Blueberry
Blueberry
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693128#Comment_3693128
this could been easily adjusted. lowering cooldown on TV from survivor and killer would reduce downtime TV's being turned off. The tp cooldown should been condemn cooldown in which they did get right on 3.0 but it was on the on wrong version of the killer. The mobility would be untouched, the condemn build-up would work same way. maybe nerf condemn build-up to lesser degree like 0.5 condemn/1 second per tape break if it was unbalanced.
OG sadako wasn't good. it was same problem that current sadako has. There is virtually no counter-play towards spamming televisions because TV spawn near gens and survivor need to do gens to escape. The reason why problem isn't apparent is because tapes & TV's are ultra-broken in favor of survivor. this is very evident when you play Sadako on Elementary Midwich with Videotape copy add-on. It is just TP→TP→TP→TP and everyone condemn in like <3 minutes with 18 meter radius. The mechanic is beyond absurd. The OG sadako did not experience this problem because of 100 second TV cooldown. You had to run iri-tape which reset 4 televisions. Technically the problem was still there but it was based around killer getting hits which was mildly more balanced this version.
2.0 Sadako was genius design. This was because survivor had counter-play tool where they could render the mechanic ineffective and killer had a mechanic to manipulate said counter-play in their favor. Survivor that looped well and held tapes had no trouble defeating her in an average match and survivor that played the m1 game poorly quickly got killed. The mechanic was still a little rough on edges but the overall concept was brilliant. they took a cool concept and deleted it. Indoor maps, it is too strong and in outdoor maps, the killer is worthless vs good teams.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693188#Comment_3693188
Pig is less accessible in my opinion. She can still do same gameplay as before but it takes more effort. Onryo on other hand is changed. you can't use any of your 1.0 Onryo experience or 2.0 Onryo experience to win. She's m1 killer in normal maps and almost free win in muti-floor indoor maps.
I still think she's trash tier even on multi floor indoor maps. Tapes are too easy for it to matter.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692536#Comment_3692536
it has been months with no changes. I have already accepted her current state as final state until new information is given. she is really unfun to play right now.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692089#Comment_3692089
I was one of the first players to say that this version will not succeed. everyone else just told me that this version was good. healthy direction. I just don't see it.
That's what I'm getting worried of. I feel like they're slowly removing the fun from certain killers and dwindling the roster of killers I enjoy playing. My recent casualties being Onryo and Pig, both of which I used to play a ton. I even had my over 100 win streak on Pig still going.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693045#Comment_3693045
They should make males and females the same size. It feels so bad playing a male, because of that. I constantly think; as a female the killer wouldn‘t have seen me.
I mean yeah they could do that, I just don't see it happening unfortunately. This is basically why I only play females as I feel I am heavily disadvantaged for playing a male. The size difference definitely comes into play.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693163#Comment_3693163
they should not resize them but they absolutly should give us bigger girls like and small guys
Whether they would or not is irrelevant to your topic here though. The issue is we have all the guys being bigger at the moment, so how are we solving that? Are you saying they should resize every single male survivor in the game or should they stay larger and just be disadvantaged by size but still have equal sound to the girls?
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I like it. I made a post about about the same thing but for aura colors. They should allow different color options for them in the settings for people with visual disabilities.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693045#Comment_3693045
okey and why cant we make males that are smaler then females? is there like a rule of the universe nobody told me about?
Sorry I should have been more accurate with my wording. The men are currently larger and in general, even though exceptions exist, larger. So unless you’re wanting them to resize every single model which I don’t think they’d do, we’re stuck.
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Well unfortunately you can’t make males smaller than the females so the girls already have a noticeable advantage there. This is why I actually think the males should be a little quieter so they have something to compensate for their size disadvantage.
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I could definitely see that! We haven’t had a killer with one of those smaller Viking type axes or a shield.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692689#Comment_3692689
Oh for sure without a doubt. I’m thankful that developers are at least realizing this and working on enhancing their killers little by little, I know this isn’t possible but it would be cool if there was a specific team of developers designated to just handling this so we could get these fixes and reworks out faster.
Yeah I’m just worried they think all 3 of those killers are fine where they’re at right now and we won’t see their fixes for years now.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Absolutely my friend. Thank you for your comment and your support.
I tried to make my post on this thread easy to read and simple, I hope I achieved that.
You did. I feel like there would be too much to write if you went into detail on each of them. I think SM is like full rework level of help, Trickster could be fixed with just a few tweaks he’s not far off, and Onryo doesn’t need a rework but significant buffs across the board.
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Totally agree. I feel like most the community sees these last three reworks as failures that need revisiting.
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Current state:
The whole Background Player/Flashbang stuff is really annoying and has nearly zero counter play other than bring Lightborn.
The 3 gen kick limit killed a lot of gen kick perks that honestly should be buffed back up now that were limited.
People want gen regression nerfed like Pop/Pain Res but don’t realize you need to reward the killer for getting downs otherwise you end up further and further into tunnel every game territory which is where we’ve been getting more and more into already from all the other regression and Sloppy nerfs. The more you nerf regression and slow down the more tunneling that’s going to happen.
You either need heavy gen regression, sluggin or tunneling. As you nerf the other options people get pushed into what remains.
I’d like to see more variety in the meta but it feels like we’re going the opposite direction. They’re nerfing meta perks out of existence faster than they’re making bad perks viable. Sloppy and STBFL nerfs were bad. Those were a few options other than just gen regression or blocking to run, now everyone’s replacing those slots with more gen perks.
Stop nerfing meta perks and just focus on buffing all the bad ones on both sides to give people more variety.
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I used to main her after she had been buffed, she was solid and competitive. Now she’s trash and unviable unless you’re just playing against bad or low mmr survivors that don’t know what they’re doing. Really hope they aren’t leaving her in this pitiful state or all her reworks were a waste of time.
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How often would you say you experience these matches where the entire team is 4 man slugged and y’all are left to bleed out with him refusing to hook? I’m assuming that’s the scenario you’re talking about anyway, not just slugged while he’s after other people.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691629#Comment_3691629
If you can cleanse through ruin undying thrill pent the game is probably already over
All of those things existed before when it was 200%. We're they ran? The answer is no. Why would now all the sudden be different. You make it sound like you think that is significantly worse than what we have now with PR, Pop, GE, Deadmans.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691621#Comment_3691621
200% in the world of 90s gens + nerfed healing is very big it's better than the majority of killer perk now you can't lose it for someone dying.
That was nerfed self healing, not healing. 200% is half the speed of one survivor, regardless of the 90s gens. Make it turn off if someone dies then, how's that? If you remember the time we had it at 200% it never lasted that long anyway. You were typically lucky if it even stayed up for a few gens.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690977#Comment_3690977
200% would be too much maybe 150% is more reasonable
It still would be ran by no one at 150%. 200% was never an issue before, they were simply trying to change the meta for the sake of changing the meta.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691464#Comment_3691464
I don't think I ever said free value was a bad thing, if it was I'd despise Corrupt. I should've been more clear, sometimes I word vomit stuff out, especially now that it's just me on this account
It's the strength of that value and when it comes into play. If Corrupt was for two minutes when there was one gen left, that'd be massively OP despite it having the same effect.
Let's drop the skill thing. It's an age-old disagreement, best to let it lay.
Splitting it makes it worse. That's now four Survivors wasting time instead of one.
Ideally, yes. Perks should be a bonus, not a necessity. However, that's subjective. Some people would say four gen perks and hard tunneling are required and they still lose. Others wouldn't.
"I don't think I ever said free value was a bad thing, if it was I'd
despise Corrupt. I should've been more clear, sometimes I word vomit
stuff out, especially now that it's just me on this account"You had more than one person on your account?
"It's the strength of that value and when it comes into play. If Corrupt
was for two minutes when there was one gen left, that'd be massively OP
despite it having the same effect."That's kinda what I was getting at. So we just disagree on that being too strong then. We've said all our points, I don't think we're going to agree.
"Splitting it makes it worse. That's now four Survivors wasting time instead of one."
This is just getting back to where we disagree on it being too strong.
"Ideally, yes. Perks should be a bonus, not a necessity."
So you would also agree that no gen regression perks should ever be necessary? So we could nerf all the gen regression heavily and build a bit of into the base game?
"Some people would say four gen perks and hard tunneling are required and they still lose. Others wouldn't."
Generally speaking for most games and against solos? No, I'd say not necessary.
Against 4 mans on coms at high mmr (yes I know you disagree with this principle) on low tier killers? Yes. Unless you're getting lucky and they're making a lot of mistakes. Which don't get me wrong, can happen quite often. My issue here is being reliant on survivor mistakes to win is flawed design and most the killers roster falls under that umbrella.
On high tier killers like nurse, blight ect against 4 mans? No, those killers are good enough, not necessary.
As you said, all subjective stuff though.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691489#Comment_3691489
The problem is that there are still things that survivors can do to "progress" the game while not being tunneled and still get to keep their DS. The big one right now is they can do pallet saves, and flashlight saves.
The best solution is to:
- Buff DS back to 5 seconds, hell i'll even say buff it to like 7 seconds, why not
- Add in: "Deactivates if another survivor enters the dying state"
Problem solved.
This ^
There's lots of aggressive non "conspicuous" actions that are still abusing it for unintended purpose and/or progressing the game.
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Sounds fine to me. It doesn't really address many peoples issues with it though which is getting hit with it when you aren't tunneling. If it never hit me unless I was tunneling I wouldn't care if it was always 10 seconds.
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The crouch tech actually works on multiple killer powers at the moment, it should be removed.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691450#Comment_3691450
I am not the one making a change with the potential to decrease Survivor time allowance. I like that you're very confident about this, but the fact of the matter is that nobody is that hyper-efficient in normal matches. I'm sorry, maybe I could stream for you sometime and you could see what I see, but that's just not how it works for us mere mortals.
They don't know when the Hex is cleansed if it's not already active. Oh good, they can run Small Game and get tunneled out. Adding more perks that Survivors need to run in order to have a tolerable experience isn't a good feature. Even if the Survivors somehow teleported to every totem; that's a bare minimum of seventy seconds. That's not accounting for travel time, looking for the totem or…you know, THE KILLER
MMR absolutely does not work. The current Survivor experience proves it, as does the Killer experience. It's set up based off of speed, not fair matches and we know this for a fact.
Name something.
2017 DS? Bad. 2019 DS? Bad. DS after it didn't work in the end-game and had the Conspicuous Action? Good.
FTP + BU? Strong, for sure. Devastating in tournaments. Could stand to have a nerf now that it's functionally being replaced by DS.
Old old DH? Horrific perk. Old DH? A problem, but not something terrible. New DH? ######### perk, not worth running.
"the fact of the matter is that nobody is that hyper-efficient in normal matches. "
Lots are. It's viewable in my matches I stream.
"They don't know when the Hex is cleansed if it's not already active."
The feature could have it tell them when they broke the correct one, just like it does now. Problem solved.
"Oh good, they can run Small Game and get tunneled out."
Anti tunnel perks aren't required. I nearly never run them. Even aside from that though, I'd like base game anti tunnel mechanics implemented to solve this. That isn't really a counter point. Also, Small Game is one perk, they still have 3 perk slots for anti tunnel if they wanted to run them. I think this is exaggerating a bit.
"Adding more perks that Survivors need to run in order to have a tolerable experience isn't a good feature"
So before I jump to conclusions would you say requiring any perks to have a tolerable experience is a bad thing? So as well as we shouldn't need anti tunnel perks on survivors we shouldn't need any gen regression perks on killer? As long as we're consistent I'm fine with this point. "Tolerable" is also a tough point to balance around as that is extremely subjective and could be stretched very, very far.
"Even if the Survivors somehow teleported to every totem; that's a bare
minimum of seventy seconds. That's not accounting for travel time,
looking for the totem or…you know, THE KILLER"Split among four survivors. We get less than that currently from 1 gen perk on killer…of which he'd be down at least one gen perk…negating this whole extra time point.
"MMR absolutely does not work. The current Survivor experience proves it,
as does the Killer experience. It's set up based off of speed, not fair
matches and we know this for a fact."No it does not. Whatsoever. This is like saying the old rank system didn't show skill. Yes many rank 1's back then were bad and it represents time more than anything, but in general most rank 1's played better than lower ranks. Exceptions don't disprove a general rule. Pretty sure I remember us disagreeing on this many times back then.
"Name something. "
So with these examples you're conflating two different points. Yours was about "free value from the threat of something". Yet here you are listing all things that provide "free value from the threat of something", while being okay with some and not with others.
This means your issue really has nothing to do with free value from the threat of something. Your actual issue is with the value they provide. AKA just whether you thought they were balanced or not.
So if you want to drop that point from the issue with my change being "free value from the threat of something", that's fine. You just think it doesn't sound balanced is all, it has nothing to do with free value.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691412#Comment_3691412
You literally said, "survivors have extra time" and that was that. You can't prove it and the burden of proof lies with you.
As for your points....
They're essentially replacing Corrupt with something stronger. Survivors HAVE to cleanse every totem. That's not somehow better for them.
MMR doesn't work. This is gonna kill regular Survivors OFTEN. It will feel terrible to play against and be far too strong for them as is.
One thing being bad doesn't excuse another and certainly not on this level. This is beyond even original 2017 DS levels of threat. This is, "If you don't spend four minutes cleansing totems you will get insta-killed by my Devour."
"You literally said, "survivors have extra time" and that was that. You can't prove it and the burden of proof lies with you."
And you literally just said "survivors don't have extra time". How's that anything different? Provide the proof.
If you really want to go into numbers in the game we can, but that's a large conversation. If you add up chase times, pick up times, walk and hook times vs gen times the comparison between each sides objectives in terms of time is not even close. While the exact numbers can vary as we would be making approximations and averages, the general difference in times as far as conclusion is objective.
"They're essentially replacing Corrupt with something stronger. Survivors
HAVE to cleanse every totem. That's not somehow better for them.""HAVE" to cleanse every totem is wrong. You are stating the WORST case scenario. They could get the hex on the first totem and now the killer wasted a perk slot for basically nothing, that's awful in the other direction. HIGH RISK/HIGH REWARD. That's their point. Also, finding and clearing all the totems is extremely easy with all the totem finding perks (one of which is a common perk for everyone btw) and maps if they want to go that route.
You are also basing your entire argument on DH. Let's say this change also brought a change to DH since you're going to the extreme scenarios. DH is an exception to how it would be strengthened in this scenario compared to others. Taking DH out of the equation the others are not having issues like that.
"MMR doesn't work"
We can say MMR is heavily flawed and does give you potatoes every now and then but to say it doesn't work at all is just factually untrue. "Generally speaking" it does work. Exceptions don't disprove a generality.
"This is gonna kill regular Survivors OFTEN. It will feel terrible to play against and be far too strong for them as is. "
MMR adjusts them to where they would not be losing more than they are now. Also, as I already mentioned multiple times, there are multiple totem finding perks and maps.
"One thing being bad doesn't excuse another and certainly not on this
level. This is beyond even original 2017 DS levels of threat. This is,
"If you don't spend four minutes cleansing totems you will get
insta-killed by my Devour.""Common…4 minutes..seriously? You know as well as I do it's not taking 4 survivors 4 minutes to cleanse 5 totems, and again that is the worst case scenario, not how many they would realistically be cleansing. Let's say DH gets reworked as well so we can move that to the side and focus on the points. I also don't think one bad excuses another, but you have generally in the past been completely fine with those other examples, that's why it's relevant here. That would be a double standard. If you thought they were both issues then yes I would agree it's not worth bringing up.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/409927/fixing-hex-totems
Personally i think they should make hexes work off of tokens. So, when a match starts, if a hex is in play ALL totems become hex totems, and then each hex's power is equal to the number of totems remaining. Similar to Thrill of the hunt for example.
Then i would rework "undying" to make the hex literally "undying" I.E. the hex always stays active as if 1 totem was remaining even if there are no totems remaining.
I like the idea. The only rough part is that then we'd have to give ALL hex perks different token levels of strength which sounds like a lot of work and kind of a mess since some of their effects are easier or harder to have multiple levels of strength for.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691384#Comment_3691384
If you're just going to insist your right, why even post?
I'm trying to point out issues and it feels like you're just saying, "Nu uh"
"If you're just going to insist your right, why even post?"
I never just insisted I was right, you just didn't have an answer to my points. Those aren't synonymous.
"I'm trying to point out issues and it feels like you're just saying, "Nu uh""
I gave actual responses to all your points. You've basically just said "survivors don't have time", that's basically a "Nu uh" answer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691117#Comment_3691117
You aren't proposing anything to mitigate the time lost by Survivors.
This is going to absolutely murder the casual players whilst providing free value for Killers by simply having the THREAT of a Hex.
"You aren't proposing anything to mitigate the time lost by Survivors. "
I have. They're running less gen slow down perks if they're running hex perks. On top of that I'd argue survivors have too much time at the moment anyway, even if I hadn't proposed anything.
"This is going to absolutely murder the casual players whilst providing
free value for Killers by simply having the THREAT of a Hex."MMR adjusts for casual players. If they lose more mmr will adjust them until they're winning/losing the exact same amount.
"free value for Killers by simply having the THREAT"
You realize the amount of survivor perks that exist giving survivors value by the THREAT of their existence right? This isn't new. It already exists.
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691297#Comment_3691297
Two gens spawn in one of the wings of the map which easily creates 3 gens and 90%of the pallets is unsafe. Killers also can just body block door ways to prevent saving a person on hook in some areas.
You can also have a 3 gen on opposite sides that are basically an auto loss. Those 3 gens are on different floors, not nearly as easy to defend as you make it sound. Yes, lots of unsafe pallets, but there's also quite a few god pallets and very strong loops with windows you aren't mentioning.
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691267#Comment_3691267
Well RPD was my favorite map (resident evil veteran that played everyone of them)and bvhr gutted it to a mess and more of=killer sided map(as alot of maps has been of lately). I am hoping the same happen to midwitch, where it feels abit more survivors sided. It is already killer sided enough so I can see why killers like it.
Survivors now when they bring it really annoys me more than the killer brining it, cause at least with killer I can assume what we are most likely to get since some killers are a real throne compared to others there. Survivor brining now I just be like ????. Also its is the only map literally that spawns the two exit gates close to each other which is stupidly annoying.😑
The vast majority of maps are survivor sided, so I'm not sure where you're getting that. I don't think RPD is killer sided in the way you think it is either.
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Um my favorite map on both sides. Please don't change.
Other than the notorious bad hook spawns anyway.
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Looks like Weskers knife to me.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691066#Comment_3691066
I think if they were to do this they should only show them in post game lobby. This would only make lobby dodging worse in my opinion, something that already screws with matchmaking enough as is.
I'd be fine with that and swf being shown in post game lobby.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691011#Comment_3691011
And once again, that's one perk.
Devour, Pain Res, Pop and Grim. Have fun, I sure won't.
The idea you came up with is not the right one, but you are on the right track.
Literally equip one totem finding perk out of the myriad available or a map. You make this sound so difficult and overbearing when it's not. Survivors have the extra time. These kind of complaints are why secondary objectives are never going to happen.
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@Xyvielia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691062#Comment_3691062
Well, I mean they can if they really wanna run 2 hex 2 Gen perks. Then it’s entirely plausible and valid a argument.
Realistically tho, regardless if Killer is running Hex perks in their build at all, it would most likely (majoritively speaking, as the current meta consists of) would be Gen slow perks in the Killer’s arsenal. So Survivors would be at a disadvantage if they had to spend extra precious time hunting down totems to Bless since the “new” RNG would be spawning totems in random harder to find locations.
Also, Killers don’t have to Curse their Hexes, they’re pre-cursed for them by the entity. So they aren’t having to locate harder to find totems unless there happens to be a Boon, although they’re at the bottom of the perk popularity list… Hexes, not so much.
besides the point, I know, but Snuffing out a boon is nearly instantaneous, as opposed to a Survivor’s Hex cleanse time, not to mention if ToTH’s in play… just saying, the timeframes of hinderance to each side greatly favors the Killer anyway, as Survivors are needing to waste precious time they really don’t have.
"Well, I mean they can if they really wanna run 2 hex 2 Gen perks. Then it’s entirely plausible and valid a argument."
But then that's not an issue since we're not stacking regression. This is taking up perk slots where they'd be throwing 2 more gen slow down perks on.
"Also, Killers don’t have to Curse their Hexes, they’re pre-cursed for them by the entity."
They don't have to do this because they're mostly already all so weak they don't need this extra hindrance. Killers time is also x4 to survivors. Meaning each second a killer uses is 3 or 4 seconds given to the survivor, it's not a 1 to 1 ratio. So everything the survivor have/do needs to take longer to make them "equal" in time.
"besides the point, I know, but Snuffing out a boon is nearly instantaneous, as opposed to a Survivor’s Hex cleanse time"
As mentioned above that's not really a relevant point given the time differences I talked about. When you compare the survivors walk time + bless time to the killers walk time + snuff time x3 or 4 since that time is given to the other survivors as well, it is actually more time consuming for the killer, not the survivor blessing.
"Realistically tho, regardless if Killer is running Hex perks in their
build at all, it would most likely (majoritively speaking, as the
current meta consists of) would be Gen slow perks in the Killer’s
arsenal. So Survivors would be at a disadvantage if they had to spend
extra precious time hunting down totems to Bless since the “new” RNG
would be spawning totems in random harder to find locations."This was already mostly answered above. 2 gen slow downs and 2 hexes is not going to be more time wasting than what we have now which is 4 gen slow downs. This is simply giving more variety in the meta.
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@Mr_K said:
If SMBB worked correctly everyone in the lobby should be the same making that pointless.
So you would say it's pointless that nearly every other game with MMR shows this as well? Does it just not make sense on all them as well? A lot of them do it for it being pointless.
You can have people in "similar" mmr ranges while still having it work. Hence a League game for example that has gold and silver ranks in the match, but their mmr works.
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@Xyvielia said:
It’s true, with the current Gen regression meta, Survivors really don’t have extra time to go seek out totems to cleanse.
Also, factoring in Boons to the equation (Yes, some players still use them, and since they are still in game, we can’t just overlook their existence), it’s only fair that if totems were to spawn in less conspicuous locations to make Hexes not as easily locateable benefiting Killers, it wouldn’t really be fair to Survivors who then have to spend even extra time they don’t already have looking for totems that are harder to find just to Bless them; especially considering that Killers can hear boons chiming slightly easier than Survivors can hear Hexes crackling.
Well they can't run both regression and hex perks. So if they were having to find hex totems the killer isn't stacking regression. So I don't see this as an issue.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690932#Comment_3690932
No, I'm talking about the majority of the playerbase.
You don't have time to hunt down, potentially, five totems whilst the Killer is either tunneling or stacking slowdowns.
To even say otherwise is nuts. Even at high skill matches, it's going to be INSANE if you don't know what totem you need to cleanse. Could you imagine Devour Hope in that sort of lobby? You'd have to assume it's in every match because as soon as you figure it out the match is already over.
That is absolutely not the majority.
To say hunt 5 totems while the killer is stacking slow downs is extremely disingenuous. How are they running totem perks and stacking slow down? They aren't. You don't get both. Also how do we immediately jump to the worst case scenario of 5 totems? They could be getting it on the first totem.
"To even say otherwise is nuts. Even at high skill matches, it's going to
be INSANE if you don't know what totem you need to cleanse. Could you
imagine Devour Hope in that sort of lobby? You'd have to assume it's in
every match because as soon as you figure it out the match is already
over."You mean like the secondary objective the community has been asking for ages? Literally multiple totem finding perks and items.
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@RaSavage42 said:
I mean… if Totems were hidden better Hexes (and Boons) would be better outright
But some of the effects are bad for what they are worth
Like why does Ruin deactivate apon killing a Survivor… and only doing 100%
Yeah they removed the deactivate part, but it's still trash. 100% is useless. For how weak 100% it is could not even be a hex, just permanent and it wouldn't be too strong, that's how weak 100% is. The fact it's also a hex at 100% is just sad.
They need to just bump it back to 200%, that was balanced.
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690935#Comment_3690935
I figured having the ignition of a hex being tied to the completion of a gen meant that survivors couldn't just ignore their main objective and that they'd have a "hand", so to speak, in activating a hex build for killer. That said, I'd also increase the number of totems on the map too so that survivors just don't ignore gens to cleanse totems to "avoid" hexes or that when a gen pops a random cleansed totem(s) is/are chosen to respawn with the hex, so that if survivors try to be clever and get rid of all the dulls.
I do like your idea of them being active but not lit until first down to avoid slugging. Reminds me of an idea I had for nerfing (but not gutting) NoEd, but that's a topic for a different thread.
Hmm adding extra totems to the base game would be an interesting change. I like that.
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Let's replace it with MMR? They really do need their own version of a bronze, silver, gold, plat ect system to represent your MMR grade and to have a goal to strive for. Realistically based on the old grade system would be a way better way to score this. Doing it by kills is just silly and wouldn't/doesn't make sense.
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@Firellius said:
There's a lot of ways to fix hexes. Ruin just needs to get its regression rate returned to 200%, and needs the 'yeets itself upon a survivor dying' back, for instance.
But there's also more creative ways to go about it. I really like Two Can Play's reignition mechanism for example, so…
Hex: Blood Favour, when destroyed, now reignites after you destroy two pallets.
Hex: Face the Darkness re-enables after hooking a survivor twice.
And then there's the option of having hex perks not fully disable, but persist in a weakened state:
Hex: Crowd Control only blocks windows for 5 seconds once the totem is gone.
Hex: Huntress' Lullaby can no longer gain tokens when cleansed, but the effect persists at whatever level of tokens you had.
Hex: Retribution permanently renders whoever cleansed it Oblivious.
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt now simply grants 50% more BP scoring in the Hunter category, regardless of tokens and regardless of whether the totem is still active.
There's ways to shift the risk/reward balance around beyond just 'effect goes up' and I really wish BHVR would get creative with it. Same goes for their design for boons.
I like you're ideas, but only issue with it is that BHVR usually goes for the way simpler answers and I couldn't see them willing to put this much work into adding a minor effect to all the hexes. Seems like a lot of work. I feel like they'd want an answer that takes way less work. That said I do love your ideas if they were willing to do it.
Unless they were wanting to simplify it a lot to make it easier, like just make a blanket reignite effect for them all. Something like, each first hook will re ignite any destroyed totems. So it's the same for them all for ease. This would limit their ability to come back to a max of 4 and that's assuming you had one destroyed before each first hook, so best case scenario. It would be limited by the amount of totems available as well, so you wouldn't really be able to have this work with a full hex build for instance. Of course Pentimento would probably need some changes if this happened too.
I agree on Ruin.
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@BrightWolf said:
I've always been under the belief that Hexes should ignite after the first gen pops or after 60 seconds have passed in the game, that way if you're running a hex build they don't immediately loose value.
I always leave hex totems if I spawn next to them, just so the killer can get some value out of them. Because as a killer main, it's not fun to have your hex cleansed before the game even begins.
So I was considering this option as well. Hexes active but not lit on any totem until the first down? We’d have to do down instead of hook because people would abuse that with slugging. First gen pop would be a good idea as well. This has potential as another option. I might add this to my original post for people to see.
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@Pulsar said:
You'd need to adjust the rest of the game speed as well.
Currently, Survivors don't have time to go totem hunting.
I agree that totems need some changes, but I don't feel that this is the right direction.
Currently survivors have lots of extra time, we can simply look at time ratios between objectives to see that, like they’re not even close. Unless you’re talking about low mmr survivors.
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@appleas said:
Fixing totem placements feels like a lost cause given how chest spawns, killer props, event props on maps of various sizes exist.
The easiest way would probably be making hex totems appear as dulls for a time period. People would probably complain because No One Escapes Death exists though.
Well NOED wouldn’t really matter since its aura showing effect would still be highlighted for survivors. So I don’t see an issue there.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690744#Comment_3690744
i would like to see this as ptb or as one of those event modifiers like Light out. I am very curious to how the game would play out.
I would really like that as well, it would be really great to test. I would anticipate extremely lower kill rates until they buffed killers a lot. Idk about you but in my survivor games I see an extremely large amount of killers that win through tunneling but realistically with how well they were playing would have lost badly if they hadn’t. So I think the tunneling is propping kill stats up a metric ton.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690707#Comment_3690707
a common sentiment that has been around in the game for a long time is that survivor need secondary objectives. Boon are secondary objective for survivor. they give the survivor another objective to do but nobody is bothering to do said secondary objective right now.
all the survivor perk benefit the entire team indirectly. take lithe for example. a survivor pressing lithe and running forward is going extend their chase by some seconds. every second that they extend with the chase is more time given for the team to do gens. Decisive strike when it triggers does benefit one person but the effect that it has is that it extends chase time of that one person giving more time to do gens. the vast majority of perks directly or indirectly benefit the team. Boons are no different in that regard. they cost perk slots just as much as any other individual perk to bring value to the team.
Breaking everything down to they all give value to the team is a bit disingenuous. So what if we made DS give its effect to all survivors if just one person ran it? Both are giving value to the whole team? Hyperbolic but the point is the “amount” of value given to the team per perk slot. There’s a difference between giving the whole team value from one person running it and the whole team getting the perk from one person running it.
Yes secondary objectives would be good for survivors. Calling lighting boom a secondary objective though is like calling following the killer around for head on plays a secondary objective. True, but a stretching of the phrase. Plus as we said, everyone’s not lighting booms, it’s one person.
A true secondary objective would be like if NOED was base kit so people were required to do totems. Or if they added parts you had to apply to a gen.
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I kinda like this idea too. Obviously for it to work we’d have to balance the game around 9 hooks so killers would need significant buffs but given no one could be tunneled out, literally, that seems reasonable.
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@Rick1998 said:
make survivors also loose collision for those 10s after the unhook .
sounds good to me
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690609#Comment_3690609
the killer doesn't need to go out of their way to snuff the boon. perks are not meant to have counter-play on other side. they're meant to be drawback that other side can win against. currently the boon radius is too small for those perks to have any impact on the match. I would like to see them get buffed by +12 meters for a total of 36 meters.
Survivors still need to equip those perks and those perk are competing with second-chance perks.
So if we're working around the assumption we're going to leave it up, you're cool with leaving a 36 meter boon up with them just using it all game? Really?
"Survivors still need to equip those perks and those perk are competing with second-chance perks. "
This would be a valid argument if it wasn't only 1 survivor giving it to the entire team. So yes, I could see the trade off if each survivor was having to run them, but it's only 1 giving up for the entire team and you don't know which one that is to capitalize on it.
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Boons are kind of flawed in concept. They waste more of the killers time to go out of his way to snuff than it's wastes of the survivors time placing it (1 killer second is x3 or 4 seconds to the survivors). So you want the killer to waste time snuffing over and over, rather than snuffing being an "actual" counter play to them.
So yes I'd be down for buffing boons overall, but there would need to be more changes to them as well so that it's less detrimental to the killer snuffing them or much more time wasting for the survivors placing them. I'd personally like if the Shattered Hope effect was base kit for crushing them. Then we can feel free to buff nicely as they're a limited resource and not endless.
People also tend to forgot that it's one perk slot for four people, there is inherently a lot of value in that. By this I mean the perk should be weaker than a perk that does something similar but is only for that survivor since this one is for everyone and one perk slot used instead of each survivor using a slot.