AdaEnjoyer2839
AdaEnjoyer2839
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695771#Comment_3695771
Actually, it can easily take more than 45s if you are going to try to slug everyone at once
Killing a perfectly valid tactics only to stop "abuse" that doesn't even happen for majority of time feels strange
the point is to not allow that 4 man slug attempt to succeed, once again if you can down survivors quickly just hook them and get them out of the trial instead of trying to take all 4 out at once.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695723#Comment_3695723
If it's for "slug for pressure" which is still happening at last two survivors remaining, it's hardly "wasting your time" or anything because this is just a normal gameplay loop that deserves to be preserved
Being unable to hook isn't exactly uncommon, so yeah you can make killer's life impossible with basekit unbreakable, even if it wastes time it's still a free advantage especially when survivors can also just heal them up
And slugging is hardly comparable to facecamp because as long as it's fixable by perks it's not an absolute problem
It's only a "waste of time" when killer gains no advantage over that specific act and ALL survivors have no agency to deal with it, if there is even one survivors standing they have an agency, and if everyone is downed it doesn't makes sense to give them free comeback
if you really see nothing wrong with it you can stick to your opinion because i've given you my points already. if you can see nothing wrong with it and how miserable it feels to play when that happens it's just a matter of different opinions and i can respect that. i compared slugging to facecamping in that way because survivors cant do much about both situations and both can be resolved by bhvr since it's a game mechanic. it really depends on what you mean by slugging for pressure because if survivors are all up in your face then it makes sense to down them, but literally just hook them at that point. I recognize there's no actual reward to hooking since it slows the killer down in a sense, and something could be changed about that. it's a game and games are meant to be fun for both sides. if you're genuinely getting on to make the survivors miserable with that mindset every game and there's a mechanic in the game that you can just freely abuse that should be mentioned. maybe it shouldn't be 60 seconds but 90 or 120, whatever is more healthy for the game. the whole point of this post is to not allow killers to make survivors miserable without a penalty. if the killer is hooking survivors instead of just leaving them on the ground for an eternity then theres no issue to discuss but it's not always the case. i've seen a lot of opinions on this and allowing you to pick yourself back up is the most reasonable one, the only issue is how long it should take.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695713#Comment_3695713
But what is difference between now and then
If everyone is slugged, he is already winning, it's just a matter of wasting survivors time by refuses to hook or actually finish up the game by hooking everyone
I don't get why you think every killers would suddenly decide to slug survivors all, they are already doing that if it's possible
I'd rather stop killers from ruining time altogether, than adding a tools that just reduces strategy and is extremely abusable
yes indeed, but they don't always hook you and in many circumstances you're one of the 2 people the killer will slug just to deny the other person the hatch. if the killer just resorts to slugging it's either a big mistake the survivors made or just the killer being annoying. i dont get how it's so abusable to be able to get yourself up, max 3 times considering the bleed out timer won't be getting removed, and on top of that you'll be wasting your own time if you go down intentionally. 60-84 seconds is enough time for the killer to come back and hook you if not focused on another survivor. i'll just keep comparing it to facecamping because it benefits me in this argument, so if you look at it like this:
does every killer facecamp? no, is there something survivors could do about face camping, maybe 3 man save but other than that no, especially if they got insta down. (so they implemented anti facecamp)
does every killer slug? no, is there something survivors can do to counter it unless they sacrifice their perk slots, no.
you could say unbreakable is a pretty common perk and people run it, but it's still a game flaw. killers cant be entirely blamed for wasting people's time since it's a valid game mechanic and that's on the developers. just bringing a perk to fix that is a bandaid fix and i wouldnt wanna do that.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695702#Comment_3695702
To me, faster game ends with four sacrifice seems lot better because when all 4 survivors are slugged it should counts as win for killers
The only problem you have is killer didn't hook everyone, so it should be done automatically by game without killer interaction
I don't get why you think survivors should have another chance without perks for free
If the game ends the moment everyone's downed every killer who's determined to win is just gonna slug though? I get why u would think its better but you should allow the survivors to be able to do something if the killer decides to ruin their time. "another chance perks" theres literally nothing you can do.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695702#Comment_3695702
To me, faster game ends with four sacrifice seems lot better because when all 4 survivors are slugged it should counts as win for killers
The only problem you have is killer didn't hook everyone, so it should be done automatically by game without killer interaction
I don't get why you think survivors should have another chance without perks for free
at some point the game just ended after all 4 survivors were downed, the point isnt to have another chance, the issue is that there's nothing you can do and the killer decides if they wanna be normal or waste your time. like i mentioned, facecamping was an issue too and you couldn't do anything about it, especially if the killer had instadown. so yes i think there should always be something people can do to deal w not so very nice players :)
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695676#Comment_3695676
"I don't know what you propose to fix slugging because it is an issue unfortunately"
Elaborate why you think it's an issue? "Bleed out timers some killers abuse", once in what a couple hundred games? (and that's being generous) That's not an issue. I've got over 10k hours, I play way, way more than the average player, and I rarely ever see this happen.
"One person in the comments suggested being able to pick yourself up 60 seconds after you have fully recovered which sounds a bit more fair"
Saying this sounds a bit more "fair"..that would be absolutely broken. This would be abused to insane amounts. That would be the worst change this game has ever seen. Not exaggerating, like literally..and I've been around since release.
how would it be bad for the game to actually allow people to play? it's very much fair to allow yourself to get up if the killer is just trying to waste your time. "once in a couple hundred games" is a huge exaggeration since when me and my friends play that happens every 4-5 matches. if you think it's fun to waste peoples time just to get a 4k in an online game i dont know what to tell you.
also the fact i said "fair" because im pretty sure someone would be slugging like that for a reason, whether theyre salty, having a bad day or simply just abusing the power they're given, i dont think someone who slugs often would like a change like that at all.
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you shouldn't have to sacrifice your perk slots to fix a bad game mechanic, that's obvious, especially if you wanna have fun and experiment with more perks. bhvr can fix slugging just like they fixed facecamping with the free self unhook when the killer stands there for too long. sacrificing yourself = getting yourself out of a bad match or dying to let the last survivor get the hatch if theres only 2 of u. it's obvious to me that free unbreakable with certain conditions is the best way to fix this boring mechanic that a lot of killers abuse. there should always be counterplay to things to actually keep the game fun
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695684#Comment_3695684
You have buckle up which is better BT because both will get endurance, and bleedout is 4 minutes which is far longer than hook timer
You can even take for the people for instant heal
i dont think you read my suggestion in the first place so i think trying to explain it is pointless but i'll just try to be kind and let you know that being on hook allows you to either leave the trial by sacrificing yourself or to wait until ur teammates save you so you can keep playing.. 4 man slugs without unbreakable or anything are simply just a waste of time u can do nothing about. u cant use ftp or buckle up on anyone if your whole team is on the ground, and not everyone runs those perks, so i dont get your point
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695676#Comment_3695676
I don't even think slugging is a problem, it's no different from hooking, if anything it's actually better because you won't lose hook state and can freely move around
You must be new to the game if you don't know that there's a bleed out timer that some killers choose to abuse instead of hooking people
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@Blueberry said:
They already tested nearly these exact changes you are proposing on a PTB a long time ago as you said and it was a complete disaster. I know you feel yours is different but it's not.
I don't know what you propose to fix slugging because it is an issue unfortunately, and I can't think of anything else that would solve the problem other than allowing a survivor to pick themselves back up after a certain amount of time. One person in the comments suggested being able to pick yourself up 60 seconds after you have fully recovered which sounds a bit more fair. Other than that there's no other way to fix slugging since you can't control the way the killer will choose to play. The other issue with the ptb other than the free unbreakable was the insta mori which was the bigger disaster, and that is not what i suggested about the mori either. I just suggested having the **option** to mori the last survivor, meaning you can also hook them or give them the hatch if you would like to.