Blueberry
Blueberry
About
- Username
- Blueberry
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718667#Comment_3718667
She was capable of going on 200 win-streaks in original version with iri add-on's and capable of same win-streaks with 0 add-on or perks in 2.0.
I burned 50 gideon+midwich offerings and got 50 win-streak with 3 or 4 condemn kills, not dropping a single game. I have 3 major issues with the current design of Sadako.
The first issue is map dependency. The killer is too strong on double story maps where corralling survivors is easy to condemn. there is almost no counter-play to 18 meter video-copy TV's. On midwich, it is like 33% of the map size while on normal/bigger maps, a single TV teleport is like 8% of the map size.
The second issue is that the killer has no ability to influence the strength of the counter item. The item is too strong on a multitude of maps because it turns off the ability for little to no opportunity cost.
The third issue is that layout of each ability for killer is not evenly distributed in power. Her stealth is mediocre. her anti-loop is non-extent vs good teams. Her condemn is SWF bully bait material. Her TV teleporting is good if it can be used but tapes shut it off on outdoor maps.
An ideal killer power should be
→Fair on all maps
→Equally power in all distribution of power(With add-on to reinforce a particular strength)
→The power should have fair counter-play that the survivor can min-max to nully the effectiveness but the killer should be able to outskill/outplay their counter if they play well.
Sadako fails all fronts.
I agree she is significantly stronger on those indoor maps but I think you exaggerate to what degree. You make it sound completely unfair and almost an auto loss for the survivors. I think it's much harder but still very manageable if they aren't bad. I haven't had issues managing it myself as survivor. I feel like this is like saying how strong stealth killers can be and how long of a win streak you can go on them if you spam indoor map offerings every game that completely alter how weak they normally are. However this said, I'm not opposed to weakening her in this area if in turn we're also fixing her second issue. What would you be suggesting to fix this map issue?
"The second issue is that the killer has no ability to influence the
strength of the counter item. The item is too strong on a multitude of
maps because it turns off the ability for little to no opportunity cost."I agree with this. She has very little control over them removing Condemn and there's no downside for tapes. At the bare minimum I think Ring Drawing should be base kit but I'd personally prefer hits destroying tapes again as it rewards me outplaying them as a basic m1 killer where they have the advantage. They don't even have to return the Condemn gain at destroying it by hit, just make it destroy it so they have to get another. We're you thinking the same as me or did you have a different idea here?
"The third issue is that layout of each ability for killer is not evenly distributed in power."
The vast majority of the killer roster doesn't fit this criteria.
"Her stealth is mediocre. her anti-loop is non-extent vs good teams. Her
condemn is SWF bully bait material. Her TV teleporting is good if it can
be used but tapes shut it off on outdoor maps."I agree.
"An ideal killer power should be
→Fair on all maps
→Equally power in all distribution of power(With add-on to reinforce a particular strength)
→The power should have fair counter-play that the survivor can min-max to
nully the effectiveness but the killer should be able to
outskill/outplay their counter if they play well. "I mean by these standards the majority of killers fail in design. Many killers aren't fair for one side or the other depending on the map. Mostly killers have specialties while being very weak in other areas. very few killers have their powers equally distributed. Many killers have too much counter play with little they can counter in return. I'm not saying your design criteria for a good killer is bad, I'm just saying that the majority of killers fail if these are the aspects we're judging them by so it might not be exactly fair to judge her so harshly by said criteria.
-
@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718673#Comment_3718673
I explained this at the very beginning of the OP.
So at this point I'm assuming you just didn't read anything at all, and are just against change for the sake of never changing anything.
No need to be passive aggressive.
I read your post and the points just didn't justify why she needs a full rework. Your issues are fixable with small tweaks.
-
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718878#Comment_3718878
Doesn’t mean it’s confirmed that there won’t be changes just because they haven’t talked about them yet.
Never said it was, just said it's usually mentioned and wasn't.
-
@Chordyceps said:
It's incredibly unlikely they have nothing planned for reworks. The anniversary stream focuses on more big picture stuff, I'm sure reworks will be discussed closer to their actual release.
They always had mentioned those kind of things in previous anniversary streams.
-
@Quizzy said:
No regress please. Like some ppl like to go for that close 25% gate open, hide then continue the gate when the killer leaves. It at least gives the last survivor a chance when the hatch is closed by the killer. And dont get me started on No Way Out. If a killer has that, your chances to escape via exit gate as the last survivor is basically near 0%.
How about the feature is just deactivated if only 1 survivor remains?
-
I don’t really see the issue with reducing his TR again. Yes if he stacks monitor he can get his TR shorter than his range..and? I think people should just have to literally have their eyes open and looking around for him, not relying on a TR. I just don’t see the issue with a TR shrink.
-
@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717872#Comment_3717872
The idea with this rework is that if you want survivors to build up condemn, you HAVE to pressure them and stop them from returning tapes. This rework gives Sadako a lot of her map pressure back and an actually viable stealth ability.
It is very possible to have matches last longer than seven minutes. Maybe if you actually try to chase people and pressure gens, rather than spamming M2 CTRL M2 CTRL M2 CTRL, you might make the games last a bit longer.
Either way, some of these exact numbers can be adjusted. Even game mechanics can be adjusted. For example, breaking tapes on hit. However, most people felt that was far too oppressive. And it probably is, considering the timer doesn't pause when you are being chased.
Why do you feel her current kit needs this much of a complete rework again rather than just changes to the current design? I think her current design concept is good, it just needs some improvements.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717872#Comment_3717872
This takes Onryos skill ceiling which is quite higher than most people think and puts it on the floor
it is funny because that is what the dev wanted in this 3.0 sadako where the condemn is just an after-thought with little to no depth.
Current Onryo design concept is fine, it doesn’t need a rework, it just needs a few tweaks here and there and an addon pass.
I think the current Onryo design is disastrous bad. I just need to be patient until dev make sadako playable on badham pre-school and less of a free win on Gideons and elementary school.
I do agree that’s the bad direction they were trying to go and how they destroyed pig. I think they accidentally made it not passive on Onryo. Don’t get me wrong, I do think she’s weak and needs improvements, I just do think she’s better than people think. I just went on a 78 game win streak and my stats with her so far in high mmr is only 7 losses out of nearly 250 games. I think that shows there’s at least something there. My point is just that I think her concept is fine, it just needs some tweaks and buffs, not another rework.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718382#Comment_3718382
i am hoping for more perk rework/rehauls.
Same!
-
Yeah I'm hoping Freddy and Myers are next on the list for improvements/reworks.
-
Since it's not for matchmaking I don't think grade reset actually has any impact on how people play at all.
-
Yeah I really think this is an unhealthy change. Sabo is anti fun for killers and encourages them to do very unfun play styles for the survivor. It's already quite strong, I can't imagine buffing it more.
-
@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717981#Comment_3717981
of course you don’t
I mean I could just as easily say of course you do since it benefits you. That wouldn't really add anything constructive to the conversation though. It's also just making it into another us vs them thing when it's not.
-
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717920#Comment_3717920
Unless they're in SWF, I can open a Gate when no other survivor see.
Spread pressure before end game to make them all injured
Then hunt a 0 or 1 hook stage survivor and hook them away from gates.
Chase an injured one to a gate force them to open.
There are a whole strats to pull it off. Not focus on 1 injured on last hook to secure a kill, and leave other remaining survivors to complete the last Gen then have no reason to come back and escape with 1 kill, which seems most killers do.
Why did that Nemesis chased healthy last hook David instead of me being injured with 1 hook in my lasted game? Then the game end with 1 kill. A Deathslinger 2nd hooked me instead of last hook other 2 survivors, and in the attempt to secure, he got 3 kills.
Gate regress doesnt matter when most killers dont play survivor enough to understand survivors' habit. Only focus on how to get a kill. End up getting 1 kill.
"Unless they're in SWF, I can open a Gate when no other survivor see.
Spread pressure before end game to make them all injured
Then hunt a 0 or 1 hook stage survivor and hook them away from gates.
Chase an injured one to a gate force them to open."
This is describing a very low mmr scenario. Give up a free kill and then go find someone and chase them to the door to force it open and then head back to find someone else injured after you let them rescue for free? Like what lol?
"There are a whole strats to pull it off. Not focus on 1 injured on last
hook to secure a kill, and leave other remaining survivors to complete
the last Gen then have no reason to come back and escape with 1 kill,
which seems most killers do."They do it for a reason, because it's the smart play. The scenario you're describing of what they should do, is not the smart play.
"Gate regress doesnt matter when most killers dont play survivor enough to understand survivors' habit. "
You're describing low mmr game play, not killers who don't understand survivor habits. Playing the way you're saying someone should play is what someone who hasn't played much killer would do or if they just didn't care about winning.
-
@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717844#Comment_3717844
yes it does, if if the gate were to regress you need one person to keep the gate from regressing a lot and 2 others to go for the save.
Mandy already said that it was terrible to play against. Told you it was a bad idea
No, you literally just open it. That doesn't require coordination.
Sorry I don't trust their testing.
-
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717843#Comment_3717843
Tips: you can open a gate yourself to end it in 2 minutes.
I do most of the time to trigger Blood warden.
By walking over to the gate and opening it yourself you are forfeiting any end game pressure you just had. IE it's irrelevant at that point.
Also, opening it yourself for Blood Warden is always a bad play. That's the most obvious tell that the killer has Blood Warden if they ever do that. Never something you should be doing if you're running that perk.
-
This takes Onryos skill ceiling which is quite higher than most people think and puts it on the floor. This removes so much skill from Onryo and makes so much of it is just passive. On top of that your timers are so extremely safe that most my matches we’d have the gates powered before even doing a single tape and even one tape drop off is no time at all. So she would now have basically zero map slow down and almost never get a condemn kill either.
Current Onryo design concept is fine, it doesn’t need a rework, it just needs a few tweaks here and there and an addon pass.
-
Those stats are including when she was released with the bug allowing you to remove Victor nearly immediately. That was a massive buff that was unnecessary unintended, so the kill rates you are looking at are artificially higher than she realistically is since they just fixed that bug. So those stats aren’t accurate.
-
Early game collapse was an idea that the devs were working on for slowing down the early game since for many killers they lose 2-3 gens on the first chase since the start of the game is where the killer has the least pressure. They eventually dropped the idea altogether with no word on why.
-
@Archol123 said:
Dunno man, some people just see this in black and white... Everything that does not help my side is purely evil... No matter if it is barely an inconvenience for them but majorly helps the other side.
Literally this. So many people just dislike anything that could be a buff for the other side, it’s such an us vs them mentality.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717575#Comment_3717575
i think that is largely because he counter's pre-running to some extent. he can create risks for survivor between loops which is better than 60% of the killer where you get a near +90% chance to get to the next loop on pallet break. I still think that if your survivor pathing is good enough, you can outplay his bound extremely consistently.
The only way his 1vs1 at pallet loops has any merit is to learn his hug tech however it is extremely tricky to pull off and it is 1-2 frame maneuver. I am not perfect at using it. In my opinion, it is the highest skill tech to pull off in the game. i usually have like success rating of 60% to pull off. so admittedly, my wesker could improve. 99% of killer are likely not going to ever be able to pull the tech off so your average survivor match would result in those tunnel wesker matches. now that it is gone, Wesker on average will not be much of a challenge to escape from.
I’m not disagreeing with you. For all the anti loop problems he has most killers just have it worse.
-
@JeanGreyarea That doesn’t require coordination at all.
-
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717572#Comment_3717572
Make Gate regress, then remove EGC timer. Now this is a good change, you will never see survivor 99% gate.
Devs already said the end game never mean to give either side advantage. Gate regress with EGC timer gives killer advantage.
If you remove the EGC timer then the gate regression is irrelevant. The point should be to put pressure on the end game to end, it currently is not pressured. Since it can be 99’d the end game lasts as long as the survivors want it to.
-
Healing under hook is high risk. If you have We'll Make It it's generally known they should follow you a bit away for the heal.
If you heal under hook and the killer comes back to down the person just unhooked you can't complain about tunneling since that was the risk by doing that.
-
@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717572#Comment_3717572
making the game worse for solo que isn’t the way to go. It’s not pointless because this will effect solo Que and not sweaty swfs.
What is pointless is the idea to implement the gate regression thing since the devs pretty much said it wouldn’t work
It effects swf, saying it doesn't affect swf is incorrect.
The devs have said a lot of things didn't work well that they ended up implementing. You also never answer my point. By your rational anything is bad for solo queue if it buffs killer.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717414#Comment_3717414
i find him only viable at very-top tournament level IF he uses infection to tunnel. Either directly off the hook for the hindered or uses the information infection spray to bounce from Survivor A→Survivor B→Survivor A→B etc. If your not using Infection to tunnel effectively than your losing out on a lot of killer's potency. It is like playing Pig but not using her reverse bear traps.
Wesker's 1vs1 without infection is very under powered. Survivor has too much control over the chase. The reason why his 1vs1 is underpowered is because his 8% hindered carried the killer. He is like S-tier killer when you have -8% infection and B-tier killer when your not fully infected.
First of all, his power as a good power for chases. By the way his collision works, if the survivor knows how to move, that alone makes him a 50/50 power. The survivor can dodge him and Wesker can miss his power, or Wesker can just aim better and hit the survivor. Okay, it has counterplay.
But the thing is, that is not having into account howliterally most of the tiles for looping has rubbish/rocks/trees
everywhere, and they are also not in a straight line, making his power like useless on half the map already, or i could even say 60% of the map. On 60% of the tiles he has no power, and when he has, its just a 50/50 where the survivor can succesfully dodge it.The start up time of the power is also 1.5 seconds, far slower than others similar like Demogorgon (albeit Demo has only one jump, but it is much faster). Which means with Demo or others you can start charging the power when you see the survivor going into a looping tile and hit them. With Weskerand his slow start up time, the survivor has already made it into the
tile.Now, the jumping over pallets and windows part of his power. Do i really need to talk about this…?
Literallymost of the high-mmr Weskers i see playing him, usually they never jumpover a single pallet or window. Literally never, or almost never. The survivor can just stay in most of the loops if they are not too large and jump again over the pallet or the window. I could say on this case that this part of the power is not usable even on 80%-90% pallets or windows of the map.
Wesker needs the "Pig Ambush dash" treatment where they buff all his values.
example:
-Reduced bound charge time from 1.5 to 1.2.
-increased first Virulent Bound dash distance by 1 meter
-Increased second Virulent Bound dash distance by 2 meters.
-Allows Virulent Bound to be used after vaulting a window or a pallet.
Many Survivor say he is balanced because he is easy to loop. Strangely enough, they cry when Wesker hinders them and tunnels to get wins. Then all of sudden, he's not so easy to loop. in any case, I agree with all of your post.
Not disagreeing with you on the tunnel point, but even with his 1v1 issues he's still a better 1v1 killer than 90% of the other killers. Not that that says much though.
-
@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717487#Comment_3717487
all that does is make solo Que worse because they can’t have one person keep the gate from regressing while the other two try and get the save. Plus blood warden becomes better with survivors being forced to open the gate. Plus the timer starts when the survivors don’t want it to. It’s a bad idea
Open the gate yourself If you want the timer to startBy that literally anything is worse for solo queue if it's a killer buff. That's a pointless argument.
Open it yourself is disingenuous. If you waste the time walking over there and doing that you've thrown whatever pressure you had making it pointless.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717497#Comment_3717497
I think if they buff base regression to 150%, then all these perk ruin, oppression and surge will become so much relevant in the meta.
I mean I would rather go that base increase route as well, I just don't know if it will happen.
-
200% was completely fine. They only nerfed it because it was popular, not because it was too strong. Add the stipulation that it turns itself off if anyone dies or even that it doesn't work while close to a hooked survivor.
-
No, it's not.
-
@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717443#Comment_3717443
it’s a bad idea anyway
It's not.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Pretty sure devs tested gate regression before and they said its not a good idea. I kinds agree with it.
To be fair it was only internal testing, nothing we saw.
-
I mean if you're finding Wesker weak or unviable, he's better than like 90% of the other killers lol
-
Sabo'ing was already in a pretty strong spot. This buff is going to be a nightmare and really going in the wrong direction. I don't think they realize how bad of a change this is. There's very little counter play to a sabo with background player. Not a healthy direction for the game at all. This is going to be one of those blatantly bad changes in the PTB that immediately gets reverted. Any player with good experience in the game could tell this is a bad idea just in concept.
-
We need to stop with this nerfing of perks just because they're popular. We should only be nerfing if something is overtuned.
We need to focus on buffing the bad perks instead and widening the variety of viable perks so that we all have more options.
-
Guns and throwable objects?
-
The gen speed problem isn't perk related at all. The perks are fine. It's base game issues.
We need to stop nerfing perks and focus on buffing bad ones.
-
@Mentally_Mechanical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717243#Comment_3717243
That's not what I'm referring to. I mean those situations where you physically are unable to dodge a pounce because Victor is right there. Especially noteworthy where you're injured, since you can't take the little cretin hostage then.
Just give us some way to avoid a pounce that isn't just praying he misses and you're in range to kick, that's all I want.
I understand what you're saying. I'm saying that as long as Victor can be taken hostage as he currently is, extra counter play to Victor is not warranted as they're already significantly hindered by that. Now if they ever remove Victor hostage situations so Twins is actually fun again, then sure I'm totally on board for more Victor counter play.
-
Now that you can take Victor hostage and remove the Twins power for 40 seconds on every injure they don’t need any nerfs at all. They still need the hostage situation fixed.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717064#Comment_3717064
the reload is used because all his other add-on are plagued with drawbacks and poor numerical values. the only having any semblance of value is iri-coin. I think they're only changing him for the 3.0 → 2.7 second change.
I do like coin yeah. I’ll take any buffs he can get but these he’s getting are extremely minor.
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717058#Comment_3717058
As jesterkind has said, its only one element of the game. The strategy element of which perks are chosen is also important.
But if a perk is powerful it should have some other requirement beyond just doing the main game objective. Boons need to be set up, hexes can be cleansed, pain res requires spreading hooks and deciding whether taking the time to travel to a pain res hook is worth it, grim embrace spreading hooks, etc.
So the logic is very far from 'playing bad', but if a perk has a powerful effect there should be risks/consequences to using it.
A perk can be easy to use, that's a strategic trade off, but in turn it should not be that powerful.
I'd argue pop makes you lose pressure and time kicking gens. Kicking gens at base is almost never the right move. The cost by amount of time wasted for every gen you walk to and kick is a high extra cost. It also is giving very little value unless the gen has high progress.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
i find it impressive that they're still not giving deathslinger 24 meter TR for being 110%. Why give all these pointless changes to slinger if your not going to make his power good? Just make 4.6 m/s at this point.
Literally read this right after I posted. Facts lol
-
I think most the community wishes they would just give DS his smaller TR back. He also needs his faster reload addons built into his base kit, they're almost always just auto ran.
-
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716969#Comment_3716969
I agree with Garden of Joy, Game and Springwood.
Eyrie is stil a bit survivor sided but not that bad anymore, and Ormod in my opinion is rather balanced.
I mean the top 2 most used map offerings against me by 4 mans are Eyrie and Ormond. I think that says something.
Ormond especially to me is very unbalanced still. Large map, lots of jungle gyms, and ultra safe main building. Balanced to me would be something like Coal Tower and those two are no where close to the same experience in terms of balance.
-
@crogers271 said:
Easy can mean multiple things. In one sense its easy to walk 20 miles a day in the sense that it doesn't take any particular skill, in another its hard because its not fun and can be painful depending on your physical healthy.
On a different note, if you're struggling to get hooks, why would you have pop in your builds?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717051#Comment_3717051
When it comes down to it, if you play well you get Pop value, if you play bad you don't. That isn't free, it's good design. "just progressing the game and doing what you're supposed to as killer" isn't free.The bigger issue on the 'good design' here is the win harder aspect of a perk like Pop. Getting hooks is the goal, having a reward on top of it shouldn't be necessary (though its kind of baked into the game). It would be like if in soccer/football when a team scored a goal they got to bring an extra player on the field. Getting a sizable reward for what you where supposed to do to win the game, especially when that reward is completely free if you accomplish the thing you were supposed to do, leads to lopsided games.
Then by this logic you think we should instead reward playing bad or just give it free? Since you're not wanting it to be a win more thing.
-
If people thinking getting hooks isn't skillful and is just the game progressing I'd love to hear what criteria they would classify for the killer as requiring skill that can be a metric for a perk activation. If it's not hooks what is? That's about as skillful as it gets, especially in terms of something actually measurable for a perk activation.
Also, this notion of "It's free, you just get it for playing the game". Could literally be applied to like 90% of survivor meta perks as well, so I don't know why this is being used as a point.
When it comes down to it, if you play well you get Pop value, if you play bad you don't. That isn't free, it's good design. "just progressing the game and doing what you're supposed to as killer" isn't free.
-
Now that we have the 3 gen limiter all those kick perks can just be reverted to their previous forms. The nerfs are no longer necessary since we can't hold 3 gens anymore.
-
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716775#Comment_3716775
I would argue there really aren't that many maps that are survivor sided nowadays. I think BHVR has done a great job when it comes to maps.
I do think many have started to get better but there are still many bad ones. Garden, Ormond, Eyrie, Game, Springwood ect.
-
I definitely don't think it's unplayable, I've won there many times on survivor in solo queue.
I think it skews towards killer as much as many, many of the maps do towards survivor currently.
-
All the other options are still terrible, so even if these perks are worse, they're still miles better than 99% of the other perks so everyone's still going to run the same stuff. People are probably just going to run 1 more slow down than they did before and tunnel more often. That's about all this will do.