Blueberry
Blueberry
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CoH doesn’t need buffs it isn’t a bad perk.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696092#Comment_3696092
This is so true. I totally get where you are coming from, truly. I hope behavior makes some healthy changes. I don’t feel 3.0 was thought through fully. I feel it was rushed.
We could also go the route of making her anti loop and stealth significantly better to compensate rather than making her condemn play style good again. My issue with this though is that then it’s again making just “another” anti loop killer or another killer with stealth, this isn’t unique. Her condemn play style makes for a unique match experience for both sides, not just another copy/paste of every other killer. This is essentially what happened to Pig.
I didn’t think the tape destruction on hit or slugging was an issue because it was balanced out by the fact of her having limited map mobility, being an m1 with no anti loop, and not getting the jump on anyone because her stealth doesn’t really exist. So “just” getting an m1 hit on people to lose a tape or slug them took high skill in the first place as she has nothing going for her to accomplish this.
The goal of killer design on every chapter should be, “how do we make this killer a unique experience to play as and against”. This is how you make dbd feel like it has different game modes when it doesn’t and prevent people from getting bored. They currently have way, way too many killers that play as and against exactly the same with a different coat of paint. That’s bad design. Many of these reworks are making more killers the same and removing their uniqueness instead of going the other way because people refuse to learn and adapt.
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Yeah poor Sadako got left in the dumpster, she’s so bad right now. I personally think 2.0 version was perfect, it just needed some small tweaks for lower mmr players like showing the tv auras close by to help them find them, that’s it.
If we’re trying to fix this current version though, we can’t be requiring hooks for it to function. This defeats the entire point of the power. A mori is irrelevant if they’re dead on hook anyway. Not wasting time on pick up, walk, hook, is what gave her time efficiency back. Bring back destroying tapes on hit, that gives Sadako some control of her power.
If we’re trying to force hooking, bring back unlimited lock in. So whatever they’re at on one hook is locked in. Also, Ring Drawing needs to be base kit with this. Again destroy tapes on hit too. I still think requiring hooking is counterintuitive to her fundamental condemn design though.
As you already said, people saying her condemn is only for slow down is flawed thinking. If it’s just supposed to be passive slow down in the background then her entire power is a teleport that survivors can control? That’s it?
I say that’s it because her “anti loop” if we wanna call it that is a joke. It does basically nothing for loops. Her “stealth” also isn’t even a real stealth since it has a lullaby. She has nothing else.
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@appleas said:
It's too late for devs to make MMR visible to the general population especially with how matchmaking works to minimize long queue time, people would start posting SS of 3 high MMR players paired with one beginner Claudette or a 50 hour killer versus 4k hour Survivors with offerings and strong items.
I suppose in the past, the intention of hiding it was to prevent elitism when discussing the game. However people are already kind of doing that "You must be low mmr etc" so hiding it kind of defeats the purpose. Devs are damned regardless of whether or not they make MMR visible.
It never had a real purpose in being hidden other than to cover up the problems so people couldn’t point them out. I think the whole “elitism” excuse was just a cover for the real reason. Covering it up to block elitism is just silly and stops nothing.
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I do agree that the whole devotion, rank, mmr is a complete mess. It’s extremely confusing for a new player. Rank and even devotion for that matter currently serve no real purpose other than to confuse people. It’s convoluted and just extra bloat.
I think mmr is bad for the game and I think the grading system and rank for matchmaking was the best system we had. The devotion system took into account much more of what went into the match than just kill or survive.
Mmr only works when a game is generally pretty balanced at the higher end. That is not dbd, at all. It’s balanced as a party game for casuals. Dbd doesn’t know what it wants to be and it’s trying to be both. Either you keep mmr and balance around the higher end or we keep balancing casually and then mmr needs to be removed. People only want to play good vs good when the game is balanced for good vs good. Poor matchmaking is necessary in a game that isn’t balanced for the high end because it helps cover up the problems. This is similar to why we can’t see mmr or swf in the post game lobby right now, it’s only purpose in being hidden is to hide the problems so we can’t point it out.
Remove mmr and match based on rank again in my opinion. That was the best system.
And they seriously need to stop hiding everything from the player base. Hiding mmr/rank and swf is very frustrating. People like to be able to see their rank/mmr as it gives them goals to work towards and makes them play the game more.
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I’ve been tinfoil hat wondering if they’ve been tinkering with it as well. The matches lately have felt ultra sweaty. Many matches against 4 man sweat squads and killers going straight for the tunnel out right at 5 gens. It feels like a palpable difference. Those matches used to just be here and there but now it’s been like back to back multiple.
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I would rather sit in queue than play with bots. I dislike how if I’m playing killer and everyone leaves that I’m forced to play the match out. If survivors leave I should be allowed to leave as well unpenalized. Playing against bots isn’t fun.
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- A very large amount of buffs to bad perks
- Now that we have the gen kick limit most the nerfs to the gen kick perks are unnecessary. Buff them back.
- Post match letting us see swf
- Letting us see at least our own mmr
- Mmr monthly resets
- “Actual” individual killer mmr, not affected by other killers.
- Mmr rank rewards
- Many more map rebalances and shrinks to sizes
- Many killers need addon passes
- Many killers have addons that feel required to play them that need to be built into base kit. Dredge, Knight and Singularity being big offenders of this but there’s many others.
- Background Player rework, it’s unhealthy for the game.
- Buckle Up/For the People nerfed
- End game collapse for the beginning of the game, like a built in Corrupt to slow the start down
- People unhooked given zero collision instead of endurance so they’re even harder to be tunneled and also can’t abuse it to body block
- Base kit mechanic changes that reward killers for not tunneling
- More loops being mind game able when the pallet is thrown and not forced breaks. Many feel like they’re balanced around killers with anti loop and not around the m1 killers.
- Sadako needs significant buffs after her last changes, she’s currently been left in a pitiful state and abandoned.
- Trickster rework has been disliked by most his player base , he needs some improvements.
- Revert the Pig aura box change. It destroyed her macro game play that made her fun.
- Remove the STBFL nerf that makes m2 hits still lose you stacks. You can keep the number nerf but this change killed it on many of the weaker killers that needed it. It wasn’t overtuned.
- Allow customization of colors on auras. Many people have visual disabilities and being able to change the colors would help them.
- Revert the Sloppy nerf, no one asked for or wanted this. Unnecessary. This nerf like stbfl is just making people stack more gen slow down perks instead.
- Daily quest rewards are extremely outdated. Their rewards are so low that they aren’t even worth doing. The rewards on those need to be at least triple their current amount for people to care about them.
- I wish they’d explore more into the creature type of killers and be less stuck on humanoids. Feels like lots of untapped potential.
- Option to turn off the chat filter for ourselves. It’s so annoying.
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It is a terrible perk. It needs buffs
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@Neaxolotl said:
I wonder how can you even know people have explicit malicious intent
Yeah that's kind of my point as well. Even if they wanted to add it to the bannable offenses it would be very hard to enforce because it would be difficult to prove.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695673#Comment_3695673
It could be that I'm actually mistaken (after all, I'm not the owner of the truth), but I have my reasons to believe that this isn't a problem, but anyway, I had said that I had another idea, which would be this one:
Spine chill:
-Buff: the perk activates whenever the killer looks directly at you or when he looks at you through aura reading, killer instinct or when you scream revealing your areaexplaining the idea: The spine chill warns you whenever the killer sees that you are there, the old "spine chill" sometimes warned the surv even without the killer knowing of his presence, with this change, the spine chill will only warn you when the killer is watching the surv
I thought this idea would make the perk still bad, at least it would give information for the survivor to be more attentive when the killer sees you through readings, not affecting killer stealth as much, what do you think of this idea?
I'd be okay with that buff. So current effect and it basically just tells you when the killer is looking at you and you've been "revealed". Sounds fine to me. That doesn't directly counter specific killers and is more countering builds. That's fair.
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@Optx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695648#Comment_3695648
I'd gladly PM my profile if you think I'm just a survivor trying to get slugging nerfed.
That's beyond the point anyhow, seeing as I'm not asking for a nerf but a punishment for players bleeding survivors out with explicit malicious intent. Sure, it isn't particularly common.What would PM'ing your profile show?
"That's beyond the point anyhow, seeing as I'm not asking for a nerf but a
punishment for players bleeding survivors out with explicit malicious
intent. Sure, it isn't particularly common."It is much more reasonable since you're not asking for a nerf to slugging, I agree. I personally wouldn't mind if they did make those scenarios against ToS myself, but they're currently not since they don't break any rules. Would be kind of hard to prove as well. What if he was just like, well I couldn't find them on the ground? It's a bit messy.
How often are you saying you actually see this 4 man slug with being left for everyone to bleed out?
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@AdaEnjoyer2839 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695637#Comment_3695637
I don't know what you propose to fix slugging because it is an issue unfortunately, and I can't think of anything else that would solve the problem other than allowing a survivor to pick themselves back up after a certain amount of time. One person in the comments suggested being able to pick yourself up 60 seconds after you have fully recovered which sounds a bit more fair. Other than that there's no other way to fix slugging since you can't control the way the killer will choose to play. The other issue with the ptb other than the free unbreakable was the insta mori which was the bigger disaster, and that is not what i suggested about the mori either. I just suggested having the **option** to mori the last survivor, meaning you can also hook them or give them the hatch if you would like to.
"I don't know what you propose to fix slugging because it is an issue unfortunately"
Elaborate why you think it's an issue? "Bleed out timers some killers abuse", once in what a couple hundred games? (and that's being generous) That's not an issue. I've got over 10k hours, I play way, way more than the average player, and I rarely ever see this happen.
"One person in the comments suggested being able to pick yourself up 60 seconds after you have fully recovered which sounds a bit more fair"
Saying this sounds a bit more "fair"..that would be absolutely broken. This would be abused to insane amounts. That would be the worst change this game has ever seen. Not exaggerating, like literally..and I've been around since release.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695365#Comment_3695365
You're wrong, anti stealth was never a problem with spine chill, anyone who is experienced can play without it, the problem with spine chill was precisely the fact that it was good in every game, if there wasn't a stealth killer they would take advantage of it with the speed system, players did not use spine chill for anti-stealth, but rather for the fastest window valt combining with resilience
Without the boost bonus, few people will use spine chill, those who use it are those who don't know how to loop, there are many better perks nowadays, and no, I'm not going to create another idea, I've already had other ideas, but I think This already solves the problem that the perk had, which was that there were few reasons not to use it
You're wrong. We also can back this up by knowing that the devs specifically do not want perks to hard counter certain killers, as Spine Chill does with stealth killers. That is part of their balance philosophy. The fact that it hard countered stealth killers goes against their philosophy. While people did combine it with Resilience for vault builds, that wasn't the core problem.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695637#Comment_3695637
The disaster with that PTB was the Mori changes associated with basekit UB. Killers were speedrunning a 4 slug withing the 45s UB timer as it would hard end the match early with a Mori on the final downed Surv. They also deleted Moris from all other sources (Offerings/Devour Hope), and didn't even give the Killer the option to 'Murder or Mercy' to give hatch or Mori them. So people didn't like not being able to Mori when they wanted to.
The basekit UB had little to no complaints that were mathematically sound. (Technically there was 1 Oni main that complained that he couldn't slug all 4 within a single power usage, but the power ends in 17.45s if you downed all 4 Survs from start to finish. That means that Oni had 28s to find and hook the first Surv before that first surv could pick themselves up. On average, you could chain hook every Surv [unless they all hid in the same corner, but then you could simply bleed them out and hit them like whack a mole, or hook them on the 3 hooks available from most map's corners and camp the last].)
If they did a Mori exclusive PTB, and a slower baskit UB exclusive PTB, then the Mori PTB would be lambasted again, and the UB PTB would be net neutral or positive.Totally disagree.
While the instant mori was an issue for what you listed, the base kit UB was absolutely a huge issue that was complained about. It was not received positively or even neutral for that matter. It was unanimously hated and viewed as something that would ruin DBD. If we had a solely UB PTB it would be extremely negative, that is not an exaggeration.
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How often does all survivors getting slugged and left to bleed out actually happen realistically? I've seen this like once in a couple hundred games..if even that. This happens so rarely that it doesn't even feel like a topic worth talking about honestly.
I feel like it's more often used as a guise because people just don't like slugging and want it nerfed. Painting it up as unsportsmanlike game play is a tool to get that. What they really want to say is just that they think slugging is too strong and want it nerfed, but that won't convince people because it's not. Not always, but generally what I feel like I see.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695535#Comment_3695535
his teleport is not very good outside of nightfall. you don't need locks to outplay it. you only care about locks inside nightfall.
While I agree with your principle, locking locks is so inconsequential in time that they would still do it anyway, it’s not costly. However I’m not dead set on this, we could buff nightfall in other ways.
I personally think more of their issues lie in core mechanics and outside of nightfall though. I don’t have as much issue with the nightfall itself.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695517#Comment_3695517
pretty sure that defeats purpose of locking lockers. powers can have drawbacks but if they have drawback, they're suppose really powerful to have a drawback.
It doesn’t defeat the purpose because it’s only during nightfall, which is a smaller portion of the game than not. Locks would still be useful outside nightfall. I agree on your second point.
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Well firstly, those numbers for getting use out of CoH you gave are extremely exaggerated. It would be significantly less than that.
Secondly, comparing those numbers to self care isn’t really accurate. This is because CoH is “one” perk for the entire team and self care would require every single person to run it, aka “four” perk slots. So any boon will “always” have less single person value since it’s for “everyone”.
A final note. The perk is still extremely good. Many swf groups will run it, it’s not uncommon. Now if you want to argue it should be changed to be better for solos and not as good for swf I could see that being a fair argument, but just buffs? No, it would be too strong on swf. Rework? Sure.
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Many of these would be absolutely awful to play as killer. Especially the first one..you’d make every survivor unhookable..none of these sound fun from a killer perspective at all, it looks like pain and suffering.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695519#Comment_3695519
What am I supposed to do when she proxy camps and hits every shot. Her wind up is so fast you can‘t just say run somewhere in time and even if you get somewhere and dodge everything it takes ages until she runs out of ammo.
Proxy camping is an any killer thing, not a huntress thing. If she’s hitting every shot then you need to practice dodging. Huntresses are missing way more shots on me than they’re landing. Use line of sight to your advantage and hug objects
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Huntress is actually extremely loopable. Here’s all you do, greed every single pallet, every single time. If she ever respects for the wind up you get more loops, if she doesn’t, then you just made a 110% killer circle that object so many times for an m1 that she’s losing the game anyway because that was way longer of a chase than she can afford. Win/win. She’s probably the most loopable killer in her tier.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695460#Comment_3695460
i think it is intended. the idea is that you can lock lockers in nightfall and you get 2 second chances because locker typically spawn in pairs.
regardless, i think issue with dredge is that his nightfall doesn't feel strong enough and his teleport is too map dependant. he needs rework for how his nightfall buffs his locker tp in my opinion because like… you can spawn on a map like haddonfield and there is no lockers in the middle of the map. My suggestion would be to make remnant spawns all over the map that have old trapper trap spawn rng during nightfall. Dredge can target these remnants in nightfall to tp. It would him less map dependant without changing anything about the maps themselves.
I would also buff his nightfall however i am not sure what would be a good buff for it. The two ideas that i thought to make nightfall more prevalent is to make nightfall inflict broken for duration of the debuff and to lower nightfall charges from 300 to 250.
He's surely killer that need changes but they first need change Freddy who is a lot worse and Myer's whoses base-kit leaves much to be desired and tends to rely… mori add-on's. Dredge & Nemesis are in the need changes department but other killers are taking their priority.
Maybe just make Dredge during nightfall ignore locks. Make the “bang” of teleporting to lockers silent during nightfall. Also simply more locker placements would help those map issues, like if they just threw a few in the middle of the Haddonfield road next to cars.
As much as I don’t really play much Freddy or Myers I agree they are definitely more deserving of the next changes. They need it the most.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695391#Comment_3695391
-Fix the bug that’s existed since their release of forcing you to always go to the locked locker. Super annoying.
That's not a bug, that's an intended feature. While it is annoying, I understand why it exists, and it would be fair if Dredge was a stronger killer so that consistent counterplay would be important. Sadly, he's not that strong, and everything about his power screws him over.
That’s pretty annoying if it’s intended and not a bug. Feels bad. I agree with your point. He has tons of counter play, just not the strength to justify all of it.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695281#Comment_3695281
I've been memeing around by also dabbling in Forced Hesitation and sometimes Machine Learning. A few times a survivor has spam vaulted at loops like Cowtree thinking I'm a Chess Merchant but I gladly take em on then
"Loop this ya filthy casual! mwahaha!"
Machine Learning is more of a liability but Forced Hesitation is really nice for those quad Background Player lobbies I seem to get at least once a night.
I can see that working lol.
Machine Learning I wanted to work but it’s just so bad. If they made it work on any gen you’ve kicked then it would be totally solid. Only the recent most kicked gen feels like trash.
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Dredge is actually one of my main killers I play a lot. However he only needs a few QoL changes.
-More lockers/better placement. Some maps are so bad because of limited lockers and bad placement of lockers.
-Boat Key and Haddies Calendar need to be base kit. The teleport mid chase is just way, way too slow base kit to where these addons are basically required for this play style and even then it’s too slow if the survivors are good. This is the biggest change they need. As long as these aren’t base kit the other addons don’t matter to me.
-He’s too loud. Survivors can pin his exact location even behind walls. Tone it down. At least during Nightfall.
-Too much info given to survivors on locker teleporting. It’s already so ridiculously slow to exit lockers that the bang of entering them is unnecessary.
-Fix the bug that’s existed since their release of forcing you to always go to the locked locker. Super annoying.
The main reason many people don’t play Dredge is because of the map dependency of how so bad many maps are for lockers and how survivors have such overly easy control of their teleporting power with the lockers. People would find them way more enjoyable if teleporting mid chase for mind games was more viable.
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More high hour killers as well.
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Totally agree. Just allow a multitude of colors options so we can customize.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689016#Comment_3689016
Yes, I'm aware of this, I don't do things without thinking, even I already knew the opposition that some players would have, that's why I added the nerf to reduce the speed of carrying out actions as a counter to the use of the perk, I still believe that my idea won't be a problem for stealth killers because those who will use these perks are survs who don't know how to face these kills, those who know how to play well won't even use the perk because gen rush will be compromised with its use
You don’t need perks to gen rush at all, so whether they run this or not has nothing to do with that.
The core problem with old Spine Chill wasn’t the action speed increase. The core problem was how it hard countered stealth killers. Your change brings back the original problem for its removal in the first place.
If you have another idea to buff it I’m open to that, but I don’t think this is the right change.
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@Destes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695263#Comment_3695263
For me best build for skull merchant is: Pain res,Grim,rapid and dissolution
I toyed around with Dissolution for a while and it’s not bad per se but ultimately felt like it was niche scenarios I got value whereas STBFL instead gave me consistent value. I also liked how stbfl counters the survivors piling in for an end game hook rescue. Rapid feels like an auto lock on her for me, so good. With rapid + stbfl +her haste + their hinder she catches up after a hit SO fast. They don’t expect it. I’ve rewatched people streaming the matches and they’re always like how did she catch up so fast.
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I just ran into this last night on live servers while playing twins and they abused it heavily. Even told me in after chat they used one OTR to body block 4 hits with Victor. Every time one of them was unhooked they follow around their other teammates in pairs to body block and then insta kick Victor. By the time I could resummon Victor and get back to them they had mended and could tank another hit. Rinse and repeat over and over for 80 seconds on every single OTR.
Multiple body blocks from one OTR is a very exploitable bug. I do think this is killswitch worthy with how abusable this is.
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This scenario literally happens all the time. It's the equivalent of the killers leaving the survivors to bleed out, except this happens way, way more often.
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I thought she looked in her 30's. Kinda depends which cosmetic though.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694582#Comment_3694582
First of all, I really appreciate the actual recorded gameplay. It makes it a lot easier to see others perspectives and I know the headaches and effort it takes to do so.
But watching your 12 hour VOD from the other day kind of shows where I think the disagreement can stem from.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6ONFA1X9JH1S/image.png
On the left hand side are the killer games (with gens remaining). On the right are the survivor games. You, personally, escaped twice in your eight games played as a survivor which would be an escape rate of 25%. The team though never won (technically you did leave before the final results but I think its safe to assume in most of those matches) with the best result being a tie between survivors/killers.
In the killer games on the other hand, you did exceedingly well, winning eighteen of the twenty-four matches for a win rate of 75% and a kill rate of 77%.
Now, I know you want to focus on the "how" instead of the raw numbers and I absolutely agree to that to an extent. I'm not arguing for balance changes here. What I'm trying to show is that this reflects my experience and, assumedly, others experiences when loading in to Dead by Daylight. If I play one side and can win 60% or so with confidence and the other is a complete guessing game where my personal skill doesn't seem to matter at all, how can you fault them for feeling the game is tilted toward the more consistent role?Thanks for watching them, I'm actually surprised you spent that much time, unless you jumped to end screens anyway. Either way thanks for collecting. Hope you watched though, the way the match ran is way more important than the end screen. I also tend to say, you'll have heard it a lot in game, that I try to never tunnel or camp and play very fair. It costs me many games I could've won if I had tunneled.
I'd say notice the frustration in games. Winning more killer games, but way more frustration on those games as well. Lost survivor games we're chill and not stressful. Why is that? Well I'm not saying those killer games were perfect obviously, but speaking in generalities, many of those lost games we're still few mistakes and lost through balance problems where I had little agency in changing the outcomes. Meanwhile in the survivor games where we lost a lot, why did we lose? Me or my team played badly. Those matches aren't frustrating because I know it was more our fault and me or my team getting better at the game or making different choices could have changed the outcome, we had agency. Killer lacks agency against higher mmr swf coms groups unless they choose to tunnel.
The game is balanced around survivors playing bad or making mistakes, if they don't you lose. For an inverse perspective, imagine on survivor your outcome was based on how well the killer played? If they didn't make any mistakes you lose regardless of how well your team played, that would feel very bad no? This is essentially how people feel about current Nurse or old Spirit, it's about how good they were not how good you were, which is why everyone was/did complain.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694582#Comment_3694582
If im stuck on winning? thats what this whole post is about that killer is the winning side what else would we be talking about here it dosent matter how you won its a win.
To your second point exactly and all the data that bhvr collects played good or bad indicates that the game is killer sided and they want it to be killer sided.
You doubled back now and said you dont play dbd at high mmy on survivor and had all these things trying to prove to me you know how it is at high mmr as survivor which is it? Now you went from its not about winning. Cant argue with someone who cant admit when they're wrong 🤷♂️. No point in talking about this anymore since its not about winning anymore even though thats what this whole thing is about.
" thats what this whole post is about that killer is the winning side
what else would we be talking about here it dosent matter how you won
its a win."That's flawed thinking. How we win or lose matters way more than if we won or lost. For example, I could lose 70% of my survivor matches and hypothetically not think killer is overpowered or that survivor needs buffs. How? Because it matters why we lost. If most of our losses are from me or my team playing bad then those losses are meaningless because it's our own fault. We have agency because we could have changed those outcomes by getting better at the game.
"To your second point exactly and all the data that bhvr collects played
good or bad indicates that the game is killer sided and they want it to
be killer sided."I'll repeat this for like the 3rd time. "you should not be using this data to draw conclusions"
You need to stop using that data for conclusions when they have said themselves not to. Forget it exists. Them wanting it killer sided, does not mean it is.
"You doubled back now and said you dont play dbd at high mmy on survivor
and had all these things trying to prove to me you know how it is at
high mmr as survivor which is it?"No, it's because you're not understanding what I'm typing. I do play survivor at high mmr as well. Saying I play survivor much worse than killer or that you don't get to the max levels without swf isn't saying I don't play survivor at higher mmr. Those are not synonymous statements as you are taking them.
" Now you went from its not about winning."
It's never been about winning, I never back tracked on this. You are the one that's been obsessed on win rates to this point. I've been trying to convince you of the flaws in that rational this whole time. Thinking about the game in simply terms of if you won or lost, is flawed thinking.
"Cant argue with someone who cant admit when they're wrong"
You haven't told me anything I'm wrong on.
"No point in talking about this anymore since its not about winning anymore even though thats what this whole thing is about."
You don't understand the conversation. This whole time I have been trying to get you to realize that the core way you are viewing the topic itself is flawed and too narrow.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694575#Comment_3694575
You won more then 60% of the games as killer so again it proves killer is the power role and the role that wins more making it killer sided.
Even from the indications of your videos it shows its killer sided.
So at a lower mmr you lose as survivor and at a claimed higher mmr you win as killer. So where is the point in your vods that its not killer sided you were even winning with sub optimal killers at "high mmr" proving my point even more.
Like the old saying goes the proof is in the pudding.
"You won more then 60% of the games as killer so again it proves killer
is the power role and the role that wins more making it killer sided."You are too stuck on "winning". Whether we win or lose is far less important than how we won or lost. Did I win because they made lots of mistakes or because I played well? It matters.
"So at a lower mmr you lose as survivor and at a claimed higher mmr you
win as killer. So where is the point in your vods that its not killer
sided you were even winning with sub optimal killers at "high mmr"
proving my point even more."It's because I'm able to recognize why I lost. If it's because me or my team played bad, that's not a balance issue.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694559#Comment_3694559
Im going through the video its almost no survivor gameplay just skull merchant and some twins and plague you losing all youre survivor matches the survivors have no idea to loop in any of your killer matches which you won almost all and your survivor teammates played terrible in all of the survivor matches. I literally saw nothing that indicates high level gameplay ill keep watching just to see if you do any better but from what I can tell none of this says high level mmr.
This is no indication of my mmr either but ive been matched with crush, skerms, jrm, ayrun on survivor and against oh tofu, stalkyboi, spooknjukes, vulpixia multiple times. They're gameplay is much diffrent then what I just saw. I also used to run scrims.Even with all that i wont claim to be high mmr because i have no idea if i am or not.
The game is balanced around bad teammates. Just how it goes. My survivor mmr is definitely far lower than my killer one as well. I'm above average on survivor but not that great, I'll admit that. The games I'm talking about you'll see more when I'm on killer, that's more the "high mmr" I'm talking about. You only get to those levels on survivor by doing swf and I almost strictly solo queue.
Many of those killer games they knew how to loop, it just looks like they don't when a mind game works.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694539#Comment_3694539
The problem with your logic is its subjective if you think someone is playing well or not. If you are at a very low mmr and see a mid tier player play good you will look at them like they are at a high mmr.
Yes they have lol they literally have said they purposely skew it to be killer sided and want the killer to be the power role.
How is it rude or condescending you claim it high you cant prove that I claim its low I cant prove that.
But since you want to put the claim out there link the vods.
"The problem with your logic is its subjective if you think someone is
playing well or not. If you are at a very low mmr and see a mid tier
player play good you will look at them like they are at a high mmr."True, except I'd say someone with 10k+ hours and in the .0001% of the population to have as good of a gauge as it's going to get.
"Yes they have lol they literally have said they purposely skew it to be killer sided and want the killer to be the power role."
Wanting it to be, and it actually being are two different things. They also balance for the "average" player. Meaning even if they were wanting it killer sided they'd be trying to make it killer sided for the "average" player, not for high mmr or "objectively". Again, different things. This also assuming they understand their game balance well in general.
"How is it rude or condescending you claim it high you cant prove that I claim its low I cant prove that."
That's now what you said. You gave belittling judgement towards me before even seeing anything.
"But since you want to put the claim out there link the vods. "
It's on my profile.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694522#Comment_3694522
You dont play at high mmr prove me wrong you dont know what happens at high mmr prove me wrong. I play at high mmr and im telling you it dosent happen often (see how easy that was). The objective data is the data from the high mmr swf data given by the devs not what you see happen when you see people play on youtube. All the people in my lobbies are all 5k plus does that mena im at high mmr? Because i go out of my way not to even try to escape yet all my team mates are usualy in the 7k+ area. Thats not a metric to use hours dont equal skill i have close to 5k hours now.
"you should not be using this data to draw conclusions"
So even though the devs are actively telling you not to draw conclusions from their data you are refusing since it fits what you already want to believe. You are using data as evidence that you are being told not to use.
" I play at high mmr and im telling you it dosent happen often"
Let's see your vids to prove it then. My stream videos are recorded and available to all.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694504#Comment_3694504
I dont want your vods I want all the peoples games data that play the game (like the devs have) at high mmr you dont even know what mmr you play at also youre only one person you might be terrible at the game for all I know. Thats not data thats one persons experience.
Sure shoot away at why you think its flawed on the kill rate side d/c's letting go on hook? That dosent happen prevently at high mmr making the high mmr swf data the most un-skewed. The problem you have is you go by what you feel and not what the data shows. Close to a hundred thousand people play the game not just you and your vods.
I win 80% of my killer games does that men the killer win rate is 80% now?
Also the fact again that a killer can go on a 1000+ win streak and the top tier comp team in the world can only go on a 200 speaks even more into the game is killer sided. If the game is swf sided why do they lose so easily?
" I want all the peoples games data that play the game"
Pointless data. As I've already gone over with you this would be "average games". Our conversation here is referencing objective data, meaning it has to be data from "good vs good" matches. If you want to argue average matches over objective we can talk about that as well, but these are two different topics.
"you dont even know what mmr you play at also youre only one person you might be terrible at the game for all I know."
No one does. However with enough game experience you can understand what players are good, average or bad. I've got over 10,000 hours in DBD. This gives me a pretty good sample size to know what good or bad players look like. For how little information we are given, that sample size is generally speaking as good as it's going to get. Also as I already referenced you can watch my stream to determine how good of a player you think I am, it's not hidden.
"That dosent happen prevently at high mmr making the high mmr swf data the most un-skewed."
Lol yes, it does. If you played at high mmr you'd know this.
"The problem you have is you go by what you feel and not what the data shows. "
I am a heavily unemotional person. Nothing I am saying here is based on "feelings" at all. It is all based on data collected from many, many high mmr matches. I regularly have comp players in my lobbies and the average hours of people in my lobbies are 3k+ hours for each person. That's how you can tell you're playing at higher mmr.
"Close to a hundred thousand people play the game not just you and your vods."
As I already mentioned earlier, this is two different conversations. Do you want to talk about objective balance or average game balance? This statement is irrelevant if we're talking about objective balance.
"I win 80% of my killer games does that men the killer win rate is 80% now?"
No it doesn't. This is misunderstanding data.
"Also the fact again that a killer can go on a 1000+ win streak"
So you reference that my data is irrelevant because there's hundreds of other people playing the game and not just me, and then continue to reference one player that goes on a streak like that? So one person confirms your point but not mine? Nurse and Blight are exceptions to ALL rules and should not be used for balance of all the other killers, that is just silly. I would nerf both of them. Most the entire killer roster is not doing anything remotely like that.
"the top tier comp team in the world can only go on a 200"
It was actually more than 200. That's the wrong number.
I want the game balanced around skillful play. Not tunneling and camping.
This is why I dislike youtubers that make "win streak" videos as it misrepresents the games balances and confuses people who don't understand the game.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694488#Comment_3694488
How is looking at every single different mmr's data flawed data flawed data is not looking at it by every metric like the nurses kill rate for example. If at the highest mmr the escape rate is still under 50% explain to me how that is not an indicator the game is not killer sided? Without telling me what the community thinks(hate to break it to you but those are feelings).
The devs even said themselves that "you should not be using this data to draw conclusions". As you are literally doing right now. They say this because they understand the data is skewed themselves and does not show the full picture.
We can go over the reasons why kill data is flawed data if you'd like but I'm sure you've already seen it as it has already been brought up on these forums ad nauseam for people trying to draw conclusions from it. You're clinging to this data because it supports what you already want to believe.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694488#Comment_3694488
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694487#Comment_3694487
Please show me the data you collected to prove your point or admit you have no data and are just going based off of what people say and feel.
I have the proof/data in all my vods if you'd like to rewatch them all.
We can also simply compare times for objectives between the sides to see the skew objectively.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694479#Comment_3694479
Except the devs who have all the input in the game unanimously agree the game is killer sided by all metrics and purposely make it that way. How you feel when your playing means nothing and facts dont have feelings. You can feel its one way or another but the data proves what it really is. Its the same reason a full comp swf can barley get a 200 win streak while those are baby numbers in terms of a killer winstreak.
There’s zero “feelings” in my post, I’m referencing all community thoughts or facts. There's many things the devs think that they get wrong or don’t understand in the game, most the community would agree on that. Their data is also extremely flawed for a multitude of reasons. You’re referencing a lot of flawed data that you’re misunderstanding its interpretation.
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I don’t think people are pretending, I think this is more just miscommunication.
Like I think the community at large agrees the game is killer sided at low mmr, balanced on average and survivor sided at high mmr.
The reason people, myself included say it’s survivor sided even though I agree with the above statement, is because we judge objective balance by good vs good. AKA high mmr. Not the average game. This is because we don’t find objective balance when it’s just people playing bad, you need good vs good to remove as many variables altering the data as you can.
So “most” matches or the “average match” is pretty balanced but the game is “objectively” survivor sided. I’d also argue that those coordinated swf try hard groups you’re referencing that make the game extremely unbalanced are very, very common at high mmr. If you don’t believe me the proof is on my streams I do regularly.
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I actually don’t mind them putting recolors there at all, it’s just that the recolors have looked really cheap and bad. So it’s more the quality I feel.
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Could you give some reasons why you think some unhealthy ones are unhealthy?
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Looks like 9.3+ hours per day atm.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693990#Comment_3693990
muti-floors tv's make it so you always push people into TV's because they artificially give you global condemn radius. inserting tapes is more difficult on those maps because survivor have to path around the floors on midwich to insert the tape. She is not trash in that situation. She's trash in all other situations.
Yes those situations help that scenario but it's still so easy to put tapes and hard to punish that I still think she's trash even if it is a "better" scenario.
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We shouldn't take that kill rate as meaning she needs a nerf. I play a lot of SM and the amount of survivors that immediately give up as soon as they see me is astounding. So I see first hand a tremendous amount of data being skewed.