Blueberry
Blueberry
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Just need the Incapacitated changed to blocking the gen. This removes the unfun factor of preventing the survivor from playing the game by giving them other things they can do. The issue with the perk is the unfun factor of Incapacitated, not that the perk is too strong. This would still technically end up being a nerf to the perk though.
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Them nerfing Thana made no sense at all. Even in its last form it was only “worth running”, mind you still not nearly as good as all current or previous slow down meta so it still wasn’t the optimal choice, it was just good enough to run without thinking it was a meme build. And that was even on its best killers (plague and legion), on the rest the roster it was just barely passable. Now it’s straight up terrible, like literally meme level of bad even on plague or legion. It was good design as well as it encouraged the killer to split pressure instead of tunneling someone. Needs its nerf reverted yesterday, the hit and run meta is already dead as is from CoH anyway. We want meta/strong perks that encourage split pressure instead of focusing one person.
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You’re quite sure of your opinions that I would say a few are wrong objectively.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315161#Comment_3315161
Thats exactly the goal.
1.) Bring Solo closer to SWF without buffing SWF (which is hard)
2.) Then, adjust the Killers. (Well, we dont need to discuss that M1-Killers need massive "chase-buffs" in comparison to the good killers).
This issue with this is based on their track record by the time we get solos as close to swf as we’re going to get them it’s going to take literally years before we get the appropriate amount of killer changes to bring them to swf level. An unrealistically attainable goal in other words. The core issue is map design and we get a new map fixed at the same rate we’re getting new bad maps added. Just fixing the maps alone and nothing else would take them years.
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I typically don’t try to tunnel unless I have to but if they abuse the “anti-tunnel” bt to prevent me from going after the unhooker instead they are absolutely getting tunneled out. They are preventing me from trying not to tunnel.
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Lol what. Survivors overall are too strong because of map design and a few unbalanced perks. Survivors do not need buffs, the game is currently very much sided in their favor.
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Hmm that could actually be an interesting buff. It also needs to ignore Hemorrhage. I’d want to test this on the PTB to see if it would be overtuned.
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On survivor I’d say fearmonger. I don’t think it’s that good, just annoying. That said, there are a lot more people running aura perks these days which gives it some more value. On killer I’d say Blastmine. It’s really not worth the perk slot for how little killer time you waste, it’s just annoying.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312185#Comment_3312185
That’s not accurate though.
Anyone who mains Spirit barely noticed any changes. She moves at 176% base kit and you can use the directional audio to your advantage and make survivors vault and you can double back to the other side of the pallet quicker then they can react and vault the pallet again (at certain loops). People really underestimate how fast she is moving and how you can use the directional audio to your advantage.
She doesn’t move as fast as killers like Blight or Billy or Oni but she’s still super fast and invisible which causes survivors a lot of times to hesitate against her and sometimes slow vault a pallet.
Of course she isn’t as cheesy as she once was but she’s still an extremely strong killer and I would personally still place her in the top 3.
Anyone who mains Spirit absolutely did notice the changes as they were extremely significant. The survivors can react faster than you can to the sound meaning faking your sound is a joke and doesn’t realistically work against good survivors unless you’re of course running certain addons like MDR because it makes it so that they can’t react faster. The directional audio is never to your advantage unless the survivors are bad.
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The whole items directly countering a killer is extremely outdated. They need to remove flashlights use against wraith and hag.
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Is it annoying? Yes. However, it’s a guaranteed win for the survivors. All it does is make the gens take a bunch longer, but the killer is standing there basically afk and letting you do the gens. It’s not an issue.
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@VaporLion said:
Pigs addon "video tape" also is a problem because she could camp before a jig saw box and you might die based on rng.
Actually no. This was already patched out a while back by adding an additional box. So the camp in front of a box to force the head pop thing is literally impossible now as they are guaranteed to get it off on the 4th box.
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Eruption doesn’t give value unless you’re actually getting downs, ie learning chases. So I don’t see how that’s relevant to not use it so you can learn chases. CoB isn’t giving you much value either unless you’re once again actually creating pressure, which is downs. I get the point you’re trying to make but instead of focusing these perks it should actually just be “go perkless” because it makes the games harder. That’s essentially what you’re getting at. Those perks aren’t carrying bad players as you’re implying. I’d actually argue Eruption is good for the new players because it gives them enough time to make/learn chases without having the game completely over and then they have more time to do more chases (assuming they played well and we’re actually able to get the down). I’m not saying Eruption doesn’t need changes but to imply it’s carrying bad players and preventing them from learning is silly.
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Spies should honestly be map wide and show auras for a second or two instead of location pings. Then we'd be talking.
Dying Light is the big one of me. You could remove literally all of its downsides and it's still only okayish, nothing even that great. Get rid of the healing bonus, make it effect all survivors and make it stay after the obsession dies but it just can't get any more stacks. Even with all this you still wouldn't even see it that often, that's how bad it currently is.
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Quite common to see this in my games.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313528#Comment_3313528
I think the problem is the existence of perks that are 'balanced' by only triggering off great checks. It's just a bizarre limiting factor; RNG to give the opportunity and then the better you are at this timing minigame the better the perk is?
I dunno, maybe trigger it off any successful check but have it limited by some other factor. Token system, range dependent on the state of the game somehow, cooldown, etc. Just something that's going to be less "if a bunch of good players run it that's turning into old OoO".
Hmm I see what you mean.
What if we added a stipulation so it only functions when skill check chances are at normal rates?
This would make it not function with toolboxes, Hyperfocus or any other increasing effects from survivor or killer perks. This would take out all the outliers where it triggers much more often and overall just lowers the amount of procs you're getting out of it by quite a lot as almost everyone synergizes it at least with Hyperfocus if not a toolbox as well.
This would make it very inconsistent for survivors as sometimes you'd get a few but other times unlucky.
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@ShittusPlayus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313498#Comment_3313498
My main point is that some Killers are very easily countered with them and there is no way for Killers to essentially protect themselves from it, not as effective as Distortion it, hell just copy paste Distortion with a different way to regain tokens would be a start.
Hmm, I couldn't see most killers wasting a perk slot on Distortion. Not enough value imo.
Now if it blocked aura reading and maybe reflected it back to show their aura when they would've seen mine, now we're talking.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313498#Comment_3313498
Fogwise does that thing where it makes being good at something (skill checks) even better and with sufficient manipulation of skillcheck RNG (and matching ability to hit said checks) it veers into nearly on-demand, which is... bad. But that's just a combination of bad design choices.
I could see Fogwise being potentially tuned too high, it's one of the few aura perks on survivor I'd actually run. I do tend to find running it though that it gives me a lot of redundant information, meaning it's not really giving me the aura reading at times you'd really want it.
Most the swf already know when I'm coming or in chase with someone else anyway and solos aren't usually an issue anyway.
What type of change would you be suggesting?
I would just make it not function with toolboxes for the increased skillchecks, so you're only getting the base amount to keep it in line.
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The survivor aura perks are still okay I think. I don't think they're too overbearing.
Most the killer aura perks could all use significant buffs. Just the sheer existence of Distortion makes it so no killer aura perks could ever get out of hand and become too meta as Distortion would immediately become meta and shut them down.
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I don't think the issue is necessarily its power level as much as it is the Incapacitated effect which prevents survivors from playing the game, it's not fun.
So while technically a nerf the Incapacitated should just be changed to blocking the gen instead. Now they can still do other things like heal, totems, go to another gen ect.
This would remove its un-fun component while not being too heavy of a nerf.
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DBDs number one issue is map design and it has been for the past 5 years. This is pretty unanimously agreed upon from the community on both sides. Maps are overall way too large in design. They need a pass across almost all the maps shrinking them down. There is also an issue with many tiles being way too safe and linked together. They need to be more of a 50/50 to the better player and not chainable together like a lot of them currently are.
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@sanees said:
Do you remember that there is an Inner healing that can only be used 5 times and only for yourself? now compare this with coh
It’s pretty wild that a perk like that used to actually be seen quite often as it was considered a decent healing perk but now compared to CoH that perk and most the other healing ones look like garbage in comparison.
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It's risk/negative is "suppose" to be that the killer can kick it and you have to re-light.
Unfortunately they completely missed the mark and balanced that time as if it was a 1v1 game as you waste significantly more time snuffing a boon than the survivors lose having to continuously re-light it since every second the killer wastes is 4 seconds given to survivors. ie it isn't actually a risk/negative at all and the survivors hope the killer wastes time snuffing.
On top of that self healing with CoH generally takes less time to complete than it takes a killer to get the hit in the first place. Let that sink in how busted that is.
It's too good at everything without any downsides currently. It single handedly makes hit and run play styles non viable, that isn't good design. It makes more killers tunnel people because they know that unless they actually down and hook that survivor that their hit is meaningless.
Self healing with CoH should either be significantly slower or not at all and make it require teammates to heal. Secondly the Shattered Hope effect (minus the aura reading) should've been base kit. That is actual risk. As now it is still a net negative on the killer to snuff them time wise, but at least it's a limited resource and you will eventually run out of totems to use.
EDIT: Oh and I forgot to even mention how unlike self care it also is only one perk slot..out of sixteen for the entire team to benefit. Absolutely wild.
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I don't think boons are an issue, CoH is the issue. CoH is way over tuned.
You can self heal with CoH generally faster than most killers can land a hit. It kills the hit and run play style single handedly and with only one perk out of sixteen..
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@StarLost said:
Surprised at how many people still list Spirit here...she's far from a bad killer, but I'd hesitate to say top 5.
Also surprised at how many folks forget Plague. She's volatile, sure - but I think most of my 'wait, we were at 1gen with nobody dead, how did we get 4k'd?' moments are courtesy of the Vomit Comet.
Wesker and Artist...love them to bits.
I think they're just referencing Spirit with MDR. Without it I totally agree, she's a shadow of her former self and absolutely not top 5. With MDR however you're basically trying to move faster than the survivors can react to her sound, which is ironically why she's not that great otherwise since they can normally now react faster than you can move making her nearly an m1 killer at most loops without the addon.
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@lLyonl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310177#Comment_3310177
Everything goes. This is at their strongest with everything at their disposal.
- Nurse
- Blight
- Spirit
- Artist
- Wesker
I'd say only the first 3 are really cemented the rest is debatable.
If we weren't allowing all addons though Spirit probably wouldn't even make the top 5. She relies on her addons a lot now, I wouldn't have said that before her nerfs though.
I could also definitely see an argument for Plague being up there simply because her Iri's are very good(the gold standard for what most Iri's should be like imo). The difference between Plague with Iri's and without is a night and day difference in power level.
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@StarLost said:
Honestly, all I want for killer is a change to AFK crows so people can't drag out games for 20 minutes by playing hide and seek while doing a few simple tricks to never get them.
For survivor? Remove self unhooks completely outside of deliverance. Rework perks as needed.
For both sides? Survivors that DC or get 3 AFK crows are replaced by a bot (and the latter also gets the DC timer). DC timer only decays when you finish games without DCing.
"Honestly, all I want for killer is a change to AFK crows so people can't drag out games for 20 minutes by playing hide and seek while doing a few simple tricks to never get them."
Oh man this for sure. Literally almost every single game the last 2 survivors just refuse to touch gens and hide around the map waiting for the other person to be found. Wastes so much time. There should be a crow spawn if no one touches a gen in minutes.
I always just take the L if I'm on survivor in this position and try to move on to the next match without wasting everyone's time.
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Base kit Corrupt Intervention, should've already been a thing years ago.
For survivor you should get a bonus percentage of shared blood points based on what your team does.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311501#Comment_3311501
Ah, interesting. It could well be when I play - I generally knock out games before work, to help me wake up. My wife calls it my 'daily rage coffee'.
Sounds pretty accurate for dbd haha
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For me personally it’s always for survivor during the day and then switches to killer at night
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The main issue is map design. Both size and how overly safe many tiles are. It makes pressuring survivors adequately for most killers and on most maps near impossible.
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Not even remotely. These buffs do nothing. They buff a play style that is bad and will still be bad after the buffs. In order to make knight good in the way they want him played he will need very significant buffs for how bad it is. They also addressed none of his core issues.
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I’m kind of curious to see if the extra wobbling on the killer movement actually costs the killer more time carrying than the 1 second, I suspect it does. Wondering how annoying it’s going to feel combined with boil over as well.
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Not gonna do anything. They buffed a play style that is still just bad. He needs significantly more.
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Does this include any addons or base kit? This changes the list a lot.
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Maybe his addons but his base kit is fine. I’m just worried they’re going to go way too hard and trash his addons. They only need very slight touches.
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I don’t personally play nurse but I feel kinda bad that they will have very, very little perk variety to choose from now. They’re probably just going to stack gen regression like every other killer. Eruption, CoB, OC, and NWTH. Or just throw in a Pain resonance, Deadlock or Corrupt. Nurse needed the changes for sure, just sad to see another killer that’s gonna be stuck running the same perks.
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They need to make it more lucrative for the killer to chase than it is to sit in the 3 gen.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309470#Comment_3309470
We need a different health state for freshly unhooked survivors. No collision would help against the body blocking, but to help against the tunneling i´d even go as far and increase the hit protection timer to 30 seconds, as long as the gates are not powered. Since its a different health state, perks like OtR or DH could still be used after the initial hit. Making tunneling much harder and less rewarding.
I would also go back to the 5 second DS stun timer. Which honestly surprised me, that it hasn´t changed yet. Since the devs tried several times to lower the timer but went always back to 5 seconds.
All those changes sound perfect to me!
DS should be back to 5 seconds, all it needed was to be unusable in end game.
I would even consider making the zero collision after unhook have no timer at all and just deactivate when either they do a Conspicuous action (progressing the game) or after a different survivor is hooked. These wouldn't apply after gates are powered of course or there's only 1 survivor left. I can't think of any way this is abusable unless you can?
Like I said earlier though, all under the assumption killer buffs were brought as well to make it unnecessary.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309421#Comment_3309421
The thing is, saying that it leads to more tunneling is such a stupid take. And it happens all the time when there is some change. At this point, it sounds more like a threat and less like a serious prediction.
Peanits said it pretty well, there is a difference between Survivors getting Icons and Survivors will actually perform in a way that Tunneling and Camping become more necessary.
Example, happening yesterday: 4 Survivors alive, Kate, Steve (both Solo), my SWF-Mate and myself. Kate is on one Hook, Steve is on a second Hook, my SWF-Mate and myself have not been hooked once.
I get hooked and see that Kate is crouching at the corner of the Map. My SWF-Mate gets hooked as well, while Steve and Kate heal. I reach second stage. Steve gets chased, hooked, died. I rescue my SWF-Mate who also reached second stage. Now it is 3v1 with 3 Gens to go, the game is probably over at this point. We managed to do one Gen each (my SWF-Mate and myself), then we both are dead. Kate gets found in a locker and DCs once she got found. She did NOTHING from the moment of her first Hook, except for being at the edge of the Map and going from Locker to Locker.
So, what would the Icons change here? Kate would still dont do anything, even if she sees that my SWF-Mate or I are working on a Gen or being in Chase.
Steve and Kate would still not go for an Unhook so that my Mate or I dont reach second stage. And they had all information available - they knew where all Survivors were (two hooked, last Survivor right next to them).
And this is the problem with those Icons. Yes, they might help. But if the Survivors are not efficient, they wont be more efficient with Icons.
And, furthermore, since tunneling and camping is mentioned - Killer is the easiest it has ever been. And STILL Killers feel the need to tunnel and camp, because the game is even easier when it is an early 3v1. So even if you buff Killers, they will still tunnel and camp. There is not really anything that can be done about it, without making really impactful changes, which can also have a pretty negative impact for the Killer. (or, to be more clear: impact, which makes playing Killer way too hard)
Seeing a hud telling you the other two survivors are on gens indicating that you need to go for the save and telling the other survivors they can stay on gens increases gen efficiency.
You're implying that running something like Kindred for example doesn't increase gen efficiency and it does. It allows people to know when they need to go for a save and when they can just stay sitting on the gen.
Increased gen efficiency = faster the gens get done = more killers choose to camp and tunnel
This isn't a stupid take, it's blatantly obvious.
It's only the easiest it's ever been for killers if you're 4 stacking all gen regression perks and tunneling, not at base.
"There is not really anything that can be done about it, without making really impactful changes, which can also have a pretty negative impact for the Killer."
This is why my opinion for a change was to make tunneling near impossible to do. Something like being unhooked at base giving zero collision until you touch an objective. Now you literally can't be tunneled until you choose to progress the game. Simultaneously we would buff killers after they are unable to tunnel anymore.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309395#Comment_3309395
Rational conversations on this forum? Madness!
On a more serious note. Both sides will have to adapt to the new hud. I predict, after some time getting used to it, that kill rates will drop and survivors will have more negative stuff to say about their teammates in the endgame chat.
I guess I'm being irrational as well by expecting rationality on forums lol.
I'm expecting something similar as well.
I think honestly the best route is making tunneling near impossible and simultaneously buff killers significantly. Serious emphasis on simultaneously, not 6 months to a year after. Also honestly, why are we years later and Endurance is still allowed to be abused for body blocking instead of just zero collision? Not only does that prevent abuse of its intended purpose but also now makes it impossible to be tunneled as you could literally just stand there untouchable as long as you don't touch any objectives.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309395#Comment_3309395
To be fair, you haven't given any reason as to why you think that would be the case. There's a huge gap between 'Survivors can see what each other are doing' and 'The Killer is going to camp more because of that' - especially given half of all players are playing in some sort of group. It's become a bit of a cliche to link any change to an increase in camping/tunneling/gen rushing no matter how unrelated it may be. Unless you make a strong case for it, there's not much to discuss there.
It wouldn't need nearly as much explanation if this were something directly affected unhooking (e.g. a hypothetical change that doesn't notify the Killer of an unhook) since there's a very clear connection between that change and Killers wanting to stay near the hook. But since it's not, it either needs some explaining or it can come across as grasping at straws for a reason to camp.
"To be fair, you haven't given any reason as to why you think that would be the case. There's a huge gap between 'Survivors can see what each other are doing' and 'The Killer is going to camp more because of that' - especially given half of all players are playing in some sort of group. It's become a bit of a cliche to link any change to an increase in camping/tunneling/gen rushing no matter how unrelated it may be. Unless you make a strong case for it, there's not much to discuss there."
Because that was the starter to a conversation. People don't like to read large paragraphs of text. It sets up a conversation for someone to reply "oh why do you think that?" To most people it's also obvious that it's going to do that so they would simply say "yeah I think we should also do this, this and this to prevent that".
I feel this is how conversation flow happens.
I don't feel it actually needs significant pre-emptive explanation other than starting the conversation as you're saying as to most people this causing more camping/tunneling should be quite obvious. The change is going to significantly increase solo survivor gen efficiency making gens fly way faster and making killers feel the need to camp and tunnel more. I'm not saying solo information is necessarily bad, I'm just stating an obvious additional issue that will come from this to start conversation to pre-emptively fix it.
I think most players would agree that increased gen speeds cause increased camping and tunneling from lack of balanced objective times between the two sides. I don't think that's a huge gap, cliche, or even unrelated.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309395#Comment_3309395
Nah, it is just a classic comment.
Anything bad to Killer happens: "We will see more tunneling!"
Anything good to Survivor happens: "We will see more tunneling!"
Acting if Killers are not tunneling and camping like mad anyway. Quite amusing.
"Anything bad to Killer happens: "We will see more tunneling!"
Anything good to Survivor happens: "We will see more tunneling!""
Because it's true. A more constructive response would have been something like saying how we can make other changes to fix those potential increases in tunneling/camping that will come. Instead you just decided to make a sarcastic/mocking comment to me.
"Acting if Killers are not tunneling and camping like mad anyway. Quite amusing."
Is that what I was acting like? Really?
No, I wasn't, if you actually read it for what it said instead of what you wanted to hear through bias.
Camping and tunneling are happening like mad, that doesn't imply it still can't happen more, which is all I said. It feels like you always come at people looking for an argument and trying to incite instead of for a constructive conversation.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309378#Comment_3309378
"Gonna see a lot more camping/tunneling happening with the hud changes."
Classic.
Is it not true?
Can we have a rational conversation instead of just snarky comments at me?
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Gonna see a lot more camping/tunneling happening with the hud changes.
Knight still looks like trash. They're incentivizing you to do something bad with still not enough incentive. Fixed none of his core issues or lots of terrible addons.
Optimistic on the Eyrie changes but I hope the map is much smaller in size than "slightly". We need map reworks like this on maps across the board, much faster than 1 at a time with how many maps we need done.
Really disappointed not seeing perk changes, these need to be done way more often and way faster. There are literally tons of perks that can be fixed with simple number changes, basically no developer time. These ones should not take the amount of time it does.
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First we’d need to make it so stacking regression perks wasn’t necessary and then sure.
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Honestly it’s SO bad right now that you could even make it a non hex, just permanent in its current form, and I still don’t think many people would run it. That should say how bad it’s tuning is right now. Ironically you could say this about quite a few hexes, which should explain why no one uses them.
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"Killer is nowhere near difficult enough to warrant hard tunneling every game"
This is a strawman. No one actually says this or thinks this so it's easy to argue against.
What people are saying is that when it's very good vs very good players you have to tunnel if you want to win. Those are very different statements. When it's bad or even average players which is most matches in dbd tunneling isn't necessary. At higher mmr you run into mostly swf groups, very rarely are they full solos, so that ups the amount of matches needing tunneling drastically as well to make up for that unbalanced efficiency.
Even when I solo queue at higher mmr the killer is rarely winning without doing any tunneling and I don't blame them, they need to. They aren't beating us going for a 12 hook game unless we are playing like trash. Hopefully one day that's not the case in high level matches, but that's not today unfortunately.
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They haven't outright removed tunneling/camping because most people aren't ready for the amount of significant buffs you'd have to give killers to compensate for that. High mmr games those things are required unfortunately.
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I mean is it playable? Yeah. Is it fair for both sides? Not remotely. I’d rather have a balanced tile that rewards the better player more so than requiring the survivor to mess up heavily. It’s so safe that even slight mess ups can go unpunished. Dead Dawg breakable wall would probably be a better solution. Most top tier killers have ways to manage it so it just unfairly punishes the already weaker m1 killers.