Blueberry
Blueberry
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Neither is holding the game hostage. That would imply that one of them is preventing the other from progressing the game, of which that applies to neither person. The killer could just open it and end this and the survivor could just exit the locker and end this. Either of them could end the match right now if they wanted to, they aren’t stuck.
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There really needs to be a lot more significant of a difference in mmr between killers. I can go to a killer that I rarely have ever played and not even touched in over a year and I will still be playing against groups that’s are almost as good as my main killers mmr, that shouldn’t be a thing. They need almost entirely separate mmr’s between killers.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297217#Comment_3297217
about 8/10 matches are with coh for me, roughly. I do use the perk. its pretty consistent perk in my opinion and somewhat underrated. the bigger problem i have is med-kits because there is almost no counter-play to them. in my estimate, i see 2-3, sometimes 4 med-kits in like 4/10 of my games as killer and these med-kit are not some weak med-kits, they're like green gel dressing med-kits with 2 really fast heals. Sometimes you see instant heal add-on as well. I have tried equipping franklins but every time I hit one survivor, everyone just drop their med-kit so it barely does anything. its kinda why I do not use it. I kinda wish overwhelming presence was not terror radius perk and equipping the perk was -100% item efficiency in trial.
With boons, you can get rid of them, over time. its just slow. med-kit on other hand... yeah....
I completely agree with you about medkits. In regards to shattered hope it does remove the boons but then you’re giving up an entire perk slot (25% of yours) to negate 6.25% of their perk slots which is already a terrible deal but it gets worse because in order to use it you have to keep going out of your way to stomp them out which is a ton of time and not insignificant whatsoever. Its way more costly in terms of time for you to stomp them than it is for them to place them. No one minded old self care because of how slow it was and how it made every single survivor have to run it, the problem is CoH only takes 1 survivor to run it, not all 4 which is giving them a lot more perk slots. The negative of having to place it on a totem is “supposed” to be the downside but in reality it’s not at all because you hope the killer keeps wasting time snuffing it because that’s a net positive on time for your team. Shattered hopes sheer existence is used an an excuse for leaving CoH in the unhealthy state it is. It should either be only slower self heals or only faster group heals, not both. The perk is currently game swinging with zero downsides and very low cost. It also overshadows any other healing perk from being ran as it simply blows them all out.
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Losing because of balance problems instead of because I was outplayed.
You can play perfectly as killer and still lose if the survivors didn't make mistakes.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296648#Comment_3296648
Yea i know i didnt really say that it was becuase they were unbalanced. But i mean more survivors think nurse is more "unfun" or hard to go against than lets say clown. The one exception is legion i havent played much legion but well when i play against him peopel DC because well i assume they find mending 20 times boring :)
Yea thats what i was wondering if it was my zone and time of the day. Anyways thanks for the answer!
I never really understand why people dc against Legion. I think people vastly over exaggerate how much they're mending (i mend in a legion match maybe 5 times tops?) and are playing wrong against them (trying to heal).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296928#Comment_3296928
isn't this contradictory statement? One perk carries games, the other one is garbage perk? How does that work? Your saying a perk that counters another perk which is auto-winning games is doing nothing.
This is like saying: Old hex:Ruin literally carries games, Detective hutch is a garbage perk. Wasting a perk slot on something that should've been base kit for totems.
No you’re misunderstanding. I’m saying that shattered hope is a garbage because it doesn’t counter CoH and that it’s bad design because we’re expected to run it since the devs “think” it counters CoH.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296966#Comment_3296966
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296969#Comment_3296969
Well yeah there is a skill issue and there always will be as DBD is a casual game (as much as the competitive lot will try to claim otherwise) and there will be less skilled players. The problem is killers will often just identify the weak link and tunnel them out of the game so the rest of the match is just a war of attrition that is really hopeless due to gen control.
How to fix that? Well I don't know I will admit but I have to say the current gen control meta is killing solo queue and while I acknowledge there is some hyperbole, it is becoming frustrating and the gen control so oppressive it feels borderline unplayable. A first step would be immediately dealing with Eruption, as I am always on gens if I am not being chased I am spending up to 100 seconds a match where I cant do anything and I have no counter to this in solo
I notice incentives seem to be swinging more to the survivor side than ever before...
The reason killers pick out the weakest is simply strategy that happens in every game. As far as tunneling and 3 genning, that’s a symptom of the games poor balance. Gens go so fast they feel forced into it. So in an ideal scenario we’d fix map design so that killers have more time and then in turn we’d prevent the severity of how well killers can tunnel or camp as well as reducing gen slow down perk effectiveness. In other words, the negative things you’re talking about here are the symptoms of a problem, not the problem themselves and we have to fix the core issue first.
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The issue in solo queue isn't perks, it's that most players play badly. It's a skill issue, not a balance issue.
Calling solo queue unplayable is extreme hyperbole.
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CoH is a problem that currently has no solution.
Shattered Hope is the only "supposed" bandaid fix for its bad design and even that doesn't fix how broken it is on top of wasting a perk slot and risking CoH not even being ran.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296784#Comment_3296784
again, play survivor and bring a totem... either people WON'T heal in it or heal merrily ON the totem AFTER leading the killer there...
That's just not true.
CoH literally carries games. Shattered Hope is a garbage perk. Wasting a perk slot on something that should've been base kit.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296709#Comment_3296709
As I've said, 'Survivor' isn't a side.
SWF and Solo can't really be compared.
I can melt a group of survivors. Get those same survivors into voicecoms and let them coordinate perks, offerings, saves and gens and they'll give me trouble.
At high mmr good vs good it’s mostly swf. Even in a full solo if the dice rng rolls well and you get good teammates it’s still easier for survivor. Your chance of good dice rolls on teammates also gets significantly higher as you go up in mmr. The game is currently balanced for solo, not swf, so even lumping them together doesn’t really change the point for what we’re talking about.
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I disagree with his take. If the survivors are even semi decent killer is significantly harder and more skill demanding. At low mmr levels of skill is the only time I’d say killer is easier. However we don’t determine objectivity by bad players or even the average match, we determine it by good vs good. In other words, saying saying dbd is easier for killer and saying that it’s easier for killer in the “average” match are two completely different statements. In “most” matches it’s easier for killer but “objectively”, which is decided by good vs good, the game is very much easier for survivor.
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I love his whole aesthetic and the concept of his power but unfortunately he’s just too terrible to enjoy. The intended way to play him is just flat out bad and unviable. Then the best way to play him is also just boring and way way too easily countered by just holding w. There’s also way too much hand holding with his power, seeing the green orb, seeing the aura around the guards, ect it’s just too much, it takes all the skill out of what he could have been and any potential mind games.
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Dc’s don’t necessarily equate to balance problems, it could literally just be entitlement. This is confusing causation with correlation. If anything I think survivor is still way too easy compared to killer at the high level. My killer queues are actually instant myself, so what you’re experiencing may just be your zone.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/358286/nemesis-changes
I am a Nemesis Expert. The best change for this killer would be to do one of two things :
- Keep the tier up whip system as it is but make it so that on T3 he injures+infects with a whip attack.
- Remove the tier whip system and have him play with one whip length the whole game.
Of these two options #2 makes the most sense. Change Nurse to be a "tier up" killer. She only starts with 1 blink until she has blinked and hit survivors with that blink three times. Then she gets two blinks.
Along with this have Zombie AI changes:
- Zombies now get scaled % movement and detection rates based on map sizes. Any map that is 9000m² or smaller will have a 1.0 effect. For 10,000m² maps increase zombie detection range by +6m. For 11,000m² maps make zombie detection be +12m. Double all detection rates when a survivor is infected. Give Zombies a 25% movmeent speed buff on 10,000m² maps and a 50% movement speed buff on 11,000m² maps. (or we could just make all maps be no larger than 9000m²).
- Zombies don't get stuck. Ok it's not that simple - so have them respawn immediately if they just got stuck. Give them a "sprint burst" effect and a detection boost if they had just gotten stuck and respawned.
- Make Nemesis able to clip through his zomibes
- Make the zombies "killer sized" so they cant get stuck in all the places they get stuck now.
Finally you need to rework like 90% of his addons.
- the pink addon for zombie movement speed should be something like : +50% zombie speed every time a generator is completed for the rest of the match. That would mean that zombies would move at 250% speed when all gens are done.
- Change Plant 43 Vines (green addon) to be : -1 vaccine per trial.
- Change Broken Recovery Coin (purple addon) to be : -2 vaccines per trial (formerly -1 vaccine per trial)
- Change Licker Tongue (green addon) to be : -2% movement speed if infected
- Complete rework for : Visitor Wristband, Admin Wristband.
- Change : S.T.A.R.S. Field Combat Manual to reveal a survivor's aura for 6 seconds when a zombie initiates a chase.
- Chane NE-a Parasite to not have a duration. If you are infected then you are oblivious.
- Double the duration of killer instinct for : Damaged Syringe and Adrenaline Injector
Now this is how you make some actually good addons. These would actually feel impactful and fun to play around.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296062#Comment_3296062
Yes, because its RNG, there is basically no skill for the killer in using them. So yeah i would preferred if the zombies got even worse and they focused on his power and change his add-ons to focus on his power
There is skill there in the zombies in micromanagement of them because you play around them by trying to herd and pincer the survivors into them. The zombies are also the only thing unique about him that differentiates him from other killers. I would go in the complete opposite direction you are and be emphasizing more of him around his zombies and less his whip. There’s very little skill involved in his whip. All you’re doing is hitting them in a locked animation at windows or pallets.
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His whip does need to be better but they need to put a lot more strength and play in his kit around the zombies. The zombies are the unique thing about him that makes the game play different. The whip is just another hit over attack that exists on multiple killers. A lot of his skill should be built around playing around his zombies and trying to zone/pincer with them.
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Pick a 3 gen and hug it down. That's about all he's good for and honestly there's even quite a few killers that do that better.
He's got a lot of issues and needs serious changes.
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So..the zombies which are already borderline useless..you're wanting to make worse?
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6 hooks is a draw, less a loss, more a win.
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Better than the last version for sure, but still not good.
It requires much more skill now but is still too unbalanced at higher level play.
Essentially there's enough time to hit it before a lunge so in order to land a hit you're required to do a fast hit (non lunge). Here's the problem. This essentially lengthens the time to hit since you have to get right up on their back before you can swing, meaning more time to reach the window/pallet essentially giving them the extra dash distance old DH gave. So you're skill here as the killer is irrelevant, you're just hoping they get nervous and mess up by clicking it too early instead of waiting for your swing animation.
Then there's also the factor not relating to power and simply fun. Is it fun now that every single time a survivor is injured you have to get up on their back and play around the fact that they may have a single perk? It also makes it so that you can essentially no longer ever use a lunge attack on an injured survivor as killer because of that perk simply existing. Because of how long the lunge animation is the only time you are ever getting a lunge hit on an injured survivor that is running DH is if the survivor simply messes up, nothing to do with your skill as killer. This isn't even getting into killers that non lunge m1 hits are even rarer on such as Twins or Huntress for an example who rarely tap m1's, meaning their hits will be hit with DH almost 100% of the time being completely reliant on if the survivor just messes up.
That is straight up terrible design.
In high MMR DH single handedly wins games with how long it extends chases. One perk shouldn't have as large of an effect on a game as this one does.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295434#Comment_3295434
I consider myself a decent survivor and I'm not even close to 70%. Do you stream? Maybe I could learn a few things... Lol
I do occasionally, but not often.
Blueberry on DBD discord. If you see me online I could pop it on for you.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295450#Comment_3295450
I think it's also the standards to which survivors are held since the game is being balanced around those outliers, and not the other perks. Wouldn't be surprised if not bringing Prove Thyself, or an exhaustion perk, or OTR all massively decrease your escape chance.
With the old survivor meta, I'd say the only real outlier for power was DH. The rest of the perks were a kind of 'mandatory pick' because they didn't have any competition in their purpose, but that purpose needed to be filled.
I want to experiment more with different perks, but I think match quality will plummet if I do. That said, there's also a ton of survivor perks that are just not worth using at all.
I'd actually argue that bar a couple perks the survivor meta is largely unchanged for the most part.
In a hypothetical scenario of those perks being gone I agree the escape would probably lower. However, I'd also add that I think there are quite a few survivor perks that artificially carry people to more escapes/wins then they actually earned/deserved.
We can look at some killer perks as an example. Surge, Pain Res, Pop, Ruin ect. All of these perks do not carry bad killers as they require the killer to play well in order to get value out of them. If he gets destroyed they barely do anything.
Prove Thyself, "most" exhaustion perks, Off the Record, BT, CoH, DS, Unreakable ect. Notice the difference? These perks don't require any skill nearly at all, they just give value even if you're a bad player.
There are some exceptions to what I'm talking about here obviously but in general the trend I'm pointing out is pretty accurate. Most survivor meta perks can carry games even if you're bad at the game, whereas for killer most their meta perks require skilled play, they don't just give free value to bad killers.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295434#Comment_3295434
god damn! any general tips?
should i be running certain perks more or focusing on gens less. Anything suggestions would help
Most people just waste too much time. If you're actually good you loop the killer for a long time, otherwise just sit on a gen. If you ever aren't sure what you should be doing, get on a gen. Wasting time is the main reason people lose though. Too much walking around, hiding ect.
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It's because the survivor meta perks are so highly tuned that to be able to break into that the new perks have to essentially be way overtuned or "OP" to be considered.
The issue isn't survivor perks being bad, it's more so some outlier survivor perks that are way over tuned and prevent anything else from being considered and those make the rest the perks "look" bad in comparison. The outliers need to be brought down to allow others to be considered.
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Probably like 70%+
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It’s simple actually, the game is balanced for solo queue, not swf. So when playing against a swf group you aren’t playing a “fair” match. While most wouldn’t call it “cheating” since the devs obviously allow swf since it’s a feature of the game, it by definition is if we want to get technical. Playing against someone’s that’s cheating isn’t fun.
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It’s because most killers are bad and he’s actually decent. Pretty simple.
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I’d be curious to see what the community in a poll thinks about counter play. More specifically is running perks considered acceptable enough counter play. Like would we be fair to say running things liked repressed alliance is the counter play for. 3 gen straight with a gen kicking build or that shattered hope is the counter play to boons? Or should all things have counter play at base? Not being rhetorical here, actually curious. I lean towards there being counter play at base, however, if that’s the route we’re going there are already tons of things in the game without counter play at base.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293886#Comment_3293886
Survivors are not under a time crunch? That's quite a hot take. A couple missteps and the survivors can easily be the ones on the bad end of time crunches in DBD.
I would say post perk shakeup I see more variety than ever. Still plenty of meta slaves but also a pretty good amount of unique builds.
I also don't think killers are pigeonholed into builds like you will claim here. An early slowdown or two is more than sufficient on killers with a strong chase power. Pretty much any build is 2k worthy, which is a viable build
"Survivors are not under a time crunch? That's quite a hot take."
I'd say that's pretty unanimously agreed on by most high hour players. Wouldn't really call it a hot take.
"An early slowdown or two is more than sufficient on killers with a strong chase power."
More than sufficient on like 5% of the killer roster. With the other 95% of the roster and against actually equally very good survivors? No, it's not enough. If they're equally very good the survivors have to make a lot of mistakes for it to work.
"Pretty much any build is 2k worthy, which is a viable build"
I mean if you just wanna face camp and tunnel people out you can say zero perks is 2k worthy so that's kind of a mute point. If were talking actually playing normally and any build is 2k worthy? Not a chance.
I'm assuming very good vs very good as that's how we determine objectivity. Not your average bad players.
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You see more variety in survivor perks because there's actually a lot of decent survivor perks and survivors aren't under a time crunch like killers so they have the flexibility to run "fun" perks for flavor.
Killers don't have that privilege against good survivors. They are on a time crunch. They have to run time efficient perks because they are on the clock. Also, most killer perks are just bad.
TLDR: What you're seeing is a symptom of bad map design which makes gens go too fast and forces killers to run certain things. Most killer perks are also just quite bad and undertuned.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3290676#Comment_3290676
Your view of logic is hindered by an inherent bias. As is mine.
What I said above makes complete logical sense to me, however, it clearly doesn't to you.
So, let's try this. Why should The Knight's Guards be able to apply perks?
"Your view of logic is hindered by an inherent bias. As is mine."
You're misusing the word bias.
-prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.
My view of logic is based on data and thousands of hours played. You're trying to imply that I just "unfairly" want things skewed one way which is simply not true. I aim for objective balance on both sides.
"Why should The Knight's Guards be able to apply perks?"
It removes his ability and makes him an m1 killer for the duration, that seems to be a fair trade to me. The idea of perks being applied on guard kicks is simply trading his power for a little bit of walk time. How is that broken or unfair? I can't think of any situation that causes that to be overbearing unless you have an example where it would.
Currently using your guards to kick a gen in 99% of situations is not the correct play.
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The goal should be buffing things that are too weak and nerfing things that are too strong to create more variety and options, not simply just trying to change the meta for the sake of something different.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290691#Comment_3290691
In my experience the best way now to know you are facing swf is when you run eruption ans nobody screams ever but gens still get done 15 seconds later
Even if it's not really common, that it is theoretically possible to be such a huge difference with a simple call out isn't the best of designs.
Most my groups i face are swf of varying sizes. I only get a solo queue group maybe once every 7 games or so.
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We need to stop butchering the game to balance around 1 killer.
Also, just make her blink attacks not considered normal m1's.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290674#Comment_3290674
I really doubt that as all it takes is a simple "about to go down"
Well seeing as 99% of them run dh there's quite a bit of nuance to when that going down is happening to even call it. Also, most swf groups aren't that sweaty for even trying to call timings like that. Just going by my personal experience.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290058#Comment_3290058
I'm not even really sure why I responded tbh.
There's not a reason that you'd accept.
I'd accept a logical reason.
Not accepting bad reasons doesn't imply I wouldn't accept any reason. That's a good way of taking zero responsibility and just assuming you're always right. That's a logical fallacy.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289414#Comment_3289414
It should be changed so it works equally (or how equal it can, it will never be equal 100%) against solo's and swf and then it can be looked at whether it needs a nerf or a buff
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289421#Comment_3289421
Not to this extent
Vs swf who call out when they go down eruption removes 10% of a gen or 9 charges
Vs a solo who can't know when a team mate goes down it does 10% of the gen, removes 25 seconds potential gen time and regresses for 25 seconds, that's 9+25+6,25= 40.25 charges lost per survivor hit
I know you can not realistically make perks effect solo vs swf equally but 9 vs 40 is a big difference don't you think
9 vs 40 is a big difference, I just think you're exaggerating a bit on how often it misses swf. 90% of swf are still getting hit by Eruption.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290506#Comment_3290506
Apparently so, so many people instantly giving up on first down verse anything let alone accepting one side just played better so they won.
I feel too many expect everything to go a certain way and it's always easier to blame your opponent.
Yeah your original post is right on but unfortunately most people on these forums are more average/casual players that aren't going to understand where you're coming from or just simply unwilling to accept it.
Almost every game I lose in solo queue is because me or my team played badly, that covers like 95% of the losses right there. The killers perks even if he's stacking 4 slow downs is rarely doing anything unless were actually playing badly since he needs downs for them to do anything in the first place.
People get bad teammates in solo queue and then want solo queue buffs without being willing to accept the reason they lost had nothing to do with balance, it was players playing bad.
Peoples definitions of "camping/tunneling" is also extremely broad, past actual reality. If i get good teammates he isn't winning without doing those things anyway though honestly. Do I blame the killer? No, I blame the poor balance of the game that forces him to against good survivors. Ideally we'd have the game balanced to where that wasn't necessary but unfortunately that's not reality.
So many people here don't play both sides at a high level and it shows in how they view things.
Anyway I agree with you, unfortunately everyone else here is going to dog pile on you.
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People taking responsibility is a big ask these days unfortunately
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It’s mainly because the only real way to play her is to pick a 3 gen, put your web all over it, down a survivor and put them in the web, and then force every single unhook to be a trade. Boom that’s hag matches. Her playstyle embodies most survivors least enjoyable type of match to have.
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All the killers hugging the 3 gen strat right now is a result of killers not feeling like they have enough time to make chases with how fast gens fly. Ideally we want balance changes that would encourage killers to chase without making 3 gens, camping or tunneling more effective.
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Why are we wanting to nerf a killer that’s already pretty bad? He could use quite a bit of buffs even. The sad part is that he’s one of the better stealth killers..which just really points out how especially sad most the others are.
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She’s generally fine balance wise. I just think they should move more of her power from anti loop and put it into long range sniping. More fun for both sides.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289941#Comment_3289941
Camping, 3-gens and the fact that Guards can kick Survivors off gens by kicking them.
And then they instantly work on it after the kick, what’s the issue? You’re also wasting your power then when it could’ve pushed a survivor off the 3 gen for its entire duration. Doesn’t seem like any good reasons here.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289837#Comment_3289837
i miss original thano, it was fun injuring survivor across the map and splitting pressure. the challenge in keeping all 4 survivors injured was more interesting for me.
Pop+Pain res still exists. Its just renamed to eruption+pain res.
I really liked the last iteration of Thana that we had before they nerfed it. It still wasn’t as good as the meta slow down perks even on its best killers (legion/plague) but it was at least good enough that I’d run it just to mix things up. It really wasn’t an issue and didn’t deserve the nerf, it’s literally a trash perk even on its best killers right now.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289867#Comment_3289867
That should never happen.
What’s the reasoning?
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It's pretty sad getting nerf after nerf to the few of us that actually play them. The CoH meta is what pretty much sealed the coffin though. Had the same effect on most all hit and run killers for that matter though, which generally speaking are the weaker killers in the first place.
You want a hit and run meta as it encourages split pressure and chases. When killers know their injures don't matter because of CoH they just tunnel.
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Guards kicking needs to be effected by perks. It's on the verge of useless otherwise.
Kicking a gen without perks is a waste of time and hurts you more than helps but in this case you're actually also wasting your power and making yourself an m1 killer with no ability for the cooldown in order to do it as well. Just makes zero sense.
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Even 2 groups of 2 in a game is a significant advantage and very noticeable.
A game without a single swf and they're all solos I would say is probably like once every 7+ matches. The higher mmr you go the more and more common swf are.