efficient, so make them playing fair be more efficient.
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Any perk that relies on the survivor being on the gen when the hook lands is going to be trash. The only people ever being hit by that are bad players and no one cares about winning against bad players. The only way this works and the only reason pain res works is for the regression amount because it isn’t reliant on survivors being on the gen at the hook moment. If we’re changing Eruption to be like this the regression amount needs to be significant higher as then the Incapacitated effect is basically irrelevant. Keep in mind that Eruption in its current state is what incentivizes killers to make chases since if they can get the down before the gen pops they will have time to save them. Without that effect we’re going to see even more camping/tunneling then we already do.
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A lot of people have issues with map offerings but the issue isn’t the offerings, the offerings just bring to light the real issue which is the maps themselves. There are still many, many maps that are severely unbalanced. We need to fix the maps.
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@CaulDrohn said:
I like playing with Coup, and if you are accustomed to it, it's not so difficult to keep the stacks, imo. With dead hard still being meta, it's often better to avoid lunges and go for quick attacks after all, since reacting to quick attacks is way more difficult. So for me, it's not really necessary to have a different input to trigger it.
What I would like to see changed, is giving it ways to earn tokens after all gens were done (every x hits, every x downs, every 2 hooks). Or like Blueberry wrote, give it a stackable increased lunge range based on the gens being finished (similar to Fire Up). But I think it would need a cooldown then, having increased range with every lunge sounds broken to me.
I was just thinking if the percentage was low enough we wouldn’t need the cooldown. Like hypothetically if you’re getting just a 12% lunge each time I don’t think that would need a cooldown.
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I feel like the map is required, otherwise you won’t be able to force the guard trigger on survivors.
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I’d personally just rather them lower the % and make it a permanent passive stacking lunge increase as gens are completed. So much simpler and more useful.
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With how prevalent hook suicides are at the start of match I’m curious how much that swings kill statistics. I’d imagine it’s significant.
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Just seeing yourself load into those maps your chance of winning just dropped by at least 30%. Feels bad. No maps should be that unbalanced.
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Most those perks are still bad and 99% of killers would still run those nerfed versions of the gen slow downs over them. The true problem is that killers don’t have enough time to kill. Until we address that core problem no one’s going to stop stacking slow down. Stacked gen slow down is required against good survivors. Maps generally speaking need to be shrunk down in size tremendously and loops be made way less safe. Most pallets when dropped should be a 50/50 of who’s better, currently it’s more like a 90/10 for most dropped pallets which forces a break. Most maps are also way too large for any killer without map mobility to have any chance of actually applying pressure.
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Biggest outlier are medkits followed by toolboxes. Medkits have been way overtuned for a very long time. With how fast gens are toolboxes shouldn’t stack with other gen speed up perks.
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the Only thing really hurting thrill is the the fact that it’s a hex itself so it can be cleansed early before it gets all its value. It needs to just be a normal perk.
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The other boons are fine but CoH is an issue. It takes less time to self heal than it does to get the hit. One CoH in the game makes the hit and run pressure play style unviable and basically tells the killer he’s gonna have to tunnel each person out one at a time since just an injure is meaningless. It’s current state encourages the exact behavior from killers that survivors don’t want.
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It was a terrible change for the game and shouldn’t come
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Been asking for this for years. Would make the maps feel a lot more alive.
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So for pain resonance/DMS why didn’t they just let go of the gen as the hooking animation aura was shown and prevent the entire gen blocking scenario from happening and then the gens completed before the killer can even walk over?
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You could make both Trappers ultra rare addons base kit and he still isn’t even at A tier. That should give you idea of how seriously weak he is. All traps at base sounds like a good start, but as illustrated he still needs a lotttt more.
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No. Hexes are high risk/low to moderate reward. Plaything and pentimento are the only decent ones and even those take so long to get rolling that the games usually over by then. Almost all the hexes need massive buffs to be worth the risk and totems in general need a rework to how they work since after all these years they’re still in terrible spots. Since it’s clear we can’t figure out how to hide totems they just need to function different with the assumption that the spots are bad.
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That house is the most unbalanced building in the game. As killer you basically give up any gens near it and never attempt to even play it. If you by chance get lucky and do down someone you will have wasted so much time that you’re basically throwing the game anyway. Look for the best 3 gen you’ve got at the start that isn’t near the house and try to hold that.
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You're right, but the only people going to understand this are those that play killer at high mmr.
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@Mr_K said:
Why not wait until after the match to look them up? Do you play differently if they are live or not?
Because sometimes they don't have their stream settings to where you can rewatch the match so by already having it there I can quickly hop over after the last hook to hear post game chatter. I'm not subscribed to those people since they're random so I'd otherwise have to go through advertisement videos first. This seems normal to me.
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@HugTheHag said:
I didn't read through all of them, and some I agreed on, some I didn't. Chili for example is at a nice place in my opinion. It's still used by 20% of killers, so I don't think it's disappeared or in need of a buff. Even without the bloodpoint bonus, it's a really solid perk.
I was interested in your rework of Territorial Imperative though, mostly because it's the first one that came to mind when I read "killer perk reworks" ! I like what you're offering, still is a bit inconsistent because sometimes you won't get basement hooks at all, but would make some nice stealth plays.
I'd thought about a Territorial Imperative rework at some point, a new effect as well. It's in the same spirit, but more consistent. You could set a small perimeter (14m -> 20m diameter, question mark ?) in any area with an action key, that would make this area your territory. Anytime a survivor is in this territory, the perk icon would light up with a number telling how many survivors are in your territory. That would make it a strong perk to monitor areas, and an actual tool for map control. You could change your territory location after a long cooldown (120 to 100s feel appropriate, but it's a very rough estimate).
I feel like a large portion of those people still using BBQ are people who don't even realize the BP component was removed. The last time I saw a single person running BBQ was literally weeks ago. It's that rare. I can't see enough value in current BBQ to where I would ever run it over just stacking another slow down perk.
I like the idea you're trying to do with Territorial Imperative but that's just way too complicated for the amount of work they'd have to put in for that. I feel like they're typically looking for much quicker implementations.
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While Freddy is weak and needs buffs he honestly just needs another rework, his kit is boring, unoriginal and literally just copy/paste re-use of other killers abilities. Original Freddy design was actually unique.
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Really wish they'd stop putting artificial rules in place so people can actually see how completely unbalanced things are at the top end.
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Offerings aren’t the problem, the problem is map design which leaves some maps way too broken. Also, it’s a 4v1, killers map offerings should be weighted more than survivors it just makes sense.
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The problem is map design, that’s what killers need. I don’t want noed, it gives free undeserved kills.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298059#Comment_3298059
But the survivor wouldn’t end it actively by exiting the locker. The killer has to still do it anyway, either locker grab or mori. The survivor isn’t completely innocent, but the killer is the one deciding not to end it.
That is irrelevant. The survivor could jump out and go work on a gen or open the gate.
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Personally I think they nerfed it a tad too hard. They should’ve left it at 100% but just make it give permanent Exhausted period so that if you want to run it you aren’t allowed to use Exhaustion perks.
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@HungrySnek said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298467#Comment_3298467
Are you playing dumb or are you actually dumb?
He’s trying to point out flaws in what you’re saying without saying it directly. Having a person solve the problem themselves helps them to understand it better than just telling them the answer directly.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298059#Comment_3298059
But the survivor wouldn’t end it actively by exiting the locker. The killer has to still do it anyway, either locker grab or mori. The survivor isn’t completely innocent, but the killer is the one deciding not to end it.
That’s not what holding the game hostage means. It would be preventing the other person from moving the game forward. Ie if the survivor was in the corner of the map and the killer was standing there blocking him from moving while refusing to hit him but also refusing to move. In this case the killer is holding the game hostage because there is literally nothing the survivor can do to move the game forward without action from the killer. That is not what is happening here. The survivor can move the game forward by exiting the locker, he is not being prevented.